The abuse of heavenly prayer for earth-bound politics
Last week, as the Texas Board of Education prepared to finalize controversial new textbook standards, board member Cynthia Dunbar was asked to offer the opening prayer.
Here’s what she said:
“Most gracious heavenly Father. We come before you today, and ask that you grant to us the ability not to be anxious for the future, wisdom and understanding for the day, and hearts of gratitude for our past. As we look to our past to guide us, let us reflect on the convictions of those who have gone before us. I believe that nobody can look to the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses. Whether we look to the first charter of Virginia, or the charter of New England or the Charter of Massachusetts Bay, or the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, the same objective is present: a Christian land governed by Christian principles.”
I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it. Freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under the law, and the reservation of powers to the people. I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country. All this I pray in the name of my lord and savior, Jesus Christ.”
When I came to Georgia 20 years ago, I found the practice of opening almost every governmental meeting with prayer a little startling. I had worked as a journalist in every other section of the country, and had never seen it done so often. Even subcommittee meetings at the state Legislature are often begun with an invitation to pray.
Most of the time, the prayers amount to pleas for wisdom and guidance in decision-making, and only the eager-to-be-offended could find much to criticize. Occasionally, prayer leaders become much more specific and fervent, for example pledging all in attendance to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ in how they vote. That’s more troubling.
You are, after all, speaking to an audience of diverse beliefs, not to a congregation of the same-minded. A citizen should not be compelled to take part in religious activities contrary to his or her beliefs as a price for participating in government. All are supposed to stand on level ground in that setting.
And once in a while, you’ll get somebody who really abuses the privilege and uses the prayer to make explicitly political statements, as Dunbar did last week.
Let’s side aside the political and historical content of Dunbar’s prayer, which is of course highly debatable in its own right. What I find more outrageous is her decision to smuggle that content into the form of a prayer that others in attendance were required to listen to silently, heads bowed, as if in agreement, with no dissent allowed.
She was not using the prayer to talk to God, which ought to be its purpose; she was using it to tell others what God would say to them if He was there.
Personally, I find it highly offensive to watch people place their own political viewpoints into the mouth of God, in effect turning God into their personal sock puppet. Whatever your concept of a Supreme Being, you cheapen it by drafting Him as a megaphone for your own political views, and to do so in that kind of setting.
Government and religion are each very powerful in its own realm, and if allowed to join in mutual purpose they constitute an overpowering force that inevitably, always tries to sweep away all dissenting views. Dunbar speaks fervently about the lessons of the past; the lessons of the past in that regard are distressingly clear, as our Founding Fathers knew from direct and recent experience.
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832 comments Add your comment
interested observer
May 24th, 2010
9:35 am
My experience is that city councils and boards of education, after opening their meeting with a prayer that the decisions to be made and actions taken reflect the will of God or be pleasing to God, then conduct their business without the least respect for one another, for God, truth or decency.
I’m a Christian, but I would prefer that elected officials not drag God’s name into the business they typically conduct in an ungodly manner.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2010
9:35 am
@@
I’m more inclined to believe that the U.S. was founded more on Masonic principles and beliefs than anything. That’s just my personal view though. A Mason has to believe in “A Supreme Being”, but it doesn’t have to necessarily be the Christian G*d. A lot of people get confused and think Masonry is a religion when it is not. It is, however, made up of men with religious beliefs.
NRB2
May 24th, 2010
9:35 am
holy cow. so, Waco and RR had nothing to do with illegal arms
———————————————-
so called “illegal arms” was just the excuse. It was the government testing the waters, seeing how much they could get away with, as far as executing white conservatives.
Gale
May 24th, 2010
9:35 am
Jay, I 100% agree with you this morning.
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
9:35 am
“This land was In-di-an
It is now Sax-i-an
We took it from them
Would do aga-i-an
From the Redwood forest
To the Gulf Oil Waters
This land was made for overthrow”
Brad Steel
May 24th, 2010
9:36 am
Those weird opening-prayers are as awkward as a Palin interview.
But here in America, we are required to bow our heads and tactically agree to the tyranny of the majority. We breed such sheepish cowards here in the Bible belt.
lovelyliz
May 24th, 2010
9:36 am
Matthew Ch 6
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:36 am
OGK – 9:33 – true, that!
