The abuse of heavenly prayer for earth-bound politics
Last week, as the Texas Board of Education prepared to finalize controversial new textbook standards, board member Cynthia Dunbar was asked to offer the opening prayer.
Here’s what she said:
“Most gracious heavenly Father. We come before you today, and ask that you grant to us the ability not to be anxious for the future, wisdom and understanding for the day, and hearts of gratitude for our past. As we look to our past to guide us, let us reflect on the convictions of those who have gone before us. I believe that nobody can look to the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses. Whether we look to the first charter of Virginia, or the charter of New England or the Charter of Massachusetts Bay, or the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, the same objective is present: a Christian land governed by Christian principles.”
I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it. Freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under the law, and the reservation of powers to the people. I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country. All this I pray in the name of my lord and savior, Jesus Christ.”
When I came to Georgia 20 years ago, I found the practice of opening almost every governmental meeting with prayer a little startling. I had worked as a journalist in every other section of the country, and had never seen it done so often. Even subcommittee meetings at the state Legislature are often begun with an invitation to pray.
Most of the time, the prayers amount to pleas for wisdom and guidance in decision-making, and only the eager-to-be-offended could find much to criticize. Occasionally, prayer leaders become much more specific and fervent, for example pledging all in attendance to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ in how they vote. That’s more troubling.
You are, after all, speaking to an audience of diverse beliefs, not to a congregation of the same-minded. A citizen should not be compelled to take part in religious activities contrary to his or her beliefs as a price for participating in government. All are supposed to stand on level ground in that setting.
And once in a while, you’ll get somebody who really abuses the privilege and uses the prayer to make explicitly political statements, as Dunbar did last week.
Let’s side aside the political and historical content of Dunbar’s prayer, which is of course highly debatable in its own right. What I find more outrageous is her decision to smuggle that content into the form of a prayer that others in attendance were required to listen to silently, heads bowed, as if in agreement, with no dissent allowed.
She was not using the prayer to talk to God, which ought to be its purpose; she was using it to tell others what God would say to them if He was there.
Personally, I find it highly offensive to watch people place their own political viewpoints into the mouth of God, in effect turning God into their personal sock puppet. Whatever your concept of a Supreme Being, you cheapen it by drafting Him as a megaphone for your own political views, and to do so in that kind of setting.
Government and religion are each very powerful in its own realm, and if allowed to join in mutual purpose they constitute an overpowering force that inevitably, always tries to sweep away all dissenting views. Dunbar speaks fervently about the lessons of the past; the lessons of the past in that regard are distressingly clear, as our Founding Fathers knew from direct and recent experience.
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832 comments Add your comment
Peter
May 24th, 2010
2:23 pm
Hey DoggoneGA…….. What man has written about Jesus, was he “taught” others to pray……and to teach one must do it publicly.
FrankLeeDarling
May 24th, 2010
2:27 pm
Oh I get it md,he’s like those guys at the federal reserve.
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
2:27 pm
“What man has written about Jesus, was he “taught” others to pray……and to teach one must do it publicly.”
and was it impossible for him to live up to his rule by teaching each disciple privately, and then they, in turn, teaching others privately.
It’s an unanswerable conundrum. My personal belief is that Jesus came to point the way back to God, not to provide a road map. But that there are, and always will be, people who want rules…not directions. Which is fine, right up to the moment the rules become more important that the journey’s end.
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
2:29 pm
Amvet…another good one from Ian
Oh father high in heaven — smile down upon your son
whose busy with his money games — his women and his gun.
Oh Jesus save me!
And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three
and made his name in Hollywood
to set the white man free.
Oh Jesus save me!
If Jesus saves — well, He’d better save Himself
from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death.
Oh Jesus save me!
I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon —
His cross was rather bloody —
He could hardly roll His stone.
Oh Jesus save me!
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
2:31 pm
“…funny I saw a billboard on I-75 that read, “God is not a socialist.”
