A conscious effort to deceive is unacceptable

Over at Andrew Breitbart’s site, the day’s featured video is a compilation of remarks by Barack Obama, Harry Reid and other Democratic senators back in 2005, in which they strongly condemn Republicans for considering what was called “the nuclear option.”

At the time, the Democratic minority in the Senate was filibustering to block confirmation of some of President Bush’s judicial nominees. Frustrated, Republicans threatened to retaliate by rewriting Senate rules to permanently strip minority senators of the right to filibuster such nominations.

That was hardly the only change being contemplated. Rewriting Senate rules requires a two-thirds majority, which the Republicans didn’t have. So the Republicans were threatening to strip the minority of its historic right to filibuster by ignoring the equally historic requirement of a two-thirds majority to change Senate rules. If carried out, such a revolution would permanently alter the core nature and tradition of the Senate.

Hence, the term “nuclear option.”

The change was so controversial that in the end, senators cut a deal, with Democrats allowing some of the nominations to go through and the Republicans agreeing to drop the nuclear option.

Here’s that video:

The video is clearly intended to depict the Democrats as hypocrites, since Reid and Obama are now threatening to use the Senate reconciliation process to pass health-insurance reform. Reading through the comments at Breitbart’s site, that’s exactly how his audience is taking it — as vile hypocrisy.

But they’re swallowing sucker bait.

The problem is, the “nuclear option” that Democrats railed against in 2005 is not reconciliation, any more than a hammer is an orange. They aren’t even close to the same thing, and the folks at Breitbart are probably smart enough to know it.

The reconciliation process is outlined in existing Senate rules as a legitimate means to avoid the filibuster. Its use requires no rule changes, permanent or temporary, and no abandonment of Senate tradition. Reconciliation is itself part of that tradition. As Reid pointed out yesterday, reconciliation has been used 21 times since 1981, most often by Republican majorities. It’s a standard parliamentary option.

And as NPR reports, its use has often involved health-care reform.

“In fact, the way in which virtually all of health reform, with very, very limited exceptions, has happened over the past 30 years has been the reconciliation process,” says Sara Rosenbaum, who chairs the Department of Health Policy at George Washington University.

For example, the law that lets people keep their employers’ health insurance after they leave their jobs is called COBRA, not because it has anything to do with snakes, but because it was included as one fairly minor provision in a huge reconciliation bill, she says.

“The correct name is continuation benefits. And the only reason it’s called COBRA is because it was contained in the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985; and that is how we came up with the name COBRA,” she says.

So what we have here are two issues:

One, reconciliation is not the “nuclear option.” If Breitbart wants to dig out video of Democrats complaining in such dire terms about previous GOP use of reconcilation, that would be fine and would certainly be evidence of Dem hypocrisy. But apparently he can’t.

And that gets us to the second, more important point. The Breitbart site is lying. He is playing his audience for fools, and the sad part is that they don’t mind, because in return they get the reassurance that their hatred of the other side is justified. Everybody wins, right?

Well, no. We all have honest differences of opinion. We all bring our own perspectives to the debate. We all think that we’re right and they’re wrong, whoever “we” and “they” may be.

But this isn’t spin, this is willful, gross deception. And such blatant disregard for the facts makes meaningful debate and communication impossible; in fact, in cases like this it is designed to do precisely that.

Surely, those on the right will be able to cite what they see as examples of similar behavior on the left, and of course are free to post them here. I make no claims that either side has a monopoly on the problem. But such deception by any party is truly the “nuclear option,” and if we’re not careful it will undermine both our country and democracy.

The effort to at least try to be honest in our discussion, even if our own bias means we come up short, ought to be the minimum required of responsible citizenship

496 comments Add your comment

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:11 pm

But…but…but Breitbart is like the Bible!

Bud Wiser

February 24th, 2010
3:13 pm

So how does this “unconscionable deception” not apply to global warming? (debunked)

Fannie May / Freddy Mac loan practices? (overlooked)

Obama’s tax cheats he appointed? (too numerous to mention)

Vann Jones?

Charlie Rangel?

I could list hundreds, perhaps thousands, but I have made my point.

Obama’s ‘nuclear option’ is self inflicted (political) suicide he wants his minions to make, in an effort to prop up his lowering approval numbers.

