Did Petraeus briefing set stage for U.S.-Israel spat?

Slackers. Get back to work.

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NIF, what is the politically correct way to say, “That’s RETARDED!” without offending Sister Sarah?

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NIF

Why ALWAYS with the blame directed at one political party?

I think patraeus is following the old saying, “keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer”.

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I’ll ask again, if libs hate the Jews so much, why do Jews always overwhelming vote for Democrats?

Maybe, just maybe because they don’t trust the Christian nutjobs that run the GOP?

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If there is any connection between the Palestinian crisis and the American war at Iraq and Afghanistan then why the US didn’t asked Israel previous of their invasions? Why the US have the right to badly influence Israel security and now crying as a bitten wolf.
I say that there is no any connection between those arenas, but political one. Obama needs an excuse to declare why America lost the war in Afghanistan, now he has.
America attacked Afghanistan as a choice, Israel has no other option but to fight those who fight her in the border and from inside.
The US military high command has no moral power to carry on the war and its consequences.
But, Israel has better claims to call against the US, because US steps touch the very core of Palestinian terror activity, and now Obama stands make the Palestinians more extremists and less patient, which can very soon expose and explode a new and bigger Intifada. That Israel can rightly blame the US and Obama for that consequences.

Abe Bird, Brussels

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The message couldn’t be plainer: Israel’s intransigence could cost American lives.

Never in my life have I ever seen a more cowardly, spineless, backstabbing or immature statement as this, these liberals are the lowest of the low.

And they are being used by the same people that would kill all of us just as soon as they would kill all the Jews.

Israel better wise up, they have far more enemies than they think they do.

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The Jews are climbing into the ovens without a struggle, again, and to answer the question, I don’t what their problem is.

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Report-I believe in what you say. One difference,Israel has only one friend anywhere-us. And with the current nut in the WH,they may not have us for long.

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For us to ever have any semblance of rational debate on this issue, we have to know that for many, criticism of the government of Israel’s policies is NOT any different than criticizing our own government, or that of say, Iran. Criticizing, disagreeing, with a nation’s policies does NOT mean you hate Jews, or Americans, or Iranians, in fact, oftentimes, government leaders are a poor reflection of who their people are, and of their people’s desires.

Bottom line, the overwhelming majority of Israelis & Palestinians, simply want this madness to end, so they can just live their lives, raise their families, and have peace. Extremists on both sides however, are intent on never seeing that occur, and until we put biases & personal agendas aside, and deal with this in truth, & that means no one, or no one side is without fault, it will mean only more & more violence, and catalyst for bloodshed around the world.

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yay! I think we have a new record – criticism = anti-semitism on the second post!!! huzzah!!!

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Headline: “Army drops bayonet training and five mile runs …………. ”

First, men and women training together in boot camp, and now no bayonet training or long runs and repeal of “don’t rearend, don’t tailgate” just down the road.

Sure, they’ve articulated their reasons (you can always think of some) but the Army is getting soft …………. this does not bode well for the future.

Marines ……….. standby to repel boarders !!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ilus48gmxYSgIdZt-1S3hGC13k1gD9EFP3MO1

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I can’t believe the reactions here. IR/YW sounds almost anti-Semetic with his tone. Others have a similar tone but yet at the same time want the U.S. to cover all of Israel’s sins regardless of what they do. Shame on all of you. You offer nothing of substance and spout only hate.

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I know one thing, only a stone cold retard would think I am “anti-Semetic,” just sayin….

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The Jews are climbing into the ovens without a struggle, again

Insulting and dishonest on so many levels…

Comments like Whiner & NIFfy’s remind me that being Rapture Ready is literally a full-time job for some folks.

And getting shrilly hysterical any time it’s so much as intimated that our complicated relationship with Israel might’ve become more complicated due to something Israel did, is just part of the drill.

(Mick, you favorably quote Pat Buchanan again, and I might have to punch you. Also.)

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IR/YW – you talk’n about Sarah?

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That is the kind of talk a country uses against an enemy, and that is why the reaction to it from the Jewish community has been so stark. AIPAC issued a statement the likes of which I’m not sure we’ve ever seen before, a directly confrontational take on the administration: “The Obama Administration’s recent statements regarding the U.S. relationship with Israel are a matter of serious concern. AIPAC calls on the Administration to take immediate steps to defuse the tension with the Jewish State.” Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, who doesn’t usually speak so directly, especially to Democratic presidents, said, “We are shocked and stunned at the Administration’s tone and public dressing down of Israel on the issue of future building in Jerusalem. We cannot remember an instance when such harsh language was directed at a friend and ally of the United States.”

Did you ever think you weren’t an ally anymore, my man?

Just sayin….

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“This is starting to get dangerous for us,” Biden reportedly told Netanyahu. “What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That endangers us and it endangers regional peace.”

Starting to get dangerous for us?

How long have we had troops in the ME?

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Southern Comfort:

If they don’t …….. shame on them …………. they make every attachment to that rifle but a VCR hookup !

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Petraeus has been brainwashed, or he is under the direct threat of duress, just sayin…

Has any Israeli concession produced any sort of reciprocation in kind from the cut throats?

Not.

So now the attacks of 9/11 must have been because we were buddies with Israel, eh?

Iran hostage taking?

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P.S.

The point is …………. it takes a special kind of person to be in the infantry and we are losing that for a multitude of reasons. “There’s the infantry and then there’s everybody else.” Author Unknown

“The rifleman fights without promise of either reward or relief. Behind every river there’s another hill, and behind that hill, another river. After weeks or months on the line only a wound can offer him the comfort of safety, shelter, and a bed. Those who are left to fight, fight on, evading death but knowing that with each day of evasion they have exhausted one more chance for survival. Sooner or later, unless victory comes, this chase must end on the litter or in the grave.”

General of the Army
Omar N. Bradley

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Where was all of the Patreaous mealy mouthing during his 3 years under Bushie, know what I’m sayin….

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I think it’s almost funny how all you libs keep wanting Israel to negotiate with the terrorists over the ownership of land when it’s not land the terrorists want but the total annihilation of Israel. If they can get you morons to help them do that 1 square mile at at time, they’re fine with that, but make no mistake about that being the goal. And they have ignored every peace treaty they’ve ever agreed to.

And you sit here crying about them building apartments in disputed lands while every day they wake up wondering if the next rocket attack is going to hit their kids school bus. It’s an enemy with no country, no flag, and no uniform that follows no rules of engagement and has no remorse. These thugs are no different than the VA Tech shooter or Columbine in their willingness to kill anybody and everybody and you morons support them.

While the US has been propping Israel up, we have also been the only thing keeping Israel from nuking them back to the stone age (not that they ever actually progressed past it…). When you pull that support and cut ties with Israel, don’t be surprised when that restraint is also removed and Israel does EVERYTHING it needs to do to protect itself from your soulmates who would have them all dead and gone.

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“Where was all of the Patreaous mealy mouthing during his 3 years under Bushie, know what I’m sayin….”

Exactly. He was “Betrayus” until Obama came along. Now the libs love him. I guess their marching orders from HQ told them too cuase it’s obviouse their change of heart hasn’t come from them actually thinking for a change.

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This entire situation with Israel reminds me of the times I came crying to my grandmother as a little girl: She would say, when you are surrounded by the enemy; don’t keep writing checks that your butt can’t cash. And don’t keep trying to hide behind my skirt when it bounce.

I learned two things:

1. Don’t start trouble
2. A good friend in time of need is hard to find. (never take them for granted)

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RB from Gwinnett speaks with such certainty and authority on what terrorists want and what libs love. How does she know these things? No true God-fearing Christian American patriot knows these things unless she is in bed with our enemies, both here and abroad. Seize that trollop! Waterboarding will fix you up where the Massengil failed. And yes you will thank me for it afterward.

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sfd
**(Mick, you favorably quote Pat Buchanan again, and I might have to punch you. Also.)**

Be careful about that, I have an excellent counterpunch..

