Filibustering GOP still doing Wall Street’s dirty work
The human capacity to rationalize on its own behalf is enormous, as demonstrated by the ethical musings of one “Fabulous Fab” Tourre, the Goldman Sachs trader now at the center of a civil suit filed by the SEC. In an email to his girlfriend on Jan. 27, 2007, Tourre agonized about the impending collapse of the subprime market and the pain it would cause, but quickly tried to banish such thoughts from his mind:
“Anyway, not feeling too guilty about this, the real purpose of my job is to make capital markets more efficient and ultimately provide the U.S. consumer with more efficient ways to leverage and finance himself, so there is a humble, noble and ethical reason for my job
amazing how good I am in convincing myself !!!”
But he wasn’t quite as convinced as he wanted to be. In another email, written just two days later, he confessed:
“When I think that I had some input into the creation of this product (which by the way is a product of pure intellectual masturbation, the type of thing which you invest telling yourself: “Well, what if we created a “thing,” which has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical and which nobody knows how to price?”) it sickens the heart to see it shot down in mid-flight…It’s a little like Frankenstein turning against his own inventor
That thing “that has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical” was of course synthetic collateralized debt obligations, or CDOs. As Tourre acknowledged, the sole purpose of synthetic CDOs was to facilitate the betting of hundreds of billions of dollars by so-called “investors” who in reality were gambling with the global economy at the Goldman Sachs casino that masqueraded as a bank.
Reading those and other emails, I couldn’t help but think of similar rationalizations by Tourre’s boss at Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein. In a profile in the Times of London last year, Blankfein described Goldman as “doing God’s work.” And when asked whether it was possible that Wall Street bankers were being paid too much money in ways that distorted the economy, he got downright indignant:
“Is it possible to have too much ambition? Is it possible to be too successful?” Blankfein shoots back. “I don’t want people in this firm to think that they have accomplished as much for themselves as they can and go on vacation. As the guardian of the interests of the shareholders and, by the way, for the purposes of society, I’d like them to continue to do what they are doing. I don’t want to put a cap on their ambition. It’s hard for me to argue for a cap on their compensation.”
Blankfein, Tourre and other Goldman officials are testifying this morning before a Senate investigative committee. (You can watch it here.) That will probably be followed later in the day by another Senate vote on whether to proceed with debate and amendments to a Wall Street reform bill.
Yesterday, every Republican senator in the chamber voted against allowing the bill to proceed, effectively blocking its passage. According to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the GOP opposes the bill because it isn’t hard enough on Wall Street, a claim that doesn’t pass the laugh test. Do you honestly believe — and I stress that word “honestly” — that Senate Republicans are waging this fight in order to tighten regulation of Wall Street?
If Republicans truly want to tighten the bill, they ought to allow debate to proceed. They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public. If Republicans really want to tighten regulation, if Democrats really are trying to pass a sweetheart bill for Wall Street, then the GOP should be eager to have that debate on the Senate floor with the country watching.
But they aren’t. Instead, McConnell and his colleagues want the bill withdrawn back behind closed doors, where deals can be quietly cut and tough provisions can be gutted without anyone hearing the screams. And like Tourre, they have no doubt tried to convince themselves that there are “humble, noble and ethical reasons” for doing so.
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245 comments Add your comment
getalife
April 27th, 2010
11:11 am
Filling up their bribe chest for 10.
It will pass and be full of loop holes.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
11:18 am
Jay:
When can someone make Senators and Congressmen/women testify under oath (liberal and conservative) as to their true motives. That would be better for the country than any law passed this year !
Throw in the President too.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
11:20 am
Jay, I am sure you will get a lot of post demands about how the Republicans are wrong and this is part of transparency and open government and should be permitted….really…Hold your breath.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
11:24 am
Ummm Scout… the fact that you claim you are in law enforcement is scary….I mean now we have to have “testimony” about “true motives”…..and how exactly is this decided?
There is no ability to “determine.” We do this by having open government and disclosure of interests and donations….
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
11:27 am
All of a sudden, I thinkin’ about my garden and doing some ho-ing. Or is that hoeing.
md
April 27th, 2010
11:34 am
“If Republicans truly want to tighten the bill, they ought to allow debate to proceed. They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public. ”
Even Olympia now knows better. Fool her once…………
AmVet
April 27th, 2010
11:36 am
I suspect the Democrats will pay for that debacle called “health care reform” come November.
Watered down give aways to BIG pharma and BIG insurance among others.
Now the GOP is gonna give them that and more right back on this “finance reform” issue.
The laugher is that the neo-cons are likely right – this bill goes nowhere near far enough to reign in the banksters and casino capitalists.
BUT…the last laugh is gonna be one them, as JB notes. Who really believes these far right wing criminal coddlers are pushing for REAL reform?
Only their gullible base, who are not terribly interested in reality…
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
11:36 am
Tax Payer, I sure hope that you do not have a “ho” in your garden.
md
April 27th, 2010
11:37 am
“Yesterday, every Republican senator in the chamber voted against allowing the bill to proceed, effectively blocking its passage.”
Let’s not leave out the fact that Sen Nelson sided with the reps at the request/advice/suggestion of one Warren Buffet, financial King of the democratic party.
Jay
April 27th, 2010
11:37 am
The markets’ collapse became quite clear almost two years ago, and we’re rushing reform by acting now, in 2010?
No, not hardly.
What Wall Street and the GOP want regarding financial reform is exactly what the state Legislature wanted regarding ethics reform earlier this year. They want to delay and postpone action until the attention goes elsewhere and the demands for reform fade away, so they can return to doing things the way they always did.
Let’s not pretend otherwise.
Jay
April 27th, 2010
11:40 am
I agree on Nelson, md. In fact, he reinforces my point.
Nelson could propose an amendment to protect Buffett on the Senate floor during debate, but he doesn’t dare. He’d rather cut that deal in private.
Susan Collins is questioning now.
pat
April 27th, 2010
11:44 am
If fillibustering prevents yet another large segment of the economy being put under the control of the federal governement, I am all for it. I’d rather have the status quo and suffer another collapse than have the governement screw yet another thing up.
The governement took control of health care and as a result, it’s drivimg medical costs up. Oh goodie just what we needed, higer taxes AND higher medical costs.
I don’t trust this admistration to stack toothpicks with out screwing it up.
md
April 27th, 2010
11:45 am
Sorry Jay, the dems are the ones that spoiled the barrel. Snowe is one of the most moderate reps in the Senate, and tried hard to do her part in the hc debate. It was her vote that got it out of committee, only to be shut out once it got on the floor. She learned the hard way – want compromise now, then keep it off the floor until compromise is reached.
Night Train
April 27th, 2010
11:48 am
Just like the Healthcare Bill?
“They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public. “
Mick
April 27th, 2010
11:51 am
Republican congress 1994 – 2006 in the federal gov’t, republican legislature in both houses including the governor from 1998 – 2010 in florida, republicans have proven that it is in the best interests of the states and federal gov’t that they should stay or be the permanent minority, when they get the chance to try to govern, they don’t. In the case of the federal gov’t they screwed it up so bad that no matter what the democrats do it will take time to fix the mess. Then while that is being attempted, lay all the blame on the democrats. At the state level here in florida, the state education budget is in shambles even though we have the lottery! Republicans have been vindictive and not in tune with the dire straits, it is a failure of leadership on a grand scale. Make no mistake the democrats are far from perfect but at least they have some interest for the common man. The republicans are all about tax cutting and laying waste to good, effective government. They had their chance and all over this country they have blown it – never trust republicans to make gov’t work, they are all about dismantling and weakening it in good times or bad.
stands for decibels
April 27th, 2010
11:52 am
I don’t want to put a cap on their ambition.
One would have to have a heart of stone not to say in response, “How about we put a cap in yo’ ass instead?”
stands for decibels
April 27th, 2010
11:53 am
If fillibustering prevents yet another large segment of the economy being put under the control of the federal governement, I am all for it.
Pat, I’ve not checked lately–is water still wet? Bear still doing its business in the woods? Pope still Catholic?
AmVet
April 27th, 2010
11:55 am
“They want to delay and postpone action until the attention goes elsewhere…”
But this issue – the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism – is so enormous and so devastating, that it is unique. In scope and effect.
Millions and millions of Americans harmed for no good reason. And they are FINALLY awakened, unlike their once fearless leader, DickHead Cheney who said, “Don’t blame Bush, nobody saw this coming”.
A true professional liar and thief. Enabled by sycophants and Uncle Sam haters.
Though the modus operandi, I don’t think the average ADD American, who lost his job, career, home, etc, is just going to be willing to sweep what happened under carpet this time.
Two years on and the conned want to drag their feet some more.
