A cup of coffee raised in tribute to Speaker Pelosi
In the wake of Scott Brown’s victory in Massachusetts, health-insurance reform was widely proclaimed as a hopeless cause. As recently as January, to cite just one example of many, Washington überhack Fred Barnes was chortling that “the health care bill, ObamaCare, is dead with not the slightest prospect of resurrection.”
Nancy Pelosi accepts the speaker's gavel from John Boehner in 2007, becoming the first woman ever to hold that post.
Reading through various accounts of its resurrection, I’ve been struck by the importance of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. After the loss of Ted Kennedy’s seat, it was Pelosi who blew off White House suggestions to “go small” and seek small victories. And it was the speaker from San Francisco who instilled discipline into a notoriously undisciplined Democratic caucus and rounded up the votes needed for Sunday’s unlikely triumph.
“Just think,” she said from the House floor Sunday night, once success was assured, “we will be joining those who have established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans.”
My favorite quote about Pelosi’s impact, culled from the New York Daily News, came from Democratic political strategist Mark Siegel:
“She’s Lyndon Johnson in a skirt. She was patient, tireless, persistent and cajoling – and she pulled off what no one else could.”
Pelosi has long been a designated “Object of Hate” for those on the right, for reasons that frankly escape me. All you had to do was flash a picture of her on the screen at a conservative political gathering and you could feel the room recoil. This historic success will no doubt cement that standing. And while the Republicans certainly will try to use health care as a lever to pry Pelosi from the speaker’s podium, they will find it almost impossible to undo the legislation itself.
So in this, National Women’s History Month, let’s raise a cup of morning coffee to Speaker Pelosi: She got it done. Let’s also take a sip in the hope that years from now, we may read about some hard-nosed male legislative leader who, fresh off a major success, is labeled “Pelosi in long pants.”
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618 comments Add your comment
REPUBLICANS ARE SORRY
March 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
@Dave R.
“All the while the Republicans will be out there hammering the economy, deficits …”
I think you republicans “hammered the economy and deficits” plenty with piling up 8 trillion of our current deficit and SQUANDERING a 5 trillion dollar surplus Clinton left you while plunging the world into a depression.
The rest of America is not as dumb as you and the republiklans
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
USinUK. IMHO there is none. Or at least, so little that it doesn’t matter…
They are just flip sides of the same coin.
If this were not true how do you explain that in spite of the pendulum swinging constantly back and forth, so very little has happened to improve the lives of most American families.
Again, 80% of American workers earn less in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in 1973!!! In spite of the fact that worker productivity has doubled in that time.
This is no accident. It is no oversight.
it is a systemic failure by both major self-serving political parties.
And both are equally culpable…
Southern Comfort (Warum Amerikaner so böse die ganze Zeit sind?)
March 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
Today is National Puppy Day!!!
When I get off work, guess I’ll have to go find some puppies to look at…
NJ
March 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
The most interesting statistic in both the CNN and CBS polls is watching where the opinion of Republicans is going. Down the tank, essentially. Their opposition to Health Care Reform has sent their DISAPPROVAL ratings to 64 percent:
********************************************************************************
Americans believe that both Republicans and Democrats were fighting about health care reform because of politics, not policy, a new CBS News poll finds.
Asked why Democrats worked to pass a health care bill, 57 percent said “mostly political reasons.” Just 35 percent said it was because Democrats think the bill is good policy.
Americans had an even more cynical view of Republican motivations: Sixty-one percent said Republicans were acting on the basis of political concerns, while 29 percent said Republicans truly believed the bill was bad policy.
While partisans on both sides tended to think their party was acting out of policy concerns, independents were overwhelmingly likely to say that both parties were simply playing politics.
While the approval rating for both parties’ handling of health care has risen, it remains low. Thirty-two percent of American approve of how Congressional Democrats are handling health care, an increase of seven points from October. But sixty percent disapprove.
For Congressional Republicans, meanwhile, their approval rating on health care stands at just 25 percent, up from 17 percent in October. Their disapproval rating is 64 percent.
The poll was taken from March 18-21, before the bill passed the House on Sunday. Both parties will be watching to see if and to what degree passage changes perceptions of both the bill and the two parties that spend much of the last year fighting over it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000941-503544.html
Bosch
March 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
John Birch,
“Was your unfortuante uncle a victim of evil insurance company recission or did he make bad decisions resulting in him being uninsured?”
Neither, and why would it matter either way?
Bosch
March 23rd, 2010
12:42 pm
SoCo,
“Today is National Puppy Day!!!”
For real? Blog God will be sooooooo happy!!!
no time for dribble
March 23rd, 2010
12:43 pm
to those who think they are writing a novel…we just scan past your mindless psychobabble.
