A few conservative voices criticize Arizona law

Arizona’s draconian new law regarding illegal immigration has drawn harsh criticism from many on the left, including President Obama. Most egregious is a provision that requires local law enforcement to check documentation of those they suspect might be in this country illegally, and to detain those who cannot produce such documentation.

In other words, if you look, sound or act as though you might be of Hispanic origin, you risk being accosted by law enforcement officers every time you venture into public. It’s a vast expansion of government power, yet most of those on the right who have claimed to be outraged by imaginary assaults on liberty by the Obama administration have been silent about this very real intrusion.

Instead, we get nonsense such as this tweet from Erick Erickson of CNN and Red State.com, who asks: “If Canadians were crossing illegally N2 Arizona, no one would be playing the race card. Can AZ not respond just b/c of the illegals’ race?”

Given the porous U.S.-Canadian border, I’m sure that there are a good number of Canadians in Arizona without proper papers, especially in the wintertime. And I very much doubt that they will be accosted by Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Phoenix on the street and tossed into the county jail. So yes, race indeed plays a very large role, and it’s ludicrous to pretend otherwise.

However, there are exceptions to the right’s silence, and they should be noted. Former U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough, conservative host of “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, condemns the provision in no uncertain words:

“It does offend me that when one out of every three citizens in the state of Arizona are Hispanics, and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they’re walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they’re walking their child to school, and they’re an American citizen or a legal, legal immigrant, can now put a target on their back and make them think every time they walk out of their door, they may have to prove something. I will tell you that is unAmerican. It is unacceptable, and it’s unAmerican.”

Marco Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants and a conservative Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Florida, has expressed similar concerns:

“States certainly have the right to enact policies to protect their citizens, but Arizona’s policy shows the difficulty and limitations of states trying to act piecemeal to solve what is a serious federal problem. From what I have read in news reports, I do have concerns about this legislation. While I don’t believe Arizona’s policy was based on anything other than trying to get a handle on our broken borders, I think aspects of the law, especially that dealing with ‘reasonable suspicion,’ are going to put our law enforcement officers in an incredibly difficult position. It could also unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens. Throughout American history and throughout this administration we have seen that when government is given an inch it takes a mile.”

We need a rational approach to immigration policy in this country, although many of us would disagree on what might constitute such a policy. However, a law that presumes that a third of the residents of Arizona are here illegally unless and until they can prove otherwise — surely we can agree that is excessive and, as Scarborough calls it, unAmerican.

394 comments Add your comment

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
4:41 pm

As I posted below, this was the talk of the fifth grade today…read the bill…my fifth graders did. And, thanks, Jay, for paying attention. Your words draconian are NOT hyperbole…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:47 pm

Jay:

That’s B.S. and you know it. The police have to have a reason to stop you and THEN they have the right to check citizenship. A country that cannot control it’s borders will cease to be a country. It’s just common sense. You live in your ivory tower here in Atlanta and don’t have to go through what the “citizens” of Arizona (and other states) are going through. People are getting fed up!

I assume you know Mexico has a “zero tolerance” policy for “its” southern border?

BTW: Since when did the U.S. Senate turn into a runaway grand jury instead of a legislative body? Do they not have enough to do ?

Paul

April 27th, 2010
4:47 pm

“If Canadians were crossing illegally N2 Arizona, no one would be playing the race card. Can AZ not respond just b/c of the illegals’ race?”

I asked the other day how this would have been written or enforced in Massachusetts, home to 50,000 illegals.

From Ireland.

Gets me how a state legislature could pass, and the governor could sign, a law so obviously unconstitutional. Waaaay too broad.

Pogo

April 27th, 2010
4:49 pm

Bosch, see downstairs old friend. Jay loves to change topics when I chime in. Tough to keep up with.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:49 pm

Paul:

Illegal aliens DO NOT have the right to be or stay in this country. It cheapens not only your citizenship but the citizenship of every immigrant going through the legal process.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
4:50 pm

Scout

Have you read the bill? It’s only 17 pages.

PAUL
But…but…Ireland is, well, uh, white and English speaking…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:51 pm

P.S. to Paul:

“I hope you have an extra bedroom in your house because I am coming to stay there whether you like it or not.”

How would that make you feel? Should you have any more right to protect your home/property and your right to privacy than our country? I think not.

Puleaze

April 27th, 2010
4:53 pm

God doesn’t recognize borders, were all his children and should be free to go wherever God guides us….

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
4:54 pm

One of my latina coworkers today said only in half jest that she was going to invest in peroxide, blonde hair is about to be the rage…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:55 pm

josef:

Most Hispanic-American citizens and legal immigrants don’t like it either.

“Al Sharpton threatens to go to Phoenix and march in the streets against the new Arizona law. Let him go. Let us see how many African-Americans, who are today frozen out of the 8 million jobs held by illegal aliens that might otherwise go to them or their children, will march to defend an invasion for which they are themselves paying the heaviest price.

Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government – Bush and Obama both – issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

What are we doing to our own people? Whose country is this, anyway?”

Pat Buchanan

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:55 pm

Puleaze :

Then God doesn’t recognize your home either. Open it up !

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
4:56 pm

Scout

I repeat: have you read the bill? The devil is in the details, and this sucker is the work of the devil…

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 27th, 2010
4:57 pm

Well, there wouldn’t of been a need for the AZ law if they followed what I said to do months ago. Just let us rednecks haul the illegals across the border and dump them. It wouldn’t cost nothing except maybe a little gas money. If we make a little mistake now and then, so what?These illegals got to go. If they start hiring them for our jobs, pretty soon they’ll be working so hard, won’t nobody hire us again. They don’t even take decent breaks and you won’t hardly find one that will just take the day off because the sick leave is there to be used and might as well use it. Most of them don’t even know what a good hangover is.

That’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good evening everybody.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:57 pm

Puleaze :

If you will bother to read the O.T. you will find that God articulated the borders of Israel quite specifically.

DOGGONE/STUPID

April 27th, 2010
4:58 pm

How is this any more Draconian than Obama’s health care bill ?

Scout

April 27th, 2010
4:58 pm

josef:

You ignore the issue. Enough is enough. People are fed up. Agree to disagree.

Puleaze

April 27th, 2010
4:58 pm

I spoke to God this morning and she told me borders are for bigots……

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
4:58 pm

Puleaze–

Better be careful about who you invite to spend the weekend at the lake house…you could lose it and wind your G-d fearing a$$ in lockup… jus’ sayin’

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:00 pm

Scout–
I could probably run you a race for non pc opinions on immigration, I’m NOT ignoring the issue. I am scared to death or what’s in store if this thing holds muster with the challenges to its constitutionality. As I said, read it…

@@

April 27th, 2010
5:01 pm

Well, at least it put a fire under the federal government. Up and until Arizona passed this controversial bill, there was little to no discussion on immigration reform. It CERTAINLY gave Obama an opportunity to capitalize on the Latino vote. Not sure it’ll work to his advantage tho.

For some strange reason I was thinking if one is Latino and walking they could be asked to offer proof of residence. As I read the bill it’s all centered around moving violations. Maybe I’m reading it wrong.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:01 pm

Scout,

I would venture I guess somewhere in your past is an immigrant…

@@

April 27th, 2010
5:02 pm

Oops! not necessarily violations. It did focus mainly on vehicles tho.

Union

April 27th, 2010
5:03 pm

mmm.. yeah… you know.. keeping with how “violent” those dang tea baggers are.. maybe we should send them to AZ to take some lessons from the peaceful, bottle throwing, swastika waving, white people beating (in effigy) protesters?

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:06 pm

“Texas has now joined Hawaii, New Mexico and California as a majority-minority state, along with the District of Columbia, the U.S. Census Bureau reported today. Five states — Maryland, Mississippi, Georgia, New York and Arizona — are next in line with minority populations of about 40 percent. (The minority population includes all people except non-Hispanic single-race whites.)”

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/005514.html

There may be a backlash coming, but it certainly isn’t what the Orange Pekoe Brigade is expecting….

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:06 pm

@@

Not if you read the bill more closely–just speaking Spanish can be used as “reasonable suspicion.”

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:08 pm

jewcowboy:

Yes ……….. legal.

Puleaze:

“God is not mocked.” You’re on your own. Wish you well.

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
5:08 pm

Scout…..ummm… good thing you have retired from law enforcement. Reasonable suspicion (even under Terry v Ohio) requires a statement of articulable reasons to stop. Now what would that be in this case: they were brown, they wore shoes from Walmart?, they spoke spanish?. This is not a check in conjunction with another proper stop.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:09 pm

josef nix,

“just speaking Spanish can be used as “reasonable suspicion.”

I think I just saw sales of “marguerita’s” drop in Arizona…

Road Scholar

April 27th, 2010
5:09 pm

If you have a tan, I wonder if those “In God we trust” license tag stickers will keep you from getting stopped?

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
5:10 pm

OMFG!!! That’s all I have to say about that.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:11 pm

“just speaking Spanish can be used as “reasonable suspicion.”

Sounds great to me. If I am in a foreign country, get stopped for something, and can’t speak their language (or speak an odd dialect of English) I expect the police to immediately ask me for my passport. No problem.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:11 pm

Scout,
“Yes ……….. legal.”

So what was the point of the post of Pat Buchanan condemning legal immigration @ 4.55?

“Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government – Bush and Obama both – issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

What are we doing to our own people? Whose country is this, anyway?”

Puleaze

April 27th, 2010
5:12 pm

The Koran is the truth, the Bible is fiction…..

Rightwing Troll

April 27th, 2010
5:12 pm

If we ran off the “illegals” there would quite literally be a shortage of the “unskilled” and hard laborers.

For all the lip service you wingnuts put to this, you ignore one simple fact: Americans are too fat, lazy, and entitled to dig a ditch.

Besides you can’t dig a ditch with a cell phone in one hand… this demographic is full of white folks with R’s and D’s beside thier names, trailer parks are full of both.

Yah, I know, Obama made them ALL entitled in the last 16 months… I get it, it’s ALL Obama’s fault.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
5:13 pm

I’m willing to wager that if ALL states did the exact same thing, but instead of using reasonable suspicion, they stopped everyone and checked for “papers”, the image used to portray illegals would forever be changed.

If AZ wants to prove themselves, check EVERYONE!!

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:13 pm

jewcowboy:

Simple:

1) Even legal immigration must be controlled and given time to absorb. And it should definitely be curtailed during times when Americans don’t have jobs.

2) Obama and crew are just trying to bring in more future Democratic votes.

Next Question.

DannyX

April 27th, 2010
5:14 pm

I spoke to God too. He made it clear that he doesn’t see this as a case of “illegal alien.” God said they are “Christian immigrants.”

God said he rewards these people with a good life in the USA. He said they work hard. He said he loves them, a lot. He then said we better be nice to them.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:14 pm

“God is not mocked.”

So..you’re God now, Scout? Who knew? Is your first name Bruce?

Rightwing Troll

April 27th, 2010
5:16 pm

“Puleaze:

“God is not mocked.” You’re on your own. Wish you well.”

Yes he is, each and every day, right here, by those who profess to be “true” christians yet have darkness in thier heart and soul. This blog is a fine example of that on a daily basis…

Beezlebub

April 27th, 2010
5:16 pm

Why would your God give me free will, if your God can’t handle being mocked. I thought your God was all powerful, why play head games? Is your God perverted?

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
5:20 pm

Josef,

Unless you let your students read the national laws on immigration you have given them a one sided debate. The AZ bill does have lines that are reminiscent of dictatorial times as in Germany before WWII. But to take one side only in a debate does not leave an open mind.

I would doubt, because you care so much for your students, that you mention the bad effects of illegal immigration. But there is that situation and it has become a menace in Arizona and beyond. .

Since you are such an excellent writer and thinker, I hope you have suggested a solution to your lawmakers as to how to solve the problem of ALL illegals in the USA. Or do you think we should have any laws at all concerning those who come here illegally?

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:20 pm

Scout,

“Next Question.”

How about the fact that there are jobs that Americans are not filling b/c they are too busy getting MBA’s?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1743493.stm

Brad Steel

April 27th, 2010
5:21 pm

Wow! The states are really encroaching everyone’s right to be left alone.

But not expecting too much outrage from the right on this one. Wonder why?

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:21 pm

SoCo

I agree, sauce for the goose…check everybody, no question…invasion of privacy…perhaps, but the Constitution is not at issue here just yet…

Puleaze
“The Koran is the truth, the Bible is fiction…..”

That statement is as full of sh*t as the proverbial Christmas turkey…neither is truth and neither is fiction…

SCOUT

Spanish has been spoken in the United States (and Georgia) longer than English…you know history well enough to know that…we have no official language in the United States for a good reason and our forefathers knew that…sorry, Pombo, but as my quebecois neighbors say, “je me souviens…aussi.”

jefferson

April 27th, 2010
5:21 pm

Who pays for the jails when they are full?

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:22 pm

Scout,

“2) Obama and crew are just trying to bring in more future Democratic votes.”

And Bush was helping?

“Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government – Bush and Obama both – issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:22 pm

Doggone/GA:

Take it up with Him:

Galatians 6:7 (New International Version)
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.”

Del

April 27th, 2010
5:23 pm

The most important responsibility that a C&C has is our nations security and the well being of its people. Unfortunately this responsibility as it pertains to our Southern border has not been met. This has led the state of Arizona to act on its own based on suffering illegal immigration in the extreme. It’s unimaginable how anyone can be pointing a finger of blame at the state government in AZ., while completely ignoring the lack of action of the elected officials in Washington D.C. This politically correct vote pandering in my view is nothing less than treason.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:23 pm

Brad Steel,

“Wonder why?”

Because they can’t dress up as colonialists?

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:24 pm

josef:

Of course Bush helped. He didn’t have the guts to do what needed to be done with illegal immigration. That was my biggest disappointed in him.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:24 pm

Del:

Good point and “treason” is the word.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:25 pm

“Take it up with Him:”

The sound of the point whooshing right by Scout. He was mocking YOU, not God.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:26 pm

DUSTY

Our topic was the bill itself in relation to Arizona…we talk about immigration a lot in my class since it is an issue that directly affects them on a daily basis. I don’t present any of my own opinions.
I don’t have to. They have plenty. Some are illegal, some are legal, some are first generation and some are third, fourth, fifth generation…as I tell them, this is for you to decide…

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
5:26 pm

I know the logistics would be a nightmare, but I would love to see all the Hispanics in Arizona pack up and move to neighboring states for a while just to see how Arizona’s remaining population liked it once they got what they asked for.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:27 pm

from the book of jewcowboy…kitten sneezes 7:15 (NewCentury Gothic Typeset edition)

“Mock anything you want”

Beezlebub

April 27th, 2010
5:28 pm

Springsteen is the boss, ergo God to qoute God, “Baby we were born to run…..”

