Are state Republicans about to take plunge into the absurd?
I swear, Georgia Republicans have mashed their “stupid pedal” to the floorboard and it’s gotten stuck there.
First they tried to pass a constitutional amendment in the state Senate to declare that no Georgian could be mandated by government to buy health insurance, as if Georgia law could somehow supercede federal law. The amendment failed.
(The amendment was sponsored by state Sen. Judson Hill, who three years earlier had introduced legislation that would have — wait for it — forced Georgians to buy health insurance, even giving state officials the power to garnish wages of those who refused. At the time, Hill attributed the legislation to House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is now one of the sternest critics of “Obamacare”. In other words, mandated health insurance was a good idea until it became part of the Democratic health-reform bill, at which point it became unconstitutional and the most dire threat to American liberty since General Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.)
Frustrated in the Senate, Republicans then tried to pass a similar constitutional amendment in the House.
They failed. Again.
Meanwhile, Gov. Sonny Perdue has been stamping his feet like a petulant three-year-old, insisting that Attorney General Thurbert Baker enlist Georgia in a lawsuit filed by 14 other states challenging the constitutionality of the health-reform bill. Baker refused, citing its cost and the exceedingly small chance of success.
“While I understand that the new law is the subject of ongoing debate here in Georgia and around the nation, I do not believe that Georgia has a viable legal claim against the United States,” Baker wrote Perdue. “Considering our state’s current severe budgetary crisis, with vital services like education and law enforcement being cut deeply, I cannot justify a decision to initiate expensive and time-consuming litigation that I believe has
no legal merit.”
Baker’s right. I’m no lawyer, but I’ve read my share of lawsuits. This one (available here) reads like a poorly drafted oped piece, not a legal argument. It cites no case law, no precedent. It is a multi-page whine. Most lawyers, conservative or liberal, agree that the argument behind it is absurd.
“The states cannot just say ‘not for us;’ that’s the theory that was around before the Civil War,” Harvard Law professor Charles Fried, the solicitor general under Ronald Reagan, has been quoted as saying. “It’s truly silly.”
Furthermore, adding Georgia to the list of states challenging the law would change absolutely nothing. The suit will succeed or fail — almost certainly the latter — on its merits. To hear House Majority Leader Jerry Keen wail that Baker’s decision is “pure politics,” as if the lawsuit itself was not motivated solely by politics, is to witness hypocrisy flowing pure and sweet from its source.
But all that may have been mere prelude. Still ahead may be the point that, stupid pedal to the metal, the GOP does its “Thelma and Louise” act, driving off the cliff and plunging into the abyss.
The latest rumor is, House members are circulating a resolution to impeach Baker. Seriously. And Perdue and Gingrich have called a press conference this morning, which I will be hastening to attend. The circus is in town and I’m gonna get a ticket.
However, I must say I’m encouraged by at least one thing. Here I was worried that our state leaders had an awful lot on their plate, what with trying to balance a devastated state budget and fix transportation and deal with the ongoing water crisis, etc. But apparently I was wrong. Apparently, our legislators and governor have so little to worry about here in the little state of Georgia, the piece of real estate over which they have real influence, that they feel free to divert a lot of their time, energy and intellect telling Washington what it ought to do.
Well, their time and energy anyway.
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509 comments Add your comment
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
10:39 am
N-GA – “unless a person of legal age signed a permanent waver. They could be treated at medical facilities, but only if they fully paid for the services”
the problem with this is that you are asking that doctors and nurses stand idly by and allow, possibly, someone to die because they can’t afford treatement. It’s not outside the bounds of possibility that such lack of care could be considered some form of manslaughter (at worst) or some kind of “derelcition of duty” at best.
I would want to put those doctors and nurses in the position of having to put money before someone’s life or health.
thomas
March 25th, 2010
10:40 am
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
10:32 am
“and spiritual or cogintive, it’s still a choice.”
Not really, its like breathing. I can choose to stop breathing but all that will happen is I will pass out and then resume normal breathing, as I will no longer be making cogintive decisions since conscience needs to be present to be cogintive. The only way I could stop breathing is if something FORCES me to stop. My choice would not be enough alone.
Normal
March 25th, 2010
10:41 am
“The Moderate Republican, an Endandered Species?”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100405/scheer
Normal
March 25th, 2010
10:43 am
Gandalf, the White
March 25th, 2010
10:27 am
So…what about that Braves rotation this year?
If they rotate from right to left, I’m all for it…
md
March 25th, 2010
10:43 am
“Can we now say it is Constitutional to have Congress pass a law to force every person to buy flood+homeowner’s insurance? ”
it already is”
There is no provision that requires anybody to buy flood or homeowners insurance. If one acquires a mortgage they might be required by the mortgage company, but there are no gov’t requirements.