The Party of Denial…
Del
April 27th, 2010
11:56 am
Obowma was the recipient of a one million dollar contribution from Goldman Sachs. The congressional Democrats got about 60% of the Wall Street contributions and we have B.O. Harry Reid ET All pretending to be populist advocates for the people on Main Street. Talk about sanctimony. Nelson had it right when he said he couldn’t vote in favor of a bill he hadn’t sufficiently studied and also had discussions with the Republican side. Nelsons way of thinking isn’t shared by his counterparts in the democrat controlled congressional lemming herd who just vote in favor of whatever they’re told to vote for without any of their own analysis.
md
April 27th, 2010
11:59 am
“Republican congress 1994 – 2006 in the federal gov’t”
Now Mick, one must also remember that the last balanced federal budget had a GOP Congress. Balanced gov’t is the answer, not shutting out one side or the other. When one side is dominate, we get “agenda” bills vs compromise. I prefer the compromise, as both parties are too far from the middle.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
12:01 pm
“Obowma was the recipient of a one million dollar contribution from Goldman Sachs”
No, he wasn’t. Try checking your “facts” before you spout them all over this blog. It was the EMPLOYEES of GS that donated to his campaign. There’s a BIG difference. People ARE still allowed to contribute to campaigns, you know.
“President Barack Obama doesn’t plan to give back almost $1 million in campaign contributions from employees of Goldman Sachs Group Inc”
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-22/obama-doesn-t-intend-to-give-back-goldman-donations-update1-.html
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:05 pm
md
OK but what happened in 98? Clinton impeached – waste of time, money, and security (our enemies were plotting against us during the distraction). Irresponsible tax cuts to the tune of 1.2 trillion plus the iraq debacle another 1.2 trillion. You’re the man of fiscal responsibility and warning of debt overload. Say what you will about the stimulus at least it was money for people in this country. The repubs have obstructed everything – they are led by fools..
md
April 27th, 2010
12:09 pm
“Clinton impeached – waste of time, money, and security (our enemies were plotting against us during the distraction).”
Well…..I see both sides of that equation, one got stupid which led the others to get stupid.
And as for the wars – correct me if I’m wrong, but both “sides” voted for that spending, and continue to do so, so spare me the good vs bad on that one.
Del
April 27th, 2010
12:10 pm
Doggone/GA,
People ARE allowed to contribute. Really, you sound a little naive. I think you need to understand the campaign contribution process before you tell me or anyone what they can post.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
12:13 pm
And as for the wars – correct me if I’m wrong, but both “sides” voted for that spending, and continue to do so, so spare me the good vs bad on that one.
At the time, I think it was a unifying, patriotic-type reaction that both “sides” voted for that. As more came out, I remember one “side” being attacked as “Un-Patriotic” if they did not give in to everything the President and Congress wanted done. I could be wrong though, as my memory sometimes fails me.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:16 pm
md
It is not always a balanced equation. Which side has inflicted more economic damage the past ten years? You seem to be real sympathetic to the republican/corporatist ideology, there is no perfect model but I would lean on throwing my support to the worker/common man in most cases.
md
April 27th, 2010
12:16 pm
“Say what you will about the stimulus at least it was money for people in this country.”
Not nearly enough people in this country, and don’t forget, it is also “people in this country” that must pay for it. Putting money in one pocket then taking it out of the other, or the pocket of your kids.
md
April 27th, 2010
12:19 pm
“I remember one “side” being attacked as “Un-Patriotic” if they did not give in to everything the President and Congress wanted done.”
You mean the side that could care less what others thought when passing the hc bill? Just an excuse for the decision they didn’t make.
Night Train
April 27th, 2010
12:21 pm
SoCo, “I remember one “side” being attacked as “Un-Patriotic” if they did not give in to everything the President and Congress wanted done.”
Something like what is happening now with health care?
md
April 27th, 2010
12:23 pm
“You seem to be real sympathetic to the republican/corporatist ideology, there is no perfect model but I would lean on throwing my support to the worker/common man in most cases.”
Are corporations not the worker/common man? WE are corporations, WE want them to succeed. If they fail, WE fail.
WE are owners, employees, shareholders, investors, etc etc. As a union man Mick, where does your union invest your pension?
pat
April 27th, 2010
12:25 pm
Do you even know what’s in the bill? Or will anything do so long as it’s called reform and your frat boy obama says its good? Because it’s a bad, stupid bill. What killed wall street is easy to fix, you don’t need “sweeping” legislation to do it. Maybe if the SEC wasn’t so busy watching porn, they could have caught some of problems before the colapse.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
12:27 pm
md/Night Train
Yep, exactly like what went down with health care. Two wrongs don’t make a right, although three lefts do!!
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
12:27 pm
“before you tell me or anyone what they can post.”
I call ‘em as I see ‘em. Try posting the truth for once. If it’s a lie it’ll get called. If not by me, by someone else who is able to look things up on the internet and verify or refute them. Something that seems to have slipped past your ability to do.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:29 pm
md
Interesting juxtaposition – you are comparing a vote to go to war with all the death and destruction that goes with it and a healthcare bill which strives however imperfectly, to help people get coverage with pre-existing conditions or availability to qualify for coverage? Think about it, one vote helps lives the other wastes lives, how does that compare?
Normal
April 27th, 2010
12:29 pm
Off topic…so sue me. This kinda reminds me of the beginnings of the Cuban missle Crisis back in ‘62…
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/04/ap_pentagon_venezuela_iran_042710/
Scout
April 27th, 2010
12:30 pm
Keep up the good fight! :
If you know anything about criminals you know they have “motives”! Testifying under oath has a way of forcing one to come clean or to incriminate themselves or taking the 5th. In either case, we would have a better picture of “many” of our representatives who are into nothing less than bribery and extortion.
P.S. “Retired”
Normal
April 27th, 2010
12:31 pm
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:29 pm
I think I see md’s reasoning…the more dead there are, the less healthcare is needed…
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:33 pm
WE are corporations, WE want them to succeed. If they fail, WE fail.
No, we are not the corporations, we are the gov’t. I don’t have a problem with corporations per se, I guess it wasn’t so obnoxious when the corporate big wigs were only making 80 times the amount of the workers, but now that they are making in excess of 400 times and worker pay has flatlined for the past 30 years – something is seriously out of whack.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
12:34 pm
“If you know anything about criminals you know they have “motives”!”
and motive is not required for a conviction. Newspapers, and their readers, like motives…but if the evidence is sufficient then the criminal can be convicted, even if it’s not clear WHY he committed the crime.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
12:39 pm
Are corporations not the worker/common man?
No.
WE are corporations, WE want them to succeed. If they fail, WE fail.
At least you’re honest about your corporate worship
TnGelding
April 27th, 2010
12:40 pm
Well, I’m sure the bill could be improved. But regulating Wall Street is a fantasy. The only thing you can do is prosecute the villains after the fact and try to send a message that unethical practices will not be tolerated.
jefferson
April 27th, 2010
12:41 pm
Bankers have the GOP and their minions in their pocket.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
12:41 pm
“The only thing you can do is prosecute the villains after the fact and try to send a message that unethical practices will not be tolerated”
But that’s true of ANY law. But you DO have to have something defined as illegal before you can prosecute for it.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
12:42 pm
“Think about it, one vote helps lives the other wastes lives, how does that compare?”
Mick–If you can move beyond the “compassion” argument, you have to admit that the hc bill is nothing but a big money-waster. If you want “universal coverage”, then single payer/socialized medicine is the only sensible solution. The mandated purchase of insurance is not a “step in the right direction” by a longshot, though the lefties continue to try to portray it that way.
SC–I missed you the other night with my Main Ingredient selection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5-xPbpE00
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
12:42 pm
md has you on the corporations thingy, Mick. The Supremes have done ruled that a corporation is a person. It walks, it talks, it thinks, it votes. It just doesn’t pay taxes. HEY! THAT’S NOT FAIR!
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
12:42 pm
Mick
The comparison makes sense when you look at it from different perspectives. People will always see what they perceive. That’s why I always say that two people can see the exact same thing and give two completely different descriptions and both be correct.
Union
April 27th, 2010
12:43 pm
I like the democratic model for contributions.. you are forced to give.. then you don’t have a say in who they are donated to.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
12:44 pm
What we need is the FairTax™ so everyone will get their monthly prebate check and then everyone will have government money to buy food and clothing and shelter and health insurance and… .
md
April 27th, 2010
12:47 pm
Kam and Mick,
Where are your pensions invested? Do you want them to fail?
And you guys seem to be overlooking small business – they are corporations too. You guys want mom and pop to fail too?
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
12:47 pm
“and motive is not required for a conviction. Newspapers, and their readers, like motives…but if the evidence is sufficient then the criminal can be convicted, even if it’s not clear WHY he committed the crime.”
By this line of reasoning, I presume that you oppose “hate crimes” legislation, then?
“The comparison makes sense when you look at it from different perspectives. People will always see what they perceive. That’s why I always say that two people can see the exact same thing and give two completely different descriptions and both be correct.”
