A few conservative voices criticize Arizona law
Arizona’s draconian new law regarding illegal immigration has drawn harsh criticism from many on the left, including President Obama. Most egregious is a provision that requires local law enforcement to check documentation of those they suspect might be in this country illegally, and to detain those who cannot produce such documentation.
In other words, if you look, sound or act as though you might be of Hispanic origin, you risk being accosted by law enforcement officers every time you venture into public. It’s a vast expansion of government power, yet most of those on the right who have claimed to be outraged by imaginary assaults on liberty by the Obama administration have been silent about this very real intrusion.
Instead, we get nonsense such as this tweet from Erick Erickson of CNN and Red State.com, who asks: “If Canadians were crossing illegally N2 Arizona, no one would be playing the race card. Can AZ not respond just b/c of the illegals’ race?”
Given the porous U.S.-Canadian border, I’m sure that there are a good number of Canadians in Arizona without proper papers, especially in the wintertime. And I very much doubt that they will be accosted by Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Phoenix on the street and tossed into the county jail. So yes, race indeed plays a very large role, and it’s ludicrous to pretend otherwise.
However, there are exceptions to the right’s silence, and they should be noted. Former U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough, conservative host of “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, condemns the provision in no uncertain words:
“It does offend me that when one out of every three citizens in the state of Arizona are Hispanics, and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they’re walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they’re walking their child to school, and they’re an American citizen or a legal, legal immigrant, can now put a target on their back and make them think every time they walk out of their door, they may have to prove something. I will tell you that is unAmerican. It is unacceptable, and it’s unAmerican.”
Marco Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants and a conservative Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Florida, has expressed similar concerns:
“States certainly have the right to enact policies to protect their citizens, but Arizona’s policy shows the difficulty and limitations of states trying to act piecemeal to solve what is a serious federal problem. From what I have read in news reports, I do have concerns about this legislation. While I don’t believe Arizona’s policy was based on anything other than trying to get a handle on our broken borders, I think aspects of the law, especially that dealing with ‘reasonable suspicion,’ are going to put our law enforcement officers in an incredibly difficult position. It could also unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens. Throughout American history and throughout this administration we have seen that when government is given an inch it takes a mile.”
We need a rational approach to immigration policy in this country, although many of us would disagree on what might constitute such a policy. However, a law that presumes that a third of the residents of Arizona are here illegally unless and until they can prove otherwise — surely we can agree that is excessive and, as Scarborough calls it, unAmerican.
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394 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
7:16 pm
Yesiree, when I want unslanted polling data my first stop is 538 dot com…
/sarc
jewcowboy,
Not that any of you care, but the legislation clearly says there has to be some other lawful contact so there’s your protection.
Heck, just the other day I was confronted by the Duluth police along with a few thousand other drivers as they made us wait in long lines of idling cars to show a driver’s license. Should I be calling them NAZI’s by now?
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
7:18 pm
RW….. working for a client when you are hired by a law firm is one thing…working directly as “of counsel” does set a different standard. Those Gitmo attorneys were retained by clients, they were not employees.
md
April 27th, 2010
7:19 pm
“lawful contact”
The way I heard that explained, is nothing changes from the way business is already done, except in cases where there is no documentation.
Such as a traffic stop. Every one of us are asked for drivers license and insurance. Out there, don’t have drivers license and insurance, you best have something. And if you are driving without a license….not too bright to begin with.
stands for decibels
April 27th, 2010
7:20 pm
RW, about 538–they did manage to miss Indiana going for Obama in 2008, so I guess they’re kinda dodgy.
theyeshaveit
April 27th, 2010
7:23 pm
ken R said, “Jay,
Because our pathetic Gov’t doesn’t have the cajones to deal with illegals the Arizona Governor did.
What she did is to finally bring this problem to Washington, it will be interesting to see what, if anything our miserable politicians do.”
Republicans want to have their cake and eat it, too.
Wake up, ken. Arizona’s republicans (and other republicans) claim that they had to ram through SB1070 because the Democrats were dragging their feet on immigration. So, what do you say when today the AP reports that Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, threatened to withhold support (on climate change legislation) if Senate Democratic leaders push ahead first with an immigration bill.?
