Poll: By 2-1, U.S. voters oppose West Bank settlements
Rasmussen has been in the field the last few days, polling 1,000 U.S. voters about their attitudes toward Israel, its settlements in the West Bank and its relationship with the United States.
According to the poll, 49 percent of Americans believe that “Israel (should) be required to stop building new settlements in occupied Palestinian territory,” while only 22 percent believe it should not. That represents a strong endorsement of the position taken by the Obama administration.
An even-more overwhelming percentage of Americans — 75 percent — believe that “Palestinian leaders (should) be required to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state” as part of a peace agreement.
But here are the most troubling numbers from Israel’s perspective:
In the poll taken March 15-16, 58 percent of Americans said they consider Israel an ally of the United States, while 32 percent consider it somewhere between an ally and enemy.
In a poll taken by Rasmussen in August, 70 percent said they considered Israel an ally, while just 16 percent considered it somewhere between an ally and enemy.
That kind of erosion ought to worry Israeli policymakers deeply.
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145 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
March 17th, 2010
11:58 am
Every time I get a chance to drop in here the daily Jew bashing article appears. See y’all later if the topic ever changes.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
11:59 am
I see the change in the numbers, but “while 32 percent consider it somewhere between an ally and enemy” is kinda close to the Rule of Thumb: about 20 percent of the people will believe almost anything. But yeah, the increase is noteworthy.
In a followup to “49 percent of Americans believe that “Israel (should) be required to stop building new settlements in occupied Palestinian territory” when asked ‘Why’ 100 percent answered ‘well, because!’
When asked to identify the West Bank on an unlabeled map, 25 percent of respondents pointed to Gibraltar, 24 percent pointed to the Sinai, half picked the Panama Canal and one percent pointed to an area deemed ‘close enough.’
jefferson
March 17th, 2010
12:00 pm
What’s the end game?
pat
March 17th, 2010
12:08 pm
Israel looks real concerned about a Rasmussen poll taken in the U.S. Like we care what France thinks of us….
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
12:08 pm
I wonder how many see the unwashed palestinians w/their hamas govt as enemies?
pat
March 17th, 2010
12:11 pm
Most Jews vote democratic, yet most democrats are antisemites…I’m stumped.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
March 17th, 2010
12:11 pm
Jay
Anything to avoid this horrible coup of our government.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Jay for deflecting away from this bill. What haven’t you said anything about the government taking over the school loan program? Why aren’t you opening discussion of why the government should begin to be able to decide which school lives and which school dies.
Call it what you want, but you know as well as I what this bill is going to mean.
And Jay, TRY to consider this: The dims are going to be thrown out on their ear this fall. We both know it. So who will control this enormous power that the libs are stealing then? Who will be in charge of deciding which school lives or dies then?
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
12:12 pm
Part of the problem is stations like CNN run some soundbite of some idiot located somewhere in the US, crying and screaming about Israel “playing dirty pool” with the unwashed palestinians and some other idiot beleives the first un/misinformed idiot.
Kinda like a snowball rolling downhill, the dumbing down of US citizens begins to increase exponentially. Evidence of this occuring? The Obama/Biden win.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
March 17th, 2010
12:15 pm
INTRODUCING TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC:
Dennis Kucinich, The New Double Secret Vice President of The United States of America
Whacks Eloquent
March 17th, 2010
12:17 pm
I want to know who wins the IQ test! Kucinich or Biden? LOL!
GoingBroke
March 17th, 2010
12:19 pm
Most Americans have no understanding / grasp of our own GOVT and we are going to poll them over someone elses issues? Make sense to me.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
12:21 pm
**The dims are going to be thrown out on their ear this fall.**
That is an assumption which may be correct, however, you need to know that out of these 50 united states, it seems georgia has the most rabid obama haters – you are the exception rather than the rule.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
12:24 pm
I heard Gene Simmons today on a radio interview. I guess I knew, but forgot he’s Jewish and was born in Israel. I wish the radio guy would have asked his opinion – somehow I think he’d be rather blunt about the whole thing.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
12:27 pm
Why should israel care about american polls? They usually get what they want or need from us anyway.
If you don't want the answer
March 17th, 2010
12:34 pm
Don’t ask.
MaJo
March 17th, 2010
12:35 pm
Jay loves to cite polls, except those that say that the majority of the American public opposes the health care bill in its current form. That poll doesn’t matter, of course, because the American public doesn’t know what’s good for them.
Help! I've fallen on my ear and I can't get up
March 17th, 2010
12:36 pm
What?
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
March 17th, 2010
12:39 pm
Mick
Funny you should mention that. I had a meeting last night with the heads of one of the biggest nonprofits in the country. They are dying. When Obama cut out the tax incentives for charitable giving, it cut out about 60% of their donations.
They were from NYC, Washington State and California. The word they used all night was furious. Not upset. Not angry: furious.
This 70 year old non-profit is looking at it’s end. It has helped kids in primarily minority neighborhoods. So the democrats will be taking that away from Black People.
If you think that this is only people in Georgia, you just aren’t paying attention.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
March 17th, 2010
12:40 pm
Whacks Eloquent
Testing is a Republican Concept. And if you start testing the Democrats in Congress, they would be hell to pay.
Bob
March 17th, 2010
12:51 pm
I supported Obama and Clinton but do not like them much now. They lied so much. Will vote Republican for some time. Democrats became extreme leftist-socialist-proIslam-antiSemit. There is no place for moderates or independents there.
When Iranian opposition was killed in Iran or China suppressed Tibetans Obama and Clinton were so quiet. They apologized to …dictator of Libya!!! They attack Israel, the only real democracy in most of Asia!
Israel is not perfect but it is much more democratic then Iran, China or Libya. Administration attacks Israel because Israel listens. Iran or China do not care about what Obama says.
