No racial profiling in Arizona. Or Georgia either.
UPDATE: As my colleague Jim Galloway reports, former U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal, now a leading GOP candidate for governor of Georgia, says that if elected he would try to enact a law here very similar to that passed in Arizona.
———————-
Karl Rove, speaking in a Florida retirement community as part of his book tour, expressed regret at Arizona’s passage of a harsh new immigration policy, but said he doubted it would lead to racial profiling.
“These are modern police forces that respect the rights of people in their communities,” Rove said. “They’re going to do it on the basis of reasonable suspicion that these people are here illegally, like they’re driving a car with a Mexican license plate or they can’t speak English or they don’t have a drivers license.”
That’s such a nice thought. On the other hand, there’s this:
Last week, an Arizona truck driver pulled into a commercial truck weighing station in Phoenix, as required by law. He produced a valid commercial truck license, as also required by law. But he was arrested by Immigration and Custom Enforcement officers, handcuffed, transported to ICE headquarters and held there until his wife could bring a birth certificate documenting that the man was a U.S. citizen and in fact had been born in this country.
“It’s still something awful to be targeted,” his wife told 3TV, a Phoenix TV station. “I can’t even imagine what he felt, people watching like he was some type of criminal.”
Jackie says, “It doesn’t feel like it’s a good way of life, to live with fear, even though we are okay, we are legal…still have to carry documents around.”
A representative at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) returned 3TV’s calls after researching the incident and she said this was standard operating procedure.
The agents needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone’s birth certificate. She also said this has nothing to do with the proposed bill or racial profiling.
Nothing to do with profiling. No sir. Nothing at all. I’m sure the ICE officers thought that the native-born American in question might be … what, Canadian?
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344 comments Add your comment
jewcowboy
April 28th, 2010
11:43 am
Bosch,
“Or you could have dumped a big giant glass of liquor on her head.”
And waste a perfectly good Jack and Diet. Heaven no!
“Poor kid, all traumatized before going to see Mickey Mouse.”
Yeah…that is for the 8′ tall creepy mouse to do…
md
April 28th, 2010
11:44 am
“Look @ the example of the truck driver. He produced his commercial drivers licence, and even gave the police a SSN. Was that good enough?? NOPE!”
I look at it as one of many, and do not paint with a broad brush. We have over zealous cops in every city, but I’m going to hang my hat on the majority of good ones vs the handful of bad ones.
jewcowboy
April 28th, 2010
11:44 am
md,
“I’ll take her anyday compared to a 12-15 hour flight sitting amongst a group of people from cultures that do not believe in daily bathing.”
You’ve obviously not sat next to someone who hasn’t heard that Elizabeth Taylor’s “Passion” should not be applied with a garden hose
md
April 28th, 2010
11:46 am
“That’s my culture – who needs to bathe everyday? That’s just stupid.”
Please post the days you will be flying so the rest of us can plan accordingly.
Union
April 28th, 2010
11:47 am
at LEAST one kidnapping a day in Phoenix.. but dont worry about that
JKL2
April 28th, 2010
11:48 am
md-
You should have told the cops to piss off. Then after you got arrested you would get free beer at the whitehouse!
Jack Jones
April 28th, 2010
11:49 am
MD
-you still didnt answer the question:
-Be honest with yourself and ask yourself, had that been a white, black or asian American, would that scenario or situation even have happened?.
-And even if you want to make an arguement to say all people can be questioned, thats true, but your licence and SSN would have been suffice RIGHT?
Jack Jones
April 28th, 2010
11:51 am
“at LEAST one kidnapping a day in Phoenix.. but dont worry about that”
? What was your point? One killing a day in NY…..it happens.
Are you saying the illegals or behind the kidnappings or the cartel?
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2010
11:51 am
I wish this didn’t make as much practical sense as it does, to me, right now.
What moved GOP Governor Jan Brewer to sign the Soviet-style show-me-your-papers law is the exploding number of legal Hispanics, US citizens all, who are daring to vote — and daring to vote Democratic by more than two-to-one. Unless this demographic locomotive is halted, Arizona Republicans know their party will soon be electoral toast. Or, if you like, tortillas.
