The abuse of heavenly prayer for earth-bound politics

Last week, as the Texas Board of Education prepared to finalize controversial new textbook standards, board member Cynthia Dunbar was asked to offer the opening prayer.

Here’s what she said:

“Most gracious heavenly Father. We come before you today, and ask that you grant to us the ability not to be anxious for the future, wisdom and understanding for the day, and hearts of gratitude for our past. As we look to our past to guide us, let us reflect on the convictions of those who have gone before us. I believe that nobody can look to the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses. Whether we look to the first charter of Virginia, or the charter of New England or the Charter of Massachusetts Bay, or the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, the same objective is present: a Christian land governed by Christian principles.”

I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it. Freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under the law, and the reservation of powers to the people. I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country. All this I pray in the name of my lord and savior, Jesus Christ.”

When I came to Georgia 20 years ago, I found the practice of opening almost every governmental meeting with prayer a little startling. I had worked as a journalist in every other section of the country, and had never seen it done so often. Even subcommittee meetings at the state Legislature are often begun with an invitation to pray.

Most of the time, the prayers amount to pleas for wisdom and guidance in decision-making, and only the eager-to-be-offended could find much to criticize. Occasionally, prayer leaders become much more specific and fervent, for example pledging all in attendance to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ in how they vote. That’s more troubling.

You are, after all, speaking to an audience of diverse beliefs, not to a congregation of the same-minded. A citizen should not be compelled to take part in religious activities contrary to his or her beliefs as a price for participating in government. All are supposed to stand on level ground in that setting.

And once in a while, you’ll get somebody who really abuses the privilege and uses the prayer to make explicitly political statements, as Dunbar did last week.

Let’s side aside the political and historical content of Dunbar’s prayer, which is of course highly debatable in its own right. What I find more outrageous is her decision to smuggle that content into the form of a prayer that others in attendance were required to listen to silently, heads bowed, as if in agreement, with no dissent allowed.

She was not using the prayer to talk to God, which ought to be its purpose; she was using it to tell others what God would say to them if He was there.

Personally, I find it highly offensive to watch people place their own political viewpoints into the mouth of God, in effect turning God into their personal sock puppet. Whatever your concept of a Supreme Being, you cheapen it by drafting Him as a megaphone for your own political views, and to do so in that kind of setting.

Government and religion are each very powerful in its own realm, and if allowed to join in mutual purpose they constitute an overpowering force that inevitably, always tries to sweep away all dissenting views. Dunbar speaks fervently about the lessons of the past; the lessons of the past in that regard are distressingly clear, as our Founding Fathers knew from direct and recent experience.

832 comments Add your comment

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
8:45 am

“And once in a while, you’ll get somebody who really abuses the privilege and uses the prayer to make explicitly political statements,”

Kinda like the stunt pulled by Useless Lowery during Obamas coronation.

Scout

May 24th, 2010
8:45 am

“Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.”

Amen, hallelujah, and pass the ammunition !

Jay:

If you want to see some REAL abuse, how about Washington’s Inaugural Prayer to the nation ?

“Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection; that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the United States at large.

And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”

Rightwing Troll

May 24th, 2010
8:47 am

I pray for the answer to seepage…

Finn McCool

May 24th, 2010
8:47 am

Sad. Scary. We could call this an “instructional prayer”

joan

May 24th, 2010
8:48 am

Well, I believe that prayer has always held a place in our history, but I do think she went a little overboard in her statement about what our founding fathers “thought” and did, so while prayer for guidance was fine, moving into political speech during a prayer is not. I have to believe she did what she felt right, and those listening heard what they wanted to hear, and common sensical people would say there is after all freedom of speech in this country, so even if she had exorted the devil to help with the deliberations she would have been within her rights.

Finn McCool

May 24th, 2010
8:49 am

Oh, wait this is Texas. Nevermind.
You can’t expect much more from such a backward state.

stands for decibels

May 24th, 2010
8:49 am

When I came to Georgia 20 years ago, I found the practice of opening almost every governmental meeting with prayer a little startling.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought it was — well, “startling” wasn’t the term I used, I thought and still think it’s utterly FUBAR.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
8:49 am

What is it exactly about the prayer that you have a problem with? I think it’s an excellent prayer.

“Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.” – Amen!

Jay

May 24th, 2010
8:49 am

Well gee, Scout, so you’ve got George Washington pleading with God to “cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government” in the American people.

Imagine if Barack Obama had offered that prayer.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 24th, 2010
8:50 am

Well, if you can’t use God to make your political point, what good is religion? I mean, our preacher down at the Church of Holiness does it every Sunday and also at prayer meeting on Wednesday. We need more prayer, not less. It’s what makes us Republicans so much holier than the godless librul Democrats.

I was just thinking this a.m. that prayer might could be the answer to this awful oil spill down in the Gulf. We could fly Sonny and his preachers down there and they could get together and pray and I bet the oil would stop gushing lickety-split. It worked for rain and it’ll work for oil. But I think we ought to charge Louisiana for the air fare. I mean, fair is fair.

Have a good day everybody.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
8:50 am

Matthew 6:5-8 (New International Version)

5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

nuff said.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
8:51 am

“…political viewpoints into the mouth of God, in effect turning God into their personal sock puppet.”

This is nothing new…Pastors, ministers, reverends, bishops do this sort of thing everyday…

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
8:53 am

Nice way of picking and choosing verses, USinUK. Responses to public prayer have become VERY predictable. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what she did. Don’t bow your head…nobody’s forcing you to.

Normal

May 24th, 2010
8:56 am

The only thing to do is to outlaw all religion, and all public prayer!

If you want rain, do a rain dance!

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
8:57 am

USinUK, are you also against prayer before a sporting event? Grace at the dinner table at Thanksgiving, or any dinner for that matter?

Chaps

May 24th, 2010
8:57 am

Very true. Putting politics into public prayer is a bad thing to do…. unless you are a black political candidate speaking in a black church during Sunday services, then it’s just fine.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
8:58 am

Normal, go to China or Cuba if you’re going to start spewing that sh*t. And you wonder why y’all are labeled as communists?

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
8:58 am

Peadawg – 8:53 – I la-la-LOVE how people who claim to believe every word the bible says conveniently ignore the things that they don’t like.

if you believe that the gospel is the word of Christ (and that Christ is your savior), then shouldn’t you … you know … pay attention to what he said???

Rightwing Troll

May 24th, 2010
8:58 am

“Picking and choosing” verses that completely support the main contention of the blog post…

Perhaps you can regale us with some verses that support hypocrisy, hyperbole, and partisan pandering in public prayers?

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
8:59 am

Peadawg – “USinUK, are you also against prayer before a sporting event? Grace at the dinner table at Thanksgiving, or any dinner for that matter?”

if players want to pray for their own safety (or the slaughter of the opposing team), then I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with led prayer by a coach.

and do you honestly want to compare a family asking for the blessing of a meal to a government official praying before a public meeting? really and for true???

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:00 am

This sort of thing is done every Sunday morning in every church across the land…ministers, reverends allowing themselves to be Gods mouthpiece.

Now back in the day it may have meant something, however, nowadays any idiot can mail in $19.99 and obtain a theological certificate proclaiming their status as “Nearest my God to Thee” or join some Christian/Muslim magazine club and become nominated for “Most likely to walk in the footsteps of Jesus/MoHammed”…as the case may be.

WhoCares

May 24th, 2010
9:00 am

Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2010
9:00 am

Prayer should be a one-on-one with your personal G*d. I’ll give her some credit. She used the phrase “I believe” during her historical journey. What she believes is true in that it’s her beliefs, but those beliefs do not have to be historically accurate for them to be her heart-felt beliefs.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:00 am

USinUK, yes. Let’s stone our children for being bad. Women should obey their husband. Sure, let’s pay attention to EVERYTHING that the bible says. *rolls eyes*

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:02 am

USinUK
May 24th, 2010
8:59 am

You’re the one that pulled Matthew 6:5-8 out. It was a simple question. According to what you posted, you should be against grace at Thanksgiving dinner as well since it’s not in the closet by yourself. Or, are you conveniently ignoring things you don’t like as well?