Jay
March 17th, 2010
12:52 pm
There’s a problem, or rather several problems, with your story, Swamper.
First and most fundamental, the cut in deductions never happened. Congress rejected it. How could something that never happened be responsible for an alleged 60 percent decline in giving?
Nice try though.
Second, the proposed cut would have reduced the maximum amount of the tax savings from 35 percent of the contribution to 28 percent, hardly a huge amount. That’s what it was back in the Reagan era. The Center on Philanthropy at Indiana University estimated that if enacted, it would lead to a 4.8-percent reduction in charitable donations.
Got any more stories?
Hef
March 17th, 2010
12:52 pm
Off Topic-This should put to bed any idea that Health Care Reform is really about the millions of people living without,or a cost cutting measure, or curtail all those megaprofits by the mean ol rich insurance companies. This just reported on MSNBC “You do have to be very careful that the potential of President Obama’s presidency not be destroyed by this debate” Dennis Kucinich as to why he changing his vote to “yes”.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
12:53 pm
NIF
OK, but it’s still not across the board. I know some people cannot stand obama. Now you know exactly how the other side felt during bush. The difference is that most americans were willing to give bush a chance after 9-11 (happened on his watch) but he over reached and got us into iraq (1.2 trillion later). Obama inherited this mess and the other side declared from day one that they wanted him to fail. Let me ask you this: how would you feel if we started adding new jobs every month until november? The american people have notoriusly short memories. If we are adding jobs by november we will see who the motivated voters are cause thats what its about in the end who shows up and votes. I may not like it, but I believe in majority rule. So let the chips fall where they may..I also believe that israel and the US regardless of polls, will always have a special relationship.
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
12:58 pm
Man, that first post was profound!
Barack Obama suffers from the same disease as John McCain, John Kerry, George W. Bush, and every other enthroned politician in this nation.
A complete lack of moral courage. A total absence of fortitude to stand up to the corporate powers and get things done for the American people.
Hell, in 1950 President Truman proposed universal health care. AND WE STILL DON’T HAVE IT!
We have the worst tax system imaginable. It perversely rewards Wall Street speculation and heavily taxes human labor and sales taxes necessities like food,clothing, furniture and appliances.
The courage to stand up to the pro-war lobby that runs this country and Israel We spend as much as the rest of the planet COMBINED on the war machine and the chickenhawks want even more!
And there is not even any debate about this.
Obama is in fact only marginally better than the serially impeachable and criminal regime that preceded him.
The R&D party does not speak to the American people problems anymore. They do not speak to our family’s problems anymore.
Gigantic deficits, increasing poverty and endless give aways to the monied plutocrats and oligarchs.
Hope and change…
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:00 pm
“gave him a chance after 9/11″ -oh yeah that really happened. The far left that cried that he stole the election from ol honest Al only gave him a passing nod then went right back to screamin & kickin on the floor.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
1:01 pm
Amvet@12:58
Amen..
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:04 pm
Swampy,
“Got any more stories?”
Yeah, like please, please, tell us about all the important people you know and have meetings and lunches with. Please?
Biased question
March 17th, 2010
1:04 pm
Just the framing of the question leads to the answer they are looking for. If you call it ‘occupied Palestinian’ land, what answer were you expecting from an uneducated American public, most of whom don’t know where the ‘West Bank’ is. If you ask the question ‘Israel (should) be required to stop building new towns in Judea and Samaria’ or in ‘disputed territory’.
How about asking an unbiased question next time?
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
1:06 pm
As for charitable giving, i just have to wonder out loud if the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism and the subsequent nightmarish fall out which devastated millions of American families had anything to do with reduced contributions.
Nah…
RB from Gwinnett
March 17th, 2010
1:06 pm
“Most Jews vote democratic, yet most democrats are antisemites…I’m stumped.”
You have to understand there are Jews by religion and Jews by heritage and they are NOT the same thing. Only a very small number of the Jews in this country are committed to the Jewish faith.
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
1:09 pm
“Only a very small number of the Jews in this country are committed to the Jewish faith.”
No matter, the good news is that virtually all of them – Reformed, Conservative and Orthodox – vote against Republicans.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
1:10 pm
Hef
Not true, in my case I even tried to re-enlist (too old) but thank god I wasn’t able cause if I’d have been sent to iraq, well what a disaster. Never liked bush or jeb from day one. Jeb ruined florida and w took care of the rest of US. Then rove started using fear tactics in the 2002 midterms and gay wedge issues in 2004 and thats why we had incompetents who left the country in shambles. He was good for israel and never challenged them for whatever they wanted.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:11 pm
AmVet –
If you missed it last night, you REALLY need to see this video — it’s kind of long (10 minutes), but it’s hilarious and not trying to be all weird and all, but I watched this right before going to bed, and it made me think of you and it made me feel all weird inside:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/
It’s the first video “In Dodd We Trust” – it really gets funny about mid-way through….
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:12 pm
I had lunch with Maxie Price once,he of “cryin towell” fame
Pointing at the bedwetter
March 17th, 2010
1:13 pm
@Bosch Jump on Jay’s bandwagon, because you haven’t anything else. You really do fit the stereotype of a bedwetting liberal wuss. Don’t faint at the concert tonight! Oh, “Woah is me”.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:16 pm
What’s wrong Swampy? Doing that name changey thing again?
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:17 pm
Mick-While I agree Bush was not the best Pres we’ve had,logic tells us we’re not in the mess we’re in based solely on Bush and in only eight years. If so, you,me,everyone is to blame.
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:18 pm
My 1:12 was for Bosch@1:04,sorry
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:20 pm
Hef,
I got that — no worries, but I have no idea who Maxie Price is.
