A few conservative voices criticize Arizona law
Arizona’s draconian new law regarding illegal immigration has drawn harsh criticism from many on the left, including President Obama. Most egregious is a provision that requires local law enforcement to check documentation of those they suspect might be in this country illegally, and to detain those who cannot produce such documentation.
In other words, if you look, sound or act as though you might be of Hispanic origin, you risk being accosted by law enforcement officers every time you venture into public. It’s a vast expansion of government power, yet most of those on the right who have claimed to be outraged by imaginary assaults on liberty by the Obama administration have been silent about this very real intrusion.
Instead, we get nonsense such as this tweet from Erick Erickson of CNN and Red State.com, who asks: “If Canadians were crossing illegally N2 Arizona, no one would be playing the race card. Can AZ not respond just b/c of the illegals’ race?”
Given the porous U.S.-Canadian border, I’m sure that there are a good number of Canadians in Arizona without proper papers, especially in the wintertime. And I very much doubt that they will be accosted by Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Phoenix on the street and tossed into the county jail. So yes, race indeed plays a very large role, and it’s ludicrous to pretend otherwise.
However, there are exceptions to the right’s silence, and they should be noted. Former U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough, conservative host of “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, condemns the provision in no uncertain words:
“It does offend me that when one out of every three citizens in the state of Arizona are Hispanics, and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they’re walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they’re walking their child to school, and they’re an American citizen or a legal, legal immigrant, can now put a target on their back and make them think every time they walk out of their door, they may have to prove something. I will tell you that is unAmerican. It is unacceptable, and it’s unAmerican.”
Marco Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants and a conservative Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Florida, has expressed similar concerns:
“States certainly have the right to enact policies to protect their citizens, but Arizona’s policy shows the difficulty and limitations of states trying to act piecemeal to solve what is a serious federal problem. From what I have read in news reports, I do have concerns about this legislation. While I don’t believe Arizona’s policy was based on anything other than trying to get a handle on our broken borders, I think aspects of the law, especially that dealing with ‘reasonable suspicion,’ are going to put our law enforcement officers in an incredibly difficult position. It could also unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens. Throughout American history and throughout this administration we have seen that when government is given an inch it takes a mile.”
We need a rational approach to immigration policy in this country, although many of us would disagree on what might constitute such a policy. However, a law that presumes that a third of the residents of Arizona are here illegally unless and until they can prove otherwise — surely we can agree that is excessive and, as Scarborough calls it, unAmerican.
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394 comments Add your comment
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
9:23 pm
josef
She’d definitely have to be quiet during a traffic stop in AZ now. LOL!!!
getalife
April 27th, 2010
9:25 pm
leg humper,
Yeah, in Nov. there will be another choice of two corrupt parties.
Americans will have to decide which one is less evil .
But will still vote for evil.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
9:26 pm
josef,
5th grade may be just under the demographic, but I think we’ve lost the surfing school kid crowd since Glee is on.
As for those being my opinions, yes they are, but they’re much more grounded in the facts written in the law than the hyperbolic opinions that have been coming from your side since the topic was posted.
Anyway, I enjoyed the sparring. Have a good night everyone.
JGrice
April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm
Im glad someone finaly took action. AZ is doing the right thing IMO, A lot of people see this as see a Mexican and they are automaticaly an illegal and that isnt the case.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm
SoCo
Have another colleague who’s from the US Virgin Islands. She is BLACK and I do mean midnight so. She has a strong Caribbean accent. She says she had to get a US passport just to travel about here on the mainland since her other documents were “questionable” given her skin color and voice tone. And talk about being in a snit over this latest one, the Puerto Ricans are in a high dither!
Del
April 27th, 2010
9:31 pm
SoCo,
I’m not sure where you sit professionally. I do think you are one of the most level headed posters on this blog. I’m talking about the Dept. of Homeland Security, discontinuing the illegal employer raids. I’m talking about the administration ignoring the Southern Border problem. Napalitano, today said “the Mexican border is as secure as its ever been”. I’m talking about sanctuary cities. I’m talking about politicians of both stripes vote pandering. I’m talking about an American city being described as the “kidnapping capitol of the world. I’m talking about an American citizen being murdered on his ranch. I’m talking about illegal drugs being run into this country. Please don’t try and tell me that the government is doing the best it can.
md
April 27th, 2010
9:32 pm
SoCo,
This thread probably equates more to southern border illegals due to the topic, but I for one include ALL when I speak of illegals. They all equally broke the law. After watching the gumball video, it ticked me off even more knowing how many are denied a chance to come here when others are jumping in front of the line. But this country seems to have a tendency to reward for bad choices – so just par for the course.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
9:32 pm
“Don’t feel too bad. I played sandlot football but I never played in the NFL. Big difference.”
I don’t feel badly, because I never had aspirations to be in the military (or the NFL). In my worldview, people can fulfill many different roles and still be of great service to society. Military/police is just one of those roles. It sounds like in your world it’s the only role for which you have any respect. Too bad. I’ve dedicated my life to healing people instead, and am quite satisfied with my choice.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:35 pm
RW
Ypu’re right on the demographic!
And, BTW, what “side” am I on?
Enjoyed the sparring and exchange of hyperbole with you, too…check under the bed for illegals from south of the Rio Grande and I’ll check under mine for Carpetbaggers from north of the Mason-Dixon…I’ll trade you one of mine for ten of yours any day of the week…
Dusty
April 27th, 2010
9:46 pm
No matter if they are illegal immigrants, I still love the Viking kitties. They were always my favorites. I am forever indebted to RW for that introduction. It was love at first sight.
Bruno, rabbits are cute as can be but they will never be the Viking bunnies! Sorry about that..