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:28 pm

I wonder how much this will cost the taxpayers in AZ from the lawsuits stemming from the wrongful imprisonment of US citizens…

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:29 pm

DEL

Your point on Arizona dealing with the problem as acute is well taken. It is not finger pointing, though, to look at how–and Jay’s word is correct–draconian the provisions are…just read the sections of the bill dealing with the protection of snitches…as Dusty said, and she’s a conservative, some of the provisions are straight out of nazi Europe…

jefferson

April 27th, 2010
5:29 pm

The worms are out of the can and AZ will not solve its problem, they will only make it worse with this approach.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:29 pm

“Failure to properly control our borders costs citizens in many ways: schools become overcrowded, medical resources are stretched too thin, other government services are overtaxed, and taxes increase further.” Author Unknown

“He can fight terrorists overseas, but he leaves our borders so they can come in here and do their thing.” Tom Tancredo

DannyX

April 27th, 2010
5:29 pm

“Obama and crew are just trying to bring in more future Democratic votes”

Just think. All those ‘Christian immigrants’ from the south President Reagan gave amnesty to a while back now all have children and probably grandchildren by now. Reagan created millions of new Democrats. Now voting!

Thank you President Reagan. God Bless you.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:31 pm

“but I would love to see all the Hispanics in Arizona pack up”

And I have a warped sense of humor…I’d like to see all the Hispanics in the surrounding states move TO Arizona. That’d keep the police busy!

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:33 pm

Doggone/GA:

“The sound of the point whooshing right by Scout. He was mocking YOU, not God.”

You don’t know how much your post was music to my ears …………………… thank you.

Matthew 5:11
“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:34 pm

DannyX:

Unfortunately yes, and the result is Obama.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:34 pm

jefferson @ 5:29

“The worms are out of the can and AZ will not solve its problem, they will only make it worse with this approach.”

Much agreed. This bill was reactionary and that’s not good.

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
5:35 pm

Dear SoCo,

At one time, nobody was checked at airports before they got on the plane. All they needed was a ticket . But that changed. Why? Because it became dangerous not to check passengers. And you can check them even more if you think they look suspicious. Seems to be AZ has come to that stage.

Probably the next step will be to check All papeers on everybody as you suggested. I wonder how this works on the Indian Reservations in AZ. The Navajo Reservation is the size of West Virginia. They have their own police force as do the others tribes. Just wondering how complicated this will get. But AZ has thousands of citizens who are not white and I think this new law is an attempt at law and order. I have been to AZ so many times and never saw any out right prejudice. There have always been a great mix of skin color in AZ. It is nothing new.

.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:35 pm

“for my sake.”

Nice quote, but he wasn’t mocking you for Christ’s sake. Try again. There’s BOUND to be something in there that fits, if you look hard enough.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:36 pm

Maybe AZ should ask Perry about using his cameras.

http://www.texastribune.org/stories/2010/apr/20/texas-border-cameras-153k-arrest/

$153K per arrest…kind of expensive, but at least it’s virtually worthless in its objectives…oh well Federal taxpayers only had to cough up $4M for it…

How is that for Republican fiscal conservatism?

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
5:36 pm

And I have a warped sense of humor…I’d like to see all the Hispanics in the surrounding states move TO Arizona. That’d keep the police busy!

Actually, I like your warped sense of humor. How ’bout one month with and one month without. Let the folks there have a taste of the extremes before deciding.

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
5:37 pm

hey Scout & Del….a much easier way to solve the problem…shoot and kill everyone who does not look like a citizen…. I mean based on your arguments, anything is justified when the Feds do not act in accordance with your desires (although they have increased patrols and made new laws, etc). I mean we cannot blame AZ and the Ayran Nation influenced sponsor of the bill for taking any action even if it is over the line. Anything goes under your arguments right?

N-GA

April 27th, 2010
5:38 pm

Arizona – The Re-birthplace of Fascism.

“Show me your PAPERS!”

Paul

April 27th, 2010
5:38 pm

Scout 4:49

I said nothing about whether or not people who arrived here illegally should remain. I addressed the Arizona statute. This is the relevant part:

” For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person”

How, if you were a defense attorney representing a police officer, would you advise him to state what constitutes “reasonable suspicion that the person is an alien’? I also have difficulty with the ‘lawful contact’ portion.

It’s rather like having a person who is ill and one doctor advises antibiotics and the other advises leeches. That the person is ill is a given; what to do about it is the question.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:38 pm

Doggone/GA:

More music to my ears. Keep it coming.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:38 pm

from the book of jewcowboy… Limoges 18:3 (NewCentury Gothic Typeset edition)

“Blessed is the one who does not babble about the bible or their god on a blog, but keeps it in church.”

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:39 pm

Keep up the good fight!:

Infantile response – not reasoned debate.

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
5:40 pm

Scout feels persecuted. Awwwww.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:40 pm

jewcowboy:

“Jesus said, go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY creature” !

……….. and they didn’t even have churches back then !

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:40 pm

PAUL
Someone who has actually read the bill…as I said below, this is chilling….

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
5:41 pm

Scout…a perfectly reasoned logical extension of your argument and perfectly acceptable in court and in law school…but of course, duck the question.

Del

April 27th, 2010
5:41 pm

Josef,

If the fed was performing its elected responsibility by securing our Southern border by force if necessary, I would be inclined to take issue with any state law that targets race as a crime fighting tactic. I don’t believe that Arizona wants to unfairly target Hispanics and while it may be an unfortunate unintended circumstance our federal government doesn’t deserve a pass as they attempt to make AZ. the scape goat for their own inaction.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:43 pm

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
5:43 pm

Dusty

The problem with that law is whether or not it ends up being a 4th Amendment issue. The only law enforcement agency that has some leeway with the 4th is CBP, and that’s only in relation to border searches. I’m not weighing in on this law until I can read it completely. However, the idea of the law does seem to kind of flip the middle finger towards the 4th. Reasonable suspicion is going to have to go beyond skin color and languages.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:43 pm

Paul:

” For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person”

I LOVE IT!

Lawful contact? …………. presence, verbal, soft hands, hard hands, chemical weapon, taser, contact weapon, lethal force.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:44 pm

Paul

April 27th, 2010
5:44 pm

TaxPayer

Some years back a DVD was released – “A day without a Mexican.” Was quite funny – all the Mexicans disappeared and all these Anglos are saying “It’s the Rapture!!!! Yes!!!! Wait….. the Mexicans are gone…. and I’m still here?!!?”

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:44 pm

“More music to my ears. Keep it coming.”

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

jefferson

April 27th, 2010
5:45 pm

If you think this is a simple problem, you don’t know the logistics or you are simple minded.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:45 pm

jewcowboy – “but keeps it in church.”

My favorite one is: don’t TELL me you’re a Christian, SHOW me

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:45 pm

Keep up the good fight! :

Sorry ………. playground stuff.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:46 pm

Paul @ 5.38,

There will be two ways this goes down…

1. Police depts. with large budgets or with little to do will go overboard with this law
2. Police depts. with small budgets or overburdened and understaffed will ignore the law except possibly when using it to arrest someone for which they have no other probable cause

At least that is the way I see it implemented…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:47 pm

DoggoneGA:

Good one. Keep it coming. It’s always good for others to read scripture. It might help them.

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:47 pm

“person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States,”

Well, that lets all Earthlings out. It’s only those darn “aliens” we have to worry about. Been any UFO sightings in AZ lately?

Cornelius Lonkar

April 27th, 2010
5:48 pm

It’s time some state stands up. The Federal government won’t do it. to touchy. It’s time to stand up and send the illegals back to mexico, or were ever.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:48 pm

DEL
And if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his a$$ when he jumps, but he don’t so he does. Iffing it does not diminish the reactionary, draconian measures of this bill and if you doubt that it’s aim is not to unfairly target latinos, then I’ve got a rose colored bridge up in New York you might be interested in…

@@

April 27th, 2010
5:49 pm

josef:

I took a closer look. When I read the bill the first time I did wonder about people who had a friend picking them up for work. Anyhoo, is the part you’re talking about in Sec. 5?

Sec. 5. that addresses unlawful stopping to hire and pick up passengers for work; unlawful application, solicitation or employment

It is unlawful for a person who is unlawfully present in the United States and who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work, solicit work in a public place or perform work as an employee or independent contractor in this state.

“Solicit” means verbal or nonverbal communication by a gesture or a nod that would indicate to a reasonable person that a person is willing to be employed.

Maybe it would behoove those looking for workers, as well as the workers themselves, to initiate a list of legal immigrants who are looking for short-term work.

I’m just asking, ’cause I don’t have the solution. It should have never come to this. The onus is on the federal government for letting it go unaddressed for so long.

Don’t go gettin’ pithy with me.

(ISH)

Del

April 27th, 2010
5:49 pm

Scout,

I have to saddle up and pick up my daughter. It appears that you’re handling the incoming very well though. Will try to reengage later. Out

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:49 pm

DoggoneGA,

“My favorite one is: don’t TELL me you’re a Christian, SHOW me”

I’d rather they do neither…keep it to themselves…

Jesus, save me from your followers ;)

@@

April 27th, 2010
5:49 pm

DANG! Straight up after paragraph 4.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:50 pm

jewcowboy–

Or somebody you don’t like the shoes they’re wearing who just happened to cross your path on a bad hair day…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:51 pm

Hey libs.:

No guts if you don’t watch this all the way through ………….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

Hehehehe…

Here we have a call for the federal government to stand up and do something, yet some of the same people have been arguing that the federal government has already been overstepping their authority and needs to be scaled back. How can you increase presence and enforcement of immigration laws and cut the government at the same time?

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

josef nix,

“Or somebody you don’t like the shoes they’re wearing who just happened to cross your path on a bad hair day…”

If I had that power…watch out!

DoggoneGA

April 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

“I’d rather they do neither…keep it to themselves”

Nope, can’t agree with that. If they lived the lives of Christians, rather than the lives of preachers, we’d be better off. Yes, it’s the followers…not the “livers” who are the problem.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON’S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
27 C. IF AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS
28 CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM
29 IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE ALIEN SHALL BE
30 TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND
31 CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Sounds more like common sense law enforcement than draconian. Notice how Rubio says his impression is from what he reads in the press. If Rubio thinks he’s getting the straight scoop from the press he’s in big trouble.

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
5:53 pm

Scout…..sure then….. so what is your distinction? But of course you have no legitimate answer. Perhaps because of the bible/scripture childishness you want to play now instead of real discussion. You have argued that because feds did not act, state was justified in action and apparently not constrained by constitution or numerous other laws. Where exactly is the line you want to draw? Come on now…a 1st year law student can do this reasonably well. Surely you know Terry v Ohio and the lines of cases that follow.

Paul

April 27th, 2010
5:54 pm

jewcowboy

Police Chief: “you want me to pull all all those radar cops and have them patrol for people looking for work? You know how much ticket revenue we’ll lose?”

Del

April 27th, 2010
5:54 pm

Josef,

I think its aim is to go after illegals and discourage their INVASION. Something once again the FED should be doing. Got to go…later.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:54 pm

@@

“I’m just asking, ’cause I don’t have the solution. It should have never come to this. The onus is on the federal government for letting it go unaddressed for so long.”

And this is the crux of the matter…

That section you quoted is one of many in the bill which raises a red flag…

This thing is only going to build a wall between our latino citizens and their neighbors…it will be to the point that you will find it “safer” just not to associate with them at all…

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:56 pm

Scout,

“No guts if you don’t watch this all the way through …”

Back at you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTegy6sBQVA

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
5:56 pm

Alll of you ;need to go live in AZ for a while. It is a beautiful place. It is not filled with hateful people sneering at brown skin people because many of them have brown skin or “red skin” or olive skin or white skin. It is a fine mix of people who have grown together as a state.

This new law is a reaction to lawlessness. Yes, lawlessness. Hordes of people are slipping across the border, some looking for work, some from drug cartels. They die in the desert by the hundreds every summer. They occassionally murder someone in their way like ranchers along the border.

I worked a short distance from the border in an Indian hospital in the Desert. We had a patient brought in half dead who was illegal. He was lucky. Many don’t make it. Some of the trailers on the hospital compound were robbed by illegals searching for food. Since that time condition have become much worse. The whole state is being beseiged. I think you should be fair about youtr; judgements. Arizona is in a state of seige as far as illegals. The state has taken desperate measures as others have not worked.

I think you should BE THERE

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:56 pm

Keep up the good fight!:

I’ve read it. Looks great to me. Let ‘er rip.

Del:

Roger …….. shot out. Standby to adjust over.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
5:56 pm

Paul @ 5.54,

Bingo!

Scout

April 27th, 2010
5:58 pm

jewcowboy:

Sorry, no can do. You didn’t have time to watch all of mine first.

Dusty:

They live here in their Ivory towers that’s why.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
5:58 pm

RW

Reasonable suspicion? Where is that defined in this bill or anywhere else…way too broad.

dtboy

April 27th, 2010
5:59 pm

Civil rights are reserved for legal citizens. Human rights do not give your the authority to commit crimes. If I steal to feed myself, I’ve still committed a crime and should be punished. We cannot operate within a society where one person has justification for committing a crime against another man, based on human and/or civil rights.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
5:59 pm

Dusty

Some of my co-workers were there as of late 2009. Some are scheduled to go later this year. I’ve seen the photos and heard the stories. I’m not on the list, so I won’t get to experience it firsthand. All I can say is, smaller government leads to smaller results and less effect in some cases.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:00 pm

I’m still waiting for teabaqqer to denounce this as an government infringement on citizens freedom…or does that only apply to white citizens?

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:00 pm

josef,

If you’re worried about vague language about “reasonable suspicion” in laws then you’ve got a lot bigger fight on your hands. You can find them in every state in the country.

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:02 pm

This thing is only going to build a wall between our latino citizens and their neighbors…it will be to the point that you will find it “safer” just not to associate with them at all.

Not as far as I’m concerned. I’ll be hanging with whom I please and challenge anyone who questions my motives. I don’t mean to make light of your concerns but let’s see how this thing plays out…kinks and all.

All throughout the act it appeared as though Arizona was sending a message to the federal government. “We’re doing your job now here they are. What are you gonna do with them?”

I’ll read the bill further. All that legal mumbo jumbo gives me a headache. Have to read it half a dozen times looking for the nuances, never knowing, for sure, if I’ve spotted one or not.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
6:03 pm

Reasonable suspicion is what it has always been. No change there. Once you have established that (or especially probable cause that a crime has been committed) you simply document their legal status to be in the country.

I LOVE IT !