Does one presume he was a
a) fascist
b) anarchist
c) capitalist
d) monarchist
e) enlightened absolutist
f) kleptocratist
g) Allah the above
Liberal Pariah
May 24th, 2010
2:31 pm
As a conservative Christian, I finally found something with which I agree with Doggone. Jesus instruction about praying in public was addressing the hypocrisy of the religious leaders of that day. Had nothing to do with rules for his followers.
Also, Jesus did not have a problem with ‘wealth redistribution’ as long as it was a voluntary act of the individual helping those in need. Jesus’ idea of social justice did not involve the Federal Government.
John Birch
May 24th, 2010
2:31 pm
Anyone that wants to blend religion and politics is potentially dangerous. Anyone with fervent religious beliefs, especially those based on such flimsy evidence as the obviously fictional bible, as also potentially dangerous. What’s harder to believe, the Big Bang oming from nothing, god always was and forever shall be, or Jesus and Christianity is the only true god, and all the other b3eliefs are nonsense!
FrankLeeDarling
May 24th, 2010
2:33 pm
Allah the above ,ha ha I like that one Amvet ,clever.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
2:34 pm
I read recently where Jesus said he was more popular than the Beatles…(Especially that Lennon a__hole!)
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
2:34 pm
g) Allah the above
LOLOL!
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
2:35 pm
“Had nothing to do with rules for his followers.”
It had everything to do with rules for his followers and Jesus gives the reason. When you pray in front of man its for man. When you pray “in secret” it is to God.
Liberal Pariah
May 24th, 2010
2:37 pm
Well John B, if you enjoy living in the Constitutional Republic called the United States of America and enjoy the freedoms it offers, you should be thankful our Founding Fathers pursued the politics they did because of their firmly held Biblical beliefs.
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
2:37 pm
What about when the Cataholics pray inside that box (coffin built for 2) to some guy on the other side…who is that for?
Scooter
May 24th, 2010
2:38 pm
OK,beware cause………….
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=i+am+the+god+of+hellfire&aq=7m
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
2:38 pm
“Jesus’ idea of social justice did not involve the Federal Government.”
I don’t think could necessarily prove that. Jesus spoke first and foremost to people in a time and an economic status where they had NO political power whatsoever. So he taught them how to return to spirituality without them. He did not enjoin his followers to NEVER use a political system to bring about a riteous life. And please note that I said “righteous” not religious.
I do not want anyone’s religion in the political system we have here, but I have no problem with a religious person using their beliefs to bring about the greater social good (not religious good) that we should strive for when commanded to care for the sick, the poor, and the destitute. The Bible constantly refers to “widows and children” because in that day and place they were the least powerful, and the most subject to abuse. They are “stand-ins” for anyone who needs help.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
2:39 pm
I’ve always wondered about these “Christian Principles” upon which this country was believed to be founded. What are these principles and what about them makes them unique to Christianity? Should we allow multiple wives? Should Onanism be legal (that question is for you, Andy)? Should it be a crime to do any work on Sunday? Or is it Saturday?…that part is confusing since the Bible doesn’t mention specific days of the week. What about the origin of the Bible? There was a lot of dissent over what should be part of the Bible….and what should be left out….and how it should be translated…and how it should be interpreted. I mean some Christians think it sinful to dance or drink wine, beer, or spirits.
What exactly are these principles? Were the Catholics the first Christians? Or maybe the Orthodox Christians….or the Copts (aren’t they one and the same?)? How about those KKK people who professed their love of Jesus Christ while condemning Cathoilics, Jews and Blacks?
Personally I wish they would all be taxed and required to undergo retraining in the principles of kindness (helping others), possessions (poverty), killing vs turning the other cheek, tolerance, etc. Either that or get “HYPOCRITE” tattooed on their foreheads.
John Birch
May 24th, 2010
2:39 pm
DannyX – Did god tell you that (after he finished guiding W) or did you just pick that up in bible study?
PTL, Inc.