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:21 pm
Oh and for what it’s worth had I been polled, I would have voted in favor of Israel.
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:22 pm
Bosch-He owned a Chevy dealer in Lawrenceville,and used to do commercials with his cryin towell.
Amiel Ungar
March 17th, 2010
1:23 pm
The question elicitis the answer .Once you say that it is occupied Palestinian land rather than disputed land. Change the question and the statistics will change as well.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:25 pm
Hef,
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah! I remember that guy now.
Felix Ungar (amiel's brother)
March 17th, 2010
1:25 pm
I agree 100%
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
1:26 pm
Bosch, part of me wants to laugh out loud and part of me wants to cry.
The white collar criminals colluded with each other and stole all of that money and just walked.
And the Republican nutjobs here think they are the good guys…
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:27 pm
Oh and I had a beer at a bar with Jeff Van Note once,as one can see I’ve moved up quite a bit since college.
Whacks Eloquent
March 17th, 2010
1:29 pm
health care poll numbers…
RealClearPolitics (non-biased) has a compilation of all of the poll numbers for the current health care plans…
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
Note – this is not a poll on whether Americans want meaningful health care reform. But if you want an indication, scroll down to the bottom of that list at last spring’s numbers – before all the ugly ridiculous details of Congress’ plans were known. People still believed that a real change could come from it, but they have become disillusioned…
Hef
March 17th, 2010
1:30 pm
To put majority of blame on any one portion of the population is what myself and others don’t agree with. Wrong is wrong,
GoingBroke
March 17th, 2010
1:31 pm
AmVet..
What do you mean walked?? They are still in Washington?
Mick
March 17th, 2010
1:34 pm
hef
**solely on Bush and in only eight years.**
Yes, you’re right about that. Compare these two time frames: 1950-1980 & 1980-2010
The first 30 years growth of middle class, shared wealth. The next thirty years deficit spending and irresponsible tax cuts plus tech and real estate bubbles, and lest we forget savings and loan disaster. Throughout, israel friend and allie to US.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 17th, 2010
1:34 pm
Well, I never seen such a slanted poll question in my life. They should of asked, “Do you think the godless, greedy Jews should build houses in the land belonging to the Terrist towel-heads?”
Anyhow, ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:36 pm
Whacks,
And if you look at any of those polls, it does not ask “WHY” people are opposed to HCR – take me for instance, I’m opposed to it – Why you may ask? Because it doesn’t include the public option. I want the public option or a single payer system. See? This whole “Americans are against it” isn’t necessarily what you might think.
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
1:36 pm
No, gone broke, They still run the quasi-criminal operations on Wall Street.
And the conservatives would never admit so, but they are thrilled that GWB II, aka Barack Obama, didn’t implement widespread prosecutions…
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:38 pm
So… who were those guys in the white coats on stage with Pres Obama?
Nearly One-Third of Doctors Could Leave Medicine if Health-Care Reform Bill Passes, According to Survey Reported in New England Journal of Medicine
“Nearly one-third of all practicing physicians may leave the medical profession if President Obama signs current versions of health-care reform legislation into law, according to a survey published in the latest issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.
The survey, which was conducted by the Medicus Firm, a leading physician search and consulting firm based in Atlanta and Dallas, found that a majority of physicians said health-care reform would cause the quality of American medical care to “deteriorate” and it could be the “final straw” that sends a sizeable number of doctors out of medicine. ”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/print/62812
Tax target
March 17th, 2010
1:39 pm
Meanwhile among the deem and pass, lack of transparency, NE/LA/union and other closed backroom deals, Thomas Sowell sums it best –
In a swindle that would make Bernie Madoff look like an amateur, Barack Obama has gotten a substantial segment of the population to believe that he can add millions of people to the government-insured rolls without increasing the already record-breaking federal deficit…
…Fraud has been at the heart of this medical care takeover plan from day one. The succession of wholly arbitrary deadlines for rushing this massive legislation through, before anyone has time to read it all, serves no other purpose than to keep its specifics from being scrutinized– or even recognized– before it becomes a fait accompli and “the law of the land.”
SouthGaDawg
March 17th, 2010
1:39 pm
Jay,
Since when do you care about polls?
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:40 pm
AmVet,
As Jon pointed out last night – now that corporations are considered the same as people, now the financial officers or top managers can go to jail just like people would if they pulled the kind of crap Lehman Bros. and the like did.
Whacks Eloquent
March 17th, 2010
1:41 pm
Bosch, I have not heard a fully good proposal from either side. You make a good point – but it still waters down to the fact that people don’t want this nearly $1 trillion piece of garbage…
The Democrats would gain some respect if they’d truly listen to some of the GOP proposals, and then try to get some kind of middle ground. All we get with the current bill is…well, I don’t know who it will truly benefit. Insurance companies short term, maybe the currently uninsured (in 4 years – still don’t get that). How can we not get a provision that will immediately help the uninsured (if they want it – I hate the notion of forced coverage).
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:42 pm
Bosch 1:36
You may find this interesting. Then again, maybe not!
http://pollingmatters.gallup.com/2010_03_01_archive.html
“Gallup’s latest survey was conducted March 4-7. We found that 48% of Americans would advise their representative in Congress to vote against “a healthcare bill similar to that proposed by President Obama”; 45% would vote in favor. The other most recent poll, conducted by AP-GfK at roughly the same time, found 43% would oppose and 41% would support “the health care reform plans being discussed in Congress.” (This poll offered respondents an explicit “neither support nor oppose” alternative, taken by 12%, with another 4% saying they were unsure.)
How to characterize these results? I might say “tilt slightly against” as a little more precise summary than “divided.” But, in any case, I would not agree with the Caddell/Schoen interpretation that a “solid majority” of Americans opposes the legislation. At least, not based on the most recent poll data.
