How Rand Paul’s libertarian streak ran afoul of history
Some of you may remember the famous Jesse Helms ad of 1990 in his race against Democrat Harvey Gantt, a black man. It featured a pair of white hands angrily crumpling up a letter, while the announcer explained that the man had just been informed that he didn’t get a job because a less qualified minority did. (The ad was written and produced by Alex Castellanos, now a regular on CNN).
Until this week, when I ran across the political flyer to the right from the 1964 campaign, I didn’t fully appreciate the rich political heritage behind the Helms ad, or why it drew such a strong reaction. In ‘64, in the wake of the signing of the Civil Rights Act by President Johnson, Barry Goldwater and his advisers had decided that their best chance was to play to white Southern resentment by pitting white against black on economic terms. (To be fair, it was an age-old tactic that southern Democrats had been using at the state and local levels for decades to keep themselves in power.)
The text of the flyer is a little blurry, so let me make it clear:
EMPLOYEES
READ THIS:
Did you know that Lyndon Johnson’s Civil Rights Bill can get you fired from your job and give it to a person of another race? No matter what ability you have to do your job … or how much seniority you have on your job … you can lose your job because of Johnson’s Civil Rights Bill. This is your last chance. Vote to put an end to racial favoritism…vote to protect your job…your family…your home.
EMPLOYERS
READ THIS:
This is your last chance to save your freedom to run your own business as you choose!
As I’ve tried to make clear, I believed Senate candidate Rand Paul when he insisted that his (now-retracted) opposition to the Civil Rights Act was based on strict libertarian principles rather than racism. On a purely intellectual level, you can make a valid if unconvincing argument to that effect. But the strong similarity between that position and the clear appeal to racism in the flyer helps explain why the public reacted so strongly to Paul’s argument, however based in principle it might be. Paul was naive to expect any other reaction.
The flyer is also an artifact of a transition point in U.S. politics. In 1960, in a race that was decided by a razor-thin margin nationwide, Democrat John F. Kennedy defeated Republican Richard M. Nixon in Georgia by the overwhelming margin of 62.5 percent to 37.4 percent. Even Kennedy’s Catholicism couldn’t threaten the South’s strong ties to the Democratic Party. (And yes, Catholicism was still an issue back then in the South. My Virginia-born grandmother, I’m told, was not very happy to be introduced to my father’s Catholic bride-to-be.)
Four years later, after LBJ’s signing of the Civil Rights Act and Goldwater’s embrace of the tactics exemplified by the flyer, everything changed and Georgia voted Republican for the first time ever. Again, it wasn’t even close, with Goldwater pulling 54.1 percent to LBJ’s 45.9 percent. The only other states that Goldwater carried that year — in addition to his native Arizona — were South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, none of which had voted Republican since Reconstruction.
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365 comments Add your comment
Mick
May 27th, 2010
3:07 pm
One can only hope that in another generation or two, we have moved onto more important matters.
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
3:11 pm
What’s in a name.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:12 pm
“OFF TOPIC #1″
Obama dodging question today on Sestak job offer: ” I can assure the public that nothing improper took place.”
Clinton dodging question on Monica Lewinsky: “I did not have sex with that woman ………..”
What did he know and when did he know it ……………?
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
3:12 pm
Didn’t even count the words, but how many words can you type and actually say nothing?
Or at least, say nothing in support of the title of your piece?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:15 pm
“OFF TOPIC #2″
“Obama said that every morning when he’s shaving, his daughter comes in and asks, “Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?”
Ah, …………… no comment.
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Now that we have Scout out of the way.
BMDPD
May 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Jay, thanks for the history lesson.
jt
May 27th, 2010
3:19 pm
“helps explain why the public reacted so strongly to Paul’s argument, however based in principle it might be.”
I believe it was the statist media pundents and the entrenched establishment(left and right) that reacted so “strongly”. No matter how much Maddow and Mathews and Olberidiot hyped it, the public yawned.
I don’t think the public cares about a 40 year old non- issue and I believe the public was happy with Dr. Rands comments. At least the good folks in Kentucky are. And Dr. Rand was correct in everything he said.
Rand/ Judge Napolitano 2012
Scout's Dishonor
May 27th, 2010
3:19 pm
Scout when will you come clean and admit your lie?
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
the announcer explained that the man had just been informed that he didn’t get a job because a less qualified black man did.
Jay, nitpicky point, but I’m almost certain the ad used the term “a minority”, not specifically “a black man.”
I realize the implication was pretty blatantly racial, but even Helms wouldn’t be quite that overt. Not in 1990.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
3:25 pm
Well jt, if Paul was right, why has he reversed his position and become “wrong?”
Particularly if, as you claim, nobody cared the issue anyway?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:26 pm
Taxpayer:
I’iiiiimmmmm baaaack !
Jay:
I don’t know about the “firing” part but I did spend a good portion of my career playing the “quota” game with not only minorities of all types but women as well. I saw many “better qualified” candidates go don’t the tubes so as to be able to have a “representative sample”.
I have never understood why that same rule is not applied to let’s say professional football or basketball ??
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
3:27 pm
“helps explain why the public reacted so strongly to Paul’s argument”
Yet even the most recent Daily Kooks polling shows Rand with the same +3% difference even AFTER his comments of last week.
So who, exactly, is reacting so strongly to his remarks? Maybe it is just the East Coast liberal press?
Jay
May 27th, 2010
3:28 pm
sfd, I’ve checked, you’re right, and i’ll fix it. Thanks.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
3:28 pm
Jay
Two points:
Until this week, when I ran across the political flyer to the right from the 1964 campaign,… (To be fair, it was an age-old tactic that southern Democrats had been using at the state and local levels for decades to keep themselves in power.)
Then be fair and pull up some of them to make this point…there are plenty to be found…
“Even Kennedy’s Catholicism couldn’t threaten the South’s strong ties to the Democratic Party. (And yes, Catholicism was still an issue back then in the South. My Virginia-born grandmother, I’m told, was not very happy to be introduced to my father’s Catholic bride-to-be.)”
Pull up the election returns for 1928…
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:30 pm
Scout’s Dishonor :
You need to keep up better.
I retracted the post I made last night regarding the website that provided the “hand shaking” information. That retraction will remain on the books unless I am able to find evidence that will hold up. My statements about the “tepid response” from the crowd stands.
P.S. I am also researching as to whether the graduation at West Point was opened to the public for the first time in 100 years. That would be interesting “if” true.
Now, do you have a question or something?
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
3:32 pm
so as to that blast from the past, in particular…
This is your last chance. Vote to put an end to racial favoritism…
Boy howdy, I sure am glad conservatives have set aside such blatantly apocalyptic and irresponsible rhetoric in these modern times.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
3:35 pm
Dave R, citing a Daily Kos poll… will wonders never cease.
All I know Dave is that Paul reversed his position, went into hiding and fired his campaign manager. Not the behavior of a man who thinks all is going well.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
3:36 pm
Yeah, stands, just like the Democrat ad a couple of years ago in St Louis that said “If you vote for the Republican, your churches will be burned”.
Both sides are heavy on the rhetoric. Some people can actually see and admit that. Others can’t.
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
3:37 pm
Dang! I always thought of Goldwater as kind of reasonable. Didn’t know this about him. And yeah, sfd, is glad to know that conservatives have toned down the propaganda.
BTW, I liked that Lehrer interview – scribbled you some notes downstairs.
Opus
May 27th, 2010
3:38 pm
Scout,
Thanks for confirming that your a liar.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
3:39 pm
And he was wrong to reverse his position (he should have explained it better), he shouldn’t have backed out of Meet the Press, and he should have fired his campaign manager because he allowed Paul to get into situations he was not ready to handle.
Still wondering who, exactly, has reacted so strongly to Paul’s comments . . .
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
3:39 pm
Scout,
How’s your birther research progressing these days. You must be one busy person.
N-GA
May 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
Scout – Were you at the West Point graduation ceremony? If not, you are relying on the media to accurately report the event. In the case of Fox, they chose to edit out the applause of cadets to President Obama’s speech.
Nothing like having a foreign national (Rupert Murdoch) influence American politics
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
Jay:
I also remember an occasion where we managers in the office (black and white with a black boss) determined that one of our employees (a black female) should not be retained at the end of her one year probationary period. She was a very nice lady but everyone was petrified to ride in a vehicle with her driving. That was just one issue. The boss called headquarters to inform them and was told, “don’t even go down that road.”
She was retained, received a hardship transfer to another office, and was soon killed in her government car when she pulled out in front of another vehicle.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
3:42 pm
Paul, for one, has responded strongly to Paul’s comments.
Fled from ‘em like a scalded dog.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
3:42 pm
And he was wrong to reverse his position (he should have explained it better)
Well it was hard to, what with that mean ol’ Rachel Maddow holding a gun to his head and all.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
Lets be clear here. The black guy looks like a normal, happy American. The white guy looks like your garden variety, ever-enraged, knuckle-dragging Republican. Always getting in fights at work (and at the bar later) and molesting the women.
I’d fire his ass too. (And back then I didn’t have to worry too much about the neanderthal coming back with a .30 – 30…
“…cause I got the right, to love a man who’s stupid, ugly, and white.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HqqrvMQjg
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
Opus : Ah, a personal attack. Expected.
Taxpayer : Oh, I don’t have to do anything. I believe he is a U.S. citizen. I just want to know for sure where he was born. BTW: the newest thing is his social security number which “apparently” starts with the 3 digits indicating it was issued in Connecticut. Others are working on that one also.
We’ll see …………….. and don’t forget “Obamagate” !
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
Mark my words. The Corporalgate scandal is gonna cost the GOP that seat in Pennsylvania…
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
N-GA:
Yes, I was relying on something I read which in all probablility was inaccurate. Don’t know about the applause thing you mentioned except that some “who were there” said it was tepid. What’s more interesting to me is “was” it opened to the public ??
BTW: I have the West Point version of the entire graduation ceremony that I am reviewing this weekend.
Normal
May 27th, 2010
3:48 pm
It’s hard to clap loudly with white gloves on…
Wahoo
May 27th, 2010
3:48 pm
The white guy looks like your garden variety, ever-enraged, knuckle-dragging Republican. Always getting in fights at work (and at the bar later) and molesting the women.
Not that Amvet would stereotype or anything. Sheesh.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:49 pm
AmVet :
Don’t you read the news? Obama said today at the press conference that they would have a statement soon about the whole thing !
Meanwhile ………. they are huddling with their attorneys ……… wanna bet ?
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
3:49 pm
“ever-enraged, knuckle-dragging Republican. Always getting in fights at work (and at the bar later) and molesting the women.”
Oh sh*t. AmVet — your wit amazes me.
Opus
May 27th, 2010
3:50 pm
Scout get back on the meds and maybe you’ll stop “tilting at windmills”
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:50 pm
Normal:
I was referring to all of the thousands in the stands …………..
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
3:51 pm
“Thanks for confirming that your (sic) a liar.”
You know, Opus (and many of the rest of you libs out here on this blog), you really should know the meaning of the word “lie” before you go and accuse someone of doing so. It is an aspect of this whole environment of attack that I have been bothered with.
Everyone knows that I am not and never have been a fan of GWB, especially his spending habits and his invasion of Iraq. My issue has always been with this whole “Bush lied” thing.
A lie is something you say that is false WHEN YOU KNOW IT IS FALSE WHEN YOU SAY IT. Key point capitalized.
You know, some people in this world can make a mistake in judgment, or believe something that someone tells them even if the data is false.
IT DOESN’T MAKE IT A LIE!
Scout has said he now doesn’t believe the information he was given to be true, and is trying to find an independent source for corroboration of his belief. It doesn’t make him a liar.
Same with Bush. Unless you people have found some memo out there that shows the intelligence from multiple sources was either falsified and he knew it, or that he had no evidence and he simply made up a story to invade Iraq, then all he did was make a mistake. A whopper of a mistake to be sure, but a mistake nevertheless.
So can we all just can the talk about lying when we really have no basis in fact for this?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:51 pm
Opus:
LOL !
scrappy
May 27th, 2010
3:51 pm
Scout –
“The Area Number, the first three digits, is assigned by the geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the Area Number represented the office code in which the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant’s mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant, neither prior to 1973, nor since.”
moonbat betty
May 27th, 2010
3:52 pm
oh, I’m so ashamed to have white skin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGVy_XDCd9c
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
3:53 pm
Yeah, stands, just like the Democrat ad a couple of years ago in St Louis that said “If you vote for the Republican, your churches will be burned”.
Well that’s weird. Normally when you enter a phrase like that in Teh Google you get a least a few returns. But I get nothing.
You sure that’s what the ad said? (and you wanna provide some context for this one? Was it the Presidential election? some local council race? what?)
Obviously you’ve a point; boneheaded appeals know no ideological boundary. It’s the “before it’s too late” business, though, that I found rather familiar.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:53 pm
Dave R. :
Thank your sir but as you know liberals don’t believe in “tolerance” ……… the very word they preach.
They can’t debate me very well so they resort to their normal attacks and vitriolic namecalling.
It just goes with the territory.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
3:54 pm
Wahoo, Nice name. Were you named after the town in Nebraska or the elongated fish?
No matter, you’re obviously a deep thinker who sees through sarcasm…
The Republican-lites and Tea Floggers got one helluva road in front of them. For me the most interesting part will be to watch how the Official Neo-Con Party reacts if they ever do start gaining some traction…
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:55 pm
Scrappy:
I hear you. The truth (whatever it is) will eventually come out. Google it if you want to find out more.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 27th, 2010
3:56 pm
Well, they were right then and they’re right now. If you’re White you’re a blight. Everybody wants to hire one of Those People to keep the feds off of their back.
I was reminded of this yesterday. Atlanta is looking for a police chief. So they whittled the long list down to three. One was local and had his picture printed. Black. Then I had to go Goggle the other two. No. 2–Black. No. 3–Black.
How about that? The city looked for the best police chief in the country. And they’re all Black!
I can’t hardly imagine what would of happened if a White City looked nationwide for a police chief and the three best canadates was all White. Why, there’d be a federal lynch mob forming!
So that’s why most of us Rednecks vote Republican. We know who will take us back to the old times. And it ain’t a librul Democrat.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
3:56 pm
sfd, I believe the reference was to a misbegotten radio ad in a Fulton County race. The church burning thing is hyperbole, but general thrust of the ad is accurately reflected in the post.
jt
May 27th, 2010
3:56 pm
Well jt, if Paul was right, why has he reversed his position and become “wrong?”
Particularly if, as you claim, nobody cared the issue anyway?
* Link
* Report this comment
Jay where do you see where Rand Paul reversed his decision?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
3:57 pm
moonbat betty
“oh, I’m so ashamed to have white skin ”
It’s okay. It’s after Easter and before Labour Day…
Scout
May 27th, 2010
3:57 pm
Serious Question:
How many of you out there in managment had to play the “quota” game with hirings and promotions?
Normal
May 27th, 2010
3:59 pm
Checkin’ out. I hope y’all have a great weekend and Memorial Day. I’ll be visiting Dad at the Marietta Cementary off of 41 and Windy Hill.
