To Don Blankenship, just the cost of doing coal business
On Thursday, a Senate committee took testimony on coal mine safety after the explosion last month at a West Virginia operation run by Massey Energy that killed 29 men.
In his first testimony since the accident, the worst coal mine disaster in 40 years, Don L. Blankenship, the chairman and chief executive, came out swinging. The 23 miner fatalities at Massey mines in the decade before the Upper Big Branch explosion made his company “about average,” he said, and Massey was a leader in safety innovation but had been forbidden by the Mine Safety and Health administration from making some safety improvements….
At the hearing, another witness, Cecil E. Roberts, president of the United Mine Workers of America, challenged Mr. Blankenship’s assertion that Massey’s safety record was average.
“I can’t come up with another coal company that’s had 23 miners in 10 years die,” Mr. Roberts, seated next to Mr. Blankenship at the witness table, said. “This isn’t average. This is deplorable.
“This is the worst fatality rate in the industry either way you look at it, either before the explosion or after the explosion.”
… Robert C. Byrd, the 92-year-old West Virginia Democrat, took a tough stance with Mr. Blankenship. “Twenty-nine men are now dead, dead, dead, simply because they went to work that morning,” he said.
The very next morning:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) – Another Massey Energy coal miner has died as a result of on-the-job injuries.
State of West Virginia spokesman Hoy Murphy says 55-year-old James Erwin of Delbarton died about 6 a.m. Friday.
Murphy says Erwin was pinned between a piece of heavy equipment and the wall at Massey’s Ruby Energy mine in Mingo County on May 10.
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548 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 22nd, 2010
11:10 pm
Listening to “House At Pooh Corner” reminds me that their are no wild honey bees here anymore and very few tame ones.
josef nix
May 22nd, 2010
11:16 pm
Hillbilly
I use woods and forest the same as you. A copse to me is a few trees, generally with a bit of the undergrowth there as well. A stand to me is a mature growth and ready for harvest…it has a certain “commercial” connotation to it…
Moderate Line
May 22nd, 2010
11:24 pm
AmVet
May 22nd, 2010
9:38 pm
Moderate,
As I suspected, The MHSA data is not altogether without dispute. A great article that should be read in its entirety.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The article seems to support my conclusion because indicates that actual fines were up were proposed fines were down. Plus the article is from 2006 and the big jump came after that.
==========
BLOCK: But when MSHA responded, looking at the data, they said, and they have graphs to show this, that the average size of the actual fine, not the proposed fine, was up by nearly 38 percent in that same period, so how do you explain that?
Mr. BORENSTEIN: Well one of the statisticians that we talked to said its like we’re saying apples and they’re looking at it and saying, hey, here’s our oranges and they’re the same as apples. We looked at proposed fines, that’s in MSHA’s direct control, actual fines, what they call actual, which are final fines, are somewhat in MSHA’s control, but also in control of judges. So that’s the, that’s one of the major differences.
============================
administrative law judge with the independent Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission. An operator or miners’ representative who disagrees with any other enforcement action by MSHA also is entitled to a hearing. The administrative law judge’s decision can be appealed to the Commission, and thereafter, to the U.S. Court of Appeals.
http://www.msha.gov/mshainfo/factsheets/mshafct4.htm
Would judge law enforcement on how many people they arrest or how many they get convicted?
Good night.
josef nix
May 22nd, 2010
11:30 pm
Hillbilly
I grew up using section (640 acres), half section (320 acres), and quarter section (160 acres)–a plantation was 640 acres plus. Farmers were owners of less than 640 acres, planters more than. Even if your landholding was a thousand acres, you “farmed” anything below 640 but you “planted” anything over that. Dad’s family “planted” cotton, but “farmed” corn…
Michael Smith
May 22nd, 2010
11:34 pm
Another Bookman column rejoicing over the opportunity to slam-by-smear-and-innuendo the industries that keep us alive, heated, cooled, fed and lighted –well, how shocking is that — to hear a liberal damn the very industries on which his own life depends.
What this creep Bookman deserves is to be forced to live without the benefits made possibile by these industries. He deserves to be transported to the middle of some wilderness — say, the Amazon — and then released to fend for his miserable self against the forces of nature, which his pathetic, envy-riddled, hatred-eaten mentality would be powerless to resist.
Please, please Bookman — take a one way ticket to Cuba — or North Korea — or the still-communist portions of China — that is where you belong — in those hell-holes with your fellow haters of man’s mind and everything it makes possible.
That is what you deserve, Bookman. That would be justice.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 22nd, 2010
11:45 pm
Josef
I think that takes hold as you move farther south and west. I’ve heard people from the Plains states refer to, “riding the section lines”. There are some pretty irregular lot sizes in north GA. Each time they opened up a new part of the Cherokee lands and held a lottery, they seemed to use a different system. The area that covers me is part of the 1832 lottery. And there are lots of discrepencies. For instance, two surveyors starting at different points and working toward a common point. Sometimes they didn’t quite meet up, though. It’s still causing law suits ’til this day.
Some of my ancestors had lands of as much as 1200-1500 acres, that I know of. Often, though, due to terrain and such, only a fraction of that could be farmed. As you know, in spite of what they show in movies like Gone With The Wind, the Tara-type plantations just didn’t exist in the up country. If a man could actually farm 100 acres, he was pretty well off in these parts.
I’ve got to go but remind me some time when the subject comes up, about some info I found on a man here, and how much his property holdings and net worth increased between 1860 and 1870. Reckon what he was?
I’ll say good night on this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gdEkGbMpZA
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
3:54 am
Jay@ 12:14: “So that projection is that if nothing changes, it will happen in …. 2055.
The problem is that we’re already in deficit spending and it is only getting worse. With the figures provided by Heritage, our receipts never go above 20% of GDP, yet in just 10 years we’re going to be spending 25% of GDP on government programs. Add in new debt caused by health care reform if it isn’t de-funded and/or changed back, and those deficits grow higher and faster.
