NYC terror suspect pleads guilty in civilian court
NEW YORK (AP) — A former Denver airport shuttle driver admitted Monday to a plot to bomb the New York City subways, saying he was recruited by al-Qaida in Pakistan for a “martyrdom plan” against the United States.
“I would sacrifice myself to bring attention to what the U.S. military was doing to civilians in Afghanistan,” Najibullah Zazi, 25, told a federal judge in a Brooklyn courtroom.
The Afghan native pleaded guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, conspiracy to commit murder in a foreign country and providing material support for a terrorist organization. He faces a life prison sentence without parole at a sentencing in June….
Law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that the jailed Zazi recently volunteered information about the bomb plot during a meeting with his attorney and federal prosecutors in Brooklyn. The sit-down, known as a proffer session, typically signals that a defendant has begun cooperating in a bid for a plea deal.
One of the people familiar with the Zazi case told the AP that Zazi decided to offer the information after being warned that his mother could face criminal immigration charges. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is in progress.”
Imagine that. A terror suspect who is handled through the civilian court system as a criminal, who gets the Miranda warning and other rights inherent in a human being, who is never waterboarded or tortured, yet who confesses and cooperates with investigators.
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350 comments Add your comment
ty webb
February 22nd, 2010
4:15 pm
Let’s hope he ends up in general population. Waterboarding could become the least of his worries.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:16 pm
“One of the people familiar with the Zazi case told the AP that Zazi decided to offer the information after being warned that his mother could face criminal immigration charges. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is in progress.”
Let me see if I’ve got this straight, torture is abomniable, and I agree it is, but blackmail and threats against a suspects’ family are not? Is this family vlaues at work or what?
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
4:20 pm
So they told him they were threatening his mother and that doesn’t count as coercion? Imagine that!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
February 22nd, 2010
4:22 pm
I wonder what info a dimwit like this has to offer?
Perhaps how to plot the subways in the town you live in?
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:23 pm
Torture is in the eyes of the beholder.
Waterboarding – bad. Telling him you are going to waterboard his mother – good.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:23 pm
RW–
I see you and I see the same thing here…
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:24 pm
md
I see you see the disconnect, too…
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:25 pm
JAY–
Would you care to respond to that?
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
4:27 pm
Torture is in the eyes of the beholder.
Waterboarding – bad. Telling him you are going to waterboard his mother – good.
Threat of deportation = threat of waterboarding.
Got it.
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:28 pm
Jo,
Its called justification for ones position or “side”. The proverbial dog chasing its tail.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:29 pm
K’Chak–
No, blackmail and threats against family members. Torture. Both illegal and both wrong. If we’re going to go for rule of law, and I say we must, then let’s not play pick and choose. It’s not a Chinese menu…
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:30 pm
“Threat of deportation = threat of waterboarding.
Got it.”
Its called exageration, used to make a point.
Of course, for all we know his family would be waterboarded or worse if deported, but that’s ok – out of sight out of mind.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
4:31 pm
md
This bothers me every bit as much as torture…does this type of coercion not rise to the level of mental torture?
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:34 pm
Where is the defense for psycological torture jay, or is this blog designed to only poke fun at one “side”.
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:38 pm
Jo,
The hypocrisy is what’s wrong with today’s society. It’s ok if my side does it……or it’s ok because they did it first.
Consistency is severly lacking. Jay seems to be so caught up in rubbing noses in the civilian/military debate that he overlooked the obvious.
Midori
February 22nd, 2010
4:39 pm
Kamchak,
I was scratching my head as well………
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
4:40 pm
josef
Zazi isn’t the first criminal that faced this carrot or stick. How do you know that Zazi’s mother wasn’t already facing immigration trouble and officials said confess to your crime and this all goes away?
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
4:40 pm
josef,
I hadn’t seen your comment when I typed mine, but that just seemed glaring to me. In some ways this kind of action is worse than any enhanced interrogation.
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:41 pm
My bad Jo, I gave him more credit than obviosly deserved as I read too fast.
“who is never waterboarded or tortured,”
Seems he sees nothing wrong with psycological torture.
Pogo
February 22nd, 2010
4:43 pm
You have opened my eyes Jay, NOT! This low level fool’s case does not justify civilian trials for the 9/11 “Gitmo Hard Cores”. Rationalize it all you want. The only reason you even care is because the “civilian trials for terrorists” issue has made Obama and Holder look like utter fools in the minds of the American people.