To every Veteran out there, I salute you and ask you to offer a toast to fallen comarades. While Liberal or Conservative, I think we can agree to ask our Higher Power to watch over our young men and women who are in harms way, and to bring them safely home…
BMDPD
May 27th, 2010
3:59 pm
Oooh, new nickname Uncle Tombama? He did come from a white family with educated parents!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:02 pm
Stands: “In 1998, the Missouri Democratic Party ran pre-election ads on black radio stations warning, “When you don’t vote, you let another church explode… another cross to burn… [and] you let Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start.”
From this site: http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVMartinVoters705.html
Admittedly, a conservative site, but I have heard the radio ad replayed on Hannity every so often. It was real. Sorry I didn’t get the quote exactly right the first time.
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:04 pm
A Lesson of the Gulf Oil Spill: We Are All Connected
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bishop-katharine-jefferts-schori/lessons-from-the-gulf-oil_b_591160.html
Sniff. The head of my religious cult….Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori – she’s alright. She really is.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
4:05 pm
Bosch, just look at him! NOT the right guy to cut off in traffic.
Normal, right back at ya.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:06 pm
First Catholic…
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1928_Electoral_Map.png.
Half Jew boy…
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1964_Electoral_Map.png
Any comments…?
Jay
May 27th, 2010
4:08 pm
Here’s one of many, jt:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100520/pl_ynews/ynews_pl2171
Matilda
May 27th, 2010
4:11 pm
Normal @ 3:59,
Amen.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:12 pm
“When you don’t vote, you let another church explode… another cross to burn… [and] you let Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start.”
Well, as mortifying as it may be to consider, churches have been blown up, crosses have been burnt, and Republicans have cut programs, so while this may not be the most subtle or even responsible GOTV appeal ever,it’s hardly what you’d originally made it out to be.
And it doesn’t surprise me at all Sean Hannity would replay it to get his listeners all inflamed.
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:13 pm
from Jay’s source:
“Paul told Ingraham that it was a “poor political decision” to go on Maddow’s show and declared that he supported both the ban on public discrimination and the ban on private discrimination.”
Ya think?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
4:14 pm
“But as long as the media are so fascinated with the question of why anyone would want to “discuss” certain aspects of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, maybe they should ask Al Gore why his father was one of the leading opponents of the bill.
“Or they could ask Bill Clinton, whose mentor, Sen. William Fulbright, actively supported segregation and also voted against the bill. Or they could talk to the only current member of the Senate to vote against it, Democrat Bob Byrd.
“As with the 1957 and 1960 civil rights acts, it was Republicans who passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act by huge majorities. A distinctly smaller majority of Democrats voted for it.
“In the Senate, for example, 82 percent of Republicans voted for the act, compared with only 66 percent of Democrats. In the House, 80 percent of Republicans supported the law, compared with only 63 percent of Democrats.”
Ann Coulter
Does anyone want to dispute this figures? I only know what I read sometimes. Don’t want to upset Jay or anyone ……………… or be called a “liar”.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:15 pm
stands, please.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:18 pm
stands, please
Is that like “negro, please?” kinda like it.
I only know what I read sometimes.
And then Rachel Maddow holds a gun to your head and forces you to copy/paste what some TeaTard posted in a comments page over at Hotair.
she’s such a meanie! and she’s everywhere!
jt
May 27th, 2010
4:23 pm
Thanks Jay, I have been looking too.
Rand Paul NEVER said that he did not support the CRA. He never said it.
I will donate 72 dollars to the DNC if you can show where he did say it.
Del
May 27th, 2010
4:23 pm
So now the loony left is terrified by Rand Paul entering politics. They fear him just like they do Sarah Palin because who knows he might ignite conservatives and libertarians, take over Congress and kick the village idiot out of office. Poor left wing loons…don’t worry though you can always go to the DailyKos or some other nut roots blog and drink more Kool Aid then y’all can come back here, commiserate with one and other throw rants at the few conservatives who post here, pretending that you’re winning a war. Only in your pathetic little minds.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:24 pm
Well then, stands, back up your claim.
How many churches have been burned by Republicans since 1998.
How many crosses have been burned by Republicans since 1998.
It is just the same fear-mongering you claim Republicans use with big government or national security. Doesn’t make it right unless you have facts to back up the fear-mongering.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:24 pm
Not that I’m exactly echoing AmVet’s… um… immoderate comments @ 3.44 about the FIRED white guy in the flier…
But OMG, really, I’m having flashbacks… get FIRED guy to look just a little less peeved and he’s a dead ringer for the guy on the Schlitz Beer sign that hung outside a seedy joint on the main street of the little Flyover Country town of my youth, a sign that said, in essence, “Hey, dumb redneck! Gotta few bucks in your pocket? you look like this guy? Come get drunk here!”
Honky Talkin'
May 27th, 2010
4:24 pm
To SCOUT: get off your sister…you’re crushing her cigarettes!
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:25 pm
Del,
“So now the loony left is terrified by Rand Paul entering politics. ”
The only thing that scares me are clowns. Just thought I’d let you know.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:25 pm
Well then, stands, back up your claim.
How many churches have been burned by Republicans since 1998.
How many crosses have been burned by Republicans since 1998.
see, that’s what happens when Those People get to vote!
Scout
May 27th, 2010
4:25 pm
stands for decibels :
Is there something you would like to debate? How about my earlier question on the subject of this thread. Have you ever been a manager? Have you ever had to play the “quota” game in hiring or promtions? Maybe you were on the receiving end and got beaten out by a lesser qualified candidate ?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
4:26 pm
Honky Talkin’”
LOL ! What a great line.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:27 pm
The only thing that scares me are clowns.
And this Rand Paul guy?
All I really know about him of late is that his Senate seat was heretofore written off as Safe GOP.
I’m assuming now, perhaps not so much.
Wahoo
May 27th, 2010
4:27 pm
Wahoo, Nice name. Were you named after the town in Nebraska or the elongated fish?
Amvet – indirectly the latter.
Your employment of sarcasm is clear as mud when juxtaposed with the vitriol on this blog, and your own use of terms like Tea-floggers. Food for thought.
jt
May 27th, 2010
4:28 pm
72 dollars to the Democrat/lawyer candidate of your choice JBook.
uhoh
May 27th, 2010
4:28 pm
If you’re trying to tar Paul with the “racist” brush by dredging up this trip-you’ve failed miserably.
Nice try though.
J
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:29 pm
Bosch, clowns are your friends.
Your very special friends . . . under your bed and in your closet kind of friends.
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:29 pm
sfd,
Ya’ know? The guy kind of looks like a clown…..[shudder] — so maybe Del is right, maybe I am scared of Rand Paul entering politics, but not because of him being all politician like – but because he kind of looks like a clown.
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:30 pm
Dave R.,
“Bosch, clowns are your friends.”
No, they are not – they are evil creatures of the underworld sent above to create fear and havoc amongst good humans. And they are creepy as hell.
Dusty
May 27th, 2010
4:30 pm
Attaboy, Bookman, stir the old racial hatred pot. Good for politics. Good for points on blogs. Good for Democrats (as long as it is a Republican sayng the wrong thing.)
You had to go back to Goldwater and dig up something. Couldn’t find anything on Regan Or Bush? Don’t remember outstanding black people in Bush’s Republican cabinet? Condaleeza Rice ring a bell? Yes, those evil white racist Republican presidents who would never consider anyone that wasn’t white!. Pure folderol!
You are loking for a race card and Rand Paul gave you one. You insult everybody with political racial propaganda long practiced by both parties. White politicians get insulted all the time and overcome it. Black politicians do too and they overcome it. Journalists do not want that to happen. No fun!!
Why don’t you get RedNeck to write your column? He’s even better at this hatred thing. He’s even funny on rare occasions. RedNeck the Riveting Reviler coming up at the AJC!!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:31 pm
Well, I hope the Bruin is happy…he’s got the name callers out en force…congrats, my man, you’ve earned your keep today.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:33 pm
Have you ever been a manager? Have you ever had to play the “quota” game in hiring or promtions? Maybe you were on the receiving end and got beaten out by a lesser qualified candidate ?
Yes. No (and I am humoring you by answering this, because it presupposes that a “quota” game exists in the private sector). Never.
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:35 pm
I might remind one and all that Rand Paul, not Jay Bookman, made this an issue with a boneheaded prime-time TeeVee appearance that he had to walk back.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:36 pm
Dusty
Cheap Shot II, wouldn’t you say?
stands for decibels
May 27th, 2010
4:36 pm
anyhow, later, kids. Try not to hire an unqualified minority while I’m away.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
4:38 pm
Wahoo, thanks for the feedback, on my immoderation…
I can see why the libs are petrified of Paul. As was noted earlier they were also scared moose sh_tless of Sister Sarah, and look what she went on to do. (What? Really? Oh yeah.? Nothing?)
Bosch, for you…
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/EPH/8140.jpg
Kamchak
May 27th, 2010
4:38 pm
…and drink more Kool Aid…
I think that “the survival of the fittest,” means to “pick the low hanging fruit,” but only if “you get your foot in the door.” Be sure to “keep your nose to the grindstone,” and don’t “swim with the sharks,” or “try to catch a falling knife.” Adhere to these rules and I guarantee you will “knock the cover off the ball.”
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:38 pm
Yeah, stands. Bookman just keeps it on the front burner because there is nothing god to say about Hope & Change this afternoon.
jt
May 27th, 2010
4:40 pm
I’ll make it an even Franklin.
Del
May 27th, 2010
4:41 pm
Bosch,
I hear you but clowns don’t scare me, I just laugh at them. I never personally attack them just laugh at them all collectively. Now pretenders, impostors and those who personally attack anyone who has a different point of view, they scare me unless of course they’re clowns.
moonbat betty
May 27th, 2010
4:41 pm
If you look closely at the flyer, the 2 gentlemen pictured on the flyer are actually obama and cheney.
N-GA
May 27th, 2010
4:42 pm
Scout – The problem with the “old” southern Democrats is that they were, by-and-large, racists. After the Civil Rights Act passed, the South went to the GOP. That is the continuation of your story. SO there you have it…Southern Republicans with a racist heritage……really!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:42 pm
AmVet: “and look what she went on to do. (What? Really? Oh yeah.? Nothing?)”
Only made more money in one year than you’ve probably made in the last 20, and energized more voters than you’ve ever done in your lifetime. Inspired people to become involved in their government. Governed a state and a city, both of which I’m pretty sure you’ve never done.
I’ll take her performance over yours, ‘kay?
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
4:42 pm
Michael Steele and the boys working on taking back congress and the White house…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
4:43 pm
‘kay, Kay.
Dusty
May 27th, 2010
4:44 pm
Josef,
I haven’t been keeping count. There are so many cheap shots. Which one did you have in mind?
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
4:45 pm
AmVet,
That’s sad – that clown is gonna eat that poor girl and pick his teeth with her bones.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Del,
“and those who personally attack anyone who has a different point of view”
How strange! Because those are the people I collectively laugh at. (and if they happen to be clowns, then, well, that’s a whole other story).
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
4:47 pm
“I haven’t been keeping count. There are so many cheap shots. Which one did you have in mind?”
Dusty, I’m guessing, but it may have been the comment about Redneck writing a better column than Jay.
Funny!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:47 pm
Dusty
Had my first mess of fried green tomatoes off the vine ‘while ago. Rough day at work trying to convince the brown ones that the black ones weren’t being white ones with this new round of “prove it” going on…Unmentionable felt sympathy and plucked the first ones before they got ripe, just for me. Ain’t love grand?
moonbat betty
May 27th, 2010
4:49 pm
When is the uncf and naacp going to change their name?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:50 pm
Dave, Dusty
Nope…the last time this very same type thread with a similar illustration (Lester Maddox) on the same topic (Paul and the CRA fracas) I called it a cheap shot and Dusty agreed…that’s why I wanted to know if this is “Cheap Shot II” (pronounced Sheep Sho Deux for the Jacobins amongst us–STILL)
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
4:51 pm
One last one (I promise) for Bosch
http://www.sciencefictionfantasyhorror.com/images-articles/2005/09/scary-clown-2005.gif
All of those “energized” voters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR3xwTXZhXQ
N-GA
May 27th, 2010
4:52 pm
Dave R. (your 4:42) – The fact that she’s your role model says a lot more about you than anything. I’ve made more in 1 year than she’s earned in her entire lifetime, but that is hardly something to suggest I’m better than she is. But it is hard to really say that she has “earned” that money. It tells me that people are easily entertained by marginally educated entertainers. There are those who might believe that a school teacher does more to earn his/her salary than Palin does to earn hers.
Keep up the good fight!
May 27th, 2010
4:52 pm
Scout, really you should read and get your facts straight….it is no doubt that there were many Republicans who voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Its clear fact. A majority of Dems too although smaller. ….. But as pointed out by Jay’s blog, the Republicans then played to those who feared equal rights and played to the racism and then welcomed with open arms the likes of David Dukes, etc. who switched from Dem to Republican, etc. The issue is NOW. Rand Paul forgets history and the failure of libertarism to correct racism…a nice theory that did not work in practice. Just as today private enterprise in some areas discriminate against gays despite the large number of people that they may offend. Paul’s “ideology” is a important part of the discussion as to how we govern. The fact is that the ideologues espousing “theory” can rarely deal with the reality. There are some things that we as a people do not tolerate. Free speech is permitted but when you received government funds or you partake in commerce between the states it is also the right under the constitution to regulate.
As for your “quotas”, nice antedotes but hardly means that they were representative or were not your interpretation of what was being said. Or that prevailing minds were not trying to overcome the possible prejudice of your decision making if you were a manager etc. There are a thousand reasons and your antedotes are not proof of much except your particular bias.
scott
May 27th, 2010
4:52 pm
im tired of you i was born in georgia and have lived all around the south i am a racist and about every white person i know in the south if you talk to them 1 on 1 is still racist
The Cynical White Boy
May 27th, 2010
4:55 pm
Actually, caucasians may benefit from no longer being “the majority” one day in America. When that day comes, they can follow a well established precedent and immediately file an EEOC claim whenver they are not hired, not promoted or become the objects of so-called “adverse action” in the employment field.
Del
May 27th, 2010
4:56 pm
On people who are scary…John Brennan, he’s scary.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
4:56 pm
In interviews, he was critical of the provisions in CRA that forced businesses to open their doors to black customers. For example, with the Louisville Courier–Journal he said:
Rand Paul: I like the Civil Rights Act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains and I’m all in favor of that.
Questioner: But…?
Rand Paul: (nervous laugh) You had to ask me the “but.” um.. I don’t like the idea of telling private business owners – I abhor racism – I think it’s a bad business decision to ever exclude anybody from your restaurant. But at the same time I do believe in private ownership. But I think there should be absolutely no discrimination on anything that gets any public funding and that’s most of what the Civil Rights Act was about to my mind.
That stance was consistent with Paul’s 2002 letter to the editor to a Bowling Green newspaper, in which he said it was fine for the Fair Housing Act to apply to public housing, but not to private housing (http://pageonekentucky.com/2010/05/20/rand-paul-made-same-racial-comments-in-2002/ ):
” At first glance, who could object to preventing discrimination in housing? Most citizens would agree that it is wrong to deny taxpayer-financed, “public” housing to anyone based on the color of their skin or the number of children in the household.
But the Daily News ignores, as does the Fair Housing Act, the distinction between private and public property. Should it be prohibited for public, taxpayer-financed institutions such as schools to reject someone based on an individual’s beliefs or attributes? Most certainly. Should it be prohibited for private entities such as a church, bed and breakfast or retirement neighborhood that doesn’t want noisy children? Absolutely not.
