Georgia, Oregon become economic test case
Ten years from now, it’ll be fascinating to look back and see who turned out to be right.
Across the country, falling tax revenues are forcing deep cuts in state budgets. Under Gov. Sonny Perdue’s proposed budget here in Georgia, for example, “per student state spending on k-12 education and the university system will fall to their lowest levels in a decade” after inflation, the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute reports.
Some states have tried to soften such blows with strategic tax increases that will raise a total of $24 billion in new revenue, according to the National Governors Association. But at a press conference Thursday, Georgia legislative leaders announced plans to slash rather than raise state revenue by cutting business fees and taxes and the state capital gains tax.
Asked about the impact on an already ravaged state treasury, state Rep. Tom Graves turned the question around: “We don’t see this as a cost to the state, we see this as a savings to the taxpayer.”
In Oregon, on the other hand, leaders are taking the exact opposite approach. They’ve already cut spending significantly, but this week, Oregon voters easily approved ballot measures that will increase taxes on business and on households with incomes higher than $250,000. The new revenue will close the remaining budget gap of $727 million and fend off further cuts in education and other public services.
That sets up an interesting test case. While Oregon raises taxes to preserve its public infrastructure and services, Georgia believes that it can stimulate a boom by offering investors a cheaper business environment. “We’re going to be the economic beacon and leader for the rest of the country” in recovering from this recession, Graves confidently predicted.
Today, median household incomes in Georgia ($50,861) and Oregon ($50,169) are quite similar. They start from a similar base on taxes as well, since Oregon voters have a tradition of fiscal conservatism equal to that of Georgia. In 2005, Oregon ranked 41st in per capita state taxes ($1,791) while Georgia ranked 42nd ($1,726), according to the Census Bureau. So it will be interesting to see where they stand in a decade.
Given Georgia’s already low tax structure and the condition of the national economy, I personally have a hard time believing that state taxes have been a significant hurdle to investment here. Dropping from 42nd to 44th or 45th in the tax rankings doesn’t seem like it will accomplish much except force more furloughs of teachers, but I guess we’ll wait and see.
This won’t be the first time that Georgia and Oregon have set themselves up as test cases. Beginning 15 to 20 years ago, the two states also took starkly divergent approaches to growth in their major urban areas.
Under Oregon law, the three-county Portland metro area was given the power to tax itself as a region for transportation. It has used that authority to commit to mass transit, investing in light rail, trolley lines and more recently commuter rail. That’s a stark contrast to the Georgia strategy, which has relied almost exclusively on highways and denied metro Atlanta the right to act as a region.
Wendell Cox, a highway advocate and a favorite transportation consultant for Georgia conservatives, argued in the Atlanta Constitution back in 1999 that the Georgia model would prevail. In fact, he predicted, “traffic congestion in Portland is likely to be worse than it is in Los Angeles by 2015.”
Well, it’s not 2015 yet. But when Cox wrote those words, Portland was 18th worst in the country in rush-hour delays per traveler; by 2007, it improved to 34th. Meanwhile, Los Angeles stayed at number one and Atlanta stayed at number three.
In the latest rankings, Portland has also improved significantly in the time-travel index, considered a standard measure of congestion. Again, Los Angeles and Atlanta didn’t budge.
Those trends have consequences on the quality of life a region can offer, a factor that in the modern world often has more impact on growth than low taxes. Quality of life has an especially strong appeal to the young college-educated people that high-paying employers need to prosper and innovate.
From 1995-2000, according to the Census Bureau, Atlanta was the fourth most attractive destination for that desired demographic. Portland was fifth.
Late last year, the Wall Street Journal took an updated look at what it called “the next hot youth magnets.” Portland was fourth; Atlanta didn’t make the list, and was mentioned only as another formerly ascendant Sun Belt city now in eclipse.
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466 comments Add your comment
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
8:02 am
Perhaps if tax money werent wasted and unaccounted for, some would accept tax increases with a little less apprehension. Instead of govt finding the thiefs and stopping them they just increase taxes.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
8:02 am
If you’re running low on revenues and you really need them to function, you raise taxes?
If your urban areas are being choked by auto congestion, you build mass transit infrastructure to give commuters some alternatives?
Crazy stuff!
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
8:02 am
Oregon seems to have some intelligent leadership.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
8:02 am
When the successful productive people flee from Oregon’s high tax rates the traffic conditions will get better, duh, just sayin….
Southern Comfort
January 29th, 2010
8:02 am
G’morning all.
This is one column that needs to be saved/archived or whatever so we can look back and see the differences. The only problem is that the side that doesn’t show positive gain will spin the results in a manner to try to say that their method could have worked. We’ve already seen the difference in traffic congestion as Jay pointed out. Maybe the elected officials of Georgia asked for the best two out of three to try to prevail at something?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:07 am
dB – 8:02 – in the right-wing “up is the new down” world, yes … it is crazy talk.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
8:09 am
How long will it take to find out who’s right? One year? Two? And will the state whose record fails change course?
We’ve got a guy running for reelection as governor here who likes to brag how much he’s cut taxes. Problem is, those ‘cuts’ never materialized into amounts nearly what he promised. Property tax savings averaging $2k a year come readily to mind. Savings? Not even close. Meanwhile, some school districts are out of money for substitute teachers. What happens when a teacher’s sick in an elementary school? The kids get farmed out to the other classes.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
TnGelding
January 29th, 2010
8:09 am
Oregon almost got it right. They should have reaised taxes modestly on everyone, and cut some spending. But they march to their own drummer, i.e. doctor assisted suicide. They almost got that right, too.
Consumers pay the taxes any way. Why not just take all state and federal taxes off of businesses that act as tax collectors?
joe matarotz
January 29th, 2010
8:18 am
Ten years from now, I think the Georgia economy will be shown to have been a perfect test case for Ty-D-Bol.
In the meantime, have any Libs heard anything on the Gitmo closing? I was just wondering how that campaign promise was working out.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
8:20 am
In a nut’s shell, Jay, it all boils down to how one measures success and Georgia’s legislative body most certainly has a different idea than that of Oregon’s. I’d say that a more direct, Claxton-to-Claxton, comparison might be made between Georgia and South Carolina when it comes to politics and such.
Georgia’s goals regarding growth are actually quite simple. First, regarding transportation, Georgia has already implemented its four-wheel-drive strategy — build lots of off-road KIAs so’s you can just take off in whatever direction that suits you best. We don’t need no steenking roads. Job stability is thus guaranteed for most Georgians with this one simple strategy. After all, there will be markets for all sorts of off-road related goods and services ranging from wenches for the mud bogging events to chainsaw blade sharpening stands for the true trailblazers. Further, given the known reliability of the KIA, even before bringing it to Georgia’s over-educated workforce for assembly, there’s bound to be a huge production demand. Georgia will no doubt once again dominate the southeast in junkyards, er um, I mean, metal reclamation and re-cycling centers. Life is gooder and getting bestest by the minute in Georgia. Throw in a mess of fried catfish and hushpuppies and what else could a true southerner be in want of.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
8:20 am
Show of hands–who’s actually set foot in Portland and ridden their mass transit system? Maybe all the way out to the ‘burbs? At least once, in the past few years, at least?
(ok, I’ll go first. I have.)
Bob
January 29th, 2010
8:21 am
Raise taxes on the rich ? Why didn’t someone think of that before, no more poverty, no more people in need. We should just decide what people need to live off of and those that have extra can just give it to those that are not as lucky. You would never get such an easy solution from Repubs.
Scooter
January 29th, 2010
8:21 am
Why not just take all state and federal taxes off of businesses that act as tax collectors?
TnG, I don’t quite understand what you are getting at here. Would you mind explaining a little further?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:23 am
btw … just because the gubberner says he’s not raising taxes doesn’t mean he’s not going to raise revenue elsewhere … watch out for fee increases – all license costs will increase, tags, costs for any documents you need from the State …
also, all he’s doing is turning to localities to inflict the pain to pay for schools … and they will because they’ll have no other choice …
oh, yeah … that’s “leadership”
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
8:26 am
Joe @ 8.18, there are any number of places you can go to find lefties complaining about the Obama administration’s policies on enemy combatants. I’d suggest download either of the most recent podcasts here if you want a literal earful.
Meanwhile, we’re talking about GA and OR, here. Setting up an off-topic distraction a mere dozen posts into a new thread is not cool.
AmVet
January 29th, 2010
8:26 am
Oregon is progressive.
Georgia is regressive.
Nuff said…
david wayne osedach
January 29th, 2010
8:31 am
You can’t cut education and come out winning. The students and their education is our future.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:32 am
joe – 8:18 – since you asked (but seem to be incapable of looking things up for yourself)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803905.html
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
8:33 am
Let’s see, the entire state of Oregon has fewer people than the Atlanta metropolitan area, and you’re impressed that their traffic isn’t as bad as ours. Hmmmm.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
8:34 am
Tax cuts always sound good but that actually translates to service cuts. Education always seems to be the first on the chopping block. We need to go back to a pre 1980 mentality about taxes.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:34 am
oh, and whiner … SUCK ON THIS:
The economy in the U.S. expanded in the fourth quarter at the fastest pace in six years as factories cranked up assembly lines to prevent inventories from plunging.
The 5.7 percent increase in gross domestic product, which exceeded the median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News, marked the best performance since the third quarter of 2003, figures from the Commerce Department showed today in Washington. A smaller decrease in stockpiles contributed 3.4 percentage points to GDP, the most in two decades.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aAWWD1MDQQ8g
md
January 29th, 2010
8:35 am
“Why not just take all state and federal taxes off of businesses that act as tax collectors?
TnG, I don’t quite understand what you are getting at here. Would you mind explaining a little further?”
He’s talking about the “fairtax” system that is already in place (has been for a long time) but is hidden to the point people refuse to see it.
Brad Steel
January 29th, 2010
8:36 am
The subtext of the marketing message for the tax cut is brilliant:
Bring your business to Georgia and hire our low-cost half-wits!!!
Davo
January 29th, 2010
8:38 am
If Clark Howard thinks it’s a bad idea; then it’s a bad idea.
http://clarkhoward.com/liveweb/shownotes/2010/01/28/17639/
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:39 am
Davo – I love me some Clark … has he recovered from his cancer?
Jay
January 29th, 2010
8:39 am
Brad, I had a disturbing conversation a few years ago with a high-tech exec here in town. I asked him how many of his top people were actually Georgians, as in people who went to high school and college here.
He stopped and thought a minute.
“None.”
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
8:40 am
“Oregon is progressive.”
In other words progressives leap before they look.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
8:42 am
USinUK, suck on this:
“Still, the growth at the end of last year was primarily fueled by companies refilling depleted stockpiles, a trend that will soon fade.”
jt
January 29th, 2010
8:44 am
Life is gooder and getting bestest by the minute in Georgia. Throw in a mess of fried catfish and hushpuppies and what else could a true southerner be in want of.?
Less yanks.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
8:46 am
The brilliant Georgia legislature…
They always get the job done. Is sweet tea still the official state beverage?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:46 am
Bubba –
sorry to burst your weeeeeeeeeeee little bubble, but consumer spending was up even without government incentives, business investment was up, production was up, net exports were also up – with non-government spending being the primary drivers of growth. THAT’s something to build on.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
8:46 am
Seems like georgia is going the way of florida. You all have probably noticed a sizable exodus of people from florida into your state. Repubs have controlled the executive and legislative branches since jeb was elected in 98 and it has been downhill since. Tax cutting and starve the beast philosophy has put us in a hole and no politician has the courage to reverse course. Damn right charlie crist accepted the stimulus with open arms because without it we have a 2 billion hole which only really delays the day of reckoning.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
8:48 am
“Tax cuts always sound good but that actually translates to service cuts. Education always seems to be the first on the chopping block. We need to go back to a pre 1980 mentality about taxes.”
Are we 49th or 50th now? It seems to go back and forth.
md
January 29th, 2010
8:49 am
“The economy in the U.S. expanded in the fourth quarter at the fastest pace in six years as factories cranked up assembly lines to prevent inventories from plunging.”
Yea, its the “slinky” or “atl traffic” effect. It starts and stops for the same reason. When production is shut down to a trickle, the numbers will always look gaudy when its cranked back up – its the nature of the beast. Lets look at the numbers for the next few quarters and then take the average, we’ll get a better picture.
Curious Observer
January 29th, 2010
8:51 am
So a headline in yesterday’s AJC announces that Georgia has spent almost half a billion dollars of stimulus money in the past three months on 20,000 jobs (you know, that wasteful stimulus that has never created any jobs.) Legislators as well as teachers and state employees are taking unpaid leave days. The halfwits in the legislature are announcing plans to cut revenue further through more tax cuts.
And people really think there’s going to be competition with Oregon as to which state is going to come out ahead?
El Jefe
January 29th, 2010
8:52 am
Hmm, heap more taxes of people who are successful. Do good, get taxed more than your fair share.
I would suggest that instead of upping the amount per student, how about outsourcing education to the private sector, not at the state level, but the local level..
Business does this all the time with great results.
md
January 29th, 2010
8:52 am
Mick,
I recently did a comparison of Ga/Fl, and believe it or not, very comparable, they just take the money in different ways. What floridians save in income tax is paid in property/gas tax and reverse for Ga.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
8:52 am
Instead of waiting for Sonny to offer a tax increase why dont you progressives pick your favorite charity, the govt, and make voluntary donations? You, who all seem so hell-bent on giving away your hard earned / charity dollars, should step up to the plate. Lead by example.