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
9:47 pm
Scout said, ““For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown”
Scout, I am a Viet Nam era veteran, too. And I have had, friends, colleagues and business associates who were in Viet Nam during the war. Not all of them thought they were fighting for freedom. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember anyone ever mentioning that word. What I do remember was a sign that one the fellows in my flight (I was in USAFSS) posted on his door. It read We are the unwilling, asked to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:53 pm
Time to call it quits for the evening…g’night all…
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
9:53 pm
josef
LOL!!
Del
I didn’t say the government doesn’t have room for improvement. However, to say that the people who put boots on the ground everyday are not doing their best is akin to spitting in the face of those who do the job in my book. I’ve been with CBP for close to 3 years now, so I may have a differing perspective from most here on the blog. There is a difference in the government who sits in DC and makes the decisions vs. the government that’s boots in the sand with small teams covering vast areas along the Southern border.
I’ll probably get flak for this, but when you’re talking about quitting the raids and stuff, it’s not the agents or officers locally making that decision. I’d be more inclined to say that there’s some deep-pocketed political donor who “suggests” to the donoree that the raids ease up so production doesn’t have to slow down or stop for lack of workers. At the same time, with the rise of gangs like MS-13 and such, would you rather ICE spend time tracking down Rosetta and her 3 kids or those5 MS-13 members who are trafficking coke and killing everything in site?
And no offense to the rancher, because he was being human and helping out another human being, but if I lived along the border, I would not put out one ounce of water or food no matter what. It may not be the most humanely position, but I see it like feeding stray animals. People are going to go and do what is easiest to do. If I were on the border, and you cross on my land without prior authorization, you’d better flash a badge or have 4.2 speed, because I wouldn’t move around without some serious heat within arm’s reach.
md
I’ve had Brazilians brag how they got their “papers” by marrying a US citizen after being here for years illegally. We catch people of all nationalities and ages coming here to find work with 95% of them having the proper and legal documents to enter this country. I’m like you, illegal means just that, illegal!!
sorry about the long post.
Del
April 27th, 2010
9:54 pm
md,
My wife who is ethnic Chinese came to this country 12 years ago as an I.T professional. We’ve been married just over ten years and have a young daughter. My wife applied for green card status for her sister. The application is in its fourth year and will take another six years before her sister can interview with immigration services and be granted a “Green Card” That’s typical of the legal immigration process. BTW…my wife is a naturalized citizen and it took her seven years. The legal immigration process was designed to control immigration in the best interest of the country and those who truly want to become Americans. What we have today is an out of control mess that our government allows due to political correctness and vote pandering. They do this with complete disregard for the security of this country, while scape goating the state of Arizona for trying to protect its citizens.
MAC
April 27th, 2010
9:58 pm
Arizona residents pay the same taxes as everyone else in the U.S. but are paying an undue burden for the gross dereliction of the U.S. govt to protect its citizens from illegal immigration that is overwhelming its schools, hospitals, social services and law enforcement. This amounts to an undeclared and illegal tax on all Arizona citizens. The state has a right and an obligation to do whatever is necessary to protect its citizens and mitigate the burden. The federal govt has abdicated its responsibility, for what is largely political reasons.
I support the citizens of Arizona 100% until the Feds seal the border.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
10:02 pm
MAC
How can the border be sealed? Are you willing to pay for it?
Del
April 27th, 2010
10:03 pm
SoCo,
I’ll just have to leave you with this and then you can have the last word. First off don’t tell me about “boots on the ground” been there done that and was fortunate to come back. Those who put their boots on the ground I have the deepest respect for. Those who are charged with putting those boots on the ground in my opinion are guilty of high treason as it pertains to Southern border security. I’ve been clear on my opinion all evening long, so I’ll thank you for the exchange and wish you a good night.
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
10:03 pm
MAC, do you support the citizens of Arizona who happen to have brown faces?
Dusty
April 27th, 2010
10:04 pm
Theyeshaveit,
Fighting for the ungrateful, huh? How do you feel about the people who frequently make comments about our useless war in Iraq or Afghanistan while our troops are still there fighting? More ungrateful?
I hope we never make out fighters feel the loss of support that happened with Viet Nam. Seems to me those who served in the military never forget. Some Americans seem to forget about the people who are laying their lives on the line for this country.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
Bruno:
1) That’s great ……… as I have needed your type of services more than once in the line of duty. You should be proud. Just remember – your right to do that was given to you throughout history by the soldier.
2) “Sorry, pal, I live in the same real world you do. To be honest, I find your brand of religiously driven self-righteousness to be a liability, not an asset.”
You can say that but as Davy Crockett used to say, “Make sure you are right and then go straight ahead.”
And may I quote Patton, “A bad battle plan executed with extreme violence is better than no plan.”
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
Just because they’re on the right, doesn’t make them right. You go to a foreign country and you have to show a passport or ID, there’s NO way around it. What’s the difference? ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL, ship them home and let Mexico or any other third world country foot the bill.
Way to go AZ.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
Del @ 9:54
I agree with your assessment of the process, but I think it’s more of our “entitlement” thinking as US citizens. You’d be amazed at what we have to deal with and take from fellow citizens who “feel” they have the right to do or say whatever they like. It would be great for someone with balls to come along and say F*@k It, rules are the rules and no exceptions!!! I’d give that person a vote if I knew they’d stick to their words.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
10:07 pm
Time for me to call it a night as well… Enjoyed the dialogue.
Good night all.
casual observer
April 27th, 2010
10:08 pm
Weasel Boy Bookman is sure to side with the fringe in all arguments. As this administration has demonstrated , it’s not the government of the people anymore. It’s the government of fringe Wacko’s like Weasel Boy.
md
April 27th, 2010
10:09 pm
“How can the border be sealed? Are you willing to pay for it?”
I remember a hc argument that said we are paying for it one way or the other due to cost of services. Since the hc bill does not technically cover illegals, we are still paying. So by that logic, the money used to seal the border will be gained by less cost of services.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:09 pm
Theyeshavit:
Two points:
1) “Fighting” is thrown around very loosely. An Air Traffic controller in Saigon is “serving” and may get wounded in a rocket attack but he is not “fighting”. Grunts fight.