I say it’s the epitome of hypocrisy. The party of no once again jumps into non action.
stands for decibels
April 27th, 2010
7:24 pm
Anyway, pleasant evening to all. Be excellent to one another.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
7:24 pm
sfb,
I was just poking at you. I never go to 538, but HotAir references them a lot too so they must be pretty decent if they can appeal to that broad an audience.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
7:27 pm
Keep,
The guy is a law professor at the University of Missouri. You’re going to have to come up with something better than guilt by association if you want to convince me he’s some wild eyed racist.
md
April 27th, 2010
7:28 pm
Interesting how so many Georgians know what’s best for AZ, yet none of us live there. I read just today on these boards that majority rules – must only apply when one is in the majority.
Scooter
April 27th, 2010
7:28 pm
I just hope some of you folks here are wanting to defend our constitution and not people that are here illegally. No matter what other country they are from.
godless heathen
April 27th, 2010
7:29 pm
Jay loves having the government force you to buy a product, but calls it draconian if the government asks you for proof of citizenship.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
7:32 pm
gh,
Good point. If Obamacare goons come asking for our health insurance papers we can just tell them they don’t even know if we’re citizens and walk away.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 27th, 2010
7:33 pm
I was once stopped in by the GSP and asked for my license, which I provided. Then he asked my passenger for their license. When I told him they didn’t have one, he was quite incredulous, “You don’t have a driver’s license. I said, “Well you don’t really need one to ride in a car, when you aren’t driving do you?” It was all downhill from there.
TaxPayer
April 27th, 2010
7:33 pm
A thread where NIF’s rants are appropriate and he’s not around to warn us.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 27th, 2010
7:36 pm
It’s a vast expansion of government power, yet most of those on the right who have claimed to be outraged by imaginary assaults on liberty by the Obama administration have been silent about this very real intrusion.
What about the liberty of people not to be kidnapped or murdered in their own homes by illegal aliens?
What about the vast government power to enforce the borders that was in place before Arizona took matters into their own hands, that the obozo Federales refuses to enforce?
Why are you always against the American people and for the scumbags, Bookman?
Just askin…
Scooter
April 27th, 2010
7:39 pm
It was all downhill from there
I hope you learned your lesson.
Energizer Bunny
April 27th, 2010
7:41 pm
What’s all the fuss about. They just stopped in for a little “pick-me-up” before they were on their way again.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
7:41 pm
Hillbilly
I don’t drive. I use my passport for primary identification. I have a Georgia ID card, but when asked for identification I hold it “in reserve.” The demand is always for a driver’s license. I could go and get you ten of those under ten different names in short order, but that passport is the most official document available. Yet I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had it refused and the Georgia ID accepted. It’s another example of down the rabbit hole in such matters as this under discussion…
Bud Wiser
April 27th, 2010
7:44 pm
If Obowo The Liar wasn’t so busy with his socialist agenda, and doing the job he and the feds are actuall supposed to do, and that is protect the borders of the US, then Arizona would not have to take individual action.
Only ill informed, ignorant morons who cry “racism” at every policy they do not like are objecting (did I just describe the garden variety Democrat???). Why not instead make positive suggestions to deal with a serious problem, instead of just ignoring it like GW Bush, and now Obowo, and hope it goes away….. unless you do not see it as a problem, but a political opportunity?
If you are one of those, then you truly are a fool as well as blind to reality. If it really is so nice in Arizona, then go buy a farm on the border, then give an educated opinion.
@@
April 27th, 2010
7:44 pm
‘Ya know Keep, I’m so glad you brought up The Pioneer Fund/Foundation…whatever.
They’re linked to some of left’s favorite causes.
Of all the groups that Wilson supports, one stands out as unlike all the rest: the Federation for American Immigration Reform. FAIR, as it is commonly known, is the most important organization fueling the backlash against immigration and stands to gain almost $1 million from Wilson’s largesse.
Starts with Wilson, then to Tanton and back to Wilson again.
Wilson is an avowed atheist and anti-catholic.
His support for the organization may seem surprising, considering the liberal recipients of some of his other contributions. Although most of the groups he supports have no obvious political agenda, Wilson has given generously to the ACLU Foundation ($2.3 million in 2006 alone) and the Drug Policy Alliance ($800,000 in 2007), which advocates for an end to the “War on Drugs,” improved drug-treatment and education programs, and an easing or repeal of drug laws, especially those governing marijuana. A friend, Roger Hertog, was quoted in a recent Journal of Philanthropy profile describing Wilson as “the most politically incorrect person I have ever met.”