O.K. guys ……….. got to go out on patrol and look for illegal aliens. Back later.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:03 pm

dtboy,

“Civil rights are reserved for legal citizens. ”

How about the civil rights of legal citizen of Hispanic descent being legally harrassed and detained by the state on the basis of his skin or the language he chooses to speak?

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:04 pm

Oh! That 6:02 was for josef.

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
6:06 pm

Josef,

I think you are wrong. Arizona is under seige. They have had people of many skin colors for centuries, many of them brown. This is a desperation measure. It is against a criminal element which stems from illlegal people there. Unless you live there and see that, you are assuming something that is not true.

I do agree that some of the law sounds drastic. Those parts will change. But not before law and order are established. If someone invades your home, do you check their skin color before you decide whether or not to take action? You are jumping at easy condemnation. That too is not good. .

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
6:06 pm

Some years back a DVD was released – “A day without a Mexican.”

Who was the lead actor? and Chong!

N-GA

April 27th, 2010
6:09 pm

Then there will be a 5th generation Mexican-American legally carrying a concealed weapon and an Arizona law-enforcement officer will get overly gung-ho….and someone is going to die.

Jerome

April 27th, 2010
6:09 pm

Boobies 2:2 “On the 3rd or 4th day (after God proclaimed, “Grass on the infield play ball”) God put nipples on the thing he gave a rib and it was good……

durden

April 27th, 2010
6:10 pm

If the Feds were willing to enforce the law this would never have happened. Dems want the voters because they enjoy using fraud to win elections and the GOP wants illegals to get around tax minimum wage laws. In the end we all lose. At least AZ is willing to ENFORCE THE LAW!!!!!!!

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:11 pm

Jerome:

Are you lost?

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
6:11 pm

If the Arizona cops charged a fee for each ID they checked, they could balance the state budget and solve their “illegal immigrant issue” at the same time.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:11 pm

durden,

“At least AZ is willing to ENFORCE THE LAW!!!!!!!”

No…they are willing to pass the law…we shall see if it is enforced and how.

Franz Ferdinand

April 27th, 2010
6:11 pm

I think it would be wise to kick out of the good ole USA any veteran who served in a losing was (Vietnam), we need a winners only bill……

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:12 pm

“Boobies 2:2 “On the 3rd or 4th day (after God proclaimed, “Grass on the infield play ball”) God put nipples on the thing he gave a rib and it was good……”

That makes about as much sense as Scout’s bible quotes…

durden

April 27th, 2010
6:13 pm

I think it needs to be mentioned that nearly 50% of Arizonas have some Hispanic heritage and that their are a ton of hispanic police officers. Do you think they will have a problem looking for illegals? No, because they support this law and know that illegals commit a disproportionate number of the violent crimes in the state.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:15 pm

durden,

“No, because they support this law and know that illegals commit a disproportionate number of the violent crimes in the state.”

link please…

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:15 pm

@@

And like you, I’ll hang out with whom I choose, too and challenge anyone who questions me and do it as citizen with a bad a$$ “bring it on…” and, truth be told, it’s law there now and we have no choice but to see how it plays out kinks and all.

RW
You betcha any time we’re talking law, my antennae go up over vagueness…

DUSTY
Again, I am not arguing that Arizona is not faced with the front line dealing with the problem…but that is no rationale for so unthoughtout legislation. I think there’s way too many Carpetbaggers here in Georgia…so that means we can pass legislation of this type? Would that we could… :-)

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
6:15 pm

ahhh…the book of boobies…. right before the book of bJob right?

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
6:16 pm

Why aren’t there more white police officers in Arizona! I heard they pay $50/hour for that work too.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:17 pm

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:20 pm

Critics have focused on the term “reasonable suspicion” to suggest that the law would give police the power to pick anyone out of a crowd for any reason and force them to prove they are in the U.S. legally. Some foresee mass civil rights violations targeting Hispanics.

What fewer people have noticed is the phrase “lawful contact,” which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. “That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he’s violated some other law,” says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. “The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop.”

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Byron-York/A-carefully-crafted-immigration-law-in-Arizona-92136104.html#ixzz0mLFM9Ikp

It’s well worth the read too. Even the AJC hysterics get a mention.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:20 pm

Just for the record here, I grew up in the Deep South in the 1960s. “Reasonable suspicion?” Been there, bought the t-shirt…

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:22 pm

To be fair and balanced, law enforcement oughta ask for papers of those who don’t even look Latino. I mean if it’s the citizens that wanted it, then why not share in the inconvenience.

Works for me. I’d be one of those who was stopped on complexion alone.

N-GA

April 27th, 2010
6:22 pm

I’m sure the Jews in pre-war Germany can relate to this Arizona problem. What’s next?

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:22 pm

You betcha any time we’re talking law, my antennae go up over vagueness…

josef,

I’ve read the Arizona bill and it’s far less vague than any of the things our Congress has been debating and/or passing for the last year or so.

Jackie

April 27th, 2010
6:23 pm

The profiles in courage that pretend to be Senators have voted to kill debate on the bill for bank reform.
Such political courage is enabled by those that support such foolishness.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:24 pm

RW

Yes, they can pick anyone out of a crowd (been there, too) and cart them off if they don’t pass “reasonable suspicion.” Whether or not it was “reasonable” will be determined in a costly court case…

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:24 pm

josef nix,

“Been there, bought the t-shirt…”

And it did not stop in the 60’s:

http://www.towleroad.com/2010/03/bar-raid-charges-of-atlanta-eagle-employees-dismissed-by-judge.html

Dave

April 27th, 2010
6:25 pm

“MSNBC News Flash: Arizona Law ‘Makes it a Crime to be Illegal Immigrant’ ”

Can’t make this stuff up…

AmVet

April 27th, 2010
6:25 pm

Welcome to Arizona! Trying hard to be the 1938 Germany of America! Papers please…

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:25 pm

Yes, they can pick anyone out of a crowd

josef,

No they can’t. Did you read the part about needing lawful contact first?

Del

April 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

SoCo@5:52pm,

Apples and Oranges

DK

April 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

If 11 million stop paying income taxes, would they be getting the same treatment?

Paul

April 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

Sen Coburn (R-Ok) at the hearings: “I think 90% of the blame for the mortgage meltdown goes to Congress. We don’t call hearings and do oversight to see how things are going.”

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

N-GA

For a change we’re on the same page here…Unmentionable made the comment, “how long before a Herschel Grynszpan and a Kristallnacht…?” This is the step that led to that…

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:28 pm

RW

Lawful contact is the actual presence of a law enforcement official…

Dave

April 27th, 2010
6:30 pm

“Roswell police have ‘mandatory’ DUI goal
AJC Exclusive: Cops risk poor performance evaluations if they fall short”

As if we didn’t already know they have “quotas”… sorry if it’s a little off topic

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
6:32 pm

Del

How so? Would it not expand the federal government if they hired more ICE agents, Border Patrol Agents, or CBP Officers? Isn’t that the opposite of making the government smaller? It would cause an increase of hundreds of millions in spending to hire, train, and pay those agents and officers. Not to mention the benefits and extra equipment purchases (guns, uniforms, vehicles, radios, etc…)

I see it as one and the same.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
6:32 pm

josef nix,

This law does remind me of Martin Niemöller.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:32 pm

AmVet–Thank G-d you’re here on this…aber wir muessen hier Ordnung haben…Latienen, ‘raus!

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:32 pm

Lawful contact is the actual presence of a law enforcement official…

josef,

No it isn’t. It requires that lawful contact is due to the investigation of a different criminal activity.

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
6:33 pm

RW did you include in your little Wash Post tribute to Kris Kobach, the self-proclaimed author of the AZ immigration bill, his background with white supremacist organizations.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:34 pm

jewcowboy–

“This law does remind me of Martin Niemöller.”

And he has many congregants hereabouts…

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:35 pm

RW

Keep reading the bill…

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:37 pm

josef:

” Whether or not it was “reasonable” will be determined in a costly court case…

Doesn’t the ACLU work pro bono?

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:37 pm

josef,

Frankly I don’t think your 5th graders are well served by the way you’re hyperventilating over this. The bill is very easy to understand and I find nothing in it that should cause this hysteria.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:39 pm

Keep,

If you’re going to smear somebody as a white supremacist shouldn’t it be you providing some facts to back up your allegations?

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:41 pm

@@
Yes, they do and you can bet they’re gearing up for this…

RW
FYI, I do NOT hyperventilate in my classroom. I am a professional. I come here for that.

jt

April 27th, 2010
6:44 pm

All I know is that, if I was Barry Soweto,

I would stay away from Sheriff Arapaho AND Arizona.

Those guys probably aren’t as understanding as our Lame Stream Media is when it comes to proper documentation.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:44 pm

josef,

So why did your 5th graders take up the bill? You’ve also said you use this blog as a teaching tool so it doesn’t really matter where you do your hyperventilating.

Brakeman

April 27th, 2010
6:44 pm

Franz Ferdinand:

You sure are hung-up on that Vietnam thing. I’m betting a vet stole your girlfriend once ……………

jt

April 27th, 2010
6:46 pm

THE remains of Noah’s Ark have been discovered 13,000ft up a Turkish mountain, it has been claimed.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2949640/Noahs-Ark-found-in-Turkey.html#ixzz0mLM7SAB2

Gracie

April 27th, 2010
6:46 pm

Actually, I don’t think a police officer would have reasonable cause to stop an Hispanic family walking their dog through a neighborhood. Unless, of course, the family came tumbling out of the back of a box truck blinking against the daylight, and looking like they have no idea where they are and what to do next.

The law is an attempt to enforce existing laws.

Not likely that anyone speaking Spanish would be targeted, unless there is reasonable cause to suspect they are illegal.

Bee

April 27th, 2010
6:48 pm

The actual Bill does not make a distinction on who qualifies as a suspected immigrant. Without warrant, anyone, of any race, who is suspected of being an immigrant, and is without proof of citizenship can be arrested and detained by the Police. This Bill leaves absolute power to the Police in Arizona and protects them from personal trial for false arrest. Whether or not a person is anti-immigration reform, or pro-immigration reform, sacrificing personal Freedoms of “due process” allowed to us in the Bill of Rights to simply flesh out illegal immigrants is a terrifying step towards a tyranny style Government.
I see this as a non-partisan issue. I see this as a “WTF” issue. Anyone entering the state of Arizona, of any race, should be aware that they may at the discretion of any police officer, arrested and detained unless they have proof of Citizenship.

Also- Evidently, proof of Citizenship requires a Passport, a Birth Certificate or an Immigration card.

Scooter

April 27th, 2010
6:50 pm

The bill is very easy to understand

Dang RW, I’m glad you find it easy to understand.Whew! I know I’m not smarter than a fifth grader now.

Disgusted

April 27th, 2010
6:51 pm

I’m astonished to learn that the illegal immigration problem has not been solved by now. Didn’t our last Republican Congress pass huge appropriations to build border fences and add thousands of border patrol agents? Please don’t try to tell me that these measures didn’t work. We were assured that they would, and I, of course, always believe in our Republican representatives and senators. Besides, Tom Tancredo would not have retired if the illegal immigrant problem was still extant.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:51 pm

RW
Most of my kids have a personal interest in this bill and their parents are talking about it. When they asked me, I asked them did they know what the bill entailed. They are the ones who went to the internet and found it. I left the interpretation to them and told them to talk about it among themselves and with their grown ups. And yes I use this blog as a teaching tool and as they want to know more, I will use the various comments here (not mine under my name, I never would do that) and let them be the judge according to their own perspectives. I am not in their lives to tell them WHAT to think, but HOW to come to their own conclusions. And, no, I don’t tell them it’s Jay’s blog, I just tell them “a” blog…

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:54 pm

josef,

You’ve said you use your real name here. If you also use your real name in the classroom just how hard do you think it would be to find out it was Jay B’s blog?

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
6:54 pm

Actually RW, because he is a public figure different standards apply…but here you go…
Kobach is attorney for the Immigration Reform Law Institute, the legal arm of FAIR, founded by John Tanton…. Now you can go look up John Tanton and his racist memo from the Southern Poverty Law Center…try 10.10.1986. Or the 1993 letter talking about the need for a European-AMerican majority. That’s a start. FAIR has received over $1 million in funding from the Pioneer Fund, a group dedicated to proving the racial superiority of white people.

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
6:54 pm

durden said, “I think it needs to be mentioned that nearly 50% of Arizonas have some Hispanic heritage and that their are a ton of hispanic police officers. Do you think they will have a problem looking for illegals? No, because they support this law and know that illegals commit a disproportionate number of the violent crimes in the state.”

Arizona Police Agencies Not In Agreement Over Immigration Law
check it out:
http://www.kpho.com/news/23155537/detail.html

By the way, police officers are sworn to uphold the law regardless of how they feel about any given law. I am a Viet Nam era veteran. Like a number of my buddies, I was against the war. But we followed orders.

stands for decibels

April 27th, 2010
6:56 pm

Since nobody seems to have mentioned Lindsey Graham yet, it seems worth noting that he thinks the AZ law is unconstitutional.

Gracie

April 27th, 2010
6:56 pm

I think Grady Hospital would be in good shape, but for having to treat all the illegals who show up there and don’t pay taxes to support it. What if all the school systems were legally supported by the parents of all the children who attended that school? What resources do illegals use that they don’t pay for?

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
6:57 pm

BEE

Exactly my point. As I said below, my own stance on the problem of illegal immigration is pretty far from pc, but the issue here is not nearly so much the target population as it is the fast and loose way it is playing with constitutional principles…

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
6:57 pm

Oh and article 8 about suing cities and governments and being able to collect attorneys fees and costs…that is what FAIR does… they just funded their racist organization with a state law.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
6:58 pm

Phoenix has become the kidnapping capital of the United States, because of illegal immigration and human smuggling, according to the head of the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association.

In the past year, there were 359 kidnappings in Phoenix, and not one was legitimate involving a truly innocent victim, said Mark Spencer, head of the union which represents more than 2,500 Phoenix police officers. He said all the kidnappings were connected to illegal immigration and the numbers may represent just the tip of the iceberg.

“The investigators up at the violent crimes bureau are estimating that this 359 represents just one-third of the reported kidnappings that take place in Phoenix,” Spencer said.

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=877515

It’s not like they don’t have a problem to deal with.

@@

April 27th, 2010
6:59 pm

Well the bill does discourage frivolous claims. Say an employee targets a co-worker for investigation. He/she better know the facts or his/her butt is up on charges. That’s a good thing!

ken R

April 27th, 2010
7:00 pm

Jay,

Because our pathetic Gov’t doesn’t have the cajones to deal with illegals the Arizona Governor did.
What she did is to finally bring this problem to Washington, it will be interesting to see what, if anything our miserable politicians do.