Talk about deception…………

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:14 pm

Willful, gross deception – sounds like a lot of republicants I’ve come in contact with.

stands for decibels

February 24th, 2010
3:14 pm

that’s exactly how his audience is taking it

what’s that? Breitbart’s audience believes stupid, made-up stuff?

Bud Wiser

February 24th, 2010
3:15 pm

I heard today that Congress’ approval ratings have sunk to a shocking 10%.

Obowo will have no conscious whatsoever about feeding that kind of garbage to the wolves; problem is getting the wolves to bite.

Kamchak

February 24th, 2010
3:15 pm

Why did the Republicans threaten the nuclear option back in 2005? If the reconciliation process doesn’t involve a two-thirds majority rule change, why didn’t they use that instead?

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:16 pm

Kamchak, reconciliation is limited to spending-related matters, and is not available on votes such as confirmations.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:16 pm

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:11 pm

So the video, and the speakers in the video, are to be discredited? LOL!!!

NowReally

February 24th, 2010
3:17 pm

And I thought the rabid comments by our conservative friends on this site were HARSH. The people who commented on that site are down right mean spirited and ugly. They make the regulars on this blog look like Sunday School teachers.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:19 pm

Jay said “But this isn’t spin, this is willful, gross deception. And such blatant disregard for the facts makes meaningful debate and communication impossible; in fact, in cases like this it is designed to do precisely that.”

I guess it’s sort of like, “I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski,….. “

Disgusted

February 24th, 2010
3:21 pm

So how is it that Senate Republicans could use reconciliation to pass the Bush tax cuts, with only 50 votes in favor and Dick Cheney breaking the tie, but now it’s an abuse if the Democrats use it to pass a health care bill? Is reconciliation acceptable only if it’s initiated by Republicans?

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:22 pm

The people who read Breitbart or watch SaudiFaux News don’t care that they are being lied to over and over again. They like the lies so they continue to visit.

They have a desire for the world to be a particular way and when they are provided a fantasy medium that delivers on their desires, they are happy.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:22 pm

These are the 2005 quotes about using a 51 person Senate majority. There is no distinction about what is being proposed, it’s merely statements against the use of the “nuclear option”. Hilarious

“…will change the character of the Senate forever”….Barack Obama

“…that’s just not what the founders intended”….Barack Obama

W said “change the rules, do it the way I want it done”……Hilary Clinton

“…you have to restrain yourself Mr. President.”……Hilary Clinton

“We are on the precipice of a crisis, a Constitutional crisis”……Chuck Shumer

“the checks and balances which have been at the core of this Republic are about to be evaporated by the nuclear option”…….Chuck Shumer

“the nuclear option, if successful, will turn the Senate into a body that could have its rules broken at any time by a majority of Senators…”….Diane Feinstein

“This nuclear option is an ultimate example of the arrogance of power. It is a fundamental power grab…”….Joe Biden

“..arrogance of power of this republican administration…”….Harry Reid

“I pray God when the Democrats take back control we don’t make the kind of naked power grab you are doing.”….Joe Biden

“…what were the framers thinking about 218 years ago. They understood. Mr. President, there is a tyranny of the majority”….Chris Dodd

Go ahead, libs, deny, spin, twist, warp, etc.

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:22 pm

Yes it is, Jimmy.

And as I’ve mentioned here before, I urged Clinton’s resignation over that.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:24 pm

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:22 pm

Strong words from someone who regularly cuts and pasted the Huffington Post, NY Times, Daily Kos, etc.

So Breitbart has doctored this video? Perhaps they did voice overs. Yeah, that’s it. Dick Cheney got some sound alikes and had Breitbart do voice overs. Yeah!!

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:24 pm

Have you no shame, Jimmy?

Reconciliation is not the nuclear option. Period.

Yet to make yourself feel better about your political choices, you’re willing to ignore reality and embrace deception.

stands for decibels

February 24th, 2010
3:25 pm

Not-fit-to-carry-Jimmy-Carter’s jockstrap @ 3.22, those guys weren’t talking about the use of reconciliation to pass a bill.

But, nice try.

Kamchak

February 24th, 2010
3:26 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe

February 24th, 2010
3:26 pm

It’s all a matter of whose ox is getting gored. They’re all politicians and in many cases, hypocrisy comes with the territory. The in crowd will always try to walk all over the out crowd and the out crowd will always holler like a stuck hog.

