Filibustering GOP still doing Wall Street’s dirty work
The human capacity to rationalize on its own behalf is enormous, as demonstrated by the ethical musings of one “Fabulous Fab” Tourre, the Goldman Sachs trader now at the center of a civil suit filed by the SEC. In an email to his girlfriend on Jan. 27, 2007, Tourre agonized about the impending collapse of the subprime market and the pain it would cause, but quickly tried to banish such thoughts from his mind:
“Anyway, not feeling too guilty about this, the real purpose of my job is to make capital markets more efficient and ultimately provide the U.S. consumer with more efficient ways to leverage and finance himself, so there is a humble, noble and ethical reason for my job
amazing how good I am in convincing myself !!!”
But he wasn’t quite as convinced as he wanted to be. In another email, written just two days later, he confessed:
“When I think that I had some input into the creation of this product (which by the way is a product of pure intellectual masturbation, the type of thing which you invest telling yourself: “Well, what if we created a “thing,” which has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical and which nobody knows how to price?”) it sickens the heart to see it shot down in mid-flight…It’s a little like Frankenstein turning against his own inventor
That thing “that has no purpose, which is absolutely conceptual and highly theoretical” was of course synthetic collateralized debt obligations, or CDOs. As Tourre acknowledged, the sole purpose of synthetic CDOs was to facilitate the betting of hundreds of billions of dollars by so-called “investors” who in reality were gambling with the global economy at the Goldman Sachs casino that masqueraded as a bank.
Reading those and other emails, I couldn’t help but think of similar rationalizations by Tourre’s boss at Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein. In a profile in the Times of London last year, Blankfein described Goldman as “doing God’s work.” And when asked whether it was possible that Wall Street bankers were being paid too much money in ways that distorted the economy, he got downright indignant:
“Is it possible to have too much ambition? Is it possible to be too successful?” Blankfein shoots back. “I don’t want people in this firm to think that they have accomplished as much for themselves as they can and go on vacation. As the guardian of the interests of the shareholders and, by the way, for the purposes of society, I’d like them to continue to do what they are doing. I don’t want to put a cap on their ambition. It’s hard for me to argue for a cap on their compensation.”
Blankfein, Tourre and other Goldman officials are testifying this morning before a Senate investigative committee. (You can watch it here.) That will probably be followed later in the day by another Senate vote on whether to proceed with debate and amendments to a Wall Street reform bill.
Yesterday, every Republican senator in the chamber voted against allowing the bill to proceed, effectively blocking its passage. According to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the GOP opposes the bill because it isn’t hard enough on Wall Street, a claim that doesn’t pass the laugh test. Do you honestly believe — and I stress that word “honestly” — that Senate Republicans are waging this fight in order to tighten regulation of Wall Street?
If Republicans truly want to tighten the bill, they ought to allow debate to proceed. They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public. If Republicans really want to tighten regulation, if Democrats really are trying to pass a sweetheart bill for Wall Street, then the GOP should be eager to have that debate on the Senate floor with the country watching.
But they aren’t. Instead, McConnell and his colleagues want the bill withdrawn back behind closed doors, where deals can be quietly cut and tough provisions can be gutted without anyone hearing the screams. And like Tourre, they have no doubt tried to convince themselves that there are “humble, noble and ethical reasons” for doing so.
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245 comments Add your comment
JohnnyReb
April 27th, 2010
1:43 pm
Outhouse – the progressives posting here booh Glenn Beck, but he started making a case yesterday that ties Obama and his cronies to the Chicago based clearing house that will become billionaires if Cap & Tax goes through as they design. Al Gore is in that group. And guess who else is tied in, Goldman Sachs. Imagine that. I thought only Republicans like Wall Street.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
I don’t ever seem to remember “conservatives” ever advocating for bipartisan legislation from 2000-2006. Perhaps it was just a fluke…
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
1:45 pm
The Goron…ugh
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
**Another catch-22. Folks want cheap products and high salaries – the 2 don’t co-exist very well. As costs rise, prices rise, as prices rise demand drops, demand drops, costs need to drop – never ending cycle.**
Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.
Union
April 27th, 2010
1:50 pm
Taxpayer… Someone has to look out for the morons.. kind of like liberals banning toys at McDonalds from the kids meals.. there is a group of folks that is obviously too stupid to figure things out for themselves.. and the NY Times says conservatives are smarter than liberals.. so..