70% of Arizonians agree with the bill, obviously for a reason. Maybe some of the liberals on this site should move to Arizona and see why.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:01 pm

RW

I don’t think it would be hard at all. Those would be the more motivated and more advanced thinkers. They went and found that information on their own. I did not send them to it.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:01 pm

Keep,

Are you now saying that lawyers only represent people whose beliefs they share? That’s not gonna look good for all those Gitmo attorneys now working in the Justice Department.

jewcowboy

April 27th, 2010
7:04 pm

Until someone shows the protections in this legislation for legal citizens of Hispanic descent from being targeted by their skin color or the language they speak, then this law is a step towards the prosecution of one group of people…

Anyone on here who posts about the Obama administration’s supposed march to tyranny and supports this law, without demonstrating how legal citizens of Hispanic descent will not be targeted, then you shall show you give not a hoot about real freedom.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:04 pm

ken–
I think all of us agree that the immigration cart is broken and something has to be done…how many of that 70% have read the bill they “support?”

Balance Our Budget

April 27th, 2010
7:04 pm

Liberals have no problem with the government checking our papers to see if we have health insurance .But they had better not check our papers to see if we are here legally.Strange isn’t it.

Cherokee

April 27th, 2010
7:05 pm

Scout please do us all a favor and stop quoting your proof texts. Jesus would call you a Pharisee.

stands for decibels

April 27th, 2010
7:07 pm

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:07 pm

By the way, that article I linked at 6:58 is from 2008. Phoenix police have had this authority to ask for citizenship information and contact ICE since May 21, 2008.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:10 pm

jewcowboy–

Have you read Milton Meyer’s “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45″? It gives some insight into this…

Scooter

April 27th, 2010
7:10 pm

josef, help me out here. Are you saying the bill is unconstitutional and that is the main problem with it?

stands for decibels

April 27th, 2010
7:11 pm

Oh, and here’s how the Rassmussen poll question was worded:

“Do you favor or oppose legislation that authorizes local police to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant?”

Not terribly surprised that 70% of people in AZ might support such a thing; it’s described in a rather bland vacuum.

As that piece I linked above pointed out, though:

To their credit, Rasmussen later asked people whether they were concerned that “efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants will also end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens”; 58 percent said they were in fact somewhat or very concerned. But that finding did not get their lede, nor was that concern expressed relative to Arizona’s law itself.

Del

April 27th, 2010
7:13 pm

SoCo@6:32,

It’s more a case of not fully utilizing the resource we have in enforcing the laws we already have. That’s unrelated to growing a government that over reaches into the private sector as this administration has been all about. An over reaching government, however, is an all together different subject.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:14 pm

Scooter–

I am no expert on constitutional law by a long, long shot…but there are some questions, as SoCo said, with the Fourt Amendment…

jt

April 27th, 2010
7:15 pm

Washington Times) Race-baiting never goes out of style. Only the races and the baiters change …

dajngo

April 27th, 2010
7:15 pm

I think Scout and his kind need to watch 9500 Liberty….Scout and his kind need to understand that people of color will be the majority in this country within our lifetime…..Scout needs to understand that this is no longer the 60s and nobody is about to put up with any of it…Scout needs to understand internet bravado is cool…but wether or not you know it…you need us more than we need you…so keep it up…jewcowboy said it best..theres a backlash coming…

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:16 pm

Yesiree, when I want unslanted polling data my first stop is 538 dot com…

/sarc

jewcowboy,

Not that any of you care, but the legislation clearly says there has to be some other lawful contact so there’s your protection.

Heck, just the other day I was confronted by the Duluth police along with a few thousand other drivers as they made us wait in long lines of idling cars to show a driver’s license. Should I be calling them NAZI’s by now?

Keep up the good fight!

April 27th, 2010
7:18 pm

RW….. working for a client when you are hired by a law firm is one thing…working directly as “of counsel” does set a different standard. Those Gitmo attorneys were retained by clients, they were not employees.

md

April 27th, 2010
7:19 pm

“lawful contact”

The way I heard that explained, is nothing changes from the way business is already done, except in cases where there is no documentation.

Such as a traffic stop. Every one of us are asked for drivers license and insurance. Out there, don’t have drivers license and insurance, you best have something. And if you are driving without a license….not too bright to begin with.

stands for decibels

April 27th, 2010
7:20 pm

RW, about 538–they did manage to miss Indiana going for Obama in 2008, so I guess they’re kinda dodgy.

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
7:23 pm

ken R said, “Jay,

Because our pathetic Gov’t doesn’t have the cajones to deal with illegals the Arizona Governor did.
What she did is to finally bring this problem to Washington, it will be interesting to see what, if anything our miserable politicians do.”

Republicans want to have their cake and eat it, too.

Wake up, ken. Arizona’s republicans (and other republicans) claim that they had to ram through SB1070 because the Democrats were dragging their feet on immigration. So, what do you say when today the AP reports that Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, threatened to withhold support (on climate change legislation) if Senate Democratic leaders push ahead first with an immigration bill.?

I say it’s the epitome of hypocrisy. The party of no once again jumps into non action.

stands for decibels

April 27th, 2010
7:24 pm

Anyway, pleasant evening to all. Be excellent to one another.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:24 pm

sfb,

I was just poking at you. I never go to 538, but HotAir references them a lot too so they must be pretty decent if they can appeal to that broad an audience.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:27 pm

Keep,

The guy is a law professor at the University of Missouri. You’re going to have to come up with something better than guilt by association if you want to convince me he’s some wild eyed racist.

md

April 27th, 2010
7:28 pm

Interesting how so many Georgians know what’s best for AZ, yet none of us live there. I read just today on these boards that majority rules – must only apply when one is in the majority.

Scooter

April 27th, 2010
7:28 pm

I just hope some of you folks here are wanting to defend our constitution and not people that are here illegally. No matter what other country they are from.

godless heathen

April 27th, 2010
7:29 pm

Jay loves having the government force you to buy a product, but calls it draconian if the government asks you for proof of citizenship.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
7:32 pm

gh,

Good point. If Obamacare goons come asking for our health insurance papers we can just tell them they don’t even know if we’re citizens and walk away.

Hillbilly Deluxe

April 27th, 2010
7:33 pm

I was once stopped in by the GSP and asked for my license, which I provided. Then he asked my passenger for their license. When I told him they didn’t have one, he was quite incredulous, “You don’t have a driver’s license. I said, “Well you don’t really need one to ride in a car, when you aren’t driving do you?” It was all downhill from there.

TaxPayer

April 27th, 2010
7:33 pm

A thread where NIF’s rants are appropriate and he’s not around to warn us.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 27th, 2010
7:36 pm

It’s a vast expansion of government power, yet most of those on the right who have claimed to be outraged by imaginary assaults on liberty by the Obama administration have been silent about this very real intrusion.

What about the liberty of people not to be kidnapped or murdered in their own homes by illegal aliens?

What about the vast government power to enforce the borders that was in place before Arizona took matters into their own hands, that the obozo Federales refuses to enforce?

Why are you always against the American people and for the scumbags, Bookman?

Just askin…

Scooter

April 27th, 2010
7:39 pm

It was all downhill from there

I hope you learned your lesson. :grin:

Energizer Bunny

April 27th, 2010
7:41 pm

What’s all the fuss about. They just stopped in for a little “pick-me-up” before they were on their way again.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:41 pm

Hillbilly

I don’t drive. I use my passport for primary identification. I have a Georgia ID card, but when asked for identification I hold it “in reserve.” The demand is always for a driver’s license. I could go and get you ten of those under ten different names in short order, but that passport is the most official document available. Yet I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had it refused and the Georgia ID accepted. It’s another example of down the rabbit hole in such matters as this under discussion…

Bud Wiser

April 27th, 2010
7:44 pm

If Obowo The Liar wasn’t so busy with his socialist agenda, and doing the job he and the feds are actuall supposed to do, and that is protect the borders of the US, then Arizona would not have to take individual action.

Only ill informed, ignorant morons who cry “racism” at every policy they do not like are objecting (did I just describe the garden variety Democrat???). Why not instead make positive suggestions to deal with a serious problem, instead of just ignoring it like GW Bush, and now Obowo, and hope it goes away….. unless you do not see it as a problem, but a political opportunity?

If you are one of those, then you truly are a fool as well as blind to reality. If it really is so nice in Arizona, then go buy a farm on the border, then give an educated opinion.

@@

April 27th, 2010
7:44 pm

‘Ya know Keep, I’m so glad you brought up The Pioneer Fund/Foundation…whatever.

They’re linked to some of left’s favorite causes.

Of all the groups that Wilson supports, one stands out as unlike all the rest: the Federation for American Immigration Reform. FAIR, as it is commonly known, is the most important organization fueling the backlash against immigration and stands to gain almost $1 million from Wilson’s largesse.

Starts with Wilson, then to Tanton and back to Wilson again.

Wilson is an avowed atheist and anti-catholic.

His support for the organization may seem surprising, considering the liberal recipients of some of his other contributions. Although most of the groups he supports have no obvious political agenda, Wilson has given generously to the ACLU Foundation ($2.3 million in 2006 alone) and the Drug Policy Alliance ($800,000 in 2007), which advocates for an end to the “War on Drugs,” improved drug-treatment and education programs, and an easing or repeal of drug laws, especially those governing marijuana. A friend, Roger Hertog, was quoted in a recent Journal of Philanthropy profile describing Wilson as “the most politically incorrect person I have ever met.”

Apparently, Wilson’s interest in FAIR is based on the view that the supposed environmental benefits of ending immigration outweigh any negatives associated with FAIR and its founder. In fact, Tanton came to the immigration restriction movement via very similar concerns about population and the environment (he was an early activist with the Sierra Club and strongly supported Planned Parenthood). In addition, FAIR has run advertisements in recent years — many of them in “progressive” publications aimed at the political left — suggesting that halting immigration is the best way to conserve the environment.

From your own Southern Poverty Law Center.

‘Ya just never know, do ‘ya?

I checked in on some conservative blogs, and they are very much aware of The Pioneer Fund/Foundation…whatever. They don’t have much use for ‘em.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
7:46 pm

In case any of you are unaware, both Cobb County and Gwinnett County already have a similar ordinance/policy in place by which thousands of illegals have been deported. I know. because my former tenant was one of them.

“And yes I use this blog as a teaching tool and as they want to know more”

Geez, josef, nothing like putting a burden like that on us…..

Tales from the Dark Side of the Moon

April 27th, 2010
7:47 pm

On our high school’s “senior night”, we were out gathering signs and hauling them back to the high school for planting in the front lawn when we were pulled over by one of the local cops. The first thing he asked was, “Have you boys been drinking?” I responded with, “Why Ossifer, it’s against the law to drink and drive,” while grinning profusely from ear to ear just to make sure it was not taken the wrong way. Fortunately, it didn’t go down hill from there. Of course, it did not hurt to know the cop either.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
7:47 pm

And for tonight’s musical kickoff, what song could be more apropos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9byfevggn0

Del

April 27th, 2010
7:48 pm

Dajingo@7:15pm,

People of color are certainly alright. I’ve served and fought along with many, something I doubt you’ve ever done. If your talking about folks of any color who see themselves as American citizens, I’m on board with that. If you see “people of color” as being people of color, first and foremost and Americans last, than I’m not on board. If you are of that later group than I can tell you that you and your kind just don’t pack gear to go up against what you’ve referred to as “our kind”.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
7:49 pm

““Why Ossifer, it’s against the law to drink and drive,” while grinning profusely from ear to ear just to make sure it was not taken the wrong way.”

Darkside–Little piece of advice for you: Don’t try that gambit in Jersey.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
7:59 pm

BRNO

“Geez, josef, nothing like putting a burden like that on us…..”

Little pitchers have big ears…

Help me out here…are ye who posted the Viking cats doing “Immigrant Song” ? I can’t find it now and I thought it, too, might be appropriate… :-)

Soothsayer

April 27th, 2010
8:02 pm

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:06 pm

“Help me out here…are ye who posted the Viking cats doing “Immigrant Song” ? I can’t find it now and I thought it, too, might be appropriate…”

Not me, I generally don’t go for parody videos. Excellent thematic selection, however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCvMKcNJCAY

Midori

April 27th, 2010
8:06 pm

anyone here play Mafia Wars on Facebook?

Midori

April 27th, 2010
8:08 pm

Only ill informed, ignorant morons who cry “racism” at every policy they do not like….

Gee.

Sorta like YOU, Bud???

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:09 pm

josef:

RW’s Viking Kitties.

I will never misplace them again.

It’s just a little pond, josef.

Hillbilly Deluxe

April 27th, 2010
8:11 pm

Scooter @ 7:39

Well, I wound up getting a ticket and a fine but let’s just say I got my money’s worth. ;-)

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:12 pm

“Apparently, Wilson’s interest in FAIR is based on the view that the supposed environmental benefits of ending immigration outweigh any negatives associated with FAIR and its founder.”

I’d like to put attention back on the link that Scout provided at 5:51. It’s a bit long, but lot of food for thought–literally since the presenter uses jars of gumballs to visualize demonstrate how futile our immigration policy is in terms of easing world suffering in any way. I strongly suggest everyone take a look if you already haven’t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:13 pm

Bruno:

Not me, I generally don’t go for parody videos.

Too bad for you ’cause we women LOVE RW’s “Viking Kitties”.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:14 pm

dajngo:

These fit you perfectly …………….

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

“For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:15 pm

“Well, I wound up getting a ticket and a fine but let’s just say I got my money’s worth.”

I was with a guy once who mouthed off to a cop–he got the stick and a pair of bracelets for his troubles.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:16 pm

“Too bad for you ’cause we women LOVE RW’s “Viking Kitties”.

So that’s where I’m going wrong……

Right about now, any type of kitty would be acceptable for me.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:18 pm

@@
at 8:09

THANK YOU!!!! I love that video… ISH

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:22 pm

“You can imagine if you are an Hispanic American in Arizona, your great grandparents may have been there before Arizona was even a state, but now suddenly if you don’t have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re gonna be harassed,” Obama said. “That’s something that could potentially happen. That’s not the right way to go.”

What DRIVEL from the Chief Law Enforcement officer of the United States!

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:24 pm

I will say that I’ve gotten a lot of mileage with the ladies due to my rabbit, Sweetie. Especially the latina ladies. Makes ‘em think I’ve got a soft side.

joan

April 27th, 2010
8:25 pm

What is a border for if not to be a boundary? If invaders breach your borders you should just shoot them. The federal law requires they carry papers, and Arizona isn’t any more draconian than that. The scary thing about this is that Arizona wants to enforce the law–something the feds don’t have the guts to do. The feds would rather legalize these low/no income people so them can become Dem voters and keep their sorry butts in Congress/whitehouse.