Matilda
March 23rd, 2010
12:44 pm
Bruno,
I both agree and disagree with you. First, some sort of centralized system — what you call “socialized” (a pejorative copout of a word, IMO) — would be preferable to further enabling the greedmeister insurance execs who made reform necessary in the first place. However, it’s not “simple,” it’s complex. I’m always skeptical of anyone touting simple answers to complex issues. Multiple, moving contingent factors mean it will never be simple. (i.e., insurance companies employ multitudes of regular, hard-working Americans. Disband them, and we have new problems.)
Bruno
March 23rd, 2010
12:44 pm
“by merely reading the “59 percent of Americans do not support this health reform bill” without going to the next step…WHY do they not support it.”
NJ–You are one of the F-ing idiots I was referring to earlier. It’s a bad bill which does nothing but increase overall costs unnecessarily. As such, no one is happy with it, but your Lib buddies rammed it through by hook and crook. And when insurance costs continue to rise as they did in Massachusetts, maybe one or two of you will connect the dots and figure out why. I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
12:44 pm
Bosch – oh, man, that sucks. mine has had good innings (he’s 90 – we have some serious longevity on my dad’s side of the fam), but has had heart issues and other ancillary problems … but, he’s as much of a fighter today as he was when he was in Africa and Europe during WWII
chuck
March 23rd, 2010
12:45 pm
AmVet, first, as a Republican, and more importantly a CONSERVATIVE, I don’t believe that the Constitution gives any power concerning healthcare to the Federal Government. It flies in the face of what we stand for as a country to allow government intrusion into private enterprise. However, the party has proposed basic changes that could have accomplished ENOUGH of what most Americans expect from their healthcare providers. The 4 major proposals are found on their website:
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it’s good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
In addition, the Republican Party has proposed, by my count, 8 healthcare bills in the past couple of years. Not one of these has been allowed to the floor for an up or down vote.
That said, this so-called crisis is a figment of your imagination. What is the WORST thing that could have happened if the bill had not passed. We would have awakened this morning with 85% of Americans happy with the healthcare that they have as opposed to the 60% who DON’T want the healthcare that we will get under this bill. That is a change of 45% if my math is correct. There was no compelling reason to do this. How many of these so-called 30,000,000 people without insurance are without it BY CHOICE? How many of them have chosen FOR THEMSELVES to forego health coverage to concentrate on other priorities?
This “crisis” is a manufactured one. If a bill was truly needed and if this was the best bill possible, they would have done it in the open and everyone would have supported it. The process itself should alert us to the fact that the bill is POISON.
Normal
March 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
Hi Hitler,
Du sine ein schweinhund…gerecht sagen mich…
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
@REPUBLICANS ARE
The rest of America is not as dumb as you and the republiklans
Oh, yes you are…and more so. Your Community Organizer raised the debt more in his time in office, than GW Bush did in 8 years.
And you’re willing to pay for something for 4 years BEFORE the first benefit? You want the same Imperial Federal Government to run 1/6 of the US Economy? The same idiots that run The Post Office, AMTRAK, Social Security and Medicare. You IDIOTS!
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
AmVet – “IMHO there is none”
um. I think that, if anything, this week has proved that there is a WORLD of difference between the 2 parties. (add to that issues such as women’s rights, child welfare, the environment and that further defines the differences between the 2 parties)
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
March 23rd, 2010
12:47 pm
AmVet
I’ve looked for the R & T articles for other people and they just don’t go back that far, but Automobile Magazine also looked into the fraud.
From Wiki:
The American motoring journalist David E. Davis, in an article in Automobile Magazine, drew attention to the fact that although Nader claimed that the use of a swing-axle rear suspension was dangerous, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen all used similar swing-axle concepts during that era.[6] The handling of the 1950s’ Mercedes 300SL Gullwing has also been noted to be tricky by modern commentators.[7]
According to an account attributed to U.S. author Bob Helt,[8] the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) ran a series of comparative tests, in 1971, studying the handling of the 1963 Corvair against four contemporary cars, a Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant, Volkswagen Beetle, Renault Dauphine and also a later 1967 Corvair (with a revised suspension design) was included for comparison. The account went on to describe some of the test details, which included a review of national accident data, and a review of GM internal files and documents, and quoted parts of the original NHTSA report.[9] The result of this test, according to Helt, was, “The 1960-63 Corvair compares favorably with contemporary vehicles used in the tests…the handling and stability performance of the 1960-63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic.”
The Corviar was killed like the Tucker. It was killed because the competition couldn’t / wouldn’t spend the money to catch up. It was an American car that was competing with the best that Europe had to offer, but Ford wouldn’t spend the money to catch up.
Normal
March 23rd, 2010
12:48 pm
Today is National Puppy Day!!!
They are great sauteed in onion and soy sauce…
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
12:48 pm
jt, Nader is no saint. And I don’t one.
But what about the information I posted in that email today for example?
Did you not read it?
Didn’t you see that the enormous numbers of facts, data and evidence the man ALWAYS uses in support of his analyses and positions?
He is a veritable information machine. In an age of secret back room close door Cheney deals and complete secrecy in the board rooms.
He is the very antithesis to the transparency and honesty problem in government and in the “free market”.
