‘Let’s get fiscal, fiscal — let me hear your lobby talk’
Source: Zfacts.com
Democrats and Republicans agree that we have to address the nation’s long-term fiscal stability. Beyond that point, though, there’s little common ground.
So let’s try to keep this discussion grounded in political reality. Does anybody SERIOUSLY believe that a problem this large can be addressed solely through spending cuts? Raise your hands out there if you believe that …
I do see a few hands raised out there. In fact, looking over to the right, I see quite a few. Well, you’re not taking the problem seriously then. You may claim to believe that this issue threatens the nation’s future, but your actions say otherwise. Forced to choose between fiscal insolvency and tax hikes, you are choosing fiscal insolvency, and to hell with the country.
In the real political world in which votes have to be cast and deals have to be made, you cannot do it solely through spending cuts. The numbers involved are much too large. You would have to go to where the money really is, the major programs from the Pentagon budget to Social Security to Medicare, and the cuts in those programs would have to be so large and so deep as to politically unsustainable. If Republicans actually tried to implement the solution they claim to want, it would be political suicide and they know it.
Now, I’m sure there are a few Democrats in Congress who would like to pretend the opposite, that the budget can be balanced exclusively through tax hikes, particularly on the rich, with no real spending cuts. That position is just as much of a fantasy as its counterpart on the right, the no-new-taxes approach. But the good news is, the relatively few Democrats who take that position do not lead the party. President Obama, Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi, among others, recognize that any solution will have to require both tax increases and spending cuts. When Obama’s bipartisan commission on the budget makes its report to Congress, it is expected to include both approaches.
But the problem is, Obama and the Democrats have no partners on the Republican side. The ongoing purge of any Republican who might think or say something reasonable on the issues of taxes has so terrified the Washington GOP that it has ensured that no negotiation, and no solution, will be possible.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
Take, for example, Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah. Next year he’s scheduled to become ranking minority member of the Senate Finance Committee, which means he will be committee chairman if the Republicans get control of the Senate.
Hatch has watched Republicans back home oust his longtime conservative colleague, Bob Bennett, because Bennett only toed the conservative line 99 times out of 100. He’s scared about his own future, eager to placate the mob back home.
According to The Hill, conservative pressure groups are pushing Hatch to promise that when the budget commission reports, he will rule out any consideration of tax hikes whatsoever.
“We’d like to get a commitment from all Republicans on the Finance panel to oppose new taxes,” said Andrew Roth, vice president for government affairs at the Club for Growth. “It would be political suicide for Orrin Hatch to not do so.”
Hatch says he will not make any commitment to block proposals from Obama’s deficit commission before he has a chance to review specific policy changes.
But Hatch says the Club for Growth can rest assured.
“I like the Club for Growth,” he said. “I don’t make commitments in advance until I see all the facts. I think they can pretty well rely that I don’t believe in increasing taxes at this time. I think we should reduce taxes.”
He thinks we should reduce taxes.
I have my differences with Hatch, but I’ve never thought him to be a stupid man. He knows better than that; he knows that would be disastrous for this country. But he’s doing what he thinks is necessary to save his political career. Some patriot, huh?
Conservatives love to point to the example of Greece, warning that the United States could end up in that position unless we change our ways. They conveniently forget that Greece’s problems have two major components. Yes, their social programs became too generous and their public bureaucracies too fat and lazy. But the Greeks also refused to tax themselves at a reasonable level, pretending they could get all these benefits for free. With collapse staring them in the face, they are being forced to slash government spending AND get serious about improving the revenue side of the ledger.
Anybody who complains about the debt but goes onto to oppose any tax increase — or to advocate further tax cuts — is a hypocrite more devoted to a precious political theory than to the country they claim to love.
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399 comments Add your comment
Moderate Line
May 28th, 2010
11:35 am
Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:06 am
In my post, I didn’t want to get into who caused this problem, because my intent was to focus on how to resolve it.
