When human technology escapes human control
It takes some pretty amazing technology to stick a pipe a mile beneath the ocean, then drill another three or four miles into the Earth’s crust in search of oil. Until recently, we were told that the technology was so good that chances of something major going wrong were tiny.
Yet something did go wrong. The pipe in question has broken, and it has come as a shock to learn that it is beyond our capabilities to fix it. Thanks to incomplete mastery of our own technology, millions of gallons of oil now threaten the beauty and ecology of the Gulf.
As Lewis Mumford once wrote, when you give a 10-year-old a stick of dynamite, you don’t make him more powerful. You make him more dangerous.
Last week, as oil continued to spew from that pipe, scientists in Washington announced a major breakthrough in another area of technology. J. Craig Venter and his team announced creation of synthetic life, in this case a man-made bacteria with a chromosome designed by computer and then “built from four bottles of chemicals.”
In his announcement, Venter acknowledged the ethical concerns involved. But he pointed out that throughout his work, he has sought and heeded the advice of bioethics experts. According to Venter, those experts conclude that “there is a slight increase in the potential for harm, but there is an exponential increase in the potential benefit to society.”
For example, microbes could be designed to digest vast amounts of oil, in effect using technology to correct technology’s failure. Even better, Venter’s firm is working to engineer a species of algae that can convert the sun’s energy into a form of gasoline. Among those funding that work is BP, owner of the Deepwater Horizon rig.
One of the concerns in creating new life forms is how to trace them should they be released “into the wild.” Venter’s team addressed that issue by putting nonworking code into the bacteria’s DNA as special identifiers.
One of those “watermarks” installed by Venter is a quote from the late Richard Feynman, a famed physicist:
“What I cannot build, I cannot understand.”
To Venter, who is driven by a need to comprehend the mysteries of life, the relevance of that quote is obvious. But the sentiment is dangerous.
We humans understood the Deepwater Horizon well — we built it. What we didn’t understand was how it would behave in deep sea conditions where it was beyond our power to fix it.
Likewise, Wall Street thought it understood the complex global economy. It just didn’t account for how it would be operated in real life by humans whose judgment was clouded by greed.
Every day, we build ever more complex technologies that defy full understanding even of their creators. Many, like the Deepwater Horizon rig, may have a very low probability of failure, but a very high consequence if failure comes. In that kind of system, you have to get it right every single day, day after day, without fail. Thousands of rigs have pumped oil from the Gulf for decades, but all it has taken is one mistake to bring tragedy.
In pursuit of that inhuman level of perfection, we install systems and systems of systems, which themselves become incredibly complex and capable of going wrong in ways difficult to imagine beforehand. They also give us a false sense of confidence and mastery.
Nobody knew that better than Feynman, whose fame broadened after he diagnosed the cause of NASA’s Challenger shuttle disaster. The problem, he discovered, was “management’s fantastic faith in the machinery” they had built and their failure to account for the stresses of the real world.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled,” Feynman wrote.
I’d feel better if Venter had built that expression of humility into his creation, literally as well as figuratively.
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296 comments Add your comment
Gale
May 25th, 2010
10:51 am
This rant is from the wonderful writers at Woot. It is off topic, but quite funny, IMO
Hang Up
And Drive
Hey, so you’ve got yourself a Southwing Hands-Free Bluetooth Car Kit. That’s great. Now you can keep both hands on the wheel, instead of fumbling with your phone as you sail down the highway paying no heed to those of us around you.
It does voice dialing, too, so you don’t have to let go of the steering wheel during that process. Although knowing you, you’ll probably decide this leaves your hands free to do your mascara or something. It’s really terrifying sharing the road with you, you know that, right?
What am I saying? Of course you don’t know that. You’re barely aware other motorists even exist. It’d be far too much to expect you to imagine we have anxieties about your unpredictable swerving. Or that we actually ascribe meaning to turn signals and even use them to communicate. That would blow your mind. Our cars are vehicles we drive, see. Yours is more like a wheeled smoking lounge where you hang out with friends and listen to music while hurtling around at dangerously high speeds.
Here’s a crazy idea: After you get used to driving with your hands on the wheel instead of your phone, maybe you could try it with your mind on the road instead of whatever stupid, inconsequential “conversation” you decided to have with your girlfriend at work not because you had information to exchange with her, but because a ten-minute drive is too much for your chihuahua-like attention span. I’M GOING 80 MILES AN HOUR! THIS IS BORING, I’M GONNA CALL JEN!
It’s just a suggestion. Mull it over.
Hey, oops! It’s, uh, sort of conventional to pass on the left, sweetheart.
jm
May 25th, 2010
10:51 am
AI should be another topic of conversation under this same banner. See Discover Magazine’s recent issue for more.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
10:52 am
Rightwing Troll :
Why do you think the Bush Administration shut down that Chicago “Quid Pro Quo” case against that knucklehead governor when they did?