[...]
State Senator Russell Pearce, the Republican sponsor of the latest ID law, gave away his real intent, blocking the vote, when he said, “There is a massive effort under way to register illegal aliens in this country.”
How many? Pearce’s PR flak told me, five million. All Democrats, too. Again, I asked Pearce’s office to give me their the names and addresses from their phony registration forms. I’d happily make a citizens arrest of each one, on camera. Pearce didn’t have five million names. He didn’t have five. He didn’t have one.
[...]
[The point is n]ot to stop non-citizens from entering Arizona — after all, who else would care for the country club lawn? — but to harass folks of the wrong color: Democratic blue.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2010
11:55 am
What was your point? One killing a day in NY…..it happens.
Are you saying the illegals or behind the kidnappings or the cartel?
Last night RW-the original linked a a rather shrill local-TeeVee news story from 2008 that claimed Phoenix had ~350 kidnappings in the previous year. I guess this has become the big rightie talking point… it’d kinda help if they could specify where the number really came from, how that compares to other metro areas, how much of this is because of actual border issues vs., you know, that drug war going on in Mexico that’d be impacting consumers and dealers of the illegal products here in the US, immigration or no immigration?
Bosch
April 28th, 2010
11:56 am
sfd,
It’s RW’s time of the month….just saying.
md
April 28th, 2010
11:57 am
“-Be honest with yourself and ask yourself, had that been a white, black or asian American, would that scenario or situation even have happened?. ”
Probably asking the wrong person, as I lean toward profiling.
If a rapist is on the loose, and is described as blank color with blank color eyes, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to look for those that don’t fit the description.
theyeshaveit
April 28th, 2010
12:01 pm
JKL2 said, “Nowreally- Legal aliens are required by law to carry their 551 (green) card with them at all times. It’s a terrible thing when a state tries to enforce something that’s already the law.
If you are an ILLEGAL alien, your crime is being here.”
First, would a legal alien who looks White or Asian be asked for their green card in Arizona? I think not. Second, do you not feel it is no big deal for brown born in this country to be pulled because a cop thinks they look suspiciously like an illegal alien? They would not have an alien card, you see.
theyeshaveit
April 28th, 2010
12:04 pm
md said, ““Look @ the example of the truck driver. He produced his commercial drivers licence, and even gave the police a SSN. Was that good enough?? NOPE!”
I look at it as one of many, and do not paint with a broad brush. We have over zealous cops in every city, but I’m going to hang my hat on the majority of good ones vs the handful of bad ones.”
md, how comforted do you think that truck driver would be by your rationalization? I suppose that you think he’d be thinking, “Ah, heck, just bad luck today. Most of these police fellows are real professional, upstanding types.”
Jack Jones
April 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
“Probably asking the wrong person, as I lean toward profiling.”
I’m sure it does, Until it interferes into your personal life and civil liberties!
JKL2
April 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
Bosch-
She’s on wick and gets utility and rent assistance. She also get alot of other things because one of her kids has a learning disability. I’m sure she could “justify” anything to prevent fraud. Doesn’t make it right.
The key to helping is taking it down to the lowest level. Sorry you don’t like getting things with strings attached. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. If your really needy you will do what you have to do. If not, I guess you didn’t really need the help in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with our current healthcare system is fraud. Good thing we made the program bigger without addressing the actual problem.
Still waiting to see where it says it’s the governments job to provide charity?
JKL2
April 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
theyeshaveit-
They will ask if they pull you over. The law doesn’t say they will pull you over because you look like you may be illegal. It says that when pulled over they can ask for your proof of citizenship(along with your driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance).
md
April 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
“md, how comforted do you think that truck driver would be by your rationalization? I suppose that you think he’d be thinking, “Ah, heck, just bad luck today. Most of these police fellows are real professional, upstanding types.”
Happens every day, and not just to people of color. What is your solution – scrap the system and do nothing?
md
April 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
“I’m sure it does, Until it interferes into your personal life and civil liberties!”
I have no problem with being asked for ID – I’ve nothing to hide.