But those who try to blame it exclusively or even largely on the left have no factual basis for that effort, as the chart above documents quite well.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I would not blame the left exclusively or largely but they are as culpable as the right. If you look at outlays vs receipts of for the federal government you will see to problems since Clinton left office.
Outlays as predicted for 2015 are 4.7% higher. Receipts are down 1.7% from Clintons era.
Under Bush the Receipts were down 3.1% if you take into account the recession it was still down 2.1%. Oulays went up 3.1% even if you take the recession out they were 2.1%.
Receipts under Obama are only expected to go up .4% from prerecession while outlays are expected to be up 3.3% from pre recession
You can blame the debt on both Bush, Obama and their fellow Rep and Dem.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/
Kamchak
May 28th, 2010
11:35 am
USinUK
I heard something about some little get-together in South Africa—not gonna be the global sensation it’s hyped to be.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
11:36 am
If the Fair Tax was a viable option there would be at least 1 intelligent person backing it.
Boortz, linder, and people with tax-related bumper stickers aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
11:36 am
CJ – “Jay – is it DOA because they know that the media (you) would spin it as a VAT?? ”
now, that’s funny … the GOP is afraid to implement something because of the media …
larry
May 28th, 2010
11:36 am
As younger generations start to realize how the 55+ crowd sold their futures out for Club Med vacations, BMW’s and cheap oil, this country will really start to understand the term “backlash.”
I agree. They are not going to know what hit them. Slowly ,slowly the snake is starting to swallow its own tail.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
“Indeed, there has been no progress at all for the
youngest generation. As a group, they have on average
12 percent less income than their fathers’ generation
at the same age.14 This suggests the up-escalator that
has historically ensured that each generation would do
better than the last may not be working very well.”
http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP%20American%20Dream%20Report.pdf
JF McNamara
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
“Forced to choose between fiscal insolvency and tax hikes, you are choosing fiscal insolvency, and to hell with the country.”
Best Line Ever
HDB
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
Pennsylvanian May 28th, 2010
11:20 am
Problem is…I HAVE…and I printed a copy to find the flaws in the proposal!! What the Fair Tax does is remove progressivity…and shifts the tax burden DOWNWARD……..
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
“Uncompensated Advisory Board positions”
Rahm discussed w/Clinton.
White House…”nothing nefarious.”
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
Kam – 11:35 – I dunno … I’d keep an eye on this newfangled “futboll” thing … I think it could become rather popular …
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:37 am
Good argument, Moderate line. I still think using Canada as an example was sort of an apples to oranges comparison. They don’t have to worry about too much defense spending. They know we will protect them.
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
11:39 am
I agree with Jay here… the Fair Tax is dead on arrival. In fact… it’s never even arrived. Feel free to keep wasting your time talking about it… Anyone working that bill right now? When does it come up for a vote?
C'mon Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:39 am
USinUK –
Remember…the Right gernally has to fight two opponents on most issues…the Left and the media.
The Dems only have to fight one…the Right.
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
11:40 am
“I read the FairTax bill, and the book, and it’s all a bunch of hooey.”
Well, I guess that settles THAT argument! Kinda like when Jay proclaims that the issue of global warming is settled as well.
Pardon me if I don’t take the proclamations of a liberal hack opinion columnist when making my decisions regarding important issues.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:40 am
jewcowboy, you are kind of missing the boat on your argument. Factor in what has happened with CREDIT during this generation. Businesses, consumers, states and the Federal government have been spending more than they take in for the longest time. I am no economist, but common sense would dictate that that way of life is not sustainable.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:41 am
“Remember…the Right gernally has to fight two opponents on most issues…the Left and the media. ”
Plus they have to pull their head’s out of their own @sses, which we all know can be a feat.