2) This is just one reason why I “fought: (India Company, 3rd Bn., 4th Marines) ……………
Vietnam Magazine (2010)
DECORATED NVA OFFICER CONVICTED OF SUBVERSION
“In late December, a 60 year-old former lieutenant colonel and proponent of democratic reforms in Vietnam, Tran Anh Kim, was convicted of subversion and sentenced to five years in prison. According to press reports, Kim’s trial was the first of a series of upcoming prosecutions of pro-democracy and human-rights activists. Kim, who faced a potential death sentence, stood accused of joining an organization promoting multiparty democracy, of posting pro-democracy articles on the Internet and being a member of an outlawed party.”
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
10:10 pm
Dusty, there are wars and then there are wars. BTW, when I was in USAF Security Service, I would wear my uniform to qualify for the military stand-by price we had back then. There were a few airports that I came into where I was greeted by any number of epithets for wearing the uniform. BTW, I have a cousin who served in Afghanistan. How about you? Have you done military service?
MAC
April 27th, 2010
10:13 pm
All citizens of all colors are being burdened by this ongoing invasion so yes I support brown faces in Arizona and all other citizens there.
Yes, I support paying for sealing the border. Perhaps some of the wasted and unspent stimulus should be redirected there.
Btw, I am a former resident of Arizona, and if you are not, then you don’t know WTF you are talking about if you don’t think the gross unenforcement of immigration law is not a crisis there. CA, NM and TX too for that matter.
The old straw man of the poor migrant worker minding his/her own business and doing jobs no American will do is a fallacy. The violence and drugs spilling over the borders has increased exponentially.
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
10:16 pm
MAC, one would hope that we do as much in Arizona to stop the flow of illegal drugs across the border as we do with people. If Americans were not buying, the cartels would not be selling.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
josef,
On this one the “side” you’re on is clearly the moonbat side. (ISH)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need to drop this off for the late night/early morning crew. Shortly after midnight tonight it’ll be the Full Pink Moon. Enjoy!
Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned
April 27th, 2010
10:23 pm
Scout sounds so lonely. No wars to fight. No enemies to kill. So lonely.
LOLO
April 27th, 2010
10:24 pm
There is a reason each country has borders with others; to maintain national identity and for protection of her citizens, of both physical and property. When will people wise up that open borders and blanket amnesty deteriorate the valued traditions of strengthening the U.S. via controlled immigration and assimilation of some of the best the world has to offer, no matter the country or ethnicity?
Arizona is simply trying to stop violent take overs from drug cartels and the non-violent displacement of the American worker by the illegals that have the easiest access to the U.S, primarily Mexican and Central Americans. By allowing them to enter unchecked and eventually granting blanket amnesty we are putting the future of the U.S. at risk by “disenfranchising” those from other parts of the world that wish to come legally and contribute to betterment of the country rather than sending most of their earnings back across the border.
There is nothing xenophobic about the Arizona law, rather it is grounded in the fundamentals of ensuring American greatness and security and ensuring fairness for others wishing to faithfully pursue their own American dream.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:26 pm
theyeshaveit:
1) “There’s the infantry and then there’s everybody else.” Author Unknown
2) “I have the sense from time to time that I am not alone, and I suspect that despite the limited understanding we have of events in distant places, there will always be those among us who have the gleam of the quest in their eyes. They are people of every sex and station and they yearn to be challenged to a cause. They will always be looking for that wrong to right, that ill to cure, that song to sing; and there will always be those who will go to arms in aid of the helpless and the downtrodden. Ignoring the political issues of the moment, these people will champion the weak and the poor in the face of evil and tyranny. And no matter what the outcome, in their romantic hearts they will always keep the secret, if secret it must be, that they are better men for having held the lamp beside the golden door”. David Donovan “Once a Warrior King”
3) “The rifleman fights without promise of either reward or relief. Behind every river there’s another hill, and behind that hill, another river. After weeks or months on the line only a wound can offer him the comfort of safety, shelter, and a bed. Those who are left to fight, fight on, evading death but knowing that with each day of evasion they have exhausted one more chance for survival. Sooner or later, unless victory comes, this chase must end on the litter or in the grave.” General of the Army
Omar N. Bradley
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:27 pm
Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned :
LOL !
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
10:29 pm
“Just remember – your right to do that was given to you throughout history by the soldier.”
I don’t think it’s quite that simple, Scout. The bottom line is that military and security are only ONE of the foundational blocks that make up a successful society. I’m not sure why you can’t recognize that.
“You can say that but as Davy Crockett used to say, “Make sure you are right and then go straight ahead.”
The problem being with the “making sure you are right” part. Self-assessment is one of the most unreliable tools available to us. And the fact is that our enemies are just as convinced of their moral superiority as we are. As such, I don’t place a whole lot of value on moral certainty.
Just being honest with you, Scout. I’m glad you’re proud of your choices in life. That doesn’t excuse you from being respectful of others’ choices/roles, however.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
10:31 pm
“Bruno, rabbits are cute as can be but they will never be the Viking bunnies! Sorry about that..”
Dusty, @@–I’m making a Norse outfit for her as we speak. Based on y’all’s reactions, I should be in like Flynn after that.
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
10:32 pm
LOLO, if it’s the cartel folks that Arizonans are concerned, they should go after them. At the same time, we need to stop the demand part of supply and demand here by getting Americans off of drugs. The illegal alien population is not the direct equivalent of the drug cartel people. And certainly, the Americans of color in Arizona should not be targeted, but under this illegal law (The Supreme Court will likely knock it down)they will.
By the way, just curious, what would a borderless country look like?
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:36 pm
Bruno:
But you misinterpret. I am respectful more than you know.