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:26 pm

THANK YOU!!!! I love that video…

Well of course you do, josef. You get a Mother’s Day card every year.

(IWH)

Ace

April 27th, 2010
8:26 pm

If I was a Mexican, I would call in sick on May 5th.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:27 pm

Breaking News !

Headline: “Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told a Senate hearing Tuesday that unmanned aerial drones will soon fly through Texas skies!”

Oh, the horror ………. what rights are being violated watching people as they cross the border. Call out the ACLU !!!

joan

April 27th, 2010
8:28 pm

Just makes me want to move to Arizona.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:29 pm

RW

Well…the video was originally from you–would you think me hyperventillating if I showed it to my kids? :-)

BRUNO

Speaking of our song “A Family Affair” and tonight’s thread…wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall at the McCain house tonight? :-)

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:29 pm

Bruno:

You’re 8:24 is tempting, but I ain’ta gonna touch it.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 27th, 2010
8:31 pm

George Will and I think at a level considerably higher than Bookman does, just sayin…

It is passing strange for federal officials, including the president, to accuse Arizona of irresponsibility while the federal government is refusing to fulfill its responsibility to control the nation’s borders.

Yes it tis.

Hillbilly Deluxe

April 27th, 2010
8:32 pm

Bruno @ 8:12

I saw that once, quite a while back. It’s very interesting.

Finn McCool

April 27th, 2010
8:32 pm

It’s not about being lazy, it’s about what you think your time is worth. I wouldn’t work an hour for anyone paying below $XX an hour WITH benefits.

No benefits? My price would go up to $XX an hour.

As long as there are employers who insist on paying a non-living wage with zero benefits, you will have immigrants and illegals lining up to take those jobs. And that, my friends, is why this problem will never go away. No one is going to pay anyone more than $15 an hour to clean out their garage or mow their grass.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:33 pm

What’s the “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” to surveill these people walking over the border? Many could be legals or American citizens just going for a walk.

This is discrimination? Racist! Are we “droning Canada” ? Where will this stop?

Obama is guilty of violation border crossers rights ! Stop this “misguided” approach now before it’s too late !!!

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:34 pm

joan

Take I-20 west… :-)

BRUNO
You DO have a soft side and you speak Spanish…what more besides a green card could she ask for? :-)

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:35 pm

DANG! They make $15.00 an hour!!?!!

Geez! I’m poor even when I am getting paid.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:35 pm

Finn @ 8:32

And that’s it in a nutshell…

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
8:36 pm

Del @ 7:13

We have resources that are being over-utilized when it comes to immigration. We’re sending CBP Officers to the Southern Border left and right to help out there. Border Patrol is using all kinds of technology to augment the Agents they have on the ground. Nothing short of shutting down any and all crossing into our borders will have any better effect on stemming the flow of illegal immigrants to this country than if ALL employers quit hiring them.

A stray animal will not stay around your house if you don’t feed it. If you begin to feed it, it will never leave because it knows where it can get a source of food without having to do an exhaustive and/or dangerous search for it.

Unless we deputized all eligible citizens to become ICE Agents, ICE will not have the manpower necessary to round up all illegals and arrange for deportation.

Working from inside the government to stem the flow of illegal aliens into this country, I can tell you that the government is not the solution to the problem. The business community has far more power than any/all government agencies. When will the business community stand up and say “Enough is enough!!”?

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
8:36 pm

Why are the Viking Kitties being called a parody video? It’s the real song.

josef,

Only if you don’t editorialize about the name of the song and how you thinks it makes the Arizonans nazis.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:42 pm

“Why are the Viking Kitties being called a parody video? It’s the real song.”

I used the word “parody” to describe the video only because I couldn’t think of any other succinct way to refer to the pairing of a humorous video with a non-humorous song. I was only referring to the video, not the song itself.

“what more besides a green card could she ask for? ”

Green paper with former President’s pictures on them to fund their plastic surgeries.

Ace

April 27th, 2010
8:43 pm

Why not just give american employers a period of time to verify its employees. Let them check the papers, close em for a week if they have a illegal worker. All you “I’ll show my papers that work all the time” folks can show your papers. Come back in a week for a recheck, find another close em’ down 2 weeks. Why make the taxpayers do the leg work?

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:44 pm

Southern Comfort :

Excellent points but that is only one prong of a four prong effort that MUST be enforced:

1) Seal the Border ………. SEAL IT !

2) Make it so costly/prohibitive for businesses that they just can’t afford to “play the game”.

3) Take away all economic governmental incentives (excluding temporary emergency care).

4) Conduct MAJOR ongoing enforcement efforts to return illegals to their country of origin.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
8:45 pm

Green paper with former President’s pictures on them to fund their plastic surgeries

Bruno, you must have seen some of the people that come off flights from Central and South America.

kayaker 71

April 27th, 2010
8:45 pm

“Draconian” indeed!!! This is the same law that is in the Federal wordage, the same law that is already on the books in most states in this Republic. Arizona is just enforcing it. When did it become “draconian” to enforce laws that the Federal government and the states have passed. It is only “draconian” when it applies to those who would cross our borders illegally. This is not illegal immigration, this is invasion. And the border states are fed up!! Bozo and his gang don’t have the real balls to protect our country against invasion from another sovereign country and Bookman is moaning about “draconian” measures. Someone should tell him that the only thing about this whole mess is that the Congress of the US and the Presidents , Bush, Clinton and Bozo didn’t enforce our laws. They let us down. Now it has gone so far as to become almost too big to fix. And we have the politicians to blame for not doing their jobs.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:47 pm

RW
I keep telling you and you don’t seem to want to believe me on this…I do not editorialize in the classroom…that’s THEIR job, not mine…and when did I call Arizonans nazis? I simply made the point HERE not there that if we are not careful we will find ourselves sliding down that slope…

Mick

April 27th, 2010
8:47 pm

The bottom line is that the federal gov’t is derelict in its duty to protect our borders. As a nation of laws no one group of people has the right to enter this country illegally. We need to get out of all our current wars and seal our borders now before its too late. It’s a national security issue and both the repubs and dems have failed miserably.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
8:48 pm

“2) Make it so costly/prohibitive for businesses that they just can’t afford to “play the game”.

Am I the only one who flashes to this video whenever Scout puffs up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0EYtljBuwY

md

April 27th, 2010
8:49 pm

Funny that I have a drivers license and a passport card that must be shown when asked, yet many here somehow think it should not apply to those here illegally. Isn’t that a bit backward?

hryder

April 27th, 2010
8:50 pm

Please, Hispanic is a language group, not a racial group. There are born and bred citizens of Spain, Mexico, and most other predominantly Spanish language speaking countries that are black(negroid), white(caucasian), and yellow(mongoloid). Another point after being a resident of Douglas, Arizona and cities in New Mexico for several years, and visiting annually for several months since being a state citizen elsewhere, the vast majority of my contacts/friends who are born or naturalized U.S. citizens and registered voters are opposed to any type of amnesty for illegal aliens. Those who personally or whose family followed all the legal directives to become a citizen are especially adamant regarding this point. Incidentally, Douglas’s major border crossing appears very similar to the Berlin Wall except the barrier is a very high cyclone fence with a ditch on one side.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:52 pm

kayaker 71 and Mick: Good words !

Bruno: Does this fit you?

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

Hillbilly Deluxe

April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm

The crossing at Douglas, AZ is to keep people out; the Berlin Wall was to keep people in. That’s a large difference.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm

hryder :

Careful ……… these liberals on here really get hot about your type of logic.

Mick

April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm

**Funny that I have a drivers license and a passport card that must be shown when asked,**

Also, I am a citizen born and raised here and have been required to have my fingerprints on file for certain employment assignments.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
8:54 pm

SoCo
You and I may appear to be on different sides of this issue, but I think we are in agreement that the problem is not the need of “new” laws, but the enforcement of the ones already there (and they are within keeping of those of a civilized state) and that our federal government has simply not been willing to allocate the resources to those arms of the state charged with the enforcement of those laws…

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
8:55 pm

Scout

#1) Not gonna happen. The business community would never allow it to happen.
CBP “Twin Goals” – Anti-Terrorism and Facilitating Legitimate Trade and Travel
“For the first time in our nation’s history, one agency has the lone responsibility of protecting our borders. As the single, unified border agency, CBP’s mission is vitally important to the protection of America and the American people. CBP’s priority mission is preventing terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, while also facilitating the flow of legitimate trade and travel,” continued Commissioner Bonner.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/about/mission/cbp.xml

#2) Pro-business politicians will not allow that to happen.

#3) Businesses who fund those mentioned in #2 will not let that happen.

#4) Fiscally conservative citizens & politicians will not allow that to happen because it would cost Billions to do that.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
8:55 pm

josef,

I don’t doubt you about the classroom, but when you know you have students reading here and you come in with such a strident and frankly wrongheaded opinion about the law you’re doing the same thing.

There are protections in the law and the law doesn’t do much if anything that isn’t already on the books at the federal level. The feds just refuse to enforce the laws that exist now. I also agree with SoCo that the emphasis should be on employers which is also well covered in the Arizona law.

Del

April 27th, 2010
8:56 pm

Back to the original topic with one last comment and then I have some work to do before taps. If I faced the life threatening issues to my family and to a much lesser extent the property trespass/ defilement that those ranchers on our Mexican border are facing then I would utilize so called draconian measures as well. Only my draconian measures would exceed far beyond the recent Arizona legislation passed and beyond the imaginations of many on this blog. Hopefully, this action by the state of Arizona will be a wake up call to all Americans that this invasion of illegal’s from our Southern border is a non-trivial issue.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:57 pm

josef:

……….. and I would add that when our government arbitrarily abdicates is authority to enforce the law in one area ……….. it has lost its moral authority to enforce it in any area ………. also known as “equal protection under the law.”

@@

April 27th, 2010
8:57 pm

Let’s get something straight. The failure to protect America’s southern border has been a bipartisan effort. Democrats want more illegal immigrants in the country because they are a potential source of votes they hope will contribute to a permanent Democratic majority. Republicans and their donors want more illegal immigrants in America because they are a source of cheap labor. Once you understand this, you can ignore much of the talk about “human rights.”

If a state, or nation, has laws it will not enforce for political reasons, it mocks both the law and politics, to say nothing of the cultural order. If the language of laws has no meaning other than what lawmakers assign to them after a law is enacted, it is proof that we have arrived in a kind of legal “Wonderland” in which Alice is told by Humpty Dumpty, “When I use a word … it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” To which Alice responds, “The question is … whether you can make words mean so many different things.” Politicians constantly try.–Cal Thomas

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:58 pm

Del:

Fix bayonets !

Scout

April 27th, 2010
8:59 pm

@@

Which is why Americans have lost faith in their government ……….. and that does not bode well for the future. Congress is viewed with suspicion and even contempt.

getalife

April 27th, 2010
9:00 pm

Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.

Bad karma.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:02 pm

getalife:

Drivel not Debate.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:02 pm

Mick @ 8:47

Precisely.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:04 pm

pusillanimous petty politicians

[...] A few conservative voices criticize Arizona law – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) the state of Arizona are Hispanics, and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they’re walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they’re walking their child to school, and they’re an American citizen or a [...]

waz up arizona?

April 27th, 2010
9:05 pm

scared some mexicans are going to steal back the state that you stole from the mexicans

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
9:06 pm

“May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

Scout–I registered with the Selective Service at 18, but was never called. Make of that what you will…….Hopefully you are self-honest enough to recognize that you are on the over-zealous side at times, e.g. your scheme by which defense attorneys should simultaneously be agents of the state. I wouldn’t be surprised if you opposed habeus corpus as well in your black-and-white world of good and evil.

Del

April 27th, 2010
9:07 pm

SoCo@8:36pm,
I certainly agree with going after employers who employ illegal’s out of greed for some survival for others. I don’t agree with your assertion that we have used up our resource. I’m not talking about only man power, I’m talking about about refusal to enforce law because of PC vote pandering which is treason in my opinion.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm

Bruno :

The real world vs. classroom philosophy is always difficult for some to understand. You can be excused for that.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm

My problem is that people try to paint the “illegal immigrant/alien” problem as being one that only comes from the southern border. No one wants to discuss people who enter the U.S. on a valid visa and never leave. Not to mention those who come from countries that don’t require a visa and never leave. A little known “illegal immigrant” is one that enters as a “tourist” and accepts employment while here. Even if that person leaves before their time alloted is up, they’re an “illegal immigrant” in the eyes of the law.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm

“Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.”

So, I guess in your Lib Dreamworld:

(1) Only conservatives are bigoted.

(2) Your good karma as a Lib will protect you from ill treatment if and when minority rule becomes the norm.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:11 pm

RW
“strident and wrongheaded” are your opinions…someone else may disagree or, more than likely, be totally disinterested…that is the nature of this forum and, should any of the little b*ggers be tuning in (and if so, you little miscreants, why aren’t you in bed and have you done your homework?) they are well aware of that…the reason I use this as a resource is to teach them what freedom of speech and expression are in practice–not just words on a page to be memorized for bubble in on the CRCT…

And I don’t “know” I have students reading here…I don’t “send” them to this blog. I don’t even name it. And if any of them DO come here, they’ve been discreet in not saying so! :-)

Scout @ 8:57
I would agree with that…

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:11 pm

Bruno:

P.S. If you are 37 or under they will still take you ……………….. :o )

@@

April 27th, 2010
9:12 pm

Scout:

You’d be surprised at how many times friends of mine have voted incorrectly on a ballot referendum. They’ll ask how I voted, and I’ll tell ‘em. They’ll say “YOU VOTED FOR THAT?”

I’ll say “No, YOU voted for that.”

It’s all in the way they word ‘em. It verges on criminality.

Del

April 27th, 2010
9:13 pm

Enter your comments here

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
9:14 pm

“The real world vs. classroom philosophy is always difficult for some to understand. You can be excused for that.”

Sorry, pal, I live in the same real world you do. To be honest, I find your brand of religiously driven self-righteousness to be a liability, not an asset.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:14 pm

@@ I hear you …………. and you are correct.

getalife

April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm

Yeah, w committed treason and beck says he was a progressive.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm

Del

I don’t see refusal to enforce law from where I sit. I see people turned around every day because they’ve either violated immigration laws in the past, or are coming to violate laws in the present.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm

Bruno:

You might live in it ………. but I doubt you ever risked you life in it year after year. Big difference.

“For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown

Don’t feel too bad. I played sandlot football but I never played in the NFL. Big difference.

mike

April 27th, 2010
9:17 pm

“Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.”