Paul – you have a point there, but we are also dealing with health and possible effects on all – just like defense.
If an individual is financially capable to support his/her decision to not have health insurance, that affects no one but the individual. I believe that is the case being made.
mike
March 25th, 2010
10:43 am
Well, just bite me! Jay, your liberal bias is so expected. If you believe that this bill is so great and that all people are enthused about it, read the MSNBC poll yesterday which shows that 67% of americans are not in favor of this bill and are angry about its passage. Even a liberal rag like MSNBC, one of the president’s chief syncophants, cant hide the truth any more…
Jacky Jack
March 25th, 2010
10:43 am
Jay. As the current “conservative” elected officals continue to chase trivial things, I find I agree with you more and more though I take no pleasure in that admission. They are absolutely clueless about the average working class family. They seem to have 2 simple agendas: (1) Improve their own personal wealth (2) getting re- elected and proving how utterly out of touch they are with working class. I’m sorry. Make that 3 simple agendas.
Paul
March 25th, 2010
10:46 am
thomas
I said nothing about immunizations and home schooling, as I recall. You did. I did say not all people have the choice of getting kids immunized or home schooling them.
But if parents want to home school kids rather than protect them from polio, measles, etc… well, let’s just hope idiocy is not genetic.
Thanks for the response on preexisting conditions. That’s an option. The problem I see is the cost of many, many procedures for which preexisting treatment is denied. Many cost models are built upon lifetime payments of premiums to spread cost. One year of premiums doesn’t come close to the cost of some treatments. So what you have is, people get a serious illness, pay a thousand or two in premiums and get hundreds of thousands in treatment. That seems to be a serious difficulty.
AmVet
March 25th, 2010
10:47 am
Sonny “Pray for Rain” is Georgia’s equivalent of George (as in GWB) of the Bungle.
Inept, embarrassing, clearly an intellectual lightweight and incapable of delivering on behalf of the people of Georgia. (Unless of course, one includes corporations as people.)
He and his GOP fiscal non-conservatives are currently running a 1.5 billion dollar deficit. (Granted, the BushCo orchestrated economic collapse has had a big hand in that.)
The political party he heads up and is supposedly the leader of, is absolutely rife with corruption, scandals and frauds. Including his sordid Houston County “deal” where he did not disclose the property or any interest on his financial disclosure forms for calendar years 2003 and 2004, as required by Georgia law.
In my mind, his greatest accomplishments are getting the secessionist traitors their flag back. (Well sort of, They just couldn’t pull off getting the Stars and Bars back.) And keeping our quasi-prohibition in place for the godly Christian types.
With clowns like this, no wonder it took the GOP 150 years to find someone to sit in the governors mansion.
Paul
March 25th, 2010
10:50 am
md
[[If an individual is financially capable to support his/her decision to not have health insurance, that affects no one but the individual. I believe that is the case being made.]]
Well, when we look at the population of those who don’t have health insurance (and for millions it is voluntary) then I’d guess the number that can pay all foreseeable costs is very, very, very small.
Many do self insure. It covers routine stuff, but let anything major happen and it’s only the extremely wealthy that would have the resources to pay for treatment.
TaxPayer
March 25th, 2010
10:51 am
Republicans are sure enough cracking even more than they have to date. Their sadness is strangely entertaining though… amusing… even suspenseful. They do manage to keep me wondering what foolish and childish little gimmick they will dream up next. And their constituency… the quaint little tea partiers. I wonder if they remember to extend their little pinky whilst consuming. hehehehe.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:51 am
thomas –
“Not really, its like breathing”
sorry, your choice of religion isn’t at all like breathing.
I know a lot of catholics who moved on to different religions (or left all together), christians who became jews, hindus who became sikh, etc … if it was as mechanical as breathing, that would not be possible.
Bosch
March 25th, 2010
10:51 am
I’m late to the party, so spending millions on a lawsuit which will end in no where for political grandstanding is ok?
I agree with sfd, the stupid indeed burns.
Bosch
March 25th, 2010
10:53 am
Hey Gandalf’s back! Hey Gandalf!
Paul
March 25th, 2010
10:54 am
I guess the way I see it is, unless we want to endorse suicide as a treatment option (I’ll make the decision to not get treatment if I get sick) then I really don’t see a way around mandatory insurance to cover forcing insurance companies to accept all applicants. Unless people want to continue to pay for other people’s health care.
M Percy (Banned by Cynthia Tucker)
March 25th, 2010
10:55 am
USinUK @10:27 am
No, there’s no such law requiring you to buy flood+homeowner’s insurance. Your lender probably requires it, but I can find no such law in the US Code and no penalty associated with it. If it’s required, why do we have to pay out of disaster funds for Katrina victims, etc.?