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:03 am

Perhaps had she chosen a “Real” minister to pray that may have given her more legitimacy…*Ahem*

larry

May 24th, 2010
9:03 am

Congress (the government) shall not promote one religion . Period. No black or white. No ifs, and, or buts.
If you would would like a theological govenment, look at Iraq, Iran , Saudi Arabia. I dont want government in my church, and i do not want my church in my government. And that includes school.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:05 am

Agreed Larry…and I dont want chocolate on my peanut butter NOR peanut butter on my chocolate….

stands for decibels

May 24th, 2010
9:05 am

if you believe that the gospel is the word of Christ (and that Christ is your savior), then shouldn’t you … you know … pay attention to what he said???

Sigh. UnU, don’t you understand that Pea and Scout worship Republican Jesus?

Totally different guy from that namby-pamby hippie Brother Jesus. Sheesh.

Icarus

May 24th, 2010
9:05 am

It’s a shame you didn’t attend more Republican party meetings in the late 80’s and early 90’s Jay. It’s one thing to hear someone invoke God’s will as a proxy for their own. It’s quite another to have three people try it at the same time with totally different opinions/agendas, each demanding that we listen to them and their direct instructions from God.

As for me, I try to also remember the part of scripture about false prophets as well as money changers in the temple.

And finally, there are a lot of us who are Christian and Republican who are willing to speak out and say that my God is strong enough to overcome political differences, so we’ll let government be government, but I’d prefer not to continue to sully my religion by mixing the two.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:05 am

Peadawg – “Sure, let’s pay attention to EVERYTHING that the bible says. *rolls eyes*”

really? christ said to stone your children??? I must have missed that day in sunday school …

(but thanks for proving my point that there are a lot of people who LOVE to quote the Bible for **some** issues, but totally ignore it for others)

Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2010
9:05 am

Chaps

What about the Christian Right? Should that “Organization” even exist then? Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson, and others have used religion to push a political agenda and the Republican party whole-heartedly embraced it.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. However, don’t attempt to push your beliefs on me. We may not believe in the same thing.

Paul

May 24th, 2010
9:06 am

Jay

Remember the 20% rule…..

“What I find more outrageous is her decision to smuggle that content into the form of a prayer that others in attendance were required to listen to silently, heads bowed, as if in agreement, with no dissent allowed.”

Maybe if they wanted to exhibit good manners. One of ‘em could have opened his or her eyes and sat down. Then when it came time for the discussion, could’ve looked up and said “What’s that, God? You want me to vote how on that resolution. Really? Okay, got it” then gone on addressing the Board.

Nothing like a little timely mockery.

Speaking of which

Finn McCool

May 24th, 2010
8:49 am

Oh, wait this is Texas. Nevermind.
You can’t expect much more from such a backward state.”

Nothing like a continuing demonstration of left-wing prejudice.

Maybe someday the rest of the states will approach this level of backwardness:

(Texas) “far outpaces the 49 other states in wind power, with 9,506 megawatts of generation capacity in place and thousands more humongous, breeze-capturing turbines expected to be erected in West Texas, the Panhandle, South Texas and perhaps even off the Gulf Coast in the coming decade.

The six largest U.S. wind farms all are in Texas. If it were a nation, it would rank sixth among the world’s nearly 200 countries in wind-generation capacity.”

Then this morning I also read about the new mass transit rail lines expected to come on line, connecting Dallas and Ft Worth communities (not one major metroplex, but two) in the next couple of years. In addition to what’s already there.

Backward is good.

Normal

May 24th, 2010
9:07 am

Sure, let’s pay attention to EVERYTHING that the bible says. *rolls eyes*

Isn’t that “Good Christians” are supposed to do? :lol: Stop it, you’re killing me!
BTW, you Christians are sooooo thin skined. Can’t even recognize sarcasm when you read it.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:07 am

Peadawg – “According to what you posted, you should be against grace at Thanksgiving dinner as well since it’s not in the closet by yourself”

nice try … I take it that you have your thanksgiving dinner on street corners out in public???