May 24th, 2010
2:40 pm
I read recently where Jesus said he was more popular than the Beatles…(Especially that Lennon a__hole!)
I also heard that he does Blankfein’s work. Can you believe that!
Liberal Pariah
May 24th, 2010
2:43 pm
The context of Jesus instruction was about hypocrites and their prayers. Matthew 6:5 is the verse before and it puts it in the right context.
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
2:43 pm
TIME FOR ANOTHER THREAD.
Bookman has gone to worrying about a prayer at a meeting in Texas. Big deal! Then all you people who never go to church and trash religion know exactly what should happen there.
Well, I’m for letting the people in Texas do as they wish at meetings. Those of you who are scared to death of prayer in public, relax. Millions of people pray and they will continue to do so. It won’t hurt you non-prayer people one bit. Even if it is done in public!!
If you don’t pray, then forget it. If you are so sensitive a prayer ruins your whole day, take a pill. If you don’t want politician’s personal convictions displayed, then elect robots.
As I have already posted: GET ANOTHER THREAD. This one is much ado about nothing.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
2:45 pm
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
2:27 pm
Well said. See, God can bring people together and normally don’t agree on anything.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
2:45 pm
I have to warn you John Birch. W was able to read a soul by looking into a persons eyes, like he did with Putin. I have a similar gift, I can do it over the Internet. I only need a screen name.
You are evil John Birch!! Evil, evil, evil. You will burn somewhere.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
2:45 pm
that normally don’t*****
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
2:46 pm
First of all….jesus didn’t “SAY anything” as far as anyone can prove. His “story” was written by other humans… HE himself did not author any books or write down any of his own speeches that were handed down to others…nor did he write the bible (again… something was written by several humans after an absurdly loooong game of telephone)… nor can anyone even PROVE that he ever existed. Seems to me his “story” mimics another story that came out of India 1,200 years before his….born to a virgin, on dec. 25th, 12 disciples, baptized… oh it was an “original” story alright.
Anyway….
The “virgin” Mary huh? Seems to me she was some teen who got knocked up by the pimple faced kid who lived in the next hut… when confronted by her father she just stuck with her story saying: “but daddy… I SWEAR I didn’t have sex with anyone”… and the gullible fool bought it. I mean if your own daughter told you something like that…would you BELIEVE her and say….oh ya…. my daughter is pregnant with “gods” child… holy jeeezbus!
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
2:47 pm
Dusty – None of us are “scared” of prayer. It would be more accurate to say that you are “scared” that public prayer would become illegal (kinda like smoking in public).
Public prayer is a lot like second hand smoke….I’m just sayin’
Peter
May 24th, 2010
2:47 pm
Hey Danny X….. Man wrote the Bible……thus man “said or wrote”……. Jesus told us to pray in private.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
2:47 pm
Dusty, the Bible really doesn’t think its proper for a woman to be involved with in these discussions.
I’m sorry you have to go. Its in the Bible.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
2:48 pm
PTL, regarding my quiz, at 2:31, I’d LOVE to believe god is a capitalist, but again, as George Carlin pointed out, he’s just so damned lousy with money.
Very disappointing…
There are so MANY pages of anti-Christian writings by the Founding Fathers, it is indeed a mystery…
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
2:48 pm
“Well said. See, God can bring people together and normally don’t agree on anything”
Thanks Peadawg. It’s why I’m so adamant about keeping religion out of politics, but not keeping religion out of society. But there are too many people around who can’t distinguish the difference.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
2:49 pm
Dusty….I’m going to attend every “public” government meeting I can…and stand out and shout out loud some Muslim prayers… would you not “care” about that either? keep your religion/prayers where it belongs….at your cult’s CHURCH (happily paid for by the cult’s members)…
John Birch
May 24th, 2010
2:51 pm
DannyX – I don’t doubt your psychic abaility for a minute but you’re not dialed in in this one. I can occasionally be brutally direct with people who have the unmitigated gall to claim to know the word of god but otherwise I’m good, good, good. I just don’t need the promise of heaven or the fear of fire and brimstone to live a moral life.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
2:52 pm
I don’t really believe in the Bible. Most people don’t when it comes right down to it. Nobody actually follows it.