The Telecom acts does not require anyone to actually buy the telephone service (and there’s certainly no fines for not buying service) and there are still plenty of households in this country where access is simply unavailable, primarily small communities in very remote regions.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:55 am
md – I believe if you look at the Flood Disaster protection act, you’ll find that it’s required not only for mortgage holders in flood hazard areas, it also implies that, even if you don’t hold a mortgage, you have to hold it if you want to be eligible for aid if disaster strikes.
Night Train
March 25th, 2010
10:55 am
USinUK at 10:27 wrote:
“Can we now say it is Constitutional to have Congress pass a law to force every person to buy flood+homeowner’s insurance? ” it already is.
“What if we decide that communications are a critical human right?”
they already have – which is why we had the telecommunications act of 1996 to make sure no areas of the country were without access to telephony services.
Sorry USinUK, I believe that it is the lender that requires homeowners insurance. As I own my house free and clear, I am not required to have insurance. I do have insurance as only a fool would not cover what is probably their biggest investment.
As for the telecommunication act of 1996, it does not mandate that I have a phone. There is a difference.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:56 am
m percy – I didn’t say that the telecom act required people to buy phones, but it did require companies to service all areas – in other words, everyone had to have access as a human right.
thomas
March 25th, 2010
10:56 am
Paul, I brought up home schooling as being the choice the government has left us in the relm of immunizations. We have a choice or freedom to choose to have any shots. hell my kid goes to public pre-k so he’s shot up but if i really didn’t want to the gov. couldn’t force me to or make me pay a fine. With this new bill we have no choice.
I do not have any stats to prove, but I would think, from my life experience that many who are excluded by a pre-existing don’t require treatment for the condition for years to come. In which case there would be substantial cost recieved. And remember it is INSURANCE. Not a fund we pay into and can only used what we paid in. Meaning that for all those who are spending more than they pay there are just as many who like me have not made a claim since i began paying into it. My wife nor I get sick very often and have currently been blessed and not had any major medical. So basically we have just been paying in money for others.
Insurance its a risk for both sides!
Paul
March 25th, 2010
10:57 am
Hi Bosch!
Good thread. Worth skimming.
Off topic: V returns. Good recap waiting on my DVR when I returned. And this morning, Bobby Flay Throwdown was Jim Bennet, Montgomery, Georgia, who is the reigning cookoff champion for Georgia and North Carolina for…. cheesy grits! And Mr. Georgia won!
So he has redeemed Georgia’s honor from its bonehead politicians.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:57 am
night train – “I do have insurance as only a fool would not cover what is probably their biggest investment”
yep. and you’re wearing hte only body you’ve got, too … you’d be a fool not to insure it.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
10:58 am
Paul – “Unless people want to continue to pay for other people’s health care.”
They way I see it, we’re going to pay either way, but insurance helps to spread the cost more fairly.
But I’ve said, and still think, that the insurance industry could have stopped the whole “healthcare reform” initiative dead by simply setting up some kind of group insurance, similar to employee insurance, that did not preclude existing conditions…and then lobbying Congress to subsidize the payments for those unable to pay on their own.
They COULD HAVE stopped it, but they chose not to.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:58 am
Bosch – hey buddy! did you see??? my boys did well last night (even if Peter didn’t score)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/tottenham/7519013/Harry-Redknapp-praised-for-FA-Cup-gamble-as-Spurs-turn-tide-against-Fulham.html
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:59 am
Doggone – 10:58 – “They way I see it, we’re going to pay either way, but insurance helps to spread the cost more fairly. ”
I second that emotion! it truly is a “you can pay me now or you can pay me later” situ
NowReally
March 25th, 2010
11:00 am
Gandalf, the White
March 25th, 2010
10:20 am
Now Really, think there is a pefectly good seat on MARTA for you…liberal all take it so you can have someone to chat with!
If I lived within 25 miles of MARTA, I would. However, I don’t. The republican fools in my county don’t want Marta or anything else related to transportation.
MD – you have a choice, pay the fines and keeping paying taxes to subsidize everyone else who decided to purchase health insurance. You don’t have to purchase health insurance, but be willing to keep accepting the consequences for your CHOICE. I made my choice at 16 to get a license, purchase a vehicle and insurance. Now it’s your turn.
Every body has a choice, just like you said. You can choose to keep paying the fine and I am absolutely okay with it. If I were in charge, I would set the fines based upon your income level.
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:01 am
“I see no difference between being required to buy car insurance and being required to buy health insurance”
If you don’t own a car, you don’t have to buy car insurance or pay a fine or anything. If you’re healthy, you’ll still have to buy health insurance or risk paying a fine. Still see no difference, Doggone?