Decisions concerning private property and associations should in a free society be unhindered. As a consequence, some associations will discriminate.”
However, Paul now says he supports the Civil Rights Act applying both to private and to public institutions. Says the Washington Post (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/05/rand_paul_spox_fed_govt_should.html ):
>em>Asked for further clarification, Jesse Benton, a spokesman for the Paul campaign, confirmed that Paul does in fact think the Federal government should have the power to ban private businesses from commiting racial discrimination. He told me:
“Civil Rights legislation that has been affirmed by our courts gives the Federal government the right to ensure that private businesses don’t discriminate based on race. Dr. Paul supports those powers.”
Clearly, Paul reversed himself on the core question involved here, namely: Does the federal government have the power to end segregation by private industry?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
4:59 pm
“Dave R. (your 4:42) – The fact that she’s your role model says a lot more about you than anything. I’ve made more in 1 year than she’s earned in her entire lifetime, ”
Dusty–
Well, that ought to answer your question from the other night of why he’s here in the much benighted state of Jaw-ja…Capitalist Running Dog of Carpetbag-Scalawag Yankee Imperialist Colonialism…mmm rape and pillage…! Just an observation…
Pogo
May 27th, 2010
5:00 pm
Well, as much as your liberal/progressive mind wants and does believe the flyer wasn’t at least a little accurate Jay, IF you worked in the real world (instead of the protected progressive environs of your little AJC journalistic gig), you might just see that at least some of the content actually proved to be true. For those of us that really do work in todays corporate environment, it is a common occurance where the person that is less qualified is hired or promoted in the name of “diversity” over a person that is more qualified but who does not contribute to the demographic “mix” trying to be obtained (for political reasons). The sad part of it is, when people are hired because of what they are instead of how qualified they are, they know it, the people around them know it and the situation becomes toxic for all parties involved. I don’t know how to fix it but hiring based upon quotas only add disfuntion to an organizaton. Of course, there are those that will take advantage of any situation and that probably sleep quite well knowing that they did not deserve the job but are proud to take advantage of the diversity bit. In fact, I know a person or two who think exactly that way and the pretty much think they are “teflon coated” because of it. And to a degree, they are correct. And no, I have never been overlooked for a promotion for a job because of diversity. But I am in a position that sees it happening and the result is inevitably bad for the person and for the company. Civil rights should be enjoyed by all. Special rights should be enjoyed by none.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
5:02 pm
“The fact that she’s your role model says a lot more about you than anything.”
N-GA, you assume that she is some sort of role model for me. As usual, you fit the breakdown of the word “assume” to a T.
I was pointing out, correctly, that AmVet’s statement that she accomplished (and I quote) “nothing” was incorrect. And it was.
And who the heck are you to determine whether or not someone has “earned” their money or not? How many speeches have you had to give in front of a crowd of a hundred? A thousand? (I have – it ain’t easy) Ten thousand people? Have you had your private life dragged into the tabloid press? Have you governed a state? A city? Do you have to wake up every day and wonder just what attack is going to occur upon you or your family today?
Role model? No. But I DO know that she has earned every stinkin’ penny she’s received since this roller coaster ride began.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
5:02 pm
And to those of you uncomfortable discussing issues about race …. sorry. It’s a topic worthy of discussion, a topic that requires discussion. Most folks here are handling it responsibly, and I appreciate it.
Del
May 27th, 2010
5:02 pm
Bosch,
Here’s a clown song sung by one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwJ5KIcKX4&feature=fvw
Wahoo
May 27th, 2010
5:04 pm
@ Amvet “I can see why the libs are petrified of Paul. As was noted earlier they were also scared moose sh_tless of Sister Sarah, and look what she went on to do. (What? Really? Oh yeah.? Nothing?)”
I never understood the fear of Palin from the left. Her ski helmet doesn’t get appreciably smarter once it is containing her head. Further, IMO she played directly into certain stereotypes that democrats use against republicans.
If I were a democrat, I would be far more concerned with Paul than Palin. You can disagree with him all you want, but I don’t think he’s as easy target as Palin, and I think his libertarian views resonate with a large number of Americans who are fed up with their government.
Personally, I would be appreciative of a body politic that can finally move past race as a motive of virtually everything. I think it is past time to give up racial/gender preferences of all sorts. I don’t think perpetuating racial preferences will make up for past racial sins, nor do I think it fosters a race-neutral society, which, I would hope, is the objective. I’m well beyond ready to move forward to a race-neutral climate – I just wish more people would join me, and reject the leadership of those who garner wealth, power and stature from perpetuating racial divide.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
5:05 pm
josef, did I miss something asked of me previously?
Del
May 27th, 2010
5:05 pm
Sorry try this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwJ5KIcKX4&feature=fvw
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:06 pm
JAY
Discussion of race, you say? Where’s brown? Where’s red? Where’s yellow? You and many of us are so bound in the terms of 1964 that we are totally incpabale of looking at those whose voices are yet to be heard…sorry, but this is as much “living in the past” as my own refusal to move beyond 1865, wouldn’t you say? Same song, different verse.
Dusty
May 27th, 2010
5:07 pm
Josef,
I quit trying to convince anyone long ago that the color wheel has complimentary colors. If they can’t see it, I get a little short on patience. And those who use it to whip up the racial winds are the worst.
But, nevermind, FRIED GREEN TOMATOES? Do you know I have never eaten more than two slices of fried green tomatoes? Not much fried food of any kind.
Love? hmmm Give me fried chicken or it aint luv!!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:07 pm
DAVE
No, it was just your response to Dusty’s response to me on Cheap Shot II.
Keep up the good fight!
May 27th, 2010
5:09 pm
Pogo….again you show your particular bias by claiming that some achieve their jobs because of “diversity”. You do not have a single document which says “this person was hired because of a quota or race” It is your interpretation that they are there for that reason. Others may disagree. Your “common occurrence” claim (just how many jobs with different companies have you held to be able to claim that this is a common occurrence in business) is just more bias opinion.
Dave
May 27th, 2010
5:09 pm
Discrimination? Or Predjudice?
http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/culture/racism/4776-What-Discrimination.html
http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2006/10/04/discrimination,_prejudice_and_preferences
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
5:09 pm
josef, I still thought her comment about Redneck writing a better column than Bookman was funny.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:10 pm
DUSTY
When my fellow liberals finally bring me before the Inquisition and condemn me to auto da fe, I’ll ask for fried green tomatoes as my last meal before meeting my M-ker…I’ll trade you my share of fried chicken for your share of the green tomatoes…
Kamchak
May 27th, 2010
5:11 pm
I never understood the fear of Palin from the left.
Not sure how many times we go over this until it sinks in—I’m not afraid of Sarah Palin—amused by, yes—fear, no.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:11 pm
Dave R
On Redneck…his command of the dialect is not very good, but I do believe you and Dusty have a point…
Jay
May 27th, 2010
5:12 pm
We’ve discussed brown here very recently, Josef, in the case of Jessica Cololt. We’ve discussed gay here very recently. Issues of red and yellow, for various reasons, don’t have political consequence in these parts.
I do find the “Cheap Shot” description rather odd though. Cheap Shot at who?
Jay
May 27th, 2010
5:13 pm
There are days I would certainly agree about Redneck.
More days than I would care to acknowledge.
You can call me Will
May 27th, 2010
5:15 pm
Did someone say civil tights. Nope. That’s not it… Was it men’s rights. No. That’s not it…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 27th, 2010
5:16 pm
Why don’t you get RedNeck to write your column? He’s even better at this hatred thing. He’s even funny on rare occasions. RedNeck the Riveting Reviler coming up at the AJC!!
Well, I’m ready to take the call when the AJC is ready to make it. Nobody knows I placed 2nd in that contest to find Wooten’s replacement, the job this runny-nose Wingfield got. I ain’t too good at spelling and squiggly marks and stuff like that, but I’m a pretty fair writter.
But I’m not sure I can live on the starvation wages people like Bookman make. Maybe I should hold on to my beer truck for awhile. Besides, I can do alot more damage to the libruls and Those People the way things are than by writting a blog and letting AJC people cross everything out just because when I don’t like somebody I come right out and say it. And I talk about their mother too.
And you know good and well if I posted a film with a woman in orange shorts it would be about Sister Dusty and alot of you would be begging not to see it again. Instead of asking to see it more.
Have a good night everybody.
mike
May 27th, 2010
5:17 pm
Yawn. Playing the race card yet again?
Well, when the only tool you have is a hammer, you see a lot of nails.
Can’t wait for November.
mike
May 27th, 2010
5:19 pm
“Why don’t you get RedNeck to write your column? ”
Nah. His kind of ignorant and hateful bigotry is revolting to all civil people.
Jay may be a partisan, but at least his is not an ignorant and hateful bigot.
Wahoo
May 27th, 2010
5:20 pm
@ Kamchak “Not sure how many times we go over this until it sinks in—I’m not afraid of Sarah Palin—amused by, yes—fear, no.”
I was responding specifically to Amvet’s comment “As was noted earlier they were also scared moose sh_tless of Sister Sarah”
Notwithstanding your view, I know many liberals who were indeed afraid of her. Maybe it was because she could rile up the GOP base – I don’t know. For the record, I share your sentiment. On my personal scale she vacillates between amusing and “needs to go have a snowmobile accident”.
Normal
May 27th, 2010
5:21 pm
Can’t stay, but somebody earlier had a new name for Obama…Uncle tomobama…Not wanting to stir the pot, mind you, but have you considered Oreobama? You know, black on the outside, but white on the inside? He’s the consummate politician, so he has to think like an old white man…goes with the occupation.
Food for thought…headed out, see y’all later…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
5:22 pm
And yes, Catholicism was still an issue back then in the South.
Parts of the South perhaps but Catholicism was never a big issue on the Gulf Coast. There’s always been a very large Catholic population there. After all the Mardi Gras in the US started in Mobile, Alabama.
The South isn’t some big homogeneous place where everything is the same. It never has been.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2010
5:22 pm
Well, when the only tool you have is a hammer…
…go out and by an air compressor, hoses and pneumatic nail guns. You’ll make the money back in two days.
Normal
May 27th, 2010
5:23 pm
Dusty,
Did it occur to you that, come November, my vote will nullify your’s?
Jay
May 27th, 2010
5:25 pm
A job switch, Redneck?
Tempting, because there are days when driving a beer truck must have its benefits. Among other things, everyone would be glad to see me, right? Maybe even Mike.
Kamchak
May 27th, 2010
5:26 pm
Notwithstanding your view, I know many liberals who were indeed afraid of her.
I don’t know any who is afraid of her. This is Frank Luntz wet dream. The politics of fear has manifested itself into the language of debate. Opposition now presupposes fear.
LydiasDad
May 27th, 2010
5:28 pm
Rand got in trouble for not being politically correct. Right and wrong has nothing to do with political correctness; in fact it often conflicts. The left just wants what feels good–not what is right.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
5:30 pm
Kam, you *better* be afraid! She’s done……………so much.
I only hope that for the comedic factor alone, she does more…(Where did I put those damn notes?…)
Dusty
May 27th, 2010
5:31 pm
So…Jay writes another epistle on how broadminded he is and stirring up racial animosity is just something to be enjoyed. He calls it discussion. That is the prime version of bigotry. Bookman’s deliberate placing of racial commentary tries to make the comments of one insignificant politican as the mindset of every Republican.
It is not the mindset of Republicans. Perhaps it is the mindset of a libetarian politician who believes that every individual has the right to decide on his business practices as one phase of freedom. I don’t pay attention to Rand Paul because he is of little importance as far as I can tell. So I haven’t listened to his explanations. Don’t care. He has free speech like the rest of us.
.
Anti-lib
May 27th, 2010
5:32 pm
Amen Dusty!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:32 pm
JAY
Oh, I will agree we occasionally throw the dog a bone…and of course Arizona has forced us into a recognition that the brown are there…the yellow? When, where? I missed it. And red…yeah? Please refer me to when YOU have brought that one up…
Cheap Shot…did I say it was directed to a person? No, it’s directed at a group of people…like I said, you can do the same thing by looking at the election returns from 1928 and 1964 and spin that the opposite direction…
And I never mentioned gay…that’s been much a topic…we’re center stage right now…but let me ask you, and I am not being snarky, what ARE the red civil rights issues…? What do you mean that the red and yellow don’t have “political consequences” in these parts? The red sure does in this household…oh, that’s right, the Vanishing American…
As SoCo and I were saying the other night, we’ve got to move on beyond 1964 and realize that civil rights is not a black-white issue and so long as we keep discussing it from that paradigm, we’re going nowhere fast…
Kamchak
May 27th, 2010
5:34 pm
AmVet
You better you better you bet
tom
May 27th, 2010
5:37 pm
The Libitarian party has dismissed Rand Paul as a representative of their party. The guy stepped on it big time. Might not recover.
Ken
May 27th, 2010
5:38 pm
While I agree with you that Rand Paul should have expected a strong reaction, where I disagree with you is from whom. The strong reaction is from the media, whether it be television or print. Not from the public. The public is too smart for the media. This will not effect the outcome of the race. It is sickening to me how the left and right play their games and play on people’s fears. If you support Rand Paul you are a racist. That is the left’s position if they are ever challenged on anything. Or the republican side, if you don’t support the war or the republican way, then you are not a real american, you are not patriotic, and you don’t support the troops. Both are lies of the political parties, pushed by people like Limbaugh, Coulter, Maddow, Olberman, FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC, countless right wing or left wing newspapers with writers who are either left or right wing. Maddow does not even try and hide her lobbying for the Democratic candidates. Paul was naive and thought she was fair, because he was treated fairly in the past. That was when the Paul’s were a thorn in the republican party. Now that Maddow’s party is threatened by him, it is try and smear and bring up every possibly inconsequential question to try and paint him as a racist, so the Democrats can win. At least O’Reilly who is totally in bed with NeoCon thought, at least makes an attempt to pretend he is neutral. (independent objective argument in the media is dead). Your views are obviously equally slanted. The only chance is blogs, where there are some who will call out both parties. This people are rare though. Most people with any intelligence level, knows that 1) He is not going to try and appeal the act. 2) the portion of the act he was referring to would never happen except for a small portion of places in the United States, where most people don’t want to be anywhere near anyways.
I have also heard in the 08 election from McCain/Palin, (almost 100% Palin), that they represent real americans (whatever the hell that means). Now the left is having there turn, and I am starting to hear references like Tea Party people who believe in smaller government are not real americans or are extremists.
The sad part is the policial establishment are the real extremists. Who else could run up a credit card bill this high (the deficit) give blanket authority to an outside quasi corrupt government organization like the federal reserve whose policy is to still from the poor and middle class and give to bankers and have no accountability. And by the way, a lot more republicans stood up against the banks then they Dems. The banks on the Dem’s and the oil companies own the elephants. It is not complicated.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
5:45 pm
“The Libitarian (sic) party has dismissed Rand Paul as a representative of their party.”
Tom, re: your 5:37: That isn’t remotely true. ONE person (the Vice Chair for Kentucky) has dismissed him as not being libertarian enough, and didn’t have anything to do with his comments about the Civil Rights Act.
From newstimes .com: “Koch said Paul’s views on a variety of subjects differ from the Libertarian Party, including his promised support for any measures to ban abortion and his opposition to same-sex marriage.