Again, why must I carry a passport card in Mexico – to produce whenever asked – yet you oppose the same be done here?
md
April 28th, 2010
12:22 pm
Ever been to Mexico – they don’t harass the people that look like them, they harass the ones that don’t. Is it right – not necessarily, but makes more sense than looking for folks that don’t fit the description.
theyeshaveit
April 28th, 2010
12:35 pm
JKL2, I have read all 16 pages of SB 1070. Here is what is stated on the first page after the cover page.
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES.
Lawful contact is the operant expression here. No where in the law does it say that so called lawful contact need be limited to stops by a peace officer for suspicion of a traffic violation. Indeed, other agents of the government (not only peace officers) may “enforce” the law if there is suspicion. that a person is an illegal alien. Note that there is no mention of suspicion of any other violation of law.
See how this works now?
theyeshaveit
April 28th, 2010
12:42 pm
md, a citizen of this country is not required to carry a passport to travel from state to state. You have to reach back into the erstwhile iron curtain countries to see that happening. Citizens of the world carry passports to cross national borders. You wouldn’t be advocating Soviet style domestic passports, would you?
KingMax
April 28th, 2010
12:59 pm
Isn’t it interesting that the lily-white conservatives who whine about the excesses of governmental power have no problem when the excesses are applied to brown-skinned people? Imagine, fellow citizen, traveling to another state and some cop says, “Hey, white boy, let’s see your birth certificate. You don’t look like you should be here.” And if you don’t produce it, off to jail you go. And where were the so-called conservatives when the Bush administration was shredding the Bill of Rights in the name of “homeland security”? Here again, these were just brown-skinned Muslim-types who were affected. But perhaps they’re just a bunch of frightened sheep worried about (dark-skinned) terrorists under their beds or Latino gang members on the street corners (or a black man as President).
md
April 28th, 2010
1:07 pm
“Hey, white boy, let’s see your birth certificate. You don’t look like you should be here.”
Actually, I for one would have no problem as there are many white illegals too. Lets just check everybody and get it over with.
heartlandboy
April 28th, 2010
1:09 pm
“Show me your papers.” –The Gestapo
md
April 28th, 2010
1:11 pm
“See how this works now?”
“The state’s new immigration enforcement law is designed to mirror federal immigration laws. Federal law already requires aliens to register and carry their documents with them. The new Arizona law simply does the same thing. Because illegal immigrants are by definition in violation of federal immigration laws, they can now be arrested. ”
Yes, I do.
KingMax
April 28th, 2010
1:19 pm
md – you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the rights of US citizens and how this law can be misapplied to US citizens, not how it can be used against illegal aliens. That’s the point that you can’t seem to grasp.
Jack Jones
April 28th, 2010
1:21 pm
Actually, I for one would have no problem as there are many white illegals too. Lets just check everybody and get it over with.”
What happens after you check everyone? Deportation?
md
April 28th, 2010
1:22 pm
No King – I grasp it quite well. We have a problem with illegals in the country. And since we have a problem, a solution must be found. As a citizen, I have no problem doing my part as a law abiding citizen to correct the problem.
How about you? What is your solution since you don’t like this one?
md
April 28th, 2010
1:24 pm
“What happens after you check everyone? Deportation?”
Why not let the millions of immigrants waiting in line to get in legally vote on that one. How many of those do you care about?
KingMax
April 28th, 2010
1:34 pm
md – First and foremost, we need tougher enforcement measures against those who hire illegals in the first place. Most illegals, people, come here to make money and to have a better life. If they can’t make the money, they’re less likely to try to come here. Of course, Americans will have to be prepared to pay more for fruits, vegetables, chicken, beef, as well as for other goods and services we want, That part of the illegal immigration equation always seems to be overlooked.
Crenshaw8
April 28th, 2010
1:38 pm
Standing up for lawbreakers may make the libs feel good about themselves but it does nothing to serve this country’s interests.
md
April 28th, 2010
1:41 pm
“Of course, Americans will have to be prepared to pay more for fruits, vegetables, chicken, beef, as well as for other goods and services we want, That part of the illegal immigration equation always seems to be overlooked.”