And there are many building blocks ………. but there is evil in the world and without the soldier nothing can be built …………. Valley Forge ensured the founding of this country. Take that away and nothing else had a chance.
IT IS THE SOLDIER
It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.
It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.
It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.
Author Unknown
Illegal Means You're Illegal Which Is Not Legal
April 27th, 2010
10:37 pm
Beef up the borders, amend the constitution to DISALLOW citizenship for persons born on American soil without an American parent, establish workable quotas for migrant\seasonal workers, pass legislation mandating English as the official language, enact a fair tax, and VOILA, Americans take back America and legal immigrant Mexicans can vie for the jobs on a need basis.
As for the illegals already here? Slap them with a steep fine and give them ten years to pay it off. God knows the country needs the money, and maybe we can recoup some of the billions of dollars that went to Mexico instead of Washington.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
10:40 pm
Well, even I can only take so much from you libs. in one day. I’m outta here. See you tomorrow:
“Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!”
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
10:41 pm
Scout, we’ll talk another day. Goodnight.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
10:44 pm
“But you misinterpret. I am respectful more than you know.”
And in return, if you have followed my blogs at all, I am grateful for our strong military and am glad that the US is the world’s policeman and not someone else.
At the same time, there is a reason why our military remains under civilian control and why safeguards like Miranda rights need to be in place. My concern is the disrespect you have consistently shown toward these necessary protections.
LOLO
April 27th, 2010
10:47 pm
theyshaveit,
First, the drug violence is only half of my point for greater enforcement. As I stated, job displacement, tax burdens for public services, and inequality in future citizenship and visa adjudication are other issues.
Secondly, I am not sure the Supreme Court will knock this down for the reason that undocumented non-citizens do not have the rights afforded to legal visitors and citizens. As others have stated, how is this any different than law enforcement asking you for identification because you chose to take an airline as transportation? You must present ID before boarding and present a passport when traveling overseas. In Arizona, if someone is involved in an activity that activates law enforcement such as being pulled dover for speeding, then legal documentation must be shown to operate that vehicle, so why not also prove legal status in the county?
As for what a borderless country would look like, try the Congo (DPRC) where various ethnic groups continually war with each other even though they are supposed to be “assimilated” as Congolese. The borders of this country as well as its name have changed many times over years are its borden lines are redrawn based on among other things, tribal movements and immigration (refugees?) from neighboring nations.
Also, check out Kashmir in India/Pakistan. That worked out real well huh?
vuduchld
April 27th, 2010
11:10 pm
The AZ bill should require EVERY citizen who lives or comes into the state to be checked – NO EXCEPTIONS, that way EVERYONE is subject to the law. Now me, I’m stearing way clear of that state, why should I give my dollars to a state that clearly don’t want me. I’m an American so when AZ passed this law it told me that I wasn’t wanted. Heck, I’m African-american, they’ll stop me because those folks love racial profiling, that is why this law should apply to EVERYONE!!
It’s time for these monkeys to put up or shut up. If you do one you have to do EVERYONE, even the stoopid gubner who signed the bill should not be immune from this law. TIME TO SHOW YOUR PAPERS PEOPLE!!
dw
April 27th, 2010
11:44 pm
I’m with Jay. Let the U.S. get swallowed up by illegals so that we can become that 3rd world country that Jay and lib minions would like to occur.
I’m really not for hassling legal people over and over based on race, but I’m definitely for kicking out illegals if found to be illegal.
ken
April 28th, 2010
12:27 am
If people from Alabama were crossing into Georgia, you would surely want it stopped !!!
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
4:44 am
wow … add another conservative voice to your list, Jay … none other than former Bush speechwriter, Michael Gerson:
“But chaos at the border is not an argument for states to take control of American immigration policy — an authority that Arizona has seized in order to abuse.
American states have broad powers. But they are not permitted their own foreign or immigration policy. One reason is that immigration law concerns not only the treatment of illegal immigrants but also the proper treatment of American citizens. And here the Arizona law fails badly.
-snip-
“The government of Arizona, it turns out, has been ambushed by its own legislature. If this vague law is applied vigorously, the state will be regularly sued by citizens who are wrongfully stopped. But if the law is not applied vigorously enough, it contains a provision allowing citizens to sue any agency or official who “limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws.” Either way, lawyers rejoice.”
(helloooo … s’what I’ve been saying all week … this legislation is Lawsuit Central)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/27/AR2010042703894.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
5:29 am
Goldman Sachs execs on hot seat WASHINGTON — It was a day of public flogging for Goldman Sachs. -ConstipationFrontPage
I have no doubt they got whipped, the Banking Queen Barney Fwank probably leathered up and went crotchless, a rubber ball in his mouth perhaps, just sayin, your word choices not mine….
I wonder if Rahm got to poke his finger anywhere?
Anyway, it’s good to see how far our system of justice has advanced, we now have our third world goon executive using it’s stooge media tool to proclaim prejudged guilt, it’s so Zimbabwe like.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
5:33 am
Immigrant statute worries feds, Attorney general: Arizona law may be challenged in court. -Constipation
Blah, blah, blah, blaahhhh, what, doesn’t Dear Leader have his documents in order?
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
5:42 am
whiner – 5:29 … sounds like you’ve given that scenario a lot of thought …
… I mean a LOT of thought …
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
5:49 am
man … talk about #1 on the “Just Doesn’t Get It” (sorry, Bosch) Hit Parade:
“At one point Mr. Viniar prompted a collective gasp when Mr. Levin asked him how he felt when he learned that Goldman employees had used vulgar terms to describe the poor quality of certain Goldman deals. Mr. Viniar replied, “I think that’s very unfortunate to have on e-mail.””
yep, the problem is that it was on e-mail, not that you were selling your clients down the river.
oy.