Scooter

February 24th, 2010
3:28 pm

They have a desire for the world to be a particular way and when they are provided a fantasy medium that delivers on their desires, they are happy.

Pot meet kettle!

md

February 24th, 2010
3:28 pm

Oh heavens, not slanted news from a media source. Tell me its not so.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:24 pm

You’re the authority on all things evil with conservatives, Jay. Shoot, you don’t even need the nuclear option. As a member of the “Freedom of the Press” corp. you singlehandedly have the ability to suppress anything I, or others, post. You can ban us temporarily or permanently, without filibuster or through exercising the nuclear option.

Sam

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

jay, save you’re breath. they like being lied to, as long as it fits into their narrow world view its cool….

Doggone/GA

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

“Tell me its not so”

It isn’t so. “slanting

Outhouse GoKart

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

Hammers, Oranges…we making orange juice here?

Regardless I say “Barry and Dems…GO FOR BROKE!!” and setup the next 12 years or Republican reign.

Doggone/GA

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:29 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe

February 24th, 2010
3:26 pm

Harumph, harumph!!

Sam

February 24th, 2010
3:30 pm

right on Hillbilly….

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:30 pm

“The effort to at least try to be honest in our discussion, even if our own bias means we come up short, ought to be the minimum required of responsible citizenship”

In my mind that applies those on here who use words such as dummycrats, and republicants, obozo etc…

Whacks Eloquent

February 24th, 2010
3:30 pm

Jay, have you heard whether or not the House voted to remove anti-trust exemption to the health insurance industry? That arcane provision needs to be done away with – I can’t think of an industry that the American people benefit from having anti-trust exemption.

And I agree, the reconciliation plan being touted by Democrats is not the same as what Republicans wanted in 2005. They were trying to clear a logjam of judicial nominees…but I did not like their plan either. Democrats can try reconciliation, but it may wind up being a kamikaze mission…ask whether it is worth it. Would liberals really say health care is that much more important that it is worth risking the elections on? It would seriously limit President Obama’s goals for the remainder of his first term if the GOP sweeps back into Congressional majority.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:33 pm

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:24 pm

“Embrace deception”? I would have been doing so had I believed your previous article where you stated you did not blame W for the current economic mess we find ourselves in.

scrappy

February 24th, 2010
3:33 pm

Thanks for pointing out the difference between these two options. I am meeting some friends for drinks later tonight and that always brings out the liberal/Obama bashing, I love being able to throw a fact back to them and prove them wrong. One comment, one friend at a time, I will show them that the right-radio-talking heads are making things up!

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:33 pm

I would agree, jewcowboy.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:33 pm

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:30 pm

Looks like we’re agreeing on yet something else.

Whacks Eloquent

February 24th, 2010
3:35 pm

That said, I think it is a bit sneaky that reconciliation is used by either side to do anything other than just get a budget through so that the government can keep functioning. I use that last word lightly…
Sneaky? What the heck am I thinking? We are talking about politicians…who have similar personality traits to serial killers! (from FBI BAU – yeah like the show Criminal Minds!) Awesome show BTW!

Whacks Eloquent

February 24th, 2010
3:38 pm

off-topic…
What, GEORGIA hosted a high-speed rail consortium for the Southeast states?
Well that is the surprise of the day!

http://www.dot.ga.gov/localgovernment/intermodalprograms/Documents/1-26-10.pdf

stands for decibels

February 24th, 2010
3:38 pm

Would liberals really say health care is that much more important that it is worth risking the elections on?

That question presupposes that there is no risk in allowing HCR to die on the vine.

Mid-terms are won by getting your base fired up. And there ain’t no base that’s gonna go the extra mile this November, to support weak-kneed Dems who couldn’t deliver on their single most significant 2008 domestic-policy pledge. Na gone duit.

Dave R.

February 24th, 2010
3:40 pm

So, under Jay’s rules, anytime a Democrat comes out and says the GOP doesn’t have a proposed plan regarding health care reform, that is now considered a “conscious effort to deceive”?

And it is now unacceptable to say as much?

Works for me.

Can’t wait for Jay’s next editorial denouncing Robert Gibbs, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for their “unacceptable” efforts to deceive.

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:40 pm

Would liberals really say health care is that much more important that it is worth risking the elections on?