Those who grasp must often stoop and you stooped pretty badly on this one. Maybe its because you just wanted to throw some topic out so you could return to writing the column which you hope could ultimately lead to something bigger than being a blog master. If I were you, I would be hoping the same thing. This blog is becoming pretty sad. There is not much in the way of orginal thought on here and it has become basically a “paste a partisan site that agrees with my view” blog. It has disolved into mindless partisan bickering on the most basic level. Nothing is solved, no-one is englightened, nothing is gained and no-ones mind is changed.
As with so many things you progessives want these days, America is against you on this.
The progressives are toast.
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:44 pm
“How do you know that Zazi’s mother wasn’t already facing immigration trouble and officials said confess to your crime and this all goes away?”
We don’t, but according to the article:
“Zazi decided to offer the information after being warned that his mother could face criminal immigration charges.”
last I checked, could meant not yet.
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
4:44 pm
md
Just being incarcerated is psychological torture some might argue. If you do the crime expect to do the time and all the hell that comes with it.
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
4:46 pm
pogo
**As with so many things you progessives want these days, America is against you on this.**
So who declared you the voice of america?
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:47 pm
“If you do the crime expect to do the time and all the hell that comes with it.”
Now your back on that slippery slope that is torture. Can you define it for us?
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
4:51 pm
md
I can separate and define physical from mental torture, yes.
md
February 22nd, 2010
4:53 pm
“I can separate and define physical from mental torture, yes.”
And are they both wrong, or is one ok and not the other. You seem to be saying both are torture, can you expound.
Weak liberals
February 22nd, 2010
4:55 pm
If liberals, like New Yorkers who persecuted Adullah Hussein Zazi, were tough on criminals, this ISLAMIC MUSLIM terrorist (to be redundant again) would be on DEATH ROW!!!
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
4:58 pm
Look at this from the WaPo story.
After the post-Labor Day investigation and arrest of Zazi, authorities also arrested two Chicago men accused of helping scout the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai, the Army major accused in the shootings at Fort Hood, Tex., and a Nigerian man in the foiled Christmas Day bombing attempt aboard a transatlantic jetliner headed to Detroit.
So if I’m reading that right they had the guys that recruited the Ft Hood killer in custody for two months before he killed 13 and wounded 29 more but they were apparently more interested in waiting for a confession than getting information.
Admittedly that paragraph I excerpted so strangely that it may mean nothing of the sort.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
4:59 pm
“Zazi decided to offer the information after being warned that his mother could face criminal immigration charges.”
Personally, I want more information before passing judgement on this one sentence. So far I haven’t been able to find any references to his Mother in any other report.
ty webb
February 22nd, 2010
5:00 pm
physical, mental, psychological? What Phooey(excuse my language). Incarcerating someone is psychological torture? Seems like the bedwetters, in there constant quest to bash all thing Bush, have done nothing but blur the lines.
Jimmy Carter
February 22nd, 2010
5:00 pm
So, Jay, from your inferences you seem to suggest that ALL suspected terrorists will give up useful information if/when captured without anything but a “tell us pretty please” approach. Geez, how simple minded is that.
I wonder if every terrorist in the world has their mother living in the US and we can threaten them with deportation?
Kind of ironic, isn’t it? This guy is willing to kill himself and others here in the states because he hates the U.S. so much. However, when arrested, he spills the beans because we threaten to deport his mother from the country he hates so much. Go figure.
Del
February 22nd, 2010
5:00 pm
Waterboarding isn’t torture, it’s encouragement. Threatening harm to an innocent family member is emotional torture.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:00 pm
This is a two-step with the LAW and it’s the rule of law we are talking about, That has been the issue from jump street and we can’t go “oh, well, in this case and under these circumstances…” That’s the Cheney line of thought and it’s wrong.
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
5:02 pm
Speaking of strange wording my last paragraph should have been.
Admittedly that paragraph I excerpted is so strangely worded that it may mean nothing of the sort.
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:04 pm
md
I see where you are going with this. It’s a valid point, both are torture – one of the body, one of the mind. There are techniques that can be used to get information without using both types of torture.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2010
5:05 pm
Del,
And if the family member isn’t innocent?
Personally, I’m with Doggone on this.