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
1:50 pm
Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…
Jack
April 27th, 2010
1:51 pm
I’m really glad we have financial experts like Bookman keeping an eye on Wall Street.
A Lumpkin resident.
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
“They would then have every opportunity to propose and debate amendments in public on the Senate floor and have those amendments voted on, again in public.”
What, like they did on Health care reform? Harry will not allow it. Changes have to be made BEFORE it hits the floor, and Republicans know it.
Union
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.
No you won’t.. you see how much money wal mart makes selling cheap stuff to people?
ImagineThat
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
TURTLE!
jefferson
April 27th, 2010
1:53 pm
Sad for the home team, you can’t change the rest of the country.
Matilda
April 27th, 2010
1:54 pm
” I thought only Republicans like Wall Street.”
That assumption is naive. Dems and Repubs alike enabled and contributed to this mess. Anyone who says differently is just refusing to look at the big picture. So, what now? Do we (those who allegedly represent us) close these loopholes and revoke the free passes to plunder? Do we defend the indefensible on the basis that somebody else did something bad? Do we keep enabling the bad behavior while using PR consultants to blame those with the smallest percentage of culpability?
Ask how YOUR representatives want to move forward, then ask what motivated them to their decisions.
ImagineThat
April 27th, 2010
1:54 pm
and the NY Times says conservatives are smarter than liberals..
And some people even mistake Republicans for conservatives and Democrats for liberals.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
1:56 pm
“Perhaps Exxon and GE will share some of their secrets to avoiding paying taxes with you, if you ask real nice.”
So, you’re saying that the executives at Exxon paid no taxes on their wages? The shareholders were not subject to capital gains taxes if they made a profit when selling the stock?
The bottom line is that corporate tax/personal tax is ultimately a shell game. The government needs (or claims it needs) X dollars per year to pay the bills. ALL taxes ultimately come from individuals, whether classified as individuals or as a group (corporation). When the group (corporate) contributions go down, the individual contributions necessarily go up. However, in the end, the wealthy still pay virtually all the taxes, so it really has no impact on the “little guy” no mater how you slice it or dice it. A red herring at best.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
1:58 pm
Union
I remember the days when walmart boasted that they sold products made in the USA. I rarely, if ever, go there to buy anything these days.
md
April 27th, 2010
2:02 pm
“When one side does not give the other side all of the facts in order to decide for themselves, then it’s not silly, it’s deceitful.”
If I was a side chooser, I might believe that too. But since every Senator has the right or obligation to do his/her own investigation, and there were members of both parties on the armed services committee, I just don’t buy that one. If I’m a member of the opposite party, and I don’t agree with something or think its fishy, I owe it to myself and my constituents to look into it myself. Didn’t happen, but makes for a good excuse.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
So, you’re saying that the executives at Exxon paid no taxes on their wages?
Nope. I did not say that.
The shareholders were not subject to capital gains taxes if they made a profit when selling the stock?
Nope. Did not say that either.
Of course, if you want to talk about taxes that real people pay, that’s fine. We could start with these folks.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
johnnyreb (1:43)….oh that is so on point… because you are right…how many millions does Beck make by selling you his conspiracy entertainment (his word not mine). He is an entertainer (a dubious claim but his again). When does his book come out against Cap and Trade and when do you buy it? How much money does Fox make ranting against Obama to the fools like you who swallow it all. So consider the source and the lack of substantive proof (and by the way, isnt Fox tied into Wall Street and Goldman Sachs?)
Let’s remember that most of the people that testify in front of Congress have vested interests for or against something. Gore would be foolish given his beliefs not to have made investments…but the amazing thing is he is not a part of the government. In fact, Fox would probably be saying…Gore how smart are you not to have invested. The fact that you know about these investment is part of disclosure requirements. And who is going to testify against Cap and Trade….hmmm…those who have the most to lose from it, like polluters.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
Well Mick I shocked. All my quality chinese goods purchases are made at the WalMart.
On another note…now that ODumb$%&# has saddled us with this HCare debacle that can be paid for it appears he has found away to pay for it…Natl sales tax and even the VAT is being considered. Good job ONumbNuts.
Debt Commission Gets Started With ‘Everything’ on the Table, Including National Sales Tax
md
April 27th, 2010
2:04 pm
“Tariffs, level the playing field, we need to rebuild manufacturing base in US. I’ll pay more for a product if quality is superior and made in USA.”