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Stay the Course

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God is not mocked, repeal DADT, that goes for the Catholic Church as well as the US military…

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Scout
1:39 pm

G-d bless you for your service. Your points are all dead on.

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Franz,

I LOVE your band!

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I think that’s a good point; why doe’s petraeus seem more acceptble now with obama then before with bush? No matter, we need to end these wars immediately and start repairing this country.

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Jay:

Well, I see since you are recently returned from being embedded with the Marines in Afghanistan that you do know everything about infantry combat – even from generation to generation. I would like to hear of your adventures. By the way, are you 42 yet ?

But ……… in answer to your proposition, of course I can compare today’s military vs. that of my youth because I know veterans from both era’s and what they say/feel about our current military. And guess what …….. a firefight with a company of NVA in the jungles of Nam is very similar to a firefight with the Taliban in the hills of Afghanistan. But if the rules are different ………….. there are many problems for the poor grunt on the ground.

Have you ever noticed that each generation “claims” our military now has the best personnel, training and weapons of any generation ? Best weapons yes, best training (not necessarily) and best personnel/courage (not necessarily by a long shot).

For example ……… let’s just compare the “courage” thing.

Afghanistan: Armored vehicles to ride in, full body armor to wear, medic or corpsman immediately available, helicopter medivac to the best surgery teams in the world, evacuation to an acute care center in Germany, etc., etc.

Pickets Charge: Lined up in rows, no armor, .50 cals. and grape shot coming at you (if you gain your objective you get to bayonet fight), no medics (only stretcher bearers after the battle), beastly medical care, a gut shot means a slow, painful death, etc., etc.

Now ………. you want to compare the courage of those generations?

Jay, you are a good “writer” but you speak of things sometimes you know nothing about.

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Mick,

“why doe’s petraeus seem more acceptble now with obama then before with bush?”

Pardon me, but I think that’s a crock of bs. I think to most normal people Petraeus was always okay – with the, as Paul likes to say, lalaliberals, he was the devil incarnate, but I don’t know anyone except for the MoveOn.orgers that had anything bad to say about him.

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Israel first America lasts should be tried for treason! You see where the loyalty lies when attacking a four star general who engineered the Iraq surge because he thinks greater Israel is harming U.S. interest and security. Petraeus is not a liberal he is an AMERICAN PATRIOT. What he says should be taken over any AIPAC or other traitors to America. And he is absolutely right. If you looked at Arab news around the region there is and has been a major emphasis on the plight of the Palestinians. Evictions, demolitions, land grabs, refugees, blockades, this is causing a major credibility gap with America fighting two wars there. American allies are seen as puppets of Israel. Israel is in constant violation of international law. Arabs see the double standard and our sworn enemies like Al Queda, Iran, the Taliban all use it as propaganda against the U.S. Put simply Israel is becoming more of a liability than an asset. Their contempt for the U.S. is evident as they try to embarrass the U.S. They are deliberately trying to make us look weak and harm our interest! And some traitors want to put the interest of Israel over that of the U.S. They should be hanged for treason!

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Bosch

If nixon can get a pardon, I’ll extend one to you and on your point – you are absolutely correct sir..

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This is such B.S. The Palestinians lob bombs and missiles into Israel EVERYDAY. If the Mexicans did that to us, we’d crush them immediately without regard to what the rest of the world thinks. When Obama was elected I promised myself not to act like the libs did towrds W. I promised myslef I would treat Obama with respect and, as a citizen, assist him to succeed because he was my President even though I didn’t vote for him. But, the further along we go I’m having a difficult time with my promise. This guy does absolutely zero I agree with. If Israel can’t count on us, who can?

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Mick,

That was more of a response to RB than you.

Wyld Byll – whatever – link to the source, put it in context and we’ll talk…..otherwise go back to your hole.

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There are no women combat infantry troops in the military. Women and men train together for basic training, but combat infantry for women is not allowed.

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Isn’t it ironic that there are many that will impure the integrity of a professional military officer and the military as a whole to support a foreign country?

Are these people citizens of the USA, or, is their politics outstripping the so-called patriotism they exhibit by supporting an ally?

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You folks better read the Bible, we need to be on Israel’s (i.e. The Lord G-d, himself’s)side on this when things go down.

HORSE FEATHERS!

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**You folks better read the Bible**

I don’t recall reading of jesus choosing sides. As a matter of fact, the good samaritan is about people (samaritans) that the jews didn’t think too highly of.

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Support our troops! Dump Israel. No more $$ to Israel until they deserve it. No more $$ to Israel until they enter into a peace agreement that benefits the USA, not Israel. Git rid of all the Pols bought off by Israel and see how fast peace will reign in the Middle East.

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Jay:

Re: my 2:26 ……….

I’m still waiting for your little expose’ on your combat time with the Marines in Afghanistan.

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@John

You contend the USA would not tolerate Mexicans shooting at our citizens or soldiers on our soil.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=76594.0

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Mick

March 16th, 2010
WyldByllHyltnyr

“”Get ready for an eternity of teeth-gnashing, podnah. But what’s one more, right?”"

That’s right, judgement is His, but the Lord G-d has told us the fruits of a life of rebellion. I merely repeat for it is not my judgement.

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@Scout

For that matter, women fill all other roles offered by the military and being in “combat” does not excuse your MOS.

Do you advocate bring back the draft?

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sfd,

Well, thanks for that. And for your enjoyment, here is one of the FAQs from that website:

“Is the Pope the Antichrist?

I don’t think the Pope can be the Antichrist, because the Antichrist will likely be accepted by the Jews as their Messiah. In order to biblically qualify, the Messiah must be of Jewish origin. Because the Pope heads an organization of one billion followers, it is very logical to conclude that the Pontiff will someday fulfill a major the role in the Antichrist’s false church. “

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Wyld Byll, the freeway to Hades is paves with “good intions”, but I’ll wait at the door for you…

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“And for your enjoyment, here is one of the FAQs from that website:”

How about this one: I’ve seen, on other blogs, that “the antichrist will be everything Jesus was not”…but I wasn’t too popular when I pointed out that that seems to be saying the antichrist will be a woman!

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Paul @ 3:13
…Even later than that.

http://www.11uscavalry1940.com/

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Paul:

I hear you but in my opinion they still need a “division” ready just in case. There are many places they can get to much faster than anyone else. Even the Marines on ships takes time.

The real hard sell is going to be “combat pilots”. We are almost to the place where it can ALL be done by drones !!!

But it reminds me of something I read once that Congress had a bill that almost passed to outlaw “steam engines” as they were putting wagon wheel makers out of business ………..

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Doggone,

Where’d you see that?

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“Where’d you see that?”

sorry, I can’t remember anymore…it was just a comment someone made on a blog. It’s been a while since I’ve seen anyone make that particular comment.

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Scout,

Have you ever seen a grown man naked?

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Where are all the faux patriots that support Israel before they support the USA?
Your rationale and justification would make interesting reading.

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“You’d be amazed at the number of soldiers sitting at a desk who go out for their required jumps so they can keep that paycheck coming each month -”

What amazes ME is the number of able-bodied soldiers sitting at desks, when there are plenty of disabled Vets who could be doing the deskjobs, to free up the able-bodied soldiers for more active duty.

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Paul

Well, the army needs to be more efficient then and train those soldiers for multiple jobs, the primary being a professional paratrooper.

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Paul:

I hear you but I still think there could be a situtation where we need a good, immediate presence on the ground where a parachute drop of a brigade or two is what’s needed.

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Doggone/GA

Actually, I believe the military is much better about letting those who’ve suffered serious injuries continue on active duty, or even rotate to a combat area. Used to be it was an automatic discharge.

Normal

I was speaking of regular Army units, which is why I didn’t reference special ops. I’ve no trouble with maintaining a general capability for those guys. But for thousands and thousands of others? Puh-leeze (general eye-roll, not at all directed at you).

Mick

Yeah, so if all those helicopters break down and they have to get somewhere real quick……gotta be ready, just in case!