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:08 pm
ty web
**Incarcerating someone is psychological torture**
Don’t take the comment out of context. Have you ever spent a night in jail? Done some time?
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:09 pm
BOSCH–
No go…did they “let her off the hook” once he “spilled the beans?” Was that the “deal?” This is the rule of law, I repeat, and it’s not a Chinese menu…
Bosch
February 22nd, 2010
5:10 pm
josef,
I don’t know – I’m not privy to that information. Are you? I think everyone is getting a little swoony over something that they know nothing about.
Jimmy Carter
February 22nd, 2010
5:11 pm
By the way, we can all share out theories about torture, miranda rights and such, but answer me this – what does the law say (passed by Congress, signed by W, and continued by BHO) about the path to justice form someone who is suspected/arrested of planning a terroristic act? Not our opinions, but what does the law say?
ty webb
February 22nd, 2010
5:12 pm
Mick,
I have spent the night in jail(my younger, wilder days) and no it wasn’t torture. I hated it enough to never want to be there again, but it wasn’t torture.
Brad Steel
February 22nd, 2010
5:12 pm
I heard they started off by bludgeoning the guy with a series of “your mother’s so fat” jokes.
Heartless brutes.
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
5:14 pm
This is the rule of law, I repeat, and it’s not a Chinese menu…
And what, exactly, is the rule of law on this?
FinnMcCool
February 22nd, 2010
5:16 pm
Your mamma is so poor I saw her kicking a can down the street…she said she was moving
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:16 pm
Privy to what information? That the tactics of blackmail and coercion via threats against family members was employed. Isn’t that clear from the statement above? The rule of LAW, Bosch, the rule of LAW…
md
February 22nd, 2010
5:16 pm
Are we jumping the gun?? Sure we are, none of us knows for certain what the real story is, but we were given the green light to jump the gun by the very author of this blog considering he jumped the gun first.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
February 22nd, 2010
5:16 pm
So if they knew the mother was an illegal, why hadn’t they deported her already?
Rule of the law, eh?
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:17 pm
The law? Coerced confessions obtained under threats of harm to family members are not admissible in court.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:18 pm
Yo mamma’s so fat she got her own zip code…
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:19 pm
ty webb
Lucky you – spent one night in lockup where people were doing time because the holding cell was full. What I saw in that 12 hours (which seemed like 30 days) was in my book – mental torture.
ty webb
February 22nd, 2010
5:19 pm
yo mamma’s so fat her blood type is Ragu…
Del
February 22nd, 2010
5:20 pm
Bosch,
To answer your question if the family member isn’t innocent he or she should be taken into custody. I personally believe that in the case of those who would plan and execute plans to inflict casualties on our innocent citizens aren’t combatants as defined within the Geneva convention. Therefore any means should be utilized to extract intelligence from such individuals.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:22 pm
yo mama’s so fat if you tol her to haul a$$ she’d have to make two trips.
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
5:22 pm
josef,
There’s a legal theory that any coerced confession is a violation of your 5th amendment right that you can’t be compelled to be a witness against yourself.
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
5:24 pm
Coerced confessions obtained under threats of harm to family members are not admissible in court.
And what harm would happen to her at the hands of immigration officials?
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
5:25 pm
Is anybody else out there using a spell checker called After the Deadline? I know I added an “also” between “there’s” and “a” in that note to josef after it had begun to check the comment, but the also didn’t post.
Haywood Jablome
February 22nd, 2010
5:26 pm
you’ Mama so illegal…
she think her name am Miranda Wrights.
md
February 22nd, 2010
5:27 pm
“And what harm would happen to her at the hands of immigration officials?”
Quit thinking short term……..what harm would happen to her after she was deported may be the bigger concern.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:27 pm
” Isn’t that clear from the statement above”
No, it isn’t. You are basing a case on ONE WORD, in ONE REPORTERS story of what happened. You have no way of knowing if that reporter was reporting accurately that Zazi was “warned.” Given the sensational nature of new reporting these days, that could only too easily be a word chose by the reporter to amp up the excitement level…when all HE was told was that Zazi was TOLD that information.
Too many people here, yourself included, seem only to ready to weave conspiracy theories around this one word. To say nothing of condemning the officials involved. All based on ONE WORD, by ONE person.