And knowledge is power. ~Sir Francis Bacon
Bosch
March 23rd, 2010
12:49 pm
NORMAL!!! Don’t hate on the puppies. Blog God will be pissed at you.
Outhouse GoKart
March 23rd, 2010
12:49 pm
( @ )( @ ) <—puppies to look at…
Southern Comfort (Warum Amerikaner so böse die ganze Zeit sind?)
March 23rd, 2010
12:49 pm
Bosch
http://www.nationalpuppyday.com/
I think that’s why the Blog God has tolerated this conversation for so long. He’s so happy today that it doesn’t matter…
Bosch
March 23rd, 2010
12:50 pm
Speaking of sauteed onions, my stomach is angry – must fill it.
Later gators.
somewhereinga
March 23rd, 2010
12:50 pm
Ya goot a luv it… People on here are complaining how worthless and ineffectual Pelosi is. DUH…If she was wothless and ineffectual, would we be having this blog? She kicked A*S! She was able to wrangle 219 diverse people into voting for a bill that, LIKE EVERY BILL GOING THRU CONGRESS, has parts that not everyone likes. BUT she did it!
Wouldn’t it have been nice to hear Boehner say afterwards, “There are still things we can do to make the bill better and we look forward to working with the Speaker in a positive manner so all of America can win.”
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
12:50 pm
“Today is National Puppy Day!!!”
yay! another excuse to give our rescue pup a belly rub when I get home … (okay, so she’s 7 – she still thinks she’s a puppy)
Southern Comfort (Warum Amerikaner so böse die ganze Zeit sind?)
March 23rd, 2010
12:51 pm
OGK
My kinda guy!!!
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
12:52 pm
“Wouldn’t it have been nice to hear Boehner say afterwards, “There are still things we can do to make the bill better and we look forward to working with the Speaker in a positive manner so all of America can win.””
hooooooweeeee … thanks for the laugh …
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
12:54 pm
Bosch – Because I don’t believe in universal entitlement to health care, food, shelter, education, or caribbean cruises. Rather than birthright entitlements, they are rewards for work, for contributing to society’s prosperity. Prudent, responsible citizens work and provide for their own food, shelter, and health care as long as they are able. Ideally, this creates a society that is affluent enough to provide for those who are unable to provide for themselves. One of the weaknesses of our social programs is the lack of needs testing. So Reagan collected SS while he was President, and people play the system to get handouts when they should be providing for themselves. And your uncle should have been prudent enough to obtain insurance to provide for this eventuality, if he was able.
Normal
March 23rd, 2010
12:56 pm
Bosch, just imagine it…silver tray garnished with parsley, golden brown roasted puppies with little white socks on their feet and an apple in their mouths. mouth watering good…at least that’s what my cats tell me…
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
12:56 pm
“Bosch – Because I don’t believe in universal entitlement to health care, ”
Translation: I got mine
Southern Comfort (Warum Amerikaner so böse die ganze Zeit sind?)
March 23rd, 2010
12:58 pm
Ok, for your half-time entertainment:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000932-504083.html
Just be glad they’re not from GA.
Mick
March 23rd, 2010
12:58 pm
Maybe one day we’ll get over the hump and have single payer for all. Everybody taking care of everybody’s health care. That’s not socialism or communism, that’s common sense. We can still have our millionaires and billionaires club and more power to them, but why do the wanna be’s fight so hard for them? So many blown gaskets by so many in the minority who will never be invited into the club. Go figure.
TaxPayer
March 23rd, 2010
12:59 pm
OGK,
Did you have to use @@’s @@s. My eyes! The pain.
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:00 pm
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
12:56 pm
“Bosch – Because I don’t believe in universal entitlement to health care, ”
Translation: I got mine
You left out: I got mine “through working hard, getting a good education, and making my OWN good CHOICES in my life.”
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:00 pm
Doggone – No, I worked for mine and earned it.
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
1:01 pm
Thanks for the response, chuck.
“It flies in the face of what we stand for as a country to allow government intrusion into private enterprise.”
Yet for three decades or more, essentially starting with Reagan deregulating the Savings & Loan industry and the ensuing debacle (which BTW only cost you and me $160,000,000,000, by today’s standards chump change) people have sat idly by and watched that very government “intrude’ into the free market constantly. And guess to whose favor? I think you know it ain’t you and me.
“This “crisis” is a manufactured one.”
???
I find this summation to be completely faulty.
We as a nation are hemorrhaging because of this “faux crisis”.
Buffet and many other brilliant men have correctly observed that American businesses like his and American families are financially crippled due to the current situation.
We have lost our global competitiveness in part due to this.
You don not refute the statistics, such as 180,00 will die needlessly before this idiotic thing even goes into effect.
The four band aids you listed are IMHO woefully inadequate to stem the hemorrhaging.
Simply put, you do not cut deals with the system (criminals?) you are trying to replace.