HDB
May 28th, 2010
11:41 am
Here’s the fallacy about the Fair Tax:
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html
…and further proof…..
http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml?title=FairTax&src=abop&fwd=1&qpvt=Fair+Tax&q=fair+tax
Nice Guy
May 28th, 2010
11:41 am
HDB – so seem overly concerned about the lower class of folks…the governemtn leaches. Are you one of them? Instead of spending you time figuring out how to get you next buck from the governement…why don’t you try to better yourself and your education?
Kamchak
May 28th, 2010
11:42 am
Remember…the Right gernally[sic] has to fight two opponents on most issues…the Left and the media.
There’s your sign.
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
11:42 am
And back on topic . . .
Cut sending FIRST, so I know you’re serious about reducing the size and scope of government, THEN I’ll support tax increases, which must be increased to pay down the deficits that Congress and past administrations are responsible for.
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
11:43 am
Sorry, cut sPending first . . . (sheepish)
C'mon Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:43 am
Jewcowboy –
Good one, and I’m serious! But facts are facts buddy.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
11:43 am
CJ – 11:39 – yeah – they had SUCH a hard time selling the war … and the media NEVER uses right-wing catch-phrases like “clean coal” or “partial-birth abortion” and the like …
oy.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
11:44 am
I dunno, Dave … I think you may be on to something by cutting sending
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
11:44 am
HDB – Oh, I get it now. You want a ‘Progressive’ tax. I guess that means you wouldn’t support a flat tax, either?
C'mon Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:45 am
Kamchak – sorry for the typo…it seems that I’ve now lost all credibility with you….what a shame..
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:45 am
BMDPD,
“Factor in what has happened with CREDIT during this generation.”
It actually falls in line directly with what I am saying. People in younger generations have been using credit to counter act the income disparity. And yes, it is certainly not sustainable, as many have started to realize. Thus, younger generations will be paying for others’ excesses.
Del
May 28th, 2010
11:46 am
Really laughable to say Obama, Reid and Polosi are for spending cuts. Tax increases are probably going to be a reality and should include ALL income levels. Spending cuts, however, should be implemented first.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:48 am
C’mon Jay,
“But facts are facts buddy.”
Sorry…but “liberal bias” in the media is not a fact.
C'mon Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:48 am
USinUK – you are really starting to show your commited leftists colors!
TaxPayer
May 28th, 2010
11:48 am
Do my eyes deceive me! Why NO! Jay hath uttered, in print, the dreaded word that was never to be uttered, in print, again — FairTax&tm;
Ughhhh! Jay. You have released the Kraken.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
11:49 am
“Income Disparity”. More like these younger generations with their “Instant Gratification” attitudes. New car, boat, PS3, Xbox, mortgaged to the hilt by 28 years old. Too bad, Pay your bills.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:49 am
jewcowboy, conversely, you have to factor in dual income families in which both parents are well educated. They are going to be wealthy and the large number of these families drove home prices up. Compare them to a single income family of even a dual income family in which neither parent is educated. I think this is another contributing factor the the ‘gap’.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:50 am
2012 – Budget – 25% surcharge on everyone 57 years old. And large cuts to Social Security and Medicare. No whining…but we paid for it all these years…because obviously you haven’t.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
11:50 am
Good thing Obama takes off to survey the Gulf the day the Sestak report is released. Just more Obama transparency.
larry
May 28th, 2010
11:51 am
Is the fair tax , flat tax or whatever you want to call it, constitutional? Does it violate the 16th admendment?
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:51 am
Much of it came be blamed on the keep up with the Jones’ mentality.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
11:51 am
“USinUK – you are really starting to show your commited leftists colors!”
and words like “leftist” show your lack of critical thinking skills …
HDB
May 28th, 2010
11:52 am
Nice Guy May 28th, 2010
11:41 am
Excuse me for laughing at you….but not only am I NOT a leech (I AM a taxpayer)…I’m also a VETERAN!! A person with two Masters Degrees…..so I have fulfilled your request for education, haven’t I??