“Trying to impose a national standard for that would throw the whole system out of balance, and that’s definitely not Libertarian,” Koch said.
Koch also said Paul is out of step with Libertarians in his unwillingness to call for U.S. troops to leave Iraq and Afghanistan.”
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
5:46 pm
Okay,
Topic. What is the CDIB card and what does it mean? Don’t go googling, just off the top of your head…
Samantha
May 27th, 2010
5:46 pm
Bet Blumenthal’s systematic lies about his military service NEVER qualifies to run afoul of history with Bookman.
Pogo
May 27th, 2010
5:47 pm
After listening to Obama’s so-called addressment of current pressing issues, it is apparent that he is nothing more than an egomaniacal underqualified politician who is continuously shedding his political skin to address the flavor of the day while at the same time keeping his REAL controlling core value, “social justice”, intact. It is embarrassing to watch him at a press conference. No wonder he doesn’t give more of these because “uh and ahh” don’t cut it in the real world. His press secretary, for all the information he provides, shouldn’t even show up. Of course, I guess its really hard to provide cover for the actions of a corrupt, European idolizing and Chicago trained politician. And no, he isn’t European, but he would like the rest of us to live as though we were. That European model of a one world order is really working out well isn’t it?
Bosch
May 27th, 2010
5:48 pm
“The public is too smart for the media.”
Bwahahahahahaha!!! I guess that’s why folks like Scout and Andy eat up everything Fox throws out as the Gospel.
and Del – no fair. Barbra is equally as scary.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
5:52 pm
As usual, I see many of you do not know the difference between racism, bigotry, prejudice, bias or plain just not liking someone.
I sincerely believe I don’t have a “racist” bone in my body ……….
I am sure I (and you) have been a little bigoted, prejudiced or biased at one time or another ……….
I don’t like Auburn fans or liberals ……….
Jefferson
May 27th, 2010
5:53 pm
If Paul is talking he is hurting himself. What he says just won’t work and he can’t stay elected if he wins. If he wins, so what — nothing fundementally will change.
Mary Elizabeth
May 27th, 2010
5:55 pm
I am glad that Jay brought up Rand Paul’s remarks again this week because even though I rarely respond on blogs, I decided to – this one time – to give firsthand witness to the Jim Crow era in Georgia in the 1950s when I was a white teenager. Not only was Paul politically naive to make his statements regarding the Civil Rights Act, his emotional insensitivity to racial injustice in the South (and in the rest of the nation) became blatantly obvious when he did so.
Here are examples of my teenage experience in South Georgia in the 1950s, written in stream of consciousness form for time and space: driving my Mom’s weekly maid to her home, a small one-room “shack” (as they were called by whites back then) with black dirt, not grass on the ground – a nice black lady who just could not bring herself to sit in the front of the car with me, even upon my many requests; going to the movie theatre with all the black kids “housed” in the balcony only; separate restrooms; separate water fountains; fundamentalist preachers speaking in terms of bluebirds and redbirds as God’s plan to justify segregation to their congregations who wanted only to hear that anyway; walking down the town’s sidewalk and averting my eyes downward when passing a black male; no black people in my school, my church, my restaurants, certain stores; everything preprogrammed as to how one should think regarding race relations, the role of women, Catholics, Jews, etc. I left in 1963 for the North, and returned in 1970 teaching in an all black school for one semester before integration occurred. I had to screen beforehand every place in town where I took the children on a field trip to make certain that the students would not be turned away and humiliated by that act. I was told to do this by a kind, wiser, and older black teacher. She was right to tell me this as many privately owned business would still not accept the black children without a scene in 1970 in Georgia.
What I think is missing from the consciousness of many people who write on this subject is that the public/private debate is not as sanitized emotionally as would appear on the surface. When the South lost the Civil War, it resented Federal (or Northern) “intrusion” into Southern affairs out of bitterness of defeat of its “lost cause” – which was immorally based on the superiority of some human beings over others. Thereafter, this “lost cause” consciousness manifested itself in States Rights, and even today Georgia’s conservative legislators are perpetuating this Southern Independence of Federal Government Control theme by passing laws forbiding the federal government to have control of microchips placed in one’s body, forbiding Obamacare to coming into Georgia or by repealing it so that it cannot enter our domain, refusal to accept Stimulus money from the government, and the Texas governor continues to speak of the old Secession theme to appeal to some constituents. (Scout, and others, the reason that more Democrats did not
vote for the Civil Rights Act was because they were conservative, former Dixiecrat Democrats, who were segregationists at that time. Many of those conservative Democrats have now become Southern Republicans, in following the lead of Sen. Strom Thurman, the former segregationist senator from S.C.) In other words, ideological positions have remained so fixated, in the South and throughout our nation, because we divide ourselves from our fellow human beings, instead of choosing to “see” those who are different as ONE with us, as equals in every fundamentally human way. Distrust of the federal government, in the South, has morphed into distrust of any government so that we are foolishly dismantling our state public government schools and other public services for a glorified private sector, when there should always be a balance between the private and public sectors in our nation for the well being of all of us. Our nation has lost its balance. It is no surprise that the present Republican Party has its base in the conservative South for all of the reasons I have mentioned above. We cannot divorce ourselves from our history if we are to be conscious human beings. Furthermore, if we desire to become spiritually enlightened human beings, as Bishop Schori was appealing for us to become, in her remarks, we will care for this planet, our collective home and, I will add, care for ALL of its people as being One with us and stop the endless divisions as perpetuated on Fox News, and through broadcasters such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. We will speak out, as I am trying to do here, in the South and break up the tendency to stereotype those who are different from us. Look inside EACH person, not outside by race or religion or sexual orientation, for answers to each person’s merit and spirit and do not be intimidated to speak similar words in your families, churches, and social organizations even if they do not agree with you. Many times they do agree with what I have said here, but are afraid to speak differently from their nurturing group. This type of perception would, of course, include increasing our care for Latino children who find themselves within our nation as their parents sought survival through work here, even as we build a better system for immigration system together.
Lastly, Josef Nix, I do not think that Jay’s picture choice last week on the Rand Paul comments was “hyperbole,” as you mentioned last week, based on my teenage experiences which I gave above. I was very glad to see that Jay did not remove that picture as his words would have lost much of their emotional impact without the picture – which was my experience and that experience was felt throughout many parts of our nation. As I recall, his comments transitioned and his last two paragraphs reinforced the validity of that photograph being chosen perfectly well.
Depth of understanding, which some call wisdom is more highly to be valued than knowledge. We must, as all people on our planet home, begin to know deeply in our hearts that we are truly all one, under God, however we individually perceive God to be.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
5:58 pm
So Mary Elizabeth, based on these words you wrote, you seem to be against affirmative action. True?
“Look inside EACH person, not outside by race or religion or sexual orientation, for answers to each person’s merit and spirit and do not be intimidated to speak similar words in your families, churches, and social organizations even if they do not agree with you.”
Dusty
May 27th, 2010
6:00 pm
Well, as usual RedNeck can picture prejudice in a more rediculous way than Bookman. (But the orange shorts things is worn thin. Bosch wore that one out a long time ago.).
As Bookman said in his recent addon to Josef. “Isssues of red and yellow for various reasons, don’t have polticial consequences in these parts”. THESE PARTS? As in Southern? That age old insinuation that not red & yellow but black is the hated color in the South where more progress has been made in the elimination of black discrimiantion than other parts of the country? Bookman sits in the middle of Atlanta and insinuates such a thought?
But, go for it, Bookman. You are playing the innocent. But it does not fit the picture.
IN the meantime, I go to complete Chinese chicken and rice. I think it is yellow. Better check!!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:01 pm
Dusty
Probably told you this one before, but what the hay, Unmentionable says to lighten up and talk to somebody who knows what an Indian is…
White lady was driving through New Mexico and saw an old Navajo walking down the road, stopped and gave her a ride. The old lady rode for a while in silence, then looked at the bag on the seat, and asked the white lady what was in it. “A bottle of wine I got for my husband.” The old Navajo opened it. studied the bottle for a few minutes, then said, “pretty good deal.”
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
6:01 pm
All together now, If I had a mike, I’d mike in the morning, I’d mike in the evening…
Jay
May 27th, 2010
6:01 pm
I’m thinking I should let Mary Elizabeth write my next column.
jt
May 27th, 2010
6:02 pm
Rand Paul: (nervous laugh) You had to ask me the “but.” um.. I don’t like the idea of telling private business owners – I abhor racism – I think it’s a bad business decision to ever exclude anybody from your restaurant. But at the same time I do believe in private ownership. But I think there should be absolutely no discrimination on anything that gets any public funding and that’s most of what the Civil Rights Act was about to my mind.
I hate quibling, but I still standby the fact that Doctor Paul NEVER said he was against the CRA. He claimed to NOT LIKE certain aspects of it.(private property). He didn’t say he would not have supported it.
I think that that is an important distinction. The second link was the same. He had problems with certain aspects of the CRA as all Americans who cherish private property should.
As far as his “reversal”, this is straight from the Horse’s mouth———————–
“I believe we should work to end all racism in American society and staunchly defend the inherent rights of every person. I have clearly stated in prior interviews that I abhor racial discrimination and would have worked to end segregation. Even though this matter was settled when I was 2, and no serious people are seeking to revisit it except to score cheap political points, I unequivocally state that I will not support any efforts to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
“Let me be clear: I support the Civil Rights Act because I overwhelmingly agree with the intent of the legislation, which was to stop discrimination in the public sphere and halt the abhorrent practice of segregation and Jim Crow laws.
“As I have said in previous statements, sections of the Civil Rights Act were debated on Constitutional grounds when the legislation was passed. Those issues have been settled by federal courts in the intervening years
“My opponent’s statement on MSNBC Wednesday that I favor repeal of the Civil Rights Act was irresponsible and knowingly false. I hope he will correct the record and retract his claims.”
“The issue of civil rights is one with a tortured history in this country. We have made great strides, but there is still work to be done to ensure the great promise of Liberty is granted to all Americans.
“This much is clear: The federal government has far overreached in its power grabs. Just look at the recent national healthcare schemes, which my opponent supports. The federal government, for the first time ever, is mandating that individuals purchase a product. The federal government is out of control, and those who love liberty and value individual and state’s rights must stand up to it.
“These attacks prove one thing for certain: the liberal establishment is desperate to keep leaders like me out of office, and we are sure to hear more wild, dishonest smears during this campaign.”
If you want to find racism Jay, go look at your nearest friendly federal correction facility.
itpdude
May 27th, 2010
6:05 pm
Jay, you are probably the best editorial writer on the AJC staff. And I disagree with you on a lot.
You are supremely fair in your assertion about making an intelligent argument against the CRA. And personally, I think PARTS of the act should be rescinded, such as forcing private businesses to let black people in their establishments. Is it a jackass move to say, “no blacks?” Uhhh, yeah.
But that’s also freedom, hoss. If some business doesn’t want my white business, is it a jackass move? Yup. But that is freedom. If someone doesn’t want me in their house because I’m white, is it a jackass move? Yes. But that is freedom. If a black woman won’t date a man because he’s white, is that a jackass move? Yes. But that is freedom.
Or would you force the black woman to bed a white man in the name of “equality” or some such blather?
It’s one thing to discriminate in government. We SHOULD be equal under the law. But quite another to say, “I serve a black clientele.”
And here is the proof that liberal whites are not serious about black equality: They would rather dwell on a black not allowed to sit at a lunch counter but raise NOT A PEEP about how black men are FAR more likely to be sentenced to death for murder. Or how black men receive far harsher penalties under our “justice” system.
But liberal whites want to raise Cain about a black not being allowed in a country club or a pool or some other joint. It’s a pretty pathetic commentary on the white liberal left when they are more concerned about the swarthy bourgeois being seated at a fancy restaurant table while the poor buck Negro is being sentenced to death on skimpy evidence. Pretty pathetic.
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
6:05 pm
Jay’s Guest Column? Saturday or Sunday, perhaps. Give it a try, Jay.
jt
May 27th, 2010
6:06 pm
Once again in case you missed it.
If you want some racism, go down to any Federal Correctional Facility.
You’ll see all you want..
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:06 pm
“I’m thinking I should let Mary Elizabeth write my next column.”
Why am I not surprised, Jay.
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
6:08 pm
If we all lived in the dark, what would we do. Develop keener senses of smell?
Jay
May 27th, 2010
6:08 pm
Why WOULD you be surprised, Dave R?
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:09 pm
I’m not. It makes as little sense as this one does.
dax
May 27th, 2010
6:09 pm
well i think goldwater must have read into the future. it’s so true. i tried to get on to be a fireman. i couldn’t. it’s because i’m a white male. yeah i know, the lowest of the lows…according to liberals. worse thing is, i was never alive during slavery, but i’m told to feel guilty for being white.
jt
May 27th, 2010
6:09 pm
Go visit Rice Street.
Therein lies some more racism.
INSTITUTIONALIZED racism. Thanks to the benovolent Federal government.
And Rand Paul only makes a comment about curtailing some powers and the pundits go berserk.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:10 pm
Mary Elizabeth…
Well, the hyperbole comment was a flashback to an earlier exchange between me and Jay when I had to agree with him on a matter of hyperbole when I would rather not have. Yes. it is hyperbole. Just as is tonight’s. I am a native of the South myself and grew up here in the 1960s, left for a few years to go up to the Northwest to university but chose to come back home in no small part due to the overt prejudice against Indians (Unmentionable was subject to it on the job and on the street). I have my own stream of conscious memoires as well and could, if I chose, tell stories of personal experience to make your hair stand on end, but one thing I have learned–the South is no more predisposed to bigotry and racism than any other part of Western Civilization…just like all the rest, we have our success and we have our failure…to zero in on 1964 and not move beyond, as I said, is the same hyperbole I employ when not moving beyond 1865. The difference here is that I know I am doing it and will admit to it…like to stir a stink…
itpdude
May 27th, 2010
6:11 pm
BTW, sweet post by Mary Elizabeth. Incredible stuff and thank you, ma’am.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:12 pm
And, Jay, my man…you see we keep on discussing it in terms of black and white…I rest my case…only Dusty, SoCo and I seem to be able to see beyond that…
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:14 pm
Jay
You were in the Northwest. Were you there at the time of the Boldt Decision?
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:14 pm
Hey, josef, don’t forget ME!
TaxPayer
May 27th, 2010
6:18 pm
The ones that scare me the most are the high caroten content folks. Those folks, well, for one thing, they eat like rabbits. It’s just plain, how do I say this as nicely as possible… it’s just, disgusting! And that orange day-glo appearance. Well, It’s just not natural!
Legend of Len Barker
May 27th, 2010
6:18 pm
Enjoyed the column, Jay. The 1960 and 1964 elections were something I had looked at a few months ago. 1960 was where it all changed. I was reading the Atlanta Daily World for black high school sports scores because they were something neither the Journal nor the Constitution carried.
The Daily World was for Kennedy and ran several pro-Kennedy ads. Black voters in Atlanta voted for Nixon. It was close, but it was a Nixon win.
Within four years, everything changed in Georgia. Ernest Vandiver not only desegregated UGA (and took charge of the issue, unlike in Alabama or in Mississippi) and then helped to desegregate Atlanta high schools a year later.