JDW
May 24th, 2010
9:37 am
Peadog at 9:24
So, JDW, look up these verses:
Proverbs 30:17
Exodus 21:15
Leviticus 26:29
Psalm 137:9
You follow those, right?
Of course not Peadog, that is the point after all, I don’t believe the Bible is the word of God, but those that do, and like to pound the rest of us over the head with their agenda, conveniently overlook the things they don’t like.
Either you believe the Bible is the word of God, and that means EVERYTHING or you don’t. You can’t pick and choose the Word of God depending on your agenda.
Rightwing Troll
May 24th, 2010
9:37 am
” It was the government testing the waters, seeing how much they could get away with, as far as executing white conservatives.”
You’re even scarier than Andy…
Jay
May 24th, 2010
9:38 am
He frightens only himself, RT.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:38 am
“It was the government testing the waters, seeing how much they could get away with, as far as executing white conservatives.”
hooray!! here it is, so early on a Monday, and we already have a finalist for the Nutty Comment of the Week.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:38 am
“when you equate praying with your family in the privacy of your own home with praying in public / on the streetcorners.”
Huh? Like I said, cccording to the verse you posted, the privacy of your own home means in your room, door closed, by yourself. So, like I said, it sounds like you’re against saying grace at a dinner table with your family…
Brad Steel
May 24th, 2010
9:39 am
“tacitly”
my proofreader is on holiday.
Normal
May 24th, 2010
9:39 am
Thanksgiving prayer:
Oh Great Spirit, creator of the sun, the moon, the winds, the rain, and the earth from which all life springs, we thank you for the bounty given to us by you through Mother Earth. We cheer that you have found us worthy of your gifts. You fill our hearts.
Del
May 24th, 2010
9:40 am
Don’t see what’s offensive. This country was founded on Christian principals and the evidence is all around us. While it may upset some, the majority in this country, albeit in varying degrees of faith consider themselves Christian believers. This angers the atheists and many secularists but that’s just the way it is and has been for over 200 years.
chuck
May 24th, 2010
9:40 am
USinUK, I love it when people who don’t believe the Bible try to use it to prove a point. The discussion in Mt. 6 is about hypocrisy, not specifically about prayer. This is obviously not a command by Jesus to never pray in public. Jesus prayed OFTEN in the midst of groups of both believers AND unbelievers.
That said, I’m not sure that what she did would be called prayer. It reads much more like a speech rather than a prayer. In spite of that, I’m not going to criticize her for it because what she said was essentially true and should have been expressed, I think it would have been better packaged as a statement rather than a prayer.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
9:41 am
No. It sounds like Jesus is against the dinner grace. What is so hard to understand? Christians have been able to turn homosexuality into an outrageous sin from a couple of obscure Bible quotes. Jesus’ views on public prayer are quite clear. His own words.
Why is it so hard to understand the actual words of Jesus? You do the same thing with divorce. He could not be more clear. These man made waivers.
Thomas Jefferson cut and paste his own Bible. He took out the miracles and myth. The verse on public prayer DID make it into his Bible. Is that what the forefathers wanted? For us all to edit our own Bibles? Did they want public prayer banned? Its in the Bible?
If we were a Christian nation there would be bans on public prayer and divorce.
Be a good American, go edit your Bible. Everyone does it.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:41 am
Del, you don’t forget it upsets liberals as well.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:41 am
Peadawg – “Like I said, cccording to the verse you posted, the privacy of your own home means in your room, door closed, by yourself”
only according to the voices in your head.
the passage is quite clear that it’s referring to not flaunting your piety in public
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
9:43 am
Larry Flynt is more intelligent than all these silly minsters, bishops, reverends, preachers combined.
Larry Flynt vs Orifice Roberts…win by KO.
Larry Flynt vs Jerry Falwell…win by KO, confirmed by US Supreme Crt.
Larry Flynt vs Useless Lowery…win by forfiet.
Larry Flynt vs Jesse Jackson…win by TKO.
Larry Flynt vs Billy Graham…Flynt goes down!!
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:44 am
“the passage is quite clear that it’s referring to not flaunting your piety in public”
Correct, sir. It is also is quite clear about where to pray. In your room, door closed, by yourself.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:45 am
USinUK, go back and read your post. Read verse 6.