Answer: Because they were very, very worried that President-Elect Obama was just about to get himself on tape for an indictable/impeachable offense. Bush just didnt’ want the country to go throught that so in my opinion he had it shut down early.
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
10:52 am
Why didn’t we just let the economy fail so thomas could be happy.
N-GA
May 25th, 2010
10:53 am
Soothsayer – I did read it. It’s not exactly “light” reading. I do like his analysis of globalization. Capital does readily move to the next opportunity, but we’re running out of opportunities. So what’s next? Anarchy and chaos?
My problem with him is not with his analysis, but with his failure to be more honest about the causes. He even suggests that the government can control interest rates. They certainly influence interest rates, but ultimately the cost of capital is driven by supply and demand. Supply may be artificial (print more money), but that can only have a temporary affect on rates because then inflation has to appear.
So while I do agree with almost everythingn he says, I don’t see him suggesting any way out. And I fear that ultimately deflation like we’ve never known will be the consequence of our folly. And at some point those with real skills (doctors, metalworkers, farmers) will thrive whilst others suffer.
@@
May 25th, 2010
10:54 am
Which is why I’ve called some on the board “dangerous” – you know the ones who assume they know what we all think. To me, they are no different than the Taliban.
Well, hey…I’ve graduated from dangerous to b*tch and now Taliban.
Odd! I pretty sure it’s the Taliban who thinks of women as b*tches.
Whatever makes you happy.
thomas
May 25th, 2010
10:55 am
Scouting,
Would not have made me happy, but would you care to tell me the difference between these two disaters?
Or is it not important the economical effect this will have upon the Gulf region, and possibly the nation?
Or does that not “jive” with your political views?
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
10:55 am
Does @@ deserve a demotion.
@@
May 25th, 2010
10:55 am
‘m mmmmmm…mmm…mmmmmmm
thomas
May 25th, 2010
10:56 am
the taliban has directly behind the illegal deaths of people.
Has anyone on here posting ever killed anyone illegally?
If not the comparrison doesn’t work
Gale
May 25th, 2010
10:58 am
I thought the Taliban thought of women as chattel?
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
10:59 am
Taliban…The HeMan Woman Haters Club.
Matilda
May 25th, 2010
11:02 am
Gale,
I don’t always agree with you, but I like your common-sense mindset. Have you ever considered running for office? We’ve known for decades that sheep would eat the kudzu, but yet, solutions simply aren’t implemented. Didn’t think about the unwanted fish – pet food connection, but what a great idea! I also wondered why massive amounts of cut hay aren’t being dumped on the oil (instead of chemicals), but then realized it’s because giant corporations won’t reap obscene profits from the widespread use of cut hay. I know I’m a scientific amateur at best, but couldn’t oil-soaked hay be scooped up and compressed into fuel bricks? Hmmm…
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
11:02 am
Would not have made me happy
That’s good. So, why do you want the economy to fail then.
thomas
May 25th, 2010
11:03 am
Scouting,
All questions and no answers……..
Again why Bailout Financial institutions because fo a disaster, but not other companies because of a disaster?
Both entities caused the disaster they are suffereing from.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:05 am
AJC Headline !!
“If BP can’t stop it, then what?”
Jay …………. what say ye?
thomas
May 25th, 2010
11:05 am
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
11:02 am
Don’t want economy to fail, never came close to saying so. Se you interpreted that based on a bias of yours, as there was no evidence to support your theory.
Why are you placing the banking portion of the economy as being more important than entire states and regions main economic resource?
Or do you just not care about the people of the Gulf region?
Doggone/GA
May 25th, 2010
11:05 am
“I also wondered why massive amounts of cut hay aren’t being dumped on the oil (instead of chemicals), but then realized it’s because giant corporations won’t reap obscene profits from the widespread use of cut hay.”
And there may not BE massive amounts of hay to use. Hay is grown for livestock feed…and judging from comments made by my horse owning friends, it isn’t always easy enough to get. Take a “massive amount” off the market now for the oil, and we may be dealing with a massive die-off of cattle next winter due to lack of hay to feed them.
Normal
May 25th, 2010
11:07 am
Thomas,
Seems to me it’s a matter of responsibility. BP has made the mess. so they must clean it up, even if it breaks them. Same for the financial crisis…They were responsible, so let them clean up that mess too.
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
11:09 am
Why does only thomas get to ask questions and why doesn’t thomas know about the Oil Spill Act of 1990 to cover oil spill but insufficient laws in place to cover financial meltdown in manner that not cause second great depression. Things got bad real fast for a while. So bad that money market fund broke the buck. So bad that FDIC $100,000 coverage limit was not enough. So bad that… best not tell you just how bad.
thomas
May 25th, 2010
11:12 am
Normal
May 25th, 2010
11:07 am
But we didn’t allow financial to clean up their mess. They caused it, with similar circumstances….