Apparently, Wilson’s interest in FAIR is based on the view that the supposed environmental benefits of ending immigration outweigh any negatives associated with FAIR and its founder. In fact, Tanton came to the immigration restriction movement via very similar concerns about population and the environment (he was an early activist with the Sierra Club and strongly supported Planned Parenthood). In addition, FAIR has run advertisements in recent years — many of them in “progressive” publications aimed at the political left — suggesting that halting immigration is the best way to conserve the environment.
From your own Southern Poverty Law Center.
‘Ya just never know, do ‘ya?
I checked in on some conservative blogs, and they are very much aware of The Pioneer Fund/Foundation…whatever. They don’t have much use for ‘em.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
7:46 pm
In case any of you are unaware, both Cobb County and Gwinnett County already have a similar ordinance/policy in place by which thousands of illegals have been deported. I know. because my former tenant was one of them.
“And yes I use this blog as a teaching tool and as they want to know more”
Geez, josef, nothing like putting a burden like that on us…..
Tales from the Dark Side of the Moon
April 27th, 2010
7:47 pm
On our high school’s “senior night”, we were out gathering signs and hauling them back to the high school for planting in the front lawn when we were pulled over by one of the local cops. The first thing he asked was, “Have you boys been drinking?” I responded with, “Why Ossifer, it’s against the law to drink and drive,” while grinning profusely from ear to ear just to make sure it was not taken the wrong way. Fortunately, it didn’t go down hill from there. Of course, it did not hurt to know the cop either.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
7:47 pm
And for tonight’s musical kickoff, what song could be more apropos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9byfevggn0
Del
April 27th, 2010
7:48 pm
Dajingo@7:15pm,
People of color are certainly alright. I’ve served and fought along with many, something I doubt you’ve ever done. If your talking about folks of any color who see themselves as American citizens, I’m on board with that. If you see “people of color” as being people of color, first and foremost and Americans last, than I’m not on board. If you are of that later group than I can tell you that you and your kind just don’t pack gear to go up against what you’ve referred to as “our kind”.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
7:49 pm
““Why Ossifer, it’s against the law to drink and drive,” while grinning profusely from ear to ear just to make sure it was not taken the wrong way.”
Darkside–Little piece of advice for you: Don’t try that gambit in Jersey.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
7:59 pm
BRNO
“Geez, josef, nothing like putting a burden like that on us…..”
Little pitchers have big ears…
Help me out here…are ye who posted the Viking cats doing “Immigrant Song” ? I can’t find it now and I thought it, too, might be appropriate…
Soothsayer
April 27th, 2010
8:02 pm
The owners of the West Atlas rig in the Timor Sea will today again try and plug the well which has been leaking oil and gas for the past 10 weeks.
The rig has also been on fire for the past two days and last night it was a giant burning beacon, with flames and smoke reaching hundreds of metres into the night sky.
One side effect from the fierce fire is that it is burning off a lot of the oil that was previously leaking from the well into the sea.
Today PTTEP Australasia is hoping to use its West Triton rig to pump a heavy density mud mixture into the leaking well today.
The company’s chief financial officer, Jose Martins, says the fire is out of control.
History truly does repeat itself.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:06 pm
“Help me out here…are ye who posted the Viking cats doing “Immigrant Song” ? I can’t find it now and I thought it, too, might be appropriate…”
Not me, I generally don’t go for parody videos. Excellent thematic selection, however:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCvMKcNJCAY
Midori
April 27th, 2010
8:06 pm
anyone here play Mafia Wars on Facebook?
Midori
April 27th, 2010
8:08 pm
Only ill informed, ignorant morons who cry “racism” at every policy they do not like….
Gee.
Sorta like YOU, Bud???
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:09 pm
josef:
RW’s Viking Kitties.
I will never misplace them again.
It’s just a little pond, josef.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 27th, 2010
8:11 pm
Scooter @ 7:39
Well, I wound up getting a ticket and a fine but let’s just say I got my money’s worth.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:12 pm
“Apparently, Wilson’s interest in FAIR is based on the view that the supposed environmental benefits of ending immigration outweigh any negatives associated with FAIR and its founder.”
I’d like to put attention back on the link that Scout provided at 5:51. It’s a bit long, but lot of food for thought–literally since the presenter uses jars of gumballs to visualize demonstrate how futile our immigration policy is in terms of easing world suffering in any way. I strongly suggest everyone take a look if you already haven’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:13 pm
Bruno:
Not me, I generally don’t go for parody videos.