LibrulWhiner
May 24th, 2010
9:45 am
I’m FINE with Muslims praying to Allah, Christians and Jews praying to Yaweh, Buddists praying to whomever…… It just seems pretty presumptious to explain to the Creator of the Universe what He had in mind in the 1700s. My guess is He’s probably already already got that information on file.
Saviour of the Universe
May 24th, 2010
9:45 am
You are most certainly welcome Beatrice Palmer.
I do what I can.
Rightwing Troll
May 24th, 2010
9:47 am
Yes peadawg, praying at the dinner table is expressly forbidden.
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
9:47 am
Dear Lord…its another week at work and Susie is being such a bytch today. Lord could you do something for me? Please see to it that Susie gets fired as soon as possible! That would really be cool of you. Thanks a million”.
“Oh PS Lord…I missed my period so could you see to it that Im not pregnant XOXOXO”.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:47 am
Peadawg – given that Christ seemed to have no problem asking for a blessing at the Last Supper, I believe your point is a stupid one.
but do feel free to keep trying to make it.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:49 am
Correct, Rightwing Troll. That’s the point I’m trying to make to USinUK. And also, the point that he’s ignoring verses that he doesn’t agree with…like he accused others of doing. Kinda ironic he’s quoting Bible verses about being a hypocrite….
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:49 am
OGK –
are you rewriting “are you there, god? it’s me, Outhouse”
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:50 am
“And also, the point that he’s ignoring verses that he doesn’t agree with…like he accused others of doing. Kinda ironic he’s quoting Bible verses about being a hypocrite…”
cling, peadawg!!! cling! cling! cling!!! yes, it’s just a straw, but I’m sure it supports you!!!
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:51 am
USinUK, he also had to prayers in public, not just the Last Supper. So, like chuck said, the verse is about hypocrisy. Unless you take it literally word for word, like you’re trying to do.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
9:52 am
Who cares if you anger the liberals. You Christians are making God angry.
He hates your unprovoked wars, in his name. He hates the value you have put on wealth. He can’t stand the way you treat His Christian immigrants from the south. He can’t stand what you are doing to His planet.
What Christian values?
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
9:53 am
“Dear Lord…Somehow I qualified for this home loan and I thank thee. Now lettuce disregard my making $21,000 annually and my house notes are approx $2300 a month, my lease Pontiac is $449 per month, my babys need clothes, diapers etc, however, Lord I KNOW IN MY HEART you want me to have this house so please dont let the loan officer see her mistakes and please dont let me see her mistakes, IF there were any mistakes.
Im sure I cant afford this home, however, its in your plan to provide me this lil Taj Mahal, this little slice of heaven and I accept your gracious gift. Please help me with my 10th grade education to find a better job to pay for what I have stated I would. Im leaving it ALL in your hands dear Lord and in the future if the bank takes away my house please absolve me of all legal liability and also please kill the banker.
In Jesus name we pray, thank you baby jesus…Amen.”
lovelyliz
May 24th, 2010
9:54 am
I’ve asked God and he’s not happy with all of those abusing his name in vain for political and financial gain, would prefer if Christians actually behaved as such.
Normal
May 24th, 2010
9:54 am
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi
JKL2
May 24th, 2010
9:55 am
Good to see all the outrage in Texas. There court system will be blocked for years by all the lawsuits. I’ll bet that when she finished everybody in that room started high-fiving because they knew they were going to get paid. The ACLU probably even set up a booth in the hallway for them. “Lawsuits while you wait”.
Last time I ever go to a Texas Board of Education meeting. Oh yeah, none of were actually there. My bad.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
9:56 am
Peadawg – “USinUK, he also had to prayers in public”
and which prayers would those be??? he TAUGHT in public – including teaching what we now know as the lord’s prayer … but he didn’t make a show of PRAYING in public
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
9:56 am
Do the supermarkets still carry Mahatma Rice?
Peadawg
May 24th, 2010
9:58 am
Got a meeting, but read these USinUK,
“Christ prayed publicly before He raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:41-42) as well as on other occasions. Paul kneeled and prayed with the Ephesian elders before he left them (Acts 20:36).”
I’ll get more if needed.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
9:59 am
BTW Jay, thanks for relating the story of what happened to you.