And I still haven’t seen a logical explanation of how premiums are going to go down with all the insurance companies required to cover all these sick people. Like I said in my 10:00 post…great idea in theory but not in practice.
Bosch
March 25th, 2010
11:02 am
Hi Paul!
I need to meet this Jim Bennet person – and become his best friend. I don’t think anyone, not even Mr. Super Cheesy Grits Champion can redeem our state from our totally incompetent stupid politicians — the stupid burns. It burns. Apparently, your Texas School Board is not far behind in the stupid from what I hear.
thomas
March 25th, 2010
11:02 am
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
10:51 am
Maybe bad example by me!
Wasn’t comparing religion and breathing.
Was actually explaing how something spiritual or cognative are not both choices as another poster claimed to me.
I think things that are non-cogintive, are not a choice but more of an instinct.
And for some people thier religion is more of a faith and not a thought, a gut feeling if you will.
Much in the same way a person does not choose to be staright or gay, well to me a person does not choose thier religion.
And I have known many people who were, straigh, then gay, then straight, then gay, then bi, then straight, just as one can switch religions during times of confusion. But ones soul “knows” what type of religion it is.
But I may be wrong with that last example too
Paul
March 25th, 2010
11:03 am
thomas
My main point about home schooling to avoid the immunization mandate is, many, many parents don’t have the choice. They’re single and have to work. The simply cannot afford to stay home. It’s not a question of two parents working for a higher standard of living. It’s about one parent working to survive and not rely on others to pay his or her way.
So in this case, not everyone has the choice to opt out. So it’s essentially mandatory for them.
I’d rather think that the conditions for which insurance companies refuse to accept an applicant are pretty serious and pretty near-term. I don’t think ‘overweight’ is such a condition. But ‘heart attack’ or ‘cancer’ is. Lots and lots of cancers hit young adults. Lots of other conditions hit young adults.
And again, it’s like car insurance in the sense that while many people may hardly ever have a claim, it’s millions and millions paying premiums that allow the claims to be paid for people whose claim costs more than a year or two’s worth of insurance.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:04 am
“it truly is a “you can pay me now or you can pay me later” situ”
And not only that, and the thing that seems to be left out of the equation altogether, is the subject of communicable diseases. All those “I’m young and healty, I don’t need insurance” types would be singing an entirely different tune if they became gravely ill with a serious communicable disease because someone too poor to pay for healthcare was turned away fy, or never went to, a doctor or hospital…and became a roving source of infection for all they came in contact with. A “Typhoid Mary” if you will.
It has always been that scenario that is the foundation for my support of healthcare reform. And as I’ve said, I would have prefered single payer, but something is better than nothing.
Bosch
March 25th, 2010
11:04 am
Hi USinUK – good for them! And PETER!!! Ya’ gotta love Peter.
OK, so now we’re gonna have a “special attorney general” to sue —
The stupid never stops.
IRS
March 25th, 2010
11:05 am
Pay your taxes and I won’t lock your sorry arses up. We’ll decide what to spend them on. That pretty much sums up your rights.
You’re Welcome
The Thin Guy
March 25th, 2010
11:05 am
The Amish visit doctors when they are ill. They don’t oppose medical care at all. They are opposed to insurance. So the Amish will be exempt from Marxist Medicine as they are currently exempt from Social Security and Medicare. They don’t pay taxes to support these wonderful inventions of government. They are like a separate nation just like the Indian reservations. Anything that can be done to oppose the tyranny of Øbungle should be implemented. I couldn’t care less about hypocrisy or legal merits of lawsuits. As Colonel Saito said in the movie The Bridge on the River Kwai: “Do not speak to me of rules. This is war! This is not a game of cricket!” America is at war with the contemptible dictator and his boyars infesting the White House. First we use every legal way to oppose the loss of our country. Then civil disobedience in the tradition of Henry David Thoreau
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/23/obamacare-politics-united-states-reform-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellighttop
But an armed revolt is unwise. Hussein and his jack booted thugs have more weapons than we do and they know how to use them. Besides, we tried that in 1861 and it didn’t work.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:06 am
“Still see no difference, Doggone?”
yes, I still see no difference
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:07 am
“but something is better than nothing.”
How is making insurance premiums go up(after the bill) better than…making insurance premiums go up(before the bill)?
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:08 am
“yes, I still see no difference”
Exactly what part of “if you don’t own a car, then you’re not required to buy car insurance” don’t you understand? I’m curious about this…
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:09 am
“How is making insurance premiums go up(after the bill) better than…making insurance premiums go up(before the bill)?”