The question I should ask you is this: why don’t YOU care about those who aren’t achieving success??
Pennsylvanian May 28th, 2010
11:44 am
I would be ok with a progressive flat tax……let those who make less that 50K pay 5%; 50 – 150K: 12.5%; 150-350K – 17.5%; 350K – 730K: 25%; 750K – 2M: 31.5% >2M: 39%
Opinion??
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:52 am
Outhouse GoKart,
“More like these younger generations with their “Instant Gratification” attitudes.”
I wonder where they learned that?
Kamchak
May 28th, 2010
11:52 am
…it seems that I’ve now lost all credibility with you…
Nope, you lost me on page one when you revealed yourself to be in the Boortz cult. With your liberal media bias meme, you continue to flog a thirty year old gored ox.
Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:52 am
The FairTax bill had what, 60 or 70 Republican cosponsors? It was at least that many. And the Republicans controlled the House for years.
Yet even with all of those cosponsors, and GOP control, the party leaders wouldn’t even waste one subcommittee meeting on the idea?
The GOP has been playing the FairTaxers for suckers, pure and simple: “Here’s this bright and shiny object, let’s see you guys chase it chase it chase it….” with no intention whatsoever of letting them catch it.
TaxPayer
May 28th, 2010
11:53 am
Oops! That should be FairTax™ or maybe FairTax™
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
11:54 am
BMDPD got it right. All these youngsters take no responsbilty for thier stupid mistakes and self-imposed troubles. Let em sink….
md
May 28th, 2010
11:54 am
“People in younger generations have been using credit to counter act the income disparity. ”
Right…..more like buying the latest and greatest – iphone, ipad, xbox, laptop, etc etc. Today’s generation is clueless about living within their means – they think their “means” is a credit card/account.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:54 am
BMDPD,
“I think this is another contributing factor the the ‘gap’.”
Perhaps if the playing field were level…however…
“Going back to 1820,
per capita gross domestic product in the United States
has grown an average of 52 percent for each generation.
But since 1973, overall median family income has grown
only 0.6 percent per year, a rate that produces a 17 percent
increase in the average family’s income for each
generation. Thus, unless the rate of economic growth increases,
the next generation will experience an improvement
in its standard of living that is only one-third as
large as the historical average for earlier generations.”
http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP%20American%20Dream%20Report.pdf
HDB
May 28th, 2010
11:55 am
Nice Guy May 28th, 2010
11:41 am
BTW….not EVERYONE in the lower economic classes are leeches; many of them are WORKING poor…those that are playing by the rules and attempting to progress via the known pathways towards success!! Don’t you support those endeavors…or is your heart so cold???
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:55 am
HDB, seriously. Sure some of the upper 2M have come from old money and privilige, but many don’t. A lot of these people worked very hard to get where they are. I don’t make that king of money, but I understand how those that do would consider the tax system as punitive.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
11:55 am
I wouldnt know the answer to that question, JC. Does it really matter where they learned it?
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:56 am
kind vice king, sorry.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
11:57 am
Funny….older generation drop $13 TRILLION in debt on younger generations, but it is the younger generation that is fiscally irresponsible.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
11:58 am
jewcowboy, I don’t have a link, but our young sub 30 crowd has more ’stuff’ than their parents did at that age and they used credit to get it.
Jefferson
May 28th, 2010
11:58 am
40% over 250K, 50% over 400k,60% over 500K, 70% over 1m. Cut spending if those rates don’t generate enough revenue.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:01 pm
Outhouse GoKart,
“Does it really matter where they learned it?”
Only if you seek to remedy the problem. To fix a problem you must know of the origin.
The “Greats” and “Boomers” started a cycle of fiscal irresponsibility that they now lay at the feet of the X’s and Y’s. I would suggest looking there.
md
May 28th, 2010
12:01 pm
“Funny….older generation drop $13 TRILLION in debt on younger generations, but it is the younger generation that is fiscally irresponsible.”