Gov’t oversite that was in place was inadequate….. the players took advantage of situation and took some risk to make an extra buck….. then gov. bailed them out…….. but not this time with the oil.
Why is BP held responsible but others are given money to fix their mess avoiding responsibility?
Matilda
May 25th, 2010
11:12 am
Doggone, yes I thought of that too. Perhaps dried kudzu would work.
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
11:18 am
Or the homeless…we appear to have an indefite amount of homeless that want to work but cant find jobs. They could be given one of those yellow suits, a couple of floatees, tossed overboard and picked up within the hour.
Scrap off the oil from their suits and again overboard they go. $10.00 and hour and 3 squares a day. For those with a crack habit we could supply a pipe and 4 crack rocks, daily.
laissez faire
May 25th, 2010
11:19 am
Ludites Unite! Technology is dangerous! We must live less enjoyable more rustic lives for the good of the planet!
Of course, that doesn’t mean me..I gotta JET to Cannes!
ciao,
Al Gore
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:27 am
md,
you got him. by the short hairs possibly. and you are quite correct that it only takes one. If this Sestak thing is for real, then it’s #4 on the list of impeachable offenses according to folks here. I want to know what the first three items are, that’s all…
Am I suprised a politician got caught playing politics? no. Do I feel shortchanged by the “change”? absolutely. Were there any other alternatives for even the remotest possibility of “change” after seeing the “stay the course” crowd in action for 8 years? Not at all. Has my life been changed for better or worse for it all? not even.
Doggone/GA
May 25th, 2010
11:27 am
“Perhaps dried kudzu would work.”
Now there’s a thought!
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:28 am
Here is some really neat things that the Mineral Management Services are up to with our tax money.
This is from the “Children’s” page. Good thing that this agency is so Diiiiveeeeeerse.
Archaeologists, Marine Biologists, Oceanographers, and more! Read about the diversity of careers and people in the Minerals Management Service.
Women in Engineering
A collection of 2 page classroom activity sheets for elementary students that may be printed for distribution. These include:
* Ballast & Stability Lab Experiment
* What is Crude Oil
* Word Puzzle
* Offshore Oil & Gas Platform
* Maze
* Rigs as Reefs
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/lagniapp/lagniapp.html
G. Allen Baum
May 25th, 2010
11:28 am
There is a major disconnect between technology and politics that enables disasters like that in the Gulf. Politicians have no job requirements other than to be “popular”. Very few politicians have a science backgound and, thus, when it comes to legistation concerning technology they rely on special interest groups to inform them. Objective input seems to be seldom sought or ignored, most often leading to weak or ridiculous laws. In addition to term limits I think politicians should have some expertise in one of the major sciences. I know that isn’t going to happen, so at a minimum, how about having all state and feneral legislators (and perhaps school administrators) take those tests mandated for kids in elementary school. Anyone who fails is kicked out of office.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:29 am
“OFF TOPIC #1″
“How long can a people remain a People when its leaders side with its foes?”
Andrew McCarthy
@@
May 25th, 2010
11:31 am
Later, while kids off the bayou wanted “a great big Cadillac, with a TV antenna in the back,” his friends in Pointe a la Hache dreamed of “a Lefitte skiff and some oyster beds. And if I got a Chevy pickup, too, I’d be in hog heaven.”
Wesley Matherne, 70, retired after 50 years in the oil business. He also worked as a fisherman. Now one of his sons is a commercial fisherman, another works for an oil company. Households like that can be found all over this part of Louisiana.
So while people are angered by the spill and BP’s inability to fix it, the last thing they want is for the oil industry to go away. Too many people’s livelihoods depend on it. Too many fishermen depend on it.
“Without oil and diesel, we can’t do fishing,” Matherne said. “We need both of them.”
Talk to anybody and what you’ll also hear is this: Despite the fear and uncertainty and growing anger, they’re staying.
“I can’t imagine trying to live somewhere else,” said Battle, the oysterman in Pointe a la Hache. “This is home. You can’t turn tail on home.”
‘Ya gotta love “backward rednecks”….not just now, but always. They are people from whom we call all learn.
Strength in the face of adversity.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/24/gulf.coast.cultural.impact/?hpt=C1
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:32 am
Approxiamently 4025 hoops to jump through and 12,000 pages in order to get a well drilling permit.
We definetly need more. This is the overveiw.
