Blaming government for fiscal crisis is scapegoating
I do not blame President Bush or his party for the Great Recession that occurred on his watch. Yes, there were things he should have done that might have prevented the situation from getting as bad as it did, and there were things he did do that made the situation somewhat worse than it needed to be. When crunch time came in the latter half of 2008, when things really started to fall apart in dramatic fashion, he and his Cabinet responded competently if not perfectly, even if they had to repeatedly strongarm fellow Republicans in Congress to do the smart and necessary thing.
But ladies and gentlemen, we were headed for a fall regardless of what government did, and the fault was our own, as a people and as a culture. We as Americans started believing our own press releases, as the saying goes, and we stopped doing the things that got us where we were. I blame Bush for a lot of things — I still believe he will go down as one of the worst presidents in our history — but I cannot honestly blame him for that.
What inspires that bit of a rant? Take a look at this graph, borrowed from Barry Ritholz’ Big Picture blog.
from http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/
Ritholz uses the chart to suggest that former Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan got a little too free and easy with the credit, allowing the real-estate bubble and credit crisis to develop. There’s some truth to that — when the financial history of this mess is written, it will not be kind to “The Maestro.”
But really, look at that chart and ask yourself whether that could be sustained. And again, while Greenspan and the Fed could have moderated some of that spending spree, this was bigger than one man or one agency. (Also note how large that gap between consumer spending and cash income remains even now.)
It’s also interesting to compare the above chart to a similar illustration below charting the rise of our national debt over the same time frame. Notice any similarities?
I’d suggest that the two phenomenon — one consumer spending, one federal debt — share a common source, a belief that as Americans the rules of financial gravity didn’t apply to us. Yeah, that’s what we were being told by many of our leaders, but we as a people chose to believe them because it sure sounded good, didn’t it?
I’d further argue that anybody who thinks we’re going back to our recent heydays is deluding himself, because as these charts demonstrate, those heydays were as false as Bernie Madoff’s financial statements.
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399 comments Add your comment
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:30 am
NiF –
you have never been to a good, Italian wedding my friend! wine … food … wine … dancing … more food … more wine … and that’s before the sit-down dinner!
not to mention, if you spend upwards of a $1K or more on your wedding dress, you want people to SEE the danged thing!
Jenifer
February 24th, 2010
11:30 am
Wall Street Shifting Political Contributions To Republicans
After a brief dalliance with Democrats, they’re returning to Old Faithful.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/23/AR2010022305537.html
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 24th, 2010
11:31 am
Well, I use to be a Baptist but they won’t drink when another Baptist can see them. So I switched to the Holiness Church and can drink like a fish.
Sam
February 24th, 2010
11:31 am
Drain,
and therein lies the difference, you want to get it over with and get home. i want a party is drunk girls dressed to the nines that lasts all night long…to each their own…i tell you what, next baptist wedding i’m invited to, you go in my place and vice versa… then we’ll compare notes..
N-GA
February 24th, 2010
11:32 am
Drain the Swamp…my post was about John’s “simple” solution. You’re just not smart enough to read multiple posts and discern the thread of the discussion.
BTW…you’re not very good at sarcasm, either.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:32 am
Headline: “Poll: Younger voters support for Democrats drops.”
Ah, the winds are shifting ……………..
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:32 am
“So we should forego something that brings more money into the treasury just so that evil, rich Donald Trump won’t make more money?”
After reading Jay’s Wealth Envy column yesterday, RW, that’s the only conclusion that I can draw. From Jay’s own graphs, the wealthy have assumed a greater and greater share of the total tax burden over the past ten years, with those at the bottom paying virtually nothing. I asked Jay what changes could be made to the tax code to make the situation more “fair”, but received no response. Jay tried to use some “fuzzy math” to conclude “So, the takeaway so far is that the federal government takes significantly less of each dollar now than it did in 1979, a statement that is true across income levels.” Crunching the numbers provided reveals that the top 1/5 of wage earners saw a drop from 37% of their income taken to 31.2%, which represents a reduction of 16%. For the bottom 1/5 of wage earners, the percentage of their income taken through taxes fell from 8% to 4.3%, which represents a reduction of 46%. In my view, a 16% reduction is not equivalent to a 46% reduction.