As much as the oligarchs hate it and will pour mountains of filthy lucre to stop it, single payer, for reasons I could detail until the cows come home, is the best solution BY FAR…
Paulo977
March 23rd, 2010
1:01 pm
AmVet
9:06am
“tiniest electoral margins” and even that is questionable both in 2000AND 2004!!!
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
1:02 pm
“Doggone – No, I worked for mine and earned it.”
like the lady said …
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm
“You left out: I got mine “through working hard, getting a good education, and making my OWN good CHOICES in my life.””
Nope, what I left out was: and I’m too selfish to share with those less fortunate than I am
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:04 pm
“Doggone – No, I worked for mine and earned it”
So did I, and I have been since I was 18
TGT
March 23rd, 2010
1:04 pm
The bill was dead, until (some) Dems decided to sacrifice their “principles” (Stupak, etc.) (and probably their careers) to spare Obama from his “Waterloo.” The House was reduced to having to pass the Senate bill, which was never their plan until the arm twisting began. It became a health care bill for the sake of having a (ANY) health care bill, not much more. (And what Obama “signed” today is not even “technically” the bill.)
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:05 pm
“The House was reduced to having to pass the Senate bill, which was never their plan until the arm twisting began”
It’s a start
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm
“You left out: I got mine “through working hard, getting a good education, and making my OWN good CHOICES in my life.””
Nope, what I left out was: and I’m too selfish to share with those less fortunate than I am
Less fortunate?? What? They didn’t want to make the same sacrifices I have made? They CHOSE to make OTHER CHOICES in THEIR life? Why should I or anyone else be responsible for THEIR mistakes???
Red
March 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
Since it’s national puppy day, does that mean that Rush won’t be having his late afternoon snack after his ’show’ today?
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
Truth beat me to it. This is the fundamental difference of many people on this blog. The old conservative Americans believe in work and self-reliance. The new Americans believe in entitlement. The post- WWII generation worked hard and became affluent so that their children and grandchildren became accustomed to entitlement. So this bill has a provision that allows us to continue to provide their insurance and treat them as children all the way to age 26. You call this progress? I taught mine to work hard and be self-sufficient, give to the needy and avoid the leeches.
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:07 pm
” Why should I or anyone else be responsible for THEIR mistakes???”
compassion and empathy. You made successful choices and are not willing to help others. I made successful choices and I am willing to help others.
Del
March 23rd, 2010
1:10 pm
AmVet,
Hillary care was dumped early in Bill Clinton’s first term and he appeared to be luke warm about it anyway. He could have brought it up again, however, he chose not to even though he was enjoying a time of relative peace and prosperity, which he inherited. Trouble had been brewing with radical Islam and appeared visibly in the form of 9-11. Republicans and Democrats alike didn’t view healthcare reform as a real priority up until Obama raised it as his signature agenda pursuit. Obama and the left wing of the Democratic party obviously saw it as a priority agenda item and pushed it through against rejection from the majority of Americans. As for alternatives to this just signed legislation, they were presented and mostly rejected. Now I’m an Independent and not a Republican because they’ve made their share of serious mistakes, however, it wouldn’t be accurate to say that the Republicans didn’t offer up alternative ideas. This was a partisan piece of legislation that wasn’t crafted with anything other than ideology as its driver. We shall see how it all plays out over the coming months.
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
1:10 pm
“They didn’t want to make the same sacrifices I have made? They CHOSE to make OTHER CHOICES in THEIR life? Why should I or anyone else be responsible for THEIR mistakes???”
that’s right! you know, a lot of people like Bosch’s uncle CHOSE to be unemployed right before they CHOSE to be diagnosed with cancer! Then, there are the people who CHOSE to have non-fatal diseases like MS which means that they were tied to whatever insurance they had when they were diagnosed because no other company would cover them …
oy.
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:11 pm
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:07 pm
” Why should I or anyone else be responsible for THEIR mistakes???”
compassion and empathy. You made successful choices and are not willing to help others. I made successful choices and I am willing to help others.
What makes you think I don’t help others? Have you seen my donations to Charities? Do you KNOW what I do and have done for other people? HELL NO, you do not! I may do more for others than any of you and your fiends ever thought of! I DO NOT believe I, or anyone else, should be FORCED, by The Imperial Federal Government to donate to moochers, looters and leeches!
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:11 pm
“I taught mine to work hard and be self-sufficient, give to the needy and avoid the leeches.”
and what do you do if you give to the needy and they turn out to be what you call “leeches”? do you take your donation back?
HMOBama!!!!
March 23rd, 2010
1:12 pm
The democrats are going to steam roll the rest of their agenda using the peculiar procedure protocols available to both parties. If you don’t like it, then wear guns to Starbucks, pop a decaff in your ass, and register to vote, unless that’s not your cup of tea, (like that?).
The Democrats rule now. So it is written, so it is done.
USinUK
March 23rd, 2010
1:12 pm
“The post- WWII generation worked hard and became affluent so that their children and grandchildren became accustomed to entitlement.”
it was the WWII generation that passed Social Security and all the rest of the entitlement programs because they REMEMBERED how easy it was to lose everything and not have a safety net.