Too bad for you ’cause we women LOVE RW’s “Viking Kitties”.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:14 pm
dajngo:
These fit you perfectly …………….
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams
“For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:15 pm
“Well, I wound up getting a ticket and a fine but let’s just say I got my money’s worth.”
I was with a guy once who mouthed off to a cop–he got the stick and a pair of bracelets for his troubles.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:16 pm
“Too bad for you ’cause we women LOVE RW’s “Viking Kitties”.
So that’s where I’m going wrong……
Right about now, any type of kitty would be acceptable for me.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:18 pm
@@
at 8:09
THANK YOU!!!! I love that video… ISH
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:22 pm
“You can imagine if you are an Hispanic American in Arizona, your great grandparents may have been there before Arizona was even a state, but now suddenly if you don’t have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re gonna be harassed,” Obama said. “That’s something that could potentially happen. That’s not the right way to go.”
What DRIVEL from the Chief Law Enforcement officer of the United States!
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:24 pm
I will say that I’ve gotten a lot of mileage with the ladies due to my rabbit, Sweetie. Especially the latina ladies. Makes ‘em think I’ve got a soft side.
joan
April 27th, 2010
8:25 pm
What is a border for if not to be a boundary? If invaders breach your borders you should just shoot them. The federal law requires they carry papers, and Arizona isn’t any more draconian than that. The scary thing about this is that Arizona wants to enforce the law–something the feds don’t have the guts to do. The feds would rather legalize these low/no income people so them can become Dem voters and keep their sorry butts in Congress/whitehouse.
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:26 pm
THANK YOU!!!! I love that video…
Well of course you do, josef. You get a Mother’s Day card every year.
(IWH)
Ace
April 27th, 2010
8:26 pm
If I was a Mexican, I would call in sick on May 5th.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:27 pm
Breaking News !
Headline: “Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told a Senate hearing Tuesday that unmanned aerial drones will soon fly through Texas skies!”
Oh, the horror ………. what rights are being violated watching people as they cross the border. Call out the ACLU !!!
joan
April 27th, 2010
8:28 pm
Just makes me want to move to Arizona.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:29 pm
RW
Well…the video was originally from you–would you think me hyperventillating if I showed it to my kids?
BRUNO
Speaking of our song “A Family Affair” and tonight’s thread…wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall at the McCain house tonight?
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:29 pm
Bruno:
You’re 8:24 is tempting, but I ain’ta gonna touch it.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
April 27th, 2010
8:31 pm
George Will and I think at a level considerably higher than Bookman does, just sayin…
It is passing strange for federal officials, including the president, to accuse Arizona of irresponsibility while the federal government is refusing to fulfill its responsibility to control the nation’s borders.
Yes it tis.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 27th, 2010
8:32 pm
Bruno @ 8:12
I saw that once, quite a while back. It’s very interesting.
Finn McCool
April 27th, 2010
8:32 pm
It’s not about being lazy, it’s about what you think your time is worth. I wouldn’t work an hour for anyone paying below $XX an hour WITH benefits.
No benefits? My price would go up to $XX an hour.
As long as there are employers who insist on paying a non-living wage with zero benefits, you will have immigrants and illegals lining up to take those jobs. And that, my friends, is why this problem will never go away. No one is going to pay anyone more than $15 an hour to clean out their garage or mow their grass.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:33 pm
What’s the “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” to surveill these people walking over the border? Many could be legals or American citizens just going for a walk.
This is discrimination? Racist! Are we “droning Canada” ? Where will this stop?
Obama is guilty of violation border crossers rights ! Stop this “misguided” approach now before it’s too late !!!
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:34 pm
joan
Take I-20 west…
BRUNO
You DO have a soft side and you speak Spanish…what more besides a green card could she ask for?
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:35 pm
DANG! They make $15.00 an hour!!?!!
Geez! I’m poor even when I am getting paid.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:35 pm
Finn @ 8:32
And that’s it in a nutshell…
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
8:36 pm
Del @ 7:13
We have resources that are being over-utilized when it comes to immigration. We’re sending CBP Officers to the Southern Border left and right to help out there. Border Patrol is using all kinds of technology to augment the Agents they have on the ground. Nothing short of shutting down any and all crossing into our borders will have any better effect on stemming the flow of illegal immigrants to this country than if ALL employers quit hiring them.