Jay concludes his article by stating “In other words, upper-income households haven’t been “penalized” for their success by higher tax rates, as some rhetoric claims; they’re paying more taxes because they’re reaping a much greater share of the income. The economy changed, and they benefited.” On the surface, a benign statement until you read the “wealth envy” comments from the rest of the day. There seems to be an assumption on the part of liberals that our economy is a “zero-sum” game–i.e. there is a fixed amount of money to be divvied up among everyone, so that if one person succeeds, it causes someone else to fail. If that were the case, I’d be mad at the wealthy also. But in reality, we don’t have a “zero-sum” economy–my success or lack of as an individual has nothing to do with what others are earning.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:34 am
Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it) :
Well, you know what they say about the “Holiness”. They’ll get to heaven too if they don’t run by it.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:36 am
Brunooooooooooooooo … hey my friend!!
Jenifer
February 24th, 2010
11:37 am
Daniel Stout, the guy who had an affair with his mother-in-law and won Glenn Richardson’s old seat in Paulding County, went to a Christian school. I don’t know which denomination.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
February 24th, 2010
11:38 am
Voter unhappiness with Congress has reached the highest level ever recorded by Rasmussen Reports as 71% now say the legislature is doing a poor job.
Only 10% of voters say Congress is doing a good or excellent job.
Buh bye dummycrats.
Back to the basement stooge kommittee hearings with ya.
Have fun!
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:39 am
USinUK:
Question ………. are you still a U.S. citizen or have you gone native. Just curious.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:40 am
Jenifer:
Judas was one of the twelve. What’s your point?
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:41 am
And one last time for the envious liberals on board today: 80% of millionaires earned the money themselves. Your assumptions that it all came from Daddy are wrong.
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:41 am
Hey, USinUK–I’m mad at you today^^^^^^
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:42 am
poooooooooor whiner … such bad reading skills, he can’t get past the headline …
“Three out of four voters (75%) report being at least somewhat angry at the policies of the federal government. Part of the frustration is likely due to the belief of 60% of voters that neither Republican political leaders nor Democratic political leaders have a good understanding of what is needed today.
Still, voters believe Democrats are more likely than Republicans to have a plan for the future. ”
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance
Sam
February 24th, 2010
11:43 am
i prefer irish catholic weddings in ireland….
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:43 am
Bruno – no!! no mad!!! why for???
Disgusted
February 24th, 2010
11:44 am
Daniel Stout, the guy who had an affair with his mother-in-law and won Glenn Richardson’s old seat in Paulding County, went to a Christian school. I don’t know which denomination.
Well, unlike his predecessor, at least he’s keeping it in the family.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:44 am
Sam – what’s the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake???
one less guest.
thankyew … thankyewverymuch …
N-GA
February 24th, 2010
11:44 am
Don’t blame the government? We ARE the government “of the people, by the people, for the people”.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:44 am
USinUK:
Having a “plan” means very little if it’s not a good one. Lee had a “plan” at Gettysburg and Custer had a “plan” at the Little Big Horn.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:44 am
Scout – still a US citizen, filing my US tax forms and voting in US elections
(married a Brit)
Sam
February 24th, 2010
11:45 am
he reports, we ignore
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:46 am
N-GA:
I hear you but must disagree. The “people” and the “government” are two different entitites. That’s why the Bill of Rights refers to the “people”.
We the People “allow” government.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:46 am
Scout – 11:44 – ??? I think I missed something …
Sam
February 24th, 2010
11:46 am
USinUK, did you make him fix his teeth before you married him?
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:46 am
Point blank, USinUK–Do you believe that economies are “zero-sum”, that one person’s success comes at the expense of someone else failing? That seems to be the reasoning behind all the “wealth envy” comments I read from yesterday’s blog. You in particular have stated that you live in a very expensive house and have a solid retirement portfolio. If so, why are you concerned about those who earn more than you do?
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:47 am
USinUK:
Good for you. What are his politcal leanings as far as their system goes?
RealityKing
February 24th, 2010
11:47 am
Jays puffery makes perfect sence..