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Drones are part of the “love from above” campaign. Other participants are cruise missiles, J-DAMS, and whatever is the flavor of the day from the belly of a fully loaded B52. Fewer soldiers are put in harms way, but maximum firepower is still maintained on the enemy.

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@Scout

You are advocating that women should not be in the military, period.
As you know, there is no such thing as “front lines.”

Just don’t understand your rationale for Roe v. Wade in this context. Could you disassemble your concept further?

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Jackie

And my point is, that’s a theory that’s likely never to be used on any scale.

Plus, there are thousands of other soldiers with other units who schedule time each month and pull in an AF cargo plane and the costs associated with that to maintain currency so they can get jump pay. Strikes me as a capability maintained more for the pay and prestige of the members (more of what I call government employees spending money on ‘nice things we do for ourselves’) than out of any likely military necessity.

Like you said, those big drops of the past aren’t anywhere near the forefront of current thinking. But we spend gazillions on it anyway.

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And here’s the best one yet — it’s long, so I won’t copy/paste:

Does the Bible actually say that mothers should not work outside of the home?

So, all you women out there working, I hate to tell you this…..you are all sinners.

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eliminate, or at least drastically reduce (by about 95%) parachute training. But the Army loves that tradition as much as they loved their horses in the 1930s.

Whaa? They don’t ride horses anymore? What kind of military is that? No wonder they think we are soft. I mean, it certainly isn’t because we are over-stretched fighting two wars (using mostly our national guard and reserves instead of regular troops) while still manning bases in Germany (protect against those evil shopkeepers!), Italy (protecting against caffeine-ravaged Italian men!), and even Antarctica (evil penguins!! the evilest of evils).

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sfd,

Did you know that Cain married his sister? But it was okay back then because our genes weren’t bad and incest was okay until Eve screwed up and ate that apple.

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Scout – “b) Roe vs. Wade must be overturned. For the “state” to draft a man’s body for two years against his will and send him to be killed while the “state” cannot control a woman’s body for nine months to protect the life of an innocent baby is in my opinion just plain “unequal protection under the law” and therefore Unconstitutional.”

By that statement are you saying that males are an endangered species?

What exactly do you think women do while their husbands are at war?

I have no problem being drafted, as a woman. But as a mother; I would object to being drafted.

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Bosch

“Did you know that Cain married his sister? ”

Wherezitsaythat? Kinda ewwwwww……………..

Honestly, hasn’t anyone ever heard of ‘allegory’?

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@Paul

Helicopters are short-range transport vehicles that can carry maybe an infantry squad. C-130’s and C-17’s can carry many more and travel long distances plus have refueling capabilities.

I can appreciate your desire to reduce military costs, but will disagree with you concerning the diminution of the airborne capabilities.

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Paul,

“You’re getting awful close to ridiculing others because of their beliefs, if not ridiculing their beliefs (and they are kinda harmless, after all)”

WHAT? I’m not ridiculing anyone! How dare you. I’m offended, where’s my swooning pillows and smelling salts?

But, yes, I’m done. I read all the FAQs, and they were very informative.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pogo,

I can’t remember what I ate for breakfast, so if you don’t mind, could you find some footage of the hearings or something to put the Democrats saying of Petraeus as said devil man into context? Thanks pal!

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Scout,

Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?

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Get’em Dusty!!!!

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“Then an expose’ of RAPTURE”

That was a cool Blondie song.

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Jay@3:29pm,

I served USMC, infantry and during part of the Vietnam era 61-67. Today’s troopers are every bit as good, however, to say that they are better trained would pertain only to advancement in technology. As for discipline and being more capable that wouldn’t be an accurate comparison. You may have misunderstood what some of the “old timers” were saying.

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Captain Oveour

There was some kind of service Deuce Bigelow offered that had something to do with Turkish. I just can’t remember what it was.

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Bosch

You’re gonna expose Blondie?

I hope you mean the singer and not the guy in my comics page.

She’s hot, he’s…. well, that’s just weird.

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Paul,

“the guy in my comics page.”

That guy makes a good sandwich

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Paul???? Blondie in the comics is a guy?? Dagwood’s gonna be surprised.

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Today wasn’t as bad as the past few days. I actually had time to grab a bite to eat today. Business was starting to pick up when I got off though. The night shift usually catches hell.

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Well Bosch, they didn’t exactly call him “Ole Slewfoot” per se, but, the whole DRAMA was pretty much in the context of “look how superior we are to you and let us point out the fallacy of your war mongering ways” kind of thing. Just google Petraeus and congressional hearings and if you are a self-masochistic kind of person and you can even watch this boring crap, you will see what I am talking about. It was embarrassing for this arrogant bunch of gaseous windbags who only care about their political arses (and nothing else) to be belittling a man that has dedicated his whole life, right or wrong, to the sole purpose of defending this country. At least he did believe in SOMETHING which is far more than I can say about these tirds (I know, it is mispelled). I guess I am growing very weary of politicians of any ilk. Frankly, they make me sick.

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@Dusty

Do you think the words that are spoken in public about matters of state are a complete and definitive definition of the problem and associated resolution?

What was said by Gen. Petraeus said publicly is only part of the discussion that has taken place.

Weren’t you one of those that supported Gen. Petraeus and President Bush visa-vie the surge strategy , now you are trying to diminish his plan and the work the professional military has put into serving the best interest of the USA?

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Dusty

Aaarrrgghhhhhhh! I am sooo chagrined!

No recovering from that one –

Jackie

Exactly!

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Pogo,

Well, as I remember the whole thing, Petraeus was up there to answer questions, and there were plenty of clusterf*cks in the whole thing to criticize him on, and not to offend here, but knowing your political views, I’d say that any harsh words given to Petraeus by a person with a (D) after his name, would be interpreted by those of you who lean rightward as an outrage. And of course, any criticism to the current POTUS is hunky dory with you, because of course, they are justified and not twisted, etc. etc. — not to speak for you, of course, correct me if I’m wrong, please.

With that said, I have had nothing but respect for the General, and the whole “Betraeus” thing made me just as po’ed as you – probably more.

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Paul,

Only caught your Grenada reference. There still exits potential scenarios where you need rapid deployment of Airborne Light Infantry.

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evenin’ josef!!

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Disgusted

They’re gonna have to learn how to spell it first -

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Where is the “Sunlight” in Obama’s administration? He said it was going to be the most transparent but he revokes the “Freedom of Information Act” more often than any other recent president. Makes one wonder, what is this fool hiding? Oh I think we know. If you don’t have the substance you must rely on lies and secrecy. An old trick.

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Matilda, Mick

Never underestimate the brilliance of the Democratic Political Machine. They know and completely understand the significance that hate has played in governments gaining huge amounts of control. It has worked perfectly for so many power hungry people, how could they NOT take this tac. They understand that politics ride primarily for Democrats on emotion. It’s not like the terms Hope and Change reflected any sort of logical approach to a reason to support a candidate.

Hate is the strongest emotion. The Democrats, like every other political force in history that is seeking to obtain more and more power understand how strong the hate emotion is. They understood it in the 50s and 60s and 70s, but when they realized they had the planation built, furnished and well underway, they could no longer hate Black people. This was a huge disappointment. Yes, they would still completely own 95% of the Black vote, but that missing element of hate cost the democrats congress back in 1994, so they had to find another race to hate.

Racial hatred has been a goldmine for the Democrats. And they simply needed someone else to hate. Jewish people are an easy target. They have been hated before. The stereotypes were already in place. AND MANY OF THEM WERE RICH!!! it was a match made in heav . . . . OK, maybe not heaven, but it was a perfect match.

That’s my take on the situation. You probably feel differently, but I think if you look at my approach with an open mind, you will at least agree with the premise.

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To Del @ 4:06 ………..

Jay has “no concept”. He’s like those guys who spill their beer yelling at a pro quarterback when they’ve never even set foot on a football field.

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josef nix

Actually, you answered them in your response after you looked over the test.

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AmVets

**I’ll ask again, if libs hate the Jews so much, why do Jews always overwhelming vote for Democrats?**

Who do the Democrats own 95% of the Black vote when they were beaten, had dogs siced on them and have endured one of the worst destructions of a family structure in modern history, all done blatantly by democrats?