(5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men)

larry

May 24th, 2010
9:07 am

Well, dont buy Reece’s .

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:07 am

We all need to “Pray more Attention” to these State sponsored religious events.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:07 am

This Friday is also “Prayday”.

Jay

May 24th, 2010
9:08 am

Actually, Peadawg, that’s incorrect.

Several years ago, back when Tom Murphy was still speaker of the Ga. House, I was in the press gallery at the House, a glassed-off room adjoining the back of the House chamber.

It was morning, before the day’s session started, and I was back there alone going through some bills when the minister of the day was introduced. He began his prayer, and the members of the Legislature rose and bowed their heads.

I could hear the minister over the intercom, so I stopped work and bowed my head as well until he was finished.

Later that day, I was accosted by House security and was told that unless I also STOOD for the prayer, I would be barred permanently from the House chamber. I’m sure the order had to come from Murphy himself, although the guard refused to tell me who had issued it.

We got into quite a little yelling match in the hallway and there’s no way the state could have won that battle in court, either on free press or free religion grounds.

But as a journalist, I didn’t want to become the center of what would probably become a very nasty legal battle and news story. So I just stayed out of the press room each morning until after the prayers were said.

In other words, don’t try to tell me that participation isn’t coerced.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:08 am

“However, don’t attempt to push your beliefs on me. We may not believe in the same thing.”

That’s fine. Don’t bow your head. Y’all are getting worked up over nothing this Monday morning. Bad weekend? Who’s forcing you to bow you’re head? The way y’all are whining, it sounds like to need to be going to the police. Not blogging on AJC.com.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:08 am

“I will gladly pray for you thursday for the price of a hamburger today.”

Finn McCool

May 24th, 2010
9:08 am

I don’t think any of us liberals have any problems with people praying in their own houses.

You want government to be run efficiently, more like a business? I’ve never seen anyone in a business begging for guidance or rain from unseen forces. But you conservatives don’t really know what you want.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:09 am

dB – 9:05 – yep … I’m more of a long-haired hippy Jesus / Vatican II gal, myself … but, hey, what do I know … evidently, the sermon on the mount included the phrase “I got mine” in there somewhere but it never made it into our translation …

larry

May 24th, 2010
9:09 am

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. However, don’t attempt to push your beliefs on me. We may not believe in the same thing.

AMEN! SoCo

Mr. Snarky

May 24th, 2010
9:10 am

She should have added “oh, and God please smite my enemies and let me win the pie baking contest because Linda Sue is clearly in league with the Devil, and while I’m at it, please send me a new Ipad for my birthday”.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:10 am

J, you were very lucky. Its a wonder they didnt take you out back for a “laying on of hands”.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:10 am

USinUK @ 9:07
Maybe you should pick this verse from your post instead:
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Do you eat Thanksgiving dinner in your closet by yourself?

Paul

May 24th, 2010
9:12 am

Morning, sfd

When my parents had their 50th anniversary celebration (in Texas) mom asked if I’d offer a prayer before the food. I smiled and said “you mean one commemorating our heritage, like “Oh Mighty Odin, grant us the strength to subdue our enemies, eat of their spoils, take their women and…” She just smiled and said “Don’t get cute. Just say thanks for the food.”

We had a good time.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:12 am

Lettuce Pray.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:12 am

Jay, maybe you should have gone to court, not writing blogs on the AJC. Quit whining. You didn’t do anything about it.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:12 am

Peadawg – “Do you eat Thanksgiving dinner in your closet by yourself?”

nice try, bubba – but the meaning is clear about praying/postureing IN PUBLIC.

but, feel free to keep splitting hairs if it makes you feel all superior and such …

larry

May 24th, 2010
9:13 am

Jay, its a wonder the guard didnt start speaking in tongues. You know, abbalblbaooaalsdoala oa aooa !!!

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:13 am

Paul – 9:12 – always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.

Finn McCool

May 24th, 2010
9:14 am

Who’s forcing you to bow you’re head?