I still want more information. This CLEARLY isn’t enough.
getalife
February 22nd, 2010
5:29 pm
cheney destroyed the legal system with torture and the DoJ report proved he is a liar again.
Obama covering it up made it worse.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:30 pm
Yo mama so fat Russia can see her from their front porch
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:35 pm
Doggone–
I agree and the same case could be made for torture by waterboarding…we are speaking here in the theoretical and as reported and quoted in this blog for comment…the case is not yet before a judge and jury…
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:35 pm
Riddle me this:
What goes round the house and in the house but never touches the house?
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
5:36 pm
DoggoneGA,
I hope the reporter did get this wrong, but the point is that Jay B chose to excerpt that warning part and declared it not only fine, but presents it as the right and proper way to treat suspects.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
February 22nd, 2010
5:36 pm
Yo momma’s rear end leaves the room fifteen minutes after she does, just sayin…
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:36 pm
Doggone–
And what’s with the “conspiracy theory?” I never said one word about this being any type of “conspiracy.”
Haywood Jablome
February 22nd, 2010
5:37 pm
What goes round the house and in the house but never touches the house?
a streaker with a short penis.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:37 pm
Mick
What?
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:38 pm
the sun
Scooter
February 22nd, 2010
5:39 pm
Your mamma is fat that if you tell her to blow out the candles on her birthday cake then turn around and make a wish you will have to add another candle because it takes her a whole year to turn all the way around.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:39 pm
RW–
@ 5:36
My point. He could have questioned that but he chose not to. I’m still waiting to hear from him on this, but he is probably enjoying the fireworks.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:41 pm
yo mama so ugly she make a freight train take a dirt road…
Popeye
February 22nd, 2010
5:42 pm
Heywood Jablome down. Toot toot. I yam what I yam.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:43 pm
“I agree and the same case could be made for torture by waterboarding”
Huh? How does inventing conspiracies about “torture” apply to waterboarding? Or do you mean the threat of waterboarding? I just have not yet seen any justification in what Jay posted to conclude that Zazi was threatened in any way, and I see no clear justification for assuming that the word “warned” is accurate, or even if it is that it constitutes any kind of threat.
“Immigration issues” could mean anything from an expired visa to unpaid parking tickets to threatening officials because her son is in jail. We don’t know, and neither Jay nor the piece he quoted says anything more.
There IS, however, a fine line between a direct threat and an implied threat. For instance, if a suspect is being questioned, and in the background – but not directly addressed to him – some officials are discussing torture, then it’s probably no unreasonable of the suspect to come to the conclusion that he is being threatened. But I don’t think that would hold up in court, but it’s iffy.
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
5:43 pm
…what harm would happen to her after she was deported may be the bigger concern.
So the U.S. government is responsible for the well being of every illegal after they are deported?
Pooter
February 22nd, 2010
5:43 pm
Scooter and I could go places together.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:45 pm
“but presents it as the right and proper way to treat suspects.”
I don’t agree. He presents as reported, with no comment on that sentence either way. It is the WHOLE story that illustrates that it’s not necessary to immediately resort to torture to get information from suspects.
I would have like to see a link to the story, and I would like some kind of comfirmation from other reporting organizations before I condemn those authorities on one word, in one sentence, in one story.
Tank
February 22nd, 2010
5:45 pm
He did it for the media attention. Every sleazebag lawyer trying to get his name in the lights will do evertyhing to obtain “justice” for this “criminal”. Ultimately, this legal team and our media will portray him as the victim.
jokerman
February 22nd, 2010
5:45 pm
Doggone–
And what’s with the “conspiracy theory?” I never said one word about this being any type of “conspiracy.”
kinda like you of accusing me , and your quote “Some of your comments are among the most biased, prejudiced and bigoted ofhere against certain groups you somehow feel you are superior too.”
So how does it feel Josef to be sharp shooted? Poor little WUSSY!
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:46 pm
“So the U.S. government is responsible for the well being of every illegal after they are deported?”
Not every one, but certainly those who have petitioned for asylum based on fear of persecution once they are returned home…
md
February 22nd, 2010
5:47 pm
“So the U.S. government is responsible for the well being of every illegal after they are deported?”
You’re just being silly now.
jokerman
February 22nd, 2010
5:48 pm
Proof Josef, where’s the beef? Accused me of something you made up in your deranged little mind, but could never proffer any proof…..Lying little ………………….