A stray animal will not stay around your house if you don’t feed it. If you begin to feed it, it will never leave because it knows where it can get a source of food without having to do an exhaustive and/or dangerous search for it.
Unless we deputized all eligible citizens to become ICE Agents, ICE will not have the manpower necessary to round up all illegals and arrange for deportation.
Working from inside the government to stem the flow of illegal aliens into this country, I can tell you that the government is not the solution to the problem. The business community has far more power than any/all government agencies. When will the business community stand up and say “Enough is enough!!”?
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
8:36 pm
Why are the Viking Kitties being called a parody video? It’s the real song.
josef,
Only if you don’t editorialize about the name of the song and how you thinks it makes the Arizonans nazis.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:42 pm
“Why are the Viking Kitties being called a parody video? It’s the real song.”
I used the word “parody” to describe the video only because I couldn’t think of any other succinct way to refer to the pairing of a humorous video with a non-humorous song. I was only referring to the video, not the song itself.
“what more besides a green card could she ask for? ”
Green paper with former President’s pictures on them to fund their plastic surgeries.
Ace
April 27th, 2010
8:43 pm
Why not just give american employers a period of time to verify its employees. Let them check the papers, close em for a week if they have a illegal worker. All you “I’ll show my papers that work all the time” folks can show your papers. Come back in a week for a recheck, find another close em’ down 2 weeks. Why make the taxpayers do the leg work?
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:44 pm
Southern Comfort :
Excellent points but that is only one prong of a four prong effort that MUST be enforced:
1) Seal the Border ………. SEAL IT !
2) Make it so costly/prohibitive for businesses that they just can’t afford to “play the game”.
3) Take away all economic governmental incentives (excluding temporary emergency care).
4) Conduct MAJOR ongoing enforcement efforts to return illegals to their country of origin.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
8:45 pm
Green paper with former President’s pictures on them to fund their plastic surgeries
Bruno, you must have seen some of the people that come off flights from Central and South America.
kayaker 71
April 27th, 2010
8:45 pm
“Draconian” indeed!!! This is the same law that is in the Federal wordage, the same law that is already on the books in most states in this Republic. Arizona is just enforcing it. When did it become “draconian” to enforce laws that the Federal government and the states have passed. It is only “draconian” when it applies to those who would cross our borders illegally. This is not illegal immigration, this is invasion. And the border states are fed up!! Bozo and his gang don’t have the real balls to protect our country against invasion from another sovereign country and Bookman is moaning about “draconian” measures. Someone should tell him that the only thing about this whole mess is that the Congress of the US and the Presidents , Bush, Clinton and Bozo didn’t enforce our laws. They let us down. Now it has gone so far as to become almost too big to fix. And we have the politicians to blame for not doing their jobs.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:47 pm
RW
I keep telling you and you don’t seem to want to believe me on this…I do not editorialize in the classroom…that’s THEIR job, not mine…and when did I call Arizonans nazis? I simply made the point HERE not there that if we are not careful we will find ourselves sliding down that slope…
Mick
April 27th, 2010
8:47 pm
The bottom line is that the federal gov’t is derelict in its duty to protect our borders. As a nation of laws no one group of people has the right to enter this country illegally. We need to get out of all our current wars and seal our borders now before its too late. It’s a national security issue and both the repubs and dems have failed miserably.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
8:48 pm
“2) Make it so costly/prohibitive for businesses that they just can’t afford to “play the game”.
Am I the only one who flashes to this video whenever Scout puffs up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0EYtljBuwY
md
April 27th, 2010
8:49 pm
Funny that I have a drivers license and a passport card that must be shown when asked, yet many here somehow think it should not apply to those here illegally. Isn’t that a bit backward?
hryder
April 27th, 2010
8:50 pm
Please, Hispanic is a language group, not a racial group. There are born and bred citizens of Spain, Mexico, and most other predominantly Spanish language speaking countries that are black(negroid), white(caucasian), and yellow(mongoloid). Another point after being a resident of Douglas, Arizona and cities in New Mexico for several years, and visiting annually for several months since being a state citizen elsewhere, the vast majority of my contacts/friends who are born or naturalized U.S. citizens and registered voters are opposed to any type of amnesty for illegal aliens. Those who personally or whose family followed all the legal directives to become a citizen are especially adamant regarding this point. Incidentally, Douglas’s major border crossing appears very similar to the Berlin Wall except the barrier is a very high cyclone fence with a ditch on one side.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:52 pm
kayaker 71 and Mick: Good words !