Should have been: How is making insurance premiums go up(after the bill) better than…insurance premiums going up(before the bill)? -> That sounds better.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:09 am
“They are opposed to insurance”
Actually, they use a form of “insurance” they just don’t call it that. They depend on their community to assist with paying such bills that they can’t afford themselves, in the full knowledge that they have a reciprocal responsibility to assist others in the community. That IS insurance.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:10 am
Peadawg – hey, if you don’t have a body, you don’t have to buy health insurance … no one is making you …
M Percy (Banned by Cynthia Tucker)
March 25th, 2010
11:11 am
thomas @10:56 am
“And remember it is INSURANCE. Not a fund we pay into and can only used what we paid in. Meaning that for all those who are spending more than they pay there are just as many who like me have not made a claim since i began paying into it. My wife nor I get sick very often and have currently been blessed and not had any major medical. So basically we have just been paying in money for others. Insurance its a risk for both sides!”
First of all, the word insurance simply is not applicable anymore. You haven’t “just been paying in money for others”, you’ve been buying the peace of mind that comes from knowing that should something catastrophic happen to you, you’ll be able to carry on without an overwhelming financial hit (up to a point, of course). It’s a bet you’re making with the insurance company, just like when you bet that you won’t wreck your car or have your house burn down. Do you think of your homeowner’s insurance premiums as “just paying for others” when you house doesn’t burn down?
Insurance is a risk for both sides, but the risk is limited. On your part, the risk is quantified by your premium. On the insurers part, the risk is that they must pay out to an individual more than they ever collected from an individual, but statistically the risk is known, and can be accounted for by actuarial methods. Also, there is a maximum level of payout (e.g., your house is covered to $250K, maybe). Finally, there is no way to purchase insurance for a “risk” that has already happened (not without committing fraud, that is).
What “health insurance” has become is a bastardize mix of a pre-paid health plan bundled with an insurance component. The new laws break the insurance component by allowing pre-existing conditions (buying auto insurance after you wrecked your car), disallowing rating (charging higher premiums for higher risk), and removing the caps on payout. That situation is, to be blunt, no longer insurance.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 25th, 2010
11:11 am
Well, I’m sick of this beating around the bush. All these arguments about freedom and Personal Responsibility and all that junk. All this stuff about how you don’t need to drive so auto insurance is diffrent, and all.
Most of us Conservatives don’t want this health insurance law because most of the people it would give insurance to are Those People and the Mexicans. It’s welfare, plain and simple. There, I said it and the rest of you can come out of hiding and say what you really think.
Have a good day everybody.
thomas
March 25th, 2010
11:11 am
Paul,
With alot of the younger patients who are diagnosed with cancer and then defeat the disease. Often they do not have cancer to come back for a few years or many years. They would be the ones who would benefit from the plan I laid out earlier. also allowing the insurance to gain some revenue.
On the 1st point.
Do you see how though possibly not possible, the parent can if they so choose. Even if they cannot afford it and would go broke if they chose to. But with the new health plan there is no opt out. We have no choice in the matter, the Government is going to FORCE us to do something. They are not painting us in a corner. They are taking away every legal option for the first time as I said earlier.
Whacks Eloquent
March 25th, 2010
11:12 am
I dunno Bosch, as long as there is no taxpayer money used, and these guys are doing this pro bono, what reason is there to complain.
Now hopefully the GOP will stop this impeachment talk. We need Baker to stay relevant so that someone can edge out Roy Barnes! Well…maybe impeaching him would make him more popular. I don’t know. Anybody but Barnes!
Paul
March 25th, 2010
11:13 am
Doggone/GA
So much for proactive lobbying, eh?
I see where Bank of America has come up with a program for people in danger of foreclosure. Relieves the person of a lot of debt and keeps the people in their home. Works out for BOA as well. And it wasn’t the idea of a government bureaucrat. Meanwhile, the administration’s plan, well after a year, to keep people in their homes is flat not working and is slammed by gov’t watchdogs. Sure, BOA had self interest at heart. But they did something that was essentially a win-win.
Bosch
The Texas education thing came up again. I’ve pointed out (again) the current board tried to do more of a ‘one for you, one for them” when it came to cons vs lib proposal, and that last time the liberal board shut out all con recommendations. Plus, many of the examples libs are upset about not including… are not now included, which is the result of the previous board’s actions!
Try foodtv dot com and throwdown and grits.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:13 am
“How is making insurance premiums go up(after the bill) better than…making insurance premiums go up(before the bill)?”
That’s the point. The premiums will go up anyway, but if by absorbing that same cost we can ensure that however many millions of uninsured are included in getting better healthcare, then it’s a benefit to us all, instead of only being a benefit to the insurance companies.