I don’t see where anybody said it was one or the other except you. Try both.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:01 pm
jewcowboy, it is funny. But you are talking kind of like a Tea Party person. Most tea party people surveyed said they don’t mind paying taxes. They are more concerned of how the government is spending money hand over foot. Sure it happened when Obama took office, but many (due to their religion or political views) believe he is spending this money on bad programs.
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
12:02 pm
Sorry, Jay, but it’s kinda hard to schedule committee hearings on something that is immediately (and wrongly) demonized by Dems and hack liberal columnists as “INCREASING your taxes by 30%”.
Liberals are the old Catholic Church, demonizing those who try to educate the masses with truth rather than dogma, and FairTax supporters are the new Copernicus’.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:02 pm
BMDPD,
“I don’t have a link, but our young sub 30 crowd has more ’stuff’ than their parents did at that age and they used credit to get it.”
$13T worth?
JF McNamara
May 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
JewCowboy,
I agree totally with what you wrote, but I don’t blame the “Greatest Generation” near as much as the Baby Boomers. The Baby Boomers knew the problems were coming but refused to do anything about them.
Social Security, medicare, and medicaid were all know problems in the early nineties, but the Boomers refused to pay one additional penny to help out. If they’d taken any action in the early nineties, we wouldn’t have the huge problem now. Jimmy Carter tried to get us off oil, and its been a known problem since the 70’s and the boomers stood by and did nothing.
The Boomers should be called “The Most Selfish Generation”. Everything they did, and continue to do centers around preserving their wealth. They are against raising taxes or receiving less benefits even though everyone knows our current predicament is unsustainable. They just want theirs like always. All the Boomers had to do was make small changes to preserve the system that the Greatest Generation set up for them. Instead, they took all the benefits of that system and more and sucked it dry. Thank God their time is passing.
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
HDB – No exemptions? Repeals 16th amendment, replaces federal income tax, SS & Medicare tax, estate taxes, all the same taxes as proposed under Fair Tax? Abolishes the IRS? Supermajority required to raise rates? I’d vote for that.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:04 pm
BMDPD,
“But you are talking kind of like a Tea Party person.”
No…because I also think we should Medicare, Social Security and Defense to the bone. And the majority of the burden should be on the 55+ crowd. They ran up the tab, now it’s time for them to start paying it down.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:04 pm
Like Jay said….Democrats and Republicans agree that we have to address the nation’s long-term fiscal stability. Beyond that point, though, there’s little common ground.
md
May 28th, 2010
12:04 pm
“The “Greats” and “Boomers” started a cycle of fiscal irresponsibility that they now lay at the feet of the X’s and Y’s. I would suggest looking there.”
Sounds like scapegoating, unless the world is full of sheep.
We are all individuals, and control our own actions – we choose everything we do.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:06 pm
JF McNamara,
“The Boomers should be called “The Most Selfish Generation”.”
I am in total agreement. Very salient post. It is interesting, though, that they still refuse to take responsibility…and instead blame younger generations for their spending habits.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
All, unfortunately we are stuck. There is no good solution. Where can we cut? I know a lot of libs will argue defense, but honestly we can’t cut defense right now. We can’t cut social programs because we are in a recession. We can’t raise taxes right now. It will hurt the economy. Any ideas?
HDB
May 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
BMDPD May 28th, 2010
11:55 am
Three things wrong with your analysis, my friend:
1) 39% was the tax rate under the Clinton Administration…and the economy soared to near-full employment…and created a SURPLUS!!!
2) Under Eisenhower, the marginal tax rate on the wealthy was 90%; Kennedy cut that rate in HALF….and still no one complained as loudly as they are now….and the rate is LESS!!
3) Name me an economic period in this nation’s history PRIOR to 2003 that the financing of the nation’s wartime effort did NOT include a tax INCREASE!!!
md
May 28th, 2010
12:08 pm
“They ran up the tab, now it’s time for them to start paying it down.”