If all we imported was cheap crap from China, I’d agree. But we don’t.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
“Tariffs, level the playing field”
Mick–once again, I appreciate your patriotic sentiment about rebuilding the US back up, but starting a tariff war would likely be the worst way to go about it.
“Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…”
jc–your “let he who is without sin” argument might make sense in some ideal world, but in this world we’re all guilty. liberal and conservative alike. By your way of thinking, no one has the moral authority to do what’s right today based on past sins/hypocrisy. Sorry, but I can’t accept simply throwing in the towel due to an impossible moral standard. If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
JohnnyReb
Glen beck is an idiot, talk about people being tools and sheep? No disrespect to you my friend but it is quite apparent that beck is playing all his followers.
Union
April 27th, 2010
2:08 pm
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
JohnnyReb
Glen beck is an idiot, talk about people being tools and sheep? No disrespect to you my friend but it is quite apparent that beck is playing all his followers.
and.. what is Obama doing?
md
April 27th, 2010
2:08 pm
Insider trading is an illegal activity, yet politicians do it all the time.
A matter of perspective.
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
2:09 pm
Strange how those who support the Repub positions seem to think that without a “bi-partisan” solution to a problem, it is being “forced down our throats.”
I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
What is is this foolishness about a bi-partisan solution? How can that ever be achieved when the Senate Repubs have tabled more than 190 bills passed by the House?
Mick
April 27th, 2010
2:10 pm
Union
**and.. what is Obama doing?**
I believe he was elected by a majority..
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:11 pm
“Of course, if you want to talk about taxes that real people pay, that’s fine. We could start with these folks.”
Your 2:03 proves once again why it is a complete waste of time to attempt debate with you. Rather than addressing the crux of my post, that ultimately the wealthy pay virtually all of the taxes in this country and whether those taxes are paid under the guise of a corporation or as an individual makes no difference in the end, you snipe along the edges.
I accept your surrender. Now you can go back to masturbating over your global warming site.
md
April 27th, 2010
2:12 pm
“Of course, I also don’t remember “conservatives” holding demonstrations about the deficit or federal spending during that time either…”
One more time – if two warring spouses run up the credit card, they may very well hate each other, but they both are liable for the debt.
It is what it is – a problem that will not go away by itself.
Matilda
April 27th, 2010
2:15 pm
“If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.”
This is an awesome line! May I borrow it? Seriously, not patronizing you. It’s a great way to stab a point in somebody’s eye. Kudos.
jefferson
April 27th, 2010
2:18 pm
All the answers are here, the solutions to all the problems.
Union
April 27th, 2010
2:19 pm
@mick
oh really? gee I didn’t know that.. So.. are the dems gonna pass their budget before or after the elections? Better not look for the answer here though..
People are so easy.. on both sides.. just a month or two ago.. Obama was talking about how smart and wonderful all these wall street types are.. now that unemployment has not improved and is MUCH worse than they said.. gotta give the people some kind of show..
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:23 pm
“This is an awesome line! May I borrow it? Seriously, not patronizing you.”
LOL, feel free to do so, Mick. A quick google search didn’t turn up any references to it, so it might be an original quote from me. But then again, in the words of John Lennon:
Nothing you can know that isn’t known.
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be.
It’s easy.
So, drop a tab and ponder that for a while!
md
April 27th, 2010
2:26 pm
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.”
“What I worry would be that you essentially still have two chambers, the House and the Senate, but that you simply have majoritarian absolute power on either side. And that’s just not what the founders intended.” – Senator Obama
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:29 pm
“All the answers are here, the solutions to all the problems.”
jefferson, this one goes out to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDaM9AHAqkY
“I tell them there’s no problem, only solutions”
Rightwing Troll
April 27th, 2010
2:31 pm
“The governement took control of health care and as a result, it’s drivimg medical costs up. Oh goodie just what we needed, higer taxes AND higher medical costs.
I don’t trust this admistration to stack toothpicks with out screwing it up.”
Any examples of “medical costs going up”? Or “higher taxes”?
Would you trust the last administration to stack toothpicks?
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:32 pm
“LOL, feel free to do so, Mick.”
Oops–that was Matilda. Must have been some smoke in my eyes or something.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
“The governement took control of health care and as a result, it’s drivimg medical costs up. Oh goodie just what we needed, higer taxes AND higher medical costs.”