A side note. All of this highlights one of Benenson’s challenges. His employer, the White House, is attempting to proactively pass a new bill. But Benenson can’t use poll data to say that a majority of Americans want the healthcare bill passed. So he is, in essence, reduced to arguing that the other side is wrong if they say that the majority oppose passing a healthcare bill. In this case, to say the public is “divided” is a positive thing.
Clearly a lot of this is a glass half empty/half full situation. Caddell and Schoen are correct that the battle for public opinion on healthcare has not been won. Benenson may be right that it has not been totally lost either. The data still suggest that if the bill were put to a national referendum with a full turnout, it would lose.”
Proud American
March 17th, 2010
1:42 pm
I was not polled, I did not vote for Obozo, I do not want Obozo care, but no one is listening. polls can be manipulated, if you go to one side of town it will be pablum puking Liberals, if you go to the mosque they will denounce Israel, if you ask me Irael has every right to build, they captured the land after they were attacked. Why let the Palistinians have a closer location to launch there rockets and continue to kill inocent civillians.
Jay Bookman, Cynthia Tucker, Oblunder, Peloser, where are we headed ?
Disgusted
March 17th, 2010
1:43 pm
. . .found that a majority of physicians said health-care reform would cause the quality of American medical care to “deteriorate” and it could be the “final straw” that sends a sizeable number of doctors out of medicine.”
Oh, sure thing! They’re going to leave an exclusive profession the training for which is largely paid by taxpayers and take up work as $35K-per-year Burger King floor managers. Yup, sounds like a reason to kill the health care bill to me.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:43 pm
Paul,
My answer to that is:
Let the b*sterds go. Let them walk….they really gonna just quit? I think that’s rather over dramatic. Sure, some might retire, but big deal – what does that say about those doctors? They are really going to pick unemployment over being a doctor. Yeah right.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:43 pm
Disgusted,
Oh, you and I just had a zen moment. Are you scared?
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:44 pm
Proud American,
“I did not vote for Obozo”
Here’s my shocked face:
Mick
March 17th, 2010
1:45 pm
Paul
I find that ludicrus also, my sister is a doc and she seems to think her earnings will INCREASE so bring it on..
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
1:46 pm
RealClearPolitics (non-biased)
ha. you made a funny.
RCP was Andy’s go-to site back in the dark days of autumn, 2008, when he was trying to find someone with something nice to say about the OldGuy/BibleSpice ticket’s prospects.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:46 pm
Bosch – Disgusted
New England Journal of Medicine reported it. I think it might, just might, be advantageous if the White House asked themselves why such a highly educated group of people who would be in the middle of all the effects would feel that way. Rather than dismissing their concerns.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:47 pm
Mick
Why does your sister think her earnings will increase?
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
1:47 pm
They’re going to leave an exclusive profession the training for which is largely paid by taxpayers and take up work as $35K-per-year Burger King floor managers.
You guys… you’re aren’t actually taking a CNS-reported poll sponsored by a freaking doc-headhunting outfit at face value, are you?
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:49 pm
Y’know, when there’s an excerpt posted, and a link, it’s generally a good idea to click on the link.
[[Despite all the opposition to the bill as it stands, only a little more than 3 percent of respondents said the status quo was best, with the vast majority (62.7 percent) saying they believe changes are needed.
The same 62.7 percent said they wanted reforms made, but that they “should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in (the) legislation.”]]
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:50 pm
Whacks,
“but it still waters down to the fact that people don’t want this nearly $1 trillion piece of garbage”
No, not really – again, it depends on who you ask. I am opposed to it, but I’m not gonna sit and pitch a fit and hold my breath because I didn’t get my way – I want something passed, and I don’t think it’s gonna be the “end of all end” like the GOP says it will.
The problem is costs, costs, costs – there is no way to get costs down without a single payer system. Period.
“The Democrats would gain some respect if they’d truly listen to some of the GOP proposals”
You mean like the (what is it Paul?) 200 or so amendments that the GOP wanted that they’ve put in there? The GOP leaders are just flat out lying when they say they’ve been ignored. They want this to fail because they want Obama to fail – they don’t care about the actual people who would benefit from this – they simply want to be back in power (and of course, that’s my own opinion).
Special relationship is melting in the sun
March 17th, 2010
1:51 pm
[...] Rasmussen poll, reported by Jay Bookman, Atlanta Journal-Constitution: [...]
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:51 pm
sfd
I thought we were beyond dismissing a report because one doesn’t like the agency who picks up the story? Associated Press writes a story, it gets linked on Drudge or cited in National Review and suddenly the story’s not credible? Click on Google – many, many outlets reported this.
And it originated in the New England Journal of Medicine.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
1:52 pm
Paul,
I really don’t care if the White House themselves reported it – a doctor can get all high handed and say, “Well, hell yeah I’d quit” but when it came right down to it – I’d call his bluff and say, go ahead, dude. You think that many doctors would just hang up their lab coats? I say bs.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
1:53 pm
Paul
More people with health insurance will use it. Right now, people with no insurance go to the ER for a headache.
Doggone/GA
March 17th, 2010
1:53 pm
“New England Journal of Medicine reported it.”
Might want to double-check that before you state it so surely:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003170036
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:54 pm
Bosch
I heard one of the Democratic leaders a couple days ago say it was over 200 Republican amendments and proposals in the final. And Republicans still won’t vote for it.
Both sides are dug in, playing politics and blaming the other side.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
1:56 pm
But to Jay’s topic (and shame on me for not first addressing it) — the cynic in me has to wonder how Question #5 would poll if Rassy were to change ” occupied Palestinian territory” to “the Holy Land.”