Blame the Republicans for 4.9 Trillion in debt over 8 years
Blame everyone but Obama for the 2.9 Trillion in debt since last Jan.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:48 am
Sam – I didn’t marry Austin Powers
Bruno – of course I don’t – nor did I say anything of the kind yesterday.
Jenifer
February 24th, 2010
11:49 am
“Jenifer:
Judas was one of the twelve. What’s your point?”
Well, I certainly wouldn’t rank him with Judas. Going a little far there, aren’t ya? Geez…
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:49 am
USinUK:
I’m simply stating that if more people think Dems. have more “plans” than Repubs. so what? Plans are good and bad. I believe the great majority of the Dems. “plans” are disasterous for our economy and the liberty of this Republic.
P.S. to Sam: that wasn’t nice.
Outhouse GoKart
February 24th, 2010
11:49 am
Best pay off those credit cards, kiddies.
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:49 am
“Sam – what’s the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake???”
Still love the Irish Funerary Prayer: “May you enjoy 5 minutes in heaven before the Devil finds out you are dead”.
Jenifer
February 24th, 2010
11:50 am
“Well, unlike his predecessor, at least he’s keeping it in the family.”
Good one!
Outhouse GoKart
February 24th, 2010
11:51 am
Heres is a plan. Stop spending so much of your $$$. This instant gratification society has gotten themselves in a deep deep hole. Recovery time is long ways off and I will be here to purchase your foreclosed home, for pennies on the dollar mind you, then relax into semi-retirement!!
YEA BABY!!
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
11:51 am
““May you enjoy 5 minutes in heaven before the Devil finds out you are dead”.”
that’s a little different from the way I learned it: “May you BE 5 minutes in heaven, before the Devil finds out you are dead”
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:52 am
Jenifer:
My point was going to a “Christian” school, or being a member of a “Christian” church, or being a member of the original twlelve disciples (Judas) does NOT make one a Christian.
It’s what’s in the heart that counts …………….
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:52 am
“Bruno – of course I don’t – nor did I say anything of the kind yesterday.”
Here’s from your 9:53:
“so their income is simply “given” to them?”
since much is from investment income, one could make that argument …
RealityKing
February 24th, 2010
11:52 am
Can’t blame me. I say no to more government.., don’t need a second mama.
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
11:53 am
“My point was going to a …”, etc
Ummm, yes Scout…WE already know that. You’re “preaching to the choir here.
Rightwing Troll
February 24th, 2010
11:53 am
well, you supported one, the other, or none.
In each case you helped the final outcome and the mess that followed. You are as culpable as anybody in this.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
February 24th, 2010
11:54 am
Dear Troll @ 10:31, had you read my earlier note you would understand that the destruction wreaked by Ms. Pelosi had nothing to do with budgets and was not subject to veto.
Dear N-GA @ 10:30, much of your post has nothing to do with CRA, but you cite one incontrovertible truth: Different bankers have have different tolerances for risk. Only our leftist friends refuse to accept that truth, attempting to force all bankers into the same profiles, without regard to the differences in the local economies.
Dear Birch @ 11:09, the government did not “have” to tell any banker anything after it went after Bank of America on CRA grounds during the Clinton administration. Even if bankers are not smart enough to always exercise good credit judgment, they understand good regulatory relations. And they were grateful for the FNMA/FHLMC escape valve, allowing them to make bad loans and then sell them off.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:55 am
Scout – 11:47 – he’s apolitical but leans Tory (which, frankly, we both do – I can’t stand Labor, Gordon Brown or anyone else in his cabinet) … I’d go for the LibDems but that’s like voting for the “Standing-At-The-Back-Dressed-Stupidly-And-Looking-Stupid” Party (for any Black Adder fans on the blog)
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:55 am
Doggone/GA:
Disagree ………… not everyone is in “the choir”. That’s the problem.
Outhouse GoKart
February 24th, 2010
11:55 am
Judas is most likely in Heaven.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:56 am
USinUK:
I hear you but Tory “sounds” so bad. We killed so many of them in our Revolution and the rest fled to Canada.
Rightwing Troll
February 24th, 2010
11:57 am
“I say skip the wedding and use the money on starting a life together with less debt.”