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
5:58 am
“You say betting against,” Mr. Blankfein said in a lengthy exchange. But he said the people who were coming to Goldman for risk in the housing market got just that: exposure to the housing market. “The unfortunate thing,” he said, “is that the housing market went south very quickly.”
which is a load of rubbish … spreads for the ML broad mortgage index (in other words, ALL mortgages, not just subprime) started widening out in November 2006, hitting its peak in December 2008 – this didn’t happen overnight.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
6:22 am
Remember how they whined and moaned about McCain-Feingold being struck down?-
Still another option under the Dodd bill is for the government to seize the competitors of politically favored institutions, and even to sell those seized firms to the favored too big to fail operations. All of these possible government seizures and bailouts are expressly shielded under the bill from any judicial review.
With such arbitrary government power to favor some firms and punish others, the financial community, and, indeed, business overall, will be political captives of the Obama Administration and the reigning Washington Democrats. If the permanent bailout bill passes, what financial company is going to participate in any way in a fundraiser for a 2012 Obama challenger, or even Republican Congressional or state candidates? What company will dare not pay protection money in the form of political contributions to the reigning Democrats?
Circumventing the Judicial Branch to establish a stream of political donations from the banking industry, how quaint. And here I thought Bookman was against contributions from those heartless industry titans?
Rightwing Troll
April 28th, 2010
6:41 am
Andy’s fantacizing about Barney again. I do commend him for being so “open” about it these days, no more hiding in the bathroom when he does it… Maybe the libural blog here is starting to rub off…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
6:46 am
This one cracks me up-
Americans are rightly outraged over our nation’s fiscal situation. The course we’re on will lead to public debt that will exceed the size of our entire economy, and a government that will eventually exist to do only two things: fund entitlement programs and make interest payments. Americans may be wondering whether the Greek financial crisis could happen here.-WSJ
Sarah Palin?
Nope.
Paul Ryan?
Nope.
John F Tax Cut Kennedy?
Nope.
The Heritage Foundation?
Nope.
Freaking Steny Hoyer?
Yep.
I’ve never seen some many lies cobbled together, the socialists are getting desperate.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704671904575194113752103610.html
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
6:51 am
Meanwhile, the real culprits sneak out the back door to resume doing their damage, their tracks covered by the their government stooge handlers-
Former Fannie Mae Chief Credit Officer Edward Pinto calculates that as of June 2008, the toxic twins and other government entities were responsible for more than $2.7 trillion in subprime and Alt-A mortgage exposure. Goldman’s mortgage business was small potatoes in comparison; in fact this figure is three times Goldman’s entire balance sheet.
Tails from the Dark Side of the Mooned
April 28th, 2010
6:53 am
Whiner sounds kinky. He sounds like he would make a good Republican congressman. Then again, maybe he already is a “good” Republican congressman.
josef nix
April 28th, 2010
7:06 am
Can hardly wait til this p.m. to see what the day crew makes of this…JAY, this is one you ought to leave up for a while seeing as how we stayed on topic more on this one than anything seen other than Palin–even global warming which, we understand, goes up in the Senate before immigration.
SoCo’s point that do you want ICE going after MS-13 or Rosetta and her three kids is a point to think about. Those wanting to amend citizenship to to be afforded only those born on US soil with at least one parent who is a citizen are flying in the face of international convention and opening the door for a real rethink of what makes one a United Stateser.
If we are going to allow states to determine immigration policy, go far it, I say, and send the Carpetbaggers packing, seizing their properties and jailing those who would give them shelter or a ride to work…
However, the illegal Irish and Nigerians can rest easy—they speak English and are the right color.
Oh, well, gotta get the hyperventillating and hyoperbole out of the way before I go off to my public school classroom to school the little unloved, unwanted and uncared for brown munchkins with suspicious surnames and redflag accents…little moonbats in the making…
Que tengan un buen dia…
ENFORCE THE LAW
April 28th, 2010
7:11 am
JAY……..you always pick & choose which laws to OBEY…..YOU ALWAYS…ALWAYS…..ATTACK THOSE ON THE RIGHT………..& You lie in the process……..You are a LIAR..
Blog Soap
April 28th, 2010
7:19 am
Historically, anti-immigration laws are a symptom of a larger problem of political upheaval and it almost always leads to war with someone over something. A scapegoat of the always-present (throughout all of history) “illegal alien” is how the always-present, survival-mode fascists think.
These are the good old days?
McCain will be fun to watch as he goes through his convolutions of policy statements.
Just kidding……
Normal
April 28th, 2010
7:20 am
Happy Wednesday morning to all y’all…I hope your day will be a great day for you…
Some of you might not remember this guy. He was of my father’s generation. I have a book of his. This is long overdue. Read below and be amazed…
Bill Mauldin stamp honors grunts’ hero…
The United States Postal Service deserves a standing ovation for something that’s going to happen this month: Bill Mauldin is getting his own postage stamp.
Mauldin died at age 81 in the early days of 2003. The end of his life had been rugged. He had been scalded in a bathtub, which led to terrible injuries and infections; Alzheimer’s disease was inflicting its cruelties. Unable to care for himself after the scalding, he became a resident of a California nursing home, his health and spirits in rapid decline.
He was not forgotten, though. Mauldin, and his work, meant so much to the millions of Americans who fought in World War II, and to those who had waited for them to come home. He was a kid cartoonist for Stars and Stripes, the military newspaper; Mauldin’s drawings of his muddy, exhausted, whisker-stubbled infantrymen Willie and Joe were the voice of truth about what it was like on the front lines.
Mauldin was an enlisted man just like the soldiers he drew for; his gripes were their gripes, his laughs were their laughs, his heartaches were their heartaches. He was one of them. They loved him.
He never held back. Sometimes, when his cartoons cut too close for comfort, his superior officers tried to tone him down. In one memorable incident, he enraged Gen. George S. Patton, and Patton informed Mauldin he wanted the pointed cartoons — celebrating the fighting men, lampooning the high-ranking officers — to stop. Now.