At some point, spending on non-essentials has to stop, and all these useless boards and committees and agencies have to be shut down or streamlined to actually work.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 23rd, 2010
5:30 am
Stock market investors urged to ride out the storm
If you’ve got money in the stock market, take a deep breath: It’s one of those moments. The market is lurching, and that is precisely when impulsive behavior can hurt the most. -Urinal/ obozo Election Central
You know, there is only one problem here, most people smart enough to make money and invest it in the stock market, aren’t stupid enough to take financial advice from the AJC, just sayin….
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 23rd, 2010
6:32 am
Blaring headline-
Huge N.J. crowd protests budget cuts
A crowd estimated at 30,000 to 35,000 people gathered Saturday near New Jersey’s Statehouse to protest Gov. Chris Christie’s proposed budget cuts.-Urinal
Buried in the article, hey, it’s an improvement from last time when the AJC didn’t even mention it-
It was mostly composed of public employee union members and several community and nonprofit groups that would lose some or all their funding if Christie’s plans are adopted.
“Government watch dogs,” eh?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 23rd, 2010
6:40 am
As Georgia’s dire budget outlook required lawmakers to make painful cuts to virtually every state program, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution investigated whether the state’s gigantic corrections budget offered opportunities for savings. -Urinal
Oh yeah, let’s put all the scumbags back on the street and let the innocent fend for themselves.
Is there no savage that the libs at the AJC don’t absolutely adore?
Just askin…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 23rd, 2010
6:49 am
The candidate who on Tuesday won the special election in a Pennsylvania congressional district is right-to-life and pro-gun.
He accused his opponent of wanting heavier taxes. He said he would have voted against Barack Obama’s health care plan and promised to vote against cap-and-trade legislation, which is a tax increase supposedly somehow related to turning down the planet’s thermostat.
This candidate, Mark Critz, is a Democrat. -George Will, Urinal’s token Con
Campaigning like a Conservative and voting like a spineless squish liberal once they are elected, dummycrats, why would anyone believe a word they say?
Scout
May 23rd, 2010
7:27 am
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin… @ 6:49am:
Exactly! That’s probably their newest tactic ………. the heighth of hypocrisy but they have no conscience.
larry
May 23rd, 2010
7:39 am
Why thats like campigning against nation-building and you wind up re-building not one but two countries with Americans tax dollars.
@@
May 23rd, 2010
8:01 am
Who was it, last night, that was talkin’ about our “improved” standing in the world….they mentioned Japan? Based on what I’ve been reading, the relationship since Obama’s election has been strained. Now, granted it wasn’t totally his fault, but he had to get a bit aggressive with Japan’s new leadership recently….questioning their alliance….could they be trusted? The government was shocked by the question.
Well, it’s only when things heat up in the region, that Japan sees things our way.
BEIJING — Japanese Prime Minister Yukio announced Sunday that his country would abide by a 14-year-old agreement with the United States to move a Marine Corps air base in Okinawa in a significant breakthrough on an issue that has bedeviled the two allies and worried many other Asian countries since he took office eight months ago.
Reality bites.
Rightwing Troll
May 23rd, 2010
8:13 am
It’s gonna be a nice day out there. You Trolls need to get some sun… Don’t stay in here all day (again)…
TaxPayer
May 23rd, 2010
8:14 am
Roughly 3,500 of the state’s 118,000 public school teachers are at risk, according to one estimate — although the state Department of Education says an exact count won’t be available until this fall.
State Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond says his department has prepared for 8,000 school-related applications for jobless benefits this summer.
It’s OK. They understand. Times are tough and taxes are already too high as it is. They probably should have never been hired in the first place. They just helped to bloat a government that was already too big. Besides, that money could be better spent on more important stuff.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
8:14 am
The wood(s) is a hundred acres, or so says Christopher Robin.
But it stretches all the way to the North Pole.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
8:21 am
Campaigning like a Conservative and voting like a [more-or-less loyal Democrat] once they are elected, [Democrats], why would anyone believe a word they say?
Said Dems are invariably an improvement over the GOP choice.
This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions.
A SunDay in the Life of a Republican
May 23rd, 2010
8:56 am
Souder was part of the House Republican class of 1994, when we began to hear the “family values” message reverberating through our political and religious landscapes… In the early 90s… I remember one afternoon in particular when I sneaked out of the dorms to go to the beach with my friends, six other Christian college students, most of whom were from out of town. The women were from prominent families. Their fathers were pastors of large conservative churches and Evangelical institutions. All of our parents were in the thick of planning for the Republican Revolution, armed with a pro-life, pro-abstinence, and anti-gay agenda. Most of these women were at a Bible college not because they were aspiring to have great careers in the church, but because they were hoping to find men with similar values so that they could become wives, mothers, and supporters their husbands’ careers… Their hopes were different from mine, and I often became frustrated by their willingness to place all their own career ambitions aside for a man. But they were clever, witty, and beautiful…
… we were all wearing bikinis, which was strictly against school rules… As we settled ourselves onto the towels… we began to talk about abortion. Abortion in those circles was akin to murder, so I was surprised to hear one woman quickly confess, “I would get one.” My ears perked as she explained, “I wouldn’t even think twice about it. If I got pregnant, it would ruin my father’s career. I would never tell my parents or anyone. I would just do it, as soon as I found out.” The chorus of women agreed…
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
9:07 am
I don’t want to universalize that moment and say that all women who grew up in the Religious Right thought these things. But for me, it became too much to bear, and I had to begin imagining values that supported every person in the family. Now that 1994 is far behind us and we are almost numb to the scandals of that “family values” class, can we begin rethinking all of this?
No.