Sickening. but illustrative of a religion gone horrifically awry under the leadership of monied frauds and TV charlatans…
Jim Bakker conscience
May 24th, 2010
10:01 am
Hey! At least I was not a government employee or politician.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
10:01 am
OGK, you think that is not pc?
In the computer biz hard drives, CD drives etc are set up as masters and slaves…
I always chuckle how that was ever allowed…
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
10:04 am
USinUK…been reading to catch up and it’s pretty obvious that Peadawg never heard the phrase “closeted with”
“to shut up in a private room for a conference, interview, etc”
Peadawg – a “closet” such as that used for storing things (like clothes) is NOT the only kind of “closet” that exists…it also just means a private place, which quite accurately fits praying in your PRIVATE home for family meals, etc.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:04 am
Peadawg – “‘Father, I thank you for having heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I have said this for the sake of the crowd standing here, so that they may believe that you sent me.’” Matthew 11:25-26
yeah. that’s EXACTLY like what was going on in Texas.
JKL2
May 24th, 2010
10:04 am
outhouse- “Dear Lord…Somehow I qualified for this home loan and I thank thee.
Obama will forgive my loan because it’s the evil banks fault I lied on the loan application and those stupid fools were dumb enough to try and help me. God, grant me the common sense to only buy things I can afford and not blame others for spending all my money on worthless crap I don’t need.
Please have the government take all the rich peoples money so I can continue to live like an idiot in your name.
Amen
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:05 am
Doggone – 10:04 – nope. sorry. your living room = Times Square.
oy.
Bosch
May 24th, 2010
10:06 am
Late to the party, not so sure if anyone’s wrote this, but THIS is taking God’s name in vain.
Saviour of the Universe
May 24th, 2010
10:07 am
WASHINGTON—At a time when widespread polling data suggests that a majority of the U.S. populace no longer trusts the federal government, a Pew Research Center report has found that the vast majority of the federal government doesn’t trust the U.S. populace all that much either.
“It makes complete sense for Americans to lose faith in a government that has allowed lobbyists and special interests to take over Washington,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told reporters. “That being said, you could see why Washington might likewise lose faith in a populace that apparently still suspects that its president is a secret Muslim who was not born in the United States.”
Citing the billions of dollars wasted annually on flavored water and boneless buffalo wings, the number of drunk-driving deaths each year, and the lack of citizen accountability for the rise of Kim Kardashian, government officials registered extremely low opinions of the American people overall.
“This is the same American populace that failed to prevent us from deregulating the banks that almost caused a complete economic meltdown last year,” Sen. Jim Bunning (R-KY) said. “Year after year, they elect terrible officials who make terrible decisions on their behalf. The fact that I, Jim Bunning, am a two-term U.S. senator really shows you just how far Americans have gone off the rails.”
“I wouldn’t trust anyone who voted me into office,” he added.
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2010
10:07 am
Separation of Church and State – Because you cannot separate stoopid from either.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:08 am
Hi Bosch!!
Outhouse GoKart
May 24th, 2010
10:09 am
“Dear Lord…last night as I slept I heard a pounding on my door. As I staggered, in my drunken stooper, toward the door I noticed bright lights…I thought you had returned oh Lord, however, such was not the case.
As I peered thru the peephole I noticed “Dog the Bounty Hunter” and he had finally found me. I was very scared at that moment, and found you, Dear Lord, had provided me with a 45 caliber handgun which I began firing.
As the bullets pierced the door and began ripping thru the body of Dog the Bounty Hunter I could hear his screams of agony. I knew it was in your plan that The Dog should be severly wounded and I should make a hasty escape out the back door.
Now, Dear Lord, I find myself sitting in prison and its all your fault. Had you, Dear Lord, not provided me the 45 caliber weapon then none of this wouldve happened. Please dont be mad at me but Im thinking since you have already let me down you probably wont be hearing from me much longer. However, in closing let me ask one final favor from you Oh Lord. Please smite down the Warden…Amen.”
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
10:10 am
“Please have the government take all the rich peoples money so I can continue to live like an idiot in your name.”
Jesus commands rich people to sell all their possessions and give to the poor.
I'm here from the government and I'm here to help
May 24th, 2010
10:10 am
Another one bites the dust….
The celebration at Hawaii Republican Party headquarters was barely 15 minutes old as Charles Djou, the GOP’s newest darling, had already moved past the historic victory and turned his sights toward the general election in November.