The news passed from soldier to soldier. How was Sgt. Bill Mauldin going to stand up to Gen. Patton? It seemed impossible.
Not quite. Mauldin, it turned out, had an ardent fan: Five-star Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme commander of the Allied forces in Europe . Ike put out the word: Mauldin draws what Mauldin wants. Mauldin won. Patton lost.
If, in your line of work, you’ve ever considered yourself a young hotshot, or if you’ve ever known anyone who has felt that way about himself or herself, the story of Mauldin’s young manhood will humble you. Here is what, by the time he was 23 years old, Mauldin had accomplished:
He won the Pulitzer Prize. He was featured on the cover of Time magazine. His book “Up Front” was the No. 1 best-seller in the United States .
All of that at 23. Yet when he returned to civilian life and he grew older, he never lost that boyish Mauldin grin, he never outgrew his excitement about doing his job, he never big-shotted or high-hatted the people with whom he worked every day.
I was lucky enough to be one of them; Mauldin roamed the hallways of the Chicago Sun-Times in the late 1960s and early 1970s with no more officiousness or air of haughtiness than if he was a copyboy. That impish look on his face remained.
He had achieved so much. He had won a second Pulitzer Prize, and he should have won a third, for what may be the single greatest editorial cartoon in the history of the craft: his deadline rendering, on the day President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, of the statue at the Lincoln Memorial slumped in grief, its head cradled in its hands. But he never acted as if he was better than the people he met. He was still Mauldin the enlisted man.
During the late summer of 2002, as Mauldin lay in that California nursing home, some of the old World War II infantry guys caught wind of it. They didn’t want Mauldin to go out that way. They thought he should know that he was still their hero.
Gordon Dillow, a columnist for the Orange County Register, put out the call in Southern California for people in the area to send their best wishes to Mauldin; I joined Dillow in the effort, helping to spread the appeal nationally so that Bill would not feel so alone. Soon more than 10,000 letters and cards had arrived at Mauldin’s bedside.
Even better than that, the old soldiers began to show up just to sit with Mauldin, to let him know that they were there for him, as he, long ago, had been there for them. So many volunteered to visit Bill that there was a waiting list. Here is how Todd DePastino, in the first paragraph of his wonderful biography of Mauldin, described it:
“Almost every day in the summer and fall of 2002 they came to Park Superior nursing home in Newport Beach, California, to honor Army Sergeant, Technician Third Grade, Bill Mauldin. They came bearing relics of their youth: medals, insignia, photographs, and carefully folded newspaper clippings. Some wore old garrison caps. Others arrived resplendent in uniforms over a half century old. Almost all of them wept as they filed down the corridor like pilgrims fulfilling some long-neglected obligation.”
One of the veterans explained to me why it was so important:
“You would have to be part of a combat infantry unit to appreciate what moments of relief Bill gave us. You had to be reading a soaking wet Stars and Stripes in a water-filled foxhole and then see one of his cartoons.”
Mauldin is buried in Arlington National Cemetery . This month, the kid cartoonist makes it onto a first-class postage stamp. It’s an honor that most generals and admirals never receive.
What Mauldin would have loved most, I believe, is the sight of the two guys who are keeping him company on that stamp.
The Real McDeal, 1 billion served
April 28th, 2010
7:22 am
I’ll see your Arizona immigration law and raise you a six-month jail term, to be served out picking peanuts or processing chicken. The peons! Trying to get a free ride off us hardly working citizens! We know how to deal with such folks. We have experience. Too bad we don’t need more bricks.
Normal
April 28th, 2010
7:23 am
BTW, I don’t know who wrote this, it wasn’t stated in the article.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2010
7:25 am
his deadline rendering, on the day President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, of the statue at the Lincoln Memorial slumped in grief, its head cradled in its hands.
Normal, you made me go look it up, because it had been entirely too long since I’d seen it.
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/usakennedyj2.jpg
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
7:26 am
G’morning, Normal …
remember yesterday I told you about the silly political parties???
well, the BBC thought you needed to learn more about them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8631815.stm
Normal
April 28th, 2010
7:28 am
http://billmauldin.com/
Normal
April 28th, 2010
7:33 am
USinUK,
Great article! We take our politics way too seriously. We need to take a lesson from the Brits!
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
7:35 am
Normal – I’m afraid to show the article to the Mister … he’d probably vote for the Zombie party!
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2010
7:36 am
Ooops, where are my manners. Good mornin’ everyone.
BTW, I don’t know who wrote this, it wasn’t stated in the article.
It was Bob Greene, a CNN contributor; this site appears to be the origin of the piece you posted:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/07/greene.mauldin.stamp/index.html
May I make a modest suggestion (and please excuse me if you’re already aware of this method)–if you’re unsure of the origin of a piece you’ve been emailed or happen upon in a link that contains uncited material?
Simply take copy a random-looking sentence that contains what might be a fairly unique phrase from the article–in my case, I took “Even better than that, the old soldiers began to show up just to sit with Mauldin”–
and here’s the important thing: when you paste it into a Google search field, be sure to put quotation marks around it. That way the search engine looks for specific instances of those words in that order. It really narrows it down quite a bit.
When I did it, the CNN story I linked above was at the top of the list; I see, however, that this story has made the rounds a bit, appearing 233 times. Which is swell, it deserves the exposure, and then some–now your post will be included in the search.
(I mention this because I seem to recall giving you a bit of a hard time a couple weeks back about another article you’d posted, and I felt like I was being a bit of a douchebag about it; I was cursing the darkness rather than lighting a candle, so to speak.)
itpdude
April 28th, 2010
7:41 am
Bookman, get real with the comparison to the US/Canada border. It’s not a rational comparison because there are not the same issues with the US/Can border as there are with the US/Mexico border. Is there a mass illegal immigration situation coming from Canada? Is there a situation with drug trafficking from Canada? Is there a situation with drug cartels at the US/Can border? No to all three.