Which is the premise of Linear Algebra, of course. I’m reading an interesting book on Projective Geometry right now, which is essentially Geometry using only the straight edge for construction. In that world, neither angles or distances are fixed. It is the type of geometry which allows artists to create “depth” in 2-dimensional drawings.
md
April 27th, 2010
12:50 pm
“I think I see md’s reasoning…the more dead there are, the less healthcare is needed…”
Evidently you don’t see it – the only case I made was that both sides voted for a war in which Mick unfairly attributes to one “side”, whereas only one side voted for the hc debacle which did not correct the problem.
Union
April 27th, 2010
12:52 pm
nothing wrong with wall street..
Feb 10, 2010 Bloomberg
The former president, speaking in an interview, said in response to a question that while $17 million is “an extraordinary amount of money” for Main Street, “there are some baseball players who are making more than that and don’t get to the World Series either, so I’m shocked by that as well.”
“I know both those guys; they are very savvy businessmen,” Bush said in the interview yesterday with Bloomberg BusinessWeek, which will appear on newsstands Friday. “I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free- market system.”
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
12:52 pm
md,
“Even Olympia now knows better.”
You know why, right?
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
12:53 pm
“Susan Collins is questioning now.”
Who is, Deputy Goddess of the Senate.
ty webb
April 27th, 2010
12:53 pm
ah yes, those evil corporations. Jobs…we don’t need their stinkin jobs. And are insurance companies corporations? If so, it seems our president, by mandating everyone buy insurance from said corporations, must also be a “corporatist”(whatever that means). Say it isn’t so. I thought he was for the little guy.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
12:53 pm
Where are your pensions invested? Do you want them to fail?
Ah yes, the “rising tide lifts all boats” meme. The only problem is that it presupposes everyone owns a boat.
Steven Daedalus
April 27th, 2010
12:54 pm
Face folks, its almost over, I’m glad my days are almost over, with the Repuds and Y
Tea Idiots, America as we know it is gone, Mad Max here we come.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
12:54 pm
Bruno @ 12:47:
Thank you. They just like to be argumentative.
To All My Liberal Friends:
” (Franklin) Graham, who has overseen several initiatives to help people in Muslim countries, told Fox News last week that he loves the people of Islam. But he added, “I do not agree with their religion at all. And if you look at what the religion does just to women, women alone, it is just horrid. And so yes, I speak out for women. I speak out for people that live under Islam, that are enslaved by Islam and I want them to know that they can be free.”
O.K. all you N.O.W. ladies ……….. where are you? Cowering under your liberalism?
Del
April 27th, 2010
12:55 pm
Doggone?USA,
You can just keep on drinking the Kool Aid spinning it out and believing you’re in touch but I don’t care to waste any more time replying to you.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
12:57 pm
md
How does this morph into me wanting corporations to fail? Do they possess too much power and control? I think so. Do they exploit workers and resources? Again, I think so. Should they be regulated so all can participate on a level playing field? Yes, absolutely. Capitalism during the 1950’s and 1060’s was much more cohesive and balanced. Today we have predatory capitalism which wipes out the economic sustainablity of the many, for enrichment of the few.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
12:57 pm
“The Supremes have done ruled that a corporation is a person.”
Can you show me a corporation which isn’t a person, or group of people? Without corporate personhood, signing contracts or pursuing liability would be nearly impossible. BTW, the concept was supported by an SC case in 1819–I’m sure that’s what you’re referring to.
“It walks, it talks, it thinks, it votes. It just doesn’t pay taxes.”
Whatever taxes I don’t pay through my corporation, I pay as an individual. Ditto for anyone else who owns/works for a corporation. Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
1:00 pm
“By this line of reasoning, I presume that you oppose “hate crimes” legislation, then?”
Yes, actually…I do.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:01 pm
“Ah yes, the “rising tide lifts all boats” meme. The only problem is that it presupposes everyone owns a boat.”
True, some don’t have one, but even the unions, the bastion of little guys, have pensions. Every one of them invested in corporations.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
1:02 pm
“but I don’t care to waste any more time replying to you.”
Awww, gee. Del doesn’t like me anymore. I think I’ll go off in a corner and cry. Not.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:03 pm
Mick – I’m just responding to your assumptions. I believe it was you that painted me as a “corporatist”. If believing in corporations and the free market makes me a corporatist, then so be it.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
1:05 pm
“Evidently you don’t see it – the only case I made was that both sides voted for a war in which Mick unfairly attributes to one “side”
Ditto for the Patriot Act and the financial deregulation that contributed to the financial meltdown. I’m not sure why so many on the left are loathe to admit that when the votes are all documented.
On a personal note, md, do you have any feeling about the short-term prospects of JASO? I missed an opportunity to sell it at $6.48 per share a few weeks ago, and am now concerned about it tanking again this summer when Germany pulls back on its subsidies.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
1:07 pm
You can just keep on drinking the Kool Aid…
But sometimes it’s good “to think outside the box” and “wipe the slate clean.” If we all “put our nose to the grindstone,” then no one “will be left at the altar.” Obviously some are “laughing all the way to the bank,” but I feel the “he who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword.” The notion that this is ” mission critical” and we should all be “firing on all eight cylinders” will help all of us to “get our arms around this” and see “the complete picture.”
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:08 pm
Can you show me a corporation which isn’t a person, or group of people?
Just as soon as you can show me a corporation that can walk into a voting booth and punch in its choice, right after it shows its photo ID, of course.
Del
April 27th, 2010
1:09 pm
Doggone?GA,
You don’t have to cry. I don’t like nor dislike you because I don’t even know you personally accept that you seem to be unaware of fact beyond spin you pick up from the internet. Probably from far left blogs but that’s okay with me.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:10 pm
“Capitalism during the 1950’s and 1060’s was much more cohesive and balanced. Today we have predatory capitalism which wipes out the economic sustainability of the many, for enrichment of the few.”
Huh? It’s always been survival of the fittest, from day one. Don’t take care of the customer – go bye bye.
Is reform needed at the top of large publicly traded companies? I would go along with that. The good ole boy system needs to end. But it won’t, as it includes our politicians. Since they are joined at the hip, don’t look for changes anytime soon.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
**If believing in corporations and the free market makes me a corporatist, then so be it.**
I don’t have an issue with your beliefs, I have an issue with corporate behavior and it is my personal opinion that their actions in pursuit of the maximum profit rigged for the CEO’s, even if their company fails, is destroying faith in our capitalist system. Not to mention taking jobs out of the country for cheaper labors costs which is basicall un-american – look where we are at heading into the future – looks like a pretty bleak landscape to me.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
Whatever taxes I don’t pay through my corporation, I pay as an individual. Ditto for anyone else who owns/works for a corporation. Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other.
Perhaps Exxon and GE will share some of their secrets to avoiding paying taxes with you, if you ask real nice.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
“Is it possible to have too much ambition? Is it possible to be too successful?” Blankfein shoots back. “I don’t want people in this firm to think that they have accomplished as much for themselves as they can and go on vacation. As the guardian of the interests of the shareholders and, by the way, for the purposes of society, I’d like them to continue to do what they are doing. I don’t want to put a cap on their ambition. It’s hard for me to argue for a cap on their compensation.”
So what is it that you socialists don’t understand?
Not all of us want to lay in bed and get a check from government, just, um, sayin…
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
“You don’t have to cry.”
Wow! Only took you 15 minutes to go back on your vow not to “waste” anymore time replying to me.
TaxPayer, Inc.
April 27th, 2010
1:12 pm
Enter your comments here
Normal
April 27th, 2010
1:13 pm
They’re rioting in Africa
They’re starving in Spain
There’s hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain
the Whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don’t like Anybody very much.
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man’s been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud
And we know for certain that some lucky day
Someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away
They’re rioting in Africa
There’s strife in Iran
What nature doesn’t do to us
Will be done by our fellow Man
– Sheldon Harnick @1958
Will be done by our fellow Man….will, is, has been…for ever after.
ALL things remain the same.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:13 pm
“On a personal note, md, do you have any feeling about the short-term prospects of JASO?”
I bought in as a penny stock with intentions of long term hold – they have new technology that will take years to implement. I’m betting on the long term growth of solar.
danjonglee
April 27th, 2010
1:13 pm
adding another 25,000 porn watching SEC Agents ought to fix the problem..
TaxPayer, Inc.
April 27th, 2010
1:14 pm
I’m hungry. What does a corporation eat. (Don’t answer that.)
Union
April 27th, 2010
1:14 pm
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
Perhaps Exxon and GE will share some of their secrets to avoiding paying taxes with you, if you ask real nice.
huh? They do pay taxes.. they pay billions in taxes..
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:14 pm
**Face folks, its almost over, I’m glad my days are almost over, with the Repuds and Y
Tea Idiots, America as we know it is gone, Mad Max here we come.**
I’m usually pretty optimistic, but you may have a point there..
Rightwing Troll
April 27th, 2010
1:15 pm
“Evidently you don’t see it – the only case I made was that both sides voted for a war in which Mick unfairly attributes to one “side””
Which side made the argument for that war?
