What just happened in health care … and what’s next
Politico has a nice piece dissecting who lied, who exaggerated, etc. Its conclusion?
Obama exaggerated. Boehner lied. Reid was incorrect. Ryan is wrong.
An army of partisan fact checkers bombarded the media through seven hours of the health care summit with such deep thoughts — replete with cherry-picked data — confirming the adage that there’s lies, damn lies and statistics.
Some of the jabs were dead on, but some were merely meant to back up partisan talking points. Still, there were plenty of factually challenged statements
The AP’s Alan Fram lays out the history — and future — of reconciliation, the course that Democrats seem increasingly likely to pursue. He writes”
“History shows that with the tables turned, Republicans have embraced the process. Of the 22 reconciliation bills Congress has sent a president since the procedure was first used in 1980, 16 were approved by a Republican-controlled Senate, including for President George W. Bush’s big 2001 tax cut.”
The Center for Public Integrity documents the army of lobbyists recruited to fight the health-insurance reform war in Washington. “… more than 1,750 companies and organizations hired about 4,525 lobbyists — eight for each member of Congress — to influence health reform bills in 2009,” it found.
“Among industries, 207 hospitals lined up to lobby, followed by 105 insurance companies and 85 manufacturing companies. Trade, advocacy, and professional organizations trumped them all with 745 registered groups that lobbied on health reform bills, illustrating the common Washington strategy of special interests banding together to pool money and increase their influence.
Among the most visible organizations in the halls of Congress, AARP deployed 56 in-house lobbyists and two from outside firms to work the issue on behalf of its members. The pro-business U.S. Chamber of Commerce deployed 47 lobbyists, all but eight from outside firms. The corporate titans who direct the Business Roundtable deployed 40, five from outside firms, and the American Medical Association had 33, 11 from outside firms. The data also revealed that the roster of groups trying to mold legislation went far beyond corporate and health care interests to include such unlikely entities as Americans for the Arts, and the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions.”
The Wall Street Journal editorial board complains that the session was all just prelude to the already planned use of reconciliation:
“In the end, after all the bipartisan cooing, the President’s 20-minute closing argument explained where the debate really is. Democrats won the election and they are going to do what they want to do, starting next week and on a partisan vote if they can shanghai enough members.
The point of yesterday’s session was to give a soothing, moderate political gloss to a government health-care takeover that will raise costs, greatly expand the entitlement state, and reduce choice and competition—the opposite of everything Mr. Obama claims.”
And the New York Times editorial board reached a similar conclusion about the inevitability of reconciliation, if not about the bill itself:
Here is a basic fact: If the House Democrats voted tomorrow to approve the Senate bill, health care reform would become the law of the land.
The president and Speaker Nancy Pelosi should push the House to accept the fundamentally sound Senate bill. If they still cannot garner enough votes from their own caucus, they should alter the Senate bill slightly with parallel legislation that could be passed with budget reconciliation.
Mr. Obama needs to keep explaining to Americans that this health care reform is critical — to give them security, to hold down costs and ease the strain on federal budgets. His main challenge, and his best chance, for passing it is to get his own party in line.
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272 comments Add your comment
Scooter
February 26th, 2010
10:19 am
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:08 am
Too bad we can’t hook them all up with a lie detector and shock collar before they speak I’d bet none of them would want thier turn on the soap box.
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:20 am
not jimmeh – “Yesterday, unemployment claims went up. Today, the GDP shows growth.”
first of all, yesterday was first-time filers – (as is every thursday) – and, if you read the reports, they were up because the states are clearing a snow-buildup-backlog that’s similar to what we saw right after cmas …
and, as I’ll continue to say until it sinks in … unemployment is a lagging indicator – it takes an average of 2 years for unemployment to get back down to normal levels after you exit a recession.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:20 am
NIF, a while back on the blog I said if I had it to do all over again, I’d forgo my electronics degree and become a Harley Machanic…
Citizen of the World
February 26th, 2010
10:21 am
Hef @10:01, actually, yes, the Republicans did create the “Party of No” crap. Of course, they didn’t call themselves that, but they earned the title by pretending they wanted to cooperate, getting concessions in a bill (like the stimulus) and then voting no anyway! Now it looks like they’re planning to do the same with the health care reform bill. No, no, no.
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:21 am
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:17 am
Perhaps I should have been more clear. Look at Jen’s first post at 9:19. And you thought those sentiments may reveal someone with a “psycho” issue.
extremerightwing
February 26th, 2010
10:22 am
dims had a whole year where they had super majorities in both chambers of Congress and the White House and they didn’t pass their health care bill. now they are resorting to reconciliation, which it was not designed for according to Senator Byrd. this is kind of like the home team blaming the refs for a loss in a ballgame. it doesn’t pass the smell test.