I guess I also have to wonder, non-cynically, just realistically, how much the polling is a reflection of how much bandwidth the American public has for foreign policy stories like this. It is possible that the “erosion” of support Jay cites is really more a reflection of a population that is a bit better informed about the issue. (or perhaps less informed–maybe the last time the polling was done, Israeli settlement construction was MORE in the news than it is at the moment, but I kinda doubt that.)
Paul
March 17th, 2010
1:57 pm
Bosch
Jay just posted a poll citing the number of people who don’t count Israel as an ally. The number had doubled from the last report.
Yet, that percent is about half the percent of unhappy doctors. If it’s worth considering implications for the ‘Israel’s not our ally’ group, then why not consider the implications for the doctors? I believe one of the points from the earlier thread was Israel and her ardent supporters blithely dismissed those folks – and it could prove harmful to them over the long haul.
Yet we see the current health care reform supporters doing the same with doctors?
GoingBroke
March 17th, 2010
1:57 pm
We are going to get a “Bill” or something with a health care label..The bottom line is this..
The final version is not complete.. they will vote on it anyway.
No ones knows the costs, but who cares.
No one can explain it.
The IRS is going to enforce it. (read more IRS employees)
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
1:57 pm
I thought we were beyond dismissing a report because one doesn’t like the agency who picks up the story?
That must’ve been some other guy. I’ll rag on a cheezy outfit like CNS ’til the cows come home.
Disgusted
March 17th, 2010
1:58 pm
Oh, you and I just had a zen moment. Are you scared?
More like mortified.
And why would the sister-physician think she’d make more money if the bill passes?
Well, there are about 40 million reasons. People currently uncovered by health insurance would be going to see a doctor, instead of waiting until a condition warranted an emergency room visit. And those doctors seeing the 40 million additional patients would be getting paid for their services.
Duh.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:02 pm
Doggone/GA
Thanks! For those of you who didn’t read the link, it wasn’t the NEJournal of Med as many sources cited, but the parent organization that also publishes the NE Journal.
Before I read your link I scanned the current and last issue of the Journal. The subject was nowhere to be found.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:04 pm
Mick 1:53
So your sister thinks her population base is heavily comprised of people who don’t currently have health insurance?
Does your sister treat a large number of Medicare patients? Is she planning on expanding care for our rapidly increasing aging population? Because the bill includes a 20-something percent decrease in payments to doctors for ten years, doesn’t it?
Your sister’s not cherry-picking patients by refusing new medicare or medicaid enrollees, is she?
Normal
March 17th, 2010
2:05 pm
This is an interesting read…
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/541707/pentagon_vs_israel
GoingBroke
March 17th, 2010
2:07 pm
Disgusted.. wow. when was the last time you went to see a doctor?
Doctors have stopped taking Medicare patients in droves as the GOVT has an issue with paying and paperwork. (go figure)
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
2:08 pm
I supported Obama and Clinton but do not like them much now. They lied so much.
Dear Penthouse Forum: I never thought I’d be writing to you, but I had this wild experience with horny triplets that I simply must share…
Proud American
March 17th, 2010
2:09 pm
Paul
You don’t expect Obozo and his gang of hoods to listen to reasoning do you ?
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
2:09 pm
Dow Jones at New 52 WEEK HIGH…Awwww Hell yea G!!
Lettuce hope it holds into the close!!
MO MONEY MO MONEY MO MONEY!!!!
AmVet
March 17th, 2010
2:11 pm
Everyday I read there’s been one more, another life they say it’s part of war
Have we made this world of ours a safer place, I don’t think so
Taking over the world just ain’t my thing, I’d like to know who died & made us king
I think it’s time we do some listening
If we’re too busy now will we ever have the time, change is never easy
Should we take a stand now, or just go with the flow
Are things getting better, is the answer no
Are we gonna speak out, or turn our backs and go
Should you join the cause, If you gotta ask you’ll never know
Can’t we look beyond our own needs, focus on another hear their plea
They say what goes around, comes around, I believe it
The common people fight for those with more, that’s the way it always goes in war
I think it’s time we do some questioning
If they did it back then we can do it again right now, times they are a changin’
Can’t trust those politician’s, who are slaves to special interests
But you gotta have the money
Don’t blame the Armed Forces, cause they are not the sources
They’re heroes either way
If they did it back then we can do it again right now, times they are a changin’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NnEg1FeVk0
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:11 pm
“Doctors have stopped taking Medicare patients in droves as the GOVT has an issue with paying and paperwork. (go figure)”
There goes my bullsh*t meter again.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:12 pm
Paul,
Are you trying to get me back on topic? Huh?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disgusted,
I’m sorry that I mortified you.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
2:14 pm
Paul
I am not my sister so I’ll answer what I know.
**So your sister thinks her population base is heavily comprised of people who don’t currently have health insurance? ** YES
**Does your sister treat a large number of Medicare patients?** NO
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
2:15 pm
the daily Jew bashing article
[…]
most democrats are antisemites…
Do righties get a Cracker Barrel coupon or suchlike every time they post some version of this tiresome nonsense?
Disgusted
March 17th, 2010
2:17 pm
Disgusted.. wow. when was the last time you went to see a doctor?
Doctors have stopped taking Medicare patients in droves as the GOVT has an issue with paying and paperwork. (go figure)
There’s such a thing as begging the question. It is a logical fallacy in which a false premise leads to an erroneous conclusion. Your premise appears to be that insurance obtained by virtue of the current bill would be Medicare-like. It would not be. I don’t know how many doctors would be willing to turn down a 10 to 15% increase in paying patient load merely because the patients are insured through a plan offered by a cooperative, not by Medicare. Keep in mind that insuring through Medicare went by the boards during the Senate negotiations. The insurers of the currently uninsured would be regular insurers–like Aetna, UnitedHealthcare, etc. I fail to see why doctors would be anxious to turn the patients down, since they would be getting paid by the insurers, not the government.