Prompting from Sonny or Obama would then be a moot point.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
8:53 am
Oh, really?
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) – Coming out of the worst recession in generations, the U.S. economy grew at the fastest pace in six years during the fourth quarter of 2009, even as consumer spending and business investment remained tepid, according to data released Friday by the Commerce Department.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:53 am
md – I agree with your 8:49 – but the primary thing to look at is the consumer element (right around 70% of GDP) vs. the government element – as long as consumers are driving the train, you’re building sustainable growth. government spending primes the pump and gets the engine going, but consumer spending and business investment are key (and a nice, weak dollar helps stimulate those exports)
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
8:56 am
He’s talking about the “fairtax” system that is already in place (has been for a long time) but is hidden to the point people refuse to see it.
Well, someone owes me a whole lot of back prebate checks then.
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
8:56 am
USinUK
US is in UK and must not know that the economy isn’t doing very well here in the states.Come home and tell the 10+percent of unemployed how great things are.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
8:56 am
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
8:52 am
WELL?!! Anyone? Im sure the govt will accept your check, money order or cash!
You Pro-Tax progesssives should be clamoring over one another to be the first in line!
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:57 am
Bubba – consumer growth was 2% WITHOUT any kind of stimulus – that’s actually very impressive. business investment was actually negative contributor to GDP from Q307-Q309 … so, they may call it “tepid” – I call it rising from the effing DEAD.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
8:57 am
“And people really think there’s going to be competition with Oregon as to which state is going to come out ahead?”
No competition whatsoever. Easy win for Oregon.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
8:57 am
BoB – that’s right … keep singing those dirges … some fool out there might believe you – but the facts don’t support you.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
8:59 am
USinUK, 8:57
Please do not mention the word “facts”. Thank you.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:00 am
Jenifer – 8:59 – hope springs eternal
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
9:00 am
Georgia’s solutions to its 10.3% unemployment rate — state income tax cuts, capital gains tax cuts, a re-vamping of the child labor laws… what else could one possibly need.
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:02 am
USinUK
You can run but you can’t hide 10+percent unemployment is a fact whether you like it or not.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
9:02 am
“You can’t cut education and come out winning. The students and their education is our future”
They certainly is
md
January 29th, 2010
9:03 am
“as long as consumers are driving the train, you’re building sustainable growth”
Yes, but 4th quarter is usually a better consumer quarter because of the holidays, winter – not so much. Consumers tend to hibernate in the 1st quarter as they overspent for the holidays.
El Jefe
January 29th, 2010
9:03 am
Bubba,
Get I wonder why business investment remained tepid. Maybe there is great uncertainty about the future tax situation? Maybe it is the extra tax on banking that drives people to a bunker mentality.
And where are the jobs? GDP is up, without hiring. Wow!
Seems to this amateur that excess inventory is being reduced, maybe, to give the administration some credit, some cut hours are being restored.
We are still in a heap of dog s*** due to a very scattered messages from DC. DC, the great vacuum inside the beltway.
Healthcare – yes or no
Cap and Tax – yes or no
Bush tax cut retiring – definitely yes
double exports over the next 5 years? Pray tell us how the Government can do this?
Create Jobs? make work or real careers?
Just no real answers from the fools on the hill.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:03 am
BoB -
and, now, I’m going to sing a song called “Unemployment is a Lagging Indicator and usually takes 2 years to fall back to average after the recovery is underway”
feel free to sing along if you know the words …
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
9:03 am
to offer a tax increase why dont you progressives pick your favorite charity, the govt, and make voluntary donations?
I’ve always been more than happy to pay higher taxes to pay for those things I want. In my experience, most progressives are.
And if it’s up for referendum again, I’ll gladly vote “yes” for a sales tax to finance commuter rail into Gwinnett, even though it’s a lame way to do it.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
9:04 am
Consumers tend to hibernate in the 1st quarter as they overspent for the holidays.
Call it a hunch but I don’t think the consumer overspent this past holiday season.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
9:04 am
Maybe there is great uncertainty about the future tax situation?
well yeah, if a bunch of conservative dickheads (from both parties) hadn’t obstructed health care reform and allowed it to pass, a lot of that uncertainty would have gone away.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:05 am
md – 9:03 – the facts remain: growth exceeded all but one of the forecast outliers – and even they are now saying they think 1H10 growth is going to be greater than expected and 3% for all of 2010 (in other words, back to average growth)
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
9:06 am
Just no real answers from the fools on the hill.
You really need to quit relying on government for so much.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:06 am
Hmmm…still no takers from our resident Pro-Tax Progressives?
Typical…all flash no substance.
Tax target
January 29th, 2010
9:07 am
“…Oregon voters easily approved ballot measures that will increase taxes on business and on households with incomes higher than $250,000…”.
Perhaps someone (Jay?) can enlighten me why our household which makes $250,000 or more continues to be penalized (and tax targeted) for our success and not eligible for most/every “stimulus/recovery” program at the Federal or State level??? Conversely, why does failure continued to be rewarded????
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
9:07 am
“You can’t cut education and come out winning. The students and their education is our future”
They certainly is”
Is our children learning?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:07 am
“Maybe it is the extra tax on banking that drives people to a bunker mentality.”
wow. talk about lacking even a fundamental understanding of the space-time continuum.
GDP announced today was for 1 October 2009 – 31 December 2009. Obama announced his bank fees last week. in January. AFTER the quarter ended.
nice try, but MAN, that was lame.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
9:10 am
USinUK,
“and, now, I’m going to sing a song called “Unemployment is a Lagging Indicator and usually takes 2 years to fall back to average after the recovery is underway’”
Yeah but try to teach that to the masses with our educational system…
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:10 am
Well thanks for you contribution sfd.
However, with our economy in a shambles it seems our Pro-Tax Progressives/Democrats would be the first to step up and offer to the govt a voluntary donation.
We hear so much about the Dems passion, compassion and how the Reps are selfish a-holes it just seems the tax cofers should be overflowing with “dollars of concern and assistance” from the left.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
9:11 am
Typical…all flash no substance.
We know better than to strike a match around a methane source.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 29th, 2010
9:11 am
Well, seems to me all GA needs is for more of these twits making $30,000 a year to build and buy $1 million McMansions so us rednecks can go back to work. They ought to be able to do it, what with the capital gains tax cuts they’re talking about down at the statehouse.
Have a good day everybody.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
9:11 am
md
All I know is that for the past decade the migration out of florida has been mostly to georgia. I really hate to get into this ideological warfare but when our state was in democratic hands, things were fine. Then the tax cutters came to power and everything went to hell. I dislike taxes as much as anyone else but I like the services they support. There’s waste in every facet of our lives including our own personal spending. I’ll gladly pitch in another $100 a year to maintain or increase services for the common good.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:12 am
Whacks -
first of all, I keep reading your name as Whacks Elephant … and it makes me laugh.
secondly, I wish – OH, how I wish – that we could post graphs on this thing … even people who don’t understand basic theory can SEE patterns.
El Jefe
January 29th, 2010
9:12 am
TaxPayer,
Not answers, just some direction. Will business be saddled with high costs for healthcare, energy or raw product?
The tax code is so bizarre that any changes will have a ripple effect on everything.
Increased costs and reduced amount of expense deductions just seem counter productive.
Hire more people, but it will cost you an arm and leg if health care is passed.
Just a direction, that is all – business will adapt or close.
fred smith
January 29th, 2010
9:12 am
I’ve been noticing a lot of conspiracy theories lately (some rather well supported by data). Maybe that’s what’s going on here. We the people are stupid enough to elect con artists and ne’erdowells who are tools or dupes of the special interests of other states. Their sole objective is to ruin the economic engine of Georgia so that the other states reap the spoils. The data are absolutely clear that feeding the fat cats (cutting taxes for the rich) does NOT create jobs; it only makes the fat cats richer; they keep it for themselves. It didn’t work under Reagan, it didn’t work under dimwit W, it hasn’t worked here. As Walt Kelly once had Pogo say: “We have met the enemy, and they are us.”
md
January 29th, 2010
9:13 am
“Call it a hunch but I don’t think the consumer overspent this past holiday season.”
Maybe not to the degree as prior years, but there are always those that spend a little more than they wanted, and then adjust for it after the fact (1st quarter). As long as folks have credit cards, many will use them unwisely (even I fall into this category, and then readjust my budget, I doubt highly that I am the only one).
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:16 am
Amvet, USK, Jen, others??? No comment?
Just one more inquiry…when might the govt, State – Fed – Local, expect your “contribution”?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:16 am
md – actually, the interesting thing is that:
1) the savings rate rose to nearly 7% and has now fallen back to around 4.5% and seems to be remaining steady,
2) consumers now see that unemployment isn’t growing, but is now stabilizing and, in fact, they’re starting to see hiring taking place (survey released this week showed that more firms plan to hire in the next 6 months than plan to layoff); compounded with
3) “frugality fatigue”. consumers have had a bunker mentality (to hijack El Jefe’s phrase) for a year and a half, now. they’ve saved. they’ve cut back on all non-essential items. they’ve “staycationed”. and, now, they’re feeling a little more confident, they’re ready to loosen the purse strings.
unlike growth in the past, this won’t be fueled by leverage, which is why overall growth will be more subdued over the next few years. people WON’T be using the plastic and their houses like ATMs. however, the growth will be built on a more solid foundation.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
9:18 am
“first of all, I keep reading your name as Whacks Elephant … and it makes me laugh.”
I’d have to be fair and make it Whacks Elephant and Donkey…I am an equal opportunity offender!
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:18 am
“The tax code is so bizarre that any changes will have a ripple effect on everything.”
Forget the tax code. We dont need no “stinkin tax code”. Our Pro-tax Progressives will be mailing in their contributions any day now…correct??
Uh…correct?
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
9:19 am
“Is our children learning?”
I think they are, but it’s what they are being taught (and by whom) that seems to be the problem
md
January 29th, 2010
9:19 am
“obstructed health care reform and allowed it to pass, a lot of that uncertainty would have gone away.”
Doubt that would have changed anything. Businesses would still have the uncertainty toward a program that will not take effect for several years, and many quite possibly would stand pat.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:20 am
outhouse – let us know when you have something of substance to contribute to the conversation …
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:20 am
Tax target
January 29th, 2010
9:07 am
Like USK stated earlier. Up is down and down is uP!
Besides you worked too hard and have to many niceties. Cant you share and quit being so selfish. Obama just wants to spread it around.
Jay
January 29th, 2010
9:20 am
It was actually 1.2 trillion, Ramble. He underestimated if anything, On the day he took office, the CBO was projecting that the fiscal 2009 deficit — a fiscal year already underway, with the budget passed in ‘08 — would be $1.2 trillion.
Those are the facts.
Haywood Jablome
January 29th, 2010
9:20 am
You really need to quit relying on government for so much.
Good idea. I’m gonna start defending the country and building roads myself. After that, I’m gonna set up a charity-funded court system that will be staffed by people with a rock solid Georgia edjumacation – preferably with extensive studies in Creationism from Cobb County schools.
We need more solutions like mine solved by the private section. And more good ideas from the self-labeled “TaxPayer” (he’s unlike the rest of us – we don’t pay taxes)
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:21 am
Those evil rich people how dare they get rich.Tax them and give me healthcare.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:21 am
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:20 am
Your reply is typical…from a Pro-Tax Progressive, that is. So we might assume you will not be making a contribution to your favorite charity, the govt?
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
9:23 am
Jay, where are you getting your traffic rankings? This study would seem to contradict what you are saying. Traffic rankings are like … well, you know the rest.
http://www.sustainablebusinessoregon.com/articles/2010/01/portlands_traffic_is_16th_worst.html?q=portland%20traffic%20congestion
Hef
January 29th, 2010
9:23 am
Rewarding productivity & success with higher taxation,wow I think I’ll move my business to Oregon!!!!
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
9:24 am
“even people who don’t understand basic theory can SEE patterns”
Well, some can…but you’ll have to excuse those people who are shown a graph of global temperature trend going UP over the last few decades, but who see them are going DOWN.
md
January 29th, 2010
9:25 am
Mick,
Look around the country, all states are hurting. The biggest blue state is in the most trouble (CA). From this article, it is also clear that GA (red state) and OR (blue state) share the same problem.
FL’s biggest problem is insurance, that is the engine driving folks out. Insurance is a minimum of 4x greater in FL than GA. Its pretty stupid too, but one can live on opposite banks of the St Marys river and the insurance is quadrupled.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:25 am
Outhouse – and your reply is typical … for a 7th grader.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:26 am
If our Pro-tax Progressives/Dimocrats and intellectuals would just lead by example, ya know voluntarilycontribute to the govt tax fund, we backwoods stupid Republicans might be convinced to follow suit.
No need waiting around in typical fashion for the govt to take the lead or give a hand-out. Oh no…where is the hand up? Where are the voluntary tax dollars for the teachers, mass transit, save the planet fund, THE CHILDREN for Gods sake what about the children, the climate, the homeless…and…and…and…
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
9:27 am
I for one would love to see Georgia do more to embrace public transit. I’d favor special sales tax for it too. But they have to do it right. MARTA costs too much per mile. Light rail is the way to go…
But the Lovejoy line? come on. Put the line somewhere people will use it. Marietta to downtown, Lawrenceville to downtown. I am a personal fan of the Brain Train idea, which links UGA to Tech and all the schools in between…
But the best we have gotten so far? Start charging tolls for single drivers in the I-85 HOV lanes! Puh-lease!