The Bible is used mainly as a weapon. There is nothing that says I can’t use the same weapon.
Scooter
May 24th, 2010
2:53 pm
Everyone on this planet came from two white people named Adam and Eve!
For the Bible tells me sooooo.
PTL, Inc.
May 24th, 2010
2:53 pm
I sense Dusty is actually trying to reach out.
Liberal Pariah
May 24th, 2010
2:54 pm
Here goes N-GA. The most secular, rationalistic and self consciously non-Christian of all the Founders of the United States was Thomas Jefferson. In the Declaration of Independence that he authored, Jefferson claimed that ‘all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He goes on to say that human rights are not privileges dispensed or withdrawn at the discretion of the State. Rather they are gifts from God which no prince or potentate, no State or sovereign , may take away. That is the key insight behind the American revolution, not democracy or majority rule– and it is not derived from secular philosophy, but from Biblical religion. Most people that don’t know this were probably educated in Texas in the last 10 years but will learning the correct history soon
All the issues that you throw out are good for discussion but are not relevant to the fact that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles whether you like it or not.
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
2:54 pm
NGA 2:47
Anyone who equates prayer with smoking in public is probably smoking something at home.
Stay in the haze, NGA. You seem to enjoy it.
Gale
May 24th, 2010
2:56 pm
“Then why did Jesus pray in public?”
We don’t really know that. We think we know what other men wrote about what he did. But we don’t even know that their words have been faithfully translated or whether they might have written something other than truth to suit their own purposes.
Gale
May 24th, 2010
2:59 pm
Saul Good @2:46 Best reason for comparative religions yet. Did scripture writers plagiarize?
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
2:59 pm
Liberal Pariah…you do realize, don’t you, that those were not Jefferson’s original words. Those are what came out of discussions and negotiations. Jefferson’s rought draft of the Declarat was worded differently and only contained the word “God” once and did not contain the word “Creator” at all.
http://web.duke.edu/eng169s2/group1/lex3/roughpl.htm
If you want JEFFERSON’S thoughts, read the rough draft…not the finshed document.
JDW
May 24th, 2010
2:59 pm
Liberal Pariah at 2:37
“you should be thankful our Founding Fathers pursued the politics they did because of their firmly held Biblical beliefs.”
Some reality to go with your fiction:
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.” – Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
Every man “ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.” – George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)
“Question with boldness even the existence of a god.” – Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of… Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.”- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
“Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth.” – Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” – James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?” – John Adams
“The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.” – James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)
“As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)
“As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith.” – Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)
Seems to me that the founding fathers had as we all should a great skepticism of religion in general. In particular of those that would attempt to tell the rest of us what “God’s Word” should be.
Splavistic
May 24th, 2010
3:00 pm
I pray that one day the last politician is strung up with the bowels of the last priest. Then, peace will prevail.
Kamchak
May 24th, 2010
3:01 pm
Those of you who are scared to death of prayer in public, relax.
The fear card. Predictable.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:01 pm
LP – Jefferson never could decide whether he was a Christian or a Deist, so don’t lecture me on what he thought or believed. But you can believe this…he owned slaves. Rationalize that!
And you didn’t bother to respond to the Christian Principles issue. Is that because they are not uniquely Christian, that they are shared by all other major religions?
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
3:02 pm
JDW, like I said, pages and pages of anti-Christian sentiments by bunches of the Founding Fathers. A real knee slapper…
“Everyone on this planet came from two white people named Adam and Eve!”
But after them, it must get kinda incestuous, doncha think? (Eeeew.)
Actually Scooter, we’re all African-Americans…(J/k, don’t get your panties in a wad Klanners.)
http://www.anthro4n6.net/lucy/
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
3:02 pm
“I pray that one day the last politician is strung up with the bowels of the last priest. Then, peace will prevail”
Interesting that you invoke “peace” with violence.