I say skip marriage altogether, it’s a sham. Shack up and make babies, then when it falls apart (as it does 75% of the time) there is no messy divorce to ruin the rest of your life, and as a male you have exactly the same parental rights to your child as you do if you marry… little to none.
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
11:57 am
“not everyone is in “the choir”. ”
I did say “here.” I have yet to see anyone defend that scumbag, so it’s a pretty safe bet that everyone HERE knows a “Christian in name only” when they see one.
Mick
February 24th, 2010
11:58 am
I guess in this economy he who dies with the most debt – wins…
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
11:58 am
P.S.–I’m picking on you in particular this Am re: the wealth envy comments from yesterday, USinUK, since you are the only liberal on board from whom I can expect a reasonable response. So actually, my insult is a compliment.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
11:59 am
Bruno – 11:52 – that doesn’t mean that I begrudge anyone anything. The question was about “to whom much is given, much shall be expected” – I can’t remember who asked, but they said “given?” and I said that one can make the argument that invested income is closer to being “given” than income from a job.
that doesn’t mean I begrudge anything – but I think that, if you ask anyone to compare someone who makes $20K/yr of investment income vs. a nurse earning $20K/yr working in an ER, they’d probably say the same.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
11:59 am
Outhouse GoKart:
I’m sorry but “He” disagrees with you …………….
John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
md
February 24th, 2010
12:00 pm
Bruno,
I’ve always had trouble with the concept of a “rich” dem. Their ideology espouses sharing, yet they do not.
One can lead a comfortable life on much less than many of them have, yet they choose not to.
Hollywood is a great example – Mansion after mansion when the homeless are on the street.
I’m guessing their ideaology is nothing more than justification for their wealth and lack of sharing.
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2010
12:00 pm
Scout, If you haven’t figured it out yet, Jenifer is one of the “tolerant liberals” who HATES Christians. She can post whatever she wants in response to this, but one only needs to go back and read her posts over the past weeks here to see the evidence.
And there isn’t much point debating with her either. She’s about the dimmest bulb this blog has ever seen.
HDB
February 24th, 2010
12:00 pm
@ Bruno: “Do you believe that economies are “zero-sum”, that one person’s success comes at the expense of someone else failing? ”
Many people DO believe that this is the case…..and in current situations, it’s viewed as the rich continue to get rich AT THE EXPENSE of the poor and middle class. Note our current economy; haven’t you noticed that for every EXPANSION of wealth of the wealthy, it comes at a REDUCTION of wealth in the other economic classes!! If the costs of health care begin to decline, the costs to business would decline….and MAYBE….they can afford to HIRE more people!!! If the economy begins to expand and more jobs become available…..wage INCREASES rather than wage STAGNATION….then maybe that view may change….but it’s been that way since medival England and the robber barons…..through American slavery……up until now!!
Scout
February 24th, 2010
12:01 pm
Doggone/GA :
I hear you. I also think there will be some surprises both ways.
Kamchak
February 24th, 2010
12:01 pm
And they were grateful for the FNMA/FHLMC escape valve, allowing them to make bad loans and then sell them off.
Fannie–SQUIRREL!
Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble.
During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
12:03 pm
Scout – “We killed so many of them in our Revolution and the rest fled to Canada.”
gah – most of the English blood that was spilled on American soil wouldn’t have qualified to vote, anyway – if you rented land, you couldn’t vote until the 1830s (and, even then, only some of them) – all non-land-owners (men) could vote in the 1860s.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:04 pm
“well, you supported one, the other, or none. ”
Sure there were only three choices in previous elections?
May want to look again.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:05 pm
“Shack up and make babies, then when it falls apart (as it does 75% of the time)”
That seems to be generational – wonder why?
Sam
February 24th, 2010
12:05 pm
md, rich dems pay the same taxes as rich repubs…..they just whine less about it.
N-GA
February 24th, 2010
12:05 pm
Ragnar,
Your 11:54 said “… much of your post has nothing to do with CRA.”. True, just like CRA had nothing to do with the economic crisis and the housing market meltdown.
Thank you for helping me make my point.