This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions.
david wayne osedach
May 23rd, 2010
9:17 am
We will be using coal for a long time to come. Now is the time to make mining a lot more safer.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 23rd, 2010
9:18 am
Well, I might of knowed. Here we were, having a nice talk about the mines and woods and what you call meals, and along comes the Sinners talking about Abortion. It’s the Sabbath. Can’t we all just go to church and pray the Lord will smite our enemas?
Be sure and go this a.m. Just set there in front of the preacher and act like butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth. You can go back to hating people and badmouthing them when church lets out.
Have a good day everybody.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
9:19 am
Off Topic Post #… I lost track, 1, I think.
Sunday in the life’s huffpo link @ 8.56 got me thinking about the first site I go to when it comes to personal values issues, Pandagon.net. I saw a fabulous think piece about libertarian’s reach into mainstream right-wing thought that Amanda did in the wake of the Rand Paul flare-up that’s worth a look.
The headline, “Why Rand Paul Matters” doesn’t do it justice–it covers a lot more (values, the Commerce Clause, Public vs. Private, Freedom) than just the guy cruelly named after the chain smoking sociopathic skank.
A wee taste follows.
I think a lot of media people tend to think of libertarians mostly as a tiny minority of overprivileged twits who are relatively harmless with the power fantasies of what unbelievable sci-fi badasses they would be if the government just got rid of OSHA. But the folks who write for Reason and work for the Cato Institute aren’t really representative of libertarianism as it actually exists in most of the U.S. Because self-identified libertarians are a tiny minority doesn’t mean that libertarian thought doesn’t enjoy widespread popularity amongst conservative Republicans. Indeed, libertarianism is the primary intellectual justification in this country for resistance to most social justice movements. (I use the term “intellectual” loosely here, but you know what I mean.) It is also the primary intellectual justification for unchecked corporate power that leads to disasters like our collapsed economy and the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. And I would argue that the existence of the Republican party today depends largely on people who are invested in the latter exploiting people invested in the former for support and votes.
TaxPayer
May 23rd, 2010
9:21 am
Palin/Paul 2012 or Paul/Palin 2012?
Either way, two “P’s” amounts to more of that trickle-down philosophy that so well defines the Republican/Libertarian movement. Go for it.
getalife
May 23rd, 2010
9:25 am
“Sen. Sanders: “Whether it is in banking, these guys have huge amounts of money, and the situation gets worse with the recent Citizens United Supreme Court decision, and anyone who stands up to the big money interests can expect a huge amount of 30 second ads against them. That’s the reality. Are we a Democracy, or are we an Oligarchy where the very powerful special interests exert enormous influence over our Government?”
Ratigan: “What’s your answer to that question?”
Sen. Sanders: “I think we’re an Oligarchy and I think it’s getting worse.”
Oh, it will get much worse.
larry
May 23rd, 2010
9:36 am
smite our enemas?
Ouch!! That sounds like it would hurt.
A SunDay in the Life of a Republican
May 23rd, 2010
9:50 am
One of the fundamental flaws with the “family values Republican flock” is that they cannot bring themselves to admit ever making a mistake. Whatever happens, it is always someone else’s fault or else it was just God’s will or something else. Of course, an even bigger flaw is that they cannot “see” this. Even when they’re caught with their pants down or whatever, their response is, in so many words, something to the effect that others were just out to get them or something similar. Then again, they do all seem to look a lot like Jim and Tammy Faye, et al. Perhaps it was God’s will after all.
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:01 am
I love to see the statists from the left AND the right shaking in their weetle boots. The Pauls are growing and the sensible people of America are going to neuter Uncle Sugar.
Don’t worry though, ya’ll can always go live in Detroit. We’ll give ya’ll that place.
Frankly, I’m fed up with politicians in Washington lecturing the rest of us about family values. Our families have values. But our government doesn’t.
BILL CLINTON, speech at Democratic National Convention, July 16, 1992
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:02 am
Three cheers for the people of Kentucky.
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:07 am
Our nation was built on the values of hard work, equal opportunity, thrift, and strong families. Americans believe in the importance of community, responsibility, and, most of all, family. We need to strengthen this institution that–for most of us– is the central work of our lives and the foundation of our own and our children’s success. The first financial cushion we need is a stable family, and the first lessons we learn about responsibility are learned in our homes.
John Edwards
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:11 am
“Dad, I’m in some trouble. There’s been an accident and you’re going to hear all sorts of things about me from now on. Terrible things.”
Ted Kennedy.
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:13 am
Integrity is the lifeblood of democracy. Deceit is a poison in its veins.
- Ted Kennedy
Riiiiiiiight
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
11:18 am
“Missed you at last night’s “singalong”!”
AmVet, re:your 12:16: I don’t appreciate music in the way that you and Jay and others do. I like what I like, but what I like is pretty narrow in scope and sound, therefore, you won’t see me participate in Friday night’s conversations very much.
Movies and TV, now then you’ll get me typing!
Truth Hurts
May 23rd, 2010
11:20 am
Warning to all libertarians and Tea Partiers.
We have real enemies in the world. These enemies must be found. They must be pursued and they must be defeated.
Barack Obama
Keynote speech to Democratic National Convention, July 2004.
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
11:28 am
“Indeed, libertarianism is the primary intellectual justification in this country for resistance to most social justice movements.”
stands, this is the most ignorant statement regarding libertarianism I have ever read. Obviously written by someone who has never read nor practiced the political persuasion.
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2010
11:43 am
Warning to all libertarians and Tea Partiers.
JOIN ME IN MY FEAR! THEY ARE COMING FOR US!
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
11:50 am
Kamchak, each side has their fears.
The right fears the ignorant majority who tries to take what they earn. They fear people who do not act socially in a way they want them to. They fear groups obtaining power over their actions.