If the purpose of politics is to get re-elected, then no.

If the purpose of politics is to help the country, then yes.

Whacks Eloquent

February 24th, 2010
3:41 pm

db, good point. Glad I am not employed as a Democrat strategist! They must be keeping Rolaids in business right now! It is definitely a calculated risk – whatever course of action they take.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:43 pm

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:40 pm

Gee, count me in with the majority of Americans who don’t believe the proposed healthcare plan will actually “help the country”.

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:43 pm

Jimmy Carter @ 3.33,

That is 3, the Mayan calendar must right, the world is coming to an end ;) Just kidding. I’ve never understood why it is necessary for some to use words such as that. For those who use them, It undermines their argument and is simply a way for them to disparage an opposing perspective while showing everyone that they are closed minded. If one’s argument cannot stand without denigrating another with silly name calling, then perhaps one needs rethink their premise.

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

Max Blumenthal: Feeling The Hate At CPAC 2010 With Andrew Breitbart, Hannah Giles And The Crazy Mob

Thank you, Mr Blumenthal, for revealing the underlying bigotry of these hardcore conservatives masquerading as constitutional advocates who are continually quoting many of our misguided slave-holding founding fathers and their vision of how and what America should be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/feeling-the-hate-at-cpac_b_474077.html

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:43 pm

You know, you and I probably have a lot more in common than most would think. But if we went somewhere together you’d have to drive. That way you could be on the left and I could be on the right.

md

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

“In my mind that applies those on here who use words such as dummycrats, and republicants, obozo etc…”

Hear, hear…….

Dusty

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

Too bad Bookman; did not notice all this vile behavior when it started the day Bush became president of the USA. The vilification of Bush never stopped. It continued for eight years and destroyed all confidence in anything Democrats suggest now..

Bookman wants us to be ” good citizens.”.Republicans must understand and appreciate anything Obama wants Congress to pass. Fortunately, Congress hears the voice of citizens renouncing Obama’s health plan even as he tries with “nuclear option” or any other twist or turn he can bring forward. Good citizens or not, Americans do not want his health plan

As to Breitbart deceiving us, I have never read him. Don’t plan to either. But I do know that I do not want Obama’s health plan. But he’s not listening. Neither is Bookman . He’s reading Breitbart

Yep, one source, and everybody is lying. Way to go, Bookman, but nothing new.

Before someone pipes up saying “I want Obama’s health plan.”, I only give my impression of what I’ve seen, read, heard and my own opinion.. I will not be led like a sheep to the slaughter just to prove that “I’m a GOOD CITIZEN”, I hope the rest of you are not ready to be led where you don’t want to go.; to government being your doctor. NO WAY!

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:47 pm

Jenifer

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

You see, I knew you’d link to a Huffington Post article.

md

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

“Mid-terms are won by getting your base fired up.”

I’d have to disagree – like all elections in recent times, its convincing the swing vote, and from what I’m seeing, they done swung.

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

Gee, count me in with the majority of Americans who don’t believe the proposed healthcare plan will actually “help the country”.

No problem, Jimmy, that’s just an honest political disagreement.

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

You know, all this talk about whether or not the healthcare plan will be good for America overlooks the fact that we have to convince CHINA it’s good for them, else we can’t fund it.

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

Jimmy Carter,

“That way you could be on the left and I could be on the right.”

Or maybe just switch seats to gain a new perspective?

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:50 pm

md

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

Nice!

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:50 pm

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

Hear, hear!!

Normal

February 24th, 2010
3:52 pm

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
3:43 pm

Well said and quite right(no pun intended)
-=————————————–

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:46 pm

:D

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
3:52 pm

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:49 pm

Wow, no condescending “have you no shame” opener?

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:54 pm

I have no problem with honest disagreement and honest discussion, Jimmy. It’s the other kind that bothers me, because it makes debate impossible.

Bud Wiser

February 24th, 2010
3:56 pm

Jay, you said: …”Well, no. We all have honest differences of opinion. We all bring our own perspectives to the debate….

We may debate here, but in Washington, since BO took hold, there has been no debate.

Virtually every single amendment (maybe a handful got through) proposed by Republicans never even made it out of committee, stored gored and ignored by the ranking Democrats. The Repugs became the “party of no” in the sense that the Dems said, “no, we’re not interested in what you have to say, you had your chance.”