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:12 pm
“Have you seen my donations to Charities? ”
No, and I don’t care either. Your lack of compassion has been displayed here for all to see.
mm
March 23rd, 2010
1:12 pm
“Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it’s good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
In addition, the Republican Party has proposed, by my count, 8 healthcare bills in the past couple of years. Not one of these has been allowed to the floor for an up or down vote.”
Why do wingnuts keep peddling this garbage. Hey Chuck, the BS items you listed are the reason the GOP ideas have not been allowed. THEY DON’T WORK!!! It’s just a scam to keep you morons voting for them.
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:13 pm
“Why do wingnuts keep peddling this garbage.”
first rule of the conned: never let a good lie die
NowReally
March 23rd, 2010
1:14 pm
Outhouse, I saw the 12pm comment. I’m still waiting on my charity.
With Love,
NowReally
Tax target
March 23rd, 2010
1:15 pm
So, remind me — including the following, what part of this ObamaCare redistribution of wealth is supposed to be good for us???
The mandate that all Americans buy health insurance represents a fundamental change in the relationship between individuals and the federal government in the United States. According to the Congressional Budget Office, this is the first time in the history of the country that the federal government has ever ordered American citizens to buy any good or service
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
1:15 pm
SoCo, thanks for that interlude!
Paulo977, and I thank Slick Willy for that.
Had he been able keep his dick in his pants, the bumbling Bush gets landslided…(I know, its not a real word.)
But, IMHO it’s all been pretty much going downhill since our nation of ostriches completely disregarded Eisenhower’s brilliant warning anyway.
We must not fail to comprehend its grave implications…
And we did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrGKwkmxAU
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:16 pm
John Birch,
“I have to disprove both of your reasons, disproving one isn’t good enough for you?”
Ah not really…and you’ve disproved nothing…you’ve stated your opinion, but have offered no verifiable sources for these statements:
“We’re top five in life expectancy if you take away homicides and motor vehicle accidents,”
“We are #1 in the world for survival rates for all five of the most common cancers!”
And as to, “I don’t know why our infant mortality is so high, do you?”
Then perhaps, just perhaps, it is a little presumptuous to say, “We have the best health providers in the World! ” without having all of the facts.
TGT
March 23rd, 2010
1:16 pm
“Compassion and empathy” are individual characteristics, not characteristics of a state (with the power of the police, military, etc. behind it). How can one “lay up treasures in heaven” by having the state take money from them and give it to others?!
As Grover Cleveland put it, “Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.“
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm
@Doggone
Typical Lib. Think you know it all. No, you have no idea. You all speak of “free speech” and “choice”, but you think you are so much more “Tolerant” (which, by your posts, you are not) and “compassionate” (ditto). You have to use The Imperial Government to enforce your crazy and wacky wealth distribution schemes.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm
Doggone – The cons act like everyone in poverty and need is a lazy leech and the libs act like they are all wonderful hardworking people with great morals and values that are just victims of circumstance. The truth is there are some of each. I don’t mind providing for the truly needy but I don’t want to provide for the truly lazy. I think it’s morally reprehensible to force the invincibles to buy insurance. They work hard for their money and should be able to spend it as they see fit. If you choose to stay in your house after you’ve been warned the hurricane’s coming, you deserve what you get. I’m sick and tired of paying higher interest rates because irresponsible people don’t pay their bills. I’m tired of my tax dollars going to relieve people in other countries that made bad economic (Haiti) or ethical (Africans with AIDS) decisions. While I find your compassion for the less fortunate admirable, my question is where is your compassion for the worker bees? I worked my way through college averaging 50 hours a week in a rubber factory and I didn’t do that so some socialists can give my money to people whose ambition ends at crawling on their roof and putting up a Help Me sign!
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:22 pm
“I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for capitalism, but merely against communism. I gather they believe that the disastrous state of today’s world is caused by a communist conspiracy. This is childishly naive and superficial. No country can be destroyed by a mere conspiracy, it can be destroyed only by ideas. The Birchers seem to be either nonintellectual or anti-intellectual. They do not attach importance to ideas. They do not realize that the great battle in the world today is a philosophical, ideological conflict.” ~ Ayn Rand
JDW
March 23rd, 2010
1:22 pm
Hi Bosch, I know where you are coming from in your 12:06. Chambliss is one of the main reasons I have not voted for a Republican lately….what he did to Cleland was beyond the pale.
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:22 pm
“Compassion and empathy” are individual characteristics, not characteristics of a state
Just because they aren’t now, doesn’t mean they can’t ever be
“How can one “lay up treasures in heaven” by having the state take money from them and give it to others?!”
By working towards having a more compassionate society.
Doggone/GA
March 23rd, 2010
1:23 pm
“Typical Lib.”
Thank you.
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
OK, soapbox time.
For those of you narcissists who claim that you somehow made it own your own, I laugh in your face.
I love this country. I enlisted in time of war. And would so so again if required. (Though they’d be REALLY hard pressed to take this old horse.)