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:28 am
Doggone – 9:24 – butbutbut … last month was COLD, doncha know …
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
9:29 am
My Engrish is breaking out!
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:30 am
You mean, USK, you would rather see a starving child remain hungry than contribute an extra measely $5.00, on a weekly basis? That amounts only to $260 annually.
Isnt that $260 worth filling that childs belly, saving the planet, stopping second-hand smoke, preventing too much salt in foods etc?
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:30 am
Outhouse Gocart
Like your 9:21 post You got him good . LOL
Bob
January 29th, 2010
9:33 am
Bradsteel, it worked for NCR. They moved good paying jobs here from a withering state, Ohio.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:33 am
BoB and Outhouse … sitting in a tree …
Mick
January 29th, 2010
9:35 am
**FL’s biggest problem is insurance**
You are somewhat correct. You can buy state insurance, (citizens) take a higher deductable and get a mitagation inspection to off set cost. Right know like everywhere else there is not much construction going on. Some more wicked winters and more boomers retiring should take care of excess inventory and maybe we’ll be back on track. In the mean time, I think the migration to georgia is waning. Our deficits can easily be solved by reversing some of the tax cuts enacted earlier in the decade.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:35 am
(oh, and by the way, BoB, since you seem to be a bit new here, I’m a giiiirrrrrrrrl)
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
9:36 am
Doggone,
“Well, some can…but you’ll have to excuse those people who are shown a graph of global temperature trend going UP over the last few decades, but who see them are going DOWN.”
Get back to me when you have expanded that from a few decades to a few millenia, and then tell me your conclusions…
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:37 am
BoB…Just trying to find a solution to the problem. Our president did make mention of he had heard no better ideas for HCare the other night. Our blog Pro-Tax Progressives are constantly spouting about the dumb reps have no ideas and “The Party of No”, selfishness etc.
Would seem the “Party of Yes” would be happy to contribute!!? After all “we are all the same, all in this together” and all those other Pro-Tax Progressive mantras…
TnGelding
January 29th, 2010
9:37 am
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:02 am
That 10% must have been the dead wood. Hats off to the productivity of the remaining workforce.
md
January 29th, 2010
9:38 am
” people who are shown a graph of global temperature”
I’m still waiting for the big picture graph, the one that shows the entire 4.5 billion years of earth’s history, and all I keep getting is a little picture graph showing less than 1%.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
9:42 am
For the whole of 2009, the economy contracted 2.4 percent, the biggest decline since 1946, the first year after the end of World War II.
Just sayin….
Excluding food and energy prices, the price index for gross domestic purchases increased 1.2 percent in the fourth quarter, compared with an increase of 0.3 percent in the third.
So either people ate a lot more in the last few months or they spent more on energy<—–duh.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:42 am
Doggone – re: md’s and whack’s posts – they’d, of course, compare it to the original temperature of the earth as it formed and justify to you that the earth is actually cooling from when it was molten lava …
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:42 am
USinUK
My apologies girrrrl.
TnGelding
January 29th, 2010
9:43 am
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:35 am
You go girl! Hope everything is okay in your world.
Love that GDP number. Obama, the miracle worker! Makes you wonder how much the reported 16% unemployed were contributing. And the GOP wanted to get rid of Ben?
“The confirmation vote was preceded by a critical preliminary ballot to block a filibuster by opponents. He needed 60 votes rather than a simple majority and got 77, to 23 against. The closest previous final confirmation vote for a Fed chairman was 84-16 for Paul Volcker’s second term in 1983 following another severe recession.”
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:43 am
whiner – “So either people ate a lot more in the last few months or they spent more on energy”
um. do you not understand the word “exclude”?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:44 am
BoB – no probs (just thought you’d want to know)
md
January 29th, 2010
9:44 am
usinuk,
For a numbers person, you surprise me that you would hang your hat on data less than 1%.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
9:47 am
Economy Soars 5.7 Percent, Fastest In 6 Years
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100129/bs_nm/us_usa_economy
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:47 am
md – sorry – just to be clear – what are you referring to in your 9:44?
Bob
January 29th, 2010
9:48 am
Maybe this is why some are not believing that temps are going up.
http://www.bobbyshred.com/fools/falsetemps.html
TnGelding
January 29th, 2010
9:49 am
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
9:42 am
That was the “price index.”
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
9:50 am
USinUk…yes, I know. Sad, isn’t it?
md
January 29th, 2010
9:51 am
“Doggone – re: md’s and whack’s posts – they’d, of course, compare it to the original temperature of the earth as it formed and justify to you that the earth is actually cooling from when it was molten lava …”
Snarky….excellent debating strategy. Wish you well with that one.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
9:51 am
Not to belabor this, but the AJC, in a story by Marcus Garner, reported Jan. 20 that Atlanta’s traffic was ranked 22nd worst in the nation, not third as reported by Bookman. The same study ranked Portland at 16th worst.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:52 am
TnG – hey, just because people are unemployed doesn’t mean that they aren’t eating and making other purchases (just a lot less) – they contribute to GDP, as well.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:53 am
md – YOU were the one who said that you wanted to see data for the last 4.5 billion years of the world’s history and you’re calling ME snarky???
da noive.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
9:54 am
If just 1 million people from the GA Party of “Yes we can” would contribute a mere one time gift/donation of say…oh, $35 that would be an extra for $35,000,000 to the State cofers.
A small price to pay for getting the homeless an extra blankee, that child an extra bowl of Count Chocula, that unwed mother an extra 200 cellphone minutes…yes a small price to pay.
And just to show Im not such a mean, nasty, party of NO, republican I would contribute my $35 also…
Or perhaps a “Party of Yes/Party of No” come to Jesus meeting? Kinda like the foster child or Big brother programs. Each participating Pro-Tax Progressive could assist some dumb ole backwoods trailer living PBR drinkin Rep in making a contribution…here again that old adage “lead by example”.
md
January 29th, 2010
9:54 am
Less than 1% – the amount of data in relation to the subject of any global temperature graph.
Pretty silly if one truly looks at the big picture.
Balance Our Budget
January 29th, 2010
9:55 am
Gelding
The unemployed are dead wood? Not a very good campaign slogan.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:55 am
md – “Merely pointing out a “fact”, debate the fact”
as was I – that you are talking about comparing the temperature of the earth NOW to what it was when it was molten lava.
md
January 29th, 2010
9:56 am
“md – YOU were the one who said that you wanted to see data for the last 4.5 billion years of the world’s history and you’re calling ME snarky???”
Merely pointing out a “fact”, debate the fact.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
9:56 am
“Doggone – re: md’s and whack’s posts – they’d, of course, compare it to the original temperature of the earth as it formed and justify to you that the earth is actually cooling from when it was molten lava …”
I said millenia, not eons. Since the last Ice Age should suffice…
I have seen plenty of graphs that show the last 100 years or so, again I want to look back further.
Here is site for a few such graphs (for those of y’all who know how to read them!)
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
| My Green ATL
January 29th, 2010
9:58 am
[...] Bookman’s full column is worth a read because it rolls forward to a plan by Georgia Republicans to cut taxes. [...]
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
9:59 am
Oregon voted to raise taxes on corporations and citizens making more than 250,000 per year.
Boy, it sure is easy to vote in a tax increase if you don’t have to be the one paying it?
And I always love how the solution with libs is to tax more, as opposed to say…spending less?
Intown Lib
January 29th, 2010
9:59 am
Jay: You are right on the money. Our state leadership over the past 8-10 years has seriously harmed Georgia’s economic future. Unless there is dramatic progressive action on water and transportation, I foresee a long period of decline for Georgia and metro Atlanta. Take a look at what the Governor’s budget does to effectively end the GEFA program of low-interest loans going toward water and wastewater infrastructure. It is short-sighted public policy of the worst kind.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:00 am
good gravy. must everything lead to global warming or abortion?
it’s friday. can’t we debate the merits of chilli vs. wings at a Superbowl party???
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:00 am
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:00 am
I vote chili!! The game, regardless of its outcome, would be blow-out!
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:00 am
“debate the fact.”
If you have a relatively stable environment, and one factor changes and that factor alters the environment, with the potential to alter it radically in the future…then it’s useless to use graphs of the time BEFORE that changed factor as an indicator of the future of the environment. The only thing that matters is the graphs that begin when the changes due to that new factor begin to show the future trend.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:01 am
Chili.
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
10:01 am
If we want successful companies to relocate here, or rise up from our own citizenry, then we need an educated workforce, not a state full of knuckle-dragging, math-ignorant Dumb*bleeps*! The technologies of the future are under development now, and (like the President said the other night before I dozed off) WE should be the ones making the cool energy and techie stuff that the rest of the world buys, not China or India. WE should do it here first!
What part of “Test scores and graduation rates indicate an epidemic of STOOOOOOOOPID down there in Georgia” is lost on the pro-business crowd? Stick a crowbar in your wallet and let’s invest in education already, and stop expecting people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when the only jobs in their towns are at Hardee’s and WalMart. Fat, dumb, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:02 am
USinUK,
I don’t think it’s gonna snow where I live. No sledding for me this weekend.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:02 am
Bosch – are you stocked up on hot dogs for the Great Blizzard of 2010: Revenge of the Black Ice
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:02 am
can’t we debate the merits of chilli vs. wings at a Superbowl party???
—————————–
Why can’t we have both?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:03 am
Outhouse – 10:00 – dammit. I wasn’t expecting that – had a mouthful of tea …
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:03 am
“Stick a crowbar in your wallet and let’s invest in education already, and stop expecting people to pull themselves…”
THATS THE SPIRIT!!! Im proud of you Mati!! We have our first contributor from the Party of Yes We Can…a fine younr Pro-Tax Progressive has stepped up to the plate and will be loaning her crowbar to those in need.
And how much did you say you would be contributing…Ahem.
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:05 am
WE should be the ones making the cool energy and techie stuff that the rest of the world buys, not China or India. WE should do it here first!
—————————————————-
The problem is that Democrats only know how to demonize and punish business. This is why all the jobs are in China and India.
Why should someone in America go through the hassle of setting up a tech business here when they’ll just get raped by the government, and have to put up with a workforce of people who think everything should just be handed to them on a silver platter.
Thanks Democrats.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:06 am
Bosch
Both.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:07 am
Matilda,
But, but, but – can’t we all get vouchers and send our kids to private schools and then they’ll all get the smarts?
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:07 am
Oregon voters easily approved ballot measures
Voters APPROVED it. People don’t mind paying a little more in taxes when it is shown to lead to a higher quality of life.
For us in Jawju we can invest in trailer parks cause business will be booming. Move over Alabama – we will take your spot as the last state ranked in EVERYTHING!
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
10:07 am
Yes, you too can be a Taxpayer, Haywood Jablome. All you gots to do is git yoreself edjumicated and then git yoreself imploied and then yore emploier will take keer of the rest fer ya.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:08 am
UK
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:08 am
University of Michigan confidence – ALSO up – from 72.8 to 74.4, as expectations rose from 68.9 to 70.1 and the measure of current conditions rose from 78 to 81.1.
(link will be provided when the article is up)
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:08 am
Chicken wings are a waste. They are messy and the cost/benefit ratio is simply atrocious.
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:09 am
This is what you progressives don’t understand.
We already pay enough money in taxes to fund education to the hilt.
The problem is that government wastes so much money, or directs it to the wrong things, that they can’t get anything done right.
The government has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. There’s a stark difference. But really the problem is with Democrats, who keep voting in entitlement after entitlement after entitlement, and all these programs just implode because they’re train wrecks right out of the gate.
That and the mentality on the part of libs that says “if you want to keep what you’ve earned, you’re gready…and if I want to take what you’ve earned I’m noble”.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:10 am
Chicken wings are simply a mechanism or means to chew on chicken fat coated with some kind of sauce that is usually gross.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:10 am
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:07 am
YES WE CAN!!! Another Pro-Tax Progressive steps up to the plate. Finn McCool…come on down!!! So…how much will you be contributing to the State cofers? Did you need to borrow Mati’s Crowbar?
Ahem…how much did you say?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:11 am
Excellent column by the way Mr. Bookman. A nice round of polite ballet claps to you for that one.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
10:11 am
I’m still waiting for the big picture graph, the one that shows the entire 4.5 billion years of earth’s history, and all I keep getting is a little picture graph showing less than 1%.
You locate the pre-historic thermometers and I’ll plot the temperature data from them for you and even share it with cave men such as Inhofe.
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:11 am
People don’t mind paying a little more in taxes when it is shown to lead to a higher quality of life.
—————————————————————-
two quick things:
#1: the people who voted in the tax aren’t paying more in taxes, the new taxes effect those making $250,000 or higher….you know, the “evil rich” that you dumb libs hate so much that provide jobs etc.
#2: name even one case or example where higher taxes have led to a higher quality of life? Mass and Calif have the highest taxes in the country and they’re both bankrupt sh*t-holes. So much for your theory.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:12 am
Bosch
Steam’em for about 10 minutes to render of most of the fat. Then just bake’em for 18 minutes on a side and toss with sauce.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:12 am
Bosch – not to mention, if they’ve been sitting out for longer than 15 minutes, they’re grotty.
give me a steaming bowl of chilli at a party – yeah, there’s more to clean up (and then there’s the methane contribution to global warming), but, hey, you also get a chance to play in your food with all the extra condiments: guacamole, sour cream, cheese, extra japalenos, tortilla chips and / or tortillas … it’s NOM-ilicious
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:12 am
Proof NRB is proving he is already drunk this morning:
Average weekly wage of a blue collar employee in India/China tech industries: Venture a guess of what? $100 a week? Less?