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:22 am
not jimmeh – maybe someone needs decaf … ???
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
10:23 am
USinUK
If they could figure out away to do that. I would agree, but the clowns I saw yesterday at that summit couldn’t govern a Boy Scout Troop.
Kamchak
February 26th, 2010
10:23 am
Mr. Chak…..I wouldn’t even know what station to tune in to listen to Rush. I have no interest in what he has to say. Never listened to him, never read him, never watched him.
Didn’t say you did–I said you share his obsession.
Ewwwwwwwww.
My problem is our so-called leaders ramming legistlation down our throats.
That may well be, butt, (pun intended) it was the other end that you are obsessed with. Why are conservatives fixated on the “bend over” metaphor?
If it could pass on it’s own, fine, but to begin manipulating the system is not kosher. From either party.
Using that particular metaphor is not equivalent to “manipulating the system.”
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:23 am
Doggone/GA
February 26th, 2010
10:09 am
As you are so often fond of saying, do you have a link with that “HELL no” republican quote?
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:24 am
Normal – “NIF, a while back on the blog I said if I had it to do all over again, I’d forgo my electronics degree and become a Harley Machanic…”
I’d love to be a baker … except for the hours …
Well
February 26th, 2010
10:25 am
What is a lie, if not simply a truth that has been distorted and twisted to the point where it may or may not remotely resemble truth any longer. So, clearly, all lies are actually truth.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:25 am
From Mark Twain…
HEALTH
He had had much experience of physicians, and said “the only way to keep your health is to eat what you don’t want, drink what you don’t like, and do what you’d druther not.”
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:26 am
NIF – “the clowns I saw yesterday at that summit couldn’t govern a Boy Scout Troop”
well, criminey, most of them haven’t ever held down much of a real job (BOTH sides of the aisle, mind you) – what do you ’spect???
Williebkind
February 26th, 2010
10:26 am
Obama once again proved the progressive liberals are attempting to create a sociallist government. How can you AJC bloggers keep blaming the conservatives when it is the democratic party that can not pull together to pass this outrageous healthcare bill? The progressive liberals sure are patient! Pass the healthcare bill then lose the elections and wait again to get control of congress and pass some more progressive bills. I think the democrats are trying to take back their party. If I am correct, Obama will become a lame duck president in his third year.
Finn McCool
February 26th, 2010
10:27 am
I’d love to be a baker … except for the hours …
I’d love to be a conservative, but alas, I must take the high road instead.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:27 am
Another from ol’ Mark…
There are people who strictly deprive themselves of each and ever eatable, drinkable and smokable which has in any way acquired a shady reputation. They pay this price for health. And health is all they get for it. How strange it is. It is like paying out your whole fortune for a cow that has gone dry.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
10:28 am
Lord Help Us
**Does “buy the crap, shut up and just go along with what you are being told by the government and corrupt media” refer to ANY legislation that comes thru Congress or just legislation from the Dems**
There are ways to tell what is crap and what is legit. It it breaks the bank, raises taxes and the majority of Americans are against that particular bill, it is crap. This is crap.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:28 am
OK Jay, My 1027 narrowed it down. Whay was this quote moderated? Blog God be crazy, me thinks…
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:29 am
Normal – I’ll see your Mark Twain and raise you a Will Rogers:
“Democrats never agree on anything, that’s why they’re Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans.”
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
10:29 am
Finn Not Col
**I’d love to be a conservative,**
We know. Sorry. Some are smart enough. Some aren’t.
But now we understand the bitterness.
Pennsylvanian
February 26th, 2010
10:31 am
Normal – Good luck with the Boss, Two, brother. NIF – Late Harleys are very reliable. Harley mechanics make money because people spend a lot on their toys. I just paid $1200 for stage 1 upgrades and dyno tune.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
10:31 am
USinUK
**well, criminey, most of them haven’t ever held down much of a real job (BOTH sides of the aisle, mind you) – what do you ’spect???**
See? We do agree on stuff.
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:31 am
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:03 am
Your analogy doesn’t make since.
You said that if US corporations did not have to pay for health care they would invest that money back into the business creating job growth. I was merely pointing out that the same concept would apply to an equitable corporate tax cut. If they pay less in taxes, then they’ll invest that money back into the business. (I’m for neither of the above, by the way).
What you failed to do is identify just where the money will come from to pay for a socialized healthcare package. If you want businesses to no longer pay for healthcare, well then just who will? (I know it’s me and a couple hundred more million citizens, but I just want to hear what you say).