Yet the dimwittocrats could not even pass 1 single piece of meaningful legislation with the supposed ’super majority’ because of their own infighting, that, plus Obowo’s psycho fixation on his version and his party’s version of health care reform that the majority of Americans does not even want. They want health care reform, but just not his or his party’s sole determination of what it should be.

Yet the Dems move on, trying yet again tomorrow.

Sad.

Sad and pathetic.

November shall not arrive here soon enough..

Till then we shall still be watching this pathetic group of losers trying to cram down America’s throat something they do not want.

I only have 4 more words to say:

Virginia

New Jersey

Massachusetts

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
4:01 pm

“The Repugs became the “party of no” …”

“Yet the dimwittocrats …”

“plus Obowo’s psycho fixation on his version…”

And there we have it.

md

February 24th, 2010
4:01 pm

Hate to break it to you Jay, but there are mnay of us that no longer believe any news sources. Once the corporations and power brokers started buying them all up, its been all downhill.

Goes along with the mantra – believe none of what you hear and half of what you see………..

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
4:02 pm

Jay

February 24th, 2010
3:54 pm

Well then I guess you and I will be unable to engage in “honest disagreement and honest discussion”. After all, you said I was “willing to ignore reality and embrace deception.”

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
4:05 pm

md

February 24th, 2010
4:01 pm

Agreed. I always think of Walter Cronkite in times like these. A giant in the industry, yet I don’t recall hearing his political views injected in to his broadcast. It was after he retired that I read something along the lines that he was a Socialist or something like that. Don’t tear me up if I’m wrong, but I do remember many people being surprised about his political views because the didn’t play his cards for all to see when he was with CBS.

Goodnight Chet….Goodnight David….and goodnight for NBC News.

Huntley and Brinkley, Walter Cronkite, man, those were the days!

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:06 pm

by the way, Breitbart is just a d bag with a website…alot like TMZ really….so who cares?

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:07 pm

Jimmy, what was wrong with Jay’s observation? seems right on from here…

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
4:07 pm

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:06 pm

Did you come up with that one all by yourself, or did you first check out the Huffington Post?

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:09 pm

Bud, they passed to TARP and ARRA. those were meaningful pieces of legislation…they just passed a job bill…

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:14 pm

Matilda–If you’re still on board, here’s “our” song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD-_KYEDugI

“I’d rather feel pain than nothing at all……..”

Vinny

February 24th, 2010
4:14 pm

Same difference Jay – The dems are attaching this “health care” monstrosity that will eventually take over 17% of our economy onto a “spending bill” so that they can use reconcilliation.

They know that the bill is a piece of crap and it won’t pass on it’s own, so they are using their own version of the “nuclear option”.

Nice try though.

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:15 pm

JCB @ 4:01 – unfortunately, that is ALL he has.

Pathetic, isn’t it?

md

February 24th, 2010
4:15 pm

Question for you Sam – how many times do the taxpayers get to bail out Chrysler?

How many corporations in this country have not been bailed out? Why the difference?

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:17 pm

Vinny,

pretty much like those tax cuts in 2002?

you know – the ones directed primarily to the rich? the ones that did absolutely nothing for the middle class and poor?

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:19 pm

Breitbart needs to invest in a capable web page designer.

Yeech!!

Vinny

February 24th, 2010
4:19 pm

I’m middle class and received a tax cut. Those were great times for our economy.

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:20 pm

“They know that the bill is a piece of crap and it won’t pass on it’s own, so they are using their own version of the “nuclear option”.

Vinny–Far and away, the biggest problem in our health care system is cost. Not quality, not accessibility, but cost. Somehow, the Democrats believe that forcing everyone to purchase health care insurance is going to lower the overall costs. Never mind the fact that it is the third-party payment system itself which has led to the high costs in the first place due to unnecessary administrative costs along with waste and fraud that consumers now turn a blind eye toward simply because they aren’t pulling any money out of their own pockets.

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:22 pm

“you know – the ones directed primarily to the rich? the ones that did absolutely nothing for the middle class and poor?”

I guess I need to count Midori among the liberals here whose views have no relationship to reality:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/67479-comparing-income-taxes-clinton-vs-bush

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
4:23 pm

Midori,

” the ones that did absolutely nothing for the middle class and poor?”