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:03 pm
Danny X, 2:47
You have a rib missing. You need to find it. Somebody took it and made something perfect from it. Men have been looking and yearning for it ever since.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:05 pm
Dusty – You chastized me the other day for name-calling. Does that make your 2:54 post hypocritical? I think it does….really.
In your case, it’s not so much what people say, but who says it. That makes you the blog hypocrite. I’ll wait for you to dress down one of your brethren when they resort to name-calling. I think we will be waiting a long, long time.
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
3:05 pm
“he owned slaves. Rationalize that!”
And yet, he said “that all men are created equal and independent” something he knew he would not see in his lifetime, nor something that he knew he, himself, violated. An interesting paradox.
A CONSERVATIVE
May 24th, 2010
3:06 pm
JAY…..To Christians…..prayer is part of everyday life….something you agnostics..& athiests reject..WE REJECT YOU..& your kind….socialists.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
3:07 pm
Ah yes, the PERFECT patriarchal tale.
Woman was born of a man!
Mick
May 24th, 2010
3:07 pm
Holy doubting thomas – ye of little faith, must ye see to believe?
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:08 pm
Saul Good,
You are a bad boy!! But please, go ahead. Shout anything you wish at a public meeting.
Security people have long known how to handle people with diminished abilities and poisonous personalities. Have fun! They say that prison food is not too bad.
Whacks Eloquent
May 24th, 2010
3:08 pm
OK, for those who want to think that all paths lead to God, think on this one a minute – a potential “rant” by Jesus (not that he would have done that-my pastor wrote this!) Not meant to convert anyone, but if you consider yourself Christian, take heed…
“Really?
I am one of many ways to the Father to heaven? Really?
Do you have any idea of what you’re saying when you suggest that my death on the cross is just one of many ways to heaven?
As if there are 10 ways to heaven, and I just added one to the 10? Really?
You mean, I left heaven and set aside my glory, lived inside a human body (talk about claustrophobic when you’re using to being omnipresent!)
I went thru all the stages of human development, 9 months in mom, infancy, toddlers, teen years, and at 30 years revealed that I am from the Father, performed miracles, taught truth, all that leading up to one purpose – to seek and to save eternally lost humanity.
So at the hands of mere human beings, I voluntarily SUFFERED to death. I was flogged forty lashes minus one, physically beat, verbally abused, emotionally humiliated, a crown of thorns, endured the tortures of being nailed to a cross, bled to death, under excruciating pain.
Upon death I went to Lucifer and took the keys of death and Hades, I rose from the dead and was glorified, reinstated to my place of divine glory…
and did all that just to provide a tenth option for you to get to heaven?
Instead of leaving you with nine solid salvation options? Really?
I’m some kind of masochist that enjoys enduring suffering at the hands of sinful mankind, knowing full well that there were many other roads? Really?
You mean, I wouldn’t have paused and said ‘You know, let’s not go thru with this, to give them just one more option’ ?
Oh, no, no, I actually did all of this so you could have just one more option, from the salvation shelf of options. And you believe that? Really?”
A CONSERVATIVE
May 24th, 2010
3:10 pm
Mr. Karl Marx….There is no way to abuse prayer….If it was a Muslim…you would remain silent…You only attack Christian prayers..Jay…YOU ARE A YELLOW COWARD…A COWARD..A COWARD..
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:13 pm
A CONSERVATIVE – (your 3:10)
Would you STFU you intolerant weenie! You are the coward….terrified of anyone who believes differently than you. You who would impose your beliefs on others…just like the Taliban! There isn’t an iota of difference between you and them!
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
3:13 pm
“YOU ARE A YELLOW COWARD…A COWARD..A COWARD..”
“Judge not, lest ye be judged”
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
3:14 pm
The Jefferson Bible is a great book.
He thought most of the Bible is mans perversion. “… they have caused good men to reject the whole in disgust and to view Jesus as an impostor.”