LOL. Nice to see that some things never change. Nobody tell getalife what is happening on planet Earth. I want it to be a surprise in Nov. LOL

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:19 pm

SoCo

As you can imagine, this was much the topic in the teacher’s lounge. I pretty much (believe it or not) just sat back and listened. One of my colleagues is from Panama. Her comment was, “well, there’s progress. I never thought I’d live to see the day my black skin would protect me in profiling!” She says that whenever her husband is stopped for driving while black, she’s told by him, “keep your mouth shut” since she has a light Spanish accent! :-)

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
9:23 pm

josef

She’d definitely have to be quiet during a traffic stop in AZ now. LOL!!!

getalife

April 27th, 2010
9:25 pm

leg humper,

Yeah, in Nov. there will be another choice of two corrupt parties.

Americans will have to decide which one is less evil .

But will still vote for evil.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
9:26 pm

josef,

5th grade may be just under the demographic, but I think we’ve lost the surfing school kid crowd since Glee is on.

As for those being my opinions, yes they are, but they’re much more grounded in the facts written in the law than the hyperbolic opinions that have been coming from your side since the topic was posted.

Anyway, I enjoyed the sparring. Have a good night everyone.

JGrice

April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm

Im glad someone finaly took action. AZ is doing the right thing IMO, A lot of people see this as see a Mexican and they are automaticaly an illegal and that isnt the case.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm

SoCo
Have another colleague who’s from the US Virgin Islands. She is BLACK and I do mean midnight so. She has a strong Caribbean accent. She says she had to get a US passport just to travel about here on the mainland since her other documents were “questionable” given her skin color and voice tone. And talk about being in a snit over this latest one, the Puerto Ricans are in a high dither! :-)

Del

April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm

SoCo,

I’m not sure where you sit professionally. I do think you are one of the most level headed posters on this blog. I’m talking about the Dept. of Homeland Security, discontinuing the illegal employer raids. I’m talking about the administration ignoring the Southern Border problem. Napalitano, today said “the Mexican border is as secure as its ever been”. I’m talking about sanctuary cities. I’m talking about politicians of both stripes vote pandering. I’m talking about an American city being described as the “kidnapping capitol of the world. I’m talking about an American citizen being murdered on his ranch. I’m talking about illegal drugs being run into this country. Please don’t try and tell me that the government is doing the best it can.

md

April 27th, 2010
9:32 pm

SoCo,

This thread probably equates more to southern border illegals due to the topic, but I for one include ALL when I speak of illegals. They all equally broke the law. After watching the gumball video, it ticked me off even more knowing how many are denied a chance to come here when others are jumping in front of the line. But this country seems to have a tendency to reward for bad choices – so just par for the course.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
9:32 pm

“Don’t feel too bad. I played sandlot football but I never played in the NFL. Big difference.”

I don’t feel badly, because I never had aspirations to be in the military (or the NFL). In my worldview, people can fulfill many different roles and still be of great service to society. Military/police is just one of those roles. It sounds like in your world it’s the only role for which you have any respect. Too bad. I’ve dedicated my life to healing people instead, and am quite satisfied with my choice.

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:35 pm

RW
Ypu’re right on the demographic!

And, BTW, what “side” am I on? :-)

Enjoyed the sparring and exchange of hyperbole with you, too…check under the bed for illegals from south of the Rio Grande and I’ll check under mine for Carpetbaggers from north of the Mason-Dixon…I’ll trade you one of mine for ten of yours any day of the week… :-)

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
9:46 pm

No matter if they are illegal immigrants, I still love the Viking kitties. They were always my favorites. I am forever indebted to RW for that introduction. It was love at first sight.

Bruno, rabbits are cute as can be but they will never be the Viking bunnies! Sorry about that..

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
9:47 pm

Scout said, ““For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown”

Scout, I am a Viet Nam era veteran, too. And I have had, friends, colleagues and business associates who were in Viet Nam during the war. Not all of them thought they were fighting for freedom. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember anyone ever mentioning that word. What I do remember was a sign that one the fellows in my flight (I was in USAFSS) posted on his door. It read We are the unwilling, asked to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful

josef nix

April 27th, 2010
9:53 pm

Time to call it quits for the evening…g’night all…

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
9:53 pm

josef

LOL!!

Del

I didn’t say the government doesn’t have room for improvement. However, to say that the people who put boots on the ground everyday are not doing their best is akin to spitting in the face of those who do the job in my book. I’ve been with CBP for close to 3 years now, so I may have a differing perspective from most here on the blog. There is a difference in the government who sits in DC and makes the decisions vs. the government that’s boots in the sand with small teams covering vast areas along the Southern border.

I’ll probably get flak for this, but when you’re talking about quitting the raids and stuff, it’s not the agents or officers locally making that decision. I’d be more inclined to say that there’s some deep-pocketed political donor who “suggests” to the donoree that the raids ease up so production doesn’t have to slow down or stop for lack of workers. At the same time, with the rise of gangs like MS-13 and such, would you rather ICE spend time tracking down Rosetta and her 3 kids or those5 MS-13 members who are trafficking coke and killing everything in site?

And no offense to the rancher, because he was being human and helping out another human being, but if I lived along the border, I would not put out one ounce of water or food no matter what. It may not be the most humanely position, but I see it like feeding stray animals. People are going to go and do what is easiest to do. If I were on the border, and you cross on my land without prior authorization, you’d better flash a badge or have 4.2 speed, because I wouldn’t move around without some serious heat within arm’s reach.

md

I’ve had Brazilians brag how they got their “papers” by marrying a US citizen after being here for years illegally. We catch people of all nationalities and ages coming here to find work with 95% of them having the proper and legal documents to enter this country. I’m like you, illegal means just that, illegal!!

sorry about the long post.

Del

April 27th, 2010
9:54 pm

md,

My wife who is ethnic Chinese came to this country 12 years ago as an I.T professional. We’ve been married just over ten years and have a young daughter. My wife applied for green card status for her sister. The application is in its fourth year and will take another six years before her sister can interview with immigration services and be granted a “Green Card” That’s typical of the legal immigration process. BTW…my wife is a naturalized citizen and it took her seven years. The legal immigration process was designed to control immigration in the best interest of the country and those who truly want to become Americans. What we have today is an out of control mess that our government allows due to political correctness and vote pandering. They do this with complete disregard for the security of this country, while scape goating the state of Arizona for trying to protect its citizens.

MAC

April 27th, 2010
9:58 pm

Arizona residents pay the same taxes as everyone else in the U.S. but are paying an undue burden for the gross dereliction of the U.S. govt to protect its citizens from illegal immigration that is overwhelming its schools, hospitals, social services and law enforcement. This amounts to an undeclared and illegal tax on all Arizona citizens. The state has a right and an obligation to do whatever is necessary to protect its citizens and mitigate the burden. The federal govt has abdicated its responsibility, for what is largely political reasons.

I support the citizens of Arizona 100% until the Feds seal the border.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
10:02 pm

MAC

How can the border be sealed? Are you willing to pay for it?

Del

April 27th, 2010
10:03 pm

SoCo,

I’ll just have to leave you with this and then you can have the last word. First off don’t tell me about “boots on the ground” been there done that and was fortunate to come back. Those who put their boots on the ground I have the deepest respect for. Those who are charged with putting those boots on the ground in my opinion are guilty of high treason as it pertains to Southern border security. I’ve been clear on my opinion all evening long, so I’ll thank you for the exchange and wish you a good night.

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
10:03 pm

MAC, do you support the citizens of Arizona who happen to have brown faces?

Dusty

April 27th, 2010
10:04 pm

Theyeshaveit,

Fighting for the ungrateful, huh? How do you feel about the people who frequently make comments about our useless war in Iraq or Afghanistan while our troops are still there fighting? More ungrateful?

I hope we never make out fighters feel the loss of support that happened with Viet Nam. Seems to me those who served in the military never forget. Some Americans seem to forget about the people who are laying their lives on the line for this country.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm

Bruno:

1) That’s great ……… as I have needed your type of services more than once in the line of duty. You should be proud. Just remember – your right to do that was given to you throughout history by the soldier.

2) “Sorry, pal, I live in the same real world you do. To be honest, I find your brand of religiously driven self-righteousness to be a liability, not an asset.”

You can say that but as Davy Crockett used to say, “Make sure you are right and then go straight ahead.”

And may I quote Patton, “A bad battle plan executed with extreme violence is better than no plan.”

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!

April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm

Just because they’re on the right, doesn’t make them right. You go to a foreign country and you have to show a passport or ID, there’s NO way around it. What’s the difference? ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL, ship them home and let Mexico or any other third world country foot the bill.

Way to go AZ.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm

Del @ 9:54

I agree with your assessment of the process, but I think it’s more of our “entitlement” thinking as US citizens. You’d be amazed at what we have to deal with and take from fellow citizens who “feel” they have the right to do or say whatever they like. It would be great for someone with balls to come along and say F*@k It, rules are the rules and no exceptions!!! I’d give that person a vote if I knew they’d stick to their words.

Southern Comfort

April 27th, 2010
10:07 pm

Time for me to call it a night as well… Enjoyed the dialogue.

Good night all.

casual observer

April 27th, 2010
10:08 pm

Weasel Boy Bookman is sure to side with the fringe in all arguments. As this administration has demonstrated , it’s not the government of the people anymore. It’s the government of fringe Wacko’s like Weasel Boy.

md

April 27th, 2010
10:09 pm

“How can the border be sealed? Are you willing to pay for it?”

I remember a hc argument that said we are paying for it one way or the other due to cost of services. Since the hc bill does not technically cover illegals, we are still paying. So by that logic, the money used to seal the border will be gained by less cost of services.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:09 pm

Theyeshavit:

Two points:

1) “Fighting” is thrown around very loosely. An Air Traffic controller in Saigon is “serving” and may get wounded in a rocket attack but he is not “fighting”. Grunts fight.

2) This is just one reason why I “fought: (India Company, 3rd Bn., 4th Marines) ……………

Vietnam Magazine (2010)

DECORATED NVA OFFICER CONVICTED OF SUBVERSION

“In late December, a 60 year-old former lieutenant colonel and proponent of democratic reforms in Vietnam, Tran Anh Kim, was convicted of subversion and sentenced to five years in prison. According to press reports, Kim’s trial was the first of a series of upcoming prosecutions of pro-democracy and human-rights activists. Kim, who faced a potential death sentence, stood accused of joining an organization promoting multiparty democracy, of posting pro-democracy articles on the Internet and being a member of an outlawed party.”

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
10:10 pm

Dusty, there are wars and then there are wars. BTW, when I was in USAF Security Service, I would wear my uniform to qualify for the military stand-by price we had back then. There were a few airports that I came into where I was greeted by any number of epithets for wearing the uniform. BTW, I have a cousin who served in Afghanistan. How about you? Have you done military service?

MAC

April 27th, 2010
10:13 pm

All citizens of all colors are being burdened by this ongoing invasion so yes I support brown faces in Arizona and all other citizens there.

Yes, I support paying for sealing the border. Perhaps some of the wasted and unspent stimulus should be redirected there.

Btw, I am a former resident of Arizona, and if you are not, then you don’t know WTF you are talking about if you don’t think the gross unenforcement of immigration law is not a crisis there. CA, NM and TX too for that matter.

The old straw man of the poor migrant worker minding his/her own business and doing jobs no American will do is a fallacy. The violence and drugs spilling over the borders has increased exponentially.

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
10:16 pm

MAC, one would hope that we do as much in Arizona to stop the flow of illegal drugs across the border as we do with people. If Americans were not buying, the cartels would not be selling.

RW-(the original)

April 27th, 2010
10:21 pm

josef,

On this one the “side” you’re on is clearly the moonbat side. (ISH)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Need to drop this off for the late night/early morning crew. Shortly after midnight tonight it’ll be the Full Pink Moon. Enjoy!

Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned

April 27th, 2010
10:23 pm

Scout sounds so lonely. No wars to fight. No enemies to kill. So lonely.

LOLO

April 27th, 2010
10:24 pm

There is a reason each country has borders with others; to maintain national identity and for protection of her citizens, of both physical and property. When will people wise up that open borders and blanket amnesty deteriorate the valued traditions of strengthening the U.S. via controlled immigration and assimilation of some of the best the world has to offer, no matter the country or ethnicity?
Arizona is simply trying to stop violent take overs from drug cartels and the non-violent displacement of the American worker by the illegals that have the easiest access to the U.S, primarily Mexican and Central Americans. By allowing them to enter unchecked and eventually granting blanket amnesty we are putting the future of the U.S. at risk by “disenfranchising” those from other parts of the world that wish to come legally and contribute to betterment of the country rather than sending most of their earnings back across the border.
There is nothing xenophobic about the Arizona law, rather it is grounded in the fundamentals of ensuring American greatness and security and ensuring fairness for others wishing to faithfully pursue their own American dream.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:26 pm

theyeshaveit:

1) “There’s the infantry and then there’s everybody else.” Author Unknown

2) “I have the sense from time to time that I am not alone, and I suspect that despite the limited understanding we have of events in distant places, there will always be those among us who have the gleam of the quest in their eyes. They are people of every sex and station and they yearn to be challenged to a cause. They will always be looking for that wrong to right, that ill to cure, that song to sing; and there will always be those who will go to arms in aid of the helpless and the downtrodden. Ignoring the political issues of the moment, these people will champion the weak and the poor in the face of evil and tyranny. And no matter what the outcome, in their romantic hearts they will always keep the secret, if secret it must be, that they are better men for having held the lamp beside the golden door”. David Donovan “Once a Warrior King”

3) “The rifleman fights without promise of either reward or relief. Behind every river there’s another hill, and behind that hill, another river. After weeks or months on the line only a wound can offer him the comfort of safety, shelter, and a bed. Those who are left to fight, fight on, evading death but knowing that with each day of evasion they have exhausted one more chance for survival. Sooner or later, unless victory comes, this chase must end on the litter or in the grave.” General of the Army
Omar N. Bradley

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:27 pm

Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned :

LOL !

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
10:29 pm

“Just remember – your right to do that was given to you throughout history by the soldier.”

I don’t think it’s quite that simple, Scout. The bottom line is that military and security are only ONE of the foundational blocks that make up a successful society. I’m not sure why you can’t recognize that.

“You can say that but as Davy Crockett used to say, “Make sure you are right and then go straight ahead.”

The problem being with the “making sure you are right” part. Self-assessment is one of the most unreliable tools available to us. And the fact is that our enemies are just as convinced of their moral superiority as we are. As such, I don’t place a whole lot of value on moral certainty.

Just being honest with you, Scout. I’m glad you’re proud of your choices in life. That doesn’t excuse you from being respectful of others’ choices/roles, however.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
10:31 pm

“Bruno, rabbits are cute as can be but they will never be the Viking bunnies! Sorry about that..”

Dusty, @@–I’m making a Norse outfit for her as we speak. Based on y’all’s reactions, I should be in like Flynn after that.