Jackie
March 17th, 2010
2:18 pm
Polls taken in Israel show that 80% of the Israeli population do not like the way the government treats the Palestinians.
The coalition government that Israel uses is controlled by the ultra-rightwing parties. A coalition comprising 20% of the Israeli government can bring down the government by withdrawing from the government and forcing new elections.
Until the USA starts to stand up to the reality that 20% of the Israeli government controls the Middle East, the USA and essentially holds world peace in their hands, the problem will not go away.
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
2:19 pm
“Do righties get a Cracker Barrel coupon or suchlike every time they post some version of this tiresome nonsense?”
No but we do get a free meal. No coupon needed. We just walk in and say “HEY…Mr Mgr did you know most democrats are antisemites” and Mr Mgr says “We have a WINNER…welcome to craker barrel, this one is on the house”.
You should try it some time!
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:19 pm
sfd,
I swear my dog could get smashed in front of my house and you’d still manage to make me laugh. Thanks.
Ray
March 17th, 2010
2:23 pm
“Premiums are likely to keep going up even if the health care bill passes, experts say. If cost controls work as advertised, annual increases would level off with time. But don’t look for a rollback. Instead, the main reason premiums would be more affordable is that new government tax credits would help millions of people who can’t afford the cost now”
Let those who have a problem with this denounce their ‘Christianity.’
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2010
2:25 pm
Bosch @ 2:11
My family doctor stopped taking new Medicare patients 3 or 4 years ago. Now, I haven’t asked him, so I won’t hazard a guess as to why. Could just be that his practice is built up enough to where he can be more selective as to who he sees. He’s not that far from retirement.
A question to everybody……Has anybody else but me noticed, that when you go to the doctor, there are as many office and clerical people working there as there are medical people? It’s that way everywhere I go, so it can’t just be that a particular doctor has that problem.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
2:25 pm
You should try it some time!
hmm… is Tuesday’s special still Baked Butter Chicken?
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:26 pm
Proud American
I think President Obama has shown he will listen to reason. Some of his members in Congress? Not so much.
Bosch 2:12
What? And spoil all the fun?
Your earlier post – I’m preparing to go out for a while, but you may want to put “is there a decline in doctors seeing new medicare patients 2009″ in your Google search bar.
Mick
In that case, her projection may pan out.
Bosch – in answer to your question about decline in doctors seeing Medicare patients: Exhibit 1: Mick’s sister.
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
2:28 pm
Ya…with Extra Butter. I get so many free baked butter chicken meals that sometimes I wonder if they are attemtping to get rid of me via cardiac arrest.
PS…they tell me baked butter chicken with extra butter is all they serve.
Paula Dean
March 17th, 2010
2:29 pm
Hey Y’all…lets put in an extra stick of butter the deep fat fry it…MMMMM!!
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:29 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
I asked my doctor’s front office about that. One person, at least, to do insurance claims. Another to do referrals and stay in compliance with various insurance companies’ rules. And on and on and on.
NJ
March 17th, 2010
2:29 pm
The problem is that the average American citizen is capable of holding two diametrically opposite positions. Oppose West Bank Settlements, but want Palestinians to accept the state of Israel.
Ten years ago, the Palestinians two to one, had no problem accepting the state of Israel, but more recent polls shows a radical turn in that belief. The extremism of behavior on the one side, Israel, resulted in the election of an extreme political leadership in Palestine. Every time they accept a set of conditions that Israel demands to allow the Palestinians Statehood, the goal posts are moved.
For decades, they cited that the ONLY conditions were that the Palestinians accept UN resolutions 181 and 242 and then the Palestinians could have their nation. This happened back in the early 1990’s and the Palestinians are still waiting.
The quagmire and stalemate led to another event. 9/11. The only man who saw this coming, thirty years ago, was Jimmy Carter, still the ONLY man who can hold claim to creating a peace between Israel and one of its largest enemies, that has held for more than 30 years. And if anyone doubts the importance of this, one quarter of all the world’s Muslim Arabs live in Egypt. With the stroke of a pen, Carter removed one of Israel’s largest problems.
The U.S. will not simply slap both silly and assert some leadership in the region at all and has not done so for a long time.
On the other hand the idea that the Palestinians are totally innocent victims, is also a false one.
Hamas does not merely exist in Gaza, but has a sizable presence in the West Bank as well, and this year they have already been caught trying to smuggle the material to make Qassam rockets into the West Bank. In Gaza many are regretting the election of Hamas, because families that attempt to stop various groups from setting up rocket launchers on their properties are usually shot on the spot.
Or held at gunpoint until the rockets are fired. Then the Israeli’s launch strikes on people who had nothing to do with the rockets being fired, or tear down their homes in retaliation, etc.
If the U.S. will NOT move for a United Nations peacekeeping force, in strength,. to be placed in the region to insure the peace, then it has to at least be willing to do so itself.
And time’s a wasting. After Operation Cast Lead, most polls showed a precipitous drop in support for Israel with that support dropping below 50 percent for the first time ever.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
2:31 pm
Has anybody else but me noticed, that when you go to the doctor, there are as many office and clerical people working there as there are medical people?
oh yeah.
One of the freelance projects I’d worked on when I was between jobs, some years back, was developing promotional material for a friend who was in the business of handling insurance paperwork for smaller local medical-practitioner outfits. I remember at the time thinking that it spoke volumes about how messed up our nation’s healthcare delivery system really was, that such a business opportunity existed.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:32 pm
Paul and Hillbilly,
My bs meter was reacting to the “doctors in droves” part – like it’s a national epidemic that Medicare patients can’t see doctors. I think that’s bs. Sure it’s alot of paperwork, but that’s part of what this freaking reform stuff is all about – reducing the paperwork – now that opens up a new can o’worms like “do I want my medical records sitting in cyberspace for all the world to see” – cutting of jobs in office workers, etc. One topic at a time though. And, I’m supposed to be talking about Israel. Well, some of those people who lose their jobs could be Jewish.