He studied mans influence on the Bible and made his own creation, a fraction of the size of the modern Bible. He removed the angels, resurrection, and all the miracles.
Jefferson did want you to “pray in secret.” That made the cut.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:14 pm
Dusty… so one should go to prison for leading a Muslim prayer at a government meeting? Let me ask….would you be “offended” by attending a government meeting where a Muslim leads a prayer and ends with “Praise Allah”… you’d be perfectly fine with that right?
(be honest now Dusty…you don’t want to break one of the “commandments” and end up in that place that adults scare little children into believing about in order to brainwash them to believe in a fantasy place that excludes NON BELIEVERS called hell).
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
3:16 pm
Looks like the heavy thinker has showed up…
Mick, it ain’t an absolute requirement, but how about the first scintilla of evidence?
Anyone? Anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmxpftPFXZg
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2010
3:16 pm
And yet, he said “that all men are created equal and independent” something he knew he would not see in his lifetime, nor something that he knew he, himself, violated.
DGA, the way I’m reading this, it sounds like you think ol’ TJ figured God was A-OK with human enslavement. Just for the record, Jefferson rather famously wrote of the slave trade:
Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever…
And later:
There is nothing I would not sacrifice to a practicable plan of abolishing every vestige of this moral and political depravity.
More about that here:
http://www.poplarforest.org/jefferson/plantation-life/jeffersons-views
bobo
May 24th, 2010
3:16 pm
if obama is following in gw’s footsteps and giving you even larger doses of gw policy, does obama become the worst prez in history after carter??
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:17 pm
NGA,
What name did I call you? NGA was the only one I mentioned. What you got was my opinion in reply to your opinion. Sorry you did not like it. Was I supposed to like yours??
Bosch
May 24th, 2010
3:17 pm
Whacks,
Many Christians don’t believe all that mythology stuff. Really.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:17 pm
Did you say heavy “thinker” or “drinker”… I mean his name IS Mick after all…;-)
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2010
3:18 pm
Whacks @ 3.08, sorry, but I just can’t see the Prince of Peace being such a whiner.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
3:19 pm
“if obama is following in gw’s footsteps and giving you even larger doses of gw policy, does obama become the worst prez in history after carter??”
DANG bobo! You were doing so damned good until you completely f&cked it up with that last word!
Jeez! ADD much?
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
3:19 pm
“DGA, the way I’m reading this, it sounds like you think ol’ TJ figured God was A-OK with human enslavement.”
Nope, not at all. I think Jefferson wrote “words for the ages” knowing full well that that equality did not exist in his time, and that even he had not to the courage to bring it about in just his own little part of the world. Yet…and yet…he did have the courage to write it as a beacon for the future.
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:20 pm
Ah yes, AMVET,
“Woman was born of man!!! And it still takes two to tango!! A lovely legend indeed.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:22 pm
Well Dusty – You said that I must be smoking something. I guess if I remarked that based upon your post that you must be a drunkard, you would think that was okay.
But you will squirm for a lifetime rather than admit your hypocrisy….all of us know that to be true.
Scout
May 24th, 2010
3:23 pm
Saul Good :
O.K. You’ve been pacing long enough.
Right now unless someone else comes along it’s Newt. But then again, it doesn’t take much to be better than a liberal.
Normal
May 24th, 2010
3:25 pm
This one is much ado about nothing.
On this, I agree with Dusty.
John Birch
May 24th, 2010
3:26 pm
Dog – No paradox, slaves were chattel and therefore not covered under his phrase all men. I think it’s more interesting thathe broke the 6th or 7th (depending on your sect) commandment with the adulterous affair with the chattel.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 24th, 2010
3:27 pm
Well, now I KNOW we’re in Socialism! A judge ordered this Lindsey Lohan to wear a bracelet that can tell if she’s drank any booze! The minute the word got out, everybody down here at the warehouse took off every piece of jewelry. You’ll see a whole bunch of nekkid arms at Billy Bob’s from now on. Who would of ever thunk a watch or bracelet could turn out to be a rat?