Blondie, Inc.
April 27th, 2010
1:16 pm
I eat cars and bars and…
danjonglee
April 27th, 2010
1:16 pm
didnt Harry Reid vote no?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 27th, 2010
1:18 pm
Gosh, how easy it was to open the closed doors and “hear the screams,” lo and behold, they were coming from dummycrats who want to spend, er, waste, more of your money-
“It is important for the country and taxpayer that we get this right, that we put them before politics. That’s why I was disappointed to read that Senate Democrats are refusing to drop the $50 billion bailout fund—a fund that the Treasury Secretary himself opposes—unless Republicans pay a price for taking it out. This is exactly what Americans don’t like about Washington: when one side tries to ‘get’ something for doing what they should have done in the first place. If everyone agrees it should be dropped, then it should be dropped. And if Senate Democrats think it should stay, then they should explain why they think the Treasury Secretary was wrong when he said that this bailout fund ‘would create expectations that the government would step in to protect shareholders and creditors from losses.’
“Both sides have expressed a willingness to make the changes needed to ensure without any doubt that this bill won’t put taxpayers on the hook for future bailouts of Wall Street banks. Let’s just do that.
You have to be utterly stupid not to realize that this is more of the same thing that brought about this Great Recession we are in, dummycrats guaranteeing the risky behavior of the bankers, using the money of We The People to do it with.
But then again, maybe I’m just smarter than you are…..
Normal
April 27th, 2010
1:19 pm
“As the guardian of the interests of the shareholders and, by the way, for the purposes of society, I’d like them to continue to do what they are doing. I don’t want to put a cap on their ambition. It’s hard for me to argue for a cap on their compensation.”
I would have no argument with that, if they hadn’t been dismal failures.
You don’t have to put a cap on their ambition…just dun their stupidity.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:20 pm
“I have an issue with corporate behavior and it is my personal opinion that their actions in pursuit of the maximum profit rigged for the CEO’s, even if their company fails”
Slippery slope on that one – kind of like testing and teacher salaries. A lot of variables come into play, and none alike.
“Not to mention taking jobs out of the country for cheaper labors costs which is basicall un-american”
Another catch-22. Folks want cheap products and high salaries – the 2 don’t co-exist very well. As costs rise, prices rise, as prices rise demand drops, demand drops, costs need to drop – never ending cycle.
Del
April 27th, 2010
1:21 pm
“didn’t Harry Reid vote no?”
Harry’s procedural gimmick, so it can be brought back up for vote this afternoon.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:22 pm
huh? They do pay taxes.. they pay billions in taxes..
So let’s mince words
… In any case, the original story is wrong in this respect: According to the 10-K, a screenshot of which is provided below, ExxonMobil didn’t have a zero-tax liability in 2009; it was actually owed $46 million by the IRS, against $15.1 billion in foreign taxes owed. As Jeffers says, that may not be the case; but it’s what ExxonMobil told the SEC, its shareholders, and the world. And since the firm refuses to share its actual tax numbers with the public, it’s all we have to go by.
Finn McCool
April 27th, 2010
1:22 pm
LOL, good one, I Absorb
A quote by tortoise Mitch McConnel and have no doubt he has America’s best interests in mind.
md
April 27th, 2010
1:24 pm
“Which side made the argument for that war?”
Doesn’t much matter unless one is a side chooser. It is what it is, and both “sides” voted for it.
Unless you are making a case that one side “forced” the other, then that’s just silly.
Finn McCool
April 27th, 2010
1:25 pm
I hear the Republicans might introduce their own bill.
Why didn’t they do this to begin with? What have they been doing the last year and a half? They weren’t busy working on the health care bill. What are they doing with their time? Watching ESPN Classic?
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:27 pm
Which side made the argument for that war?
Why, it was Clinton. George Clinton. Our nation’s first black president.
stands for decibels
April 27th, 2010
1:28 pm
A quote by tortoise Mitch McConnell
aka “Mitch McChinless”
(h/t Stephanie Miller)
JohnnyReb
April 27th, 2010
1:29 pm
Jay, does Obama know what a friend he has in thee? The Party of No strikes again (finally, thank goodness)! The filibuster is a wonderful thing! Now the Dems have no choice but to TRULY produce a bipartisan bill.
Normal
April 27th, 2010
1:30 pm
md
April 27th, 2010
1:24 pm
“Unless you are making a case that one side “forced” the other, then that’s just silly.”
When one side does not give the other side all of the facts in order to decide for themselves, then it’s not silly, it’s deceitful.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
1:33 pm
Filibuster everything this incompetent president and his cronies, reid and pelosit attempt.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
1:35 pm
I just hope the damage done by the triumverant obama, reid, pelosi isnt undoable by the next Republican adminstration.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
1:36 pm
Obama is ruining this country…he is inept.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
1:41 pm
The Nebraska Democratic Party filed a mail fraud report against the Republican National Committee on Monday for sending out deceiving mailers that appear to be a “Census Document.” A member of Congress has also confirmed that the U.S. Postal Service was investigating the matter.
In a letter (pdf) sent to the Postal Inspection Service on Monday, Victor Covalt III, a bankruptcy lawyer and Nebraska Democratic Party official accused the RNC of “attempting to wrongfully trade off and profit from the 2010 Census.”
He also charged the Committee with violating a recently-passed law, by not including “an accurate return address including the name of the entity that sent such matter,” in its deceptive mailers.
Deceitful! Did someone say deceitful! From the RNC. The GOP! Shocking! Who has the fainting couch. Come on. Pass it around.
JohnnyReb
April 27th, 2010
1:43 pm
Outhouse – the progressives posting here booh Glenn Beck, but he started making a case yesterday that ties Obama and his cronies to the Chicago based clearing house that will become billionaires if Cap & Tax goes through as they design. Al Gore is in that group. And guess who else is tied in, Goldman Sachs. Imagine that. I thought only Republicans like Wall Street.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
I don’t ever seem to remember “conservatives” ever advocating for bipartisan legislation from 2000-2006. Perhaps it was just a fluke…
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
1:45 pm
The Goron…ugh
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
**Another catch-22. Folks want cheap products and high salaries – the 2 don’t co-exist very well. As costs rise, prices rise, as prices rise demand drops, demand drops, costs need to drop – never ending cycle.**
Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.
Union
April 27th, 2010
1:50 pm
Taxpayer… Someone has to look out for the morons.. kind of like liberals banning toys at McDonalds from the kids meals.. there is a group of folks that is obviously too stupid to figure things out for themselves.. and the NY Times says conservatives are smarter than liberals.. so..
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
1:50 pm
Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…
Jack
April 27th, 2010
1:51 pm
I’m really glad we have financial experts like Bookman keeping an eye on Wall Street.
A Lumpkin resident.
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
“They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public.”
What, like they did on Health care reform? Harry will not allow it. Changes have to be made BEFORE it hits the floor, and Republicans know it.
Union
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.
No you won’t.. you see how much money wal mart makes selling cheap stuff to people?
ImagineThat
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
TURTLE!
jefferson
April 27th, 2010
1:53 pm
Sad for the home team, you can’t change the rest of the country.
Matilda
April 27th, 2010
1:54 pm
” I thought only Republicans like Wall Street.”
That assumption is naive. Dems and Repubs alike enabled and contributed to this mess. Anyone who says differently is just refusing to look at the big picture. So, what now? Do we (those who allegedly represent us) close these loopholes and revoke the free passes to plunder? Do we defend the indefensible on the basis that somebody else did something bad? Do we keep enabling the bad behavior while using PR consultants to blame those with the smallest percentage of culpability?
Ask how YOUR representatives want to move forward, then ask what motivated them to their decisions.
ImagineThat
April 27th, 2010
1:54 pm
and the NY Times says conservatives are smarter than liberals..
And some people even mistake Republicans for conservatives and Democrats for liberals.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
1:56 pm
“Perhaps Exxon and GE will share some of their secrets to avoiding paying taxes with you, if you ask real nice.”
So, you’re saying that the executives at Exxon paid no taxes on their wages? The shareholders were not subject to capital gains taxes if they made a profit when selling the stock?
The bottom line is that corporate tax/personal tax is ultimately a shell game. The government needs (or claims it needs) X dollars per year to pay the bills. ALL taxes ultimately come from individuals, whether classified as individuals or as a group (corporation). When the group (corporate) contributions go down, the individual contributions necessarily go up. However, in the end, the wealthy still pay virtually all the taxes, so it really has no impact on the “little guy” no mater how you slice it or dice it. A red herring at best.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:58 pm
Union
I remember the days when walmart boasted that they sold products made in the USA. I rarely, if ever, go there to buy anything these days.
md
April 27th, 2010
2:02 pm
“When one side does not give the other side all of the facts in order to decide for themselves, then it’s not silly, it’s deceitful.”