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
10:32 am
Nuttin’, then be honest…the difference is how YOU see it…
BTW: GWB’s tax cuts don’t pass your own litmus test…(hint: that legislation ‘broke the bank’)
Doggone/GA
February 26th, 2010
10:34 am
“do you have a link with that “HELL no” republican quote?”
Nope
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:35 am
USinUK, my favorite Will Rogers..
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:35 am
Doggone/GA
February 26th, 2010
10:34 am
Didn’t think so. Just your opinion in quotation marks. LOL!!
SOUTHERN ATL
February 26th, 2010
10:38 am
Members of Congress will never have to worry about healthcare because WE THE CITIZENS have them covered…We pay the premiums with our tax dollars.If they had to pay the expensive premiums or be denied care, the circumstances/arguments would be more balanced…
Federal Employees Health Benefits Program
As soon as members of Congress are sworn in, they may participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). The program offers an assortment of health plans from which to choose, including fee-for-service, point-of-service, and health maintenance organizations (HMOs). In addition, Congress members can also insure their spouses and their dependents.
Not only does Congress get to choose from a wide range of plans, but there’s no waiting period. Unlike many Americans who must struggle against precondition clauses or are even denied coverage because of those preconditions, Senators and Representatives are covered no matter what – effective immediately.
And here’s the best part. The government pays up to 75 percent of the premium. That government, of course, is funded by taxpayers, the same taxpayers who often cannot afford health care themselves.
Read more at Suite101: Health Care for U.S. Congress: Politicians Receive the Country’s Best Care – at Taxpayers’ Expense http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/health_care_for_the_us_congress#ixzz0gelwL7PT
RW-(the original)
February 26th, 2010
10:38 am
I’m pretty sure Harry Reid’s exclamation that nobody was talking about reconciliation falls under the lie category since Harry Reid is on tape from six days earlier saying they might use reconciliation.
How about Obama’s little demonization of insurance when he said he was just out of school and driving a beater? He said he bought the minimum legal insurance and then when he got rear ended his insurance company laughed at him rather than pay to get his car fixed. That’s pretty telling because if he bought minimum coverage it would only cover damage he did to someone else and if he was rear ended, as he claims, the other drivers insurance should have been the one to call. Do we really want someone who has that degree of understanding “reforming” our health care coverage?
Hot Air gave this one the Obamateurism of the Day
Doggone/GA
February 26th, 2010
10:38 am
“Just your opinion in quotation marks”
Well, sort of. It’s a quote, very famous one in the South, which I took the liberty of attributing to the party of no.
Scooter
February 26th, 2010
10:38 am
I bought a Honda 750K
Riding a Honda is like riding a fat girl because it is fun and you don’t want your friends to know you did it.
Dave R.
February 26th, 2010
10:39 am
Normal, my favorite Groucho Marx quote:
“I won’t join any club that would have me as a member”.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
10:40 am
Normal
**NIF, a while back on the blog I said if I had it to do all over again, I’d forgo my electronics degree and become a Harley Machanic…**
The one I owned was an AMF. They should have stuck to making bowling balls. When I sold it, it had a bolt lose in the tranny and I still got enough to buy a really nice 750K. I finally gave up riding after the 10,000th close call. My problem is that I loved the speed.
I learned how to work on cars by owning 5 Fiats. Only the last one was really bad, a 128, the forerunner of the Yugo. We bought it new and the next morning, there was a puddle of oil under the car. Almost a quart had leaked out. It required a complete engine swap and they NEVER got it right. But I loved the 850 Spyder and the 124 Sport Coupe. The 124 was a screamer. Two webers, big cams, Abarth Exhaust which sounded perfect at about 7,000 rpms.
Mick
February 26th, 2010
10:40 am
NIF
America is still a great country, the germany comparision is a non starter. I like president obama, tear him down all you want, that is your right. He did choose to tackle a tough issue. This thing with the teleprompter exposes if you are a cheap shot artist. Substance is what I’m looking for and I do applaud the stimulus and disagree with afghanistan.
Here’s a thought, the way some rag on the president here just see if you can start a political career and rise to be elected president. In all fairness, it take a herculean effort, thick skin and a heckuva an ego to make it. Once you arrive as md likes to state they give you the holy shi**ite file and then you proceed to carry the weight of the country for four years. I did not care for bush but he served this country and did the best he could. I respect that he’s letting this president find his way without injecting his views into the media.
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:40 am
Normal – that’s mine, too!
not jimmeh – just pointing out that corporate taxes are needed to support the services they use (as opposed to funds used to provide health care benefits). as for where the money comes from, we pay National Insurance which covers our NHS and SS. (and my total taxes are roughly the same as what I paid in the US)
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:41 am
DAve R – great quote and great motto!!
ty webb
February 26th, 2010
10:41 am
being a member of neither party, I could really get behind this whole “Party of No”. Where can I sign up. I only wish we heard more of it in the past, and hope to hear even more in the future(regardless of who’s president).