So get rid of everything you put on your wrist. The cops will use it against you if you just happen to have a six-pack before heading home.
Have a good night everybody. It looks like closing time in most parts. Burger King can just shut down now that Sister Dusty is blogging.
Whacks Eloquent
May 24th, 2010
3:28 pm
db @ 3:18,
No of course Jesus would not have ranted like that…His actions spoke for themselves. What was included in the hypothetical rant should just be the logical argument that goes thru any “Christian”’s head before they truly claim He is their Savior. What is the point in believing in what Jesus did, if He only did it for a few, and the rest skate by on following a few rules and regs? No, mankind is destitute, and we can do nothing to attain salvation apart from the Savior…
RW-(the original)
May 24th, 2010
3:29 pm
Personally I wish they would all be taxed and required to undergo retraining in the principles of kindness (helping others), possessions (poverty), killing vs turning the other cheek, tolerance, etc.–N-GA 2:39
Would you STFU you intolerant weenie! You are the coward….terrified of anyone who believes differently than you. You who would impose your beliefs on others…just like the Taliban! There isn’t an iota of difference between you and them!–N-GA 3:13
Better put up a new thread Jay B, this dude isn’t very stable to begin with and I think his condition is deteriorating.
/drive by…..
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:30 pm
Of course I KNOW that if you ever answered…that you’d include that last sentence!
So he’s the BEST person to run this country huh? Otay Spanky… SO… I guess we’d go back to the whole “cut corporate taxes and taxes for the WEALTHIEST Americans to fix the economy… because we see how well the Bush tax cuts worked… btw… did those “kick in” yet? How many jobs did those add? Since his way of wanting to “fix” the economy is to give more government handouts and freebies to corps and the wealthy… how is that any different from what Bush did? Did it work? Did we ADD more jobs with them or LOSE more jobs….because last I checked…even with those tax breaks companies both large and small FIRED people…not what was promised…(hiring).
The only one’s who have ever seen the results of “trickle down”…are the poor people and middle class that the rich are pissing all over.
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:31 pm
Saul Good, 3:14
You should try honesty. You posted that you were going to every public meeting you could and SHOUT Muslim prayers. It is not the prayer, poor boy. It is the unruly behavior at a public meeting that will get you in trouble.
You don’t seem to know about good or legal behavior. But disrupting a public meeting is entirely different from leading a meeting with a requested prayer. But you don’t want to know that. You just want to disagree here and stigmatize anyone with a faith.
As I said before, you are a bad boy, Saul Good. Read up on hell. Try “Dante’s Inferno”.
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
3:31 pm
“Dog – No paradox, slaves were chattel and therefore not covered under his phrase all men.”
I don’t agree. I believe he knew that to be true at his time, and in that place…but that it need not be universally true, and not true for all time. And my witness to that is that he did free a few of his slaves. That is not the action of a person who believes without question that slaves cannot be free men/women.
Jefferson was a far more complicated man than children’s history gives him credit for.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:32 pm
RW – I’m not the right wing Christian here. So much like you to spin things. Me….I’m simply throwing their pious BS back in there faces.
There was a time you really had something to say here. Now, not so much.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:33 pm
“their” faces……
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:35 pm
Saul Good – It looks like Dusty couldn’t bring herself to answer your question. Not a surprise.
RW-(the original)
May 24th, 2010
3:35 pm
There was a time you really had something to say here. Now, not so much.
N-GA,
You’ve been telling me that for at least seven years now. Any chance you can buy a new line?
See y’all this evening, somebody has to work and I guess it’s my week.
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:36 pm
RW – Why change the line when it is still true?
Scooter
May 24th, 2010
3:37 pm
But after them, it must get kinda incestuous, doncha think? (Eeeew.)
Yes I do AmVet. That’s why I believe that the Garden of Eden was in Alabama.
I never saw anything in the Bible about Lucy.
That took a long time to read!Whew!