Average weekly wage of a blue collar employee in US tech industries: Let’s venture a guess of $750 – $1,000
But, hey, them danged Democrats is demonizing and punishing biznesses here in the US…that’s the reason they move the jobs overseas!
Go sell that 3rd rate Fox News/ talk radio stupidity somewhere else, NRB
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:13 am
“Chicken wings are simply a mechanism or means to chew on chicken fat coated with some kind of sauce that is usually gross.”
There went my appetite. No more Taco Mac.
Perhaps instead of Hot Wings, Hot Brocolli or Hot Carrots might work.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:13 am
Bosch
That’s why you render the fat and make your own sauce.
Off topic: White House told Justice to find someplace else for the 9-11 trials. Somehow, I don’t think Justice has thought of the most obvious place – Gitmo – they aren’t gonna get the place closed, anyhow -
retired early
January 29th, 2010
10:13 am
I am so proud of our legislature. They have managed to keep us #1 in something. We are still the only state that does not allow Nurse Practitioners to write basic drug prescriptions. When all those bs move to rural Ga due to that low tax rate they won’t have worry about some “nurse” writing the wrong prescription. They can just make that extra 100 mile drive to see a “real” doctor.
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:14 am
Mass and CA are shi*oles?
Do you live in Georgia? Don’t get out much, do you?
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:15 am
So to correct Finn a little more concisely, people don’t mind voting in a new tax as long as they’re the ones NOT paying it.
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:15 am
Finn: I used to live in Mass and I’ve been to Cali. Sorry to burst your lib-tard bubble.
Also:
“Average weekly wage of a blue collar employee in India/China tech industries: Venture a guess of what? $100 a week? Less?
Average weekly wage of a blue collar employee in US tech industries: Let’s venture a guess of $750 – $1,000″
Do your research, the average weekly Salary in China $500 USD. You also have to factor in the difference in the cost of living between the two countries. A dollar here in the USA is like having $3 in China.
Don’t think about it too hard, your head will implode.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:15 am
USinUK
[[and then there’s the methane contribution to global warming]]
Anything with beans is not chili – just sayin’
Bosch
Where do you go for wings?
Hooters!!!
Where do you go for chili?
Bubbas – lookin’ at a guy with a hairy beer belly stickin’ out from under his t-shirt.
But…. it’s your choice, old friend….
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:16 am
“give me a steaming bowl of chilli at a party”
Followed my a rousing game of twister or a finger pulling contest. Now thats a Party!!
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:16 am
“the people who voted in the tax aren’t paying more in taxes, the new taxes effect those making $250,000 or higher”
Wonder how they kept all those rich people from voting?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
10:17 am
Paul,
But, you go to all that trouble for like a morsel of chicken meat, if even that. It’s simply not worth it to me. I don’t want to work that hard for my food.
USinUK,
Oh yes, chili condoments – it’s like a different meal everytime!!!
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:17 am
Paul, that sounds like Alton Brown’s recipe from Good Eats.
Great show.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:18 am
Paul – “Anything with beans is not chili – just sayin’ ” spoken like a true Texan!
(I don’t think you’d like my chilli – I use black beans, cannelini beans, ground turkey, red and yellow bell peppers, onions and corn in addition to the tomatoes, japalenos and spices)
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:18 am
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:15 am
We have a WINNER!!
Good luck getting the Party of YES we can to admit it. I would join their party but just a little too self-righteous for my taste.
Pass the beer nuts!
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:18 am
Paul – I forgot the most important ingredient – BEER – one MUST sacrifice a bottle of beer to the Chilli Gods to appease them …
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
10:18 am
NRB2, you make a valid point at 10:09. It’s frustrating to see our tax dollars wasted or spent inefficiently while not meeting the needs of the collective public good — for which taxes are intended.
So what is YOUR solution? I hear lots of “conservatives” who think the answer is to starve the beast (government), until it shrivels up and dies. (Um, not gonna happen.) Guess what? When you hire people to run the government who’s platform is “Government sucks,” they prove it, and then say, “See? Told ya!” at reelection time. What does that solve?
Why not hire people who actually CARE about getting down to the nuts and bolts of spending the money appropriately, efficiently, and for the collective public good FOR A CHANGE? The real work there is not glamorous, but it’s important. If you think you could do a better job, and you can demonstrate honorable intent (ditch the venom, it’s pointless), then I’ll come work your campaign. But I’m really sick of the logic: “Everything is wrong, but it’s nothing that I’m willing to help fix!”
NRB2
January 29th, 2010
10:19 am
Wonder how they kept all those rich people from voting?
—————————————-
I’m sure they did vote. But if only 2 people out of 100 are making that much money it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out why their vote was moot.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:20 am
Bosch – “you go to all that trouble for like a morsel of chicken meat, if even that. It’s simply not worth it to me”
that’s how I feel about steamed crabs … too much work for too little return …
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:21 am
Outhouse, I have never complained about paying taxes. It’s a citizens duty to help pay to support the system we live in.
You folks get pee’ood that people who got nothing aren’t paying anything in taxes. Well, the system isn’t working for them as well as it’s working for the people who are making money, now is it?
Let’s get our panties in a wad that some people don’t make enough to get by instead of that they don’t make enough to contribute tax dollars. If we get angry enough, maybe we can offer them a living wage for the work they do?
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:23 am
Finn
It is, with a couple of mods. I steam’em longer and cook’em less time. Plus I make a completely different sauce. His is more appropriate for northeasterners not in Buffalo.
Bosch
That’s why I pick out my own wings at the market. Not all brands are created equal. Plus, wings come with built-in toothpicks!
USinUK
I’d probably like it as long as I didn’t think it was chili!
Speakin’ of which, it’s frakkin’ cold and rainy here.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:24 am
USinUK
One must sacrifice TWO bottles – one for the pot and one for the cook!
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
10:24 am
Bosch and USinUK, I like hummus with my football! Mmmmmmm, and olives stuffed with garlic and jalepenos. I know meat dripping with grease is more traditional, but chick peas are heart healthy, and some of my friends tell me that heart attacks are no fun — especially if you don’t have health insurance!
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
10:24 am
It seems to me it would be in the best interest, regarding taxes that is, of the current batch of rich folks to work toward making a majority of rich folks soes they can vote for more tax cuts. Either that or just buy themselves a few hundred lawmakers.
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:24 am
If you want to eat a bowl of spicy wet meat, be my guest. I prefer a meal which includes vegetables and perhaps a little cheese as well.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:24 am
USinUK
That’s why I stick with the higher-grade (larger) King crab legs -
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:25 am
“But if only 2 people out of 100 are making that much money it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out why their vote was moot”
Well, if they don’t like it they can always move somewhere else, right?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
10:26 am
Now it all becomes clear as to why Nasty Pelosi is such a wunderdunce-
WND Exclusive OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL
Taxpayers pay $101,000 for Pelosi’s in-flight ‘food, booze’
Speaker’s trips ‘are more about partying than anything else’
Posted: January 29, 2010
12:20 am Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
Part of the tab for alcoholic drinks on a congressional trip arranged by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
It reads like a dream order for a wild frat party: Maker’s Mark whiskey, Courvoisier cognac, Johnny Walker Red scotch, Grey Goose vodka, E&J brandy, Bailey’s Irish Crème, Bacardi Light rum, Jim Beam whiskey, Beefeater gin, Dewars scotch, Bombay Sapphire gin, Jack Daniels whiskey … and Corona beer.
But that single receipt makes up just part of the more than $101,000 taxpayers paid for “in-flight services” – including food and liquor, for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s trips on Air Force jets over the last two years. That’s almost $1,000 per week.
Gulp, gulp, gulp, duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:28 am
“living wage”
uh…no. Employees receive what “the market” will pay. I also dont mind paying taxes, however, resent paying for other mistakes and/or lack of planning.
Then again there is the Voluntary Pro-Tax Progresives Donation Foundaton…the VPTPDF, if you will…Mati will loan you her crowbar should you need it.
“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? When the going gets tough…the TOUGH get goin.”
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:29 am
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
10:26 am
One thing for sure…If Pelosi knows as much about Scotch as she does about legislating then we are doomed I say…DOOOOOOMED!!
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:30 am
“Employees receive what “the market” will pay”
If pay was solely left to “the market” we would ALL be working for free.
TnGelding
January 29th, 2010
10:30 am
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
9:52 am
Thanks to the stimulus and Fed.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:31 am
Paul –
I’m with you on the 2-beer rule !!
as for crabs, I lived in DC 8 years and never understood the attraction to the whole MD steamed crab thing … crabCAKES, absolutely … but hitting a crab with a mallet, then getting Old Bay seasoning in all your tiny cuts, no thanks.
Matilda – that’s why I make my chilli with turkey!!
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:31 am
So, how do we appease the biznesses, NRB?
Forego the pensions? did that
Don’t get too upset when the companies stop contributing to 401K’s? Already started
Slowly but consistently allow other benefits be stripped away? Ongoing
Slowly but consistently watch health insurance premiums rise WHILE co-pays are rising and health benefits are being scaled back? ditto
NRB wants us all to work for free and keep our damn mouths shut…and smile broadly.
Perhaps we can go back to the 72-hour work week, too. We don’t need 2-day weekends. Sacrifice, people, sacrifice fer crying out loud!
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:31 am
Report/Whine
She’s not paying, why should she care?
Off-topic followup:
Anyone know the status of cutting off the $400 Billion in Medicare fraud Democrats identified in the health reform savings?
Any legislation, hearing, investigations,,, anything?
Or is it going to go the way of “The CIA lied to me! I didn’t know anything about waterboarding!”
Personally, I always thought it was (searching for a polite way of saying ‘not true’ or something more blunt) a sleight-of-hand to force the CBO numbers to come out the way they wanted them to.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:31 am
as promised – the consumer confidence article
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aq.4kbPaDaUs
ROLLERGIRL
January 29th, 2010
10:32 am
notice how voters NEVER approve sweeping tax cuts across the board, they always vote to tax someone other than themselves more..the so called rich(and 250K sure as hell isn’t rich).
I have spent time in oregon recently , and noticed one thing..no middle ground..you have techies living in portland, and everyone else in the state living hand to mouth on the timber industry. IF you want to stay in your little portland enclave, you have good mass transit (which I still did not use..who wants to be at the whim of where public transportation goes?) The rest of the state is taxed for that of little use to them.
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
10:32 am
Outhouse, will a tire iron do? BTW, I learned the hard way that just because the flat end of the tire iron *looks* like a great big ol’ flathead screwdriver, it should not be used for that purpose on or near porcelain fixtures. Just a tip there for weekend home-improvement warriors.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:36 am
Paul –
“Or is it going to go the way of “The CIA lied to me! I didn’t know anything about waterboarding!””
um, you do realize that last year the CIA admitted lying in their dealings with Congress – you may not want to use that example.
just sayin
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:36 am
“and some of my friends tell me that heart attacks are no fun”
Well they can be! Take for example my heart attack scare during Dec. Woke up with chest hurting, drove to ER, sat in bed for 2.5 hours with all these lovely angels of mercy, enjoyed the pharmeceuticals then was released.
OH and here is the best part. Received the bill for approx $4500!! Why thats a mere $1800 per hour for the Angels of Mercy, Doc, X-ray technician etc….Well worth it!
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:36 am
To my friends on the pro side of Global Warming,”here’s your sign”. You now have your most credible ally, Osama bin Laden. The best part he blames the U.S. for it. When/if we catch him and our Commander and Chief of Apology confronts him I wonder if he bows,Obama that is.
md
January 29th, 2010
10:37 am
“Wonder how they kept all those rich people from voting?”
The vote passed with 52% approval. Pure class warfare – not good for the future.
And to show how the masses in OR think, they also voted for higher business tax, with many propably clueless that the evil corporation will pass it back to them.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:38 am
Rollergirl
If median household income is about $50k and $250k is made by only a couple percent of all households, where would you draw the line?
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:38 am
doggone,
“If you have a relatively stable environment, and one factor changes and that factor alters the environment, with the potential to alter it radically in the future…then it’s useless to use graphs of the time BEFORE that changed factor as an indicator of the future of the environment.”
Sorry to go back to this, but when has Earth had a relatively stable environment? Look at almost any variable, including temperature, outside of a very short-term period, and you will see wild fluctuations from any number of causes. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, and even prevailing wind patterns all are in cycles of varying lengths and intensity.
Should we be concerned about human-made pollution? Sure, ecological damage is provable. But the problem we have is trusting the doomsday models, or even assuming that only one factor is responsible for the change in temperature. When our meteorological models cannot even pinpoint the rain/snow line for North Georgia tonight, what makes you think we should trust the results of such models on a variable we do not fully understand? Carbon dioxide is not exactly a new variable, it was the original atmospheric gas.
Dr. Gray’s hurricane model is highly regarded as the most accurate, and he has good results. Yet some years he has been way off, and has then discovered additional variables and added them in for the next run. We should work to reduce pollution, and turn to greener energy sources. But let’s use discretion on jumping to extreme apocalyptic scenarios.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
10:39 am
Another Reach Across The Aisle
I love this lie, courtesy of Boner.
“There was nothing … in the president’s [State of the Union] speech to indicate that there was any willingness to sit down and work together,” Boehner said. Republicans would try to find common ground with Obama, he said, “but we’re not going to roll over on our principles.”
Boner, you lie.
All one has to do is watch the video or read the transcript of the speech.