If I was a side chooser, I might believe that too. But since every Senator has the right or obligation to do his/her own investigation, and there were members of both parties on the armed services committee, I just don’t buy that one. If I’m a member of the opposite party, and I don’t agree with something or think its fishy, I owe it to myself and my constituents to look into it myself. Didn’t happen, but makes for a good excuse.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
So, you’re saying that the executives at Exxon paid no taxes on their wages?
Nope. I did not say that.
The shareholders were not subject to capital gains taxes if they made a profit when selling the stock?
Nope. Did not say that either.
Of course, if you want to talk about taxes that real people pay, that’s fine. We could start with these folks.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
johnnyreb (1:43)….oh that is so on point… because you are right…how many millions does Beck make by selling you his conspiracy entertainment (his word not mine). He is an entertainer (a dubious claim but his again). When does his book come out against Cap and Trade and when do you buy it? How much money does Fox make ranting against Obama to the fools like you who swallow it all. So consider the source and the lack of substantive proof (and by the way, isnt Fox tied into Wall Street and Goldman Sachs?)
Let’s remember that most of the people that testify in front of Congress have vested interests for or against something. Gore would be foolish given his beliefs not to have made investments…but the amazing thing is he is not a part of the government. In fact, Fox would probably be saying…Gore how smart are you not to have invested. The fact that you know about these investment is part of disclosure requirements. And who is going to testify against Cap and Trade….hmmm…those who have the most to lose from it, like polluters.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
Well Mick I shocked. All my quality chinese goods purchases are made at the WalMart.
On another note…now that ODumb$%&# has saddled us with this HCare debacle that can be paid for it appears he has found away to pay for it…Natl sales tax and even the VAT is being considered. Good job ONumbNuts.
Debt Commission Gets Started With ‘Everything’ on the Table, Including National Sales Tax
md
April 27th, 2010
2:04 pm
“Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.”
If all we imported was cheap crap from China, I’d agree. But we don’t.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
“Tariffs, level the playing field”
Mick–once again, I appreciate your patriotic sentiment about rebuilding the US back up, but starting a tariff war would likely be the worst way to go about it.
“Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…”
jc–your “let he who is without sin” argument might make sense in some ideal world, but in this world we’re all guilty. liberal and conservative alike. By your way of thinking, no one has the moral authority to do what’s right today based on past sins/hypocrisy. Sorry, but I can’t accept simply throwing in the towel due to an impossible moral standard. If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
JohnnyReb
Glen beck is an idiot, talk about people being tools and sheep? No disrespect to you my friend but it is quite apparent that beck is playing all his followers.
Union
April 27th, 2010
2:08 pm
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
JohnnyReb
Glen beck is an idiot, talk about people being tools and sheep? No disrespect to you my friend but it is quite apparent that beck is playing all his followers.
and.. what is Obama doing?
md
April 27th, 2010
2:08 pm
Insider trading is an illegal activity, yet politicians do it all the time.
A matter of perspective.
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
2:09 pm
Strange how those who support the Repub positions seem to think that without a “bi-partisan” solution to a problem, it is being “forced down our throats.”
I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
What is is this foolishness about a bi-partisan solution? How can that ever be achieved when the Senate Repubs have tabled more than 190 bills passed by the House?
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:10 pm
Union
**and.. what is Obama doing?**
I believe he was elected by a majority..
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:11 pm
“Of course, if you want to talk about taxes that real people pay, that’s fine. We could start with these folks.”
Your 2:03 proves once again why it is a complete waste of time to attempt debate with you. Rather than addressing the crux of my post, that ultimately the wealthy pay virtually all of the taxes in this country and whether those taxes are paid under the guise of a corporation or as an individual makes no difference in the end, you snipe along the edges.
I accept your surrender. Now you can go back to masturbating over your global warming site.
md
April 27th, 2010
2:12 pm
“Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…”
One more time – if two warring spouses run up the credit card, they may very well hate each other, but they both are liable for the debt.
It is what it is – a problem that will not go away by itself.
Matilda
April 27th, 2010
2:15 pm
“If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.”
This is an awesome line! May I borrow it? Seriously, not patronizing you. It’s a great way to stab a point in somebody’s eye. Kudos.
jefferson
April 27th, 2010
2:18 pm
All the answers are here, the solutions to all the problems.
Union
April 27th, 2010
2:19 pm
@mick
oh really? gee I didn’t know that.. So.. are the dems gonna pass their budget before or after the elections? Better not look for the answer here though..
People are so easy.. on both sides.. just a month or two ago.. Obama was talking about how smart and wonderful all these wall street types are.. now that unemployment has not improved and is MUCH worse than they said.. gotta give the people some kind of show..
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:23 pm
“This is an awesome line! May I borrow it? Seriously, not patronizing you.”
LOL, feel free to do so, Mick. A quick google search didn’t turn up any references to it, so it might be an original quote from me. But then again, in the words of John Lennon:
Nothing you can know that isn’t known.
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be.
It’s easy.
So, drop a tab and ponder that for a while!
md
April 27th, 2010
2:26 pm
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.”
“What I worry would be that you essentially still have two chambers, the House and the Senate, but that you simply have majoritarian absolute power on either side. And that’s just not what the founders intended.” – Senator Obama
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:29 pm
“All the answers are here, the solutions to all the problems.”
jefferson, this one goes out to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDaM9AHAqkY
“I tell them there’s no problem, only solutions”
Rightwing Troll
April 27th, 2010
2:31 pm
“The governement took control of health care and as a result, it’s drivimg medical costs up. Oh goodie just what we needed, higer taxes AND higher medical costs.
I don’t trust this admistration to stack toothpicks with out screwing it up.”
Any examples of “medical costs going up”? Or “higher taxes”?
Would you trust the last administration to stack toothpicks?
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:32 pm
“LOL, feel free to do so, Mick.”
Oops–that was Matilda. Must have been some smoke in my eyes or something.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
“The governement took control of health care and as a result, it’s drivimg medical costs up. Oh goodie just what we needed, higer taxes AND higher medical costs.”
That’s weird since it hasn’t even been implemented yet. And I would like to see how government has taken over health care — I might need to tell my sister she is to be a government employee now.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
Bruno,
“By your way of thinking, no one has the moral authority to do what’s right today based on past sins/hypocrisy. Sorry, but I can’t accept simply throwing in the towel due to an impossible moral standard. If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.”
Not a hypocrite, disingenuous. Republicans have not “seen the light.” They want bipartisan legislation now because they are out of power. Return them to the majority, and see how willing they are to create bipartisan legislation.
The same with deficit spending. Republicans can snipe about it to win elections and do not really have to anything about it other than attend tea parties, but return Republicans to the majority and see how much federal spending they cut…how willing are they to cut part of $1T in defense spending?
md
April 27th, 2010
2:39 pm
“Attorney General Eric Holder says the federal government may challenge Arizona’s new law on immigration.”
Rich – the man in charge of enforcing the law challenging a State law that was written because he wasn’t enforcing the law.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
2:40 pm
I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
Somebody needs remedial help with the Constitution.
Hint: Start with Article 1 Section 5
/drive by
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:40 pm
“Any examples of “medical costs going up”? Or “higher taxes”?”
Considering the new law was passed a few weeks ago and most of it doesn’t go into effect for several years, I doubt that much has changed yet, but it will. It’s as simple as this RT: The main driver of the out-of-control costs in our health care system is the over-reliance on third-party billing. But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:43 pm
Bruno,
“that ultimately the wealthy pay virtually all of the taxes in this country”
Since wealthiest individuals in this country make the most money, they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
2:44 pm
“But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?”
Well…they knew for CERTAIN they’d get no R support for single-payer, so they chose the path most likely to appeal as a bi-partisan issue. It didn’t work, but as someone said before: at least they tried.
Single-payer will come, this just delays it for a while longer.
JohnnyReb
April 27th, 2010
2:45 pm
Good Fight and Mick – think what you will about Beck. He had his act together when he forced Obama to dump Van Jones from the administration (Jones now works for one of George Soro’s anti-American organizations). And, I have not seen him make an idiot of himself yet.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
2:46 pm
Eric Holder…another obama admin do nothing.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:47 pm
“The same with deficit spending. Republicans can snipe about it to win elections and do not really have to anything about it other than attend tea parties, but return Republicans to the majority and see how much federal spending they cut…how willing are they to cut part of $1T in defense spending?”
Unfortunately, jc, I’m probably just as cynical as you are. And believe it or not, 2001-2008 were extremely disappointing years for true conservatives. I was expecting 12 years or more of Democratic rule as a result, but now I’m guessing that 1 1/2 years of Obama and Pelosi have already turned the tide back.
Having said that, I still see no good reason to argue against doing what is right today. If all the “disingenuous” Republican yammering results in some fiscal responsibility from the Dems, then it will have served its purpose.
As always, appreciate the honest dialogue.
Disgusted
April 27th, 2010
2:50 pm
But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?