But I make NO mistake about this.
The men who died climbing those cliffs over Omaha Beach and those who died on Iwo Jima among countless other heroes have given us EVERYTHING we have. Even our very lives.
For you to even hint that this greatest nation in the history of mankind has not given you freely of her bounty and opportunities is to me rather sad.
Uncle Sam is not your enemy.
Quit treating him like one…
NowReally
March 23rd, 2010
1:26 pm
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm
But you would rather spend billions killing Iraqis or Afghans. Typical nut job, thinking it’s going to save you.
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:26 pm
Yep, you love to do idiotic things with other people’s money.
Pennsylvanian
March 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm
Bosch – Sorry to hear your uncle is ill. What happened to his COBRA coverage? Expired?
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:28 pm
jboy – Quotes from Rand the ultimate capitalist coming from you the ultimate socialist? What did Rand say about your beloved socialism, redistribution of wealth, etc.?
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:29 pm
John Birch,
And with my statement, “Then perhaps, just perhaps, it is a little presumptuous to say, “We have the best health providers in the World! ” without having all of the facts.”, I don’t mean to imply you wrote this, just that you seem to agree with it.
The Truth
March 23rd, 2010
1:29 pm
AmVet
Those brave soldiers and heroes did not die at Normandy and Iwo Jima for the Federal Government to become all powerful either, sir.
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:32 pm
John Birch,
“Quotes from Rand the ultimate capitalist coming from you the ultimate socialist? What did Rand say about your beloved socialism, redistribution of wealth, etc.?”
“Begin challenging your own assumptions. Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in awhile, or the light won’t come in.” ~ Alan Alda
somewhereinga
March 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm
Tort Reform: I remember when George Bush was running for office the first time. He had a commercial saying he had passed medical tort reform in Texas. I checked into it and found out that, as I suspected, he was a liar. The Texas Legislature passed a far more “liberal” tort reform bill than he wanted and he vetoed it. They overrode his veto and he vetoed it again and they overrode him again. Then his handlers told him if he ever planned on higher office he needed something to run on so he finally gritted his teeth and signed the bill. Did it reduce the malpractice insurance paid by doctors in Texas? Not a dollar! But he did get to brag that he “forced” tort reform through in Texas.
Yes, something needs to be done. BUT…if Democrats were to pass a sweeping tort reform bill and it had dozens of Republican amendmends (like the 200 Republican amendments in the healthcare bill) there is still not ONE Republican that would vote for it. WHY? Because it is a “Democratic” bill.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:38 pm
jboy – We come in 37th or whatever it is on WHO’s weighted average of many factors, a couple of which we’ve already discussed. I think we’re the best at the high end stuff, cancer treatments, heart transplants, etc. That’s why King Faisal came here for his valve replacement back in the 70’s. I also think one of the reasons for this is our expensive system includes a lot of R&D. As I wrote yesterday, Sweden provides universal health care for 9% of GDP in part because they rely on our drug and technology research rather than spending their own money on it. One thing I know for sure. 300 milion + Americans can’t all have Cadillac health care for 10% of GDP. You quoted Rand, well Rand’s objectivism would tell you it’s a problem is distributing scarce goods and services and compassion for the downtrodden doesn’t enter the equation.
NJ
March 23rd, 2010
1:42 pm
My two favorite insanities from the GOP are todays indication from GOP insiders that one of the intended GOP amendments to try to stall the passage of health reform in the Senate is that they are going to offer an amendment REQUIRING a public option, to try to force Democrats into voting against it in order for them to make an embarrassing vote.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to see this Republican offered Amendment tagged onto the Senate Bill passed by the House (The House did not write this bill, they simply did the reconciliation mark up on the Senate bill passed in January)…
Next is the ranting of Mitt Romney about the bill passed by the House. Which is an almost word for work copy of the bill Romney recommended and passed in his own state as governor.
He is:
“There’s a big difference between what we did and what President Obama is doing,” Romney replied. “What we did, I think, is the ultimate conservative plan. We said people have to take responsibility for getting insurance, if they can afford it, or paying their own way. No more free riders.”
Bad answer! The “individual mandate” requiring everyone to have health insurance is something Obama’s and Romney’s plans have in common—and one, by the way, that Republicans have lately taken to calling unconstitutional.
http://www.slate.com/id/2247467?nav=wp
So far, in the last 24 hours, the Senate Parliamentarian has derailed two of the Republican efforts to derail the Health Reform Bill. The derailed elements constituted the major plans Republicans had to derail the bill. The first argument was a convoluted argument that the House bill has a major effect on Social Security Trust fund contributions. The second was that the tax on Cadillac Plans was unconstitutional:
The Senate parliamentarian dealt Republicans a setback in their bid to derail the Democratic health-care overhaul package, a spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/23/parliamentarian-tells-rep_n_509297.html
The Los Angeles Time in fact wrote today:
Republicans are also expected to offer amendments designed to force Democrats to take politically awkward votes. For example, they could propose adding a government insurance program — the ‘public option’ that most Democrats support but was dropped to the dismay of their liberal base.