Bosch
May 24th, 2010
10:10 am
If Jesus were to come back today, I feel certain he’d slap that woman upside the head.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi USinUK! Finished book 2 – and about 1/3 into book 3. I have to say – I lost sleep Saturday night after finishing book 2.
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
10:10 am
“nope. sorry. your living room = Times Square”
It’s sad, actually. I have been told…in all seriousness…many times that there are NO contradictions in the Bible. I can only stand in awe of some people’s ability to be brainwashed into actually believing something like that.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:11 am
you know … I think this conversation requires an expert:
http://www.bettybowers.com/
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2010
10:14 am
I’m impressed at how the same people who claim that “Liberals” bash Christians are chastising OGK for his posts…
That hasn’t happened yet??? Oops, lemme save that praise for when the hypocracy ends and people get honest with themselves.
See y’all later, and may your personal G*d have mercy on you.
md
May 24th, 2010
10:14 am
“I would hope that there’s one thing that we can do working together as we go forward that speaks to what the Bible tells us about the dignity and worth of every person — and that is on the subject of immigration,” Pelosi said in her remarks. “Because I think the Church is going to have to play a very major role in how we, in how people are treated.”
“The cardinals, the archbishops, the bishops that come to me and say, ‘We want you to pass immigration reform,’” disclosed Pelosi. “And I say, ‘But I want you to speak about it from the pulpit.’”
I see no difference from what Pelosi did and the situation here – the only difference is Jay hasn’t done a column on Nancy, and probably never will.
There are thousands of religions in the world, and every individual “believes” his or hers is the correct one. There is no way of knowing which ones are or are not (including atheism), so it’s high time we act like it.
Respect others believes as one wishes to be respected for their own, or continue down the path of hypocrisy.
Not a soul on this planet has 100% proof of any belief – so quit acting as if you do.
Living your faith is fine, but remember others are doing the same.
How many here would be arguing on the other “side” had this meeting been lead under a muslim prayer?? or by an agnostic??
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:15 am
Bosch – “Finished book 2 – and about 1/3 into book 3. I have to say – I lost sleep Saturday night after finishing book 2.”
I did, too! I had some serious dreams about Will and Lyra and their journey … the thing with Mary gets weird, but it makes sense later on. I’m so glad you’re enjoying the trilogy!
Doggone – “there are NO contradictions in the Bible” … yeah, which is why I’m all about the strict interpretation folks … particularly when you ask them what Christ had to say about homosexuality and all they can cite is Leviticus (although, some will stretch to include Paul)
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
10:17 am
“Jesus commands rich people to sell all their possessions and give to the poor.”
Actually…he only gave that as a direct “command” to one rich person, and the story makes it quite clear that it was given only to show that person that he was not sincere in his desire to follow Jesus. And Jesus was right, that man couldn’t do it.
All throughout the New Testament the injunction, in general, matches the Old Testament injunction that those better-off have an obligation to help the poor, and in particular, the destitute.
If Jesus even MEANT for all rich people to give up all their possessions – to whom would he be speaking when enjoining us to help those at the bottom of the economic scale? Because we would all be poor alike.
JKL2
May 24th, 2010
10:17 am
DannyX- Jesus commands rich people to sell all their possessions and give to the poor.
Yes. It’s a personal choice. He didn’t say for the government to take all their money and hand it out as they see fit. He said they “the individual” should do it.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:19 am
“Because we would all be poor alike”
or we’d all be rich.
of course the bigger question is, when the meek inherit the earth, who will step forward to claim it?
Gale
May 24th, 2010
10:20 am
Somehow I knew it would be hard to keep up with dueling Christians today. I usually try to leave the room or come late when I know there will be a call to prayer before some meeting. I did the same before I became an atheist because I think public prayer is inappropriate. Prayer should be personal.
Gale
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
USinUK, 10:19 cute.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
Religion is the root of ALL evil in this world. Nothing “divides” humans more… each one believing that THEY are the one’s following the “truth” … that believes people to feel as if they are “better” then those who do NOT believe the same version of their human written fable.
Hootinanny Yum Yum
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
Great column Jay.
How about something critical of; say, overpaid school board superintendents in poor performing metro counties? How about three of the four highest paid superintendents being from predominantly Democratic leaning Dekalb, Clayton and Fulton counties? How about the proposed $23B federal assistance/bailout being kicked around in DC?