Outhouse GoKart
March 25th, 2010
11:14 am
Breaking: Perdue will sue feds over health care on his own
IRS
March 25th, 2010
11:14 am
When hospitals, for example, treat people that cannot pay, whether you call it charity or robbery or whatever, then those that can pay, whether they be covered by insurance or not, will pay enough to cover the lost revenue from those that could not pay. By requiring everyone to have insurance, the government is in fact ensuring a greater level of equality under the law. Now, pay your taxes and quit your whining. By the way, we’re thinking about implementing a whining fee. After all, if we have to listen to it day after day, we might as well get something good out of it.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:15 am
“Exactly what part of “if you don’t own a car, then you’re not required to buy car insurance” don’t you understand? I’m curious about this…”
What part of “if you care enough to not buy health insurance you can always move to another country” don’t you understand? Either way, there IS a choice.
IRS
March 25th, 2010
11:15 am
Breaking: Perdue will sue feds over health care on his own
Would that be with his own money.
M Percy (Banned by Cynthia Tucker)
March 25th, 2010
11:15 am
Being forced to buy auto insurance…I am unaware of any law that says I must buy auto insurance (i.e., to replace my care in case it is damaged). Instead, we may be forced to buy auto liability insurance, which covers the situation where failure to control a 3000lb vehicle at high speeds can cause damage, injury, or death to someone else. Your auto liability insurance doesn’t protect *you*, it protects others.
And, as has been pointed out so often, you don’t have to have it if you don’t drive a car on a public road.
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:15 am
Doggone, so you’re admitting Obama lied to the American people about this bill making our insurance premiums go down?
mm
March 25th, 2010
11:15 am
Jay,
They took the plunge a long time ago.
Grandstanding. That’s what the GOP does best.
AmVet
March 25th, 2010
11:16 am
So I guess the primary question regarding this thread is, in this idiotic endeavor have Sonny and his minions done their part in helping Georgia get it’s first black governor?
Whacks Eloquent
March 25th, 2010
11:18 am
AmVet, anyone but Barnes! I am no fan of the major candidates on either side, may vote for John Monds (Libertarian). He’s black too!
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:19 am
“Sure, BOA had self interest at heart. But they did something that was essentially a win-win.”
that’s exactly the point. In essence, it isn’t the government that is forcing the purchase of health insurance…it’s the insurance companies. They had a choice to circumvent the legislation and they blew it, so it was forced on them…and on us.
But I always come back to the communicable disease issue, and therefore I do support some form of healthcare reform. This wasn’t what I would have preferred, but it’s a start.
Paul
March 25th, 2010
11:19 am
thomas
My home schooling is voluntary example was for single parents, so I don’t see how it is voluntary for them. It’s pretty straightforward: go to work, earn a living, send kids to school. Or… stay home, school kids… and have no money coming in.
I do understand the other point about being painted into a corner. But… if we want to have people covered and not denied coverage, I just don’t see a good alternative.
Here’s a thought (then I must get to work): lot of people here, con and lib, advocate a draft. Isn’t that the same concept? Gov’t forcing us to do something we may be opposed to so the majority of people can have what they see as the greater good? But the premium isn’t a few thousand dollars, it’s years of one’s life and the risk of one’s life!
Rather a rhetorical observation. later -
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:19 am
AmVet – “have Sonny and his minions done their part in helping Georgia get it’s first black governor?”
bHA … yeah … that’s gonna happen …
Outhouse GoKart
March 25th, 2010
11:21 am
You must purchase auto insurance only IF you OWN/LEASE and automobile.
There in lies the choice.
ObmamCare offers no options.
Bosch
March 25th, 2010
11:21 am
Whacks,
What reason is there to complain? Oh, I dunno, because it’s stupid?
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:21 am
“Doggone, so you’re admitting Obama lied to the American people about this bill making our insurance premiums go down?”
Certainly. I always set aside the “promises” of ANY politician that I know, when I hear them, that it is not in their power to keep. If I had a way to stop them from doing that, I would use it.
Outhouse GoKart
March 25th, 2010
11:22 am
Will Barnes be sporting a new color of lipstick for his upcoming Goober run?
Rightwing Troll
March 25th, 2010
11:23 am
Now Seeker covets Jay…
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:23 am
“ObmamCare offers no options.”
But…but…you can move if you don’t like it!!!
Doggone, do you have to pay a fine if you don’t own an automobile?
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:23 am
whacks – “I dunno Bosch, as long as there is no taxpayer money used, and these guys are doing this pro bono, what reason is there to complain”
um, it’s not pro-bono on the fed’s part … so, you’re still paying for it.
Rightwing Troll
March 25th, 2010
11:24 am
“Doggone, so you’re admitting Obama lied to the American people about this bill making our insurance premiums go down?”
Are you admitting W lied about WMD’s?
Keep up the good fight!