That’s weird since it hasn’t even been implemented yet. And I would like to see how government has taken over health care — I might need to tell my sister she is to be a government employee now.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
Bruno,
“By your way of thinking, no one has the moral authority to do what’s right today based on past sins/hypocrisy. Sorry, but I can’t accept simply throwing in the towel due to an impossible moral standard. If me doing the right thing causes you to label me a hypocrite, so be it.”
Not a hypocrite, disingenuous. Republicans have not “seen the light.” They want bipartisan legislation now because they are out of power. Return them to the majority, and see how willing they are to create bipartisan legislation.
The same with deficit spending. Republicans can snipe about it to win elections and do not really have to anything about it other than attend tea parties, but return Republicans to the majority and see how much federal spending they cut…how willing are they to cut part of $1T in defense spending?
md
April 27th, 2010
2:39 pm
“Attorney General Eric Holder says the federal government may challenge Arizona’s new law on immigration.”
Rich – the man in charge of enforcing the law challenging a State law that was written because he wasn’t enforcing the law.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
2:40 pm
I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
Somebody needs remedial help with the Constitution.
Hint: Start with Article 1 Section 5
/drive by
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:40 pm
“Any examples of “medical costs going up”? Or “higher taxes”?”
Considering the new law was passed a few weeks ago and most of it doesn’t go into effect for several years, I doubt that much has changed yet, but it will. It’s as simple as this RT: The main driver of the out-of-control costs in our health care system is the over-reliance on third-party billing. But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:43 pm
Bruno,
“that ultimately the wealthy pay virtually all of the taxes in this country”
Since wealthiest individuals in this country make the most money, they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
2:44 pm
“But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?”
Well…they knew for CERTAIN they’d get no R support for single-payer, so they chose the path most likely to appeal as a bi-partisan issue. It didn’t work, but as someone said before: at least they tried.
Single-payer will come, this just delays it for a while longer.
JohnnyReb
April 27th, 2010
2:45 pm
Good Fight and Mick – think what you will about Beck. He had his act together when he forced Obama to dump Van Jones from the administration (Jones now works for one of George Soro’s anti-American organizations). And, I have not seen him make an idiot of himself yet.
Outhouse GoKart
April 27th, 2010
2:46 pm
Eric Holder…another obama admin do nothing.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:47 pm
“The same with deficit spending. Republicans can snipe about it to win elections and do not really have to anything about it other than attend tea parties, but return Republicans to the majority and see how much federal spending they cut…how willing are they to cut part of $1T in defense spending?”
Unfortunately, jc, I’m probably just as cynical as you are. And believe it or not, 2001-2008 were extremely disappointing years for true conservatives. I was expecting 12 years or more of Democratic rule as a result, but now I’m guessing that 1 1/2 years of Obama and Pelosi have already turned the tide back.
Having said that, I still see no good reason to argue against doing what is right today. If all the “disingenuous” Republican yammering results in some fiscal responsibility from the Dems, then it will have served its purpose.
As always, appreciate the honest dialogue.
Disgusted
April 27th, 2010
2:50 pm
But rather than reducing the role if the insurance companies, the genius Dems increased it by mandating the purchase of insurance. Lo entiende?
An interesting argument. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against “gummit” insurance. They rejected outright the idea of single-payer. They also rejected a Medicare buy-in. And now that we have this sell-out to the insurance companies, it’s the Democrats who are at fault? My, my, how short memories have become!
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
2:52 pm
Bruno,
“Having said that, I still see no good reason to argue against doing what is right today.”
And it will always be the one’s currently in power who define ” what is right.”
@@
April 27th, 2010
2:53 pm
The Tourre fella should be convicted for stupidity. Who communicates their wrong doing thru e-mails when the government can gain access to them? Anyhoo, I read where Tourre also said this:
“As the U.S. housing turned downward in January 2007, a Goldman Sachs trader wrote in e-mails to a woman he apparently was courting that investments he had sold were “like Frankenstein turning against his own inventor.”
So who’s Frankenstein? Fannie? Freddie? Dodd? Barney?
Let’s see some convictions and not just of the scape goats…let’s go for the BIG RAMS.
——————————————-
SoCo:
I don’t see myself as a lefty or hard-left anyway, so that comment doesn’t count, right?
Of course it counts. You’re not a leftist.