Wells
Prior to conducting drilling operations, the operator is required, pursuant to 30 CFR 250.414, to submit and obtain approval for an Application for Permit to Drill (APD) (Form MMS-123). The lessee is required to take precautions to keep all exploratory well drilling under control at all times. The APD is filed by the lessee/operator along with or following submission of the EP or DOCD and supporting information. The APD requires detailed information about the drilling program for evaluation with respect to operational safety and pollution-prevention measures. Approval of an APD requires an MMS-approved EP or DOCD, and receipt or presumption of CZM consistency concurrence. The approved APD constitutes the drilling permit. The APD is reviewed for conformance with the requirements of 30 CFR 250.414 and other engineering considerations. In addition, other information–including project layout at a scale of 24,000:1, design criteria for well control and casing, specifications for blowout preventors, and a mud program–is required. The lessee must use the best available and safest technology in order to enhance the evaluation of abnormal pressure conditions and to minimize the potential for uncontrolled well flow. Specific requirements for sundry notices for well workovers, completions, and abandonments are detailed in Subparts D-G of the revised regulations.
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:33 am
“Answer: Because they were very, very worried that President-Elect Obama was just about to get himself on tape for an indictable/impeachable offense. Bush just didnt’ want the country to go throught that so in my opinion he had it shut down early.”
Scout,
I respectfully disagree w/your assesment. I don’t think turd blossom, cheney and company would’ve shut it down even if GWB told them to. I don’t see GWB as a particularly spiteful person, so I do agree with your contention that GWB would take that course of action.
FrankLeeDarling
May 25th, 2010
11:33 am
“How long can a people remain a People when its leaders side with its foes?”
you mean like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bush,_House_of_Saud
@@
May 25th, 2010
11:34 am
Whoops! Making that call on a can.
….can all learn.
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:38 am
About the Minerals Management Service
Not only do the taxpayers pay thousands of incompetant goverment worker salaries, but the MMS actually fleeces the industry for over 5 BILLION dollars.
And the lazy workers STILLL “pencil whip” their documentation. I want my money back.
The Minerals Management Service (MMS), a bureau in the U.S. Department of the Interior, is the federal agency that manages the nation’s natural gas, oil and other mineral resources on the outer continental shelf (OCS). The agency also collects, accounts for and disburses more than $5 billion per year in revenues from federal offshore mineral leases and from onshore mineral leases on federal and Indian lands.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:38 am
Rightwing Troll:
I hear you but any good prosecutor knows in that type of case you ALWAYS let the deal go down ………. the money exchange hands, the appointment made, etc. You ALWAYS want the jury to be able to see the fraud was completed.
I’m telling you this one was shut down early. There was absoutley NO REASON to end it when the did other than worry about Obama getting himself on tape trying to convince the Governor to do the deed. In their opinion, that would have been catastrophic for the country to have the first black President in that siutation (who knows what the country might have gone through).
Personally, I am disgusted they didn’t let it run its course.
TGT
May 25th, 2010
11:39 am
Likewise, the man-made global warming alarmists thought they understood the complex global climate. They just didn’t account for how it actually operates in real life and instead allowed humans, whose judgment was clouded by greed, to mislead them.
Also, I notice that this “synthetic life” required Intelligent Design. GASP!!! Just imagine the intelligence that is/was required for “real life.”
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:40 am
Well Scout,
They say the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime, so maybe you’ve been smarter than all the rest us this whole time… credit where credit’s due and all that.
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:42 am
So who will be thrown under the bus on this? Who will be Obama’s Libby?
thomas
May 25th, 2010
11:42 am
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
11:09 am
So from what I am seeing your answer as to why the gov bailed out the financial sector is because YOU think it was just too bad for us to overcome?
You obviously have no insight into the economy of the Gulf Coast region, and the mass amount of citizens this will eventually effect. if you did you would understand the risk of this contributing to what YOU call the 2nd Great depression (lil drama) and how the industries that are located and the revenue brought to this region is then spread across the country.
The taxes collected from the Gulf regions are what provides majority of the collected taxes for many of the States in the region. With states already suffering through furlough and teacher layoffs do you not see the impact this will have on Education? what about police, firemen…
And again I ask, why do you feel that the financial sector should not have to be accountable, but BP should be solely accounatble..
BTW from your oil spill act of 1990 you keep touting so loudly…..
“33 U.S.C. §2702 et seq. (1990)
The Oil Pollution Act (OPA) of 1990 streamlined and strengthened EPA’s ability to prevent and respond to catastrophic oil spills. A trust fund financed by a tax on oil is available to clean up spills when the responsible party is incapable or unwilling to do so. The OPA requires oil storage facilities and vessels to submit to the Federal government plans detailing how they will respond to large discharges. EPA has published regulations for aboveground storage facilities; the Coast Guard has done so for oil tankers. The OPA also requires the development of Area Contingency Plans to prepare and plan for oil spill response on a regional scale.”
http://www.epa.gov/lawsregs/laws/opa.html
So what does that 2nd sentance say again…..
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:44 am
I still want those OTHER 3 impeachable offenses though… :0
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:45 am
One of four finalists for the MMS’ coveted SAFE award. It has since been postponed. Getting safety awards due to pencil whipping breeds complancency.
But of course, it is BP’s fault. Probably not diverse enough.
High OCS Activity
BP Exploration & Production Inc.