Kennedy’s assassination is interesting to read in the more rural papers around the state. Most of the youth were hit solidly by his death; the adults were stunned, but most papers weren’t overly emotional. JFK as well as Robert Kennedy had made an enemy out of the South. Not only for their pro-integration stance, but for Robert’s involvement with the Freedom Riders.
LBJ was a backstabber. A Texan who supported Civil Rights and not caring who he offended to make it happen.
Carl Sanders had been elected in 1962. While Sanders didn’t do anything as “offensive” as Vandiver, I think it says something about the state when Lester Maddox – initially regarded as a joke because of the depth of his views and his abrasiveness – won the election.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
6:19 pm
I arrived there after it was handed down, Josef, but certainly saw it being implemented and the consternation it caused.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:22 pm
Dave R..
Don’t forget ME?
Fill me in…my jerking knee is clouding my perception at the moment…
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:25 pm
jt:
If you want to see some “racism” try walking down Auburn Avenue tonight at 10pm with a Confederate Battle Flag and a $100 bill taped to your forehead (all of which is you right to do and Constitutional) and see what happens.
BTW, if anyone does that you are also stupid.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:27 pm
josef: “And, Jay, my man…you see we keep on discussing it in terms of black and white…I rest my case…only Dusty, SoCo and I seem to be able to see beyond that…”
Don’t forget me. You helped me to understand more about native-americans and their plight than I knew before.
And since I’m color-blind about all things human, I don’t think black or white in any case.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
6:29 pm
Jay, Josef
As someone not familiar with the Boldt Decision, what are y’all’s takes on it?
Legend of Len Barker
May 27th, 2010
6:30 pm
There is a reason why the Civil Rights Act was pushed through, including those provisions on who private businesses could and could not serve:
The South had pretty much proven over the course of the last 100 years that federal intervention was the only way to change things.
Take away slavery? We’ll set up Black Codes.
Ensure that blacks are citizens? We’ll disenfranchise with grandfather clauses, white primaries, and literacy requirements (which Herman Talmadge dropped when more whites were been disenfranchised than blacks)
Black men looking to express opinions? Lynch law. There are confirmed lynchings in this state that happened because a black man was reading issues of northern black newspapers and passing them out.
Lynch law was so scary that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled in a case that it would not extradite a man to Georgia because Georgia could not ensure his safety. This was in the 1930s or 1940s.
Two school systems in Georgia had done any bit of desegregation (Atlanta and Chatham) before the 1964 Civil Rights Act. This was 10 years after Brown vs. Board of Education supposedly overturned segregation.
Then you have guys like Lester Maddox boasting that the feds couldn’t make the Pickrick serve black citizens. Blacks were good enough to cook food in Maddox’s restaurant, but weren’t good enough to go inside the dining area. He wasn’t the only one. James H. Gray, Albany’s media mogul purchased a swimming pool a year after the city shut both of them down. He purchased the white one, for whites only, and went out of his way to decline service for black citizens.
I don’t think a reversal of this would send us back to segregation. But it was something absolutely necessary to end segregation in the South.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:32 pm
Scout, your 6:25 was funny!
Probably true, but funny
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
6:32 pm
Yes, great post Mary.
Brutally honest and wise…
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:35 pm
JAY
Good. Then we have a point of relation here. I was a young Turk at the time, leaving my native land as a political refugee with a bad taste in my mouth and ready to change citizenship. I mean there I was in liberal la la land. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Then came the Boldt Decision. What I was hearing caused me to fire off a letter to the editor of the B’ham Herald, in which I compared what I was hearing to the worst excesses of “back home.” The editor had me come in, talked to me and ran the letter complete with a picture of me and top of the op-ed page. I didn’t understand why, but what the hey, takes your plaudits, eh? We were totally unprepared for the backlash from the liberal white Northwesterners. The threats were every bit the equal of the klanners back home. It was an eye opener.
During it all, I got a call from a fellow wanting “to talk to you about Indians.” My reaction was, well, not exactly welcoming. He laughed, “maybe I ought to introduce myself more properly. I’m Joe Louie, Tribal Chairman of the Nooksack.” We met and he invited me to an “Indian ceremony.” It was the graduation exercise and dinner for the tribal school being held at the local “good hotel.” I was seated to his right and he made an introduction and then the “festivities” continued in the boring and drawn out fashion of any Civitans Club anywhere in the land. I was about to go bonkers when the valedictorian whispered, “come on out back with me for some Indian ritual.” Well, the statute of limitations is out now, but it was Yakima Fireweed, and you, having been there in time and place, know what that meant!
But what I learned from that was this: call it whatever you want to, anytime “they” get their rights upheld, the mainstream is going to squawk, even when that mainstream would call me every kind of dog known being from down South, you know…totally incapable of dealing with their own same song, different dance…much of what we see hereabouts…
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:38 pm
The Boldt Decision upheld the treaty rights the Indians had to half of the salmon catch. That being a major industry in the area, the white (and a few black) fishermen went on a rampage…
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
6:40 pm
Looks like the reactionaries better prepare for yet another defeat.
Conservative Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson said Wednesday he will support a proposed repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law against gays serving openly in the military – upping the odds that the measure will pass.
The Nebraska lawmaker, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, announced his decision as the panel gathered to hammer out a military policy bill that is expected to include a provision to repeal the controversial law.
“I don’t believe that most Nebraskans want to continue a policy that not only encourages but requires people to be deceptive and to lie. The ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy does just that,” said Mr. Nelson in a prepared statement.
The measure is now expected to have enough support to clear the panel in a vote as early as Thursday, setting up a full vote in the Senate, where 60 votes in the 100-member chamber likely will be needed for passage.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Nelson-Repeal-Dont-Ask/2010/05/27/id/360281
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:40 pm
Dave R…
I was unaware that anyone was paying any attention. I make no pretense to being any kind of authority on the subject, but having spent the last 35 years sharing beads and blankets with one, I do have an interest in the matter…
And, again, CDIB?
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
6:44 pm
And another…
About a week after acknowledging he “misspoke” about his military service during the Vietnam era, a new poll released Thursday shows Democratic Senate candidate Richard Blumenthal remains popular among Connecticut voters and maintains a double-digit lead in the race.
The Quinnipiac University Poll, conducted May 24-25, shows Blumenthal leading the endorsed Republican Senate candidate, former wrestling executive Linda McMahon, by a 56 percent to 31 percent margin in the race to fill the seat being vacated by the retiring Sen. Chris Dodd.
Blumenthal had led McMahon 61 percent to 28 percent in a March 17 survey.
“It looks like Connecticut voters forgive Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, or feel that there is nothing to forgive in the Vietnam service flap,” said poll director Douglas Schwartz. “While he has taken a hit with voters, his poll numbers were so high to begin with that he still maintains a commanding lead over Linda McMahon.”
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:44 pm
Legend of Len Barker :
Do you think there is more pure racism/bigotry/segregation today in the North or in the South ?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:46 pm
AmVet:
You are correct and sadly with Memorial Day coming up that a dishonor to every one of those 58,000+ names on the Vietnam Wall.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:47 pm
Excuse me: “that is a dishonor”
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
6:47 pm
Josef
Thanks, I wanted a little more perspective than a Google search. Lots of those treaties had the old “as long as the grass grows and the rivers flow” line but it turned out more like Joe South’s line, “the grass don’t grow and the river don’t flow like it did in my childhood days”.
From your brief synopsis, sounds to me like the sticking point was money, as it nearly always is. As long as there is no money to fight over, people can get along fairly well but throw 30 pieces of silver on the table and everything changes. But in my view, the treaty said 50% and a deal’s a deal.
I’ve said before that people have been abusing each other since the dawn of time; only the methods and the “reasons” change.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:48 pm
josef, you told us not to google it, but I cheated.
Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood card
Curious Observer
May 27th, 2010
6:49 pm
I think it says something about the state when Lester Maddox – initially regarded as a joke because of the depth of his views and his abrasiveness – won the election.
He didn’t “win” the election, Len. It was thrown into the state legislature, and the choice was really between a Republican and Lester. At that time, Republicans still carried the stench of integration to Southerners, and the Democratic, anti-integration legislature selected Lester.
Still, to give him credit, Lester Maddox did more for higher education in Georgia than any other governor, before or since. And among other actions, he cracked down on the speed traps in Ludowici, removing the authority of the police to issue tickets. Finally, he appointed more blacks to higher government positions than any other governor, before or since.
I worked at Colony Square during his last years, and I occasionally met him during a lunchtime stroll down 14th Street. He was a sad, lonely figure at the time. But for all his displayed bigotry during his campaigns, I couldn’t help but believe that there was something fundamentally decent about the man. Though he stood in many of his public statements for many things I abhor, his actions in office bore my belief out. I suppose I’m about as liberal as they come, but I pay tribute to Lester Maddox’s accomplishments. His was a strange contrast between public, abhorrent statements and real progress in racial relations and progressive development. May God rest his soul.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
6:52 pm
That ’s a pitch-perfect description of that time and place, Josef. Anti-Indian bigotry in the West — particularly in the intermountain West — is as virulent as any form of racism in the country.
I remember walking into a two-bit country club bar in Wyoming with a friend from the local reservation — a guy who had been at the confrontation at Wounded Knee — and being startled by how nervous he was about how he might be treated. You’d have thought he was a black man breaking the color line down South, which in effect he was.
And that was in the early ’90s.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
6:52 pm
BTW
Anybody noting the Cherokee ad running with the blog post? We are. And, Jay, let your handlers know that, yes, some of us do pay attention to the advertisers who make it possible for us to sound off here…
And how does it play hereabouts? Well, mixed emotions…one side says “yes, go and try to understand. ” Another side says, “come on up, white and black folks, and see ‘real’ Indians (oops Native Americans) doing real Indian things on the reservation and bring your Andrew Jackson’s to spend…”
Teller of Tall Tails
May 27th, 2010
6:53 pm
Scout,
I hear once DADT is repealed, a new ritual will become more commonplace in the military — in the middle of the night, certain people of the manly man, soap in sock variety will be stripped and dressed in pink leotards and left out on the parade grounds at the most inopportune times. What do you think. Will it change their behavior.
AmVet
May 27th, 2010
6:55 pm
“…dishonor to every one of those 58,000+ names on the Vietnam Wall.”
Maybe so, I’d put it on par with say, someone telling scurrilous lies about some of America’s finest young men and women and future leaders in the United States Army, refusing to shake hands with their Commander in Chief.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:56 pm
Legend of Len Barker:
I suppose you remember that free blacks were not allowed to vote in many Northern States for years after the war, some States required a $1,000 cash bond for a black to even enter the State and coming up to modern times I am sure you remember those fine citizens of Boston turning over school buses when someone tried to tell them where their kids would go to school. And don’t leave out what the American Army did to Native Americans after 1865. I could go on and on …….. but I think you get the picture.
No one is innocent.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:59 pm
AmVet, please prove that Scout lied.
Please prove that he he knew what he said was wrong WHEN HE SAID IT.
Otherwise, as I wrote before, please can the “lie” crap.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
6:59 pm
AmVet:
LOL !
Teller of Tall Tails:
LOL ! It will be worse than that …………..
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
6:59 pm
First on the third!
Scout
May 27th, 2010
7:00 pm
Dave R.:
Thanks but let it go. We may not even have an elevator going to the top floor here.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:00 pm
Dave R…
Okay, you get credit even if you did cheat…you looked it up…now, what does that mean in the discussion of minority civil rights….
Jay…
We made our decision to come back home after two events, I was attacked on the street for being a “g-dd*med Jew” (my magen david must have been the giveaway) shortly after Unmentionable was denied a promotion by a manager who had earlier told him “to go back to the reservation.” This is not to condemn the Northwest. It was, overall, a wonderful place full of great people and we have many fond memories which we choose to dwell on, but, in the final analysis…it was not that different from where we were from and, lessons learned, it was back home to where the rhythms suited our souls…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
7:04 pm
Curious Observer
And don’t forget “Little People’s Day”. Nobody else in my lifetime has had anything like that. And he is the only Governor in my lifetime, that left office with a smaller net worth than when he went in. I can remember 3 or 4 who made out like bandits.
Lester was a multi-dimensional man. Like the rest of us, he had his good points and he had his flaws. He came from very humble beginnings and he never forgot it.
And in his later life, Hosea Williams was one of his staunchest defenders. That might seem strange but it’s true.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:06 pm
Hillbilly @ 6:47
You said what I was trying to say, and as always, much better. Thanks.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
7:07 pm
…………… and don’t forget the percentage of the black vote George Wallace received his last time in office.
…………… and don’t forget Senator Byrd “wore the robes” !!!
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:08 pm
This is my rep:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/27/louisiana-dem-gets-emotional-over-oil-spills-impact/?fbid=IEeO5PQxAPx
He is a good man.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:09 pm
Hillbilly
And who is my hero? Hosea! Had many a great conversation with him…a man not afraid to think and speak for himself…would that we had more like him…
Scout–
Sssh! We’re not supposed to mention the blood genocide of the pesky noble savage from 1865 and the connection thereto…
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:11 pm
Lester Maddox and Hosea Williams…one of the reasons I called it a cheap shot…these issues are far, far more complex…and the Indians? Well, bottom line, Richard Nixon was the greatest defender of the Red man who ever sat in the oval office, and John McCain’s record on Indian issues is spotless and a true Fierce Advocate…
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
7:11 pm
josef, the thing about me and civil rights is that as a believer of the U.S. Constitution, I believe that all men (and women, even though it doesn’t explicitly say so), are truly created equal.
And should be treated as such.
Jay
May 27th, 2010
7:11 pm
I don’t believe Scout lied, by Dave’s definition. I think he eagerly believed and repeated something that was ludicrous on its face solely because it dovetailed with what he wanted to believe.
Any officer who refused to shake the commander in chief’s hand would have called into question his willingness to obey civilian leadership, and probably would have been stripped of his commission.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
7:13 pm
josef:
Slavery was horrible. Genocide is even worse.
As the noted General Sheridan once said (and his photo hangs in many government installations today), “the only good Indian is a dead Indian”.
AmVet, Amvet, AmVet …………. now I did read that somewhere but I could be telling a big lie !
Edgar Welty
May 27th, 2010
7:13 pm
In my view, Rand Paul is clearly an idealist. But does he, as a potential senator, have the ability to write law? To write law, one needs to know what will promote liberty and justice. Rand Paul believes in the ideal of liberty in private business decisions. But he has only recently realized that, in the 1960s South, private owners of restrooms, restaurants, entertainment venues and transport needed be required to open these facilities to blacks. Most “Public Accommodations” were, and according to Paul’s Libertarian ideals, ought to be privately owned. So should these facilites become publicly owned before blacks could use them? Was the “Free Market” going to combat racism in the near term? I think not. At that time, the force of law, was needed to secure blacks the right to move about freely and the justice of equal treatment. Rand Paul, as a potential senator, needs to think more clearly about the need for legal solutions in real imperfect societies, whether in the 1960s South or 2010 America.
Victims
May 27th, 2010
7:13 pm
“My gored ox trumps your gored ox.”
“Nhun-unh, my ox was gored first, I have dates to prove it.”
“Well, I have gored oxen, so that means I have more than you.”
“I have three gored oxen, and that beats a pair.”
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
7:15 pm
Jay? Your 7:11? Mark the calendar.