(ISH)
Normal may be surprised to read this, but I don’t see him as a leftist either. TnGelding? Nope. Coupl’a others that don’t come to mind right now.
jewcowboy? Sniper, yapping chihuahua, girlie gossip…take your pick. I’ve decided I don’t much care for him although at one time he was bearable.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
2:56 pm
“Since wealthiest individuals in this country make the most money, they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.”
jc–I’ve printed the tables out ad nauseum on this blog. The wealthy are paying virtually all of the income taxes collected in this country, and they pay at the highest rates. As such, there is no change that could be made to the current tax code to make it more “fair” for the non-wealthy. As far as all the other taxes collected, e.g. FICA, gasoline taxes, property taxes, I wouldn’t be against reducing those as well, and would be prepared to accept reduced benefits in return.
“Single-payer will come, this just delays it for a while longer.”
Doggone, not sure if I can take any credit for straightening it out for you, but this is the first time I have seen you honestly state that the Dem law is a step in the wrong direction.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
2:57 pm
Mick:
……….. yes a very slight majority and remember a democracy is the only form of government that is set up to allow its own self-destruction.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
2:57 pm
jewcowboy@ 2:38,
That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November. I’m like seriously?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
@@,
“jewcowboy? Sniper, yapping chihuahua, girlie gossip…take your pick. I’ve decided I don’t much care for him although at one time he was bearable.”
_____________________________________________________________________________
@@
April 26th, 2010
10:57 pm
cowboy:
The only time that I even read you is when your post is addressed to me. Aside from the 10:48 I rarely acknowledge your presence. You on the other hand…
Chances are if you didn’t respond to my posts we’d never cross paths. You leftists are funny that way. You always need to command the board…sitting in wait with nuthin’ to do.
Buona notte, Jack
______________________________________________________________________________
Hmmm….I don’t think my posts were addressed to you…
Mick
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
Scout
This too will pass……man eight long years of bush….it was a drag…and now the tables are reversed it seems…..better days ahead…. hopefully..
Johnnyreb
Sorry again, beck is a loser/user laughing all the way to the bank…he has no cred. except in broadcasting and I’ll give him that..
md
April 27th, 2010
3:02 pm
“That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November. I’m like seriously?”
One can only hope for a balanced gov’t. Compromise and bi-partisanship come easier for those that are forced to get along.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
“but this is the first time I have seen you honestly state that the Dem law is a step in the wrong direction”
Maybe the first time you’ve seen it…not the first time I’ve said it.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
Bosch,
“That’s why I laugh and laugh at those on here who proclaim that all will be righted in November.”
The Republicans claim a mantle of fiscal conservatives, yet their track record doesn’t truly bear this out…just a good PR machine?
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
“An interesting argument. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against “gummit” insurance. They rejected outright the idea of single-payer. They also rejected a Medicare buy-in. And now that we have this sell-out to the insurance companies, it’s the Democrats who are at fault? My, my, how short memories have become!”
Disgusted–The reason for the opposition being that there are viable free-market solutions to lowering the costs of health care delivery. None of those solutions were even considered by the Dems. That door swings both ways, friend.
Personally, I believe single-payer would be far superior to what was passed, but still inferior to true free-market medicine.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:05 pm
“Compromise and bi-partisanship come easier for those that are forced to get along.”
md,
Too bad the Republicans aren’t — except sometimes the Goddess will play nice.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:06 pm
“remember a democracy is the only form of government that is set up to allow its own self-destruction”
all forms of government contain the seeds of their own destruction. It’s not unique to democracies.
Kamchak
April 27th, 2010
3:07 pm
jewcowboy
Looks like you’ve made “the list.”
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:08 pm
And BTW, Disgusted, what did Republican support/opposition have to do with anything anyway? In case you forgot, the legislation passed without the necessity of any R votes at all. This is the Democrat’s baby, lock-stock-and-barrel, so own it.
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:09 pm
“UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” Barack Obama on why we should let the Govt run our HC
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:09 pm
What Blog God? What?
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:10 pm
Oh yes, Blog God, I see now – my bad.
jewcowboy,
“just a good PR machine?”
Or mitigated bullsh*t?
That’s what cracks me up about those of the Earl Grey persuasion and the GOPers screaming about a reduction in federal spending – one man’s earmark is another man’s economic development. They want a reduction of federal spending, but just not what the government spends on them. Oh, then it’s different.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:11 pm
Oh and jewcowboy,
Welcome to the club.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
Bruno,
“and they pay at the highest rates.”