Outhouse GoKart
February 24th, 2010
12:06 pm
HDB
February 24th, 2010
12:00 pm
No it hasnt.
dave
February 24th, 2010
12:06 pm
Amen, after all we were entilted to a $300,000 home, $50,000 fully loaded 4-wheel dually pickup, $30,000 200 HP bass boat, 60″ flat screen TV and of course the government had to keep the party going for us. Picture what we would have been screaming it they did not. Government do something!!!
Scout
February 24th, 2010
12:06 pm
RB from Gwinnett :
I hear you but I usually do it anyway for two reasons:
1) There is always hope.
2) If it happens this way at judgement day, and they look me in the eyes, I want to be able to say ……… “I tried to tell you”.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
12:06 pm
Scout – 11:49 – ah – I see what you’re saying. but, in this case, I think they are referring to plans vs. “NO, DAMMIT!!!”
OGK – “Best pay off those credit cards, kiddies.” good advice, no matter what’s going on in the economy.
Sam
February 24th, 2010
12:07 pm
i’m with you on that one Troll….will you please explain to my wife?
N-GA
February 24th, 2010
12:07 pm
Sam (your 12:05) – Amen!
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
12:08 pm
Here’s from Jay, which you raucously applauded:
“Those aren’t the people I know and see, the people out there working 50 or 60 hour weeks doing jobs most of the snooty crowd would not do and could not do. No, they don’t get paid well for it, but yes, they work very hard and deserve better than the disdain that is dripped upon them by their “betters.”
My objection to this comment is that I’m one of the people who started at the bottom. I worked every crap job there is from age 11. I financed my own college education with no family assistance, having to work 40 hours per week while attending school full-time. After graduation, I worked 6-7 days a week for 20+ years without one day off. I can pretty much guarantee that I’ve logged in more hours working than anyone else on board here.
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2010
12:11 pm
Hey Jay, how come over the past few years when your minions have been bashing Bush endlessly for this financial crisis you haven’t swooped in with that seagull style of yours to correct them like you do everybody else on here who disagrees with you?
Thats called “intellectual honesty” Jay. If you and your cohorts there at the AJC displayed that once in a while, you might not be going out of business at double the national average.
Scout
February 24th, 2010
12:11 pm
USinUK:
Sometimes the best answer/plan “is” NO!
Also, keep in mind a democracy is the only form of government I know of that is automatically set up to “allow” for its own destruction. That’s why we must be so careful with it.
Got to run ……………. “honey-do” list.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
12:12 pm
Bruno –
you left out the key passage from Jay’s post – the nugget, if you will, that defines the part you did quote:
“I love these folks who try to pretend that the working-class and middle-class people left behind in the past generation were just partying 24/7 and were just basically lazy good for nothings.”
Jay was calling out the people who were saying that, if you weren’t rich, it’s because you’re lazy and expect the gummint to give you everything. THAT’S what I was applauding raucously … and still do.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:13 pm
“md, rich dems pay the same taxes as rich repubs…..they just whine less about it”
Not contesting that, but the ones on the right are not the ones that believe everything should be equal – at least they tell you that to your face vs talking the talk and not walking the walk.
Matilda
February 24th, 2010
12:14 pm
Everyone sees through their own filters, I suppose. I don’t have “wealth envy,” as material excess makes me uncomfortable. (Camel, meet eye of needle.) What I resent is that while I’m working all my life and giving it all to somebody else every single month, (head of household, my choice) big corp. entities (more rights than people) and the people who hide in their folds, own my “representatives” — who make it clear they don’t represent ME — and enjoy ginormous tax breaks that are not available to me, the working sucker. Y’all can keep your beamers, manolo blahniks and biannual facelifts. Truly. All I ask from the moneyed is that you SHUT the FRICK UP already. Wah, wah, some poor woman wants food and medicine for her kid and it’s not MY kid! Wah wah wah! Save your whining for hell. I’m over it.
Bud Wiser
February 24th, 2010
12:14 pm
USinUK, you are correct, I am in error, it is in fact new homes sales, not construction, dipping to an all time low in January.
But, how could weather be a factor? After all, Owl Gore’s global warming and all of his drones belief in such just simply not correlate that statement?
Perhaps it has more to do with Obowo’s coordinated attacks on the banking system in general, and them being afraid to loan now to anyone without a gold standard credit level. Maybe Barney Franks/ Bill Clinton’ CRA and demanding the banks at that time to throw money at the unqualified borrowers just didn’t stick; that’s funny in itself though, Democrat sh*t usually sticks to everything.