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
2:32 pm
Thats what we need…another rules change. Good work HI!
Hawaii considering law to ignore Obama ‘birthers’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_birth_certificate
Disgusted
March 17th, 2010
2:33 pm
Bosch – in answer to your question about decline in doctors seeing Medicare patients: Exhibit 1: Mick’s sister.
My own doctor doesn’t take Medicare, by which I’m covered. But I’m also covered by a UnitedHealthcare plan, and he takes that. If there’s any residual amount left, the doctor’s office staff will supply me with the paperwork to file a claim directly with Medicare. I was given to understand that the reason for not taking Medicare was the slowness of the payment of claims.
But that has nothing to do with the current healthcare bill before Congress. Those who want to claim that healthcare furnished by that bill would be like Medicare are either ignorant or using scare tactics. People insured by virtue of passage of that bill would choose from plans offered by regular health insurers, not governmental entities. The government would have nothing to do with filing or paying claims. Thus, I fail to see the relevance of the Medicare red-herring in this discussion.
Mick
March 17th, 2010
2:33 pm
I’m pretty lucky, my health has been consistently good so aside from yearly check-ups and maintenance (colonoscopy), I’m not seeing doctors or need prescriptions. When I do go, it does seem like there are as many clerical people as doctors. Also, my primary care physician has four watiting rooms and bounces around between them. He is trying to cram in as many patients as possible, so if I don’t ask my questions during my alotted 15 mins of face time – too bad. I usually think of the most important question on the ride home..
Outhouse GoKart
March 17th, 2010
2:37 pm
Well there could always be less clerical etc persons at the Docs office then he/she would have less time for patients and you all could wait even longer.
Whats with this clerical Docs office complaint? I thought all Dems wanted everyone to have a job.
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
2:38 pm
I think the leaders in Isreal have lost their sense of perspective…they should be fighting to build on this bank:
http://www.allexotic-vacations.com/europe/CotedAzur/Images/Cote%20d%20Azur%201.jpg
Not this bank:
http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/HH_13-10.jpg
GoingBroke
March 17th, 2010
2:43 pm
Bosch.. couple of things.. put your bs meter away please. do a google search on doctors refusing medicare patients, etc. My experience with this is personal. It only appears if you know how to fraud the system, do you make any money at it. The rates are so low with Medicare that doctors cannot justify the expense.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:43 pm
Hey there, jewcowboy –
Doesn’t it kinda perpetuate stereotypes to talk about Jews and banks?
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:47 pm
Going Broke,
It’s YOUR personal experience – it’s not a national epidemic. It’s more wingnut scare tactics to make grandmas think they ain’t gonna get to go to the doctor anymore.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2010
2:49 pm
sfd & Paul
Yeah, that was sort of my point. The doctor is having to hire 2 or 3 people to deal with insurance companies. I personally know a physical therapist who was telling me, that I’d be amazed how much time they spend (the therapist not the office staff) on the phone arguing with insurance companies about why a treatment is necessary, when they could be spending the time dealing with patients.
And I’m probably dating myself but I remember when the HMO was a new idea and it was going to be a be-all, end-all to controlling health care costs. Hasn’t really worked out has it?
He is trying to cram in as many patients as possible, so if I don’t ask my questions during my alotted 15 mins of face time – too bad.
Consider yourself lucky. About 10 years ago I had a $400k a year, specialist, who got happy feet it he was in the room with me over 2 minutes.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
2:52 pm
“do a google search”
The google picture is cool today. It’s worth repeating.
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
2:53 pm
GoingBroke,
“The rates are so low with Medicare that doctors cannot justify the expense.”
Here are the rates if your are interested:
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/PFSLookup/
And the cpt codes are here if you need them:
http://www.physiciansofficeresource.com/cpt-full-list.asp
Doing a comparison for a few procedures, they do not seem that far off from the national average.
Paul
March 17th, 2010
2:53 pm
Bosch
It tis indeed, laddie -
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
2:58 pm
Hi Paul,
“Doesn’t it kinda perpetuate stereotypes to talk about Jews and banks?”
Shhh…don’t bring attention to the secret jewish cabal bent on world domination through the “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.”
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
3:03 pm
Paul,
I have a tatoo similar to that “G” in the google on the googly page. I like that “E” too, it looks kind of like an Irish Pac Man (or Pac Lady).
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
3:04 pm
Bosch,
” it looks kind of like an Irish Pac Man (or Pac Lady).”
Eating a nuclear particle?
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
3:07 pm
jewcowboy,
“Eating a nuclear particle?”
Yeah! Good call.
joe matarotz
March 17th, 2010
3:07 pm
By poll, 3 ot of Dentists prefer Crest.
By poll, 3 out of 4 moms prefer Jif.
So what? This isn’t about us. Would we pay any attention if 1 out of 2 Israelis disapproved of something we did?
As an autonomous nation, it is up to them to deal with their neighbors. Of course, we need to stop funding them – but that should have happened a long time ago.
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
3:10 pm
joe,
Well, it is kind of relevant to us in that we send them bajillions of our money every year. Other than that, good point.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
3:12 pm
Anyone still trying to claim that a vote for HCR is a vote for federally funded abortions might want to read this.
“For those who know me, I have always respected and cherished the sanctity of human life,” [Representative Dale E.] Kildee said in his statement. “I spent six years studying to be a priest and was willing to devote my life to God. I came to Congress two years after the Hyde Amendment became law. And I have spent the last 34 years casting votes to protect the lives of the unborn.”