It’s better to nip it in the bud now than see it entered into a bill and have to fight it in the courts.

Scooter

May 24th, 2010
9:14 am

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. However, don’t attempt to push your beliefs on me. We may not believe in the same thing.

Amen SoCo!

stands for decibels

May 24th, 2010
9:14 am

I was accosted by House security and was told that unless I also STOOD for the prayer, I would be barred permanently from the House chamber.

Wow. I’m actually a little shocked.

Sonny

May 24th, 2010
9:14 am

Let us prey.

Jay

May 24th, 2010
9:15 am

Whining, Peadawg?

Having a rough Monday, I see.

Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2010
9:16 am

Peadawg

I’m not worked up at all. I offered my opinion based on the topic. I grew up in the Baptist Church, was baptised, and was a youth speaker for a while. I just don’t completely agree with the whole government function/prayer thing. If prayer is a big part of your life, I don’t think you should negate that just to appease others. No two people are exactly alike, and no two people’s beliefs are exactly alike.

I say a prayer before I begin every shift that I work. I do it in privacy before I join my co-workers. If they wish to join me, they can, but I won’t push my beliefs on the entire shift just because I feel the need to pray.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:16 am

USinUK, according to that verse you posted, the dining room table is considered public, b/c it’s not in your room w/ the door closed, if you take it literally. It sounds like you’re using the verses that sound good to you this time. :) Have a good day sir. You lost this argument.

NRB2

May 24th, 2010
9:16 am

Oh Lord, please keep our eye on the political ball and not let this moment pass without sending a voter tsunami that flushes the trash from D.C. in November

Also please bless Barney Frank with AIDS, and Bill Maher with cancer of the testicles. Amen.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:18 am

I having a great Monday laughing by butt off at the liberal whining going on here, Jay. It’s pretty funny that y’all are complaining about a harmless little prayer, when we have the BP oil spill, people w/out jobs, people w/out health insurance, etc. etc.

NRB2

May 24th, 2010
9:18 am

The same liberal whiners in here would be fine if it was MUSLIMS praying, but since we’re talking about white christians, who are hated by Democrats (especially Brack Insane Oblamer), well…you know the drill.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:18 am

Peadawg – the privacy of your home = the street corner???

wow – talk about a stretch. you might want to use a little liniment or Advil – would hate for you to damage something …

Paul

May 24th, 2010
9:19 am

USinUK

Pillage before burning? What if you want BBQ?

Also reminds me (storytime on a Monday morning) when I moved here my sister warned me that a form of greeting is “Where do you go to church?” Nothing antagonistic – in spite of the assumptions. Anyhow, the guy from the phone company came out to do something with the phone lines and asked me that.

Next time I saw sis I told her she was right, that did happen. She asked me how I answered and I said “I told him we went to the Church of the Firstborn of the Redeemed of Satan.” She screamed ‘what!” and I told her to relax – gave the guy some general answer.

In all seriousness, months went by before I got asked that again. In the years since, it hardly ever happened. Mostly, people are just being friendly and offering you to go where they go. It’s as much a social thing as a religious thing.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:19 am

“The same liberal whiners in here would be fine if it was MUSLIMS praying”

mmmm … I love the smell of strawmen in the morning …

JDW

May 24th, 2010
9:19 am

Peadawg – “Sure, let’s pay attention to EVERYTHING that the bible says. *rolls eyes*”

So if you believe, as I hear so often, that the Bible is the word of God wouldn’t that include EVERYTHNG? If not isn’t it just Man’s interpretation of a manuscript of Men?

nwneighbor

May 24th, 2010
9:20 am

Jay,
There are a lot of things that startle people that move to the South. Some are good, some are bad. But we are who we are. Typically, prayer before meetings is an acknowledgment of the difficulty to wisely lead our communities and an act of humility toward a wise and gracious God. I agree with USinUK, and we shouldn’t pray in public if we don’t pray in private. There is a time and place for public prayer. If you know anything about prayer, and have had prayers answered, you realize the importance of believers praying together. In the South, we historically held faith in a common God. Prayer is natural to us. Should we change? That depends. What other things would we be asked to change? When I moved to Georgia 46 years ago, I would have gotten rid of grits and sweet tea, but I rather like them now.