Why?

Control of every single media outlet before 1992 had a lot to do with it. But to be honest, it’s because the democratic Political Machine is just that good.

But the scary thing? The strongest, most powerful Democratic Political, leave a list of dead people, political machine the world has ever known: the Clinton Machine, didn’t have a prayer against these Chicago thugs that we have in Washington now.

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@NIF

If the Jewish population is so reviled by Dems, why do they vote for the Dems in overwhelming numbers, consistently?

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Jackie:

1) “You are advocating that women should not be in the military, period.
As you know, there is no such thing as “front lines.”

Let me use this example. Women are in pro-football ……… management, administrative, trainers and other places where they are capable and needed. The don’t play in the games because each team wants “the best” on the field..

Women should be in the military. They should not be in combat.

2) “Just don’t understand your rationale for Roe v. Wade in this context. Could you disassemble your concept further?”

O.K. Let me try it this way.

a) It is a total invasion of a woman’s right to privacy (according to the Supreme Court) for the “state” to tell her she has to carry a child to term. In other words, the “state” is controlling her body against her wishes for nine months. The court ruled the state couldn’t do that as it would be unconstitutional.

b) In my opinion, it is even more of an invasion of a man’s right to privacy to force him for two years to go into the military to fight in a war he doesn’t even believe in where he may be killed or maimed for life. Yet not only did the court find “that” was Constitutional but they ruled in a later case that women couldn’t be drafted.

That is not “equal protection under the law” ! You can’t force a woman to protect an unborn life but you can force a man to go give his …………………

Now, if you can’t understand those two concepts I can’t help you any further.

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@Dusty

The General staff has the same security clearance as probably does the President. With that being said, does he speak out against the country he is sworn to protect to make political points?

Do you think our friends in the Middle East has a right to insult the USA and expect us to continue to offer subsistence and military support without question?

You are a citizen of what country?

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Scout,

Go back and read my 3:41 – and you too Jackie – learn something………

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“*If the Jewish population is so reviled by Dems, why do they vote for the Dems in overwhelming numbers, consistently?**”

Yeah, Jackie, see? It’s all about machines.

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Scout,

A lot of people who haven’t served believe that the military changes its culture with each new generation. While that’s is true to an extent that change is really only on the surface at the core it remains mostly the same and those who serve find that they have to adapt to it not the other way around. It is particulary true with Core of the Marine Corps that will remain old military until the day, Good Lord forbid, it’s disbanded. Semper Fi

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@NIF

Trying to equate the current Dems with those in the past does not have validity. How many folks do you think support those who acted in such a vicious and vile way to suppress our Constitutional rights, then switched to the Repubs because they could get elected again.

A specious analogy.

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NIF,

Machines……machines………it’s all machines……..machines……..machines…………see?

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Del:

You, I and those like us know that. It’s too bad the “civilians” don’t.

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I’ll do my part to get us over 200 so the fear of being top won’t stop the fun…

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Scout

According to Westmoreland, we were in Nam to keep the Chi-coms from dominating the shipping lanes in the region. We did that quite nicely. Politics and the media directed our departure, but by then, the shipping lanes were secure and still are.

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NIF

So Army General Westmoreland thought the way to keep sea lanes open was to commit to a land war in Asia?

I think you’ve just answered the question of whether or not today’s military is smarter than the military of 40 years ago -

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Sorry, NIF

These are the machines Bosch was thinking of

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tvacres.com/images/robots_cylons_humanoid.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tvacres.com/aliens_cylons.htm&usg=__tII59eeB440oCvIQbM6NAkLVXFA=&h=400&w=300&sz=113&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=cmXhfX85P23STM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcylons%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enUS343US344%26tbs%3Disch:1

http://dialogicdesign.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/cylon-evolution.jpg

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Jackie,

Keep up the counseling. There’s more to be learned.

Bosch,

Methinks you started imbibing a bit early this afternoon. Something “ate your head” and it wasn’t Blondie.

Ahhh and now the BIG question!! Did the evil hands of the clock set stage for my rapturous deluxe family dinner forthcoming??? Yes, they did! A pox on them! Off to the freezer! Let us settle this great dilemma? Fish sticks?? Mini steaks? Nooo! It’s a surge to spaghetti. (See how easy it is to settle these big problems.)

Calll the UN if you have any more questions.

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Kinda slow, so…

“One year into its promise of greater government transparency, the Obama administration is more often citing exceptions to the nation’s open records law to withhold federal records even as the number of requests for information decline, according to a review by The Associated Press of agency audits about the Freedom of Information Act.

Among the most frequently cited reasons for keeping records secret: one that Obama specifically told agencies to stop using so frequently. The Freedom of Information Act exception, known as the “deliberative process” exemption, lets the government withhold records that describe its decision-making behind the scenes.

Obama’s directive, memorialized in written instructions from the Justice Department, appears to have been widely ignored. ”

Can’t even get the bureaucracy to do what he wants? Well, I can see why his administration wouldn’t want the public to see the processes they use –

“PROMISES, PROMISES: Records not so open with Obama”

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EFRPJG0&show_article=1

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Mughrabi was the leader of a Fatah PLO terror squad armed with Kalashnikov rifles, RPG light mortars and high explosives, that sailed from Lebanon and landed on a beach between Haifa and Tel Aviv. They first killed a renowned American photojournalist (who was incidentally the niece of U.S. Democratic party Senator Abraham Ribicoff) who was taking nature photos, then hijacked a bus and commandeered another, embarking on a bloody rampage that left 38 Israeli civilians dead, 13 of them children.

Fatah representatives at the ceremony on Thursday described Mughrabi as “a courageous fighter who held a proud place in Palestinian history.”

Just sayin….

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Jay, if Israel stopped all construction, agreed to turn over the West Bank and open Gaza, the Arabs and Palestinians will never make peace, because they will never accept Israel’s existence. They will continue to make war as long as they have support and people look the other way.

Paul, your comments on needed capabilities, their effectiveness, costs, and employment in conflicts confirm that you have an opinion on most everything but know next to nothing about the subject.

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Paul

His great strategy was to defeat the Cong with a war of attrition. You are going to defeat people who are dirt poor by denying them their supplies? What supplies? by the end of the war, more GIs were dying of wounds from American rifles taken by the Cong, than of the AKs they were supposed to be using.

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Charlie

Soooooo…..

do a point counter-point.

you up for it?

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Maltilda: Thank you for your kind words but you are a rare example.

Drain The Swamp (NIF) : Good point. Also, remember if the DMZ in Vietnam (53 miles wide) had been bounded on the west by the Sea of Laos, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

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“it is always a good idea to lower your expectations”

It makes no difference, I don’t believe ANY politicians promises. If God himself came to earth and ran for political office, I’d stop believing him too. Because once a someone becomes a politician, I lose my ability to believe any promises they make.

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Charlie Rangel

Hello?

Hello?

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AmVet–

I know you want a conservative answer and mine earlier was, well, a bit snippy. American Jews, generally speaking, are of the left liberal bent, the immigrations following the Revolutions of 1848 bringing in the Ashkenazi from Germany and Austria-Hungary in sugstantial numbers. These were urban intellectuals, educated and relatively comfortable in the mainstream society. They were welcomed by and easily assimilated into the pre-existing Sephardic element which had benefitted so greatly from the Lockeian principles of the Carolina Charter and the Virginians, Carolinians and Georgians Jeffersonian liberalism. When the flood of Eastern Europeans came beginning in the 1880s, they were drawn either from the Bundist or Zionist elements and brought with them that brand of radicalism, or from the ghetto-mentality shtettlites just trying to get out of the way of the Cossacks and with little or no political participation in the mainstream.The established Jewish communities found it incumbent to make every effort possible to assimilate into the mainstream “those people.” Every effort was made to one, temper the Socialism of the Bundists and Zionists and at the same time bring the masses into the mainstream as good American citizens. The political party end of it all would naturally have taken on a strong Democrat tinge as it was the Jeffersonian Democrats who had bucked Christian and Islamic traditions by extending unqualified equal rights of citizenship, welcomed Jews into the party and had consistently elected them to public office. Thus, Woodrow Wilson’s actions. The Bundist-Zionists and the unassimilated could see that there was an opening there to be something besides “Jews.”