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
12:15 pm
“but the ones on the right are not the ones that believe everything should be equal ”
Well, I’m not on the right…and I don’t think EVERYthing should be equal, but I do think we should strive to make as much FAIR as we can.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:16 pm
“Jay was calling out the people who were saying that, if you weren’t rich, it’s because you’re lazy and expect the gummint to give you everything. THAT’S what I was applauding raucously … and still do.”
Wrong……
Jay was assuming from a question asked, and apparently so was usuk.
May want to go back and read the post as written, vs the post as perceived.
There is a difference.
Sam
February 24th, 2010
12:16 pm
md, thats a talking point. helping out folks who need it most is not making everything “equal” ….
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2010
12:16 pm
Scout, I warned her weeks ago that mocking God wouldn’t work out too well for her. She’s continued to do it every day since. She appears to enjoy it and think she’s being cute.
I can’t say I blame you for trying though as we are all called to do.
USinUK
February 24th, 2010
12:18 pm
Bud – “But, how could weather be a factor?”
as much as you reeeeeeeelly, reeeeeeeelly want to blame the Dems for this, the fact is NOBODY wants to go out in the cold and snow to shop.
for anything.
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
12:19 pm
“that doesn’t mean I begrudge anything – but I think that, if you ask anyone to compare someone who makes $20K/yr of investment income vs. a nurse earning $20K/yr working in an ER, they’d probably say the same.”
How did the person making 20K per year investing get to that point? Someone just handed them the money? That seems to be the popular notion on the JB blog. Without capital investment, our economy is going nowhere fast–see Africa. Jay and others here like to claim that everyone’s contribution to society is equal, implying that we all should earn the same income. Maybe in some Buddhistic/Gestalt/airy-fairy way this is true if everyone logs in similar hours earning their income. However, the bottom line is that all labor is NOT equal. And the bottom line is that capital investment is the “rare” quantity, not labor. As such, I don’t understand your demonization of the capital investors in our economy.
Sam
February 24th, 2010
12:20 pm
check the history of home sales (noerw or not) in tyhe months of Jan/Feb….please move on, nothing to see here
md
February 24th, 2010
12:21 pm
“Well, I’m not on the right…and I don’t think EVERYthing should be equal, but I do think we should strive to make as much FAIR as we can.”
Nothing wrong with that. I was taught that life isn’t fair, and will never be fair, so plan accordingly.
Our gov’t will never be able to achieve “fair” – it’s impossible.
Paul
February 24th, 2010
12:23 pm
Jenifer
Re: Wall Street contributions shifting from Dems to Reps: when they don’t get value for money, they shift. If bribes don’t work with one, they try another.
Full federal funding of elections…..
Scooter:
[My point was going to a “Christian” school, or being a member of a “Christian” church, or being a member of the original twlelve disciples (Judas) does NOT make one a Christian.]]
Excellent point and one the “Pres Obama is really a Muslim – he went to a Muslim school, remember?” crowd should absorb.
Mick
February 24th, 2010
12:26 pm
**“Pres Obama is really a Muslim – he went to a Muslim school, remember?” **
Paranoia will destroy ya..
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
12:26 pm
“Our gov’t will never be able to achieve “fair” – it’s impossible”
and I didn’t say it could. I said as fair AS POSSIBLE.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:26 pm
“helping out folks who need it most is not making everything “equal” ….”
One can’t be truly “helped” until that individual chooses to help themselves.
There is a need for a safety net, but also a need for education.
Assistance without conditions = dependence.
Education = independence.
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
12:27 pm
“Jay was calling out the people who were saying that, if you weren’t rich, it’s because you’re lazy and expect the gummint to give you everything. THAT’S what I was applauding raucously … and still do.”
And for every negative comment from the “righties” regarding the poor, there is at least one negative comment from the “lefties” regarding the rich. Yet ultimately, I think there’s a little more truth on the side of the “righties”. I know very few poor people who worked hard and made good decisions with their money. Anecdotal evidence for sure, but I run into a lot of poor people due to the part of town I work in.