An interesting argument. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against “gummit” insurance. They rejected outright the idea of single-payer. They also rejected a Medicare buy-in. And now that we have this sell-out to the insurance companies, it’s the Democrats who are at fault? My, my, how short memories have become!
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:52 pm
Bruno,
“Having said that, I still see no good reason to argue against doing what is right today.”
And it will always be the one’s currently in power who define ” what is right.”
@@
April 27th, 2010
2:53 pm
The Tourre fella should be convicted for stupidity. Who communicates their wrong doing thru e-mails when the government can gain access to them? Anyhoo, I read where Tourre also said this:
“As the U.S. housing turned downward in January 2007, a Goldman Sachs trader wrote in e-mails to a woman he apparently was courting that investments he had sold were “like Frankenstein turning against his own inventor.”
So who’s Frankenstein? Fannie? Freddie? Dodd? Barney?
Let’s see some convictions and not just of the scape goats…let’s go for the BIG RAMS.
——————————————-
SoCo:
I don’t see myself as a lefty or hard-left anyway, so that comment doesn’t count, right?
Of course it counts. You’re not a leftist.
(ISH)
Normal may be surprised to read this, but I don’t see him as a leftist either. TnGelding? Nope. Coupl’a others that don’t come to mind right now.
jewcowboy? Sniper, yapping chihuahua, girlie gossip…take your pick. I’ve decided I don’t much care for him although at one time he was bearable.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:56 pm
“Since wealthiest individuals in this country make the most money, they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.”
jc–I’ve printed the tables out ad nauseum on this blog. The wealthy are paying virtually all of the income taxes collected in this country, and they pay at the highest rates. As such, there is no change that could be made to the current tax code to make it more “fair” for the non-wealthy. As far as all the other taxes collected, e.g. FICA, gasoline taxes, property taxes, I wouldn’t be against reducing those as well, and would be prepared to accept reduced benefits in return.
“Single-payer will come, this just delays it for a while longer.”
Doggone, not sure if I can take any credit for straightening it out for you, but this is the first time I have seen you honestly state that the Dem law is a step in the wrong direction.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
2:57 pm
Mick:
……….. yes a very slight majority and remember a democracy is the only form of government that is set up to allow its own self-destruction.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
2:57 pm
jewcowboy@ 2:38,
That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November. I’m like seriously?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
@@,
“jewcowboy? Sniper, yapping chihuahua, girlie gossip…take your pick. I’ve decided I don’t much care for him although at one time he was bearable.”
_____________________________________________________________________________
@@
April 26th, 2010
10:57 pm
cowboy:
The only time that I even read you is when your post is addressed to me. Aside from the 10:48 I rarely acknowledge your presence. You on the other hand…
Chances are if you didn’t respond to my posts we’d never cross paths. You leftists are funny that way. You always need to command the board…sitting in wait with nuthin’ to do.
Buona notte, Jack
______________________________________________________________________________
Hmmm….I don’t think my posts were addressed to you…
Mick
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
Scout
This too will pass……man eight long years of bush….it was a drag…and now the tables are reversed it seems…..better days ahead…. hopefully..
Johnnyreb
Sorry again, beck is a loser/user laughing all the way to the bank…he has no cred. except in broadcasting and I’ll give him that..
md
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
“That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November. I’m like seriously?”
One can only hope for a balanced gov’t. Compromise and bi-partisanship come easier for those that are forced to get along.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
“but this is the first time I have seen you honestly state that the Dem law is a step in the wrong direction”
Maybe the first time you’ve seen it…not the first time I’ve said it.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
Bosch,
“That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November.”
The Republicans claim a mantle of fiscal conservatives, yet their track record doesn’t truly bear this out…just a good PR machine?
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
“An interesting argument. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against “gummit” insurance. They rejected outright the idea of single-payer. They also rejected a Medicare buy-in. And now that we have this sell-out to the insurance companies, it’s the Democrats who are at fault? My, my, how short memories have become!”
Disgusted–The reason for the opposition being that there are viable free-market solutions to lowering the costs of health care delivery. None of those solutions were even considered by the Dems. That door swings both ways, friend.
Personally, I believe single-payer would be far superior to what was passed, but still inferior to true free-market medicine.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
“Compromise and bi-partisanship come easier for those that are forced to get along.”
md,
Too bad the Republicans aren’t — except sometimes the Goddess will play nice.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:06 pm
“remember a democracy is the only form of government that is set up to allow its own self-destruction”
all forms of government contain the seeds of their own destruction. It’s not unique to democracies.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
3:07 pm
jewcowboy
Looks like you’ve made “the list.”
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:08 pm
And BTW, Disgusted, what did Republican support/opposition have to do with anything anyway? In case you forgot, the legislation passed without the necessity of any R votes at all. This is the Democrat’s baby, lock-stock-and-barrel, so own it.
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:09 pm
“UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” Barack Obama on why we should let the Govt run our HC
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:09 pm
What Blog God? What?
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:10 pm
Oh yes, Blog God, I see now – my bad.
jewcowboy,
“just a good PR machine?”
Or mitigated bullsh*t?
That’s what cracks me up about those of the Earl Grey persuasion and the GOPers screaming about a reduction in federal spending – one man’s earmark is another man’s economic development. They want a reduction of federal spending, but just not what the government spends on them. Oh, then it’s different.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:11 pm
Oh and jewcowboy,
Welcome to the club.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
Bruno,
“and they pay at the highest rates.”
As I said, “they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.” There is certainly a big loophole to close.
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/pm120/
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
”The reforms we seek would bring greater competition, choice, savings and inefficiencies to our health care system.”
—Barack Obama, in remarks after a health care roundtable with physicians, nurses and health care providers, Washington, D.C., July 20, 2009
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:14 pm
“Looks like you’ve made “the list.”
jc is on my list as well–the one of intelligent bloggers who actually have something to say and can back their position up with a few facts. My list isn’t based on political orientation, simply on the willingness to engage others in an open way.
Now, at the other end of the spectrum:
“You are an absolute dumbass. Why don’t you try to stay on topic instead of trying to change another’s topic and then falling on your face when you are called on it. Go suck an… egg.”
md
April 27th, 2010
3:16 pm
“The Republicans claim a mantle of fiscal conservatives, yet their track record doesn’t truly bear this out…just a good PR machine?”
Again, the GOP and Clinton did pretty good when forced to work with each other toward a balanced budget. They aren’t called right and left for nothing. Left to their own devices, they’d both prefer to stay out there.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Bruno,
Call me crazy, but that’s not the same list of which Kamchak speaks.
How’s the clean up?
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Hmmm….I don’t think my posts were addressed to you…
Mine wasn’t addressed to you either, it was addressed to SoCo.
I’m referring back to a confab where you, uninvited, included yourself…it went on from there with Normal and then SoCo. TnGelding wasn’t even involved, but he deserved an honorable mention, in my opinion. I doubt seriously he’ll mind my bringing his name up.
You, on the other hand….
Scat!
md
April 27th, 2010
3:20 pm
“Too bad the Republicans aren’t — except sometimes the Goddess will play nice.”
And shame on them to screw the goddess. You just know she wishes for a redo on sending the hc bill to the floor.
And from my vantage point, the dems had the numbers and knew it, so they never intended to compromise. Had MA happened before the senate bill it would have never got out of chamber. It was the dems that needed the forcing.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:20 pm
From your link, jc:
“The professional fund managers of these hedge funds and private equity firms are allowed to treat a substantial portion of their compensation as capital gains, meaning they are most likely taxed at 15% rather than the 35% rate that applies to ordinary income such as wages and salary.”
You’re launching somewhat of a different argument here–capital gains taxes are different from income taxes due to risk inherent in investing. Whether hedge fund managers’ compensation rightly qualifies as capital gains, I’m not sure. But in the end, the wealthy are paying the lion’s share of the taxes. For the 47% who pay nothing, their rate is 0.00%.
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:21 pm
Off Topic… does this blog use wordpress codes or?? I want to work on my smilies
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:21 pm
Bosch,
“They want a reduction of federal spending, but just not what the government spends on them. ”
If one is not willing to cut SS, Medicare, and defense spending (which make-up 60% of the federal budget) then one is not truly serious about the deficit…
TnGelding
April 27th, 2010
3:22 pm
And a lot of dirty work there is to do! I thought I was arrogant.
Test
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
@@,
“Scat!”
Sorry, I’m not a Republican fundraiser…so I’m not into those type of things…
Scout
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
Mick:
I hear you but great damage is being done to the Republic.
DoggoneGA:
Nope. In a democratic form of government the “lemmings” can voluntarily vote themselves into slavery. In other forms of government change is accomplished by force.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
“How’s the clean up?”
Thanks for the inquiry. Since I have very little “stuff” to begin with, reassembling the place wasn’t too hard other than re-ordering all the paperwork which was scattered about. I’m sure nothing like having an indoor arborarium.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
md,
I like to think that the Goddess knew that reform was needed, and this was a first step. She’s so smart and all and so full of goddess wisdom, that I just know that to be the case.