Tradition!

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Drain The Swamp (NIF):

Two more points:

1) We are to China now what we were to Japan in the 1930’s. Stand-by for action.

2) I’m sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong at your 5:26.

Not only had the American Army been gone for three years when the country fell to the North, but the Viet Cong were decimated during TET 1968. The North Vietnamese actually intended that, as they didn’t want to deal with them when “they” took over.

In addition, and there are many sources you can go to, 90% of the fighting and casualties were between the American military and the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) especially in the DMZ area and Central Highlands. The fighting with the Viet Cong (over time and in total) was only a “side-show”.

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“Republicans so much is because they actually do whet they promise”

No, they don’t. They’re politicians.

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Drain The Swamp (NIF):

Regarding your 5:33 a lot could have been done. For one thing, the dikes at Hanoi could have been bombed and the entire city flooded.

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Doggone-Politician & honesty are’nt words that go together like oil & water.

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Uh, Charlie Rangel

Your initial assertion (5:25) was that I have opinion but nothing to back it up. I asked you to substantiate.

Your response of ‘fire away’ is an attempt at specificity?

Hint: pick a post with which you disagree, which you think illustrates ‘opinion but no knowledge’ state what you think is in error and we’ll go from there.

The fact you have to change your moniker to make that comment, then use a term like “fire away” tells me all I really need to know.

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Aahhh, yes, we told the infidels at the DNC/Pentagon that we were shooting at American soldiers because y’all like thee Jews too much, ew.

And right on cue, Brother obozo, he jumps bad on the Jews. That obozo, he might be an apostate, but he is our apostate.

So, let’s see, what garbage can we feed these fools next, hmmmm – KAAAABOOOM – ah, pardon me, that was Brother Omar blowing up thee children for attending thee evil school, he warned them! Now where was I, oh yeah, how high I want thee obozo to jump?

I know, American soldiers are killing innocent children and shouldn’t be allowed to carry guns on the battlefield, quick, snap to it, carry thee word to the moron Americans, duh.

Allah Akbar!

Yes we can!

mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!

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“I once saw a list of broken Bush promises compared to a list of Clinton broken promises”

I’m not interested in comparisons. I think politicians only keep promises by mistake, or because they lost focus. They all lie and they all break their promises. That’s why I can’t get behind the “throw the bums” out movement. Because if you do throw these bums out, you’ll only be electing more bums in their place.

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Hillbilly–
Among students of the Shoah there is the Arendtian paradigm. It maintains that the process which led to the gas chambers was not some complex, unfathomable, but a most simple one played out over and over in every case of just such. It is a four-stage process. Identification. Separation. Concentration. Anihilation. First the group must be identified and determined to be harmful to the greater society. Second, that group must be psychologically and cultural defined as a separate entity in negative terminologies leading to a “need” to quarantine them from the as yet “uninfected” population which calls for the third stage, concentration. From there it is just a step to the anhilation of the “virus.”

A few years back, during the Bosnian War, a couple of my brighter ones did their social science project on “Ethnic Cleansing: Can It Happen Here.” They used the Arendtian paradigm. Their conclusion was not only could it happen here, it has happened here. They chose as their case studies the Cherokee Removals, General Grant’s General Order #11 and the Japanese Internment of WWII. They made the point that in all three cases the power structure had stopped short of stage 4 but that insofar as the first three stages were concerned, their was nothing in the legal structure of our society to prevent it happening again. The two students were a Latvian immigrant Jew and a Cherokee-Jew. They went to the state with their project. They chose it when they came to talk to me wanting to know what was happening in Bosnia, they having from their homes lessons in “keep your guard up. You never know.”

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“But just possibly we might send a message that finaly we’re payin attention and will not put up with the bs.”

Politicians are also very good at ignoring messages. Comes under the heading of breaking the promise to “listen to their constituents”

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yosef- I notice that you didn’t bother to point out to your charges that being sent up the chimney in ashes is a bit more drastic than being put up in a warm safe camp somewhere, with plenty to eat.

No wonder you have to change their test scores to get them out your hair.

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Doggone/GA

[[Politicians are also very good at ignoring messages. Comes under the heading of breaking the promise to “listen to their constituents”]]

Kinda like this health care debacle -

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“Kinda like this health care debacle -”

Yes, I agree…but I’m not sure we both mean it in the same way.

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Paul, for starters your BS comments about airborne capabilities. We maintain that capability for forced entry where helicopters, ships, airfields are not available. The capability to project force over thousands of miles can’t be accomplished by small SOF units, but it can be with a unit like the 82 ABN. The number and mix of units and people required to be parachute qualified are all considered and maintaining that capability is the cost of doing business. The Ranger Bn that parachuted into Afghanistan was part of SOF but certainly not a small unit. Jumping is part of the training so if you know specific examples of waste speak up. Sorry for the delay but some of us have to work.

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IR/YW

It reached stage 3. It’s the same process. It stopped before it reached the point of butchery, yes, but when you can do this to a class of your own citizens, you’ve already gone 3/4 of the way down the road to Sobibor, Srebenica, and Suleimanniyah. As Stalin said, “one death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic.” This is why we have to be vigilant.

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yosef- The dummycrat party has stages 1 and 2 down pat, just sayin….

Is Bookman the new Goebbels?

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Did Petraeus briefing set stage for U.S.-Israel spat?

No, “This is a test of the obama/biden system. This is only a test.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHsw4bi5xg0

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josef

I’m trying to catch up with you on languages…

אני לא יודע איך אתה להישאר אז הרגיעה עם הדברים כי אנשים לומר כאן. זה אחד הדברים אודות לכם כי אינטליגנטי אותי.

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IR/YW

I would not argue that the two political parties (and plenty of the posters here) don’t operate under the principles of Stage One and are perilously close to Stage Two.

No, I would not call Jay the “new Goebbels.” He’s nowhere that league. I would say he would have fit in well with the editorial board of the Frankfurter Zeitung in the 1930s. Now Sister Cynthia? She’d be right at home at the Voelkische Beobachter and has already amassed a rather impressive record of comments straight from the mouth of Julius Streicher.

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Scout,

Your pure white, hetero, christian army got its arse kicked in ‘Nam, your excuses withstanding….

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Franz Ferdinand..

“Jews vote Democratic because they don’t agree with the Republican platform of sexism, racism, bigotry, homophobia, and retardism of the mind…..”

This is one Jew who doesn’t vote for the Republicans for pretty much those reasons. There the same ones for which he doesn’t vote for the Democrats. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

SoCo—
And you’re doing a fine job of it!

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Charlie Rangel

I suppose part of it is, there is a group of people who think Americans need to spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year to meet just about any contingency anybody could think of anywhere in the world, acting as if we’re the only country that can do it and if we don’t, life as we know it will come to an end.

I’m not in that camp. So that means reassessing our requirements, matching up appropriate resources and cutting the rest. If that means thousands of parachutists or hundreds of drone pilots who have to go to USAF pilot training at a cost of millions, or overlapping capabilities in the various services ’cause each one is special, or even employing people to (I kid you not) actually cut news reports from papers or cut and paste from the internet, then photocopy it onto sheets of paper and circulate it around the various levels so people will know what’s going on….

all these things in spite of advances in technologies and other capabilities that render the old ways pretty well obsolete…

well, that’s what we should do.

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josef nix

[[I don’t trust the Democrats or the Republicans myself]]

Ever heard of a gentleman by the name of Ralph Nader?

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SoCo–
Ist dein Uebersetzer eine Maschine? Ein Programm? Wie heisst? Seht’s sehr gut…

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@Dusty

I will continue my counseling as long as you continue to post.
You ability to obfuscate is profound; can’t understand how you have perfected that skill?