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2010/March/23/Senate-Process.aspx
The most effective thing that the Senate COULD do to completely quash Republican efforts to stall the bill is to simply ACCEPT the House version with NO changes. The only reason that the bill is going back to the Senate is that this was part of an agreement made to get the House to accept the Senate Bill. That once the House passed it with their budget reconciliations, it would go back to the Senate for one final set of changes.
If the Senate says, no changes necessary, the bill that was passed today is law. It already IS law as the President has signed it. If the Senate Democrats decide, in order to save the bill from Republican tinkering, that they will accept the bill as signed by the president, it is game over. The law that the president signed remains law, as is.
Midori
March 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm
well, it’s 1:45, and the sun is still shining, the wind isn’t blowing (too much), the Earth hasn’t opened up, and the wingnuts are still hurling poo.
so much for Armeggedon.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:45 pm
NowReally – I want the war crimes tribunal to haul in Obama for sending 50,000 more troops into Afghanistan instead of ending Bush’s wars. AmVet is correct here, i believe. If you were paying attention you’ll remember Obama had all the national defense policies and secrets revealed to him between the election and inauguration. I think of it as getting the Ned Beatty speech from Network, “You are messing with the fundamental powers of the universe” His foreign policy changed after that. The two bridgades (6000 men) to afghanistan he campaigned on became 50,00. but I do believe in strong national defense, you know the “provide for the common defense” part that is in the declaration unlike the provide for everyone’s health care that is now the law.
@@
March 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
@@, I apologize >>>>if<<<< I was wrong
No “if” about it. You were wrong. Just like you were wrong when you went after me for asking what Michelle Obama had chosen as her initiative. You ASSumed I was attacking her. I wasn’t! I was merely interested, as I have always been interested, in the initiatives all First Ladies have adopted as theirs.
I’ll leave you “prefixed” in your ASSumptions and continue on my path of being ME instead of “U”.
I will say that I thought George W. Bush was very gracious to Nancy in his SOTU:
“I have the high privilege and distinct honor of my own as the first president to begin the State of the Union message with these words: ‘Madame Speaker.’”
“Pelosi’s father, U.S. Rep. Thomas D’Alesandro Jr. of Maryland, “saw Presidents Roosevelt and Truman at this rostrum. But nothing could compare with the sight of his only daughter, Nancy, presiding tonight as speaker of the House of Representatives.”
“Congratulations, Madam Speaker! Congratulations.”
After which, Nancy Pelosi set out to cover her own tracks on her knowledge of torture, among other things, and began her quest to label Bush as “incompetent” and “a total failure”.
Power’ll do that to some folks. Bush never lowered himself to the level of some democrats.
He was wrong at times….acknowledging as much….but gracious and strong to the end.
Anything else I can help you with aside from your health care?
Paulo977
March 23rd, 2010
1:47 pm
JDW
10:35am
Unfortunately the ‘mindset’ in this nation is different than it is in places like the U.K.and Canada, for example. While there may be a few ‘vampires’ among their citizens the general collective ‘value’ is that the individual is not able to manage his/her health care without any help and therefore has to be supported by the experts maintained by the state. In this country , on the other hand , health care is another commodity to be bought , and the free -market, through demand and supply, fixes the prices oF this giant MEDICAL INDUSTRY. To change this anti-life, inhumane,mindset is almost a Herculean task so even though you have presented a clear report of the main thrusts of the bill, the minds of many Americans are clouded and couldnot/would not even try to figure out what it is trying to do!!!
@@
March 23rd, 2010
1:48 pm
Matilda:
I neglected to address my 1:46 to you.
Enjoy!
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
1:49 pm
They died for our country and for we the sovereign people.
Not for multi-national corporations to abrogate that sovereignty…
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:49 pm
John Birch,
“in part because they rely on our drug and technology research rather than spending their own money on it.”
And how much to drug companies depend on research from the taxpayer supported NIH?
“You quoted Rand, well Rand’s objectivism would tell you it’s a problem is distributing scarce goods and services and compassion for the downtrodden doesn’t enter the equation.”
I quoted Ayn Rand because I thought it might get under your skin. I think she was a privileged hack writer who exploited the same system she decried.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:51 pm
Paulo – Take your collective value and find a nice commune somewhere, preferably in Canada or the UK since you’re so enamored of them.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm
jboy – Pretty good writer but I don’t embrace a lot of the objectivism myself, although for different reasons than you. I like disagreeing with you, at least you think through what you say and don’t resort to the name calling. We just have different value systems.
lazy, loud mouthed repubs
March 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm
I notice there are a lot of republicans who spend every day , all day running their lying mouths
via the big bad , liberal AJC. Get a job…get off your lazy butts and be productive!
Whine, bitch, moan and groan ! Lazy, losers with bad attitudes and no solutions.