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
A “Coffee Party”(?) demonstration at Wall Street…
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/555599/bank_reform_setback_in_the_senate_action_in_the_streets
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
md,
“Again, the GOP and Clinton did pretty good when forced to work with each other toward a balanced budget.”
What is that saying about if neither side is happy with the outcome, you know its pretty good?
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:26 pm
“In a democratic form of government the “lemmings” can voluntarily vote themselves into slavery. In other forms of government change is accomplished by force.”
and a democracy can be overturned by force. Force is ALWAYS a way to change a government, and it is always a “seed” of that government’s desctruction.
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
3:26 pm
@ RW-(the original)
Your 2:40 indicates:
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
Somebody needs remedial help with the Constitution.
Hint: Start with Article 1 Section 5″
/drive by
Maybe if your learn to comprehend what you read relative to the statement, then you will have room to speak objectively.
Typical Repub tactic, obfuscate, extrapolate, conflate!
http://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm
Paul
April 27th, 2010
3:27 pm
The hearing’s in recess. One thing clear to me is whatever that reform bill is, it isn’t ready for prime time. Senate questioners don’t have a handle on exactly how the process works, so how can they pass law regulating it? Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:28 pm
“Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.”
Personally, I think they should just repeal the changes to Glass-Steagall
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
“If one is not willing to cut SS, Medicare, and defense spending (which make-up 60% of the federal budget) then one is not truly serious about the deficit…”
Then count me among the “truly serious”.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
Bruno,
“But in the end, the wealthy are paying the lion’s share of the taxes. For the 47% who pay nothing, their rate is 0.00%.”
I would certainly agree. Of course the top 1% of the US own 38% of the wealth, the 10% own 71% of the wealth and the bottom 40% owns less than 1%.
As the ones that own the wealth, the drinks are on the top 10%…
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:31 pm
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
“What is that saying about if neither side is happy with the outcome, you know its pretty good?”
Is that like the saying, “A compromise is the least disliked understanding”?
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
3:31 pm
@md
Your 2:26 reply means what?
It sounds like you don’t believe in a democratic principle of majority rules?
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.”
“What I worry would be that you essentially still have two chambers, the House and the Senate, but that you simply have majoritarian absolute power on either side. And that’s just not what the founders intended.” – Senator Obama”
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:32 pm
Bruno,
Indoor arborarium (cool word, btw) can be nice if planned correctly as I’ve seen in such places as the National Gallery, but in my case it wasn’t planned well. Or at all.
Jewcowboy,
And we all know that those of the Earl Grey persuasion want the government out of their Medicare. Jesus, is that just not the funniest thing ever?
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:32 pm
Off-topic! I remember when the Professor Gates incident came about, I read some of his writings and there was conflict in the Gates I was seeing and the one I was reading.
Giving him credit where due:
“How to Handle the Slavery Blame-Game”
Did these Africans know how harsh slavery was in the New World? Actually, many elite Africans visited Europe in that era, and they did so on slave ships following the prevailing winds through the New World. For example, when Antonio Manuel, Kongo’s ambassador to the Vatican, went to Europe in 1604, he first stopped in Bahia, Brazil, where he arranged to free a countryman who had been wrongfully enslaved.
African monarchs also sent their children along these same slave routes to be educated in Europe. And there were thousands of former slaves who returned to settle Liberia and Sierra Leone. The Middle Passage, in other words, was sometimes a two-way street. Under these circumstances, it is difficult to claim that Africans were ignorant or innocent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/opinion/23gates.html?pagewanted=2
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:34 pm
Paul:
Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.
It’s all about the convenience of timing.
Paul
April 27th, 2010
3:35 pm
Doggone/GA
Many have made the case that repeal of that (under Clinton?) is one of the things that set this mess in motion. If so, makes sense to bring it back.
But it makes sense.. so…. odds on it happening?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:36 pm
Bosch,
Though it has nothing to do with the Orange Pekoe Brigade, this my favorite point/counter-point protest:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/30/god-hates-corduroy-skirts
md
April 27th, 2010
3:37 pm
“Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.”
Politicians are the only folks that can create a mess and then turn around and campaign to fix it. Not too sure this isn’t their modus operandi.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:37 pm
“As the ones that own the wealth, the drinks are on the top 10%…”
Sounds like josef nix is in big trouble then.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
3:38 pm
Doggone/GA:
……….. and you make my point. Force is always a way (even in a democracy) but a democracy is still the only form where it can voluntarily vote itself into slavery “without” Force.
Thank you.
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:36 pm
SUPER!!! That could be a bumper sticker…
Disgusted
April 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
And BTW, Disgusted, what did Republican support/opposition have to do with anything anyway? In case you forgot, the legislation passed without the necessity of any R votes at all. This is the Democrat’s baby, lock-stock-and-barrel, so own it.
Notice that I said conservatives, Bruno, not Republicans, although the latter were united in their opposition to the HC bill. If not for conservative Democrats like Max Baucus, who is owned by the insurance industry, we would have a single-payer law right now. The only way to get his vote, along with that of Lincoln and other Democratic conservatives, was to provide for a third-party payer.
And that’s precisely why I’m hoping that every Blue Dog Democrat up for reelection gets defeated in November—even if it means a Republican majority. If we’re going to have Republicans masquerading as Democrats, let them take the mask off and run as Republicans. At least then we’ll know who the people’s friends are.
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
Lead story on page three…
md
April 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
Jackie – that quote was by a guy named Obama. At one time, he said there was more to it than just one side rules. But it seems since the shoe is no longer on the other foot, those are no longer his principles.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
Paul,
“But it makes sense.. so…. odds on it happening?”
McCain was for reinstating Glass-Steagall…
http://www.newsweek.com/id/226938
But, now that he is no longer a “maverick” is he still for it?
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
McCain is like every other politician facing re-election. He’s going to dance a “little sidestep” until after November.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:46 pm
“SUPER!!! That could be a bumper sticker…”
Normal–one of the funniest scenes I ever witnessed was at Mardi Gras in the early 90s. It always attracts a host of “street preachers” who come to convince everyone to straighten up in the name of the Lord (good luck with that). One particularly animated fellow drew a crowd, who supported his sermon by acting out each sin as he called them out. Needless to say, the highlight came when he got around to condemning fornication. Street theater at its finest.
Paul
April 27th, 2010
3:46 pm
jewcowboy
Probably. Rather nice to have a nonmaverick Repub for it, eh?
Back on the hearings: Senator asks a question. Person answers. Senator restates, gets frustrated by the answer. Person says “but that’s not what you asked. What you asked was this.”
Senator: “you guys parse words.”
geesh
Learn how to ask questions….
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
@md
The quote could be by anyone; it still does not address the issue of majority rule. As I see it, the statement is either incomplete or has no basis in fact.
Democracy calls for a majority to make law, even if the majority is one.
Instead of quoting someone and their opinion, what do you think?
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
Oh my goodness jewcowboy, I just snorted. I think spandex is a sin too. I’ve never seen anything good come in it. Nothing.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:49 pm
If Jesus is smart…he’ll run…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5pOv1UYGzE
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:50 pm
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
Oh I don’t know, Bosch, Spandex once caused me to lose 25 pounds.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:51 pm
Bosch,
“I think spandex is a sin too. I’ve never seen anything good come in it. Nothing.”
Then get ready…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8WoyPEVRFo
and,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddFBX9hwaOM
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
3:52 pm
This is a brilliantly profane exchange in the Goldman Sachs hearing. Carl Levin confronted Goldman Sachs trader Daniel Sparks with an email about “Timberwolf,” one of their deals using mortgage-backed securities. Tom Montag, the head of the division at the time, told Sparks, “That Timberwolf was one sh–ty deal.” Days later, Levin showed, emails talked about selling Timberwolf, the “sh–ty deal,” as a top priority. In fact, Goldman sold hundreds of millions of dollars on the deal to investors after that initial email.
In a made-for-Jon-Stewart moment, Levin asked again and again about the “sh–ty deal,” and Sparks tried to dodge, but the conclusion was clear – Goldman Sachs knew Timberwolf was bad, and yet not only marketed it to investors, but marketed it as a top priority.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
3:53 pm
Tax the bottom 1%…that will balance the budget! And kids…why should their measly allowances be tax free….tax it….Tooth fairy proceeds…tax it! Rich people…no more taxes because they “produce” for their mansions and yachts and they hire the minions at minimum wage and spend more money to lobby for lower taxes and lower minimum wage.
Tea…let’s raise the taxes on tea…..
59% of Americans want more government regulation over credit cards and financial matters…. why are the Republicans shoving inaction down our throats? This is tyranny! Patriots, take back our country from the Republicans!
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:53 pm
“I’ve never seen anything good come in it. Nothing.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNxrHS2WYGE&feature=related
Later, guys and gals.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:54 pm
jewcowboy,
Dang! That made my toes curl up in my shoes! Like they do every time I see a clown. And to be honest, I like my toe curls to come in another form, thank you! And again, my therapist bill will be soon forthcoming.