As I said, “they pay the most in taxes…however they do not necessarily pay the highest tax rate.” There is certainly a big loophole to close.
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/pm120/
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
”The reforms we seek would bring greater competition, choice, savings and inefficiencies to our health care system.”
—Barack Obama, in remarks after a health care roundtable with physicians, nurses and health care providers, Washington, D.C., July 20, 2009
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:14 pm
“Looks like you’ve made “the list.”
jc is on my list as well–the one of intelligent bloggers who actually have something to say and can back their position up with a few facts. My list isn’t based on political orientation, simply on the willingness to engage others in an open way.
Now, at the other end of the spectrum:
“You are an absolute dumbass. Why don’t you try to stay on topic instead of trying to change another’s topic and then falling on your face when you are called on it. Go suck an… egg.”
md
April 27th, 2010
3:16 pm
“The Republicans claim a mantle of fiscal conservatives, yet their track record doesn’t truly bear this out…just a good PR machine?”
Again, the GOP and Clinton did pretty good when forced to work with each other toward a balanced budget. They aren’t called right and left for nothing. Left to their own devices, they’d both prefer to stay out there.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Bruno,
Call me crazy, but that’s not the same list of which Kamchak speaks.
How’s the clean up?
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
Hmmm….I don’t think my posts were addressed to you…
Mine wasn’t addressed to you either, it was addressed to SoCo.
I’m referring back to a confab where you, uninvited, included yourself…it went on from there with Normal and then SoCo. TnGelding wasn’t even involved, but he deserved an honorable mention, in my opinion. I doubt seriously he’ll mind my bringing his name up.
You, on the other hand….
Scat!
md
April 27th, 2010
3:20 pm
“Too bad the Republicans aren’t — except sometimes the Goddess will play nice.”
And shame on them to screw the goddess. You just know she wishes for a redo on sending the hc bill to the floor.
And from my vantage point, the dems had the numbers and knew it, so they never intended to compromise. Had MA happened before the senate bill it would have never got out of chamber. It was the dems that needed the forcing.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:20 pm
From your link, jc:
“The professional fund managers of these hedge funds and private equity firms are allowed to treat a substantial portion of their compensation as capital gains, meaning they are most likely taxed at 15% rather than the 35% rate that applies to ordinary income such as wages and salary.”
You’re launching somewhat of a different argument here–capital gains taxes are different from income taxes due to risk inherent in investing. Whether hedge fund managers’ compensation rightly qualifies as capital gains, I’m not sure. But in the end, the wealthy are paying the lion’s share of the taxes. For the 47% who pay nothing, their rate is 0.00%.
Union
April 27th, 2010
3:21 pm
Off Topic… does this blog use wordpress codes or?? I want to work on my smilies
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:21 pm
Bosch,
“They want a reduction of federal spending, but just not what the government spends on them. ”
If one is not willing to cut SS, Medicare, and defense spending (which make-up 60% of the federal budget) then one is not truly serious about the deficit…
TnGelding
April 27th, 2010
3:22 pm
And a lot of dirty work there is to do! I thought I was arrogant.
Test
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
@@,
“Scat!”
Sorry, I’m not a Republican fundraiser…so I’m not into those type of things…
Scout
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
Mick:
I hear you but great damage is being done to the Republic.
DoggoneGA:
Nope. In a democratic form of government the “lemmings” can voluntarily vote themselves into slavery. In other forms of government change is accomplished by force.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:23 pm
“How’s the clean up?”
Thanks for the inquiry. Since I have very little “stuff” to begin with, reassembling the place wasn’t too hard other than re-ordering all the paperwork which was scattered about. I’m sure nothing like having an indoor arborarium.
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
md,
I like to think that the Goddess knew that reform was needed, and this was a first step. She’s so smart and all and so full of goddess wisdom, that I just know that to be the case.
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
A “Coffee Party”(?) demonstration at Wall Street…
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/555599/bank_reform_setback_in_the_senate_action_in_the_streets
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
md,
“Again, the GOP and Clinton did pretty good when forced to work with each other toward a balanced budget.”
What is that saying about if neither side is happy with the outcome, you know its pretty good?
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:26 pm
“In a democratic form of government the “lemmings” can voluntarily vote themselves into slavery. In other forms of government change is accomplished by force.”
and a democracy can be overturned by force. Force is ALWAYS a way to change a government, and it is always a “seed” of that government’s desctruction.