That is not true…they ensured greater income disparity for the middle class/poor and the wealthy. That’s something. Not something good, but something.

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:23 pm

whats huffingon post?

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:24 pm

not sure MD…how many?

Ragnar Danneskjöld

February 24th, 2010
4:25 pm

A conscious effort to deceive is unacceptable. The reconciliation process is designed for the narrow purpose of passing a budget. Anysuggestion that reconciliation has ever been intended as a way to sidestep the difficulties of major legislative reform in the senate may be described as “deceptive.” On this point Andrew Breitbart is less deceptive than our genial host. Such a misuse of a budget clearing device to affect major policy change is, indeed, nuclear.

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:27 pm

better watch out, JCB.

Next some will be calling you a misinformed, lying liberal!!!!

Ragnar Danneskjöld

February 24th, 2010
4:27 pm

Having argued that the use of the budget process, to impose a highly undesired new program on the sheep, is unprecedented, I confess that I hope the democrats do so. The mere name “democrat” will be poison at the polling place in November.

AF

February 24th, 2010
4:27 pm

“A conscious effort to deceive is unacceptable.”

“Unacceptable.” What an old fashioned word. To even use the word implies that there is some definition of what is and is not acceptable. It implies there is a right and a wrong, a truth and a lie, good and bad behavior. (I am remembering how often I used that word with my child. At about 10 she tried that stunt of rolling her eyes and saying “whatever” until I grounded her about ten times for doing that.)

Amongadults, in order for there to be acceptable behavior there has to be some agreement on right, wrong, truth, lie, good, bad. We don’t seem to have such an ethos.

What Beatlebug did was acceptable to those who support stopping the Dems. Acceptable means that it accomplishes the purpose.

I know what you mean, Jay. And I am sickened by there being no boundries anymore. Ethics doesn’t matter as long as it works. As in your last subject here, it isn’t just Pus who do it, although they are masterful at it.

Oh, well. Another letter to my Senators and representative.

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
4:28 pm

Vinny,

“I’m middle class and received a tax cut.”

“The TaxPolicyCenter data show that the combined effect of the tax cuts in 2004 is as follows:

■The one-fifth of households in the middle of the income spectrum will receive an average tax cut of $647.
■The top one percent of households will receive tax cuts averaging almost $35,000 — or 54 times as much as that received on average by those in the middle of the income spectrum.
■Households with incomes above $1 million will receive tax cuts averaging about $123,600. The tax cuts for millionaires will cause their after-tax income to jump by 6.4 percent, nearly three times the percentage increase received by the middle fifth.

The overall shares of the tax cuts that are going to different households also are illuminating. The TaxPolicyCenter data show that:

■In 2004, the middle 20 percent of households will receive 8.9 percent of the tax cuts.
■By contrast, millionaires — totaling just 0.2 percent of U.S. households — will receive 15.3 percent of the tax cuts. In other words, the small handful of millionaires will receive total tax cuts far larger than those received by the entire middle 20 percent of households.
■The tax cuts will confer more than $30 billion on the nation’s 257,000 millionaires in 2004 alone.” ~ Center on Budget and Policy Priorites

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:28 pm

“I have no problem with honest disagreement and honest discussion, Jimmy. It’s the other kind that bothers me, because it makes debate impossible.”

“Do you really want your sincerity, judgment and honesty to be gauged by that claim? Come on. You know better.”

So, I guess questioning someone’s sincerity, judgment and honesty qualifies as “healthy debate”? Just curious…….

(We’re all human)

From the desk of Phil Gramm

February 24th, 2010
4:29 pm

What’d I do. I didn’t do nothing. Go Dawgs. By the way, good work, Jay. Of course, you realize that this means war. I’ll just push through my legislation at 11:59:59 on the last day that the government can legally stay open without a new budget. You cannot stop me.

jewcowboy

February 24th, 2010
4:29 pm

Midori,

“Next some will be calling you a misinformed, lying liberal!!!!”

Too late. Did you not see NIF’s rant last night against me?

Number1ninja

February 24th, 2010
4:29 pm

But lost in all this is how quickly the borg can receive its new disinformation and repeat it ad nauseum.

Matilda

February 24th, 2010
4:30 pm

“We” don’t have a song, dude. I have a song. It’s called, “My big jealous boyfriend doesn’t think you’re funny.” Do you know it?