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:41 am
Dave R.
February 26th, 2010
10:39 am
Dave,
That’s why I’m not in politics…
Dave R.
February 26th, 2010
10:42 am
Ooooh, Scooter, you’re gonna get into so much trouble with your 10:38!
Whacks Eloquent
February 26th, 2010
10:42 am
SOUTHERN ATL @ 10:38,
Thanks a lot for reminding me of that travesty! What the hell have they done that they deserve any kind of extended lifetime benefits? Seriously. And I don’t give a darn which side came up with it, nobody has tried to shut it down, so all are equally guilty IMO. Wish SCOTUS would take up that one, but who will bring it before them?
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
10:45 am
Let’s look at the bills that have been passed using reconciliation:
Wikipedia says Reconciliation bills have included:
* Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, Pub.L. 96-499 (1980)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, Pub.L. 97-35 (1981)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982, Pub.L. 97-253 (1982)
* Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), Pub.L. 97-248 (1982)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983, Pub.L. 98-270 (1984)
* Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (DEFRA), Pub.L. 98-369 (1984)
* Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA), Pub.L. 99-272 (1986)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, Pub.L. 99-509 (1986)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987, Pub.L. 100-203 (1987)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-239 (1989)
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, Pub.L. 101-508 (1990).
* Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, Pub.L. 103-66 (1990).
* Balanced Budget Act of 1995, H.R. 2491 (vetoed December 6, 1995)
* Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, Pub.L. 104-193 (1996)
* Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-33 (1997)
* Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-34 (1997)
* Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999, H.R. 2488 (vetoed September 23, 1999)
* Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000, H.R. 4810 (vetoed August 5, 2000)
* Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), Pub.L. 107-16 (2001)
* Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, Pub.L. 108-27 (2003)
* Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-171 (2006)
* Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (TIPRA), Pub.L. 109-222 (2006)
* College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, Pub.L. 110-84 (2007)
And let’s look at the Byrd rule (named after the famous Democrat).
Reconciliation generally involves legislation that changes the budget deficit (or conceivably, the surplus). The “Byrd Rule” (2 U.S.C. § 644, named after Democratic Senator Robert Byrd) was adopted in 1985 and amended in 1990 to outline which provisions reconciliation can and cannot be used for. The Byrd Rule defines a provision to be “extraneous” (and therefore ineligible for reconciliation) in six cases:
1. if it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues;
2. if it produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions;
3. if it is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure;
4. if it produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision;
5. if it would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those covered by the reconciliation measure, though the provisions in question may receive an exception if they in total in a Title of the measure net to a reduction in the deficit; and
6. if it recommends changes in Social Security.
Any senator may raise a procedural objection to a provision believed to be extraneous, which will then be ruled on by the Presiding Officer, customarily on the advice of the Senate Parliamentarian. A vote of 60 senators is required to overturn the ruling. The Presiding Officer need not necessarily follow the advice of the Parliamentarian, and the Parliamentarian can be replaced by the Senate Majority Leader.
Reconciliation is *not* the vehicle that should be used to pass the health-care bill. Give it a shot if you want, but the results might not be what you want and the precedent set will be a dangerous one. Democrats will someday not be the majority, and will likely rue the day they dismantled the process that allows the minority part to still have some say in how the country is run. Mob rule benefits no one.
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:47 am
ty – the party of “no” is just so … rude … I mean, who raised these people? shouldn’t it be the party of “no, thank you”?
Eva
February 26th, 2010
10:47 am
I wonder what would have if these politicians, actually had to pay for their health care. I’m talking out of pocket cost. I was watching undercover boss a few weeks ago. Let one of our politician try going to applying for ACHHS or some other type of common health plan and see what happens to them. I believe, we-all americans, need a health plan that we can all work with. Our insurance premiums and out of pocket costs are going up as well as our medications. Even if you are on ACHHS or on some type of common health insurance. Has anyone seen how these people get treated? They get put at the end of the waiting list.
Scooter
February 26th, 2010
10:48 am
Ooooh, Scooter, you’re gonna get into so much trouble with your 10:38!
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:48 am
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
10:40 am
I’m a conservative who holds the following beliefs about a few relevant issues. If you will, please let me know yours.
(1) I was against the Iraq War from the get go. If it was “blood for oil” as some fanatics screamed, just how much oil did we get?
(2) I was for the Afghan War, and so is Obama.
(3) Against the healthcare plan that was passed by the Senate as well as the one passed in the House. Bad mojo. Too many “bought” votes.