The left fears losing power over others. They fear the educated and the principled.
Both sides operate out of fear, and both use it to their advantage.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 23rd, 2010
11:57 am
than just the guy cruelly named after the chain smoking sociopathic skank.
I don’t know a whole lot about Rand Paul and I’m definitely not a fan of Ayn Rand but a good while back I saw Ron Paul on CSpan and he was saying that Rand’s name is actually Randy and the family just called him Rand for short. He isn’t named after Ayn Rand, according to his Dad.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
12:16 pm
The right fears the ignorant majority who tries to take what they earn.
If they take as much as what people gripe about, I don’t think ignorant is the adjective that I would use to describe them. That seems like pure genius to me. If they get away with paying “no taxes” and still get a refund on top of that, that’s more genius than ignorant.
However, if the financial geniuses (like Madoff) take money from that same group, you hear nary a peep about it, except for a few. Those geniuses who make people look like idiots are worshipped and lauded, even after case after case turns up. They all do the same thing, yet people are willing to give them money in hopes of that “quick dollar” that never will materialize.
When you really think about it, I think you described the wrong group as ignorant.
Just sayin…
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
12:17 pm
Here’s who the right should fear for taking what they earn:
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/03/0311_madoff/index.htm?popupWidth=770&popupHeight=660
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2010
12:18 pm
Dave R.
I agree that fear has it’s political advantages, but fear is all that le petit caporal has. Even his obsession with sex is his way of saying that THE PERVERTS ARE COMING!
While fear is used by all political parties, I believe the negatives far outweigh any advances made by using this tool.
AmVet
May 23rd, 2010
12:19 pm
“Another Bookman column rejoicing over the opportunity to slam-by-smear-and-innuendo the industries…”
Michael I very much appreciate you putting that at the beginning of the post.
It saved me from reading any further prevarications and puerile nonsense contained therein.
Rand is just another pro-corporate Republican feigning to be a Republican-lite/Libertarian.
He properly speaks out about our sovereignty being usurped.
But in goofball fashion attributes it to the UN, etc, rather than the multi-nationals hiding behind that giant American flag on Wall Street. He is apparently oblivious to the the global corporatization boys that are the real culprits.
But the soft on crime right wing will foolishly deem him wise…
getalife, Sanders is one more significant voice in the ever-growing chorus who at least realize that the American oligarchy is real. That much too much of all of the wealth and power in America is being accumulated into fewer and fewer hands. And that record income redistribution UP the economic ladder and welfare for the wealthy is going to further damage the republic.
I sense it’s day are numbered…
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
12:24 pm
SoCo, it doesn’t take genius to herd together and force your will through sheer numbers.
You might just as well be describing a herd of cows stampeding through your town. Powerful, but not very bright.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm
@@ said, Who was it, last night, that was talkin’ about our “improved” standing in the world….they mentioned Japan?
I mentioned that yesterday. I have lived in Japan on three occasions, am married to a lovely Japanese woman, and follow Japanese politics as we have a cable feed to NHK (Japanese public television).
Prime Minister Yukio (first name) Hatayama is the leader of the Minshu (Liberal) Party that just came into office last September. He and his party have been a profound disappointment since then. His approval ratings are hovering around 20 percent. It is he, not President Obama, who is immensely unpopular in Japan. Hatayama has been dragging his feet on the move of the Okinawa base, and finally, the ever indecisive Hatayama has made a decision.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
12:31 pm
Dave
Sheer numbers?!!? That whole argument about “people” not paying taxes but getting money in return usually refers to people of color. For 13-16% of the total population to force their will by sheer numbers IS genius. How else would you describe a super minority of the population forcing their will upon the rest of us. You also have to remember that only a percentage of that 13-16% fits that description of not paying taxes. It’s a stampede alright, about a 100 cow stampede trampling over New York City.
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
Sorry, SOCo, but I don’t bring race into anything. Nor do I bring the usual people not paying taxes into the argument.
I just bring in those who want something that they do not earn at the expense of others (healthcare, money, equality, etc). AND before you get on your soapbox about equality, we are all BORN equal, but we do not remain equal based upon our choices and actions in life.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 23rd, 2010
12:54 pm
but we do not remain equal based upon our choices and actions in life.
So, if I’d made the right choices, I could play basketball like Michael Jordan or throw a baseball like Nolan Ryan?
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
12:54 pm
Dave
You may be the exception to the norm, but for the most part, that’s the gist of that argument. As far as people wanting something that they don’t earn, does the person who puts in 40 hours a week at McDonalds not deserve some kind of healthcare coverage? Or is healthcare coverage for those who make more than $12-$15 per hour?
I don’t make a soapbox speech or even reference being born equal, but since you bring it up, we are born equal in the fact that we are human and we breathe oxygen. A child born to Bill and Camille Cosby is not as socially equal as a child born to coal miners in West Virginia. This country revolves around money and access, whether you choose to admit it or not. Those with money have access, those without do not. If we were equal, the ex-convict Martha Stewart would be the same as ex-convict Pookie who was busted for possession of an ounce of weed. I don’t see that happening, but you can continue to live in your version of America if you so choose. I’ll live in mine.
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
1:01 pm
“does the person who puts in 40 hours a week at McDonalds not deserve some kind of healthcare coverage?”
SoCo, no, they don’t DESERVE coverage. Healthcare is not a right. They need to work harder and learn more so that they are no longer capable of only being employed at McDonalds. They DESERVE whatever they are willing to work for.
“So, if I’d made the right choices, I could play basketball like Michael Jordan or throw a baseball like Nolan Ryan?”
Hillbilly, your ACTIONS and choices would have determined that. Those two didn’t just happen, they worked harder and used what they were born with to get to greatness. But no matter what they were born with, they could never have succeeded in their chosen professions without hard work and dedication.
Dave R.