Pat

February 24th, 2010
4:30 pm

Sorry Jay, but the mouth-breathing ditto-heads who troll on your site are exactly the type of “suckers” for whom such sites (and the entire Faux “News” Broadcasts) are intended. Stupid people love being lied to, when it confirms previously held prejudices and reinforces ignorance.

Scout

February 24th, 2010
4:31 pm

The very definition of the word “politician” to me means “distrust”.

The very definition of the word “journalist” to means “verify”.

Bottom line?

Each have become two of the least respected occupations one can have but somehow we still find the type of people willing to maintain the traditions of both.

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:32 pm

JCB,

I tend to scroll past idiotic nonsense such as that.

DoggoneGA

February 24th, 2010
4:33 pm

“Somehow, the Democrats believe that forcing everyone to purchase health care insurance is going to lower the overall costs. ”

Actually, no “we” don’t. We think it will help lower the cost to the PATIENT. The overall cost of healthcare is a different issue, and it too needs to be addressed. But no matter which system you prefer: mandated insurance, single-payer, government run…the “company” with the most paying “customer” had the greatest bargaining strength. Which is why group plans can negotiate better healthcare costs than a single person with an individual plan can possibly negotiate.

Which brings me to a perpetual lament of mine: WHY can’t these insurance companies create “group” plans for their current individual buyers, as well as those currently uninsured? Why not? I have yet to see this even brought up in the dicsussions, let alone seen anyone try to answer it. If they would do that, they could probably kill “reform” dead.

Sam

February 24th, 2010
4:34 pm

Rag, does this HC legislation affect the budget? is there budget involved in the bill…yepper! its been used many times beyond the original intent of strict budget resolutions..

Jimmy Carter

February 24th, 2010
4:34 pm

Pat

February 24th, 2010
4:30 pm

Spoken like a charter member of MSNBC.

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:35 pm

“The TaxPolicyCenter data show that the combined effect of the tax cuts in 2004 is as follows”

Which proves only that you can pretty much paint any picture you want depending on how you present the statistics. Your figures would be more honest if you compared the amount of the reductions with what the folks were paying to begin with. Stating absolute amounts doesn’t mean much otherwise. I think Jay’s figures from yesterday’s column paint a more accurate picture by framing the argument in terms of % of the total tax revenues collected by income level and by comparing the % of total income each person is paying by income level. When you look at it either of those ways, the rich are paying the vast majority of the total taxes collected AND the highest percentage of their total income in taxes than any other income group.

Since the “poor” are already paying little or no taxes, jewcowboy, what specific change in the tax code would make things more “fair”?

Bruno

February 24th, 2010
4:37 pm

““My big jealous boyfriend doesn’t think you’re funny.” Do you know it?”

Out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to threaten people because you don’t like what they said about you on a blog?

Jay

February 24th, 2010
4:37 pm

Ragnar, if you want to argue that this is an inappropriate use of reconciliation, that’s at least an honest argument.

It is not honest to pretend that reconciliation is the “nuclear option.” That’s a lie.

Scout

February 24th, 2010
4:39 pm

Local Headline: “Is Freaknik returning? A Web site says the event will come back in April, but Atlanta’s mayor doesn’t think it will happen.”

Oh good! Live sex acts on the hoods of cars on Peachtree Street again. Just some kids having fun. Nothing you wouldn’t have seen on Peachtree in the 40’s and 50’s right ?

Midori

February 24th, 2010
4:41 pm

Scout:

Freaknik returning?

“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”…………..

From the desk of Phil Gramm

February 24th, 2010
4:41 pm

I love reconciliation. How do you think Bush got all those tax cuts passed. All he had to do was conveniently leave off the cost of the wars from the budget and then promise to raise the taxes ten years down the road after he was out of office in order to pay for it. Of course, then the great recession hit and all those unregulated credit default swaps that I was told to take credit for thinking up way back then… anyway, the rest is history in the making and that’s why I like it in Switzerland.

Matilda

February 24th, 2010
4:43 pm

That wasn’t a threat, dude. It was a response to your randomly inappropriate music post with my name on it, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. I “got” it this morning: I’ll never have your respect. Thanks for sharing. I have now met my quota of off-topic posts. My apologies.