(4) I’m for cutting ALL programs to some extent to get us to a balanced budget.
(5) I’m against deficit spending as a way of life. There may truly be limited times when it is applicable, but not as an annual exercise.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
10:48 am
Jay, you may be right, but the bill includes text intended to make it unrepealable by creating rules-of-order for the Senate and House:
“It shall not be in order in the Senate or the House of Representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection.”
HR3590 Section 1304 subsection (d)
‘‘(d) CONGRESSIONAL CONSIDERATION.—
‘‘(1) INTRODUCTION.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—On the day on which
a proposal is submitted by the President to the
…[snip 3 pages of text]…
‘‘(B) LIMITATION ON CHANGES TO THE
BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS IN OTHER LEGISLA
TION.—It shall not be in order in the Senate or
the House of Representatives to consider any
bill, resolution, amendment, or conference re
port (other than pursuant to this section) that
would repeal or otherwise change the rec
ommendations of the Board if that change
would fail to satisfy the requirements of sub
paragraphs (A)(i) and (C) of subsection (c)(2).
‘‘(C) LIMITATION ON CHANGES TO THIS
SUBSECTION.—It shall not be in order in the
Senate or the House of Representatives to con
sider any bill, resolution, amendment, or con
ference report that would repeal or otherwise
change this subsection.
Disgusted
February 26th, 2010
10:48 am
As soon as members of Congress are sworn in, they may participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP).
The same is true of all federal employees, Southern Atl. Members of Congress get no special insurance breaks. They pay an employee’s share of the premiums and the federal government picks up the rest, just as a corporate employee pays a share and the corporation picks up the rest. The only difference is that the federal government negotiates with multiple insurers to offer a choice of plans to federal employees, while a corporation typically offers only one plan.
So what’s your point? Or do you even have one?
Doggone/GA
February 26th, 2010
10:49 am
“Congress also has used reconciliation in the past to establish entirely new health coverage programs or to substantially expand existing ones.
Children’s Health Insurance Program. Reconciliation legislation enacted in 1997 created the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which now provides subsidized coverage to 7 million children.
Medicare Advantage. The 1997 reconciliation law also established the Medicare+Choice program, now termed Medicare Advantage. The Medicare Advantage program currently serves 10.4 million Medicare beneficiaries.
Continuation of Employer-Sponsored Coverage. The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA) of 1985 established new rules under which workers leaving employment with a firm that offers health insurance can remain enrolled in the employer’s health plan for a specified period of time if the worker pays the premiums. COBRA also makes continuation of coverage available to spouses and children of workers upon the death of the worker, loss of dependent status, or other specified circumstances.”
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3059
Whacks Eloquent
February 26th, 2010
10:49 am
Percy, thanks for the details!
Don’t y’all just love provision number 6? Not that I disagree, but so funny that SS gets its own special recognition.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
10:50 am
Lord Help Us @10:32 am re: Bush tax cuts broke the bank.
The revenues after the Bush tax cuts increased sharply. Comparing year-over-year, we had revenue growth of 8.2% (’04), 14.6% (’05), 11.7% (’06), 6.7% (’07) before dipping by 1.7% in ‘08. Revenues exceeded $2T every year after the Bush tax cuts except for ‘04 ($1.88T) and in ‘06 & ‘07 exceeded $2.5T.
But it wasn’t enough, as Congress continued deficit spending. Year-over-year spending increases were 6.2%, 7.8%, 7.4% and 2.8% from ‘04-’07. Then the Democrats took over Congress and things really caught fire, as they spent 9.3% more in ‘08 and a whopping 34% more in ‘09.
With the increased revenue (even larger than increased spending over ‘03-’07), the amount added to the debt each year was steadily decreasing, especially when viewed as a percentage of GDP: 5.5% in ‘03, then 5.3%, 4.3%, 4.1%, and finally 3.4% in ‘07 (which is less than the 3.9% in ‘02). That’s over now, with more than $1T added by Democratic Congress ‘08 and ‘09 and more than $1.5T in the new budget.
Jay
February 26th, 2010
10:52 am
M Percy, reconciliation would not be used to pass the health reform bill. The House would pass the Senate’s version, and Obama would sign it. So the bill’s passage would not involve reconciliation.
However, reconciliation would then be used to alter some financial aspects of the bill.
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:52 am
“Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You; Ask What You Can Do For Your Country.” JFK
I wonder if he would say this about govt healthcare as well?
SOUTHERN ATL
February 26th, 2010
10:53 am
Disgusted@10:40 a.m. What’s my point??? Have you ever been turned down for coverage or have you ever been told that you had a pre-existing condition and coverage will be denied?
ty webb
February 26th, 2010
10:54 am
UsinUK,
you’re right. let’s act like we got atleast a little hometraining.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:55 am
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:52 am
“Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You; Ask What You Can Do For Your Country.” JFK
Pay more taxes!!!