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
10:32 pm

LOLO, if it’s the cartel folks that Arizonans are concerned, they should go after them. At the same time, we need to stop the demand part of supply and demand here by getting Americans off of drugs. The illegal alien population is not the direct equivalent of the drug cartel people. And certainly, the Americans of color in Arizona should not be targeted, but under this illegal law (The Supreme Court will likely knock it down)they will.

By the way, just curious, what would a borderless country look like?

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:36 pm

Bruno:

But you misinterpret. I am respectful more than you know.

And there are many building blocks ………. but there is evil in the world and without the soldier nothing can be built …………. Valley Forge ensured the founding of this country. Take that away and nothing else had a chance.

IT IS THE SOLDIER

It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.
It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.
It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Author Unknown

Illegal Means You're Illegal Which Is Not Legal

April 27th, 2010
10:37 pm

Beef up the borders, amend the constitution to DISALLOW citizenship for persons born on American soil without an American parent, establish workable quotas for migrant\seasonal workers, pass legislation mandating English as the official language, enact a fair tax, and VOILA, Americans take back America and legal immigrant Mexicans can vie for the jobs on a need basis.

As for the illegals already here? Slap them with a steep fine and give them ten years to pay it off. God knows the country needs the money, and maybe we can recoup some of the billions of dollars that went to Mexico instead of Washington.

Scout

April 27th, 2010
10:40 pm

Well, even I can only take so much from you libs. in one day. I’m outta here. See you tomorrow:

“Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!”

theyeshaveit

April 27th, 2010
10:41 pm

Scout, we’ll talk another day. Goodnight.

Bruno

April 27th, 2010
10:44 pm

“But you misinterpret. I am respectful more than you know.”

And in return, if you have followed my blogs at all, I am grateful for our strong military and am glad that the US is the world’s policeman and not someone else.

At the same time, there is a reason why our military remains under civilian control and why safeguards like Miranda rights need to be in place. My concern is the disrespect you have consistently shown toward these necessary protections.

LOLO

April 27th, 2010
10:47 pm

theyshaveit,

First, the drug violence is only half of my point for greater enforcement. As I stated, job displacement, tax burdens for public services, and inequality in future citizenship and visa adjudication are other issues.
Secondly, I am not sure the Supreme Court will knock this down for the reason that undocumented non-citizens do not have the rights afforded to legal visitors and citizens. As others have stated, how is this any different than law enforcement asking you for identification because you chose to take an airline as transportation? You must present ID before boarding and present a passport when traveling overseas. In Arizona, if someone is involved in an activity that activates law enforcement such as being pulled dover for speeding, then legal documentation must be shown to operate that vehicle, so why not also prove legal status in the county?
As for what a borderless country would look like, try the Congo (DPRC) where various ethnic groups continually war with each other even though they are supposed to be “assimilated” as Congolese. The borders of this country as well as its name have changed many times over years are its borden lines are redrawn based on among other things, tribal movements and immigration (refugees?) from neighboring nations.
Also, check out Kashmir in India/Pakistan. That worked out real well huh?

vuduchld

April 27th, 2010
11:10 pm

The AZ bill should require EVERY citizen who lives or comes into the state to be checked – NO EXCEPTIONS, that way EVERYONE is subject to the law. Now me, I’m stearing way clear of that state, why should I give my dollars to a state that clearly don’t want me. I’m an American so when AZ passed this law it told me that I wasn’t wanted. Heck, I’m African-american, they’ll stop me because those folks love racial profiling, that is why this law should apply to EVERYONE!!

It’s time for these monkeys to put up or shut up. If you do one you have to do EVERYONE, even the stoopid gubner who signed the bill should not be immune from this law. TIME TO SHOW YOUR PAPERS PEOPLE!!

dw

April 27th, 2010
11:44 pm

I’m with Jay. Let the U.S. get swallowed up by illegals so that we can become that 3rd world country that Jay and lib minions would like to occur.
I’m really not for hassling legal people over and over based on race, but I’m definitely for kicking out illegals if found to be illegal.

ken

April 28th, 2010
12:27 am

If people from Alabama were crossing into Georgia, you would surely want it stopped !!!

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
4:44 am

wow … add another conservative voice to your list, Jay … none other than former Bush speechwriter, Michael Gerson:

“But chaos at the border is not an argument for states to take control of American immigration policy — an authority that Arizona has seized in order to abuse.

American states have broad powers. But they are not permitted their own foreign or immigration policy. One reason is that immigration law concerns not only the treatment of illegal immigrants but also the proper treatment of American citizens. And here the Arizona law fails badly.

-snip-

“The government of Arizona, it turns out, has been ambushed by its own legislature. If this vague law is applied vigorously, the state will be regularly sued by citizens who are wrongfully stopped. But if the law is not applied vigorously enough, it contains a provision allowing citizens to sue any agency or official who “limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws.” Either way, lawyers rejoice.”

(helloooo … s’what I’ve been saying all week … this legislation is Lawsuit Central)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/27/AR2010042703894.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
5:29 am

Goldman Sachs execs on hot seat WASHINGTON — It was a day of public flogging for Goldman Sachs. -ConstipationFrontPage

I have no doubt they got whipped, the Banking Queen Barney Fwank probably leathered up and went crotchless, a rubber ball in his mouth perhaps, just sayin, your word choices not mine….

I wonder if Rahm got to poke his finger anywhere?

Anyway, it’s good to see how far our system of justice has advanced, we now have our third world goon executive using it’s stooge media tool to proclaim prejudged guilt, it’s so Zimbabwe like.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
5:33 am

Immigrant statute worries feds, Attorney general: Arizona law may be challenged in court. -Constipation

Blah, blah, blah, blaahhhh, what, doesn’t Dear Leader have his documents in order?

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
5:42 am

whiner – 5:29 … sounds like you’ve given that scenario a lot of thought …

… I mean a LOT of thought …

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
5:49 am

man … talk about #1 on the “Just Doesn’t Get It” (sorry, Bosch) Hit Parade:

“At one point Mr. Viniar prompted a collective gasp when Mr. Levin asked him how he felt when he learned that Goldman employees had used vulgar terms to describe the poor quality of certain Goldman deals. Mr. Viniar replied, “I think that’s very unfortunate to have on e-mail.””

yep, the problem is that it was on e-mail, not that you were selling your clients down the river.

oy.

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
5:58 am

“You say betting against,” Mr. Blankfein said in a lengthy exchange. But he said the people who were coming to Goldman for risk in the housing market got just that: exposure to the housing market. “The unfortunate thing,” he said, “is that the housing market went south very quickly.”

which is a load of rubbish … spreads for the ML broad mortgage index (in other words, ALL mortgages, not just subprime) started widening out in November 2006, hitting its peak in December 2008 – this didn’t happen overnight.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
6:22 am

Remember how they whined and moaned about McCain-Feingold being struck down?-

Still another option under the Dodd bill is for the government to seize the competitors of politically favored institutions, and even to sell those seized firms to the favored too big to fail operations. All of these possible government seizures and bailouts are expressly shielded under the bill from any judicial review.

With such arbitrary government power to favor some firms and punish others, the financial community, and, indeed, business overall, will be political captives of the Obama Administration and the reigning Washington Democrats. If the permanent bailout bill passes, what financial company is going to participate in any way in a fundraiser for a 2012 Obama challenger, or even Republican Congressional or state candidates? What company will dare not pay protection money in the form of political contributions to the reigning Democrats?

Circumventing the Judicial Branch to establish a stream of political donations from the banking industry, how quaint. And here I thought Bookman was against contributions from those heartless industry titans?

Rightwing Troll

April 28th, 2010
6:41 am

Andy’s fantacizing about Barney again. I do commend him for being so “open” about it these days, no more hiding in the bathroom when he does it… Maybe the libural blog here is starting to rub off…

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
6:46 am

This one cracks me up-

Americans are rightly outraged over our nation’s fiscal situation. The course we’re on will lead to public debt that will exceed the size of our entire economy, and a government that will eventually exist to do only two things: fund entitlement programs and make interest payments. Americans may be wondering whether the Greek financial crisis could happen here.-WSJ

Sarah Palin?

Nope.

Paul Ryan?

Nope.

John F Tax Cut Kennedy?

Nope.

The Heritage Foundation?

Nope.

Freaking Steny Hoyer?

Yep.

I’ve never seen some many lies cobbled together, the socialists are getting desperate.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704671904575194113752103610.html

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
6:51 am

Meanwhile, the real culprits sneak out the back door to resume doing their damage, their tracks covered by the their government stooge handlers-

Former Fannie Mae Chief Credit Officer Edward Pinto calculates that as of June 2008, the toxic twins and other government entities were responsible for more than $2.7 trillion in subprime and Alt-A mortgage exposure. Goldman’s mortgage business was small potatoes in comparison; in fact this figure is three times Goldman’s entire balance sheet.

Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned

April 28th, 2010
6:53 am

Whiner sounds kinky. He sounds like he would make a good Republican congressman. Then again, maybe he already is a “good” Republican congressman.

josef nix

April 28th, 2010
7:06 am

Can hardly wait til this p.m. to see what the day crew makes of this…JAY, this is one you ought to leave up for a while seeing as how we stayed on topic more on this one than anything seen other than Palin–even global warming which, we understand, goes up in the Senate before immigration.

SoCo’s point that do you want ICE going after MS-13 or Rosetta and her three kids is a point to think about. Those wanting to amend citizenship to to be afforded only those born on US soil with at least one parent who is a citizen are flying in the face of international convention and opening the door for a real rethink of what makes one a United Stateser.

If we are going to allow states to determine immigration policy, go far it, I say, and send the Carpetbaggers packing, seizing their properties and jailing those who would give them shelter or a ride to work… :-)

However, the illegal Irish and Nigerians can rest easy—they speak English and are the right color.

Oh, well, gotta get the hyperventillating and hyoperbole out of the way before I go off to my public school classroom to school the little unloved, unwanted and uncared for brown munchkins with suspicious surnames and redflag accents…little moonbats in the making… :-)

Que tengan un buen dia…

ENFORCE THE LAW

April 28th, 2010
7:11 am

JAY……..you always pick & choose which laws to OBEY…..YOU ALWAYS…ALWAYS…..ATTACK THOSE ON THE RIGHT………..& You lie in the process……..You are a LIAR..

Blog Soap

April 28th, 2010
7:19 am

Historically, anti-immigration laws are a symptom of a larger problem of political upheaval and it almost always leads to war with someone over something. A scapegoat of the always-present (throughout all of history) “illegal alien” is how the always-present, survival-mode fascists think.

These are the good old days?

McCain will be fun to watch as he goes through his convolutions of policy statements.

Just kidding……

Normal

April 28th, 2010
7:20 am

Happy Wednesday morning to all y’all…I hope your day will be a great day for you…

Some of you might not remember this guy. He was of my father’s generation. I have a book of his. This is long overdue. Read below and be amazed…

Bill Mauldin stamp honors grunts’ hero…

The United States Postal Service deserves a standing ovation for something that’s going to happen this month: Bill Mauldin is getting his own postage stamp.

Mauldin died at age 81 in the early days of 2003. The end of his life had been rugged. He had been scalded in a bathtub, which led to terrible injuries and infections; Alzheimer’s disease was inflicting its cruelties. Unable to care for himself after the scalding, he became a resident of a California nursing home, his health and spirits in rapid decline.

He was not forgotten, though. Mauldin, and his work, meant so much to the millions of Americans who fought in World War II, and to those who had waited for them to come home. He was a kid cartoonist for Stars and Stripes, the military newspaper; Mauldin’s drawings of his muddy, exhausted, whisker-stubbled infantrymen Willie and Joe were the voice of truth about what it was like on the front lines.

Mauldin was an enlisted man just like the soldiers he drew for; his gripes were their gripes, his laughs were their laughs, his heartaches were their heartaches. He was one of them. They loved him.

He never held back. Sometimes, when his cartoons cut too close for comfort, his superior officers tried to tone him down. In one memorable incident, he enraged Gen. George S. Patton, and Patton informed Mauldin he wanted the pointed cartoons — celebrating the fighting men, lampooning the high-ranking officers — to stop. Now.

The news passed from soldier to soldier. How was Sgt. Bill Mauldin going to stand up to Gen. Patton? It seemed impossible.

Not quite. Mauldin, it turned out, had an ardent fan: Five-star Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme commander of the Allied forces in Europe . Ike put out the word: Mauldin draws what Mauldin wants. Mauldin won. Patton lost.

If, in your line of work, you’ve ever considered yourself a young hotshot, or if you’ve ever known anyone who has felt that way about himself or herself, the story of Mauldin’s young manhood will humble you. Here is what, by the time he was 23 years old, Mauldin had accomplished:

He won the Pulitzer Prize. He was featured on the cover of Time magazine. His book “Up Front” was the No. 1 best-seller in the United States .

All of that at 23. Yet when he returned to civilian life and he grew older, he never lost that boyish Mauldin grin, he never outgrew his excitement about doing his job, he never big-shotted or high-hatted the people with whom he worked every day.

I was lucky enough to be one of them; Mauldin roamed the hallways of the Chicago Sun-Times in the late 1960s and early 1970s with no more officiousness or air of haughtiness than if he was a copyboy. That impish look on his face remained.

He had achieved so much. He had won a second Pulitzer Prize, and he should have won a third, for what may be the single greatest editorial cartoon in the history of the craft: his deadline rendering, on the day President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, of the statue at the Lincoln Memorial slumped in grief, its head cradled in its hands. But he never acted as if he was better than the people he met. He was still Mauldin the enlisted man.

During the late summer of 2002, as Mauldin lay in that California nursing home, some of the old World War II infantry guys caught wind of it. They didn’t want Mauldin to go out that way. They thought he should know that he was still their hero.

Gordon Dillow, a columnist for the Orange County Register, put out the call in Southern California for people in the area to send their best wishes to Mauldin; I joined Dillow in the effort, helping to spread the appeal nationally so that Bill would not feel so alone. Soon more than 10,000 letters and cards had arrived at Mauldin’s bedside.

Even better than that, the old soldiers began to show up just to sit with Mauldin, to let him know that they were there for him, as he, long ago, had been there for them. So many volunteered to visit Bill that there was a waiting list. Here is how Todd DePastino, in the first paragraph of his wonderful biography of Mauldin, described it:

“Almost every day in the summer and fall of 2002 they came to Park Superior nursing home in Newport Beach, California, to honor Army Sergeant, Technician Third Grade, Bill Mauldin. They came bearing relics of their youth: medals, insignia, photographs, and carefully folded newspaper clippings. Some wore old garrison caps. Others arrived resplendent in uniforms over a half century old. Almost all of them wept as they filed down the corridor like pilgrims fulfilling some long-neglected obligation.”