Rip the law all you want. There is a rational basis for ripping the AZ law. It’s probably going to be kicked by the courts. But comparing the two borders is silliness. You’re better than that.
joe scarboro
April 28th, 2010
7:42 am
why do you bring my name up as to the right, you know after I went to work for CNBS I love Obama and decided I am a knee jurk liberal
Normal
April 28th, 2010
7:43 am
SFD,
Thanks,
Everything I have learned about computers has been from this blog and people like you. I learned about smilies, posting music/articles, and now this. I am glad you think enough of me to help me out. Feel free to correct me anytime…My wife alway does…
Filbert
April 28th, 2010
7:53 am
I am amazed at how far the comments and responses and retorts transgressed from the original subject. Folks, the AZ law is just that, a law. It has nothing to do with God or Jesus. It begins by targeting a criminal, which, hopefully, everyone can agree someone in this country “illegally” is. Our federal gov’t has done absolutely zilch to address this problem, and yes, it is a problem. Stories abound of U.S. citizens being unemployed, schools overcrowded and teachers being laid off/furloughed, hospital resources being used by the illegal uninsured. And you will never convince me that have 10-20% of the children in one of my daughter’s classes not being able to speak English (and yes, most likely necause they are here illegally) does not detract from my child’s education. Face it, illegals, love me or hate em, are not paying their fair share of the resources they consume. No income tax cause they’re paid in cash or have fake ids. Free healthcare cause hospitals cannot refuse to treat them. Education without paying property taxes because they don’t own property, and frequently (judging by the number of cars & trucks in front of house, etc. where they live) have multiple people or multiple families occupying a single residence. Sadly, since neither the Bush nor Obama administrations did anything about this problem (and if they did there would be cries of discrimination, racism, etc.) it look slike it’s up tot he states to take care of themselves. I don’t blame anyone for wanting to better their station in life, but sorry, breaking the law to do so gets no where with me.
FinnMcCool
April 28th, 2010
7:58 am
Typically, the lowest price for broadband in the United States, not counting promotions and bundled deals, costs an average of $35 a month for a measly 1 megabit per second connection. Twice this speed is available in Denmark and Canada for lower prices; more strikingly, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Sweden have broadband available for under $20 a month. Additionally, the fastest speeds in the United States are comparatively slow. The common top speed available for residential services in the Unites States is 50 Mbps (and costs $145 a month), while several nations have speeds available that are up to four times faster, for less than $60 a month.
http://www.slate.com/id/2252141/
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2010
7:59 am
Not-joe @ 7.42, who claims that Scarborough loves him some Preznit Obama:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/02/scarborough-stimulus-socialism/
MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough went off on a tear against President Obama’s proposed stimulus plan this morning, slamming tax credits for people who, according to him, “don’t pay taxes.” “It’s not even welfare!” he shouted, and accused Obama of trying to “buy off your constituents”:
SCARBOROUGH: You’re not going to get Republicans to line up and support tax cuts for people who don’t pay taxes. That’s taking you to a position now where you have the federal government — and this is very dangerous — just writing checks to people for doing nothing. It’s not even welfare. … If you want pure straight socialism, if you want to buy off people, do that.
Here’s some more of Joe Scar’s Obamaphilia:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/apr/15/joe-scarborough/heres-scoop-obama-has-worked-ice-cream-business-am/
“We’ve got a president who has never received a paycheck … he’s never received a check from a profitmaking business in his entire life, not one check. Think about it.”
FinnMcCool
April 28th, 2010
8:00 am
Sadly, since neither the Bush nor Obama administrations did anything about this problem (and if they did there would be cries of discrimination, racism, etc.)
yeah, where’s your hood, Filbert?
Curious Observer
April 28th, 2010
8:00 am
Bless you, Normal, for remembering Bill Mauldin.
Outhouse GoKart
April 28th, 2010
8:00 am
See fellow bloggers the term “ILLEGAL” is self-explanatory, however, its understandable that in these politically correct times some might forget such. If these ILLEGALS were legal then no such laws, enforcement, tracking would be necessary.
The bottomline is if one supports these ILLEGALS vs the law then a predjudiced is being shown towards the ILLEGALS. Its not the AZ citizenry who is consistently out of order…its the ILLEGALS, hence, the name.
Really now…it is that difficult to understand?
The Real McDeal, 1 billion served
April 28th, 2010
8:04 am
“I’ve got to get my crops out. Tha’ts my livelihood and I’ve got to think about that first.”
At first the farmers were concerned that the prisoners wouldn’t work as hard as the illegal immigrants they are replacing. They also had concerns about having the prisoners around their families.
But only low-risk prisoners are allowed to work in the fields; sex offenders and inmates sentenced to life without parole are not permitted to participate in the program. And the prisoners are constantly supervised by a prison guard.
The farmers pay the Department of Corrections $9.60 per hour per inmate, most of which goes toward paying for the guards, transportation and lunch. The inmates themselves earn $4 a day, which is nearly seven times the 60 cents a day they can earn in prison. And the money they earn will be waiting for them once they’ve finished serving their sentences.
The work proved so hard, many of the women dropped out quickly. But most of those who have toughed it out say it’s well worth it.
“It’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do in my life, said Kaedra, a drug offender who is working in Pisciotta’s onion field.
Anyway, the Deal that I am proposing is that we fine these illegal immigrants an amount that they cannot afford to pay and then we offer them a chance to work off their fine in the field or processing plant and then once they work it off we release them and re-arrest them a few minutes later for being here illegally and then fine them and… the peons will be right back out there working for the same folks that they were before only now they’ll be doing it for less and the voters will be pacified because we’re taking the illegal immigrants off the streets so they cannot take our voter’s jobs and they’ll vote us back in power, I mean in office, and life is good. What a Deal.