March 25th, 2010
11:24 am
Absolutely….you dont have to have car insurance if you dont have a car on the road. But those of us who do pay extra for a part of our policy that covers the uninsured/underinsured that do have a car but dont have insurance. There is also medical coverage in most auto insurance. Of course, if you you dont have a car, you dont have to repair it. Unfortunately, everyone has a body. Every body eventually has “repairs”, ‘failures” and the law says that everyone can show up at a hospital and be treated, even the uninsured. Show me a person without a body, and I will agree they dont have to have health insurance.
Of course, the “individual mandate” for insurance was a Republican idea.
“Armed revolt is unwise” — An award winning understatement of moronability.
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:24 am
“that it is not in their power to keep”
Obama and Pelosi seem to think it is……
Whacks Eloquent
March 25th, 2010
11:24 am
Outhouse, I assume it will be brown again!
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:25 am
“Doggone, do you have to pay a fine if you don’t own an automobile?”
Do you have to pay a fine if you don’t own a body? Inane questions don’t deserve a serious answer.
Disgusted
March 25th, 2010
11:26 am
And, as has been pointed out so often, you don’t have to have it if you don’t drive a car on a public road.
Oh! I get it! All I have to do is give up my means of livelihood, since I don’t live anywhere near MARTA and can’t afford taxis, and I can be exempted from the mandatory auto liability insurance law. Gotcha! Thanks for pointing this out.
Are you a Georgia school graduate, by any chance?
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:26 am
“Are you admitting W lied about WMD’s?”
Yes. No sugar-coating it. Yes he did lie.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:26 am
“Obama and Pelosi seem to think it is”
I’m not responsibile for their thoughts, only for my own.
pat
March 25th, 2010
11:27 am
They are serving the will of the people. Folks don’t want this health bill. States are attempting to stop it. It’s the right thing to do.
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:28 am
“Do you have to pay a fine if you don’t own a body? Inane questions don’t deserve a serious answer.”
That was the point. It’s stupid to compare auto and health insurance. It’s funny that you still see them as the same. Keep it up. It’s giving me a good laugh!
NowReally
March 25th, 2010
11:28 am
YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE IN HEALTHCARE:
Option # 1 – Purchase a health insurance policy
or
Option # 2 – Pay the Fine for not making the health insurance purchase
If you opt to pay the fine, I hope it is income based and per adults in the household.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:29 am
“Folks don’t want this health bill”
Wrong. SOME “Folks don’t want this health bill”
IRS
March 25th, 2010
11:29 am
You do not have to purchase health care insurance. That is an absolute myth. You can just get sick and die and dare me to try and collect on a fine for you not choosing coverage and health over your principled “logic”.
Works for me.
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:29 am
“I’m not responsibile for their thoughts, only for my own.”
I wish other Democrats were like you sometimes. You can actually see that this bill won’t lower premiums. I respect you for that. But the auto/health insurance comparison…..
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:30 am
“It’s stupid to compare auto and health insurance”
And I disagree
AmVet
March 25th, 2010
11:30 am
OK, time for a little levity. (very little.)
I just got my tax return docs back from the CPA and the form required for filing for Georgia 2009 is called Georgia Form 500. Of course I had to sign it, but underneath that line?
A box that says check here if deceased.
You gotta love government bureaucrats…
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:31 am
“Option # 1 – Purchase a health insurance policy
or
Option # 2 – Pay the Fine for not making the health insurance purchase”
Exactly. That’s why health and auto insurance is completely different. You don’t pay a fine for not owning a car.
GoingBroke
March 25th, 2010
11:31 am
So.. looking at the new “taxes” that the insurance companies are going to be paying makes things even more interesting..
Insurer – Taxed = Passed on to you
Your Taxes – Up = Passed on to you
Business taxes + fees + higher costs = Passed on to you
But.. we are insuring people… BTW.. Social Security just set a new benchmark that wasn’t supposed to happen until 2016..
thomas
March 25th, 2010
11:33 am
Disgusted,
you chose to live where you live.
unless you were forced in which case you should contact the police.
so looky there you chose to drive, by choosing to live somewhere that would require you to drive.
choices and elections have Consequences.
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:34 am
peadawg – 11:26 – sa-LUTE! i’m impressed.
Rightwing Troll
March 25th, 2010
11:35 am
“Are you admitting W lied about WMD’s?”
“Yes. No sugar-coating it. Yes he did lie.”
I just about fell outta my chair just now… an honest, right leaning person… capable of actually disseminating an honest answer admitting a… well…, we’ll call it a MISTAKE on W’s part.
There is hope for the country after all.