Bruno: Does this fit you?
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm
The crossing at Douglas, AZ is to keep people out; the Berlin Wall was to keep people in. That’s a large difference.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm
hryder :
Careful ……… these liberals on here really get hot about your type of logic.
Mick
April 27th, 2010
8:53 pm
**Funny that I have a drivers license and a passport card that must be shown when asked,**
Also, I am a citizen born and raised here and have been required to have my fingerprints on file for certain employment assignments.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
8:54 pm
SoCo
You and I may appear to be on different sides of this issue, but I think we are in agreement that the problem is not the need of “new” laws, but the enforcement of the ones already there (and they are within keeping of those of a civilized state) and that our federal government has simply not been willing to allocate the resources to those arms of the state charged with the enforcement of those laws…
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
8:55 pm
Scout
#1) Not gonna happen. The business community would never allow it to happen.
CBP “Twin Goals” – Anti-Terrorism and Facilitating Legitimate Trade and Travel
“For the first time in our nation’s history, one agency has the lone responsibility of protecting our borders. As the single, unified border agency, CBP’s mission is vitally important to the protection of America and the American people. CBP’s priority mission is preventing terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, while also facilitating the flow of legitimate trade and travel,” continued Commissioner Bonner.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/about/mission/cbp.xml
#2) Pro-business politicians will not allow that to happen.
#3) Businesses who fund those mentioned in #2 will not let that happen.
#4) Fiscally conservative citizens & politicians will not allow that to happen because it would cost Billions to do that.
RW-(the original)
April 27th, 2010
8:55 pm
josef,
I don’t doubt you about the classroom, but when you know you have students reading here and you come in with such a strident and frankly wrongheaded opinion about the law you’re doing the same thing.
There are protections in the law and the law doesn’t do much if anything that isn’t already on the books at the federal level. The feds just refuse to enforce the laws that exist now. I also agree with SoCo that the emphasis should be on employers which is also well covered in the Arizona law.
Del
April 27th, 2010
8:56 pm
Back to the original topic with one last comment and then I have some work to do before taps. If I faced the life threatening issues to my family and to a much lesser extent the property trespass/ defilement that those ranchers on our Mexican border are facing then I would utilize so called draconian measures as well. Only my draconian measures would exceed far beyond the recent Arizona legislation passed and beyond the imaginations of many on this blog. Hopefully, this action by the state of Arizona will be a wake up call to all Americans that this invasion of illegal’s from our Southern border is a non-trivial issue.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:57 pm
josef:
……….. and I would add that when our government arbitrarily abdicates is authority to enforce the law in one area ……….. it has lost its moral authority to enforce it in any area ………. also known as “equal protection under the law.”
@@
April 27th, 2010
8:57 pm
Let’s get something straight. The failure to protect America’s southern border has been a bipartisan effort. Democrats want more illegal immigrants in the country because they are a potential source of votes they hope will contribute to a permanent Democratic majority. Republicans and their donors want more illegal immigrants in America because they are a source of cheap labor. Once you understand this, you can ignore much of the talk about “human rights.”
If a state, or nation, has laws it will not enforce for political reasons, it mocks both the law and politics, to say nothing of the cultural order. If the language of laws has no meaning other than what lawmakers assign to them after a law is enacted, it is proof that we have arrived in a kind of legal “Wonderland” in which Alice is told by Humpty Dumpty, “When I use a word … it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” To which Alice responds, “The question is … whether you can make words mean so many different things.” Politicians constantly try.–Cal Thomas
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:58 pm
Del:
Fix bayonets !
Scout
April 27th, 2010
8:59 pm
@@
Which is why Americans have lost faith in their government ……….. and that does not bode well for the future. Congress is viewed with suspicion and even contempt.
getalife
April 27th, 2010
9:00 pm
Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.
Bad karma.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:02 pm
getalife:
Drivel not Debate.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:02 pm
Mick @ 8:47
Precisely.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:04 pm
pusillanimous petty politicians
Discussing rights and responsibilities with the family – Marshall Democrat-News « Better Off Training
April 27th, 2010
9:04 pm
[...] A few conservative voices criticize Arizona law – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) the state of Arizona are Hispanics, and you have now put a target on the back of one of three citizens who, if they’re walking their dog around a neighborhood, if they’re walking their child to school, and they’re an American citizen or a [...]
waz up arizona?