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:20 am

Paul – “Pillage before burning? What if you want BBQ?”

okay, that will be the first amendment to the rule.

stands for decibels

May 24th, 2010
9:21 am

Since it seems to come up a lot, and when I ask about it I get a lot of fuming and fussing, I’ll put this out to everyone.

Can someone explain to me what, exactly, was offensive about what Reverend Lowery said in that inaugural speech OGK is referring to a the top of the thread?

Here’s the transcript:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/inauguration-watch/2009/01/transcript_of_rev_lowerys_inau.html

Are there any white folks who actually take offense at a black man hoping that his white brothers and sisters will embrace what is right?

Seriously, WTF is wrong with that?

Jay

May 24th, 2010
9:21 am

NW Neighbor, I’m not crusading for that to change. If done with respect for diversity of beliefs, I have no problem with it.

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:22 am

USinUK @ 9:18

Huh? When did I say that? According to the verse you posted, the privacy of your own home means in your room, door closed, by yourself. So, like I said, it sounds like you’re against saying grace at a dinner table with your family…

Loki

May 24th, 2010
9:22 am

eat of their spoils

Never eat the spoiled stuff.

NRB2

May 24th, 2010
9:23 am

mmmm … I love the smell of strawmen in the morning …
——————————————————————————

Don’t try to play it off. The democrat party hates whites, white christians in particular. The left has waged war on that segment of society since the 1960s, and while it peaked in the 1990s with the Waco and Ruby Ridge murders, Obama has recently escalated the war against whites to new heights.

Rightwing Troll

May 24th, 2010
9:24 am

“Who’s forcing you to bow you’re head?

It’s better to nip it in the bud now than see it entered into a bill and have to fight it in the courts.”

The way I see it, it’s a slippery slope, if we let the camel get it’s nose under the tent we’ll have to fight them over here because when they were given the choice of “with us” or “agin us” they chose “agin us” so we can’t let up until mission accomplished….

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:24 am

So, JDW, look up these verses:
Proverbs 30:17
Exodus 21:15
Leviticus 26:29
Psalm 137:9

You follow those, right?

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:24 am

“Dear Allah…we come to thee with much thanksgiving. For giving us the oil to us again the evil Anglo-Saxon. Oh Allah, help us to turn the evil Anglo-Saxon from his evil ways and to punish and/or behead all those Christians who wilt not turn to thee, Allah Akbar”.

Saviour of the Universe

May 24th, 2010
9:24 am

This is no lie.

A BP person just contacted me to confirm my idea that I had submitted a few days ago.

Acquire the biggest oil tanker available, gut it to the hull, attach outflow pipes to the current screw holes, invert, and lower into place.

I am a genius.

NRB2

May 24th, 2010
9:25 am

Are there any white folks who actually take offense at a black man hoping that his white brothers and sisters will embrace what is right?
—————————————————-

Because his definition of “right” is socialism and bowing to a nanny state government. Don’t pretend it’s otherwise.

Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2010
9:25 am

dB

I think it’s just the fact that it was Lowery is enough for OGK.

@@

May 24th, 2010
9:26 am

Putting the first sentence aside:

I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it.

do you not believe in this?

Freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under the law, and the reservation of powers to the people. I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion.

Dunbar said…..”I like…”. You don’t? I know how you feel about “Freedom of expression”, but what about the rest?

You don’t give people enough credit. Look no further than some of your leftists contributors and know that some people are not so easily convinced. What….you think they need YOU to shield them? You give YOURSELF too much credit, jay.

F-105 Thunderchief

May 24th, 2010
9:27 am

I have no use for zealots, political, religious or otherwise. They are often fools not to be suffered at all.