May 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm
Y’all have a great Sunday. I’m off to enjoy the warm weather outside.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
But no matter what they were born with, they could never have succeeded in their chosen professions without hard work and dedication.
Agreed, that they worked very hard to get where they got. However, I could have worked 24/7 and I’d never have reached the level they did because I didn’t have the God-given athletic talent that they did. To think otherwise is fantasy.
A SunDay in the Life of a Republican
May 23rd, 2010
1:15 pm
“does the person who puts in 40 hours a week at McDonalds not deserve some kind of healthcare coverage?”
SoCo, no, they don’t DESERVE coverage. Healthcare is not a right. They need to work harder and learn more so that they are no longer capable of only being employed at McDonalds. They DESERVE whatever they are willing to work for.
There’s your sign. Does any working person deserve healthcare insurance that cannot be rescinded or cancelled when there’s a claim? No, is the family-valued Republican politician’s answer. Yet, these Republican government employees and politicians will not give up their own coverage. They “earned” it.
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm
…because I didn’t have the God-given athletic talent that they did.
Well, obviously God doesn’t love you.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
1:22 pm
a good while back I saw Ron Paul on CSpan and he was saying that Rand’s name is actually Randy and the family just called him Rand for short. He isn’t named after Ayn Rand, according to his Dad.
darn you to heck, HD, for ruining a perfectly good hate-on!
A SunDay in the Life of a Republican
May 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
I heard Ron Paul’s son was nicknamed Rayndy. Probably just another rumor.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
So working 40 hours a week at McDonalds is different than the 40 hours a week that I work for CBP?
I don’t see it. If I’m busting my a$$ at McDonalds and don’t get sh*t in return, what is my motivation to go beyond that? We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I think that if you’re willing to work hard, you DESERVE something. If that’s the case, then CEO’s don’t DESERVE the $$ they get paid. We should all be paid $7.50 an hour.
They need to work harder and learn more so that they are no longer capable of only being employed at McDonalds.
I’m hoping that you are not stereotyping McDonalds workers as unlearned and/or uneducated. Enjoy your Sunday. Not everybody get’s to enjoy Sundays off.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm
Well, obviously God doesn’t love you.
But He does. He loves us all.
I’m off to enjoy the outdoors. Y’all have fun.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm
Soco and Hillbilly,
I agree with both of you.
As to the McDonald’s scenario, I DO believe that a hard working individual is entitled to health care. Isn’t that just the humane way? All humans deserve health care. Now then, in Dafe R’s view, he does seem to imply that only those who do not workhard are doomed to a life of slinging burgers.
As to God-given talent, there is an old saying in basketball among coaches – “You cannot teach height.”
A SunDay in the Life of a Republican
May 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm
So, one of the Republican messages is that all people working in lowly food handling, preparation and serving jobs don’t deserve to be healthy and uneducated.
I doubt some folks actually think through the implications. Then again, as long as no one else ever touches your food… who cares!
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
1:36 pm
Three cheers for the people of Kentucky.
Indeed; far more of them turned out to vote for the Democratic primary than the Republican one.
That is what you meant, right?
(I know, I know, I was just funnin’–the creatures who voted in the other primary aren’t actually human, right? just the “ignorant majority,” as our Dave delightfully puts it?)
@@
May 23rd, 2010
1:37 pm
eyes:
I’ve been reading that it’s the Japanese people that want the base gone. The PM has been playing to their sentiments. Doesn’t matter now though….reality has hit….it was a midget torpedo.
I’m headed south for the day.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
1:37 pm
Soco and Hillbilly,
I agree with both of you.
Well of course. I’ve got two bracelets I try to remember to wear when I post here: one says “WWSCD?”; the other, “WWHDD?”
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
1:41 pm
“We should all be paid $7.50 an hour.”
SC–In case you forgot, that economic system has been tried numerous times, with the same results every time: a low standard of living for everyone except for the politically connected. China and the former Soviet Union are prime examples of why making everyone “equal” doesn’t work. No need to debate theory or even compassion here, we have actual experience to go by.
P.S. Too bad you missed Friday Night Music. We had a small section on white guys who sing like black guys.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm
@@, Right, the people in Okinawa do not want the base there. Hatayama caved in and only agreed to move the base from one location to another (still in Okinawa).
The people of Okinawa have long been victims of the GI’s there (incidents of rape and violence) while the military only slapped the perpetrators on the wrist. I do not blame the people of Okinawa for wanting the US Military out.
And, like the previous (and more conservative government) I believe it is time for Japan to stop relying on the US for protection and step up to the plate to defend themselves. A country that is number two in GDP, a country planning to put a base on the moon, a country that just sent a satellite powered by solar winds to Venus can defend itself.
stands for decibels
May 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm
It saved me from reading any further prevarications
I’ve learned to skip most anything addressing the blog host as “Bookman.”
9 times out of 10 they’re whiny, jealous jerks who are filled with rage that someone gets paid to do what they think they could do, oh, like fifty times better, really!
Seriously don’t like anyone who’s that disrespectful–and yeah, goes for left wing louts who pull that kind of stuff over at Kyle’s joint as well.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
“So, one of the Republican messages is that all people working in lowly food handling, preparation and serving jobs don’t deserve to be healthy and uneducated.”
In my world, each person is responsible for their own destiny, health and education included. It’s not a matter of “deserving” or “not deserving”–those terms only apply to people who don’t have the physical or mental capacity to care for themselves. The reality remains that anyone with sufficient motivation can achieve success in this country, all of your hand-wringing aside.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
1:53 pm
Bruno said, The reality remains that anyone with sufficient motivation can achieve success in this country, all of your hand-wringing aside.