April 27th, 2010
9:05 pm
scared some mexicans are going to steal back the state that you stole from the mexicans
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
9:06 pm
“May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
Scout–I registered with the Selective Service at 18, but was never called. Make of that what you will…….Hopefully you are self-honest enough to recognize that you are on the over-zealous side at times, e.g. your scheme by which defense attorneys should simultaneously be agents of the state. I wouldn’t be surprised if you opposed habeus corpus as well in your black-and-white world of good and evil.
Del
April 27th, 2010
9:07 pm
SoCo@8:36pm,
I certainly agree with going after employers who employ illegal’s out of greed for some survival for others. I don’t agree with your assertion that we have used up our resource. I’m not talking about only man power, I’m talking about about refusal to enforce law because of PC vote pandering which is treason in my opinion.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm
Bruno :
The real world vs. classroom philosophy is always difficult for some to understand. You can be excused for that.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm
My problem is that people try to paint the “illegal immigrant/alien” problem as being one that only comes from the southern border. No one wants to discuss people who enter the U.S. on a valid visa and never leave. Not to mention those who come from countries that don’t require a visa and never leave. A little known “illegal immigrant” is one that enters as a “tourist” and accepts employment while here. Even if that person leaves before their time alloted is up, they’re an “illegal immigrant” in the eyes of the law.
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
9:10 pm
“Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.”
So, I guess in your Lib Dreamworld:
(1) Only conservatives are bigoted.
(2) Your good karma as a Lib will protect you from ill treatment if and when minority rule becomes the norm.
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:11 pm
RW
“strident and wrongheaded” are your opinions…someone else may disagree or, more than likely, be totally disinterested…that is the nature of this forum and, should any of the little b*ggers be tuning in (and if so, you little miscreants, why aren’t you in bed and have you done your homework?) they are well aware of that…the reason I use this as a resource is to teach them what freedom of speech and expression are in practice–not just words on a page to be memorized for bubble in on the CRCT…
And I don’t “know” I have students reading here…I don’t “send” them to this blog. I don’t even name it. And if any of them DO come here, they’ve been discreet in not saying so!
Scout @ 8:57
I would agree with that…
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:11 pm
Bruno:
P.S. If you are 37 or under they will still take you ………………..
)
@@
April 27th, 2010
9:12 pm
Scout:
You’d be surprised at how many times friends of mine have voted incorrectly on a ballot referendum. They’ll ask how I voted, and I’ll tell ‘em. They’ll say “YOU VOTED FOR THAT?”
I’ll say “No, YOU voted for that.”
It’s all in the way they word ‘em. It verges on criminality.
Del
April 27th, 2010
9:13 pm
Enter your comments here
Bruno
April 27th, 2010
9:14 pm
“The real world vs. classroom philosophy is always difficult for some to understand. You can be excused for that.”
Sorry, pal, I live in the same real world you do. To be honest, I find your brand of religiously driven self-righteousness to be a liability, not an asset.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:14 pm
@@ I hear you …………. and you are correct.
getalife
April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm
Yeah, w committed treason and beck says he was a progressive.
Southern Comfort
April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm
Del
I don’t see refusal to enforce law from where I sit. I see people turned around every day because they’ve either violated immigration laws in the past, or are coming to violate laws in the present.
Scout
April 27th, 2010
9:16 pm
Bruno:
You might live in it ………. but I doubt you ever risked you life in it year after year. Big difference.
“For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.” Author Unknown
Don’t feel too bad. I played sandlot football but I never played in the NFL. Big difference.
mike
April 27th, 2010
9:17 pm
“Some cons realize they will be the minority soon and don’t want to be treated like they treated minorities.”
LOL. Nice to see that some things never change. Nobody tell getalife what is happening on planet Earth. I want it to be a surprise in Nov. LOL
josef nix
April 27th, 2010
9:19 pm
SoCo
As you can imagine, this was much the topic in the teacher’s lounge. I pretty much (believe it or not) just sat back and listened. One of my colleagues is from Panama. Her comment was, “well, there’s progress. I never thought I’d live to see the day my black skin would protect me in profiling!” She says that whenever her husband is stopped for driving while black, she’s told by him, “keep your mouth shut” since she has a light Spanish accent!