Rightwing Troll

May 24th, 2010
9:27 am

no just nutbag white christians who declare themselves “lambs of god”, pluralistically “marry” underage girls and “lay with them” while stockpiling prohibited weapons… Yeah Democrats hate those types…

Democrats don’t hate middle aged, fat, white, mustachioed “conservative” men, we just pity those types…

Peadawg

May 24th, 2010
9:28 am

It’s funny how some liberals who say they believe in God slam the church every chance the get. Not really funny…sad I guess. Funny was the wrong word.

Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2010
9:28 am

Because his definition of “right” is socialism and bowing to a nanny state government. Don’t pretend it’s otherwise.

:roll: אוי אלוהים freaking! :roll:

nwneighbor

May 24th, 2010
9:28 am

Correction — The part of USinUK that I agree with is the scripture posted from Jesus sermon on the mount.
I think our biggest problem is that we fail to acknowledge how stupid we can be at times. Prayer is not stupid, but some of things we pray are.

Beatrice Palmer

May 24th, 2010
9:29 am

Saviour of the Universe

I forgot to thank you for your suggestion.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:29 am

“Are there any white folks who actually take offense at a black man hoping that his white brothers and sisters will embrace what is right?”

Depends on who is stating what is right or wrong. I dont need the likes of that idiot Useless Lowery “educating” me on any subject.

“Are there any black folks who actually take offense at a white man hoping that his black brothers and sisters will embrace what is right?”

Scooter

May 24th, 2010
9:30 am

Good bread
Good meat
Good God
Let’s eat!
Amen

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:30 am

“Don’t try to play it off. The democrat party hates whites, white christians in particular. ”

wow … we’re getting a whole FIELD of strawmen today!

“it peaked in the 1990s with the Waco and Ruby Ridge murders”

holy cow. so, Waco and RR had nothing to do with illegal arms – it was just because they were white christians. gottit.

Curious Observer

May 24th, 2010
9:30 am

I would love to see what these hard-core conservatives would say if the United States were majority Muslim. Prayer to Allah, anybody?

Paul

May 24th, 2010
9:31 am

Jay’s 9:21 gets to the heart of it.

Loki 9:22

Hi there! Haven’t heard from you since the Thor comic books –

Peadawg 9:24

“You follow those, right?”

Maybe if he’s an Orthodox Jew –

Old Testament and all that -

Rightwing Troll

May 24th, 2010
9:31 am

It’s funny how most “conservatives” who say they believe in God disparage the church with thier phony piety every chance they get. Not really funny… sad I guess. Funny was the wrong word.

Of course 98% of the churches in the deep south are really businesses so they should be taxed…

godless heathen

May 24th, 2010
9:32 am

“a Christian land governed by Christian principles.”

That was mighty Christianly they way that the slaves and the Natives were treated. I’m proud to say it wasn’t a bunch of atheists leading the way on those fronts.

Outhouse GoKart

May 24th, 2010
9:33 am

Church is good idea, until ones gets people involved.

Normal

May 24th, 2010
9:33 am

“Like the bee gathering honey from the different flowers, the wise person
accepts the essence of the different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions.”
Ghandi

kayaker 71

May 24th, 2010
9:33 am

“Freedom of belief of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under the law and the reservation of powers to the people”. What the hell is wrong with that?

USinUK

May 24th, 2010
9:33 am

Peadawg – “Huh? When did I say that? ”

when you equate praying with your family in the privacy of your own home with praying in public / on the streetcorners.

stands for decibels

May 24th, 2010
9:34 am

“Are there any black folks who actually take offense at a white man hoping that his black brothers and sisters will embrace what is right?”

Dunno; I’d say “Doubtful.” It might help if the white man can find a synonym for “right” that rhymes with “black.”

You do know the more-than-half-century-old blues song that Lowery was joyfully updating for 2009, yes?

AmVet

May 24th, 2010
9:34 am

“I don’t think any of us liberals have any problems with people praying in their own houses.”

Or in their churches, seven days a week, if they want; or in private anywhere for that matter, Finn.

BUT…that is not what this is about. It never is.

It is about shoving their mythology down pope’s throats at every opportunity.

In governmental meetings, before sporting events, before business meetings, you name it.

But as is the case in schools and many other venues we’ve put an end to most of that illegal happy horse___…