We agree on something!
jconservative
May 27th, 2010
7:16 pm
Nice column Jay and nice discussion by your readers. I am a white son of the south, born in 1942 and lived through the civil rights era in the south and mid-atlantic. We still have a long way to go.
What Paul said was politically amateurish as he now knows. Politically one must remove oneself from the intellecual point and speak to the human point. Which is what he did in his “re-statement” of his position.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
7:17 pm
Jay:
I’m not sure about that but I would like to know the answer. Saluting yes and being respectful in conversation and demeanor but a handshake or “pat on the back” I think may be outside the bounds. I will do some research but maybe we have an expert on here who would opine.
BTW: I have the entire graduation video I will be reviewing this weekend. I just know you hope I don’t find a couple ………………
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:18 pm
getalife
Again, thanks for the report from the ground. Here is a man who speaks for and from his constituency…what can you say…?
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:19 pm
Our friends on the right are clinging to a failed ideology and scared to death of being the minority because of the way they discriminated against minorities.
They should pray that the new majority does not treat them like they treated others.
Stop discriminating and you might be treated better when you are the minority because that is the future.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
7:20 pm
Josef @ 7:11
I never met Hosea, I knew Lester only in passing but knew some of his family very well. (And some of them didn’t do right by him but I suppose that’s none of my business.) I always thought they had a lot in common, though. They both came from very humble beginnings and succeeded through hard work and perserverance. I always felt that both were looked down on by their respective “establishments”. Neither really had anything in common with the well-to-do, silk stocking crowds.
I don’t know if they always knew that but I think by the time they reached late life, they realized it.
Curious Observer
May 27th, 2010
7:21 pm
And he is the only Governor in my lifetime, that left office with a smaller net worth than when he went in. I can remember 3 or 4 who made out like bandits.
My apologies for Lester’s memory for not mentioning that. He sold real estate almost to the day he died. He left office without the panoply of security details, magnificent estates, and luxury cars. He ate his lunch at drugstore lunch counters.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
7:22 pm
getalife, stop taking my money and you might be treated better as well . . .
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:22 pm
Dave R..
Here goes on the CDIB. American Indians are the only minority in the United States required “to prove” their status to be considered. No CDIB card, no shekels, no redress, no minority status…CDIB card? Go back to the reservation you pesky savage, quotas are filled…
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:23 pm
josef.
He helped my family out and continues to help so I know he is a good man.
Trying to convince some cons that he would be much better than vitter.
Tensions are high down here.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
7:24 pm
Curious Observer
And if I’m not mistaken, his number was always in the book after he left office. I know if you called him, he would talk to you. Hell, my Congressman won’t even do that.
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:25 pm
Dave R.
Tell it to the bankers.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
7:25 pm
See, josef, this is why I get so much information from you. Since I don’t even “see” minorities, I have no clue about some of the issues involved.
I see humans. Only humans.
I know, a rare and wonderful minority myself!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:27 pm
Hillbilly…
Hosea and I first touched base on matters of the old Atlanta School Board…found we spoke the same language and from there the conversations were free and fun…discretion being what it is, let’s just say he and I had the same opinion of Andy Young…
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:28 pm
Dave R.
Are you against DADT or immigration?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:30 pm
Dave R
You and Unmentionable would get along just fine…he can talk for months about somebody and then, when you meet them, they’ll turn out to be quite the opposite label than you thought…he says of folks who want to know what he wants to be called “an Indian or a Native American”: “I prefer to be called a man…”
I wish I could be that way, but I don’t have it in my make-up…
Teller of Tall Tails
May 27th, 2010
7:32 pm
When I drove a Nissan, I saw all the Nissans and when I drove a Honda, I saw all the Hondas and …
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
7:38 pm
getalife
Vitter? Now ain’t that one a mess? Louisiana can do better…I mean this IS the land of Huey P and Edwin Edwards… Okay, the point is?
No apologies, no faux chagrin…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
7:40 pm
discretion being what it is, let’s just say he and I had the same opinion of Andy Young
That’s sort of what I was getting at in a round about way. Andrew wasn’t the name I had in mind, though. I had a couple of different ones but I’ll just keep mum.
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:41 pm
josef,
After he was busted wearing diapers with a pros., he has been the gop no man.
A horrible man that dragged his wife out to the shame stage.
One of our worst corrupt senators.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
7:48 pm
getalife, I’m against DADT and against ILLEGAL immigration.
getalife
May 27th, 2010
7:54 pm
I know DaveR.
Those humans you discriminate against.
“I see humans. Only humans.”
Is bs.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
7:56 pm
Regarding my 7:17:
I have scoured Articles 88,89 & 90 of the USMJ but can find nothing specific to “handshaking”.
If anyone out there is aware of any case law, please advise.
P.S. One does not have to respect a superior officer ……… one only has to show respect for that officer via military protocol, obeyance of (legal) orders, etc., etc.
Saul Good
May 27th, 2010
7:59 pm
Off topic (slightly)…but then again Mrs. “I Quit” herself endorsed Rand…and then defended his remarks in her typical fashion: blaming the MSM (which she is now part of with her lucrative contract with Fox)… her best advice: “don’t answer any tough questions”… even when their easy ones to begin with.
I’m wondering why THIS isn’t being reported by the MSM (ya know…#1 rated FOX):
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/the-palin-brand/
FTA:
“In the midst of one of the most precipitous political crashes in the Mountain West, Sarah Palin made a mad dash into Boise on Friday, urging the election of a man who had plagiarized his campaign speech from Barack Obama, had been rebuked by the military for misusing the Marine uniform and had called the American territory of Puerto Rico a separate country….
…..And why not? Vaughn Ward, the Republican congressional candidate from Idaho, has the dubious character trifecta of the Palin brand: bone-headed, defiant and willfully ignorant. When told that Puerto Rico was not a country, he said, “I don’t care what you call it.”….
…..”Of late, whenever a candidate with the Palin blessing blows up, she blames it on the “lamestream media,” not personal responsibility. It’s a curious claim, coming from a person who said she studied journalism in college, but is appalled by real journalism.”….
Just as she blamed the “media” for Rand’s stupid comment. It was the MEDIAS fault…they MADE him say it by simply ASKING him a question… I hope one day someone asks him another tough one…like what newspapers he reads (”All of them…you betcha)!
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
8:05 pm
“Is bs.”
getalife, just because you are not on the same intellectual plane as I am regarding TRUE civil rights, you have no basis whatsoever to determine if what I say it how I truly feel.
I will let the totality of my life’s actions speak for me.
Saul Good
May 27th, 2010
8:06 pm
Oops…forgot THIS part which shows how the MSM like FOX failed to mention how one of their Tea****** candidates got WOMPED even though he raised 6 times the money and Mrs “I Quit” showed up in person to rally for him:
“On Tuesday, this Palin protégé was routed in a huge upset, despite a big early lead in the polls, a 6-to-1 fundraising edge and that Friday fly-in by the former half-term governor, who has Idaho roots. ”
But I guess Rand’s WIN was something they wanted to report about as a HUGE success… they like to skip over reporting their many failures.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
8:09 pm
Dave R
Okay, we’re agreed on DADT…now, serious question: you say you are against illegal immigraTION, how do you feel about illegal immigrANTS?
Hillbilly:
Would Maynard Jackson and Julian Bond (and maybe Obama) come to mind?
getalife
And she went out there…like Hillary and that “stand by your man” horsesh*t…I kinda like our local lady who, rather diplomatically, said “I’ll cut his d*mned balls off!”
Saul Good
May 27th, 2010
8:10 pm
Dave… Homosexuals have been fighting in combat alongside heterosexuals since cavemen threw stones at one another. Giving homosexuals Equal Rights IS the “civil rights” fight of this current generation. Or do you NOT agree with the part of our Constitution that states: “All men are created equal”…. are they not men(and women)? Do they not deserve ALL the same “rights” as all other humans?
Nice that you “pick and choose” which civil rights other humans may or may not have.
getalife
May 27th, 2010
8:10 pm
Okay rand paul.
getalife
May 27th, 2010
8:13 pm
josef,
Ouch.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
8:20 pm
getalife
My Little Princess had a bumper sticker that said “Lorena Bobbitt is my co-pilot!”
Saul
Dave is opposed to DADT…
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
8:20 pm
Sorry, Saul, but that WAS reported days ago.
Nice try.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
8:22 pm
Josef @ 8:09
If you were playing darts you’d have a mighty high score.
And on the subject of political spouses, I really admired Gov. Sanford’s wife for kicking his ass to the curb. Handled it perfectly I thought. Only better thing she could have done would be, go to the press conference, stand there ’til he’s through yammering, and then go upside his head a time or two for all the world to see.
theyeshaveit
May 27th, 2010
8:25 pm
Scout said, “OFF TOPIC #1?
Obama dodging question today on Sestak job offer: ” I can assure the public that nothing improper took place.”
Scout, upon being asked to provide evidence regarding his fabrication that the cadets refused to shake Obama’s hand “You’ll have my post by Monday and if it’s not there it’s not there. Big deal.”
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
8:26 pm
“you say you are against illegal immigraTION, how do you feel about illegal immigrANTS?”
josef, my preference is to send them back if they have broken any non-immigration-like laws, and put them at the back of the line for legalizing them if they haven’t broken any laws. But they have to learn English and they have one year from the time they get to their place in the line to pass their citizenship tests.
And don’t worry about Saul. His rabit nature means he doesn’t try to understand that which is not clear to him.
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
8:30 pm
Sorry, that would be rabiD nature. . .
Dave R.
May 27th, 2010
8:33 pm
So, getalife, what’s your problem with seeing people other than just humans?
Personally, I think my beliefs make my life easier and less stressful than those of you who are handicapped with seeing “color” as “different”.
theyeshaveit
May 27th, 2010
8:33 pm
Scout said, …………… and don’t forget the percentage of the black vote George Wallace received his last time in office.
Here’s the telling statistics.
National voter demographics
NBC sample precincts 1968 election
% Humphrey % Nixon % Wallace
High income urban 29 63 5
Middle income urban 43 44 13
Low income urban 69 19 12
Rural (all income) 33 46 21
African-American
neighborhoods 94 5 1
Italian neighborhoods 51 39 10
Slavic neighborhoods 65 24 11
Jewish neighborhoods 81 17 2
Saul Good
May 27th, 2010
8:34 pm
My mistake Dave…sorry… (about DADT)… but I know it was reported, but nowhere as much as the Rand “win”…
WWJD
May 27th, 2010
8:36 pm
Scout thanks for confirming that you’re still an idiot.
kayaker 71
May 27th, 2010
8:37 pm
Bozo has his crank in a wringer and it was evident today. He didn’t raise his chin in the air with that arrogant stare at all of the unfortunate little people sitting before him. The soft peddling that he is given by the press corps is nauseating. The only one with balls was Major Garrett when he finally asked about the Sestak affair. Then Bozo shucked and jived (about all you can do with your crank in the wringer) and mouthed some ridiculous answer confirming that he was caught dead to rights by an action, if proven, could result in the firing of his COS or go even higher. That look on your face when you are lying is hard to miss. And today, it glowed like a red neon sign.
kayaker 71
May 27th, 2010
8:46 pm
One more happy event in Bozo land…. Rassmussen today. Only 26% of the American public strongly approve of Bozo and just 28% believe that the country is headed in the right direction. With those kind of numbers, why would you even pretend that you are being effective in running this country? Only a patent narcissist would believe that he is in the right line of work.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
8:50 pm
Look, Scout may not be top of my list of best friends in the whole wide world list right now (he knows why!
) but he did back down and from somebody who’s had to do it hereabouts, it’s not an easy thing to do…so back off on that one, please.
eyes
I think he was referring to Wallace’s last gubernatorial bid in which he won, I think it was, 95% of the black vote…
Dave R
@ 8:26
We still seem to be on the same page together…but I’m not that strict on learning English…we don’t have a national language for a good reason…having learned languages other than my native English, I know how hard that can be…any immigrant knows that English is the language of access and of the constitional framework and, while they may not ever truly master it themselves, they do insist that their children do…
WestPointGrad1975
May 27th, 2010
8:51 pm
Scout, West Point grads did in fact shake President Obama’s hand. Link provided. army.mil/-news/2009/12/02/31214-president-visits-west-point
Mick
May 27th, 2010
8:52 pm
Scout – if you had the opportunity to meet the president, you would not extend a handshake?
Ape Times
May 27th, 2010
8:52 pm
It is so refreshing to see Bozo finally getting some attention. After he embarrassed Ronnie in that contest to see who could get the banana out of the jar, it has been hard. And when Ronnie found out that Bozo was getting top billing AND top pay in those movies, well! Let’s just say, things were a little touchy for a while around Ronnie’s house.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
8:57 pm
Mick
Afforded the opportunity to meet this president as just a citizen, I would NOT shake his hand. Were I to meet him as, say, a representative of the teaching profession, I would.
WestPointGrad1975
May 27th, 2010
9:00 pm
As a West Point grad I can guarantee that if their Commander in Chief extends his hand it will be shaken by a Cadet, followed by a smart salute. To not do so would be extremely unprofessional and insubordinate. You really showed your ignorance on that one Scout.
Art
May 27th, 2010
9:02 pm
Thanks WP. Obviously Scout never served his country or he wouldn’t have opened his mouth and inserted his foot like that. He’s definately on the lower end of the Bell Curve.
@@
May 27th, 2010
9:02 pm
Before my time, jay, but in a previous article, a lot of you said you liked Goldwater. I thought another Goldwater was what we needed.
Man, this gets confusing.
Liberal Pariah
May 27th, 2010
9:03 pm
Saul, who knew Obama has the Palin brand down better than she does….’bone headed, defiant and willfully ignorant’…unfortunately that describes the most powerful man in the world. Thanks for the clarity.
Rational Person
May 27th, 2010
9:05 pm
Jesse Helms was an awful racist. We are well rid of him.
And that’s speaking as someone who has been told to his face that he couldn’t apply for a job because he was white and male.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:05 pm
WestPoint
Exactly. That’s why I got so p*ssed when that California Cow didn’t want to be addressed as “ma’am.” Sssh…there is such a thing as protocol, even for the badly mannered…
Sarah Palin
May 27th, 2010
9:06 pm
I can see Russia from Little Diomede Island even though I’ve never been to Diomede. And by the way…
DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!!!
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:07 pm
Rational
No fan of Jesse myself but he did hire James Meredith…
kayaker 71
May 27th, 2010
9:08 pm
“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice”. Has a nice right to it.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:08 pm
Sarah–
Are you sure you’ve never been to Little Diomede? I’ve wondered that since this whole thing started…
kayaker 71
May 27th, 2010
9:09 pm
That’s “ring” to it.
theyeshaveit
May 27th, 2010
9:11 pm
Kind of off the topic, but did you know about this?
Fox News Erases Applause for Obama from West Point Cadets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rphLuGOUeJA&feature=related
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:14 pm
eyes
@ 9:11
Doesn’t surprize me one bit…all the media do this as part of the spin…it’s a tool of the trade…
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
9:15 pm
Where’s Jay tonight?? After Obama caused the market to tank yesterday, it took all of my genius to rescue it and head it back in the right direction today. I think a column dedicated to Bruno is in order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta-F4NAVURs
For Jay ^^^^^^^
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:21 pm
Bruno
I don’t where he is, but he cost me money today. I bet he’d thread on the drop in unemployment in Atlanta and he didn’t…
Legend of Len Barker
May 27th, 2010
9:24 pm
Scout asks, “Do you think there is more pure racism/bigotry/segregation today in the North or in the South ?”