Boner, you lie.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/bal-md.bipartisan29jan29,0,6494185.story
ROLLERGIRL
January 29th, 2010
10:39 am
outhouse, Taco mac food is nasty…I’m not big into the sports bar type places but get dragged there by collegeues and boyfriend, and of the local locations i’d say stats has the best food by far..and the cool table tap thingie..
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:39 am
hmm, I make out pretty good so I guess I don’t have a grudge against the working poor like you conservatives do.
But then I don’t compete with them for jobs.
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:41 am
I haven’t heard of stats.
We’ve been on a fish taco hunt for a couple of months – trying to find the best one. I keep hearing good things about Taquieria del Sol so might have to hit that next.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:41 am
USinUK
Spkr Pelosi said “they lied” in response to charges she was briefed on waterboarding but did nothing to stop it. Her response doesn’t make a lot of sense – what she’s saying is the CIA said the were planning/did do waterboarding, but they lied, which means they weren’t planning/didn’t do waterboarding.
I suppose that makes sense inside the Beltway, but….
getalife
January 29th, 2010
10:42 am
Economy soars 5.7 percent in 4th quarter, fastest in 6 years.
Recession over.
The banks should start lending in alternative energy for jobs.
Finally, some good news.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Finn,
Personally I like the fish tacos at La Parrilla, and they are all over metro here. What’s been your fave so far?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Paul – no, what she said was that they didn’t tell her what they were doing – they said that they did.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Whacks – fish tacos … omg, them’s good food!
Joey
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
It is my understanding that the Urban Mobility Report (google “time-travel index) of typical commute times measures vehicle commutes and does not include Public Transit Commutes. A reason for this could be that any expert in commute times, or anyone who has used both, is fully aware that Public Transit Commutes take significantly more time than personal velhicle commutes. This is why the term “Rapid Transit” is no longer in vogue.
Regarding metro Atlanta and Public Transit, none of the local governments, including ARC, GRTA, DOT are willing to reduce the availability of parking in order to get people out of their cars. They instead want to pretend that making personal-vehicle commute more expensive (higher gas prices and higher parking fees) will change behavior. This will not work for any extended period.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
“Sorry to go back to this, but when has Earth had a relatively stable environment?”
When did I say it did? I was using a “relatively stable environment” as an EXAMPLE.
” Look at almost any variable, including temperature, outside of a very short-term period, and you will see wild fluctuations from any number of causes. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, and even prevailing wind patterns all are in cycles of varying lengths and intensity.”
Global temperature is an average, not a specific example.
“Should we be concerned about human-made pollution? Sure, ecological damage is provable. But the problem we have is trusting the doomsday models, or even assuming that only one factor is responsible for the change in temperature. When our meteorological models cannot even pinpoint the rain/snow line for North Georgia tonight, what makes you think we should trust the results of such models on a variable we do not fully understand? Carbon dioxide is not exactly a new variable, it was the original atmospheric gas. ”
How many people were around when carbon dioxide was the “original atmospheric gas”?
“Dr. Gray’s hurricane model is highly regarded as the most accurate, and he has good results. Yet some years he has been way off, and has then discovered additional variables and added them in for the next run. We should work to reduce pollution, and turn to greener energy sources. But let’s use discretion on jumping to extreme apocalyptic scenarios”
If the end result is better conservation of resources and a reduction of greenhouse gasses, when what does it matter if you are using a “doomsday” scenario or not?
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
USinUK-I think your going to find out that Ms Pelosi did in fact know.There’s a book out Courting Disaster:How the CIA kept America Safe and How Obama is Inviting the Next Attack, by Marc Thiessen. I heard an interview with him this am where he states and writes in his book that she was involved/informed. He also wrote that she help shoot down a covert operation intended to keep the Iran out of the elections in Iraq.Have’nt read the book yet but plan on picking up a copy.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
“I love this lie, courtesy of Boner.”
I thought he, Boner and U2 were quite the liberals.
professional skeptic
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
Rollergirl: And I’m sure that taxpayers in big-city Portland have funded rural state roads that they never drive on.
Sounds eerily familiar…
Also, Matilda @ 10:18: very well said. Hire a bunch of Georgia Conservatives to run government, they Go Fish, play golf, run around while they think their wives aren’t looking…. all the while letting the state go to hell in a handcart.
And they wonder what’s wrong with government?
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:47 am
“The banks should start lending in alternative energy for jobs.”
I like that idea, but can we stop the demonization of nuclear? I’d really like to see a new plant built before Obama leaves office, and I really want energy independence, especially for non-transportation. Transportation fuel will be trickier, but I like the idea of fuel cells. Hope that keeps going forward too.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:48 am
“They instead want to pretend that making personal-vehicle commute more expensive (higher gas prices and higher parking fees) will change behavior. This will not work for any extended period.”
You can pry my car keys from my cold dead hands.
jconservative
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Kia built their new Georgia down on the Alabama border because there are not enough skilled workers in Georgia to staff the plant. Most of the employees will come over the state line from Alabama. Yet Georgia
gave away the store to get the plant.
ROLLERGIRL
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Finn, I guess there can be cmmon ground between everyone because I just agreed with ya on Taqueria del sol..best talapia tacos in town.
The food does seem to vary by location, the best seeming to be the original in the pretentiously bohemia (please look how green I am, I spent a lot on my “100% organic” flashing neon sign)section of decatur…
Jess
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Jay,
So you are saying that taxes are the only reason which could account for one state prospering more than another. If in ten years Oregon has higher index numbers than Georgia it will be proof that higher taxes breed prosperity. I think this is referred to as the Michigan model.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:50 am
Hef –
“I heard an interview with him this am where he states and writes in his book that she was involved/informed.”
oh, well, then … that totally convinces me. thanksforthat.
like I said, the CIA admitted to lying to and misleading Congress not just once but several times in the past, so, pardon me, but I do not believe for one second that they admitted to ANYone in Congress that they were waterboarding
md
January 29th, 2010
10:51 am
“no, what she said was that they didn’t tell her what they were doing – they said that they did.”
What a choice, believe the nations spooks or a career politician. I’ll back the working man – the spooks.
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:51 am
best fish tacos so far were from a hole in the wall Mexican joint beside a gas station at Hamilton Mill and I-85. I don’t recall the name of the place.
The ones we make are good, too – as long as we can get cod at the H Mart!
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
doggone,
Most scientists who have researched formation of the earth have come to the conclusion that the gas started as carbon dioxide. Plus the atmosphere of Mars and Venus, our neighboring planets, are 95-95% CO2, so it is logical we started that way too. If you follow standard scientific models, we are made from the same “junk” as those planets, but our position from the Sun is special, and allowed the right mixture for massive changes.
“If the end result is better conservation of resources and a reduction of greenhouse gasses, when what does it matter if you are using a “doomsday” scenario or not?”
The scenario is not the problem, it is the knee-jerk things that wackos propose doing as a result of it. Sane people suggest reducing population, power hungry politicians suggest using it as worldwide wealth redistribution.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
USinUK-He also states “waterboarding” was used 3 times! times on 3 people,thats out many thousands of held captives. He also states that we use the same practice on our own inlisted people as part of they’re training, have’nt heard any complaints as of yet of torture.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
**You now have your most credible ally, Osama bin Laden**
Don’t fall for this pr stunt – bin laden is most likely long ago six feet under.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
As a native Oregonian (born and raised in Portland) every time I return home I see new and improved changes to the city. The infrastructure has impressiveley changed, the downtown area, and the waterfront are classic examples of good city planning, and the public transportation is second to none. Years ago I remember Tom McCall, at that time governor had a billboard erected which stated
‘Please have a pleasant stay while in the great state of Oregon, but don’t stay!
If I had not been transferred here, I’d still live in Oregon, people don’t leave on their own volition!
Oregon also does not have a state sales tax, so people from Washington, California, and Idaho come to shop bringing revenue to the shops, and stores!
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:54 am
md – ” I’ll back the working man – the spooks”
you go right ahead and back the people who admitted lying to Congress.
I, however, won’t.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:55 am
USinUK
Do we have to go over this again? The documentation was clear – she knew what they were planning, did nothing, then one of her senior staffers reported they were waterboarding and he reported back to her. She was in an untenable situation and took a dishonorable way out. What’s most telling to me is there was zero followup by her after it all died down on her charge CIA employees committed felonies.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:56 am
“that the gas started as carbon dioxide”
How many people were around then?
“Sane people suggest reducing population, power hungry politicians suggest using it as worldwide wealth redistribution.”
That’s a new one to ME. How about some concrete examples?
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
10:57 am
Anyone know the status of cutting off the $400 Billion in Medicare fraud Democrats identified in the health reform savings?
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/health_care/HScomparison.pdf
page 5 and 6 will get you started.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
Thats great!! Now, back to our studio for this commercial message.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
Hef –
“He also states that we use the same practice on our own inlisted people as part of they’re training, have’nt heard any complaints as of yet of torture.”
you really want to dredge this load of bollocks back up? fine.
do you REALLY want to compare the experience of someone who is being “trained” by his own military unit (e.g., people who aren’t out to kill him) to someone who is a PRISONER being held by people who were just recently shooting at him??? seriously?? do you REALLY want to play those particular cards?
as for the “only used 3 times” … let’s just say that’s true … so, if you “only” break international law 3 times that’s okay??? if a sovereign army was holding a bunch of marines prisoner and broke international law with them “only” 3 times, that would be okay with you???
christ, talk about the saddest excuse of an argument I’ve ever heard.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
USinUK-There’s the difference,you believe someone that lie’s to our face’s daily as opposed to CIA that is attempting to protect us from harms way. I choose the latter.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
**You now have your most credible ally, Osama bin Laden**
“Don’t fall for this pr stunt – bin laden is most likely long ago six feet under”
Somebody forgot to tell John McCain!
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:00 am
sfd
Thanks, but that was the reconciliation, and on the one area – Advantage – it said Senate didn’t want to take any action.
So, the short answer is “nothing’s in the works to cut out $400 billion in fraud, waste and abuse.
Which brings up another point – a couple dozen Democrats voted against the commission for savings because they didn’t want to have to take votes on reducing Medicare. Yet (as Jay put it) Democrats are already on record as wanting to cut $400 bil. Then again, maybe the ‘no’ Dems were the ones who thought it was nonsense to begin with.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:00 am
Paul –
“The documentation was clear – she knew what they were planning, did nothing, then one of her senior staffers reported they were waterboarding and he reported back to her”
considering there IS no documentation, I don’t see how you can say that. no notes can be taken in or after the briefings.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
shorter Hef (10:59) – I choose to believe people who admit to frequently lying to the people who rely on them for intel rather than a Democrat (especially a female one who is in charge – I mean, who the hell does she think she is telling menfolk what to do?!)
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
If you want a blog/forum that sticks only to the main subject…go find one. This isn’t it. I’m sure there are PLENTY of them out there. Just look. Start now.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
10:57 am
I provided a link to that (and other documents) in the past myself but there was no apparent interest from anyone regarding its content.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:02 am
Jay, it never ceases to amaze me….You start out with a topic (and this one affects everyone living in Georgia) and soon the blog turns into an afternoon cooking school, or today we are off on an expedition to find a fish taco. What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:03 am
“worldwide wealth redistribution.”
Via Climate Change and Carbon Credits. Thats the bottom line.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
USinUK-I understand your argument but i don’t agree with it. If the process garners information that saves human lives,US lives then yes I support it. Are you telling me if CIA could gather info that might save the life of friend or god forbid a loved one,you would choose to not? To me thats sad.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
show of hands for fish tacos …
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
USinUK
Have you done any research of relevant documentation or are you going with what you think most likely?
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
Outhouse GoKart … I believe the original intent of this thread was to discuss Georgia, and Oregon’s differing approach to taxes.
I guess you didn’t get the memo.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
I provided a link to that (and other documents) in the past myself
That was you? thanks. I had the PDF around, but I had to search for the link.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
Hef –
“Are you telling me if CIA could gather info that might save the life of friend or god forbid a loved one,you would choose to not? To me thats sad.”
you know all those spooks you say you support? they all say torture doesn’t work. me, I figure they know of which they speak a helluva lot better than you armchair intel specialists.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
“we are off on an expedition to find a fish taco. What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
A clean fish taco?
The nearest Capt D’s?
Sushi Yoshi?
Hot Tuna?
Tuna Helper?
Gourmet Fish Sticks?
BOGO at the local Kroger on FrankenBerry cereal?
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
USinUK
First Google hit -
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/intelligence-re.html
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
Oh I got holmes…Ive already contributed my 2 cents.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?
Well! I take it you’ve never had a Georgia-grown-catfish taco before. They’re all the rage. A real revenue generator, plus tax.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
USinUK-Really I could care less if she’s a female or not.She is a female,right? lol
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
A Reminder About That Republican HCR Plan
The graphic is very graphic. republicants are the party of NO.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/29/831668/-A-Reminder-about-that-Republican-HCR-Plan
citizen
January 29th, 2010
11:08 am
I didn’t get to hear all of Congressman Waxman’s defense of passing the Health Insurance Reform Bill, but the gist of his remarks were ‘ Democrats should not fear a backlash at re-election time because the majority of people in their districts would benefit from this health insurance reform package because they are uninsured.’ Does that mean Democrats=uninsured? Am I to take away from this that Independents and Republicans are employed, pay the taxes and are able to afford health insurance benefits? We will always take care of the truly poor but to try to make us take care of the individuals who won’t try to better themselves is outrageous.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:09 am
Paul – I’m going by what was reported as standard security procedures for congressional briefings
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
USinUK-”they all say torture does’nt work”? Really they ALL say that or ones that support your argument?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
Hef – “USinUK-Really I could care less if she’s a female or not.She is a female,right? lol”
you know, your side would have a lot more credibility on that if you guys didn’t always focus on her looks (much in the same way you focus on Hillary’s)
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
If I had not been transferred here, I’d still live in Oregon, people don’t leave on their own volition!