“I have stood up to many in my party to defend the right to life and have made no apologies for doing so,” he continued. “I now find myself disagreeing with some of the people and groups I have spent a lifetime working with. I have listened carefully to both sides, sought counsel from my priest, advice from family, friends and constituents and I have read the Senate abortion language more than a dozen times. I am convinced that the Senate language maintains the Hyde Amendment, which states that no federal money can be used for abortion.”
Kildee added that there were important reasons to support the measure. “We must not lose sight of what is at stake here — the lives of 31 million American children, adults, and seniors-who don’t have health insurance,” he said. “There is nothing more pro-life than protecting the lives of 31 million Americans.”
Amen.
godless heathen
March 17th, 2010
3:16 pm
“There is nothing more pro-life than protecting the lives of 31 million Americans.”
Horse squeeze. This bill doesn’t have a damn thing to do with protecting 31 million American lives.
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
3:16 pm
“By poll, 3 out of 4 moms prefer Jif.”
Why does the name “Jif” seem as if it is straight out of Mad Men?
Southern Comfort (متعة الجنوبي)
March 17th, 2010
3:16 pm
I’ve told y’all time and time again. There are two important polls: fishing and stripper. Other than that, they can mean anything you want.
For instance, I think it was Paul that mentioned 1/3 of doctors polled said they would quit. I guess someone else could interpret that to mean tht 2/3 of doctors would continue practicing medicine if this bill passes.
It’s the same with the West Bank. Polls can be stated, factually at that, to mean whatever you want them to say.
Y’all need to quit all this griping and go drink a beer. It’s 5′o clock somewhere!!!
Bosch
March 17th, 2010
3:17 pm
Horse squeeze?
jewcowboy
March 17th, 2010
3:19 pm
“Horse squeeze?”
Horse squeeze is the best when you put it over some cracked ice, a splash of soda and a lime wedge.
Reeefreshing!
Southern Comfort (متعة الجنوبي)
March 17th, 2010
3:21 pm
dB
I’ll take your abortion link and raise you one…
“South Carolina Legislators Reject Rape, Incest Abortion Ban”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/17/south-carolina-legislators-reject-rape-incest-abortion-ban/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+foxnews%252Fpolitics+%2528Text+-+Politics%2529
Republican Rep. Wendy Nanney of Greenville disagreed. “Women do not have a right to take that life,” Nanney said. Pregnancies are “a life. It’s a precious gift. Maybe we don’t like how it was created and the circumstances in which it was created.”
Democrat Rep. Lester Branham, a retired Lake City pastor, urged legislators to discern the difference between a gift and a crime. “That act of impregnating that girl against her will is not a gift of God. It’s a crime. It’s a crime against her and a crime against all humanity in my opinion,” Branham said.
@@
March 17th, 2010
3:21 pm
Within the last three days, jay, you’ve covered our diminishing relationship with Israel three times, and our diminishing relationship with China once.
During his campaign, Obama said he would bring us all closer.
Closer to what is the question at hand.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
3:28 pm
This bill doesn’t have a damn thing to do with protecting 31 million American lives.
Hey, don’t tell me. Tell that to the six-years-in-the-seminary guy. He’s obviously an imbecile.
stands for decibels
March 17th, 2010
3:30 pm
“Maybe we don’t like how it was created and the circumstances in which it was created.”
Go on, do tell… so, maybe you do? When it comes to impregnatin’, it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission?
What a sicko.
godless heathen
March 17th, 2010
3:50 pm
“Hey, don’t tell me. Tell that to the six-years-in-the-seminary guy. He’s obviously an imbecile.”
No, just a politician.
jefferson
March 17th, 2010
5:05 pm
I bet doctors and hospital won’t take NO medicare patients.
AMERICAN-ZIONIST SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP « Shoah
March 17th, 2010
5:36 pm
[...] poll, reported by Jay Bookman, Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 49 percent of Americans believe that “Israel (should) be required to stop building new [...]
steve
March 17th, 2010
7:11 pm
i found this poll: http://www.livecitizen.com/2010/03/approve-israels-building-settlements/ and so far support for the settlements are not so popular, but that doesn’t stop Israel from continuing I guess.
U S Taxpayer
March 17th, 2010
11:52 pm
How did we get off the topic of Israel and on to Obama bashing? I want to stop giving money to a government who will pick your pocket with one hand and poke you in the eye with the other. Stop all aid to Israel.
common sense
March 18th, 2010
5:13 am
Just as it’s perfectly reasonable for one to have a negative view of an American administration while having nothing against American people (as many Canadians, British, Australians and a considerable number of Americans themselves felt when Bush Jr. was in office), so too is it perfectly reasonable for Americans to have a negative view of Netanyahu’s administration without being antisemitic.
Disliking the Israeli government does not necessarily make one a Jew hater. Anyone who tries to frame this argument otherwise is being disingenuous to an extreme.
No More Progressives!
March 18th, 2010
10:54 am
ISRAELI POLL: By a vote of 20 to 1, the Israelis confirmed that they find American meddling in their affairs repugnant. Send Bozo Joe back to Delaware, and Keep Queen Hildabeast out of Jerusalem.
Pointless Polling at Z-Word Blog
March 18th, 2010
2:13 pm
[...] poll on U.S. public attitudes toward Israeli settlements has gotten some attention in major media sources. No matter where you stand on the settlement issue, it’s too bad the poll is literally [...]
The Dish despairs… that Americans aren’t dishier about Israel « The Daily Dishwater
April 27th, 2010
2:24 am
[...] is determining whether Israel should permanently occupy the West Bank and all of Jerusalem. And we have that poll, from Rasmussen no less, an outfit whose sample would be likely to provide a pro-Netanyahu [...]