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
10:55 am
Oh, I went over the “that’s too long for us to be bothered looking at” word-count limit again above in my 10:45. Sorry.
Dave R.
February 26th, 2010
10:56 am
Jay, I don’t think you’re going to get the Senate bill through the House. The numbers don’t add up.
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:57 am
Normal
February 26th, 2010
10:55 am
I’m all for modest tax increases if we also cut spending to balance the budget.
Just what percent increase in taxes do you suggest?
Jay
February 26th, 2010
10:58 am
That may be true, Dave. I have no idea what the count might be.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
10:58 am
Jay, right now it seems that the House doesn’t have to votes to pass the Senate bill, and what I’m reading about elsewhere is that a reconciled bill (one that can pass the House) will be passed through the Senate with reconciliation.
Bill
February 26th, 2010
10:58 am
We don’t want government to have anything to do with healthcare. Why don’t you losers try and wise up and make more money to pay for it yourselves?
Eddie
February 26th, 2010
10:58 am
It ain’t over till it’s over.
House and senate still have to agree on the final bill. They are not there yet.
There’s a better way to handle health care reform.
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
11:00 am
not jimmeh –
1) with you on that one
2) with you on that one, too
3) I thought the passage of the senate version was uuuuuuuuuuu-GLEE. however, it’s not the first time that’s happened (for either party) and won’t be the last
4) I totally agree (not necessarily an equal cut across the board, but the garden definitely needs a good cull and burn!)
5) I agree with you, there, too – I think that passing tax cuts when you’re going into a war (and then hiding those expenses off the books) was an asinine decision.
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
11:00 am
Have Mercy Miss Percy…
Do you attribute any of the transition from $250 Surplus to $1.4 Trillion deficit during the Bush Administration to Bush or to his tax cuts???
USinUK
February 26th, 2010
11:01 am
ty – “you’re right. let’s act like we got atleast a little hometraining”
Normal
February 26th, 2010
11:02 am
NIF, My first bike was a ‘69 Triumph Bonneville 650. Got her when I got got of the Navy the first time. Had her semi chopped (no hard tail) and painted a light lime over a gold metalflake. The guy who did the paint job put a perfect pot leaf on each side of the tank and covered them in a clear acrylic. It was a great bike. I went “Lookin’
for America” on it.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
11:02 am
Plus, Jay, if the House passes the Senate bill, then the bill is passed, is it not? Then what point would there be for using reconciliation? To “fix” fiscal parts of it? That seems an odd position to be standing in, threatening to use reconciliation to tweak a bill that hasn’t, and may not, be passed? No, the threat we’re hearing is to use reconciliation to pass the combined H.C. bill.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
11:03 am
Mick
**America is still a great country, the germany comparision is a non starter. **
Yes it is, but when we stop learning from history we are in deep trouble. It isn’t just Germany that failed because of promises of robbing the rich to give the poor everything they ever wanted. Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, some of the worst people that ever lived understood the power of those kinds of promises. And there are mass graves all over the world as a result.
It does concern me that so many are so adverse to looking at past mistakes made by other peoples. Why is that, Mick? Why is the media and the vast majority of progressives so adverse to comparing the acts of our government to past acts? If you would start to ask yourself why that honest and time tried technique is so abhorrent, I can’t see how you can get any sort of truthful and positive answer.
Obama did choose to tackle a tough issue, but every solution he has offered, just happen to parallel many gigantic mistakes that other countries have made. If you simply take a second and try to think of a single thing that this Congress has done that has not given incredible power to the government, that alone should tell you that they are not looking out for us, but instead looking out for them.
I think it is a travesty that the first “African American” president is a half white, grandson of millionaires, raised in Oahu and attended one of the most prestigious private schools in the world. Typical Democrat offering. He’s not too dark, you know. He’s almost white enough to be a democrat.
I heard his pastor, Rev. Wright speak at Morehouse the summer before anyone knew who he was. Black people were walking out of the speech because it was so racist. But Obama exposed his kids to that madman every Sunday, their entire life. And what he was spewing WAS the mantra of that church. But Obama lied and said that he didn’t know about this side if Wright, even though his first book was titled after a sermon from that bigot.
Taking on a big job offers him no awards unless he can solve the problem. Apparently, his ideas are so bad, that even his own party can’t swallow them.
We need solutions, but so far, we are seeing yet more government control. That offers no solutions, more bureaucracy and the dims prove every day that they cannot be trusted with even the power they have.