And the entire tab was spent on the 55+ crowd??
Hardly.
larry
May 28th, 2010
12:08 pm
all the same taxes as proposed under Fair Tax? Which would be at what rate? 23% 30% ?40%?
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
12:09 pm
well … I’m beginning my 3-day weekend RIGHT NOW … so I’m wishing everyone a great Memorial day weekend!! (ours isn’t until November)
wear sunscreen and don’t forget to hug a vet!
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
12:09 pm
I guess JC. Can only speak from personal experience and have had to address my financial issues myself no matter the cause. The cause which was my issue and no one elses.
Moderate Line
May 28th, 2010
12:10 pm
Jay
May 28th, 2010
11:28 am
I read the FairTax bill, and the book, and it’s all a bunch of hooey.
Even the GOP knows it. For all the years that the Republicans controlled Congress, they didn’t even schedule one subcommittee meeting to discuss the FairTax. Not one. That’s how dead-on-arrival the idea is.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agree!
There is no such thing as a FairTax. All taxes are unfair because the tax is never based on the services provided to you by the government. The closes thing you get to a fair tax is the gasoline tax.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
Outhouse, there is very little personal accountablity anymore. It is much easier to blame someone else.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
The Boomers/Hippies, the most selfish generation? Well Im no fan of hippies…they are more do as I say not as I do…ie John Lennon, David *PUKE* Crosby etc.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
md,
“Sounds like scapegoating, unless the world is full of sheep.
We are all individuals, and control our own actions – we choose everything we do.”
How about “passing the buck”? The Boomer ran up a $13T tab, and now expect Xers and Yers to pay for it. What about that personal responsibility thing?
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
Gore?
HDB
May 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
Pennsylvanian May 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
The Fair Tax WON’T work….but a progressive flat tax would!! Exemptions would include mortgage/taxes on PRIMARY residence only, educaton, medical, and credit card interest. Savings/retirements/401K/pensions would NOT be taxed!! Note my 11:52 for the rates….
md
May 28th, 2010
12:13 pm
“Outhouse, there is very little personal accountablity anymore. It is much easier to blame someone else.”
I was taught that when pointing a finger, there are 3 pointing back at yourself. They must be taught to use the whole hand now.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:14 pm
Outhouse GoKart,
“The Boomers/Hippies, the most selfish generation?”
They sold out their Revolution for a pair of Nike’s….
larry
May 28th, 2010
12:15 pm
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid is taxed only on the first 108,000 of income. Dont raise the rate that is taxed but base it on the first 1 million in income. Since it isnt a needs based system and the middle class as well as millionares enjoy the benefits, why just tax the middle class?
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:15 pm
md,
“And the entire tab was spent on the 55+ crowd??”
Yeah, for the most part it was.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
HDB, I would vote for your tax bill. No exemption of credit card interest. You make a choice to spend with a credit card. Medical should be exempt along with savings and retirement. Also, a flat estate tax would be good too.
jewcowboy
May 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
USinUK,
Have a great weekend!
md
May 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
“How about “passing the buck”? The Boomer ran up a $13T tab, and now expect Xers and Yers to pay for it. What about that personal responsibility thing?”
I’ll ask again – and what % of the 13T was spent just on the 55+ crowd.
It isn’t as simple as you want to make it, for the gov’t spends on all.
Now, if you make everyone under 55 give back whatever they received to the 55+ crowd and then made them pay the bill, I’m betting the bill would be a whole lot lower.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
Well, I’m all for a tax system that goes easy on me and heavier on everybody else. Somebody’s got to pay this debt and it might as well be you.
BMDPD
May 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
larry, the wealthy will get no more Social Security than the poor.
md
May 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
“Yeah, for the most part it was.”
Got a link??