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PAUL–
Nader lost me on one of my lunatic fringe issues…I’m the Old Jew Benjamin fro “A Canticle for Leibowitz.” I’m still waiting for the Messiah, an that ain’t him either…”tents mended here!”

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josef

Not a messiah, just an option.

None of them are going to be spot on with each issue, but in total, how do they compare?

Libertarians lost me when they became as doctrinaire as the lalalandleft and the ultraright.

Canticle? I can still see the book cover in my mind’s eye -

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PAUL–
You read “Canticle!” Unmentionable claims I’m going to Costa Rica to raise blue-headed goats and chunk rocks at anyone who comes calling!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guvo7gUdUnE

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josef nix

Sometime in the 70s. I’m a sci-fi kinda guy.

Just keep some Ibuprofen on hand for the shoulder if you have to do a lot of rock chucking. Or if the goats get testy -

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PAUL–
To answer your question, the Nader faction has a lot to offer, but however much I may agree with much of what they say, and I’ll be the first to admit I’m an extremist, I don’t think they represent the rational middle road which, in my opinion, is where the bulk of our population falls. Heaven forbid I and my ilk (there you are K’chack–:-) ) ever come to power. But I do expect to be heard. When I see a third party which considers what I have to say, I will listen and may even support their candidate. I expect to be marginalized. I am from the margins…but…

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SoCo–
Sagt mir mehr zu St, Elsewhere, bitte…

Hillbilly–
One of the things I keep trying to make a point of to my fellow “labels,” is that in a democratic society where that identification stage is a matter of free will, we often, ourselves, make the move to the separation stage…emphasizing what sets us apart and not what binds us together.

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josef, just having a little fun with the right wing sociopaths on the blog.

It’s evil (but fun) watching them squirm when they cannot just slogan their way out of an obvious problem – as in American Jews voting against (almost always) their sorry asses.

And they still can’t figure out why nobody likes them…

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They’re rolling Student Loan legislation into the health reform vote…….

To change over to the health care discussion for a minute, I think it long ago ceased to be about health care. Now it’s all about what happens in November and who can get the upper hand on who. That’s what disgusts me about both parties; it’s all about obtaining and/or retaining power and little else.

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Hillbilly @ 7:44

Amen, Brother Ben!

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Paul, your opinion of what’s excessive has nothing to do with facts or what’s needed. How do you know what’s excessive? To correct the record, over 200 Rangers assaulted that airfield and over 1000 from the 173d Abn based in Italy parachuted in northern Iraq. Also the need for force projection by air has not changed since Vietnam and the means haven’t significantly changed either. BTW, jump status isn’t maintained unless you’re in a unit and there is no such thing as a career of drawing hazardous duty pay. Where do you get this stuff?

The type and mix of capabilities, regardless of service, is analyzed and re-analyzed every year and every bureaucrat in DC gets a say so. Regardless of your preconceived notions, nobody has the luxury of wasting billions on maintaining unnecessary capabilities.

We haven’t fired a single nuclear missile, but we spend billions to maintain that capability, don’t we?

I don’t know if you’re self-employed or not, but, if not, whoever is paying your salary is getting screwed. See you around if I find something interesting you’ve said that’s wrong. Good night!

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Many thanks to the American people, mainly my Texan hero, for spending much blood and treasure taking out Saddam and giving the land of Iraq to my Shiite brother Al Sadr

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Del–
I have to agree with you on that one. It’s something the State of Israel knows, whether the Jews of America want to accept it at face value or not. I am reminded of an ecumenical conference I was at when in college. The fundamentalist had “gone off” on their theological requirement that there must be a secular state in Israel for the Temple to be rebuilt and the Jews to call for the “return” of the Messiah. The Jewish participants countered rather vociferously and an argument not-quite-so-ecumenical appeared in the offing. The cabbalist rabbi rose to speak, “when the Messiah gets here, I don’t think it’s going to greatly matter whether it’s for the first or the second time. He’s going to be p*ssed.” Pretty much my line of thought.

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josef,

Just checked back in. believe it or not at my ripe old age I have a a 3 year old daughter among grandkids. We had to get her ready for bed. I’m not one to preach fire and brim stone but I think we’ve turned away from God and America is feeling the pain.

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Del–
As I said to Dusty last p.m., I tend to get a little on the introspective side this time of year as to what “all that” means in the historical and cultural sphere of existence (the spiritual comes in the fall). We have reached a point in our society where one feels almost apologetic if one dares to call oneself a believer. I have no idea what G-d is. Bruno made the point the other night that Maimonides said that we can only begin to define H-m (bowing here to the Judeo-Christian tradition of the third person singular masculine) by what H- is not. That said, in my worldview, there must be S-mething there greater than us. See it as one will. In essence, to me, it is that J-dge of how we conducted ourselves while in our time and place and did we leave it better for our having passed through. In moving away from that, we have left ourselves rudderless. I can accept the nonbelievers contention that they do the right thing because it is the right thing, but my question is, and Wh- tells you what is the right thing? There are all matter of “answers,” but there seems to be a fear of using the word “G-d” to refer to that “it…”

And, then again, it’s probably just the wine a’talking…

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Josef,

I believe from my own experience that everyone who has an open mind and heart will be reached by God at some point in their lives and the experience will be very real. Sometimes his reach might seem harsh at the time but his intention is based in his love for all of us regardless of who we are and what our sins may be.

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Mabus :

I have a life long friend that was an office on the USS Liberty in 1967. He was wounded. 34 sailors died and to this day there has never been an official Congressional inquiry.

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Del–
I am reminded by your post of a Lilly Tomlin routine when her bag lady says, “Why is it when you talk to G-d, you’re praying; but when G-d talks to you, you’re a paranoid schizophrenic.”

In relation to the dual nature of G-d and why bad things happen to good people, I consider myself blessed to have been born into a faith and a tradition which not only permits, but demands, that we question G-d on this.

Did you catch “G-d on Trial” on PBS? If not, it’s accessible now on Youtube…

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Hillbilly–
Not a Baptist myself, I nonetheless accept the concept of the epiphany…I just don’t limit it to once. I think it should come with every breath we draw…Granddaddy taught that it is not so much do we accept G-d, but does G-d accept us…

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josef,

Nice conversation you guys are having….hate to butt in, but I’ve always thought of praying as talking to God, and being quite (or meditating) is an opportunity for God to talk to you. I’ve had this conversation with Doggone and Bruno before, but I don’t think people know how to pray anymore – it’s like a Christmas list – they just ask for things or ask for things to be good in their life. Sometimes I think we don’t understand the good unless we have some of the bad. I also don’t like it when people ask me to pray for a particular person. It seems rather selfish – like God will somehow favor them if they get enough prayers – and if it doesn’t work out, then what? You didn’t pray enough? I’ve always thought that was kind of weird, and it makes me uncomfortable.

Anywho….my two cents for what it’s worth.

Del,

Grandkids and a three year old? Way to go. I have a new found appreciation for you.

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Sometimes I think we don’t understand the good unless we have some of the bad

I look at it as a parent/child relationship. When we were children our parents often did things that we didn’t like and we didn’t understand but it was what was best for us. And speaking from experience, sometimes something bad can show you what’s really important. We all need an attitude adjustment from time to time.

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This kind of thing irritates me:

Law would require drug test for unemployment assistance

http://www.ajc.com/news/law-would-require-drug-376097.html

I think if the lawmakers want that for others, since they too receive state money, they should be drug tested themselves, and any business owner that receives a tax cut….same thing. Why single out one group of people who receive state money for drug testing?

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Bosch @ 10:42

But at least you are smart enough to know it.

I used to know a man (he’s passed on now) who told me, “I’m crazy as hell and I know it, but there’s a lot of people who are crazy as hell and don’t know it, and that’s what causes most of the problems in the world.”

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Off to dream world, hopefully – pleasant evening!

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Matilda

**WHY ON EARTH would they vote for someone whose promises would not be good for them? Just curious as to your theory.**

If a person is not self motivated and needs the assistance of the government, Republicans wouldn’t want your vote. It’s better to you stick to the people who want government deeply involved in your life.