American remains the country in which one can dream to do better. However, it is a myth to say that b>everyone is capable of realizing that dream. Environmental issues and circumstance are a factor in whether one can indeed succeed or not. When I was learning to be an educator, I was taught to consider “affective” factors in formulating a lesson plan or syllabus. “If you do not take into account the internalized individual syllabi, “I was told “You will miss so many students.” And again, as I have mentioned earlier, try as I may, my endeavors will not add three inches to my height and allow me to do a slam dunk.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm
Too many hereabouts and elsewhere do not want to acknowledge and deal with the concept of luck of the draw when it comes to our “station in life.” Certainly much is to be attributed to what we make of the conditions of the time and place of birth, but that factor is determining in ways subtle and complex as well as the more overt. In a social structure which limits access based on the station of birth the opportunity to apply personal initiative is equally limited.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:00 pm
Bruno
That $7.50 an hour was my attempt at political sarcasm. I’m not able to do sarcasm too well. I understand the differences between capitalism and communism a bit. I was just not feeling that if someone busts their a$$ at Micky D’s for 40 hours a week, they don’t deserve some kind of healthcare coverage.
People from all walks of life praise the capitalist system, yet they fail to realize how vital the little people are to the system. The minimum wagers as well as the “middle class” are what makes this country’s economy so great. The real middle class ($40k-$150k a year) are the one’s shopping at Wal Mart, Target, Home Depot, etc… and eating at Micky D’s, Burger King, and such. That provides those minimum wagers employment. Their employment gives those owners/stockholders the profits they so desire. They, in turn, put some money back into the system in areas that benefit middle class workers (autos, homes, etc…). Then the cycle repeats.
If you remove a spoke from that wheel, it ceases to become a complete circle. Then you end up with a collapsing system. That’s part of the problem we’re facing now. Instead of continuing this class warfare we’re fighting, we need to straighten out our problems to return some stability to the cycle. By far, the largest hurdle is to find areas where jobs can be created. We’ve shipped so many out, there’s not too many areas left to expand here.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
2:00 pm
josef, Hello. I believe there have been studies of twins who had been separated at birth, brought up in entirely different environments, and thus realizing rather different lives for themselves. Oh, I know, the studies also demonstrated that the twins retained and/or developed rather similar personality traits. Then again, (ah, I love the Devil’s Advocate role) there is the evil twin, good twin dichotomy.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 23rd, 2010
2:03 pm
Well, the Rev. Postlewaite sure cut loose on the libruls this a.m. I bet him and this Dave R. would get along reat. The Rev. Postlewaite said if people are poor or ain’t doing good it’s either because they’re lazy bums or else God don’t like them. He still ain’t as good as the Rev. Jim Bob Buice was, but he’s getting better. And people can’t hold it against the Rev. Postlewaite just because the police found the Rev. Jim Bob buck-nekkid in the bushes with that boy.
Anyhow, it’s my birthday. I got a nice voice mail from some guy running for the state senate and wishing me a happy birthday. And my dentist sent me a e-mail and said next time I got my tooth cleaned he’d give me five bucks off. What a nice man.
Anyhow, no need for people to be on here fussing and fighting. Get outside and enjoy this sunshine. You might could meet some nice people like this Dave R. and enjoy yourself. Maybe you could compare notes about how you built your own schoolhouse and hired your own teachers and built your own roads and stuff and never relied on anybody else to be a big success.
Have a good day everybody.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm
dB
I can imagine that “WWSCD” bracelet reeks of gunpowder…
josef
I set forth my views on that at 12:54. Personal effort will get you somewhere, but there’s a limit to how far. Beyond that, it’s who you know or how much you have.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm
“When I was learning to be an educator, I was taught to consider “affective” factors in formulating a lesson plan or syllabus. “If you do not take into account the internalized individual syllabi, “I was told “You will miss so many students.”
I’m not sure how exactly you “considered the affective factors”, but you may have been doing your students a grave disservice by accommodating the lesson plans to them and not insisting it be the other way around. Why do I say that? Because once these kids hit the work world, the accommodation stops and they are expected to conform to established standards. I’m not sure of other employers’ experiences, but the youngest generation I’m working with is almost unmanageable.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm
“Too many hereabouts and elsewhere do not want to acknowledge and deal with the concept of luck of the draw when it comes to our “station in life.”
And just as many hereabouts and elsewhere give too much credence to the idea that we are born in a certain “station in life”. This isn’t India, josef. You have indicated on the blog that you were born into privilege and that it accounts for a lot of your success in life. I wasn’t born into any such privilege, nor were SC, md or a host of others I’ve met in my lifetime. I think your personal experience is coloring your view so strongly here that you ultimately are demeaning the human spirit to rise above humble beginnings.
And as I pointed out in my earlier post to SC, economic systems in which there is no hierarchy, in which everyone is “equal” have been tried time and again with the same results every time. Pupil, I assign you to reread Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm
eyes
I’ve read several of those twin studies as well. Interesting findings. I have been particularly interested in those that look at the access afforded each and the relative degree of their “success.” I make a to-do here over the various labels born in this household and, yet, at the same time I would be considered “successful” by the terms of discussion here. I would like to say it only goes to show what diligence in “overcoming” those labels can result in. The simple fact of the matter is that one, I was born into privilege as luck of the draw, and two I can easily “pass” into the mainstream, again luck of the draw. Both combine to give me access. Someone who may be far more intelligent and far harder working born into poverty and marked by physical characteristics separating them into a class apart from the mainstream will have that same access limited by “the luck of the draw.”
The first step in overcoming a problem is to admit there is a problem.
Disgusted
May 23rd, 2010
2:13 pm
I’m not sure of other employers’ experiences, but the youngest generation I’m working with is almost unmanageable.