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
3:26 pm
@ RW-(the original)
Your 2:40 indicates:
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.
Somebody needs remedial help with the Constitution.
Hint: Start with Article 1 Section 5″
/drive by
Maybe if your learn to comprehend what you read relative to the statement, then you will have room to speak objectively.
Typical Repub tactic, obfuscate, extrapolate, conflate!
http://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm
Paul
April 27th, 2010
3:27 pm
The hearing’s in recess. One thing clear to me is whatever that reform bill is, it isn’t ready for prime time. Senate questioners don’t have a handle on exactly how the process works, so how can they pass law regulating it? Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.
Doggone/GA
April 27th, 2010
3:28 pm
“Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.”
Personally, I think they should just repeal the changes to Glass-Steagall
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
“If one is not willing to cut SS, Medicare, and defense spending (which make-up 60% of the federal budget) then one is not truly serious about the deficit…”
Then count me among the “truly serious”.
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
Bruno,
“But in the end, the wealthy are paying the lion’s share of the taxes. For the 47% who pay nothing, their rate is 0.00%.”
I would certainly agree. Of course the top 1% of the US own 38% of the wealth, the 10% own 71% of the wealth and the bottom 40% owns less than 1%.
As the ones that own the wealth, the drinks are on the top 10%…
Normal
April 27th, 2010
3:31 pm
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:24 pm
“What is that saying about if neither side is happy with the outcome, you know its pretty good?”
Is that like the saying, “A compromise is the least disliked understanding”?
Jackie
April 27th, 2010
3:31 pm
@md
Your 2:26 reply means what?
It sounds like you don’t believe in a democratic principle of majority rules?
“I seem to recall the Constitution says it only requires a vote by a majority in the House and Senate and a signature by the President to make a bill law.”
“What I worry would be that you essentially still have two chambers, the House and the Senate, but that you simply have majoritarian absolute power on either side. And that’s just not what the founders intended.” – Senator Obama”
Bosch
April 27th, 2010
3:32 pm
Bruno,
Indoor arborarium (cool word, btw) can be nice if planned correctly as I’ve seen in such places as the National Gallery, but in my case it wasn’t planned well. Or at all.
Jewcowboy,
And we all know that those of the Earl Grey persuasion want the government out of their Medicare. Jesus, is that just not the funniest thing ever?
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:32 pm
Off-topic! I remember when the Professor Gates incident came about, I read some of his writings and there was conflict in the Gates I was seeing and the one I was reading.
Giving him credit where due:
“How to Handle the Slavery Blame-Game”
Did these Africans know how harsh slavery was in the New World? Actually, many elite Africans visited Europe in that era, and they did so on slave ships following the prevailing winds through the New World. For example, when Antonio Manuel, Kongo’s ambassador to the Vatican, went to Europe in 1604, he first stopped in Bahia, Brazil, where he arranged to free a countryman who had been wrongfully enslaved.
African monarchs also sent their children along these same slave routes to be educated in Europe. And there were thousands of former slaves who returned to settle Liberia and Sierra Leone. The Middle Passage, in other words, was sometimes a two-way street. Under these circumstances, it is difficult to claim that Africans were ignorant or innocent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/opinion/23gates.html?pagewanted=2
@@
April 27th, 2010
3:34 pm
Paul:
Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.
It’s all about the convenience of timing.
Paul
April 27th, 2010
3:35 pm
Doggone/GA
Many have made the case that repeal of that (under Clinton?) is one of the things that set this mess in motion. If so, makes sense to bring it back.
But it makes sense.. so…. odds on it happening?
jewcowboy
April 27th, 2010
3:36 pm
Bosch,
Though it has nothing to do with the Orange Pekoe Brigade, this my favorite point/counter-point protest:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/30/god-hates-corduroy-skirts
md
April 27th, 2010
3:37 pm
“Hearings like this should’ve been held before writing the legislation.”
Politicians are the only folks that can create a mess and then turn around and campaign to fix it. Not too sure this isn’t their modus operandi.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
3:37 pm
“As the ones that own the wealth, the drinks are on the top 10%…”
Sounds like josef nix is in big trouble then.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
3:38 pm
Doggone/GA:
……….. and you make my point. Force is always a way (even in a democracy) but a democracy is still the only form where it can voluntarily vote itself into slavery “without” Force.
Thank you.