I would prefer our leaders seek guidance, wisdom and inspiration from pretty much any source. Be it a motivational speaker or group prayer to AmVet’s “mythological” deity.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
“Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
“(although, some will stretch to include Paul)”
But they never quote Paul to prove that Christians should not marry! And it’s possible to read Paul and conclude (and some HAVE) that HE was actually Gay and that is why he was against marriage.
*I* don’t actually draw either conclusion, but I can see how others could.
Bosch
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
Gale,
“Prayer should be personal.”
And silent. In my opinion.
joe
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
Here Here, Cynthia Dunbar. If more of us adopted this same attitude or belief, our country would be better for it. The decline of churches all around a country can be seen in ways without looking at empty pews every Sunday…It can be seen in young men fathering 9 children with 9 different mothers (Former Denver Bronco Travis Henry), it can be seen in single parent households, it can be seen in decline of legit marriages and in the rise of divorce, it can be seen in overcrowded prisons, it can be seen in the rise of babies born to teenage mothers, it can be seen in increases in drug use and most of all, it can be seen in the secularization of our society as Obama and Pelosi push their socialist propaganda into our law making and judicial appointments.
For the way it should be, one only need to look at our currency, In God We Trust, and poignant song, God Bless America.
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2010
10:22 am
I have faith in the power of the water. The water heals. It is good. It is worthy of the fighting over. But first, one must have been given a sign. A sign from above that one is indeed entitled to the fight over the water. We shall call that sign dehydration that is brought on by extreme drought and it shall appear to us as seemingly endless days of clear blue sky.
@@
May 24th, 2010
10:24 am
SoCo:
I know a baited field when I see one. Nobody sets one better than jay.
If jay and his leftists take issue with Dunbar’s prayer, then they can take it up with Obama. I have my beliefs, and he has his…
…drawn to the church. He could engage in community organizing for the poor, but without faith he would always remain “apart and alone.” Faith did not mean no doubt, said Obama, but it did mean hearing God’s spirit beckoning.
I believe — that the greatest division in America today is “not between men and women, or those who reside in so-called red states and those who reside in blue, but between those who attend church regularly and those who don’t.”
Democrats, he said, avoid engaging the substance of religious values by falsely claiming the Constitution bars the subject. Even worse, some far-left liberals paint religious Americans as “fanatical,” rather than as people of faith.
faith “speaks to a hunger that’s deeper than… any particular issue or cause”
But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.
…in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life.
But my journey is part of a larger journey – one shared by all who’ve ever sought to apply the values of their faith to our society. It’s a journey that takes us back to our nation’s founding, when none other than a UCC church inspired the Boston Tea Party and helped bring an Empire to its knees. In the following century, men and women of faith waded into the battles over prison reform and temperance, public education and women’s rights – and above all, abolition.
I will point to my paragraph #5:
Even worse, some far-left liberals paint religious Americans as “fanatical,” rather than as people of faith.
At a “behind the scenes” fundraiser in San Francisco?
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Guilty of what HE puts off on far-left liberals.
Scout
May 24th, 2010
10:24 am
Jay @ your 8:49am
Well, not unexpected typical liberal dodge/twist ignoring the totality of Washington’s prayer, and the fact that not only is “separation of church and state” NOT in the Constitution but the intent of the First Amendment had nothing to do with the court perversion of it as the years have gone by.
Forsaking our Judeo/Christian roots is the cause of this nation’s problems ….. not the solution.
BTW: I love how you like using the word “abuse” except when it applies to liberals.
DoggoneGA
May 24th, 2010
10:24 am
“of course the bigger question is, when the meek inherit the earth, who will step forward to claim it?”
Good one!
Gator Joe
May 24th, 2010
10:25 am
Jay,
Quoting from your article, “Most of the time, the prayers amount to pleas for wisdom and guidance in decision-making.” Juding from the results of thier actions, at least in Texas, this is proof that God doen’t answer the prayers of the self-righteous.
Citizen of the World
May 24th, 2010
10:25 am
I’ve always thought that “using the Lord’s name in vain” was not really about cussing, as most people think, but about using God to try to further your own goals and ambitions, whether it’s to get elected or to justify or get support for a particular course of action. I tend to be leery of politicians who wear their religion on their sleeve for that reason.