Eni US Operating Co.
Exxon Mobil Corp.
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
11:45 am
“Here is some really neat things that the Mineral Management Services are up to with our tax money.”
Our President Albatross wants to split this mis-managed waste ridden agency into a 3 headed hydra. What a wonderul idea.
USinUK
May 25th, 2010
11:46 am
Normal – 10:27 – No.
this has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions …
meanwhile, I get out of my least favorite monthly meeting and am greeted with this gem: “Responding to morons is like talking to rocks, so I’ll pass on that offer”
huzzah!!! that’s right, Bud, you just sit there on your little rocking chair and tell us how much better YOU would have handled things if YOU’D-a been in charge …
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:47 am
Rightwing Troll :
It the truth be known there are probably many.
Also, don’t forget all of that happened when he was President-Elect. If it had happened before the election, Bush might have let him hang himself. However, he just didn’t want to be sitting on that Inaugural dais with a new President under indictment/impeachment from his administration.
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:48 am
For some laughs, here is the MMS code of ethics page.
Federal worke’rs respective codes of ethics are ALWAYS funny.
http://www.mms.gov/adm/PFD/Code_of_Ethics_01_29_09.pdf
theyeshaveit
May 25th, 2010
11:49 am
Normal said, “When I read this, my first thought was, “this is truly the beginning of the End Times”. Man is creating life and God has become irrelevant…The Church’s greatest fear is coming true…”
Maybe God is that great chemist in the sky who put us all together, but then there was this other chemist who made God, and then there was this other chemist…
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:51 am
Scout, You get my point on that… (hopefully). If you got a hand THAT good why check? Go all in. At this point you’ve allegedly got 4 of a kind, can’t get a hand any better than that.
I’m not sold on your line of reasoning, but I’m not discounting it either.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:54 am
Rightwing Troll:
As I said …….. Bush did not want to see the country go through what would probably have been mass riots if not worse. It’s just that simple if his administration would have indicted the first black President-Elect.
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
11:54 am
The Hip Hop Mayor finally will get some street cred!! Im so HAPPY for him!
Ex-Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick Headed to Prison
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/23657675/detail.html?hpt=T2
Scout
May 25th, 2010
11:54 am
Out on patrol now ……….. back later.
theyeshaveit
May 25th, 2010
11:55 am
TGT said, Also, I notice that this “synthetic life” required Intelligent Design. GASP!!! Just imagine the intelligence that is/was required for “real life.”
The “intelligent design” buzz word, aye. The cell was designed in a computer with a little help from man.
Southern Comfort
May 25th, 2010
11:56 am
thomas
I’m one who believes that BP should be held responsible. I’ve also stated here on several occassions that I was against the bailouts of the financial institutions. Capitalism does not work when profits are privatized and risks are socialized. The companies do not have a stake at being operationally efficient or safe if they know that the clean-up of any mess they create will be handled by the government.
I understand the implied logic to the bailouts, but I would have been just as happy had the economy collapsed. I would still be alive, and my worthless money would have been just as worthless as those whose greed caused the whole problem.
If BP didn’t have a contingency plan in place to deal with this type of problem, why in the hell were they drilling anyway? Does a steel worker lay beams on the 50th story of a high-rise without a safety rope? If it were me, if a company didn’t have a viable contingency plan for most problems, they wouldn’t get the drilling permit. I know there are some problems that can’t be foreseen, but oil spills have happened before, and they will happen again.
Rightwing Troll
May 25th, 2010
11:56 am
Scout, That makes it kinda racist… I’d like to think if it transpired it was because of the reverance to the office and the fact that GWB was pretty much ready to fade off into the sunset and would’ve rather avoided another dustup or scandal (even if it was a scandal that worked to his party’s advantage).
jt
May 25th, 2010
11:59 am
Good thing that there is no “pencil whipping” in our Federal Dept of HEALTH and Human services or Federal TSA………………………………..
pat
May 25th, 2010
12:00 pm
Venter’s did not create a synthetic bacteria, he took already existing bacteria and changed it’s DNA. That is not the same thing as creating sythetic life. It’s life with synthetic genetic code.
The problem isn’t with the technology, it’s with the will of BP to stop it. They want to stop it a certain way. If it were an attitude of stopping it by any means necessary they would have stemmed or stopped the flow all together. They could have shoved a drill bit into to he pipe. They could have drilled into that well and pumped the oil into tankers so that the flow would slow….
BP has my ire. I fully believe that could have and should have stopped this nightmare by now.
Accidents happen, but BP has not stepped up to the plate and I hope it drives them out of business.
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:01 pm
MMS Director S. Elizabeth Birnbaum Biography
The director.
A LAWYER……………………..A Harvard Lawyer.
Southern Comfort
May 25th, 2010
12:03 pm
Geez jt, I guess there’s no pencil whipping in private industry either like Enron, Worldcom, Arthur Andersen, or Madoff…………..