TGT
March 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm
Doggone: You demonstrate a classic (mistaken) liberal worldview. Compassion and empathy (etc.) CANNOT be placed in the hands of the (powerful) state. What happens when those in charge no longer share your (or the “right”) values? History has repeatedly shown what results when a citizens surrender too much of their liberty to a state. Most such citizens surrender said liberties with all the best intentions.
Outhouse GoKart
March 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm
” You made successful choices and are not willing to help others. I made successful choices and I am willing to help others.”
And that is of course your choice.
“All for charity but not ONE for tribute”
Charity begins at home…with ME! As in I ME MINE!
AmVet
March 23rd, 2010
1:57 pm
“…redistribution of wealth…”
I have many, but this is one of my favorite canards.
We have just witnessed the greatest transference of wealth upward in American history and apparently many thought this was not only proper it was desirable.
And the tycoons and racketeers are counting on you benefactors for your continued passivity…
Outhouse GoKart
March 23rd, 2010
1:58 pm
“But you would rather spend billions killing Iraqis or Afghans. Typical nut job, thinking it’s going to save you.”
As distasteful as it may be, someone has to handle population control…
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
1:58 pm
John Birch,
“We just have different value systems.”
I doubt that…I think we just have diverse perspectives. Most Americans hold the same principles ethics; they just the world and its priorities differently.
We are more similar than dissimilar.
@@
March 23rd, 2010
1:58 pm
On the infant mortality issue, leftists can look to their “esteemed” U.N. for the discrepancies in measurments.
But infant mortality tells us a lot less about a health care system than one might think. The main problem is inconsistent measurement across nations. The United Nations Statistics Division, which collects data on infant mortality, stipulates that an infant, once it is removed from its mother and then “breathes or shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles… is considered live-born regardless of gestational age.”16 While the U.S. follows that definition, many other nations do not. Demographer Nicholas Eberstadt notes that in Switzerland “an infant must be at least 30 centimeters long at birth to be counted as living.”17 This excludes many of the most vulnerable infants from Switzerland’s infant mortality measure.
Switzerland is far from the only nation to have peculiarities in its measure. Italy has at least three different definitions for infant deaths in different regions of the nation.18 The United Nations Statistics Division notes many other differences.19 Japan counts only births to Japanese nationals living in Japan, not abroad. Finland, France and Norway, by contrast, do count births to nationals living outside of the country. Belgium includes births to its armed forces living outside Belgium but not births to foreign armed forces living in Belgium. Finally, Canada counts births to Canadians living in the U.S., but not Americans living in Canada. In short, many nations count births that are in no way an indication of the efficacy of their own health care systems.>/p>
It goes on to address variances in other countries.
Demographic Yearbook 2002, United Nations Statistics Division
No doubt you leftists will “choose” to believe what you NEED to believe.
I Report/You Decide
March 23rd, 2010
1:59 pm
I’d like to take this opportunity to present Doggone/GA with the “Most CLueless AJC Blogger of 2010″ award. I know it’s only March, but I see little chance of anyone ever catching up to this level of incompetence on only 9 months.
John Birch
March 23rd, 2010
2:01 pm
jboy – Here’s one link for you. You can goo CONCORD study and do your own research.
http://stanford.wellsphere.com/healthcare-industry-policy-article/concord-study-us-and-canada-have-top-rates-of-cancer-survival/413611
chuck
March 23rd, 2010
2:02 pm
mm, be glad that you are on an anonymous blog because if you had the ‘nads to call me a moron to my face, you would need some of this healthcare. If you want to debate, I’ll debate the issues with you any time. If you want to make personal attacks, that’s a different story. If you had a grasp of the facts, you would know that these ideas would have significant impact by lowering costs and increasing competition. It’s simple economics really.
As for this plan, if you want to speak of a lack of common sense, anyone who believes this plan will be effective in “fixing” what ain’t broke, would be suffering from a serious shortage. THIS BILL IS POLITICAL NOT PRACTICAL. If it was PRACTICAL it would have the support of the American people. If it was PRACTICAL it would have been crafted in the sunshine and NOT put together in back rooms in the dark of night. If it was PRACTICAL they would not have had to BRIBE Senators to support it to get enough votes. Like Clinton, Obama is more concerned about his “legacy” than he is about governing.
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
2:02 pm
“principles ethics” = principles and ethics
“they just the world and its priorities differently.” = they just VIEW the world and its priorities differently
Jeez…this only 1 Diet Coke thing is going to kill me…or just make me sound like a moron.
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm
chuck…chill.
@@
March 23rd, 2010
2:07 pm
jewcowboy….shill.
jewcowboy
March 23rd, 2010
2:11 pm
@@…go grill.
Lord Help Us
March 23rd, 2010
2:15 pm
Everybody…take a pill
Midori
March 23rd, 2010
2:15 pm
it was PRACTICAL they would not have had to BRIBE Senators to support it to get enough votes.
funny – I’ve always said that about Tom Delay’s tactics in the House.
Got Medicaid Part D?