Those who wrote our founding documents could have been good, Christian people, but their use of the Lord’s name in their documents and speeches/prayers was probably self-serving. So for us to use their example as justification for doing the same thing is vain upon vain.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
10:25 am
Scout… if that’s so…please tell me this: Out of the 10 commandments: How many are “actual” LAWS?
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
10:26 am
Thanks for the wonderful link USinUK!
Irreverent but a laughfest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw&feature=player_embedded#!
md
May 24th, 2010
10:27 am
I think “moments of silence” are quite appropriate for public situations – then everybody can thank whoever they choose without upsetting their neighbor. Of course there will always be those that will claim that even that is an affront to their right to be vocal.
The reality is – there is no way to make everybody happy, and never will be. Follows the laws of infinity.
AmVet
May 24th, 2010
10:29 am
10 Commandments? Not 15?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
10:30 am
AmVet…it was those last 5 which were the IMPORTANT one’s!
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:30 am
“not only is “separation of church and state” NOT in the Constitution”
“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.” James Madison
the FFs have made their intentions clear to those who bother to LEARN, Scout.
md
May 24th, 2010
10:31 am
“of course the bigger question is, when the meek inherit the earth, who will step forward to claim it?”
The least meek, and the cycle will continue from there.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:31 am
md – 10:27 … TESTIFY!
SAWB
May 24th, 2010
10:31 am
“Government and religion are each very powerful in its own realm, and if allowed to join in mutual purpose they constitute an overpowering force that inevitably, always tries to sweep away all dissenting views. Dunbar speaks fervently about the lessons of the past; the lessons of the past in that regard are distressingly clear, as our Founding Fathers knew from direct and recent experience.”
Just like you liberals want to sweep away any dissenting view, or belittle it, or make fun of people for Christian views?
Jay, I know you libs try your hardest to change and re-write history as much as you can, especially when it comes to Jesus Christ. I also know that our orignal constition has been distorted by lawyers and people like you. Answer this….What is the real reason the founding fathers gave us freedom of religion? Was it truly to keep religion out of state? or was it really trying to keep the state out of religion? I think deep down inside you know the answer but you libs have perverted it. Just like you libs have perverted everything else.
PTL, Inc.
May 24th, 2010
10:31 am
Oh Scout! What’s the punishment for breaking one or more of the Ten Commandments. The answer can be yours for a few donations.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2010
10:32 am
“Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Hard but not impossible. A meat grinder, a food processor, a syringe—eventually you’ll get that camel through the eye of a needle.
It’d probably be easier to just give away all your stuff, though.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:33 am
md – it’ll be like the ending of Sparticus, but different … “HE’S the least meek” … “no, THIS GUY is the least meek” … “no! it’s that guy over there!”
Jay
May 24th, 2010
10:33 am
It was to keep the state out of religion, SAWB.
DannyX
May 24th, 2010
10:33 am
Scout, where did Jesus ever give you a waiver that allows you to kill people?
Atlantan
May 24th, 2010
10:33 am
…but Democrats campaigning from the pulpit is ok
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:34 am
dB – if you’re looking to unload your digital SLR, I’m happy to help you to heaven …
Scout
May 24th, 2010
10:34 am
Saul Good:
They are ALL God’s laws and that lasts for eternity. I don’t worry near as much about man made laws.
“We should obey God rather than men.”
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:34 am
“…but Democrats campaigning from the pulpit is ok”
nope. IOOKIYAR.
USinUK
May 24th, 2010
10:35 am
““We should obey God rather than men.””
woohoo!!! he didn’t say ANYthing about speed limits!!!
RW-(the original)
May 24th, 2010
10:35 am
Hello day shift and other assorted curmudgeons that stay here 24/7.
We should really try to better coordinate our preaching threads and music threads
Enjoy your day, the forrest beckons.
PTL, Inc.
May 24th, 2010
10:37 am
“We should obey God rather than men.”
And what did God tell us to do. The answer can be yours for a small series of donations.
SAWB
May 24th, 2010
10:37 am
Jay, good answer, but many have come to believe and distort that it was to keep religion out of the state.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
10:38 am
Scout…it was MEN who “created” YOUR god (and all other gods) in the first place.