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:03 pm
Secretary of the Interior
Ken Salazar
The big boss.
A LAWYER. At least he wasn’t from Haaaaarvard.
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:04 pm
Southern Comfort
Enron, Worldcom, Arthur Andersen, or Madoff…………..doesn’t hold a gun to my head and make me subsidize their corruption and incompetence.
Although they do make the government do this for them from time to time.
USinUK
May 25th, 2010
12:05 pm
jt – he was also director of the colorado department of natural resources …
(I just loooooooove people who b*tch and moan about lawyers – they’re usually the first ones who want to sue)
thomas
May 25th, 2010
12:05 pm
Southern Comfort
May 25th, 2010
11:56 am
Totally agree with every thing you said.
According to the law though the government should have made sure they had a contingency plan. Someone dropped the ball other than BP ( they had already fumbled in the wide open field, but the gov. just stepped over the ball)
My intial point was the vast amount of hypocricy from those who are for BP paying for and doing all of the cleanup and maybe fixing the leak, but some of those same people were also champions of the bailouts?
But you notice how many responses there have been…… seems for some the logic of you made the mess you fix it only applies to oil companies and not financial institutions (who many of the same people say are evil, wierd).
FYI, look for Scouting for answers to now claim you wish for the economy to fail…
Normal
May 25th, 2010
12:07 pm
Thomas,
Sorry for the late reply…
“Why is BP held responsible but others are given money to fix their mess avoiding responsibility?”
Different circumstances and lessons learned from the financial debacle…
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:07 pm
Chris Oynes
Associate Director, Offshore Energy and Minerals Management
Number THREE in the chain of command.
A LAWYER. His claim to fame???????? “Mr. Oynes has more than 30 years of Federal Government experience in a wide range of energy matters, including 13 years in Washington, D.C., with MMS in various capacities.”"”"”
Sheeeeesh.
USinUK
May 25th, 2010
12:10 pm
U.S. Minerals Management Service employees, some of whom were assigned to inspect offshore drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico, accepted gifts from oil and gas companies and used government computers to view pornography, the Interior Department said.
Interior Secretary Ken Salazar ordered a broader investigation today into ethics violations at the agency that oversees offshore oil drilling after a report found lapses by staff in the Lake Charles, Louisiana, office between 2000 and 2008.
The investigation by the department’s inspector general followed a 2008 probe of the agency that found illegal drug use and inappropriate sexual relationships between staff and industry contacts in an MMS office in Lakewood, Colorado.
“This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between some elements of MMS and the oil and gas industry,” Salazar said in a statement.
Several MMS staffers named in the report have resigned, been terminated or referred for prosecution and those still with the agency were placed on administrative leave, according to the statement. Salazar said he’s ordered an investigation into whether ethics violations persisted after he put in place new rules last year.
The inspector general also will investigate whether MMS staff failed to adequately inspect or enforce safety regulations aboard the Deepwater Horizon, the Transocean Ltd. drilling rig leased by BP Plc, Salazar said in the statement. The rig sank after an April 20 explosion and fire caused by a well blowout, resulting in the deaths of 11 workers and an ongoing oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico.
http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-25/u-s-mineral-agency-employees-took-gifts-viewed-porn-investigation-finds.html
for all your complaining, jt, it sounds like Salazar is trying to clean up one helluva mess in the department
Southern Comfort
May 25th, 2010
12:10 pm
No need to hold a gun to your head for subsidies when they already have their hand in your wallet. It wasn’t just some fluke of evolution that employers dropped pensions and 401(k)’s are the norm now.
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:11 pm
Elmer P. (Bud) Danenberger
Elmer P. (Bud) DanenbergerChief, Office of Offshore Regulatory Programs, Offshore Minerals Management
Last but not least in the chain of command.
Not a lawyer and actually has a decent resume. His only problem is that he has worked for the Feds for over 40 years. Lobotomy bait. His head will probably be the first to roll.
Paulo977
May 25th, 2010
12:13 pm
Yes Bud Wiser
How did the genius Bush help over Katrina? Oh I guess he was reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to another group of adoring kids!!
thomas
May 25th, 2010
12:14 pm
Normal
May 25th, 2010
12:07 pm
I see the circumstances are similar……..
-Insuffiecient oversight from the Gov.
-preferencial treatment given to friends of elected officials and gov. employees
-Risky actions taken to make a buck
-Unforseen problem comes up
-Oil, (money) hemmorages more it seems everyday
Is oil made to be the bad guy because lets be honest many who have made the argument do not like oil?
What lessons were learned from financial debacle? How do those lessons apply to this oil spill? Are we now saying the bailouts were a bad idea and a RUSH to action?
TGT
May 25th, 2010
12:14 pm
theyeshaveit: And just who designed/programmed the computer?! Or is Darwinian evolution now credited with “creating” technologies as well?! (May as well. It’s just about as likely!)