Yes, I know. It’s hard to teach young people today how to kick the dog and stomp on people when they’re down and cheat without being caught. I don’t know what’s to become of us.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
2:15 pm
Bruno, perhaps I assumed that everyone understood affective factors. Let me explain. For example, let’s say you are blind. Your blindness will certainly affect how you will learn. I am NOT talking about changing what you will learn – that, indeed, would be a disservice. Let’s make it simple and I will use “teacherese” that all can appreciate. You are, likely aware, that we all respond to different stimuli to various degrees. Thus, some of us are more inclined to respond to a visual approach, oral/aural approach or a tactile approach. A teacher realizes these things, teaches the same content to all, but may provide an example in a slightly different way to ensure that all students are reached.
Finally, socio-economic status, cultural mores, and environment are affective factors.
RW-(the original)
May 23rd, 2010
2:18 pm
Didja ever notice that the people that are always telling us some country or another used to hate us and now they don’t also tell us they used to live there and now they don’t? Why don’t they see the correlation?
/drive by….
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
2:20 pm
RW, it is called a job. When the job ends, you go home. Or it is called military service. In my case, the Air Force reassigned me from Hokkaido, Japan to the NSA headquarters in Maryland. That OK with you?
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm
Bruno
If I get time, I’ll have to go searching for that section from Friday. I ended up pulling an almost 15 hour day (not including my 30 min lunch) that day. Yesterday was almost as long too.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm
“Finally, socio-economic status, cultural mores, and environment are affective factors.”
I was with you until you moved away from physical, documentable differences among people which affect learning ability (blindness, etc.), and crossed into nebulous, non-definable, perceptual differences between people that shouldn’t affect learning ability. Furthermore, whatever cultural mores a child learns at home are ultimately unimportant, because society at large has its own mores which trump those of the individual in a workplace environment.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
2:24 pm
Bruno
The caste system is alive and well in the United States. As for my students, I don’t accomodate “their” anything as a group…I do, however, tailor my instructional technique to the individual student. The curriculum objective is the same for all. How to get to its master is a matter of individual interest, learning style, and personal abilities.
SoCo, forgive me for appearing to speak “for you” and correct me if I’m wrong. Yes, SoCo was born into a priviledged status–a land owning, small town, educated family with strong moral and religious values, a host of good male role models…I don’t know what he looks like from these pages, but if he is light skinned, that gives him a priviledged status and opens doors for access, if he is dark skinned, then, no.
And, no, I am not “demeaning the human spirit to overcome humble beginnings.” I am demeaning the human spirit for not being able to overcome “arrogant” beginnings.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
2:25 pm
“Yes, I know. It’s hard to teach young people today how to kick the dog and stomp on people when they’re down and cheat without being caught. I don’t know what’s to become of us.”
Disgusted–You got anything in your arsenal other than personal attacks on people you’ve never met? Like maybe actual debating skills? Didn’t think so.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
2:28 pm
“If I get time, I’ll have to go searching for that section from Friday. I ended up pulling an almost 15 hour day (not including my 30 min lunch) that day. Yesterday was almost as long too.”
DebbieDoRight was steaming the place up as usual. I got her going with some Ben E King (Supernatural Thing). My contribution to the white guy/black guy thing was Bobby Caldwell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laStiu_sUd4
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:30 pm
Yes, SoCo was born into a priviledged status–a land owning, small town, educated family with strong moral and religious values, a host of
goodmale role models who showed both the right and wrong way to do things…Thought I’d help you out just a bit. I’m also of the darker skinned group. I still get a chuckle out of the stereotypical reactions I get from people when I’m not in uniform. I tend to not dress in the yuppie middle-class type dress. I’m a baggy jeans and tshirt kinda guy.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:34 pm
Bruno
He’s got some vocal cords!! I’d pay to see him perform. If there was no Michael McDonald, Doobies, or Bee Gees posted, then it was an incomplete section. I know Darryl and John got represented.
That’s why I love music so much. Soul has no color, and it’s up to the individual interpretation. Either you have it or you don’t.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
2:43 pm
SoCo
That correction on male role models is well taken. The same here, My father was “what not to do.” His brother was what to do.
Being of the darker skinned and the chuckles you get from “expectations” based on spot-on. Back in the old days when Unmentionable and I would go bar-hopping, we had to deal with being turned back at the door because we “looked like” two straight men and “why do you want to come in here?” Neither one of us being practicioners of public displays of affection, we had to, well, “show our membership cards.”
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
2:59 pm
josef
I enjoy not living to other’s “expectations”. If I did live to what other’s thought I should be, I’d either be in prison or dead.
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
3:06 pm
“That’s why I love music so much. Soul has no color, and it’s up to the individual interpretation. Either you have it or you don’t.”
I’ll second your nomination of Michael McDonald into the soul section, SC.
Maybe you can help me get my point across to josef and eyes regarding “accommodation”. In my clinic, I treat everyone exactly the same–same level of respect, same set of expectations communicated, same lingo used regardless of skin color. In return, I get a lot of positive feedback from the “darker-skinned” clients for treating them as people, as individuals, and not as members of some “group” which requires “accommodation”. I don’t think I’d get the same response if I tried to “ebono-cize” my approach. I’m a cracker and can’t pretend to be otherwise.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm
SoCo
Unmentionable’s comment is “why worry about their expectations, I’ve got enough trouble living up to my own.”
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
3:11 pm
Bruno–
What you are talking about IS accomodation. It’s called good manners in a professional environment. The old folks (and I sometimes catch myself saying the same thing) always said, “how may I accomodate you?” It simply means to make comfortable and is relative to the conditions of the situation.
Southern Comfort
May 23rd, 2010
3:19 pm
Bruno
Actually, I think all three of you are correct.
The “accomodation” you perceive they are giving the students is beneficial because it gives the students an opportunity to better understand the learning principles they should be getting. If not for their “accomodation”, they would not obtain a basic level of knowledge that would allow them to compete with everyone else on the same level.