Not for GA however. It looks like the eternally hapless “Go Fish” Sonny Perdue has decided to do an end run around our democratically elected AG and WASTE millions of dollars to join a lawsuit that will, in the end, result in either what he wants to happen, or not, regardless of GA’s involvement or investment. We’re cutting 300 million from our GA colleges, yet we have millions laying around to invest in a lawsuit that affects us whether or not we participate or make the investment…
BRILLIANT!!! I love nut sacks, the gift that keeps on giving…
Outhouse GoKart
March 25th, 2010
11:35 am
“Are you admitting W lied about WMD’s?”
W didnt lie…Saddam Hussein lied.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( Have A Drink On Us, obozo!
March 25th, 2010
11:35 am
Like I’ve been sayin….
The Democrats in Congress and the White House have forced upon the United States of America a federal health care plan designed for people who are too stupid, incompetent and weak to manage their own affairs.
http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2010/03/kevin_obrien_dont_let_up_until.html
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:36 am
thomas – 11:33 – given how pi$$ poor mass trans is in Atlanta, if you live anywhere other than a 500 sq foot part of the middle of the city, you’re forced to drive.
Night Train
March 25th, 2010
11:36 am
This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be – read it!! The article below is completely neutral, ….not anti republican or democrat.
Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinal has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgements made that impact each one of us every day.
It’s a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!
545 vs. 300,000,000
EVERY CITIZEN NEEDS TO READ THIS AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS JOURNALIST HAS SCRIPTED IN THIS MESSAGE. READ IT AND THEN REALLY THINK ABOUT OUR CURRENT POLITICAL DEBACLE..
Charley Reese has been a journalist for 49 years.
545 PEOPLE By Charlie Reese
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then
campaign against them…
Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don’t propose a federal budget… The president does.
You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.
You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.
You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does..
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of
the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to determine how he votes.
Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.
No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable
directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.
If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the red.
If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ, it’s because they want them in IRAQ.
If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.
There are no insoluble government problems.
Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the
belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
They, and they alone, have the power.
They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.
We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!
Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.What you do with this article now that you have read it……… Is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren’t so darned true. Be sure to read all the way to the end:
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he’s fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him
taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for peanuts
Anyway!
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his
coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his
cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his a$$. Tax all he has Then let him know
That you won’t be done
Till he has no dough…
When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He’s good and
sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he’s laid…
Put these words
Upon his tomb,
Taxes drove me
to my
doom…’
When he’s gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax..
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette
Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per
gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare
Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Ser vice FeeTax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge=0Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State
and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales
Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell ‘politicians?’
David
March 25th, 2010
11:37 am
Good piece, Jay. Love it!
Outhouse GoKart
March 25th, 2010
11:38 am
The Dems have to keep their base satisfied with giveaways.
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:38 am
“You can actually see that this bill won’t lower premiums.”
It amazes me that more people…on both sides…can’t see to see that. Over the long run (or short run) they ARE going to go up. As a society we are at a cross-roads. We can absorb those greater costs with no changes, or we can change things so more people have access to better healtcare…and still absorb those higher costs.
” I respect you for that. But the auto/health insurance comparison…..”
Insurance is insurance. And, as I have pointed out several times…there ARE other options.
Rightwing Troll
March 25th, 2010
11:39 am
Yes, but it’s not MY representative who does this, it’s all the others…
Peadawg
March 25th, 2010
11:40 am
Ok, Doggone…let’s try this one.
If you live in NYC, you don’t really need a car b/c of taxis, subways, etc. Do you have to buy insurance or risk a fine?
If you live in NYC, you still must purchase health insurance or risk a fine.
Please tell me you see a difference…otherwise I’m seriously questioning your intelligence.
Rightwing Troll
March 25th, 2010
11:40 am
Bout what I expected from you Outhouse. Still toeing the party line on that huh?
thomas
March 25th, 2010
11:40 am
USinUK
March 25th, 2010
11:36 am
No argument but it is still a choice to live whereever one may.
It may be an expensive one to live in said 500 sq foot area, but a choice none the less.
Life is all about choices. Its a little bigger than 500sq. ft. now since you rowed across the pond and all. not much bigger but bigger
.
Paul
March 25th, 2010
11:41 am
Bosch
I’m surrendering. Giving up for tonight. I’ve got shimp. Thick-cut bacon. Vermont and NY cheddar that’s been aged over a year. Primo grits.
Screw cholesterol. That’s why God invented Lipitor!
Pennsylvanian
March 25th, 2010
11:42 am
USinUK – “…you’re forced to drive.” Really? Can’t take a cab? Can’t call a van or limo service? And you are wrong on the ‘96 telecom act; no one is required to buy telecom service. How does that fit the forced healthcare insurance mandate?
Doggone/GA
March 25th, 2010
11:42 am
“otherwise I’m seriously questioning your intelligence.”
Be my guest. Personally, I don’t…and won’t…question yours.