Normal
February 26th, 2010
11:03 am
Jimmy Carter
February 26th, 2010
10:57 am
Honestly, I don’t know other than each to his own ability. Bottom line is that we are all going to have to chip in or sink.
Jay
February 26th, 2010
11:04 am
The House may very well not be willing to pass the Senate bill. They’re counting votes like crazy right now, I’m sure.
But they can’t pass the entire bill through the Senate with reconciliation. Senate rules don’t allow it. They can only adjust its financial aspects.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
11:04 am
“Have you ever been turned down for coverage or have you ever been told that you had a pre-existing condition and coverage will be denied?”
Have you ever tried to buy homeowners insurance after your house burned down or car insurance after you wrecked the car?
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
11:05 am
Sorry Normal and Nuttin…the only good motorcycles have knobby tires.
Go to the GA Dome Saturday night and you will see!
I will be on the track with the TLD crew!!!
Normal
February 26th, 2010
11:05 am
Thanks Jay for putting my 1027 up. I take back what I was thinking…
SOUTHERN ATL
February 26th, 2010
11:06 am
….but of course a home as well as a car will eventually be replaced as long as there is cash on hand…what about a life??
Well
February 26th, 2010
11:06 am
AIG, which is nearly 80 percent-owned by the government, reported an adjusted loss of $7.2 billion, or $53.23 per share, compared with an adjusted loss of $38.5 billion, or $287.69 per share, a year earlier.
Analysts had been expecting a loss of $3.94 per share. It was not immediately clear whether the results were comparable with the estimates, according to Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S.
Well? I think not. More like a bottomless pit. And those analysts! Wow. I’d hate to take their recommendations for a good stock pick.
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
11:06 am
“But they can’t pass the entire bill through the Senate with reconciliation. Senate rules don’t allow it. They can only adjust its financial aspects.”
That’s kind of my point, but your picture doesn’t jibe with the notion of getting the bill passed somehow, and “if we have to use reconciliation to ram it through, so be it” [not a real quote, but the gist of what I'm reading and hearing].
Dave R.
February 26th, 2010
11:07 am
Realistically, you’ve already got four less votes than you had before with 3 Democrats no longer in the House and the GOP member from Louisiana already saying he won’t vote for it.
You have provisions in the Senate bill that just won’t fly like the Cornhusker Kickback, the Louisiana purchase and the tax on union “Cadillac” health plans. I don’t think any of those can be addressed in reconciliation, but maybe.
You also have Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts all staring them in the face.
I just don’t see the numbers game playing out on this route.
DAVID: AJC Truth Detector
February 26th, 2010
11:08 am
JAY……..SURE AS HELL CAN’t DEPEND ON THE Atlanta-Obama-Journal to clear things up….THERE IS No one at the AJC with the patience to read the 2,500 page monstrosity….
Normal
February 26th, 2010
11:08 am
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
11:05 am
I tried knobbies out in the woods…those damn trees move too fast for me. I’ll take a highway bike anytime.
Well
February 26th, 2010
11:09 am
what about a life??
You just grow a whole new one or select pieceparts, as needed.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
11:09 am
Normal
Rode a Triumph one time. Probably about the same year. I loved that bike even though I believe just dragging your feet would be better brakes.
My first was a Zundapp KS 601. Sounded like a Harley, and was one of the worst designed bikes I ever rode. I paid $100 for it and I got ripped off, but I would love to have it now, just because it was so weird. My friend drove it through a basement wall at my parent’s house. So much for the Zoom Flop as we called it.
md
February 26th, 2010
11:10 am
“And what I worry about would be you essentially have still two chambers — the House and the Senate — but you have simply majoritarian absolute power on either side, and that’s just not what the founders intended,” Senator Barack Obama 2005
No More Progressives!
February 26th, 2010
11:10 am
Citizen of the World
February 26th, 2010
9:50 am
Won’t it be nice to know that even if you lose your job you can still get insurance despite a pre-existing condition?
All it would take (in Georgia) is for his Emminence Lord Oxendine to mandate insurance carriers cover pre-existing conditions in order to write policies in GA.
No Federal involvement AT ALL.
And it won’t cost a trillion dollars of other peoples money.
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
11:10 am
Normal, cars with people on cell phones move faster and more erratically than trees…
M Percy
February 26th, 2010
11:13 am
“Do you attribute any of the transition from $250 Surplus to $1.4 Trillion deficit during the Bush Administration to Bush or to his tax cuts???”
Let me put it this way. The cuts, by themselves, would not have increased deficits. This is clear because revenues *increased* markedly after the cuts were passed. Had revenues decreased, that’d've been a different story.
The problem was simply that spending increased faster than the revenue growth. That does fall on the Congress and President. Spend less than before, or spend the same as before, or even if you spend more than before but less than the extra revenue being brought in and the “surplus” continues.