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
8:05 am
OGK – FWIW, my problem with the bill is, as I stated above, that it will become a Lawsuit Bonanza!! talk about opening the floodgates – if Mr. Joe Sixpack doesn’t think that gummint is doing enough, he can sue the bastids … oh, yeah … that’s some GREAT legislation, there!!!
(not to mention, don’t police have ENOUGH on their plates without turning them into INS agents, as well)
USinUK
April 28th, 2010
8:07 am
“Anyway, the Deal that I am proposing is that we fine these illegal immigrants an amount that they cannot afford to pay and then we offer them a chance to work off their fine in the field or processing plant”
hooray!!! bring back indentured servitude!!!
I propose that we fine the HOLY CRAP out of the people who knowingly HIRE illegal immigrants. if the jobs dry up, the majority of the illegal immigrant traffic will, too.
(and I do mean KNOWINGLY hire – if they can show a good faith effort that they obtained the documents that made their employees seem legal, then no fine)
FinnMcCool
April 28th, 2010
8:08 am
Every year, more than 6,000 Americans are killed on the job. More than 6 million are injured, at least half of them seriously. Another 60,000 die from their injuries or from cancer, lung and heart ailments and other occupational diseases caused by exposure to toxic substances.
Think of that: An average of at least 16 workers killed and nearly 5,500 badly hurt on each and every day, plus 135 or more dying daily from job-related illness. The financial toll also is high: More than $3 billion in health care expenses and other costs to employers and workers, such as lost wages and production.
http://www.truthout.org/a-fitting-memorial-labors-dead-and-injured58924
The Real McDeal, 1 billion served
April 28th, 2010
8:14 am
I propose that we fine the HOLY CRAP out of the people who knowingly HIRE illegal immigrants. if the jobs dry up, the majority of the illegal immigrant traffic will, too.
(and I do mean KNOWINGLY hire – if they can show a good faith effort that they obtained the documents that made their employees seem legal, then no fine)
Nahhhhh! What benefit would that be for me.
Outhouse GoKart
April 28th, 2010
8:15 am
“The financial toll also is high: More than $3 billion in health care expenses and other costs to employers and workers, such as lost wages and production.”
3 Billion isnt that high considering the employers WC insurance carrier pays for much of this. And think about this…many WC injuries are due to employee stupidity or workplace guidelines being ignored.
Occupational diseases are a horse of a different color.
Morrus
April 28th, 2010
8:32 am
Vote out the incumbents and start over
Gale
April 28th, 2010
8:42 am
This certainly was a busy topic. I haven’t a hope of catching up and still get my work done. I do think I will go searching for southern AZ papers to see what the locals think of the law. My partner’s dad lives on the southern border of New Mexico and they have problems with border runners there too. I accept this could be unconstitutional, but the situation is unusual. Also, on the issue of legal immigration, I agree that we need to shorten the path to citizenship for those who want to legally immigrate. It takes far too long. Illegal immigration, on the other hand, should not be tolerated at all.
Steve
April 28th, 2010
8:46 am
Polls indicate 70% of Arizona citizens (2/3 Hispanic) favor this new law.
The sad part, Jay, is that Arizona had to take these steps because the politicians in DC (Repub & Dem) won’t do their job to protect our borders. They have hemmed, hawed, and done nothing about this issue for decades.
Time for someone with cojones to step up to the plate. Good for Arizona.
Get Real
April 28th, 2010
8:52 am
Everybody’s griping about Arizona doing something that Obozo and the Looney Tunes in Congress won’t do and that is to do something about Illegals. Illegals come into America and commit crimes and just disappear back across the border. No one knows anything about them because they are undocumented. Terrorists could being anything across the border and no one would stop them. Drugs and brought across the border every day! Everybody talks about profiling and violation of privacy. But, Roswell cops have to make 25 DUI arrests per year or they are put on another shift, Traffic light cameras violate privacy, the City of Morrow sent out tickets for running a red light to about a hundred people that were in a FUNERAL Procession! I have to show my ID if I want to buy alcohol to prove I’m legal age!!! INS raided construction sites where hispanics were working and usually Texas license plates were on the vehicles but Obozo has fixed that problem by killing the economy even more since he has been Prezbo! Build a fence on the border, patrol the border, arrest and deport all crossing! Not a rocket science project!
Gale
April 28th, 2010
8:54 am
I’ll be real interested to see how many AZ citizens object to being asked for proof of residence. Somehow, I didn’t think it would become open season on Hispanics with so many of the citizens of AZ being Hispanic.
DWTOO
April 28th, 2010
9:01 am
Know how to rid this country of illegal immigrants? Don’t hire them. Fine the companies that do hire them. Enforce the laws on the books. Problem is then these companies would have to pay someone more money and the richer folks amongst us would have to pay their maids a real wage. Can’t have that. Ruben Navarette has a good column that mirrors Jay’s and is good, realistic reading.
EJ
April 28th, 2010
9:05 am
Every time I buy alcohol I must show ID. Why? The government has convinced retailers that there is “reasonable suspicion” that I am under 21.
Why is it that so many of us are held to different standards? Why am I, a law-abiding US citizen constantly forced to submit to examinations for what are my rights, while those that are here illegally are being protected by the elected officials who were sworn to uphold the laws already on the books?
Frankly, the most of us are tired of the double-standard, and even more tired of paying for it.
Get Real
April 28th, 2010
9:12 am
I once said, “We will bury you,” and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Nikita Khrushchev
Watch Scout’s video and you will understand what Khrushev was talking about!
Hmmmmmmm
April 28th, 2010
9:26 am
Get Real
It’s sad but VERY true……..
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 28th, 2010
9:33 pm
MAY DAY: HISPANICS PLAN RALLIES IN 70 CITIES
Kewl, while we got them all in one place, let’s line up the buses and point them towards Hispanica.
Buh bye, y’all.