Remember the old Pro-abortionsit mantra: keep the government out of my body? I guess this new health care plan will put a stop to that way of thinking once and for all.

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Paul

**They’re rolling Student Loan legislation into the health reform vote…….

talk about grasping….**

Nobody is grasping. Whoever controls student loans controls the future of every college and University in the country.

Do you want to go to Bob Jones University? We don’t think that Bob jones has the right outlook toward a person’s personal freedoms. Sorry, your loan is refused.

So you want to go to Berkley? Say you want to major in anti-American studies? How much money do you think you will need?

Do you really think that this won’t happen?

This is after his first year. In three more years, we won ‘t recognize this country.

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Del, Josef, Bosch

Enjoyed the discussion. Hopefully, I get my points across well enough that y’all can understand them, whether you agree with them or not. As for taking offense, it’s all in the track record of how somebody has treated you. You can pretty well tell when somebody is trying to get a rise out of you or whatever. And we all say things we either didn’t mean or didn’t express the way we wanted to. Everytime I see some politician fall on the “gotcha” sword, I’m thankful all my past ramblings aren’t on tape somewhere.

Time to go, night all.

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As much as I’d like to stay and chat, tomorrow is the St. Pat’s Day dance fot the little ones and I have to chaperone…oy! I really enjoyed this latter part of the evening…a sense of balance…y’all sleep in peace…

And JAY–I hope you’re happy…see where it wound up? I’m happy…will sleep in peace knowing that there is the possibility of living in peace and harmony…thanks for the opportunity to get to that point, and I mean that no sarcasm intended……

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@ Paul on the ‘viability’ of maintaining an Airborne-qualified force…
Sorry I have been out of the loop most of the day–I’ve been at work too.
Well, let’s see…to offer a correction to your 3:21 post–there has been (as others have already mentioned) other large-scale airborne operations conducted by the U.s. Army since WWII:
-Operation ‘Urgent Fury’ in Grenada, 1983
-Operation ‘Just Cause’ in Panama, 1989
-The ‘aborted at the last-minute’ planned invasion of Haiti in 1994 (When GEN Raul Cedras caved in at the last moment, as the lead C-141B’s (with the DRB from the 82nd Airborne) were roughly 10 minutes out from the drop zone.
- The newly-reconstituted 173rd Airborne Brigade’s combat jump into Bashur Drop Zone, in Mosul (Northern Iraq) in 2003.
All of these ‘Combat Jumps’ underscore the necessity for a capability that is still to this day considered vitally important within the US Military–’Forced Entry’ Capability.
On the tactical level, there will always be a situation that in order to gain numerical superiority, commanders must be able to mass a suficient amount of ‘combat power’ at the right time and the right location. Bringing in large numbers of troops overland by truck, or as you have suggested, by helicopter or Osprey, often are not practical.
First off, airlanding troops (by whatever other type of airframe) requires a planned (and defendable) airstrip for operations, planned re-fueling locations (along the air-route corridor), and an extensive logistical tail for maintenance issues (and with rotary-wing aircraft, they DO happen). Not to mention that the number of helicopters it takes to airlift just ONE infantry rifle battalion (640 soldiers, roughly), not including attached “slice” elements, is well over 30 Blackhawks (UH-60’s) and a number of larger Chinooks (CH-47’s). The sheer size of a landing zone large enough to handle that amount of aircraft is usually non-existant. Extremely large airborne units (Brigade sized) can deposit a huge volume of troops literally onto the objective and continually reinforce it with subsequent drops (providing the DZ is secure and no enemy AA).
When the cost of a single helicopter is in the millions, the risk of possibly losing multiple aircraft from groundfire in a unprepared HLZ (helicopter landing zone), amplified by the time it takes to land, unass the troops, then bring in the next chalk–quite often devolves into a course of action not easily endorsed by the senior commander on the ground.
Amassing ample combat power from the start is key to any invasion plan. The forced-entry capability of units like the 82nd Airborne Division, 173rd Airborne Brigade, and the 75th Ranger Regiment (all 3 battalions) is just what the doctor ordered. They are trained and equipped to execute a ‘vertical envelopment’ of the battlespace with little to no preparation of their landing site; close with and destroy the enemy forces arrayed against them; and remain in position for up to 72 hours until they are relieved by a larger, more well-equipped force brought into the area of operations by other, more conventional means.
The concept of airborne operations may seem antiquated, yes; however the need or viability of such a technique in today’s non-linear battlefield demands we retain it among our current force-projection capabilities.
We don’t keep this because we’re traditionally-minded softies or that we love handing out jump-pay, or that chicks just melt when they see a paratrooper in bloused, shiny Corcoran jump boots–we do this because it is needed.
Take some time off from your job and go out to Fort Bragg and visit the division public-affairs office, or better yet, the post museum. Talk to soldiers. Go find a jumpmaster and ask him to explain the ‘need’ for the US to hold onto a truly remarkable innovation of warfare. See what you find out and get back to me…

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The Wall Street Journal’s Editorial said it best:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704416904575121710380216280.html

In recent weeks, the Obama Administration has endorsed “healthy relations” between Iran and Syria, mildly rebuked Syrian President Bashar Assad for accusing the U.S. of “colonialism,” and publicly apologized to Moammar Gadhafi for treating him with less than appropriate deference after the Libyan called for “a jihad” against Switzerland.

When it comes to Israel, however, the Administration has no trouble rising to a high pitch of public indignation. On a visit to Israel last week, Vice President Joe Biden condemned an announcement by a mid-level Israeli official that the government had approved a planning stage?the fourth out of seven required?for the construction of 1,600 housing units in north Jerusalem. Assuming final approval, no ground will be broken on the project for at least three years.

But neither that nor repeated apologies from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu prevented Secretary of State Hillary Clinton?at what White House sources ostentatiously said was the personal direction of President Obama?from calling the announcement “an insult to the United States.” White House political chief David Axelrod got in his licks on NBC’s Meet the Press yesterday, lambasting Israel for what he described as “an affront.”

Since nobody is defending the Israeli announcement, least of all an obviously embarrassed Israeli government, it’s difficult to see why the Administration has chosen this occasion to spark a full-blown diplomatic crisis with its most reliable Middle Eastern ally. Mr. Biden’s visit was intended to reassure Israelis that the Administration remained fully committed to Israeli security and legitimacy. In a speech at Tel Aviv University two days after the Israeli announcement, Mr. Biden publicly thanked Mr. Netanyahu for “putting in place a process to prevent the recurrence” of similar incidents.

The subsequent escalation by Mrs. Clinton was clearly intended as a highly public rebuke to the Israelis, but its political and strategic logic is puzzling. The U.S. needs Israel’s acquiescence in the Obama Administration’s increasingly drawn-out efforts to halt Iran’s nuclear bid through diplomacy or sanctions. But Israel’s restraint is measured in direct proportion to its sense that U.S. security guarantees are good. If Israel senses that the Administration is looking for any pretext to blow up relations, it will care much less how the U.S. might react to a military strike on Iran.

As for the West Bank settlements, it is increasingly difficult to argue that their existence is the key obstacle to a peace deal with the Palestinians. Israel withdrew all of its settlements from Gaza in 2005, only to see the Strip transform itself into a Hamas statelet and a base for continuous rocket fire against Israeli civilians.

Israeli anxieties about America’s role as an honest broker in any diplomacy won’t be assuaged by the Administration’s neuralgia over this particular housing project, which falls within Jerusalem’s municipal boundaries and can only be described as a “settlement” in the maximalist terms defined by the Palestinians. Any realistic peace deal will have to include a readjustment of the 1967 borders and an exchange of territory, a point formally recognized by the Bush Administration prior to Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza. If the Obama Administration opts to transform itself, as the Europeans have, into another set of lawyers for the Palestinians, it will find Israeli concessions increasingly hard to come by.