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:16 pm
Southern Comfort
May 25th, 2010
12:10 pm
No need to hold a gun to your head for subsidies when they already have their hand in your wallet. It wasn’t just some fluke of evolution that employers dropped pensions and 401(k)’s are the norm now.
You are correct Sir. But who or what provides the motivation to save your money in these instruments.
Gotta go, but I feel better now. Most current statists are beyond hope.(something bad happened to them ). Fortunantly, the younger generation is getting a good example of what centralized authority does best.
Corruption.
Normal
May 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
Thomas,
I’m not sure I understand your arguement. Why don’t you think BP is responsible for its mess and the clean up?
LeeH1
May 25th, 2010
12:38 pm
The science and engineering hasn’t failed. It is the managers and bean counters and regulators who failed. The managers wanted to save money by installing cheaper devices, rather than effective ones. The bean counters insist that fudging on safety is cheaper and more profitable to the company. The regulators are reduced in force, reduced in control, and told to let the industry regulate itself.
Had this drill rig been done as it should have been, then this accident may still have happened, but the controls of being able to shut itself off would have been in place and working. See how much profit the oil company has made?
Besides, for BP, the point was not to turn off the oil spill, but how to control it. They want to be able to regain profitability by managing the spill and returning the well to regular operations, not cut it off entirely. That’s one of the reasons why the company won’t say how much oil they took out of the oilwell every day. Because of that silence, we really don’t know how much is spilling out of the well head every day.
The foolish, socialist government is now saying people’s lives, livelyhoods and health are more important than company profits.
As if oil companies have ever owed anything to the public good. After all, that’s why they paid so much to have Bush and Cheney elected- to get the government off their back.
mm
May 25th, 2010
12:42 pm
Ah yes, more wingnut rants about “liberals” hating capitalism.
They’re whining about Obama not getting involved. Once he gets involved, they will start whining about government not being the solution.
No wonder the GOP is turning off voters in droves.
Bosch
May 25th, 2010
12:44 pm
thomas,
Had to step out for a bit – but I’ll chime in to the little discussion about BP and the financial bailouts. I for one, am with SoCo – I don’t think we needed to bail them out as much as we did – and I know there are some who have (convincingly) argued that we had to. Those who know financial matters alot more than I. But I agree with SoCo where in that – if the economy had collapsed, then so be it. Lessons learned. And I like how SoCo wrote that his money would have been just as worthless as everyone elses.
But also with that – it wasn’t just a black and white thing – it wasn’t just the greedy banker types fudging numbers and such – it was the SEC and the Congress Critters turning their heads and passing legislation to encourage this kind of crap – so with that, they too are partly responsible and also we the taxpayers are partly responsible as well.
Same with BP – it was a perfect storm of BP not doing what it should in the name of profit, the MMS not monitoring it and good lord at what they were doing for the past decade (cocaine, sex, bribes, etc.) and the taxpayer – demanding oil. It’s pretty simply, but layered – like Shrek says – like an onion.
So how’s the new thomas jr.?
Bosch
May 25th, 2010
12:46 pm
Make that it’s pretty “simple” – my bad.
Bosch
May 25th, 2010
12:47 pm
“Fortunantly, the younger generation is getting a good example of what centralized authority does best.
Corruption.”
You mean like the Church? Or God?
John Birch
May 25th, 2010
12:50 pm
Columbus wouldn’t have discovered America if he waited for absolute certainty the boats wouldn’t sink. The Curies irradiated themselves to death dealing with something they really didn’t understand, but how many lives have been saved or prolonged through the use of x-rays? Progress and technology are good. It’s a statistical universe, 100% safety and certainty is a luxury we can’t always afford if we’re going to improve the length and quality of life for an ever-increasing world population.
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
12:51 pm
Paulo977
No… Bush was awaiting the elected officials from the State of LA to request Federal assistance. Thats how it works…
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:51 pm
“The regulators are reduced in force, reduced in control, and told to let the industry regulate itself.”
Riiiiiight. One of the 80,000 (thats THOUSAND) personnel who are paid by the taxpayer to protect our enviroment was elsewhere.
At least his WIFE paid her own way.
He left AFTER the oil spill.
“Though his agency was charged with coordinating the federal response to the major oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, Department of the Interior chief of staff Tom Strickland was in the Grand Canyon with his wife last week participating in activities that included white-water rafting, ABC News has learned.”
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
12:55 pm
80,000….darn…that 1600 per State. Seems we are in good hands.
jt
May 25th, 2010
12:55 pm
Oh, I forgot to mention that Tom Strickland was a LAWYER.
I’m otta here.
Normal
May 25th, 2010
12:56 pm
nother Normal funny…
http://punditkitchen.com/2010/05/25/political-pictures-pope-benedict-xvi-dated-choir-boys/
Outhouse GoKart
May 25th, 2010
12:56 pm
Or 1403.5…of course, that depending on the number of ACTUAL States.