Conversely, the Portland area is on my short list of places I’d relocate to in a heartbeat if/when the opportunity arises. I do love decent sized chunks of Georgia, but sometimes Teh Stoopit here, it burns.
And as a parent, Jay’s point earlier about our state’s education is very troubling; I know a lot of a kid’s prowess as a student has to do with what you do to augment their learning and we do that already, but I do wonder if my kid will, ultimately, be tagged as unhireable outside of this state despite our efforts. There’s time for the next governor to start to turn it around, but he/she best get moving.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:11 am
“A real revenue generator, plus tax.”
LOL!
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:11 am
Do we have to go over this again?
Paul,
Once a storyline forms in the left wing echo chamber it never changes among hardcore leftists and even though USinUK may be a lovable hardcore leftist she’s a hardcore leftist nonetheless. You could show a video of Nancy Pelosi attending an actual waterboarding of KSM and you wouldn’t break through, but I admire your perseverance.
/Did you know if you leave the l off of lovable one of the spell check offerings is microwavable?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:12 am
Paul – wow, so THEY said they told her and THAT’S the evidence. yep. I’m convinced.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:13 am
Doggone/GA ..Didn’t mean to upset you.
You’re right, but instead of finding another blog … I do have better ways
to squander my time.
See ya…………………….
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:14 am
“I do love decent sized chunks of Georgia, but sometimes Teh Stoopit here, it burns.”
That it does.
thomas
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
Best superbowl food is buffaloed chicken tenders! Fry them the same way then just spin them in any variety of sauces. You get the burn of hot wings, but some actual food. Plus not as messy, with all of the heartburn when mixed with a good dark beer.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
Hef –
“Really they ALL say that or ones that support your argument?”
I’m sorry – just the ones from the Army, the FBI and the CIA … I’m sure there are some in Saudi Arabia who think that it does …
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Top-Interrogation-Experts-by-George-Washington-090423-933.html
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
USinUK-U never answered my 11:04,I’m curious what would be your answer? And I can’t/won’t speak for the rest of my brethern,I don’t care what gender anyone on the left is. I disagree with them all equally.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
According to Colbert, a real reporter, the Republican’s plan to save the world is contained on about nine pages, single-sided and double-spaced with about fifty percent of each page consumed by margins and pretty graphics. Let’s see. Thet leaves just enough room for their key messages. “Drill This,” “How do you spell NO,” “I said Tort Reform so leave our Gold Dome Tarts alone,” and “We don’t need no steenking taxes.”
md
January 29th, 2010
11:16 am
“you go right ahead and back the people who admitted lying to Congress.”
You referring to the spooks or the politicians????
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:16 am
RW-I always said USinUK was microwavable! smile
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:17 am
USinUK
Well, I suppose ABC news has an inside track?
Bottom line: it was used to illustrate how Spkr Pelosi will make charges, assertions, then there’s zip followup, whether it’s accusing career federal employees of felonies or telling us about fraud, waste and abuse in programs and how they’re going to fix it.
RW-(the original)
Microwavable? Does that mean you could just eat her up?
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:17 am
I guess I should make an on topic comment too before I head to the forest. Whenever I see a piece like this that tells me one more cut in government spending will take away all our teachers, fire, I know it’s just the left trying to play on people’s fears. They never once talk about all the dead weight that could be cut first because they don’t ever want government reined in so they go right to the kids education and your protection.
I work behind the scenes in federal and state government offices all the time and the waste is incredible. Anybody that states that any further cuts would have to come straight from the classroom or first responders is naive or lying.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
“Doggone/GA ..Didn’t mean to upset you”
Why would you think I’m upset? I was just trying to help you out, since you don’t seem happy here. Strikes me it’s YOU that’s upset.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
USinUK
One of the things I like about you is you haven’t (until now) asked people to do research for you -
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:14 am
Well if all you haters and player haters would leave then perhaps the quality of life would improve for us who chose to remain.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
Paul,
I guess it means my spell checker thinks she’s a tasty treat.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:19 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
One is a mere pipe dream, and the other is yummy!
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:19 am
I vote fish tacos.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:21 am
geez, remove an all and add in some police in the second sentence of that 11:17. Maybe I’ll have another cup of coffee before that forest excursion.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
11:21 am
Much of the fourth-quarter expansion was due to government stimulus and to companies boosting output to restock supplies depleted by the recession. Such inventory restocking boosts production not only at manufacturers but also at their suppliers. That ripple effect can help boost an entire chain of related industries.
In the meantime, the National Bureau of Economic Research, the group based in Cambridge, Mass., that determines the start and end of recessions, has said nothing about the latest one having ended.
We haven’t gooten the bill yet for obozo’s little splurge.
eewwwww
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK
What I think is really, really, really cool about the Obama Administration is, they know torture never, ever, not once works and as threads here have shown, what works really well for gaining all sorts of intel is forming relationships, building trust, showing confidence and keeping it on a personal level.
That always seemed like such a long, time-consuming, drawn-out process to me, but WOW! The Obama Administration showed us with the Christmas bomber that they can do that whole process and drain the subject dry of all possible intelligence leads…
in just 50 minutes!!! Those guys are really, really good!
Jimmy62
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
Portland is a planned city and their metro area is far smaller than Atlanta’s in both population and geopgraphy. And they don’t have nearly as many hills and valleys to deal with. Apples and oranges.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK,
Can you find fish tacos back across the pond? I like fish & chips ok, but that’s not even close.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:24 am
Hef,
If I may interupt here, but isn’t the whole “if you could find evidence that would save someone you love from being blown to bits in a terrorist attack- so therefore we must torture” argument kind of lame? I mean, isn’t the answer to that question OBVIOUSLY “yes?’
I mean, everyone whose died in a terrorist attack had someone who loved them (hopefully) – let’s look at this big picture instead of interjecting hyperbole.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
RW and Hef – microwavable? criminey, I don’t even do a tanning bed!
Hef – my 11:06 WAS in response to your question – no, I don’t support torture because the people who are in the intel business say it doesn’t work. and, much like capital punishment, what if it’s done on someone who really DOESN’T know anything (which has been the case in the recent past) – I’m sorry, but it makes us no better than those we call our enemies.
so, no, I don’t support torture. not in my name. we’re supposed to be better than that.
thomas
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
RW,
You are correct about waste.
I know its bad to speak badly of anything education….. but.
Do some research and you will find that a near majority of PELL grant reciepients, recieve well over tuition and other asscoiated cost of ed. In reality they use it to pay for bills, or cable, or their phone. Some use it for spending money(drinking money).
Being that small community colleges give out over 1 million of financial aide each year, I am sure there is a mass amount that could be saved through going through this FAFSA program with that scalpel of Obama’s for sure. Since I assure you that many of these students only go to school for the PELL grant, it is their single and only source of income.
If over a million at each community college think how much could be saved from all community colleges and all 4yr schools.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
AND to start off our music day cuz I might be gone later – here’s Bosch’s new number one favorite song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog
NJ
January 29th, 2010
11:27 am
Even conservative economists who are not ideologues have recommended raising taxes to deal with recessions. One of the most conservative Comptroller Generals of the United States in history, recommended them to George HW Bush after Reagan left office. Bush refused. And the recession went on. This same guy was still Comptroller General when Clinton took office, Clinton followed his recommendations to the letter, and the recession ended, the economy took off. Charles Bowsher gave Bush a terrible report about the Reagan years. Basically he said that Reagan virtually ruined the domestic economy. That was the first time in history that a Comptroller General ever issued a report critical of any presidential administration.
No matter how you slice it, tax cuts that are not targeted, always end up producing speculative market bubbles, because there is only so much money that a person spend in the consumer markets. Once that point is reached, the speculation begins.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
11:28 am
LOU BRIEN, MARKET STRATEGIST, DRW TRADING GROUP, CHICAGO:
“Inventory accumulation was the key to the number. Personal consumption is more moderate when you take out the inventory, and that throws into question the sustainability of any kind of growth, because personal consumption is the key.
ROBERT MACINTOSH, CHIEF ECONOMIST, EATON VANCE CORP,
BOSTON:
“I doubt it will stay this high once they revise it twice.”
Growth was boosted by a sharp slowdown in the pace of inventory liquidation, a factor that could mask the strength of the economic recovery from the longest and deepest downturn since the Great Depression.-Financial Post
Just sayin….
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:29 am
Whacks – actually, we have a couple of good Mexican places here in London – not many, but a few. There’s a place called Wahaca near Covent Garden – killer south-of-the-boarder food!! including fish tacos.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:30 am
Leave it to Republicans to whine about spending too much while offering more tax cuts to fix that whine. Not to worry though. Once they make it legal for 15 year olds to work in table dance clubs, as long as they do not serve alcohol, the revenue stream from the Gold Dome alone will wipe out our deficit. Just think what they could do with Sunday alcohol sales in combination with other changes. Child labor laws are just an impediment to growth.
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:30 am
Off Topic Question:
If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Scout,
To be honest, if that happened, I don’t think anyone would be concerned about that.
jewcowboy
January 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Scout,
“If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?”
I think this video will answer that question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAqtoAuDlo
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:36 am
Jewcowboy!
Oh, I love Blondid! Debbie Harry ? Meow!!! That song is so groovy.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
USinUK & Bosch-I accept your responses,I don’t agree though. This would not have to be just a terrorists situation,it could be a child abduction for example and my response would be the same. God HELP anyone that would harm my EXTREMELY BEAUTIFULL WIFE to be,her daughter,or any of my siblings. I believe that our country/society has become way to PC,that me.
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
Headline: “On the eve of the fullest moon of the year, NASA scientists are told they will no longer be able to visit, as Obama eliminates space program’s manned moon missions.”
Question: Has a black man ever been to the moon? Maybe Obama would like to go?
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive, would the rich white men still claim that the best course of action is to cut taxes for themselves and their contributors?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
jewcowboy,
Make that Blondie – with an ‘e.’
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
thomas,
I don’t doubt that there’s enormous waste in education spending, primarily in the area of distributing that money, but my point is that we could achieve tremendous savings without ever touching education, fire, or police services. The left just uses those to scare you into thinking there are no other cuts to be made. Any trained journalist worth his or her salt knows this and a piece like this one is nothing more than stoking fear.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
Hef,
I don’t think those situations are a matter of thinking PC or not – it’s just a matter of letting your own emotions determine policy – which, unfortunately we can’t do. I’m with you – I’d physically rip off someone’s head given the chance if they hurt a member of my family – I think anyone would.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
“Once they make it legal for 15 year olds to work in table dance clubs, as long as they do not serve alcohol, the revenue stream from the Gold Dome alone will wipe out our deficit.”
Why wait until they’re 15? 13, maybe even 12. Wipe out that deficit much faster.
md
January 29th, 2010
11:41 am
A little story about gov’t waste:
Had a good friend assigned to do a study on how to cut waste within a certain gov’t agency (this person worked in the agency). This agency paid good money for this 6-8 month study. A large amount of waste was identified and suggestions made to include production efficiences, etc (no job cuts). When the results were completed, the powers that be thanked this person for a job well done and put the study in a drawer.
Nothing from that study was ever implemented, and that was ONE gov’t entity. Where is this scalpel we keep hearing about???
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:43 am
Matilda:
Or would the liberals let them stay and put them on welfare so they would vote Democrat?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:44 am
Hef – 11:37 – I totally understand and agree with you that I’d want to use my bare hands to rip the throat out of anyone who harmed someone I love. (to this day, I don’t know how parents of murdered children can sit in the same courtroom with those who did the deed). I’d want to – but that wouldn’t make it right – and, most imporantly – history has shown that it’s very likely that it wouldn’t get the information I needed.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:46 am
md – “Nothing from that study was ever implemented, and that was ONE gov’t entity. Where is this scalpel we keep hearing about???”
I totally agree with you on this – until we change the budgeting system that rewards departments USING their allocated budget to one that rewards departments for saving money, we will ALWAYS have this situation.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:46 am
USinUK,
If your purpose is to rip out the throat of someone with your bare hands, what information were you supposedly after?
/Note to self…stay at least two arm lengths away from USinUK
Drain The Swamp (NIF)
January 29th, 2010
11:46 am
The flaw in expecting giant bureaucracies to cut budgets is that they would be firing themselves.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:47 am
RW,
I think your safe as long as ya’ don’t go round hurting USinUK’s loved ones. Speaking of throat ripping, is tonight the full moon?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:49 am
RW – “/Note to self…stay at least two arm lengths away from USinUK”
especially when I’m hungry … heck, I’d even scare OBL, himself
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:52 am
Bosch,
Does the full moon still work if nobody can see it? The tides don’t care about clouds, but in the movies, whenever the clouds obscure the moon, the person changes back to normal! LOL
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:52 am
Bosch,
The full moon is actually tomorrow and you’ll love this. It’s the Full Wolf Moon.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:52 am
Bosch-Hello by the way! According to Marc Thiessen and others,the info we garnered from Al Zarqwi(I hope I speeled his name right) helped thwart other attacks and did save American lives. I respect yours and USinUK’s view but just don’t agree with it. And as you know that what was hard for me to say! smile
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:53 am
“spelled” that is
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:54 am
Torture always works for Jack Bauer…
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:54 am
Whacks,
RW is the full moon expert (he’s a werewolf ya’ know). But interesting question, it’s like the “does a tree make noise” hypothesis.