Mick
February 22nd, 2010
5:48 pm
Have a good night all-
Here’s one more: The more you take, the more you leave behind. What are they
footsteps
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:49 pm
Josef – “I never said one word about this being any type of “conspiracy.” ”
you said: “blackmail and threats against family members”
Where do you get either idea, from Jay’s story, that anyone was blackmailed, or Zazi’s family members threatened? The story makes no mention of either one.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:50 pm
Doggone–
How does that constitute “conspiracy?”
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:50 pm
“kinda like you of accusing me , and your quote ”
Hate to tell you this, but that quote you repeated was not by me. I’ve never said anything even remotely like that. Better check your links again.
md
February 22nd, 2010
5:51 pm
“He presents as reported, with no comment on that sentence either way. It is the WHOLE story that illustrates that it’s not necessary to immediately resort to torture to get information from suspects.”
Wrong, Jay comments on what he presented as written, and claims no torture.
Scooter
February 22nd, 2010
5:51 pm
Pooter
February 22nd, 2010
5:43 pm
jokerman
February 22nd, 2010
5:52 pm
Doggone….Haven’t you figured it out. Josef has a tendancy to make things up as he goes along.
It tends to make him feel like he wins an arguement which he has lost.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:52 pm
“How does that constitute “conspiracy?””
So, you don’t think you are weaving conspiracy theories around a story – when there is nothing in that story to indicate any sort of blackmail or threats to family members? Sorry, but reads like theories of conspiracy to me.
jokerman
February 22nd, 2010
5:53 pm
Doggone…Sorry I was not attributing that quote to you it was meant for Josef …
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:53 pm
md
I had not made that connection, but, yes, you’re right on that…
Kamchak
February 22nd, 2010
5:54 pm
Not every one, but certainly those who have petitioned for asylum based on fear of persecution once they are returned home…
And his mother was one of those?
You’re just being silly now.
You were the who said, “Quit thinking short term……..what harm would happen to her after she was deported may be the bigger concern.”
Who then has the responsibility for “the bigger concern?”
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:56 pm
I’m still not seeing any other reports on this. Everyone that I’ve seen so far quotes, word for word, the story above. I went through 3 pages of results on Google and every one of them has the exact same quote.
I still suspend judgement until we get more details on this “warning”
RW-(the original)
February 22nd, 2010
5:56 pm
I don’t agree
There’s a shocker /sarc
who is never waterboarded or tortured, yet who confesses and cooperates–Jay B
Zazi decided to offer the information after being warned that his mother could face criminal immigration charge–AP
Pretty cut and dried as to where Jay B stands on this one to me.
DoggoneGA
February 22nd, 2010
5:57 pm
“Jay comments on what he presented as written, and claims no torture.”
So, in this story, how do you draw the conclusion that torture occured?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
February 22nd, 2010
5:57 pm
I wonder how many death sentences civilian juries have dealt to terrorists? No, I really don’t – I know. It is conventional leftism that “we don’t kill killers,” and the scale interests of Islamists don’t affect the leftist mindset. The conservative view is that foreign terrorists don’t deserve the protections found in US juries, and that they do deserve military justice, in whatever form that takes. Just a difference in perspective. Leftists are soft on terrorists, conservatives think the terrorists ought to die.
On that line, however, I will praise President Obama for using predator drones for targeted assassinations, even without benefit of jury adjudication.
josef nix
February 22nd, 2010
5:58 pm
Doggone–
I’m sorry, but I don’t see the connection. To threaten, or in this case “warn” a suspect that if he does not cooperate then harm will come to his family member(s) is coercion and blackmail…a consipiracy would entail accusing two or more persons as being complicent in so doing, and that has not been contended. My point is that, if, and I stress IF, this did indeed take place, and the wording of the quote and Jay’s posting of it as such, reports it as having taken place. No names, no conspiracy…
md
February 22nd, 2010
6:00 pm
“Coerced confessions obtained under threats of harm to family members are not admissible in court.
And what harm would happen to her at the hands of immigration officials?”
Again, you are being silly here or you are really not getting it. The “harm” would come after deportation, not during.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2010
6:01 pm
Okay, again everyone is getting all emotional over something we don’t even know – this guy has plead guilty to plotting to blow up lots of mothers, fathers, brothers, sister, daughters, and sons – and maybe even a few grandmas.