Normal and jewcowboy,
Not sure if you saw this the other day, but I saw a funny bumper sticker the other day that read, “Come Rapture, can I have your car?” I almost hit the car trying to read it and then laughing. It’s always been my belief that those “In case of rapture car will be unmanned” folks should have their licenses revoked – they are a hazard to the rest of us.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
3:55 pm
Now, at the other end of the spectrum:
“You are an absolute dumbass. Why don’t you try to stay on topic instead of trying to change another’s topic and then falling on your face when you are called on it. Go suck an… egg.”
Which was prompted by:
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:11 pm
“Of course, if you want to talk about taxes that real people pay, that’s fine. We could start with these folks.”
Your 2:03 proves once again why it is a complete waste of time to attempt debate with you. Rather than addressing the crux of my post, that ultimately the wealthy pay virtually all of the taxes in this country and whether those taxes are paid under the guise of a corporation or as an individual makes no difference in the end, you snipe along the edges.
I accept your surrender. Now you can go back to masturbating over your global warming site.
Try to keep up.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:56 pm
jewcowboy and Bruno –
Two words. Not cool.
I was still recovering and that was just hurtful.
@@
April 27th, 2010
4:00 pm
Money and Votes Aligned in Congress’s Last Debate Over Bank Regulation
http://www.opensecrets.org/img/blog/bankchart_20080924.gif
Don’t see much difference between the two ‘cept the dems got a smidge more than the reps.
Go for THE RAMS too.
Rightwing Troll
April 27th, 2010
4:00 pm
“The same with deficit spending. Republicans can snipe about it to win elections and do not really have to anything about it other than attend tea parties, but return Republicans to the majority and see how much federal spending they cut…how willing are they to cut part of $1T in defense spending?”
What uh… whatever happened to the inevitable collapse of Social Security and they Republican “promise” to fix it in 2000 and 2004?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
4:02 pm
Bosch,
“When everyone is looking my buffet starts cooking”
Honestly, whenever I hear the word “rapture” this pops up…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRL9NLQqP8
Then everything else I hear is coated in Blondie making everything better…
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
4:06 pm
I think Bruno’s post at 3.53 damaged something inside of me emotionally…
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
4:09 pm
jewcowboy @ 4:06 – my eyes are still burning. I too feel the emotional scar that will never fade.
Pogo
April 27th, 2010
4:10 pm
After reading this piece by Jay and reading some of the more naive comments about how only the Republicans are beholding to big money interests (including banking), I have come to the following conclusion; to be a modern liberal/progressive you must totally throw any semblance of reality out of the window and you must choose to live in some kind of weird never-never land wherein you only believe that which you agree with and since that is what you believe, it must be real. I mean, its not like the Dims are not out there wining and dining with big money. Read the papers for God’s sake (I mean the other papers, not this one but the ones that tell of events such as Reids little fund raising adventure in New York this week)! Harry is sitting down with the big boys for big bucks. I wonder what they expect in return?
Jay, your credibility lessens with every one-sided piece of make believe you put out. You must surely know the boys and girls on your “side” are just as bought out. Also, does anyone here even understand what this “banking legislation” involves? If you don’t, then how can you comment on it? I understand a bit and it looks like it will do nothing but ensure that the banks will always have the government to help them, no matter what they do. In exchange, the government will garner more control over the financial sector thus driving another stake into the capitalism that has made this country even last as long as it has. Look to Europe (Portugal and Greece) right now to see our future if this continues.
md
April 27th, 2010
4:11 pm
“Instead of quoting someone and their opinion, what do you think?”
I believe neither party represents all americans, yet both implement their agendas as if they do. I believe the country is 1/3,1/3,1/3, yet have only two viable choices, which leaves a large segment unrepresented, and that is why I believe in balanced gov’t vs one sided gov’t. Compromise is the answer vs continually going from left to right to left to right to…………
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:13 pm
I see folks around are in a good mood this p.m.
On the thread: nothing will come of this of any substance, but in the meantime it does make for good theatre.
A bit of a downer, but has anybody besides my fifth graders actuall read the Arizona immigration bill…chilling, folks, chilling to the bone…
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
4:16 pm
“I have come to the following conclusion; to be a modern conservative (except the Senate Goddess) you must totally throw any semblance of reality out of the window and you must choose to live in some kind of weird never-never land wherein you only believe that which you agree with and since that is what you believe, it must be real.
There, Pogo, fixed that typo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seriously dude, it goes both ways.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:16 pm
md
In re your 4:11–what I may think/believe/subscribe to personally and what I think is in the best interest of my country are not always the same thing. Too many of our politicians can’t seem to understand that about themselves.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
4:17 pm
josef nix,
“chilling to the bone…”
5th graders reading immigration bills…yes…very chilling
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
4:19 pm
Bosch,
“Seriously dude, it goes both ways.”
Just like a Republican Senator in a stall at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport…
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
4:21 pm
@md
Good job at conflation,
What you do think the US Constitution calls for relative to the passage of bills in the House and Senate and the signature by the President?
Is a simple majority the requirement for passage of a bill and the signature by the President to pass it.
Paul
April 27th, 2010
4:22 pm
What’s the difference between Congress and josef’s class of fifth graders?
The fifth graders read the bills!
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:27 pm
jewcowboy–
They asked about it and I sent them to the computer. They pulled up the bill and we had a lesson in how to read such a bill…the lesson was to get them to understand the words of the law, look at how it would be enforced and then to try to draw conclusions on how it would affect them…I’ll say this for the little b*ggers, they asked some really interesting questions:
“So, Mr. Nix, if somebody heard you speaking Spanish with us and asked you for identification and you didn’t have it with you that means you could be arrested?”
“If you give your neighbor a ride to work and get stopped and he’s illegal, you can be arrested and they can take your car?”
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:28 pm
PAUL
This one was only 17 pages, though! They couldn’t even pick up the Health Care one!
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:33 pm
PAUL
I’ve got one little genius whose parents were both lawyers in Mexico. When I asked them to say what the bill meant to the people in Arizona, he quipped, “pack you bags and leave Arizona if you’re brown.” His mouth to G-d’s ears! He was born here. His parents are legal. He’s one of tomorrow’s leaders of the Latino community…something to think about…
Paul
April 27th, 2010
4:35 pm
josef nix
Those broad brushes cover a lot of canvas –
The Hearings:
“One thing I am sure of, Congress doesn’t have the expertise to draft this bill.’
Sen Ensign
Pogo
April 27th, 2010
4:36 pm
Greece is a fine example of where socialism, unions and nationalization will get you. Look at the worlds stock markets today. They tanked because of this little countrys internal social and economic policies. They are now officially broke and no-one wants to help. The sad truth is that due to the deficit we (as in the United States) have already created are already much worse off than Greece and it is only getting worse under Obama and the progressives in congress. Historically, progressives (like Obama) want three things; (1) they want action, no matter the consequences (2) they want to spend towards utopia, no matter if we can afford it or not (3)they want taxes on the rich, disregarding the reality that there are not enough rich to pay for their spending. At some point they always lower the threshold for the defintion of what being “rich” really is and eventually paying for their excessive spending intrudes into the middle class. Everyone loses.
I also agree that in recent history the republicans have spent money like madmen in their pursuit to be progressive. W was nothing if not a progressive. It is kind of ironic when you consider that the left spent so much time vilifying Bush but in reality, economically speaking, he was one of their own.
Shawny
April 27th, 2010
4:40 pm
Fab Fab sounds like he could be another fine appointment by Obama.
And by the way, only the party with a large majority are “offended” by the filibuster. When it turns around, the filibuster will suddenly become patriotic.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
4:42 pm
Immigrating upstairs…
Pogo
April 27th, 2010
4:47 pm
Thanks Bosch. You can rest easy knowing your alternative universe, un-anchored in reality still exists!
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
4:51 pm
Pogo,
“You can rest easy knowing your alternative universe, un-anchored in reality still exists!”
My alternative universe is way fab cool.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
5:12 pm
Greece is a fine example of where socialism, unions and nationalization will get you.
Nope–they copied us.
As in the American subprime crisis and the implosion of the American International Group, financial derivatives played a role in the run-up of Greek debt. Instruments developed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and a wide range of other banks enabled politicians to mask additional borrowing in Greece, Italy and possibly elsewhere.
In dozens of deals across the Continent, banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books. Greece, for example, traded away the rights to airport fees and lottery proceeds in years to come.
IC Atlanta
April 27th, 2010
7:44 pm
When will Obama return his $1million to Goldman. How much did Schumer get from Wall Street? What was Chris Dodd’s involvement – how did he get special favors from bankrupt Countrywide? Seriously Jay are you unable to criticize any Democrat? You lose credibility when you cannot be intellectually honest.
Filibustering GOP still doing Wall Street’s dirty work | goodne.ws
April 27th, 2010
10:17 pm
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