PS…The 1403.5 per State is in Obamas USA.
@@
May 25th, 2010
1:09 pm
So this guy’s on Obama’s new investigative panel?
Mr. Reilly is a founding partner of Aqua International Partners LP, a private equity fund that invests in water and renewable energy companies. He’s also a senior adviser to TPG Capital LP, an international investment partnership.
Can he really be THAT objective?
thomas
May 25th, 2010
1:23 pm
Normal
May 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
I do think BP should pay and clean up their mess. I also thought the financial sector should have cleaned up their mess too.
Why do you think the financial sector should get a pass on their responsibility?
Normal
May 25th, 2010
1:28 pm
Thomas,
“Why do you think the financial sector should get a pass on their responsibility?”
Never said that. In reality, I agree with you.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 25th, 2010
1:34 pm
Dow under 10,000. Now that’s Obama change we can believe in. Bend OVER, Here comes MORE change.
@@
May 25th, 2010
1:41 pm
Just read an interesting article over at Discovery Network….”The Impact of Hurricanes on Oil Spills”. Depending on the direction, they can be advantageous or detrimental. A big blow can act to disperse the oil 150 meters down. Some scientists have argued that dispersing oil on the ocean’s surface would diminish the power of a hurricane.
It makes ‘ya wonder….if nature has the ability to correct the wrongs, why don’t they duplicate it? Pack that sucker by layering the same geological materials they drilled thru.
Just a thought.
Michael Smith
May 25th, 2010
2:26 pm
Jay Bookman doesn’t know what he is talking about.
The BP spill is not going to “destroy the ecology of the Gulf”. The Ixtoc I spill that occurred in the 1980s in the Gulf leaked oil at 2 – 3 times the rate this well is leaking and it went on for over 9 months — yet the Gulf survived just fine.
Nor is it true that BP doesn’t know how to fix this leak. They are pursuing several fixes simultaneously, including a “top kill”, a “junk shot” and two relief wells that are being drilled simultaneously. The spill will be stopped, the Gulf will be cleaned up, BP will pay for it all and compensate those who’ve been damaged — and life will go on.
Nor is true, as Bookman claims, that Wall Street “greed” caused the crash. Blaming the crash on greed is like blaming an airplane crash on gravity — greed, like gravity, is always present. It didn’t cause the crash.
The crash was caused by federal housing policy forcing the extension of loans to unqualified borrowers. Essentially, leftists and liberals joined forces in demanding an end to discrimination in lending. And they got it. What followed was the only logical result: a great deal of indiscriminate lending.
The Federal Reserve helped by putting interest rates at record lows, thereby creating a vast wave of cheap new credit. This brought millions of unqualified borrowers into the market and created a huge housing bubble.
These subprime loans were packaged into collateralized debt obligations and were foolishly assigned a “AAA” credit rating by the government-controlled cartel of bond rating agencies. Once rated this way, they were sold to Freddie and Fannie — government-sponsored entities — who now hold some 10 million subprime loans. The loans were also sold to commercial banks, whose capital structures are controlled by the Fed. The Fed implemented the new Basel II accords in 2005, which mandated changes in the capital structure of banks and thereby created a huge demand on the part of the banks for assets rated “AAA” — hence, the banks invested in these CDOs as well.
Then the Federal Reserve brought the whole thing down by causing a spike in interest rates and a corresponding spike in defaults on the subprime mortgages. The rest is history.
The entire mess is a failure of the regulatory regime created and imposed by the federal government. It is another failure of central planning and government regulation. The regulatory regime and the Federal Reserve cooperated in granting the left what it demanded: an end to discrimination in lending. We are now paying the price for the orgy of indiscriminate lending that the federal government brought about.
The notion that the crash is due to deregulation or “Wall Street greed” is pure leftist fantasy dreamed up by the left to explain away another disastrous failure brought on by its policies.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
2:31 pm
Rightwing Troll:
Disagree. Lady Justice is supposed to be blind.
DEWSTARPATH
May 25th, 2010
3:10 pm
Scout:
Lady Justice isn’t supposed to be blind. The blindfold is
an allegorical reference to what is supposed to be the
de-emphasis of image in the dispensation of justice.
Good luck on patrol.
Scouting out answers
May 25th, 2010
3:12 pm
thomas,
I cannot help it if you do not like my answer to your question and I will not change it to something else just so you will like it. I gave you facts. You want fantasy. By the way, why do only you get to ask the questions.
Scout
May 25th, 2010
6:58 pm
DEWSTARPATH:
Close enough for government work.
Stew Day
May 26th, 2010
12:29 am
This is well said. technology over capability and interesting predicament.
np
May 26th, 2010
9:31 am
A beautifully written piece Jay.