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
12:27 pm
“Assistance without conditions”
Please provide links to whoever is asking for this. I’ve never seen anyone HERE call for any such thing, but since you said it…they MUST exist somewhere, right?
Midori
February 24th, 2010
12:29 pm
this reminds me of so many here: http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tr/2010/tr100224.gif
Bruno
February 24th, 2010
12:31 pm
“Many people DO believe that this is the case…..and in current situations, it’s viewed as the rich continue to get rich AT THE EXPENSE of the poor and middle class.”
“big corp. entities (more rights than people) and the people who hide in their folds, own my “representatives” — who make it clear they don’t represent ME — and enjoy ginormous tax breaks that are not available to me, the working sucker.”
HDB and Matilda– I well understand that is the perception, but the facts just don’t bear out your claims per the data that Jay provided yesterday. The share of taxes paid by the wealthy has steadily risen the past 40 years while the share paid by the poor has steadily fallen. You are welcome to continue with your wealth-envy fantasies, but don’t expect any respect from me.
md
February 24th, 2010
12:31 pm
“Please provide links to whoever is asking for this. I’ve never seen anyone HERE call for any such thing, but since you said it…they MUST exist somewhere, right?”
May want to check the thresholds of the upcoming hc bill.
Sam
February 24th, 2010
12:32 pm
md, i’m assuming what you’re getting at is the whole ‘welfare queen’ myth…here’s a little clue for you….we are assisting people with student loans/head start/school lunch programs, there conditions on welfare/food stamps (lifetime benefits, what they’re used for), and vast majority of people on public assistance are not it temporarily….no doubt there are people taking advantage of the system but far less than you think. some people are beyond help, does that mean we stop helping the ones that arent?
Doggone/GA
February 24th, 2010
12:33 pm
“May want to check”
In other words, you don’t have any. The problem is you left something out of your original list:
Assistance with EDUCATION = independence
Mick
February 24th, 2010
12:37 pm
**The share of taxes paid by the wealthy has steadily risen the past 40 years while the share paid by the poor has steadily fallen**
As well it should be. I do not begrudge a man and his wealth except when the material possession becomes more important than humanity. A deficit of character is far worse than a deficit of wealth.
@@
February 24th, 2010
12:37 pm
Talk about your dishonest “brokers”…
this one takes the cake–YOURS!
ObamaCare at Ramming Speed
The White House shows it has no interest in compromise.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704454304575081391789004352.html
The larger political message of this new proposal is that Mr. Obama and Democrats have no intention of compromising on an incremental reform, or of listening to Republican, or any other, ideas on health care. They want what they want, and they’re going to play by Chicago Rules and try to dragoon it into law on a narrow partisan vote via Congressional rules that have never been used for such a major change in national policy. If you want to know why Democratic Washington is “ungovernable,” this is it.
Government price fixing? That is like…..so-o-ooo Chavez, it’s scary. May as well dissolve the Senate if they go with inappropriate use of reconciliation. The senate is there to act as a balance. If they’re rendered obsolete, congress will be able to legislative, unobstructed, from their isolated bubble.
Obama either understands The Constitution and has no use for it, or he’s ignorant of its intended purpose. Either way, it does not bode well for America.
Matilda
February 24th, 2010
12:37 pm
“You are welcome to continue with your wealth-envy fantasies, but don’t expect any respect from me.”
Again, I have my flaws, but “wealth envy” ain’t one of them. My representatives don’t represent me: THAT is what ticks me off. As for fantasies, you know nothing of mine, but you probably have figured out not all women are the golddiggers you wish we were. Perhaps money can buy everything but it can’t buy everyone!
Gee, you don’t respect me and never will. Color me shocked. Guess I’ll have to learn to live with that. (Can someone please paste one of those eyeroll smilies for me?)
md
February 24th, 2010
12:37 pm
Bruno,
Here is what set Jay off yesterday, a simple question. No commentary, no conclusions, just a question:
“Should a student that studies 24/7, sacrifices and does no partying and makes straight A’s have to share those A’s with a student that partys 24/7, does very little studying and makes D’s and F’s????”
What was interesting were the responses such as usuk, matilda, and others. None of them answered the question, but all had comments related to perceived conclusions – including Jay.