I’ve never lived in the north, so I can’t provide an answer.
The northern experience for blacks was not part of my argument, not is it necessarily pertinent. The South was pretty bad for blacks from the 1700s through the 1960s, period. Does that mean the North was perfect? Absolutely not. But their flaws and their occasional lynching and their problems busing and integrating (and stereotypes of black culture into comedy) does not mitigate to any extent that the threat of violence and severe limitations were a constant in the South until the federal government finally got serious about protecting civil rights for black citizens.
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
9:26 pm
“I don’t where he is, but he cost me money today. I bet he’d thread on the drop in unemployment in Atlanta and he didn’t…”
If you’re accepting wagers, I’d like to make a standing bet that the topic du jour will be a slam piece involving a conservative with an inflammatory photo thrown in for good measure.
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
9:28 pm
One more from the Ohio Players, featured in the movie “Boogie Nights”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUvHgpbNbbU&feature=related
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
9:32 pm
WestPointGrad1975
You would know better than me but I would think for any cadet to refuse to shake any Commander in Chief’s hand would be to commit career suicide.
@@
A little background on the ‘60 & ‘64 elections from a Georgia perspective. I was very small in 1960 but I do remember people watching the Nixon-Kennedy debate. The only thing I really remember is that Grandma said she was voting for Kennedy because he was a Democrat. If she ever voted for a Republican, I don’t know it. Her reason? “I remember Hoover Days.”
In ‘64 I was a little more aware. My grandma again voted for the Democrat. My Granny never discussed politics that I remember and my Grandpa thought all politicians were “crooked SOB’s” (reckon where I got it?). I don’t really know but I figure he voted for Johnson. If he did, that didn’t stop him from cussing him after he was elected. I can’t actually remember but one or two politicians he didn’t cuss, including a couple of local ones to their face. I remember several other relatives supporting Johnson because they thought “Goldwater is going to get us in war”. My other Grandpa died before I was born, so I suppose he didn’t vote, although around here he might have. Maybe I should check that sometime. Anyway, that’s how it was in a small part of Georgia back then.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
9:35 pm
josef:
Thank you for helping “theyeshaveit” with his reading comprehesion. Notice I said black vote when he was last “in office.” Since he was never President that would mean when he was governor and as you say it was 95%.
Now, Mr. theyeshaveit ……… do you have any more comments or do you want to “retract” your chart on this subject ?
Paulo977
May 27th, 2010
9:36 pm
Flyers uncannily like Sister’s Sarah’s rants against Obama’s death panels and socialism
Del
May 27th, 2010
9:37 pm
Okay now we have the usual bunch of juvenile left wing posters (some who change their handles because they lack the guts to man up) attacking someone who posts comments contrary to their stupid P.C. positions. What a bunch of wastes. josef is the only one who stands up and calls these fools down.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
9:40 pm
Mick:
If the President came to my house I would address him as Mr. President, “probably” shake his hand and and converse with him with the respect due of the office he holds. If still with my prior agency I would protect his life (as President) with my own as I did for all from Ford through George W. Bush.
That said I reserve the right to engage verbally in sharp, strong, political satire much as Luckovich does in cartoon form. And I reserve the right to engage in direct accusations if I feel he has violated his oath of office.
BTW: This “Senategate” thing is really starting to grow legs. If a Republican were in office the MSM would be all over it. Will see what kind of integrity they really have as the weeks go by.
Nosey Neighbor
May 27th, 2010
9:40 pm
Poor Sarah had to put in a taller fence just to get out of the public eye. And all this time, I thought that all she had to do was shut up to accomplish that little goal.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:41 pm
Scout asks, “Do you think there is more pure racism/bigotry/segregation today in the North or in the South ?”
I think the difference is that insofar as the black-white paradigm is concerned, which apparantly we still insist is the only one by which to discuss the issue, the South is probably “purer” since here there is no attempt to call it anything but and thus there is greater honesty. In the North, in my opinion, there is a denial at work which, less “pure,” is far more insidious and more difficult to counter. Personally, I prefer the Southern version since I don’t have to go second guessing. I am not speaking of the legal sanctification which, under pressure, can be done away with, but the social attitudes which cannot be legislated.
Nosey Neighbor
May 27th, 2010
9:44 pm
Did some anonymous blogger just call out an anonymous blogger for being anonymous.
godless heathen
May 27th, 2010
9:44 pm
Since the subject is race, I’ll share a statement I heard the other day, I had to just shake my head at the ignorance, but it did strike me as funny. A super on a construction job I was visiting had a heated argument with a black immigrant truck driver. After the driver left the super said, “I’m not prejudice. I just don’t like the m_____ f_____s.”
Del
May 27th, 2010
9:45 pm
josef,
There was nothing in the South that compared to the Boston riots, the Detroit riots, the L.A. riots or the Cleveland Ohio riots.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
9:46 pm
WestPointGrad1975 :
Sir: I don’t doubt the sincerity of your post. I am merely looking for the exact UCMJ article or case law that places a “handshake” in the same category as a “salute” or proper way of address, “yes, sir”.
As I said before, military personnel must show respect for a superior officer (salute, “yes sir”, following of lawful orders) but they do not have to actually respect the superior officer (a handshake).
If you can point me to a regulation that specifically addresses “handshakes” I would appreciate it and stand corrected.
Scout
India Company
3rd Battalion, 4th Marines
Vietnam – DMZ, 1967-68
Robin's Hood
May 27th, 2010
9:47 pm
Holy Cow, Batman! We’ve got shades of racism in some places and the pure stuff in others. How is it in the bat cave.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
9:48 pm
Del:
josef is the only liberal on here who has any guts and who is at least fair.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
9:50 pm
josef @ 9:41
Precisely ………………..
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:51 pm
On the potential scandal…Unmentionable is calling it “Walkonwatergate…”
Del–
Aw, shucks!
Hillbilly
My own Granny was a true Yellow Dog Democrat, called the GOP the “Party of Diocletian of the Potomac” and said, “I’m a woman. The Democrats gave me the right to vote, so why shouldn’t I vote for them.” Cast her last vote for Jimmy Carter.
@@
May 27th, 2010
9:52 pm
Hillbilly:
My Dad REALLY didn’t like Goldwater. I wasn’t around for the election you’re talking about, but, my Dad talked about him being crazy or something like that.
______________________________________________
O.K., I went back and read the Goldwater thread. With the exception of Shawny, the only people that had good things to say about Goldwater, were those on the left.
So let me get this straight…those on the left, like racists? Must have been his isolationist policies.
Weird! and confusing.
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
9:52 pm
“In the North, in my opinion, there is a denial at work which, less “pure,” is far more insidious and more difficult to counter.”
Pardon my French, but how in the hell did you come up with that boola-boola, jo??
And you, lacking 7 generations of Northern predecessors before you, simply can’t understand Northern ways…..
GUts-R-US
May 27th, 2010
9:56 pm
Scout would have the guts to look his CinC in the eyes and refuse to shake his extended hand, for some unknown but totally unrelated to his being only half white reason. Now that’s GUTS.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
9:56 pm
Robin
Subtlety not being your strong suit…
getalife
May 27th, 2010
10:00 pm
Dadt just passed the house.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
10:01 pm
GUts-R-US :
He is my President but he is not my Commander in Chief. I am not in the military (since 1968) and am not under the UCMJ. Sorry.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
10:03 pm
WestPointGrad1975 :
Sir: Maybe you can help me out with something else. I read (don’t know if it is true or not) that this year’s West Point graduation ceremony was opened to the public for the first time in 100 years. Do you know (can you find out) anything about that??
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:03 pm
Some excellent background music for blogging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAvuxLf80Jo&feature=related
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:06 pm
Bruno
You will note that I put the word pure in quotes for a reason…
And, no, I don’t have 7 generations of Northern ancestors…I have none as a matter of fact and I do not claim to understand the Northern way of thinking. They are as foreign to me as are Mexicans or Moldavians. My observations of them are much as my observations of Mexicans and Moldavians. I just wish that they would return the courtesy.
Guts R Us–
Let me ask you something, seriously, can one not disagree with the current President without it coming down to race? I’ll tangle up one side and down the other with Scout on many of his viewpoints up to and including a walking cane duel at the old folks home, but I don’t see him as basing his dislikes of the President on more than his policies…ask him what he thinks of say Condaleeza Rice or Colin Powell…I don’t know myself…Scout? What do you think of them?
getalife
May 27th, 2010
10:08 pm
I guess the cons just have the immigrants to discriminate against now.
Until they pass amnesty.
Then they turn their hate on each other.
Not con enough.
Paulo977
May 27th, 2010
10:08 pm
Oh Mary
Elizabeth your post does much to clear the South of total bankruptcy of human morality!! There are so many of you here whose voices are stilled because of conventional customs but who I hope will one day be able to rise to the ocassion and vote for JUSTICE!
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 27th, 2010
10:13 pm
Geeze, get over Rand Paul…How about 10% unemployment, MILLIONS of gallons of oil in the gulf or the dow uner 10,000. Take your pick and discuss something of importance. Can you say beat a dead horse?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:14 pm
getalife
We’ll see how it turns out, my fingers are crossed…but I’m not breaking out the champagne just yet…there’s still all that “implementation” fine tuning…the devil’s in the details…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
10:16 pm
And you, lacking 7 generations of Northern predecessors before you, simply can’t understand Northern ways…..
Bruno, did you see my post to you the other night about my NJ connection?
I remember once seeing an interview with Willie Mays, when I was a boy. He was discussing this very subject. (Paraphrasing from memory here). He said that in the South, if he wanted to go in a place to eat, it would say “White Only”. He said in some parts of the North, if he wanted to go in a place to eat, there were no signs but he might go in and sit down and in 30 minutes, nobody would acknowledge that he was even there. Which is worse? I don’t know. Neither seems right to me.
Paulo977
May 27th, 2010
10:17 pm
Thank you Bruno ….just beautiful . Indeed, why can’t we?
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:20 pm
“Bruno, did you see my post to you the other night about my NJ connection?”
Missed that one, HD. I’m sure it is a tremendous source of pride to you! Jersey folks work hard and kick butt.
I’m sure you fellows know that my comment was tongue in cheek–just applying josef’s way of thinking back onto himself. According to him, my thirty years in the South doesn’t qualify me to speak of things Southern in any way, shape, or form.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
Bruno
And me not being a scientist, I prefaced what I said with “I think” and “in my opinion.” Remember, i AM a Gemini!
Scout
May 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
josef:
At one time I had hoped they would both run for President.
Then Powell betrayed us.
And remember …….. I am not a Republican ……… I am a conservative. I call ‘em like I see ‘em.
“Red and Yellow, Black & White,
They are setting in my sights,
Scout is watching politicians of the world”
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:23 pm
“Thank you Bruno ….just beautiful . Indeed, why can’t we?”
I guess it would be too dull, Paulo.
Years back I was complaining to a friend about all the unnecessary melodrama that a girlfriend was putting me through at the time, and his retort was “Drama? I LOVE drama!”. Broke the mood nicely. Now I realize years later that women are simply programmed that way.
godless heathen
May 27th, 2010
10:23 pm
I grew up in rural Georgia and witnessed plenty of racism but there wasn’t much diversity. There were white Protestants and black Protestants. I had cousins out west and all talked about how bad Indians were. I didn’t have anything against Indians, I thought Mingo and Tonto were pretty cool. Then I went out in the world and I heard people saw awful things about Jewish folks and Catholic folks. I didn’t see anything wrong with Jewish or Catholic folks, the ones I met seemed ok to me. And in college I got to know some homosexuals and they seemed to be ok too. I admit that I have prejudices, everyone does, but I try my best to judge individuals by there actions, not their group membership.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:26 pm
And BRUNO I never said you for all your thirty years couldn’t speak of things Southern in any way, shape or form. All I said is that it’s necessary to know where you’re coming from…you can talk about Jews or Indians, too, but that don’t mean you are going to see it from the same perspective. I’ve lived with a Red man for 35 years, but there are still plenty of things I don’t understand about him and his views just the same as he doesn’t understand plenty of things about my Jewish views…there is a point even with us where the other is an outsider…
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:26 pm
Here’s one more for you, Paulo, from the Master himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj0zGxDxXVM
Background guitar work courtesy of Neil Schon.
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:28 pm
“there is a point even with us where the other is an outsider…”
In my case, I’m even an outsider to myself……
Scout
May 27th, 2010
10:29 pm
godless heathen:
You may not understand this fully ………….but to this day I go out of my way to be extra kind, helpful, open a door, etc., etc. to elderly black ladies.
As I kid (we couldn’t afford one) I would often be at a friend’s house and the “maid” would cook us lunch, dinner, etc. I know they weren’t treated or paid that well even then. Also, my wife was practicly raised by their family maid. She was the disciplinarian, made sure the school work was done, made sure she was dressed properly, in bed on time, etc.
We owe them a lot.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:35 pm
godless
“I admit I have prejudices…”
Would that more of us would say that. It simply means to prejudge and we all fall into that trap, be it for good or for bad or just plain neutral. I have biases. I try not to have bigotries, but that doesn’t mean I’m successful. A Yankee friend of mine once “accused” me of being prejudiced against Northerners. Unmentionable said, “oh, no he’s not. Prejudice requires some forethought. He’s out and out bigoted there. No forethought whatsoever!”
But let me ask this…I’m a Jew…I’m supposed to automatically trust the goyim? I think not. I can very easily understand why a black doesn’t automatically trust me and treats me with prejudice until s/he gets to know me. They’d be a fool not to.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
10:35 pm
Bruno
Hopefully this will get you to that post.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/05/22/to-don-blankenship-just-the-cost-of-doing-coal-business/comment-page-5/#comment-309261
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:37 pm
Steve Winwood understands, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K99y0ajhFns&feature=PlayList&p=E244AB3420B60056&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=18
So jo, you gonna make it an all-nighter tonight, tomorrow being your last day at work for the summer?
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:38 pm
Bruno
“In my case, I’m even an outsider to myself……”
And that’s a good thing.
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:40 pm
Awesome, HD!
I can’t locate the family tree recently that a relative completed a few years back, but I believe the first date was around 1800. Pennsylvania farmers from Germany.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
10:41 pm
BTW: I’m getting all of my gas at BP now.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:41 pm
Bruno
I’m beginning to f*g out…tomorrow is the last day of regular schedule (I’ve got a ton of work left to do on my own time)…the all nighters are coming, though! The night crew always gets at its most interesting just as I have to cash it in…
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
10:47 pm
When I begin to f*g out, I smoke a f*g with the f*g next door. Always perks me up.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:52 pm
Great-great-great grandpappu
Jacob Moser, served in the Revolutionary War entering with Weltner’s German Battalion and leaving as a captain with Harmar’s Sixth German Regiment of the Maryland Troops.
A German speaking regiment…down to my Grandfather’s generation they spoke, read, and were educated in German…funny think, though, they were French in origin and were run out of France by the great whatever grandpappy on Granny’s side, Guillaume de Nogaret, when Jews were fleeced along with the Cathars and Templars and went running to Switzerland…ole Guillaume’s mother was a Jew and his father a Cathar…and, 700 years down the line, in the north hills of Mississippi, the descendent of the one met and married the descendent of the other and lived together for 63 years until death did they part…full circle it is…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 27th, 2010
10:53 pm
Bruno
I have several connections to the Pennsylvania Germans. They had all left and come south by the post-colonial period and some before. I have 12 direct Revolutionary War ancestors that I know of, 9 or 10 or which are DAR certified. If you count uncles and cousins, I don’t know how many it would be.