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
HDB @ 12:12 – Hot damn, I’ll go for that. I’ll retire as soon as it is in place. A huge windfall for me. I wouldn’t even care if the IRS stayed around.
Moderate Line
May 28th, 2010
12:19 pm
HDB
May 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
BMDPD May 28th, 2010
11:55 am
3) Name me an economic period in this nation’s history PRIOR to 2003 that the financing of the nation’s wartime effort did NOT include a tax INCREASE!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Evaluate the receipts and outlays during the Vietnam War. Also, a temporary endeveor like a minor war or recession is not really a reason to raise taxes.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/
Jay
May 28th, 2010
12:20 pm
Let me get this straight, Dave R.
When the GOP controlled Congress under the leadership of men such as Tom “the Hammer” DeLay, the Republicans were so intimidated by the minority Democrats that they didn’t even dare schedule a subcommittee meeting out of fear the Dems would criticize them.
OK then….
stands for decibels
May 28th, 2010
12:21 pm
Well, I’m all for a tax system that goes easy on me and heavier on everybody else. Somebody’s got to pay this debt and it might as well be you.
Again, I insist: That Redneck has no Pulitzers is a grave injustice that needs to be addressed.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
12:21 pm
A pair of Nikes….lol. Well those hippies were sellouts for sure, like that David *PUKE* Crosby.
I think its just a case of an individual looking at their finances and making the decision to “dig out” or not. Personally, I accumulated $13K in credit card debt and had to pay it off…which I did. Then it crept back up….slowly butt surely to $4K…
There I was right back in the stinky boat…not nearly as Stinky as before but pretty smelly. Constant vigilence is a must.
stands for decibels
May 28th, 2010
12:22 pm
When the GOP controlled Congress under the leadership of men such as Tom “the Hammer” DeLay, the Republicans were so intimidated by the minority Democrats that they didn’t even dare schedule a subcommittee meeting out of fear the Dems would criticize them.
You left out the mighty hack liberal columnists. Gotta factor them in.
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
12:24 pm
John Brennen…”Do not refer to US Enemies as Jihadists”. More sillyness…A storm in a teacup…
larry
May 28th, 2010
12:26 pm
larry, the wealthy will get no more Social Security than the poor. While that is true , the wealthy pay less of the tax as a percent of their income than the poor and middle class do. Maybe one of the ways to solve the S.S , Medicare , Medicaid problem is to make it more of a needs based system.
@@
May 28th, 2010
12:26 pm
I watched Obama’s first press conference in a year. Everything he said regarding the oil spill was a bunch of hooey. Not knowing about Birnbaum’s (who Salazar appointed) firing? Hooey.
TaxPayer
May 28th, 2010
12:26 pm
FairTax™ supporters are a FairlyWeird™ batch. I suppose they just enjoy being led around by their nose rings.
larry
May 28th, 2010
12:31 pm
I guess the President saying he accepts full responsiblity for the government’s response is a bunch of hooey?
Outhouse GoKart
May 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
A little Glenfiddich 12 on the the rocks…? Why yes!!
Bosch
May 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
jewcowboy!
Welcome back – hope your head is clear and your soul restored.
As to the topic, well, as I’ve written before – everybody wants to talk about reeling in government spending, but only in the areas they don’t like.
AmVet
May 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
Very clever play on words, Jay! (Even though that song was absolutely forgettable.)
Man, that chart sure is damning for those still clinging to the silly notion of post-Eisenhower Republicanism as fiscally responsible.
So if we are in a crisis, similar to the contrived WAR ON TERROR!!!, perhaps we need to consider more BushCorp ‘fixes”. Similar to his “temporarily” suspending habeus corpus, getting the USA on the list of nations that torture and using American corporations to spy on citizens. (for starters)
All so sadly “necessary”.
In that irrational vein and given the gravity of this situation we *must* “temporarily” remove the ban on taxing churches and implement a “temporary” emergency, surcharge corporate tax rate of say, 25%.
There, problem solved…