That may be the preferred outcome for Israel’s enemies, both in the Arab world and the West, since it allows them to paint Israel as the intransigent party standing in the way of “peace.” Why an Administration that repeatedly avers its friendship with Israel would want that is another question.

Then again, this episode does fit Mr. Obama’s foreign policy pattern to date: Our enemies get courted; our friends get the squeeze. It has happened to Poland, the Czech Republic, Honduras and Colombia. Now it’s Israel’s turn.

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If Mahmoud Abbas wanted peace, he wouldn;t have rejected the sweeping concessions from former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert. That brought down Olmert and led to Netanyhau’s election.

If Mahmoud Abbas wanted peace, he wouldn’t demand resettlement of refugees in Israel, but in the West Bank. But then he might have to recognize that there were more Jewish refugees from Arab countries.

If Abbas wanted peace, he wouldn’t name a major computer center (funded partly with US money) and a square after Dalal Mugrabi, who killed 37 Israeli civilians and many children – on the 32nd anniversary of the event.

But then, nothing the Palestinians or Arab world say or do, get picked up by the media. They get a free ride, Israel is constantly horsewhipped.

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WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden is unlikely to face trial because he probably would be killed before being captured, Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday. -Urinal

I’m sure that Holder has discussed this with him, just sayin..

Sheik, Brother obozo thinks it would be better if you were not taken alive, he’s just sayin…

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This just in.

It seems as if one CAN point to LOCAL weather events as evidence of global climate change. You alarmists owe IRYW an apology.

The GORACLE hath spoken—————–

“Gore, the self-anointed climate change alarmist-in-chief, told supporters on a March 15 conference call that severe weather in certain regions of the country could be attributed to carbon in the atmosphere – including the recent rash of rainy weather.

But Gore had a specific example in mind. He explained this recent soaking in the Northeastern United States was “consistent” with what global warming alarmists were projecting.”

http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2010/03/audio-al-gore-points-to-local-weather.html

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We’ll call the frisky Chicagoans who don’t accept their new plight and fight for their people “evil terrorists” and we’ll call anyone who doesn’t call them “evil terrorists” terrorists too!

fixed yer typo.

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If it’s cool outside today, global warming must be a sham.

“We don’t need no stinkin’ science.”

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Paul – 7:35 – ohfercryingoutloud – you know better than that. there’s a world of difference between pointing to weather PATTERNS and pointing to the thermometer right now.

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dB – “It’s been a lonnng time since the WSJ’s editorial page was anything more than a fever swamp”

2 words: Rupert. Murdoch.

that’s all you need to say about “quality journalism”

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2 words: Rupert. Murdoch.

I dunno, it was a pretty nutty place before Rupe took it over. Their idea of providing equal time for the left was to publish Alexander C0ckburn’s op-eds, back in the 80s.

Which more or less allowed them to justify saying more or less anything in the service of rightie dogma because, after all, they allowed an actual Communist an open forum. (Kind of clever, actually.)

Note how I continue to specify their editorialists as offenders–there is still good work going on in their actual news pages. Problem is, of course, with print going bye-bye the bright line between news and editorial becomes much more difficult for casual web-surfers to ascertain.

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WASHINGTON – Buyers, beware: President Barack Obama says his health care overhaul will lower premiums by double digits, but check the fine print.

Premiums are likely to keep going up even if the health care bill passes, experts say. If cost controls work as advertised, annual increases would level off with time. But don’t look for a rollback. Instead, the main reason premiums would be more affordable is that new government tax credits would help cover the cost for millions of people

Duh.

Everyone stupid enough to believe the Liar in Chief (go ahead dimwits, do not be shy) , sign here________________________.

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Now it’s all about what happens in November and who can get the upper hand on who. That’s what disgusts me about both parties

HD, if you’re around, and with all customary due respect, “both parties” didn’t set out saying that they were going to make this the other guy’s “Waterloo.” One party took office with a mandate from voters to effect specific changes. You can hardly expect them not to fight back when attacked, and it could be argued that the Dems didn’t fight back ferociously enough, early enough.

(Then again, at least one crazy polling-analyst says that there really wasn’t much the Dems could’ve done from a negotiating standpoint to make things come out any different at this point, so what do I know.)

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sfd

[[One party took office with a mandate from voters to effect specific changes. ]]

Given the dissatisfaction among the public with the current offering (’we support reform, but this ain’t it’) do you think it might be similar to a family who tells a contractor to replace the kitchen appliances, then they get presented with a bill to replace the appliances, rip out the laminate countertops and install granite, pull up the flooring and install tile, etc.?

I think Dems had a mandate for change, but the competing interests within the Party each took it as a green light to proceed with their pet ideas and in doing so, alienated many of the people who voted for them.

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Paul – “‘course, they defined middle class as $45,000-$85000 a year, while Democrats take the middle class all the way up to $250,000 a year”

because COL is lower in TX than it is in CA, NY and DC (and probably higher than UT, ND and the like) … you have to average the ENTIRE country

and, as for Gore, he was talking weather PATTERNS, not “hey, it snowed today” …

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Given the dissatisfaction among the public with the current offering

Sorry, I don’t buy this narrative, and obviously Democrats who are working to get this passed don’t either.

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Off Topic-Dekalb county parents have every right to be upset with the proposed closing of multiple schools.Just make sure to channel that anger in a way that will be most effective,make those responsible accountable.

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but to answer Paul’s reasonable question:

do you think it might be similar to a family who tells a contractor to replace the kitchen appliances, then they get presented with a bill to replace the appliances, rip out the laminate countertops and install granite, pull up the flooring and install tile, etc.?

I don’t; I think it would be more like the contractor was told to replace the appliances, but he could only manage to provide the stove and dishwasher at the moment; the fridge was going to have to wait; and he asks, “can you live with that, until we can get a really nice fridge when the costs come down?”

And maybe the husband and older son were ok with it, but the wife and younger daughter really wanted a new fridge more than a stove and dishwasher?

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Its about time-another words business as usual.

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sfd 9:08

That’s a decent analogy. Now, add in the hype of “I said I wanted a dishwasher and you want to pay for some maid service to come in every day and take over my kitchen…” and it’s closer yet. Bleah.

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[...] Auch Jay Bookman riecht den Braten. Obwohl er Perrys Glaubwürdigkeit nicht anzweifelt schreibt er in der Atlanta Journal Constitution: [...]

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General Petraeus had distanced himself from the remarks attributed to him. He specifically denied stating that Israel has placed American lives at risk. It is true that Arabs resent Israel, but they resent her existence itself as a Jewish sovereign state, as shown by three wars they started or provoked when there were few if any settlements. They view Israel as in infidel state that has no right to exist. Some Arab elements view the U.S.the same way, as shown by continued Islamic terrorist attacks on our country.
In fact, Israel is one of our most reliable allies.
Israel provides us with real-time, vital intelligence including intelligence dealing with anti-U.S. terrorist organizations and regimes. Second, Israel participates with the U.S. in joint military exercises. Third, Israel has jointly developed with the U.S. an advanced anti-ballistic missile defense system. This provides America with the research and experience to develop additional defensive weapons systems and also protects US personnel throughout the region. Israel also permits the U.S. to stockpile arms and other vital supplies on her soil. In addition, about 70-75% of American aid to Israel is spent in the U.S., providing American jobs, supporting the American defense industry and generating economic growth. Israel was also one of the first countries to cooperate with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. She continues to help America develop counter-terrorism techniques and prevent threats. Finally, as U.S. General Craddock testified before the Senate in 2007, “In the Middle East, Israel is the U.S.’s closest ally that consistently and directly supports our interests” and is a “critical military partner.” (Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs internet, “Israel and the United States: Friends, Partners, Allies, June 1, 2007; Congressman Steve Rothman, “The dividends of U.S. Support for Israel,” The Record, April 13, 2010); Statement of General Bantz J. Craddock, Commander, U.S. European Command Before the Senate Armed Services Committee, May 17, 2007.
General Petraeus has subsequenetly reaffirmed Israel’s value as a U. S. ally. Let’s not weaken Israel’s ability to defend herself and to continue to be one of our most reliable allies.

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