In other words, “It’s the spending, stupid.” Not that I’m calling you stupid, just paraphrasing that Clinton-era trope.
Jay
February 26th, 2010
11:14 am
My ride was a Kawasaki 750. The day I sold it, I walked away relieved I hadn’t killed myself on it.
But I miss it to this day.
Lord Help Us
February 26th, 2010
11:16 am
Have Mercy Miss Percy…
‘Let me put it this way. The cuts, by themselves, would not have increased deficits’
No REAL economist agrees with that statement. If you can point to an unbiased source, I will retract and apologize.
DAVID: AJC Truth Detector
February 26th, 2010
11:17 am
JAY…………READ…..MEDICARE & YOU———-Everyone in Georgia is covered for Health Care…..WE DO NOT NEED A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE overhaul…..CENTER FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES……Covers 100% of Georgia.
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
February 26th, 2010
11:20 am
Jay
Kaws are great bikes. I almost bought a 900 that had been turbo’d. The lag was so bad that once you hit the throttle, it was about 3 seconds before the turbo kicked in and at that point, just hang on. I always wanted a 500, but like you, just got tired of almost getting killed.
mm
February 26th, 2010
11:20 am
Pathetic how the wingnuts think they came out on top yesterday. Typical. They never can admit wen they get their @sses kicked.
Pass the current bill, add the House amendments, and use reconciliation to change it.
If the Dems pass this bill, you will see a total election disaster in November for the GOP. If they don’t pass it, the Dems will see an election disaster.
Jay
February 26th, 2010
11:21 am
“No More…”, it ain’t that easy.
If we did what you suggest, lots of people would cancel their insurance, then buy it only after they were diagnosed with something and needed somebody to pay their bills.
The cost of insurance would soar, because most of those buying it would be those with expensive pre-existing conditions. The system would collapse, which is why nobody has taken the seemingly simple solution you offer.
Mick
February 26th, 2010
11:22 am
NIF
**Why is the media and the vast majority of progressives so adverse to comparing the acts of our government to past acts?**
You raise some valid points. Obama is not rev. wright. I have friends that are on crack, bigots, you name it – thats not me and just because they are society’s losers don’t attach that to me. They are still my friends even though we live in different worlds. This country for better or for worse has a unique identity. Bush couldn’t take it, obama can’t take it – they are temporary custodians of what we are. We the people are measured by what type of leadership we elect. Congress has sold the people out but there are some good people there trying, unfortunately they are the minority. Repubs held the majority from 94 to 06, they blew it, so why should I trust them again? Dems have been in power three years. I want healthcare reform. I’m for single payer or medicare for all. Health care should not be for profit – period. Disagree with me? No problem, but if it turns out that is what the majority wants deal with it and leave the hitler, pol-pot, stalin and every dissenters favorite mao bs out because its not even remotely connected.
Whacks Eloquent
February 26th, 2010
11:23 am
Kawasaki?
http://www.hi-techredneck.com/cow-a-socky.html
Sorry, had to…
mm
February 26th, 2010
11:24 am
“This is clear because revenues *increased* markedly after the cuts were passed.”
Geez. Are there actually still morons out there believing this crap?
Jay
February 26th, 2010
11:24 am
I had mine when I lived in Vegas, Swamper. It was great going out on those straight desert highways in 110-degree heat and just opening that baby up….
Like I said, I walked away relieved I hadn’t died. But boy oh boy.
jefferson
February 26th, 2010
11:25 am
Let’s Vote — “NO”
Let’s Vote — “NO”
Let’s Vote — “NO”
Let’s Vote — “NO”
Let’s Vote — “NO”
Let’s Vote — “NO”
After a while, we begin to see a pattern.
Rightwing Troll
February 26th, 2010
11:25 am
“Whacks, where were you when the GOP used reconciliation to pass legislation 16 of the 22 times it has been used since 1980?”
The same place they were from 2000 to 2008, in LaLa land.
pat
February 26th, 2010
11:25 am
Here’s the facts. Obama put on a show for nothing yesterday whan he concluded that he is planning to ram this through no matter what and he could give a crap about actually being bipartisan. His view of bipartisan is you have to agree with him and then your being bipartisan. What a first class jerk.
What they should do is take a list of the things they all agree on and make it a bill and vote on it. Then hammer out the rest.
They want to vote on it via simple majority. Well the simple majority of the people do not want these bills, every poll shows this.
They may get this bill passed, but it will be the last thing they do before we the people over haul the congress.
mm
February 26th, 2010
11:25 am
It’s like your bank account. If you decrease the money you deposit in your bank account, it will not increase your balance.