RW,
I DO love it! Have fun and try not to rip out anyone’s throat – I hear they are doing a movie about you starring Benicio Del Toro.
Hef,
I love the word “thwart” – kudos for you today – and hello to you too!
Off to check on me mum who had surgery yesterday……..
I do love it!
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:55 am
USinUK,
OBL has taken to scolding the US for global warming. You’d think he’d appreciate a little heat in that cave, but it makes you wonder if he’s a Koz Kid. Sure would save him time with that tape recorder to just type out a diary.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:55 am
RW – 11:52 – you are a FONT of information!! I love all the names of the full moons – thanks for that!
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:55 am
O’Keefe Statement On Breitbart
Site: We Could Have Used ‘Different Approach’
Hey, pimpin’ ain’t easy…
Doesn’t he look like Tim McVeigh?
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/okeefe_posts_statement_on_phone_tampering_allegati.php?ref=fpa
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:56 am
Hef,
Misspelling spelled is classic. I don’t think it’s possible to misspell those al-whatever names though
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:57 am
RW –
“OBL has taken to scolding the US for global warming”
actually, considering what it’s done to countries in Africa, you think he’d be thanking us for helping him with recruiting (cuz, as you know, there’s no more fertile ground for terrorism than destitute countries)
Hef – “I respect yours and USinUK’s view but just don’t agree with it. And as you know that what was hard for me to say! smile”
and I understand your view, as well – I just can’t subscribe to it. I keep thiking to myself that this isn’t what my uncles fought the nazis for, you know?
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:57 am
USinUK@11:44,Thats not what Jack Bauer say’s and He’s got plenty of info the ol fashion way-smile
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
11:58 am
“If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?”
Yes
md
January 29th, 2010
11:58 am
“this isn’t what my uncles fought the nazis for”
I doubt they were fighting for the creation of a dependent nation either.
md
January 29th, 2010
12:00 pm
“If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?”
Please do not lawyer them up until after they have eaten their way through congress.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
12:00 pm
USinUK-I think when Russia exacted revenge on Germany it showed the world what consequences can be for ones actions,agree or disagree.
NJ
January 29th, 2010
12:02 pm
The difference between Republican economics and Democrats is that there is a false assertion with regards to “tax cuts” Republicans cannot assure that the wealthy will use their gains in ways that WILL create jobs and stimulate the economy. Democrat ideas about taxation make certain that the only way the rich can avoid being taxed at high rate IS to create jobs, start new businesses, etc.
This is why when Republicans give across the board tax cuts, there is almost no sign that the money is being used to start businesses, hire people etc. When top marginal tax rates are high, the rich rarely pay those taxes anyway. They shelter the money in ways that create jobs and businesses. When the top tax rates are low, they simply remove the money and start looking to invest in hot sectors of various markets, which drives the price of getting into those investments artificially higher, and eventually you get a market bubble.
Of course, Republicans look to blame people who took out subprime loans for the recent crash, but that is putting the cart before the horse. If the money to give those mortgages did not exist, not many subprime loans would have been given. It was the ever increasing need to create more and more mortgage backed securities that led to the need to give out more and more and more mortgages. When the prime market was saturated, the bankers started looking for new methods or using old ones in new way. As many subprime loans were given out under Clinton each year as under Bush, and these were profitable and default rates on them were low. The banks even made money on Clinton era subprimes. Just not the huge amounts that they managed to wrangle once Bush was in office.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:06 pm
Jay,
Care to comment on full moons or aliens invading washington being extended rights?
Oh, and more importantly, do you like fish tacos?
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
Somebody in the photo department needs to get a picture off the pickup truck that mounted a mustang. Talk about your hybrids.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
12:10 pm
errr…of the pickup truck, but I bet the Mustang would like the truck moved off too.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
12:13 pm
Hef – in a related-but-not way, we were having an interesting discussion today about immigration – I was (and am) still surprised that, after WWII, Germany was forced to open their boarders to immigrants and refugees but Japan wasn’t. They have VERY closed boarders … do you (or does anyone here) know why that is???
Hef
January 29th, 2010
12:18 pm
USinUK-Oh yeah,to this day winter is Russia’s favorite season! They cringe at the mention of Global Warming.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:18 pm
Reading today about more teacher furloughs…why doesn’t someone suggest that instead that 12-month staff (principals, board office, etc) get the same 2-month summer furlough teachers do. Wouldn’t that be more logical?
Did y’all know that DFCS sits under some 60+ layers of bureaucracy? And that it sits under DHR, as do restaurant safety groups? This is what I hate about government waste. These agencies are full of mid-level people who don’t do anything near as valuable as those at the bottom of the totem pole and yet make 3-4 times as much. Most corporations have learned the hard way that this does not work, because it eats away too much at revenue. When I was a teacher, I loathed the board office, they had 20-30 people there whose job it was to dictate how we were to use the curriculum, despite the fact that I could read the state guidelines quite clearly for myself!
Scout
January 29th, 2010
12:24 pm
md:
LOL !!!
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:26 pm
Looks like the Indians may be the first to outsource Customer Service jobs to a moon base now!
getalife
January 29th, 2010
12:27 pm
They can’t say he did not try to get them on board.
Good day for Obama.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
12:41 pm
Just 37 minutes to convict him of 1st degree murder.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-tiller-trial30-2010jan30,0,6251329.story
Enjoy your 25-to-life stay, Scott.
NJ
January 29th, 2010
12:45 pm
I love it when Republicans start calling for tax cuts as a means of creating jobs, who then start railing that liberals don’t know anything about economics or business.
Fact is that no jobs are ever created by giving the rich tax cuts. Those tax cuts never create a single jobs because job creation is totally unrelated to how big a tax cut you give to those who own a business or are wealthy investors. Business needs customers, not tax cuts, and giving tax cuts to the rich does not create a lot of customers. A rather common sense economist points this out:
Businesses hire the employees they need to hire to meet demand. If demand is low no amount of tax cuts can induce a business to hire people. Why hire and pay people to have them just sit around?
The way to get more customers into the businesses – i.e. to create demand – is to get more money circulating in the pockets of regular people. Cutting taxes for the already well-to-do doesn’t accomplish this. The way to do this is with government policies that increase wages and reduce working hours, like how raising the minimum wage and mandating 40-hour weeks and weekends off helped create America’s middle class. Helping regular people is good for business.
e fact is that the economy has always done better when the tax rates on the wealthy and corporations were highest. Just look it up. The reason for this is that our economic system when left to itself always becomes a low-age, everything-to-the-top system, because the wealthiest always game the system to get the most for themselves. The way to fix that is to apply regulations to prevent this, and high taxes at the top so the government can implement policies that raise the wages of the rest of the public. This is how we got out of the depression after the huge concentration of wealth that built up until 1929.
Businesses pay taxes on the profits (revenue minus expenses) — so the businesses that need help don’t need tax cuts, they need customers. It doesn’t make sense to try to help businesses that are not doing well by giving even more money to their profitable competitors. We should be using that money to instead help the businesses that need the help. Helping the already well-to-do is bad for business.
http://www.calitics.com/diary/10743/businesses-need-customers-not-tax-cuts
If tax cuts create jobs, the Bush Adminstration SHOULD have outperformed the Clinton Administration when it came to job creation. Instead the last administration became known for the “Jobless Recovery” and the lowest level of job creation since the end of WWII.
Overall the total Bush tax cuts will have cost the American taxpayer 2.48 trillion dollars over its ten year lifespan. They also add an additional 389 billion dollars in interest payments because the Bush tax cuts were deficit financed.
Then of course, 52.5 percent of those tax cuts went to the top five percent of wage earners.
When you break down the economic demographics, 84 percent of all Americans have incomes of less than 75,000 dollars a year. How did they fare under the Bush tax cuts? The largest portion of that 84 percent earn 40-50 thousand dollars a year. They got $380 out of the Bush Tax cuts (only for two years, because this part of the cuts were phased out in 2005). Those earning between 50-75 thousand a year got 553 dollars for the same two years. In both these economic groups we are looking a a tax cut that comes to less than one percent of their income. Basically 84 percent of Americans got a one percent tax cut or less. Overall the result was a 1.8 trillion dollar permanent tax cut for the wealthiest two percent of Americans, while the bottom 84 percent, the American working class got less than a one percent tax cut for two years.
Again, the reason that the Bush administration created few jobs, and was noted for its “Jobless recovery” was simple. No one hires people unless that job can pay for itself and it cannot pay for itself unless there are consumers consuming and when the lions share of the tax cuts go to the wealthy this does not happen.
With the Bush tax cuts, half of all recipients had their taxes cut by 100 dollars a year.
On the other hand millionaires got the highest percentage in tax cuts, about ten percent. The average tax cut for millionaires was 105,636.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:46 pm
Good decision on Roeder. If somebody believes abortion is bad, they shouldn’t do it. If they think it is sin, let God deal with that. He says judgment and vengeance is His…
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
12:46 pm
Just 37 minutes to convict him of 1st degree murder.
36 of that was probably spent on coffee and doughnuts.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:49 pm
Dang it, NJ, can you quit posting entire sections from other blogs here? That is just way too long, include a link and a teaser, and if we bite, we’ll comment.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
12:50 pm
NJ
Nice work – makes sense to me. It would also be beneficial to become mercantilists and rethink NAFTA.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
12:52 pm
Anyone else listening to the Obama – GOP exchange.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
12:54 pm
** can you quit posting entire sections from other blogs here?**
How do you know this? Just askin..
getalife
January 29th, 2010
12:54 pm
TaxPayer ,
Great stuff.
Cut the debt
January 29th, 2010
12:55 pm
The “lower taxes to create growth” argument has been around for centuries. The “raise taxes to cut deficits” argument has only been around since Obama took office. The low tax parade has brought us to this point of unnacceptably high unemployment.
Isn’t it time we try raising taxes for once instead of creating more deficits? If we pay off our debt, then congress won’t pass any legislation, cause the money won’t be there. Good.
No legislation. Heaven! It will take a long time to pay off the deficit so we can let congress adjourn for a decade.
Ah, it’s gonna be great, folks. No congress. No bills. No invoking cloture and filibusters. Nothing but paying off debt. No latent GOP homophobes denying their sexuality. Just the good feeling all americans will get when we pay off the probably-gay creditors in China and Japan.
Cut taxes and fail (gay). Raise taxes and succeed (straight).
Palin Straight Talk 2012: I’ll raise taxes so high they’ll crash right through the glass ceiling and then barefoot and pregnant will only get a woman cut and bloody feet.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
12:55 pm
Boehner Feigns Ignorance That His GOP Retreat Is Attended By Goldman Sachs, Other Corporate Lobbyists
The Tan Man doesnt’ have to feign ignorance – he IS ignorant.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/29/boehner-lies-lobbyists/
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
12:57 pm
Mick,
Google his third paragraph. Not claiming numbers are inaccurate or anything, but it is verbatim from a California blog. Again, I think NJ would be more effective with a baiting teaser, then get people to read the blog excerpt. Like jewcowboy likes to do with YouTube!
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
12:58 pm
NJ,
Glad to see you on board today. Keep those facts coming. We love them.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
1:00 pm
“Anyone else listening to the Obama – GOP exchange.”
Can’t…what is transpiring?
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:04 pm
** Keep those facts coming. We love them**
OK
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:05 pm
Good honest exchange going on right now about healthcare.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
1:09 pm
“Keep those facts coming. We love them.”
Will do! And you’re welcome!
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
TaxPayer,
You know this almost reminds me of sibling rivalries. The parents can talk to each child individually and they are quite agreeable, but get the siblings back together and it is right back to bickering. Despite President Obama’s best efforts, these two parties have little respect for each other, and I am not sure what it will take to get meaningful dialogue within the Capitol. Though the closer to deadlock it is, sometimes that seems to be the best scenario. If they can all agree that health care needs reform (they should) then it would be nice to see both sides attempt to move forward together.
getalife
January 29th, 2010
1:15 pm
Fox cuts it to inject opinion.
Still running on CNN and MSNBC.
Go figure.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:15 pm
Slow news day – tgif. Nice beach weather down this way.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:16 pm
President Obama and Tom Price exchange:
Price is such an idiot. I enjoyed every moment of the dressing down Obama gave him.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
1:17 pm
LOL…Obama couldnt give lil Sasha a dressing down let alone an adult…LOL.
getalife
January 29th, 2010
1:21 pm
Yeah, he said he was having fun and this is great.
He is an adult trying to talk to children.
Fox still not showing it while CNN and MSNBC are.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
1:23 pm
Taxpayer
[[Good honest exchange going on right now about healthcare.]]
Looks like Republicans just trumped Democrats on health care transparency. Republicans heeded the President’s call and Democrats rejected it. Amazing -
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:25 pm
“He is an adult trying to talk to children.”
Oh yes. Crying babies and whining toddlers.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:26 pm
Hensarling tried to lay the Bush Administration’s debt and deficit off on Obama. Obama slammed him for it.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
1:27 pm
I love this! Look who’s on the Global Warming bandwagon. Maybe he and Gore can do a speaking tour together. Hilarious.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584249,00.html?test=latestnews
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:27 pm
“He is an adult trying to talk to children.”