Normal
May 24th, 2010
3:37 pm
John Birch
May 24th, 2010
3:26 pm
By your thinking, he couldn’t have broken any Commandment. She was property, like a vibrator…Geez
fred smith
May 24th, 2010
3:37 pm
Oh Lawd, won’tcha give me a mairsaydees bends – - – -
N-GA
May 24th, 2010
3:39 pm
Fred – I think the words were “…buy me a…..”.
Probably tax deductible thatta way.
Scooter
May 24th, 2010
3:42 pm
Normal
May 24th, 2010
3:25 pm
Scooter’s definition of blog.
Much ado about nothing.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2010
3:43 pm
What is the point in believing in what Jesus did, if He only did it for a few, and the rest skate by on following a few rules and regs?
Well one very practical point is, it makes us better human beings; more centered and purposeful. It also makes us better citizens.
No, mankind is destitute, and we can do nothing to attain salvation apart from the Savior…
I’ll have to part respectful company with you on this. I think God doesn’t provide a universe with intelligent, sentient life to exist on this Earth for what amounts to a nanosecond in the great continuum of history, only to condemn it to eternal damnation forever.
Viewed another way, I don’t think we should require the threat of H-E-double-hockey-sticks not to behave like wankers.
md
May 24th, 2010
3:45 pm
Although I consider myself a professional skeptic, for those that have not watched the History Channel’s latest documentary of the Shroud of Turin, you owe it to yourself to do so. Although it does not prove that it is authentic, every scientist that has inspected the cloth has been stumped as to what made the image. Even today, there is no technology that would duplicate the image.
It is fascinating regardless of belief.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:48 pm
Dusty…you STILL didn’t answer my question:
Would YOU be “OFFENDED” if you went to a school board or government meeting and someone said a prayer where they asked for thanks and strength from Allah, and then ended the prayer with “praise Allah”…. would you be “offended”??? Because in your first post you said that you WOULD not be offended by the prayer she gave in TX.
Simple question.
Would YOU be offended?
josef nix
May 24th, 2010
3:51 pm
JAY
On the other hand you said you saw nothing wrong with Fierce Advocate having invited the hate monger preacher Warren to bless his administration. Yeah, sure, uh-hunh, whatever…
Dusty
May 24th, 2010
3:53 pm
RW,
Hurry back. We need your sensibilities here.
Scout
May 24th, 2010
3:53 pm
Saul Good :
I take Newt back. This is who I want for president :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU7fhIO7DG0&feature=player_embedded
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
3:58 pm
Dante’s Inferno.
The best reason I can think of to know Italian…
questa mi porse tanto di gravezza
con la paura ch’uscia di sua vista,
ch’io perdei la speranza de l’altezza.
(She brought upon me so much heaviness,
With the affright that from her aspect came,
That I the hope relinquished of the height.)
(And Redneck DO NOT go there!)
Scout, the only really good thing I saw in that ad was that Remington rifle. And maybe the horse, but I couldn’t see the teeth!
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:58 pm
Scout: HAHA!!!! I actually thought that was a JOKE at first (I mean it IS a joke right)? Sheeeeesh!
josef nix
May 24th, 2010
3:58 pm
Okay folks, must be sweepstakes week on the blog count. Let’s all do our part to get the Bruin over 700 and see if then he’ll give us a new topic…
Whacks Eloquent
May 24th, 2010
3:59 pm
db @ 3:43,
Following that logic though, the only conclusion would be that Jesus was either a compulsive liar or a complete basketcase…
“Thomas said to him, ‘Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?’
Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” John 14:5-6 (NIV)
“They (the Sanhedrin) all asked, ‘Are you then the Son of God?’ He replied, ‘You are right in saying I am.” Luke 22:70 (NIV)
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
4:00 pm
Dusty ***tap, tap tap of my foot***
Why won’t you answer the question?
Would you be offended?
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2010
4:01 pm
Looks like Jay needed some page hits. I’ll check back tomorrow.