Some were the ones I mentioned there, some were Over Mountain Boys, some were part of the Georgia Line and some were South Carolina troops. They were spread out but they’d all found their way south by 1800 or so.
I think basically we’ve been run out of almost everywhere at some time or another.
Guess I better call it a night, too.
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
10:58 pm
Bruno
My mother always called cigarettes f*gs. She wasn’t a smoker, but ever so often she would have a smoke. One night when a bunch of my friends were over she knocked on the door and said, “let me have a f*g and don’t try to tell me y’all don’t have any in there!”
md
May 27th, 2010
10:58 pm
getalife,
What is your take on the immigrants that are denied entry because others have jumped in line in front of them? Why should they take a back seat?
godless heathen
May 27th, 2010
10:59 pm
Scout: We had a maid that came in once a week to iron clothes. I never wanted to ride along when the folks took her home. It me feel bad to see the shack that she lived in. Her daughter was in my class at school, until she got pregnant and followed in her mother’s footsteps.
Josef: The point I tried to make in my previous post (and I think you got it.) was that we don’t like things that are unfamiliar to us. Yea, it’s no wonder that black people think that we are all out to get them. I’ve had several black employees that I could never gain trust from. They weren’t prejudice, they just didn’t like white m_____ f_____s .
josef nix
May 27th, 2010
11:00 pm
Well, g’night…enjoyed it…
Bruno
May 27th, 2010
11:01 pm
Later, guys.
GUts-R-US
May 27th, 2010
11:04 pm
josef,
Given that race is pretty much the topic of the thread, I cannot think of a more appropriate time to “bring it up” with another blogger that has not, based on my observations, explained his dislike of our president in any other terms. Then again, perhaps you have noted my raising this issue at other less appropriate times or that I have broached this issue at an inappropriate time or perhaps there is something else that I am missing. Or not.
RB from Gwinnett
May 27th, 2010
11:10 pm
“How many of you out there in managment had to play the “quota” game with hirings and promotions?”
I have. Quite a few times actually. I’ve been told “you have to make it work” with a black credit manager who was completely pathetic at his job. I’ve been told “if you don’t have any qualified black candidates, you aren’t looking hard enough”. And my favorite, “you’re a white male under 40 and I can fire you any time I want”.
My family came from Scotland in the 30’s and had nothing to do with slavery in this country. I don’t owe the black community anything more than the respect due a fellow man and I’m sick and tired of you liberals calling me a racist simply because I’m white and conservative.
Jay, I don’t recall you bringing up the “guard dogs and fire hoses” ad from worthless Shirley when Reed was running. Maybe that double standard will look good on your resume’ as you drive the AJC out of business with this crap you pass off as journalism.
Scout
May 27th, 2010
11:22 pm
What does Obama mean by accountability?
He holds those under him “accountable” and fires at least some of them for not being so. Then he turns around and says he is ultimately accountable but then he does not resign?
What’s with that? Are you accountable or not ?
Scout
May 27th, 2010
11:23 pm
RB:
Amen !
ken
May 28th, 2010
12:29 am
Senator Byrd KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Scout
May 28th, 2010
1:05 am
Headline: “House Votes to Repeal ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ as Vote Nears in Senate.
House’s 234-194 Vote Follows 16-12 Senate Armed Services Committee Vote to Repeal Law After Pentagon Review.”
A house divided and soon a military divided ……………………..
Michael
May 28th, 2010
1:27 am
SFD,
Maybe you can explain the Atlanta City Council, (may have been Fulton) from about 2 years ago where they said that voting for a White, Republican woman would bring back the dog attacks and firehoses for the Black Community!
Tom Degan
May 28th, 2010
4:31 am
Why would he go on Rachel Maddow’s MSNBC program earlier this week and imply that he would not have supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had he been there to vote on it. Did he really believe that there would be any possible political gain by doing something as reckless and as silly as that?
The answer is – Yes he did – and here’s the really sad part: He was probably correct to believe there would be a substantial political payoff in the long run for making such an egregiously ignorant remark. Just take a look around you….
The political landscape of this once-great nation is more tarnished than at any time in the last half century. The right wing media, with FOX Noise in the lead, has created from scratch an industry whose whole purpose is to mine racial fears against the first African American president in American history. For many years – right up until the moment Barack Obama took the oath of office – racism in America was, for the most part, covert. On January 20, 2009 it became – in too many corners of this country to count – overt.
This is what we have become. Rand Paul is merely a nasty reflection of it.
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com
Tom Degan
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 28th, 2010
6:11 am
Aahhh, oceanfront room at the Sheraton in Va Beach, the seas are angry but oil free, tis one of the joys of the productive class.
Just sayin….
larry
May 28th, 2010
6:55 am
@ Tom, I could not figure that out either. Maybe he went on Dr. Maddow’s show because that is where he announced his canidacy and he figured she would treat him with softball questions. But he should have kn own better, especially with what he had said to various media outlets before the interview.
GUts-R-US
May 28th, 2010
7:07 am
I wonder if Scout thought Bush should have ever resigned.
A CONSERVATIVE
May 28th, 2010
7:24 am
JAY………YOU LIBERALS have rewritten the history of the Civil Rights era….IT WAS southern DEMOCRATs who created JIM CROW laws…& force segregation…..YOU ALWAYS LIE ABOUT THIS HISTORY..YOU LIE…YOU LIE
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
7:27 am
oh, my … mr. conservative seems to need to start his day with decaf …
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
7:37 am
By Pro Libertate————–
Melissa Harris-Lacewell, an associate professor at Princeton and self-appointed watchdog of the “radical right,” makes that point with the eager earnestness of someone who assumes that her political opponents aren’t listening.
According to Harris-Lacewell, the 1960s civil rights movement was valuable because it was a tool to expand and consolidate federal power.
That CRA, it should be remembered, was enacted by a government that was in the early stages of its war of aggression against Vietnam — a conflict in which, as Stokely Carmichael aptly put it, “white people [drafted] black people to make war on yellow people [supposedly] to defend land stolen from red people.” The government in charge of enforcing that Act today is slaughtering “people of color” in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and (lest we forget) Detroit, and looking for an excuse to inflict its lethal humanitarianism on Iran and North Korea.
Jason T
May 28th, 2010
7:49 am
Jay
No comment on Sestak? Believe there’s more to the Sestak situation than this Rand Paul “non-issue”.
Jay
May 28th, 2010
7:51 am
I had a whole post on Sestak two posts ago, Jason.
Jason T
May 28th, 2010
7:55 am
Jay
You don’t find it “odd”, that it takes so long for Obama to answer the questions about Sestak’s “allegations”?
matt
May 28th, 2010
8:22 am
Looks like you’ve hit the nonsense button here. Scraping the barrel for something.
It’s like this – Rand believes in the 1st amendment and property rights. He believes that people can decide for themselves as adults, not told what to do as children. This only applies to private, not public.
Things like affirmative action should be attacked, not rand
williebkind
May 28th, 2010
8:28 am
I wonder if Morrus meant by stale thinking that refers ot people who have values and beliefs that does not change. Hmmm in that case I guess I am guilty of stale thinking. I have observed that if you are against affirmative action or just one aspect of it then you are against the entire civil rights bill. Now thats is stale thinking by the progressive liberals–dont you think.
Scout
May 28th, 2010
8:40 am
Jason T:
It’s growing legs ………. be patient !
GUts-R-US :
I thought about him resigning over the 2nd Gulf War “tactical” mess and his stand on immigration. Would you have wanted Cheney?
P.S.
Everyone remember to buy BP gas !!!
Michael Smith
May 28th, 2010
9:23 am
Bookman wrote:
As I’ve tried to make clear, I believed Senate candidate Rand Paul when he insisted that his (now-retracted) opposition to the Civil Rights Act was based on strict libertarian principles rather than racism. On a purely intellectual level, you can make a valid if unconvincing argument to that effect.
In other words, you cannot logically refute his position, so you choose, instead, to use an appeal to emotion — in this case, it’s smear-by-association. Since Paul’s comments superficial resemble others that you claim are racists, Paul’s, too, must be racist. Analyzed logically, we see that this is nothing more than the fallacy of ad hominem, which has become the left’s sole “argument” these days.
There is a reason why today’s leftists and “progressives” always resort to fallacious arguments.
The reason is that their two cherished ideas — socialism (in some shape, form or fashion) as a domestic policy and pacifism as an international policy — were thoroughly refuted by the events of the 20th century.
Socialism did not bring prosperity to the masses as its advocates claimed it would — rather, in places where it was practiced fully and consistently, it brought mass death by starvation to the masses. See, for instance, the histories of the U.S.S.R., communist China, North Korea, Cuba, etc.
Likewise, pacifism did not bring about world peace as was promised by its advocates — instead, it invited the horrific aggressions of two world wars and one “cold war” which saw the deaths of millions of innocents and the enslavement of still millions more under communism.
Thus, with their two beloved ideas so thoroughly discredited and debunked — but their irrational hatred of capitalism and freedom fully intact — the left is reduced to lame fallacies like ad hominem
Such “arguments“ is all today‘s left has to offer. That’s why a guy like
Bookman will try to milk this dust-up over Rand Paul’s remarks for as many columns as possible. He has no logical arguments FOR his positions, so he is reduced to arguing AGAINST the character of his opponents. It’s a sign of complete intellectual bankruptcy.
norris hall
May 28th, 2010
1:31 pm
Rand Paul hopes to appeal to the angry white voter.
First he states that White Restaurant owners should have the right to refuse to serve black people if they want to.
Now he’s saying we need to repeal the 14th amendment which gave black slaves and their children automatic citizenship at a time 150 years ago when blacks were not considered by many to be non citizens.
Only this time he is applying the law to Mexican children of illegal aliens…most of whom have lived here all their lives are totally American in language, education, culture and dress.
He intends to take citizens and create a subclass of outcasts.
M
May 28th, 2010
3:35 pm
Jay,
You need to brush up on the facts leading up to the Civil Rights Act of ‘64. The Civil Rights Act came at a time when there were deep problems in the south. In many places, blacks were not able to grab a bite to eat merely because of the color of their skin. White business owners were prohibited by local Jim Crow laws from serving blacks.
The Jim Crow laws came about because some white business owners decided they want to be inclusive and serve all individuals regardless of their skin color. In response, the segregationist business owners lobbied for the Jim Crow laws to keep them competitive without having to integrate.
Local and state governments were predominantly responsible for taking the south so long to end segreation. But the Civil Rights Act, while federal, employs the same kind of liberty-depriving and unconstitutional mentality as the Jim Crow laws had done. What was never attempted, and what I believe is best, is to simply remove the laws barring business owners to integrate. It would obviously work, since Jim Crow was necessaryt to help segregationist businesses to compete.
It’s because of idiots like you that I can’t discern between racist and non-racist business owners. I am unable to boycott non-inclusive businesses and reward inclusive businesses. Racism should be out in the open where it belongs as opposed to being swept under the rug. The major problem today stems from Aversive racism is a subtle bi-product of your notion that only government can bring morality to the masses.
Trevor
May 28th, 2010
8:09 pm
Keep it up, keep calling the Tea Party and the Libertarians racist. It will just alienate more independents like I who am sick and tired of being called racist because I don’t buy into Obama’s socialist policies and don’t want to see America go down the drain. And yes massive spending on social programs as well as war will get us there. thanks again progressives! Keep it up!
Michael
May 28th, 2010
9:21 pm
Truth Hurts,
Is it really your position that it is the Federal Government who are constantly killing people in Detroit and not the gangs? Last I saw the overwhelming video evidence points to the citizens of Detroit as the creators of this violence and not the Feds!
1 Boring Old Man » naive…
May 29th, 2010
9:42 pm
[...] on Saturday 29 May 2010 How Rand Paul’s libertarian streak ran afoul of history Atlanta Journal Constitution by Jay Bookman May 27, [...]
Stickit2theman
May 30th, 2010
1:21 am
Im against private discrimination, but also against affirmative action.
Private discrimination is wrong and should not be allowed.
Affirmative Action makes the faulty assumption that if a business or a college doesn’t have a proportionate amount of each race therefore it must have been the business or school’s fault and that it must be discriminating. Disproportionate is evidence of discrimination but doesn’t show who is discriminating. Minority majority schools(before college) often face discrimination from state budgets and then students dont do as good leading to less chance in college or business. So you might be an employer or be in charge of accepting new students and not discriminate and still get less minorities because the government discriminates against them in its budgeting.
The only real way to address discrimination is to address it throughout our society. The state makes laws all the time and then exempts itself. Even Congressmen have immunity for discrimination for pages and other staff they hire. That should stop and then we should have a law that governments are not allowed to practice racial discrimination in budgeting.
Jim McClarin
May 30th, 2010
9:19 am
It’s important to note that the Civil Rights Act was never on Rand Paul’s horizon as an issue, nor did he bring it up in his interviews. In every case his comments were in response to interviewers.
It was first brought up by a newspaper editorial board during an endorsement interview.
Next his opponent claimed that Rand wanted to overturn the CRA, a position he had never taken.
Next, he was grilled on the subject by an NPR host, followed by repeated questions on the topic on the Rachel Maddow show.
In these interviews Dr. Paul expressed his support for civil rights, saying he would have marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. and would denounce any racial discrimination he became aware of in his community or elsewhere. He was clearly aware the interviewers were trying for a “gotcha” quote to discredit him, the tea party movement, and the Republican Party.
Indeed the spin from these interviews is that Paul harbors extremist, racist views,not an intellectual curiosity about the imbalance between property rights and civil rights.
In American politics there is no room for the intellectual examination of orthodoxies because of the way it will be spun by political opponents, including those in the media. This is unfortunate because it reduces political discourse to scripted sound bytes. Don’t we deserve better?
Art Sheppard
May 31st, 2010
12:45 pm
Dr. Rand Paul vs. Dr. Martin L. King
Dr. Rand Paul stands in stark contrast to Dr. Martin Luther King. Dr. Paul believes that every person not only has the, “right,” to be racist but they also have the right to inflict their beliefs on anyone they choose. He doesn’t seem to understand that even though we have rights to free speech, we don’t have the right to scream, “Fire!” in a crowded theater. He forgets or chooses to forget that in this country the only people who have suffered under his belief system are people of color. Except for white males, everyone else have had to struggle mightily to achieve their rights. I wonder if Dr. Paul would hold the same views if he (all his life) was considered a second class citizen and kicked out of ethnic restaurants or movie theaters simply because he was white. Dr. King believed that all people are created equal and he dedicated and sacrificed his life championing this cause. I met Dr. King when I was a teenager in a chance one on one meeting while I was demonstrating and picketing for the right to work in a Supermarket that heretofore only hired white teenagers. I’ll never forget the words that Dr. King said to me and I speak of this meeting in my book, “Talking Penny.”
Shame, Dr. Paul, shame.
GI Ct
May 31st, 2010
6:11 pm
Ron Paul as president would do more for black people than Obama. Libertarianism is for all people.
Ron Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8S8N2OG7sU