I say this is bogus. You actually believe the folks doing this work are all illegal? Don’t you think legal immigrants would do it too, along with guest workers? You make all the illegals legal, they aren’t going to quit doing the work. There are millions, and I mean millions, wanting to come here legally – don’t you think they deserve a chance at these jobs? Sure beats the conditions they currently live in, and most are destined to live in forever, especially since we have so many that cut in line.
md
April 28th, 2010
1:47 pm
What happened to that “beacon of freedom” that this country is supposed to be? What message do you think we send when we make millions of people wait years to come in legally, yet do nothing about the ones that cut in line?
I’d say we are big hypocrites – that’s what we are.
Jack Jones
April 28th, 2010
1:57 pm
“Standing up for lawbreakers may make the libs feel good about themselves but it does nothing to serve this country’s interests.”
Dude, we arent talking about the lawbreakers, we are talking about the Hispanic Americans (or the likes of) who will have to live their days, day in and day out PROFILED. That’s not right and the POWER of officers to inq. about papers from anyone, because “illegals” are not just one race.
KingMax
April 28th, 2010
1:58 pm
md – I’m surprised at you. You’re admitting we need these people. That’s a good argument for amnesty.
Crenshaw – Is that all you have to offer? “standing up for lawbreakers?” How about this, “you stupid liberals” or “you Commie scum”? Please spare us your “insights”.
Ivan
April 28th, 2010
2:03 pm
The Nazi state of Arizona refused to recognize MLK day as a national holiday years ago. Now, with its racist law, that monster Brewer will make sure a just and comprehensive immigration reform gets done this year. Racism always loses in America. Governor Brewer, God and history will judge you harshly. May your name be cursed forever, you sad excuse for a human being!!!
md
April 28th, 2010
2:57 pm
“md – I’m surprised at you. You’re admitting we need these people. That’s a good argument for amnesty.”
No, I’m admitting that there are millions wanting to come here legally that would gladly take a job that pays 20x what they make where they are.
Amnesty? We already tried that – didn’t work out too well, only compounded the problem.
I’ll ask you again, why do you not care about the ones that are waiting – legally?
Alex
April 28th, 2010
3:36 pm
I am somewhat familiar with the incident you cite. ICE is a federal agency and this check was conducted under federal law and not under state law. There was something incorrect about this individuals Commercial Drivers License. A truck driver’s CDL and logs are normally checked at a truck weigh station. Since a multiple fatality bus crash here in Arizona, a month ago, ICE has been checking the status of all drivers who pass through a truck weigh station and whose documentation was faulty. This individual was checked because he did not have the correct current documents to be driving that truck. ICE is therefore reauired to run further checks on the individual.
Gavin Newsome
April 28th, 2010
3:58 pm
Deport all illegals to San Francisco.
john
April 28th, 2010
9:59 pm
Maintaining perspective is critical here. We do not have months or years available to get to know every single person we come in contact with each day. Here’s an easy method for quickly evaluating a person, or even a company, or a product, http://bit.ly/4CmXLG
Jillian Galloway
April 28th, 2010
11:47 pm
Legalize marijuana in Georgia and across the nation!
al
April 29th, 2010
3:48 am
Almost all racist violent crimes are carried out by those of Northern European descent, we should send them all back to Germany and other Northern European countries since they have a history of murdering Native American men, women and children and enslaving African Americans. There are also a lot of illegal Canadians here who need to be caught, so we should stop all Northern European looking people and make sure they are not here illegally from Canada or maybe they are part of those White polygamous communities. While we are at it, let’s stop all Sicilian-looking people since they might be part of the Italian Mafia. Let’s see, what other groups do the crazy media in this country have us hating???
Javier
May 1st, 2010
9:38 pm
If ICE arrested him it was not because of a state law. ICE is federal you liberal pinhead. I sure wish Mr Obama would produce his birth certificate. Jay and Comrade Cindy will wet their pants when we find out Mr Obama is a Kenyan by birth and ineligible to be POTUS. ooooops!