One of the veterans explained to me why it was so important:

“You would have to be part of a combat infantry unit to appreciate what moments of relief Bill gave us. You had to be reading a soaking wet Stars and Stripes in a water-filled foxhole and then see one of his cartoons.”

Mauldin is buried in Arlington National Cemetery . This month, the kid cartoonist makes it onto a first-class postage stamp. It’s an honor that most generals and admirals never receive.

What Mauldin would have loved most, I believe, is the sight of the two guys who are keeping him company on that stamp.

The Real McDeal, 1 billion served

April 28th, 2010
7:22 am

I’ll see your Arizona immigration law and raise you a six-month jail term, to be served out picking peanuts or processing chicken. The peons! Trying to get a free ride off us hardly working citizens! We know how to deal with such folks. We have experience. Too bad we don’t need more bricks.

Normal

April 28th, 2010
7:23 am

BTW, I don’t know who wrote this, it wasn’t stated in the article.

stands for decibels

April 28th, 2010
7:25 am

his deadline rendering, on the day President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, of the statue at the Lincoln Memorial slumped in grief, its head cradled in its hands.

Normal, you made me go look it up, because it had been entirely too long since I’d seen it.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/usakennedyj2.jpg

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
7:26 am

G’morning, Normal …

remember yesterday I told you about the silly political parties???

well, the BBC thought you needed to learn more about them:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8631815.stm

Normal

April 28th, 2010
7:28 am

Normal

April 28th, 2010
7:33 am

USinUK,
Great article! We take our politics way too seriously. We need to take a lesson from the Brits! :D

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
7:35 am

Normal – I’m afraid to show the article to the Mister … he’d probably vote for the Zombie party! ;-)

stands for decibels

April 28th, 2010
7:36 am

Ooops, where are my manners. Good mornin’ everyone.

BTW, I don’t know who wrote this, it wasn’t stated in the article.

It was Bob Greene, a CNN contributor; this site appears to be the origin of the piece you posted:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/07/greene.mauldin.stamp/index.html

May I make a modest suggestion (and please excuse me if you’re already aware of this method)–if you’re unsure of the origin of a piece you’ve been emailed or happen upon in a link that contains uncited material?

Simply take copy a random-looking sentence that contains what might be a fairly unique phrase from the article–in my case, I took “Even better than that, the old soldiers began to show up just to sit with Mauldin”–

and here’s the important thing: when you paste it into a Google search field, be sure to put quotation marks around it. That way the search engine looks for specific instances of those words in that order. It really narrows it down quite a bit.

When I did it, the CNN story I linked above was at the top of the list; I see, however, that this story has made the rounds a bit, appearing 233 times. Which is swell, it deserves the exposure, and then some–now your post will be included in the search.

(I mention this because I seem to recall giving you a bit of a hard time a couple weeks back about another article you’d posted, and I felt like I was being a bit of a douchebag about it; I was cursing the darkness rather than lighting a candle, so to speak.)

itpdude

April 28th, 2010
7:41 am

Bookman, get real with the comparison to the US/Canada border. It’s not a rational comparison because there are not the same issues with the US/Can border as there are with the US/Mexico border. Is there a mass illegal immigration situation coming from Canada? Is there a situation with drug trafficking from Canada? Is there a situation with drug cartels at the US/Can border? No to all three.

Rip the law all you want. There is a rational basis for ripping the AZ law. It’s probably going to be kicked by the courts. But comparing the two borders is silliness. You’re better than that.

joe scarboro

April 28th, 2010
7:42 am

why do you bring my name up as to the right, you know after I went to work for CNBS I love Obama and decided I am a knee jurk liberal

Normal

April 28th, 2010
7:43 am

SFD,
Thanks,
Everything I have learned about computers has been from this blog and people like you. I learned about smilies, posting music/articles, and now this. I am glad you think enough of me to help me out. Feel free to correct me anytime…My wife alway does… :D

Filbert

April 28th, 2010
7:53 am

I am amazed at how far the comments and responses and retorts transgressed from the original subject. Folks, the AZ law is just that, a law. It has nothing to do with God or Jesus. It begins by targeting a criminal, which, hopefully, everyone can agree someone in this country “illegally” is. Our federal gov’t has done absolutely zilch to address this problem, and yes, it is a problem. Stories abound of U.S. citizens being unemployed, schools overcrowded and teachers being laid off/furloughed, hospital resources being used by the illegal uninsured. And you will never convince me that have 10-20% of the children in one of my daughter’s classes not being able to speak English (and yes, most likely necause they are here illegally) does not detract from my child’s education. Face it, illegals, love me or hate em, are not paying their fair share of the resources they consume. No income tax cause they’re paid in cash or have fake ids. Free healthcare cause hospitals cannot refuse to treat them. Education without paying property taxes because they don’t own property, and frequently (judging by the number of cars & trucks in front of house, etc. where they live) have multiple people or multiple families occupying a single residence. Sadly, since neither the Bush nor Obama administrations did anything about this problem (and if they did there would be cries of discrimination, racism, etc.) it look slike it’s up tot he states to take care of themselves. I don’t blame anyone for wanting to better their station in life, but sorry, breaking the law to do so gets no where with me.

FinnMcCool

April 28th, 2010
7:58 am

Typically, the lowest price for broadband in the United States, not counting promotions and bundled deals, costs an average of $35 a month for a measly 1 megabit per second connection. Twice this speed is available in Denmark and Canada for lower prices; more strikingly, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Sweden have broadband available for under $20 a month. Additionally, the fastest speeds in the United States are comparatively slow. The common top speed available for residential services in the Unites States is 50 Mbps (and costs $145 a month), while several nations have speeds available that are up to four times faster, for less than $60 a month.
http://www.slate.com/id/2252141/

stands for decibels

April 28th, 2010
7:59 am

Not-joe @ 7.42, who claims that Scarborough loves him some Preznit Obama:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/02/scarborough-stimulus-socialism/

MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough went off on a tear against President Obama’s proposed stimulus plan this morning, slamming tax credits for people who, according to him, “don’t pay taxes.” “It’s not even welfare!” he shouted, and accused Obama of trying to “buy off your constituents”:

SCARBOROUGH: You’re not going to get Republicans to line up and support tax cuts for people who don’t pay taxes. That’s taking you to a position now where you have the federal government — and this is very dangerous — just writing checks to people for doing nothing. It’s not even welfare. … If you want pure straight socialism, if you want to buy off people, do that.

Here’s some more of Joe Scar’s Obamaphilia:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/apr/15/joe-scarborough/heres-scoop-obama-has-worked-ice-cream-business-am/

“We’ve got a president who has never received a paycheck … he’s never received a check from a profitmaking business in his entire life, not one check. Think about it.”

FinnMcCool

April 28th, 2010
8:00 am

Sadly, since neither the Bush nor Obama administrations did anything about this problem (and if they did there would be cries of discrimination, racism, etc.)

yeah, where’s your hood, Filbert?

Curious Observer

April 28th, 2010
8:00 am

Bless you, Normal, for remembering Bill Mauldin.

Outhouse GoKart

April 28th, 2010
8:00 am

See fellow bloggers the term “ILLEGAL” is self-explanatory, however, its understandable that in these politically correct times some might forget such. If these ILLEGALS were legal then no such laws, enforcement, tracking would be necessary.

The bottomline is if one supports these ILLEGALS vs the law then a predjudiced is being shown towards the ILLEGALS. Its not the AZ citizenry who is consistently out of order…its the ILLEGALS, hence, the name.

Really now…it is that difficult to understand?

The Real McDeal, 1 billion served

April 28th, 2010
8:04 am

“I’ve got to get my crops out. Tha’ts my livelihood and I’ve got to think about that first.”

At first the farmers were concerned that the prisoners wouldn’t work as hard as the illegal immigrants they are replacing. They also had concerns about having the prisoners around their families.

But only low-risk prisoners are allowed to work in the fields; sex offenders and inmates sentenced to life without parole are not permitted to participate in the program. And the prisoners are constantly supervised by a prison guard.

The farmers pay the Department of Corrections $9.60 per hour per inmate, most of which goes toward paying for the guards, transportation and lunch. The inmates themselves earn $4 a day, which is nearly seven times the 60 cents a day they can earn in prison. And the money they earn will be waiting for them once they’ve finished serving their sentences.

The work proved so hard, many of the women dropped out quickly. But most of those who have toughed it out say it’s well worth it.

“It’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do in my life, said Kaedra, a drug offender who is working in Pisciotta’s onion field.

Anyway, the Deal that I am proposing is that we fine these illegal immigrants an amount that they cannot afford to pay and then we offer them a chance to work off their fine in the field or processing plant and then once they work it off we release them and re-arrest them a few minutes later for being here illegally and then fine them and… the peons will be right back out there working for the same folks that they were before only now they’ll be doing it for less and the voters will be pacified because we’re taking the illegal immigrants off the streets so they cannot take our voter’s jobs and they’ll vote us back in power, I mean in office, and life is good. What a Deal.

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
8:05 am

OGK – FWIW, my problem with the bill is, as I stated above, that it will become a Lawsuit Bonanza!! talk about opening the floodgates – if Mr. Joe Sixpack doesn’t think that gummint is doing enough, he can sue the bastids … oh, yeah … that’s some GREAT legislation, there!!!

(not to mention, don’t police have ENOUGH on their plates without turning them into INS agents, as well)

USinUK

April 28th, 2010
8:07 am

“Anyway, the Deal that I am proposing is that we fine these illegal immigrants an amount that they cannot afford to pay and then we offer them a chance to work off their fine in the field or processing plant”

hooray!!! bring back indentured servitude!!! :roll:

I propose that we fine the HOLY CRAP out of the people who knowingly HIRE illegal immigrants. if the jobs dry up, the majority of the illegal immigrant traffic will, too.

(and I do mean KNOWINGLY hire – if they can show a good faith effort that they obtained the documents that made their employees seem legal, then no fine)

FinnMcCool

April 28th, 2010
8:08 am

Every year, more than 6,000 Americans are killed on the job. More than 6 million are injured, at least half of them seriously. Another 60,000 die from their injuries or from cancer, lung and heart ailments and other occupational diseases caused by exposure to toxic substances.

Think of that: An average of at least 16 workers killed and nearly 5,500 badly hurt on each and every day, plus 135 or more dying daily from job-related illness. The financial toll also is high: More than $3 billion in health care expenses and other costs to employers and workers, such as lost wages and production.

http://www.truthout.org/a-fitting-memorial-labors-dead-and-injured58924

The Real McDeal, 1 billion served

April 28th, 2010
8:14 am

I propose that we fine the HOLY CRAP out of the people who knowingly HIRE illegal immigrants. if the jobs dry up, the majority of the illegal immigrant traffic will, too.

(and I do mean KNOWINGLY hire – if they can show a good faith effort that they obtained the documents that made their employees seem legal, then no fine)

Nahhhhh! What benefit would that be for me.

Outhouse GoKart

April 28th, 2010
8:15 am

“The financial toll also is high: More than $3 billion in health care expenses and other costs to employers and workers, such as lost wages and production.”

3 Billion isnt that high considering the employers WC insurance carrier pays for much of this. And think about this…many WC injuries are due to employee stupidity or workplace guidelines being ignored.

Occupational diseases are a horse of a different color.

Morrus

April 28th, 2010
8:32 am

Vote out the incumbents and start over

Gale

April 28th, 2010
8:42 am

This certainly was a busy topic. I haven’t a hope of catching up and still get my work done. I do think I will go searching for southern AZ papers to see what the locals think of the law. My partner’s dad lives on the southern border of New Mexico and they have problems with border runners there too. I accept this could be unconstitutional, but the situation is unusual. Also, on the issue of legal immigration, I agree that we need to shorten the path to citizenship for those who want to legally immigrate. It takes far too long. Illegal immigration, on the other hand, should not be tolerated at all.

Steve

April 28th, 2010
8:46 am

Polls indicate 70% of Arizona citizens (2/3 Hispanic) favor this new law.
The sad part, Jay, is that Arizona had to take these steps because the politicians in DC (Repub & Dem) won’t do their job to protect our borders. They have hemmed, hawed, and done nothing about this issue for decades.
Time for someone with cojones to step up to the plate. Good for Arizona.

Get Real

April 28th, 2010
8:52 am

Everybody’s griping about Arizona doing something that Obozo and the Looney Tunes in Congress won’t do and that is to do something about Illegals. Illegals come into America and commit crimes and just disappear back across the border. No one knows anything about them because they are undocumented. Terrorists could being anything across the border and no one would stop them. Drugs and brought across the border every day! Everybody talks about profiling and violation of privacy. But, Roswell cops have to make 25 DUI arrests per year or they are put on another shift, Traffic light cameras violate privacy, the City of Morrow sent out tickets for running a red light to about a hundred people that were in a FUNERAL Procession! I have to show my ID if I want to buy alcohol to prove I’m legal age!!! INS raided construction sites where hispanics were working and usually Texas license plates were on the vehicles but Obozo has fixed that problem by killing the economy even more since he has been Prezbo! Build a fence on the border, patrol the border, arrest and deport all crossing! Not a rocket science project!

Gale

April 28th, 2010
8:54 am

I’ll be real interested to see how many AZ citizens object to being asked for proof of residence. Somehow, I didn’t think it would become open season on Hispanics with so many of the citizens of AZ being Hispanic.

DWTOO

April 28th, 2010
9:01 am

Know how to rid this country of illegal immigrants? Don’t hire them. Fine the companies that do hire them. Enforce the laws on the books. Problem is then these companies would have to pay someone more money and the richer folks amongst us would have to pay their maids a real wage. Can’t have that. Ruben Navarette has a good column that mirrors Jay’s and is good, realistic reading.

EJ

April 28th, 2010
9:05 am

Every time I buy alcohol I must show ID. Why? The government has convinced retailers that there is “reasonable suspicion” that I am under 21.

Why is it that so many of us are held to different standards? Why am I, a law-abiding US citizen constantly forced to submit to examinations for what are my rights, while those that are here illegally are being protected by the elected officials who were sworn to uphold the laws already on the books?

Frankly, the most of us are tired of the double-standard, and even more tired of paying for it.

Get Real

April 28th, 2010
9:12 am

I once said, “We will bury you,” and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Nikita Khrushchev

Watch Scout’s video and you will understand what Khrushev was talking about!

Hmmmmmmm

April 28th, 2010
9:26 am

Get Real
It’s sad but VERY true……..

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....

April 28th, 2010
9:33 pm

MAY DAY: HISPANICS PLAN RALLIES IN 70 CITIES

Kewl, while we got them all in one place, let’s line up the buses and point them towards Hispanica.

Buh bye, y’all.