The “accomodation” that you speak of actually handicaps because it does not allow people to see or compete on the same level. The difference between the two is age and education related.
I see it as trying to teach a lesson on reading to a class and part of the class is dyslexic. If you teach the same way for all, the kids who are dyslexic will be more at a disadvantage. By tailoring the lesson to those kids as well as the entire class, everyone gets to a basic level of knowledge together. That gives the dyslexic kids the ability to work thru their condition and achieve a goal. Doing that, they know how to work around their reading problems early so they don’t have to have special accomodations when employed later on.
That’s how I see the discussion. However, my perception could be different from what all three of you see. Whatever you do, don’t do the ebonic thing. It will ruin your reputation and affect your future interactions with your clients. You’re spot on on that!!!
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
3:20 pm
josef–Same scenario for any gay clients who come my way. Same level of respect, same expectations, same lingo–and the same gratitude in return for not letting unimportant differences intrude into our relationship. You have told me yourself that you like the fact that I don’t see you as a “gay man”–I see you as a “man”, period. Who cares about whatever else goes with it? I think that we would have a better society if we could drop the whole “group identity” thing, Northerner/Southerner being one of them. Your counterargument seems to be that these differences can’t go away, and should actually be “accommodated”.
Can you see my point here, jo? Why feed the monster?
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm
Guys–Whether any of us leaves with a different perspective or not, I appreciate the honest dialogue today, without the name-calling and political posturing that is part-and-parcel of too many posts on the JB blog.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
3:30 pm
Bruno
In the best of all possible worlds…of course…but that accomodation is a two way street…I have to accomodate myself to that which is as institutionalized in our social structure…I’ll get back with you on the northern-Southern thing, but I would venture that no small part of that is that in this instance you are the target and want to be accomodated…once we accept the basic premise that one is a man or a woman, a human individual, what kind of comes into the equation and no small part of that what kind of is relative to the social factors which came with the luck of the draw…
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
3:30 pm
Bruno, I am back, but ever so briefly. I have to get out of the house.
It would appear that we are not doing a good job of communicating. Let me try again. First, the so called “affective” factors are of various types, and it is beyond the scope of this blogosphere for me to do an adequate representation of them all. Basically, affective factors are those factors which are extra-curricular that may have an affect on one’s ability to learn the material at hand. A good teacher recognizes that such factors exist and will adapt the teaching methodology or delivery if you will (again, not the content). The goal is communication of ideas, teaching points, etc.
Here is a real case scenario. I was once approached by a parent who been through a divorce. While her boy still saw his father occasionally, it was n ot often, and he lacked the guidance of a male figure in his life. He was a smart boy, gifted, in fact, but due to some issues like the aforementioned and perhaps suffering from ADD or ADHD, he was not performing to expectations in his magnet program at school. I agreed to talk to the boy to see if I could find out anything. In the course of my talk with the middle boy, he told me, “I do not want to get good grades, because the other guys are going to give me a hard time.” Peer pressure it turns out was affecting this boy’s performance. Clearly, we had to council him to overcome the peer pressures and achieve per his God-given abilities. This required intervention and a different mode of teaching – same content, but a different approach.
It is germane to this discussion, to point out that when I was still a teacher, we were asked to attend a presentation by a sales manager. His topic was “Pacing”. We wondered then why we educators had to be lectured by a salesman. It turned out he had much to contribute. His idea was that in sales, one had to “size up” the customer and pace with him and in the process gain his trust. Years later, when I managed a Japanese multinational video game publisher, I employed that man’s technique. When I visited a New York account, I spoke fast, just like a New Yorker – no time for BS among that ilk. However, on my trips to Bentonville Arkansas to see the Walmart corp[orate buyer, I had to prepare at least a 15 minute banter on the man’s family, his son’s basketball prowess, the latest fishing trip, etc. That is the Japanese way, too, by the way. You warm up to the person before doing business with him. In Hawaii, it is shocking to see how relaxed they can be. My phone call to a distributor there was once interrupted by silence because the owner wanted a time out to listen to the rain that had started to tap against his windows.
I am not talking about changing content. I am not talking about dumbing down anything for any segment of the population. I AM talking about taking into account certain affective factors that may preclude communication. This is a bona fide practice among educators (and I suppose sales professionals) and is often discussed in language learning and linguistics classes in graduate school.
theyeshaveit
May 23rd, 2010
3:37 pm
Bruno, yes, I too appreciate the speak TO the person, rather that AT him, approach that we have all managed today.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2010
3:42 pm
As much as I am enjoying this exchange, I’m afraid it’s coming up on the Russian hour and I’ve got to get the accomodations ready! She’s not going to like the report on her meeting of expectations relative to the rule of written law and the mass migration of people as the themes of Western Civilization from Mesopotamia to Atlanta…hope to get back later with more of this as, like Bruno, I appreciate a respectful exchange of thoughts, ideas, opinions and perspectives…
Bruno
May 23rd, 2010
3:43 pm
“I’ll get back with you on the northern-Southern thing, but I would venture that no small part of that is that in this instance you are the target and want to be accomodated…”
josef–My greater point is why should birthplace be considered such an important difference that “accommodation” is required in the first place? Speaking of which, I’ve never asked anyone here in the South to change their accent or diet or anything else to “accommodate” me. All I expect is good manners, which are somehow excused if the birthplaces are different in the minds of many self-styled “Southerners”.
“In the best of all possible worlds…of course”
So why not work toward that “best of all possible worlds” by minimizing the differences between us, rather than aggrandizing and institutionalizing those differences??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
May 23rd, 2010
3:44 pm
Rep. Joe Sestak, winner of the Pennsylvania Democratic Senate primary, is refusing to provide more information on what job he was offered by a White House official to drop of that race, although he confirmed again that the incident occurred.
Oh yeah, the dummycrats would never cheat the Will of the People, why, of course not.