Oh yes. Lying third-graders.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:27 pm
Pretty nice job by the pres….no teleprompter included.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
No wonder Fox cut away if all Obama is going to do is make this absurd claim that he got a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit dumped in his lap. Even if you let him get away with this number he voted for every bit of the spending.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
Obama is hitting back on the big costs going forward — Medicare and Medicaid.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:30 pm
He’s talking about the Medicare Advantage issue, Paul. There’s your sign.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 29th, 2010
1:30 pm
Well, I’m just flabbergasted they convicted this guy of killing the abortion doctor. I mean, just because he says he done it don’t mean he done it.
Like the people on here like to say, just sayin’.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:31 pm
I expect one of the republicant morons to produce a gun at any time now.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:31 pm
UhOH. Scott Brown is also related to Obama. Birthers Unite!
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:31 pm
**he got a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit dumped in his lap.**
It’s a fact, afghanistan and iraq war costs were kept off the books as supplementals.
mm
January 29th, 2010
1:31 pm
Let’s just cut taxes and starve the government until it shrinks. Yep, that will solve everything, right wingnuts?
That has worked so well in the state and federal governments. Budget deficits everywhere.
Brilliant plan, Republicans. Between that and your tax breaks for sending jobs oveseas, you’ve destroyed our economy. How do you react? You blame the Dems. America will sentence you in November.
Jay
January 29th, 2010
1:32 pm
I only caught the end of Obama’s discourse with the House Republicans. But what I saw was remarkable. I don’t imagine anything like that has been done before; certainly George W. couldn’t have pulled it off…
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
1:32 pm
Mick,
That puts those costs on the debt, not the deficit.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
Obama really threw it right back at the imbeciles.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
Remarkable? To paraphrase, There’s Frank and his focus groups. I like Frank, we’ve had conversations about um um um conversations between Frank and me.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
I expect one of the republicant morons to produce a gun at any time now.
Another one of them gun control morans. She’d take my anti-tank weapon and the two machine guns I use for hunting and self-defense away from me in a second.
getalife
January 29th, 2010
1:35 pm
That was a trust building exercise.
Well done Obama.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:35 pm
“UhOH. Scott Brown is also related to Obama. Birthers Unite!”
I saw that. I believe Scott Brown was born in Kenya.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:36 pm
Great job, Mr. President!
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:36 pm
I think we need to start catapaulting the propaganda and start calling obama the new comeback kid.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:38 pm
“certainly George W. couldn’t have pulled it off…”
Pass that damn screen cleaner again!
Kentucky Jacket
January 29th, 2010
1:38 pm
The two things I see missing from this arguement are:
1) When we talk about lowering taxes or tax cuts, this does not mean we are going to decrease revenue. The point is to increase the tax base (more money being pumped into the system from the private sector), thus there is more money to be taxed. A 50% tax on a $500,000 tax base will produce less revenue than a 30% tax on a $1,000,000 tax base. The success or failure of the cut is whether or not is is successful in increasing the tax base to a point that the lower rate still results in higher revenues.
2) Money does not tie to education. It is the way the money is spent. Look at DC. For years, the top of spending on dollars/child, and consistently one of the worst systems in the country.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:39 pm
“I think we need to start catapaulting the propaganda and start calling obama the new comeback kid.”
Hear! Hear!
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:40 pm
**That puts those costs on the debt, not the deficit.**
Still slight of hand anyway you look at it.
Jay
January 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
Here’s a partial transcript:
http://greedheadswine.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/obama-talks-to-house-republicans-transcript-excerpt/
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
Kentucky Jacket
January 29th, 2010
1:38 pm
Nice job, however, the Pro-Tax Progressives grasp of simple arithmetic and logic is slippery at best. Most prefer to be on the Obama Pep Squad.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
“certainly George W. couldn’t have pulled it off…”
Wow. What insight.
Curious Observer
January 29th, 2010
1:46 pm
Money does not tie to education. It is the way the money is spent. Look at DC. For years, the top of spending on dollars/child, and consistently one of the worst systems in the country.
Dang right! Us people here in GA have the goodest schools in the country and we don’t hardly spend nothing on them. We even lay teachers off when the budget gets tight.
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
1:46 pm
Wow. That partial transcript was really hilarious.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
** top of spending on dollars/child, and consistently one of the worst systems in the country**
Thats a bogus talking point. Even if you privitized that system the only way you would get the results you wanted would be to give those students a stable home environment. The worst testing data comes from neighborhoods that are mired in poverty – you think there might be some kind of connection besides blaming the schools?
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
Here’s a partial transcript:
ok, I fell for it. Any others?
Paul
January 29th, 2010
1:50 pm
Taxpayer
Wow, I never realized the entire Medicare Advantage program wanted to cut was fraudulent, wasteful and full of abuse.
But that’s not what Democrats hung their hat on, is it? Maybe now they’ll get serious but their vote on the commission isn’t a hopeful sign.
Like I said earlier: Transparency: Republicans and Obama: 1 Democrats and Obama: 0
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
“Dang right! Us people here in GA have the goodest schools in the country and we don’t hardly spend nothing on them. We even lay teachers off when the budget gets tight.”
Them young’uns don’t need no edumacation anyways. They get too smart and big for their britches. Keep ‘em dumb. Dumb ‘em down just as dumb as you can!
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
sfd,
Yeap. Me too – Jay made a joke!
Paul
January 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
sfd
Of course!
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
1:53 pm
Wow, Jenifer, that was really funny.That’s quite a wit you have.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:53 pm
From my perspective, almost everyone there at the Obama-GOP exchange came out ahead with two notable exceptions, Price and Hensarling.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:53 pm
I loved the partial transcript!
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
“The worst testing data comes from neighborhoods that are mired in poverty”
Thru no fault of their own, Im sure. At any rate…that issue is never gonna change so lets just keep tossing money down the toilet….ya!
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
Wow, I never realized the entire Medicare Advantage program wanted to cut was fraudulent, wasteful and full of abuse
You learn something new every day now, dontcha. Well, at least that should be one of one’s daily goals.
Jay
January 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
And RW, you may not LIKE Obama repeating that 1.3 trillion number.
But it is fact nonetheless.
In its Jan. 8, 2009 report — almost two weeks before Obama even took office, the Congressional Budget Office stated the following:
“Under the rules governing CBO’s budget projections—
that is, an assumption that federal laws and policies
regarding spending and taxation remain unchanged—the
agency’s baseline reflects these key points:
B CBO projects that the deficit this year will total
$1.2 trillion, or 8.3 percent of GDP.”
Bubba
January 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
‘I loved the partial transcript!’
I bet you like Jerry Lewis movies too.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:56 pm
TaxPayer,
No way was the dumba$$ Price going to come off as anything except, well, dumb.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
1:56 pm
You best watch out Jay. I hear the Republicans are working on a new bunker buster.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
1:58 pm
“You best watch out Jay. I hear the Republicans are working on a new bunker buster.”
I’m ordering a case of screen cleaner today.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
2:00 pm
public education, defined by a former president. seems like it has worked pretty much as expected so far.
“We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class of necessity in every society, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks.”
— Woodrow Wilson
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
2:01 pm
Jay B,
If you read what I said rather than what you wanted see you’d notice that my focus was on the fact that Obama voted for every bit of it so it’s disingenuous to claim it blind sided him.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:02 pm
Jennifer,
If you order a case, I give you a didscount.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:02 pm
Taxpayer
Well, as I’ve said all along, I viewed the $N Billion fraud waste and abuse as a magic asterisk for CBO numbers to look good. I give Dems credit for targeting Advantage but not for taking the position that was all they had in mind – the numbers aren’t there. Dems may continue to take a hit on that as all many seniors remember is ‘you’re the guys who wanted to take my Medicare.” They’ve got some work to do to overcome that perception, which is why I think we saw two dozen Democratic senators vote against the President’s commission proposal.
This’ll be interesting, though. Cut through the chaff and there are areas where Obama’s more in line with Republicans than he is with significant elements of his own party.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
2:03 pm
**Thru no fault of their own, Im sure. At any rate…that issue is never gonna change so lets just keep tossing money down the toilet….ya!
I’m not assigning blame but what are we supposed to do – look the other way? I try not to envy those that were born on third base either.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
2:04 pm
I don’t imagine anything like that has been done before; certainly George W. couldn’t have pulled it off…
Well, maybe if had held the meeting on a flight deck, in a jump suit…
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
2:04 pm
“Jennifer,
If you order a case, I give you a didscount.”
Hey, thanks!
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
2:05 pm
As long as this Obama-come-lately character doesnt mess things up too too bad and I keep getting my quarterly stock dividend checks then things will probably be…well…ok.
Normal
January 29th, 2010
2:05 pm
I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired, so I’m starting music early, because I just don’t care…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDFKphodBQI&feature=fvw
md
January 29th, 2010
2:07 pm
Barry seems to be trying, but he needs to talk to both sides of the isle.
I see this as a bigger problem:
“Yes, we wrote the bill, we won the election.” – Pelosi.
That kind of talk is what brings DC to its knees. She needs to realize that it wasn’t her party alone that put her in power.
And for all you younguns posting here, the last time we had a balanced budget, we had a republican congress and a democratic president, just so you know.
It takes usually works better when they work together.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
2:07 pm
“I don’t imagine anything like that has been done before; certainly George W. couldn’t have pulled it off…
Well, maybe if had held the meeting on a flight deck, in a jump suit…”
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:08 pm
Normal,
That video starts out with a nice photo of RW!
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
2:09 pm
Bosch,
Did I tell you I go some new windshield wipers? Now every time I get in the car I’ve got two Bosch’s staring me in the face.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
Paul,
“This’ll be interesting, though. Cut through the chaff and there are areas where Obama’s more in line with Republicans than he is with significant elements of his own party.”
Right you are, the first party to actually recognize that this is essentially a centrist nation will be able to get a lot more done. But the extreme elements of both sides have the juicier sound bytes and dominate the sensationalist media. The guys (and ladies) who truly have the workable ideas get unnoticed…but this has been going on for a very long time. I wish I could hope it would change…
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
If you order a case, I give you a didscount.
Sorry Bosch but I finally just broke down and slid my whole PC inside one of those clear trash bags. They’re a lot cheaper and you swap it out when spewed upon and get double duty out of it by using it as a trash bag, like it was originally intended for. Oops. I hope my full and transparent disclosure does not have any negative impact on screen cleaner sales. My bad, dude.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:11 pm
RW,
No, you didn’t mention that – so now every time it rains you can think of me and how my fine products are saving you. How pleasant a thought.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
2:12 pm
Normal
January 29th, 2010
2:05 pm
YOU GO GIRL!! UH HUH!
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
2:13 pm
Did I tell you I go some new windshield wipers? Now every time I get in the car I’ve got two Bosch’s staring me in the face.
By the way, you cannot install both of them on the right. It takes a left and a right to work properly.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
2:13 pm
md,
“And for all you younguns posting here, the last time we had a balanced budget, we had a republican congress and a democratic president, just so you know.”
here is for hoping that history repeats itself again, I remember being quite impressed by Clinton at that point. Too bad his personal life came to dominate headlines, it was really blown out of proportions. Oops, probably not the best choice of words! Bygones…
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
2:14 pm
“Sorry Bosch but I finally just broke down and slid my whole PC inside one of those clear trash bags. They’re a lot cheaper and you swap it out when spewed upon and get double duty out of it by using it as a trash bag, like it was originally intended for. Oops. I hope my full and transparent disclosure does not have any negative impact on screen cleaner sales. My bad, dude.”
Hey, there’s a thought! Cancel my order, Bosch.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
2:16 pm
“By the way, you cannot install both of them on the right. It takes a left and a right to work properly.”
What does it mean if a certain German car has only one in the middle? I thought we took care of that problem about 65 years ago!
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:18 pm
Taxpayer,
No worries – as you can see, my income is supplmented quite well with sales of my other fine products.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:19 pm
Jennifer,
Well, FINE then.
md
January 29th, 2010
2:20 pm
” I remember being quite impressed by Clinton at that point.”
I was quite impressed by all, as they knew they needed to get it done and did. Now, its like Barry said, an ongoing election. They aren’t worried about us, they are worried about them.
Maybe its time for an amendment that puts equal numbers from each party in congress and if they don’t play nice then send them home.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
2:21 pm
“Jennifer,
Well, FINE then.”
Did I tell you I have your refrigerator? It works great! I’m saving up for the range.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:24 pm
Jennifer,
Oh, well okay then. Sorry for the tantrum – the range is great! I’m telling you – it runs like a dream.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:25 pm
hey getalife
You struck out with Prejean, maybe you’ll have better luck with Rielle?
“Bid To Quash John Edwards Sex Tape
Politician’s ex-mistress gets restraining order over “personal video” ”
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0129102rielle1.html
If there was any doubt Edwards was a couple bricks shy of a full load…..
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:26 pm
Paul @ 2:25 –
That’s just plain ewwwwwww.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:29 pm
“House Democrats don’t trust Senate Democrats, House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said late this week….
“”I think what has happened to us is that Democrats have been defined by what the public sees going on in the Senate,” Clyburn said. “People keep acting as if we don’t exist. The House members passed a comprehensive healthcare bill that was very popular with the American people .”"
House Democratic leadership still doesn’t get it.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/78719-clyburn-house-dems-do-not-trust-the-senate
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
2:29 pm
Did y’all hear that atheists are upset that the Postal Service will soon have a Mother Teresa stamp out?
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:32 pm
Bosch
No kidding. Even reading that I wanted to go bathe in bleach.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:33 pm
Bosch
SmokingGun has a copy they claim is the real deal. As proof they point to the hairdresser who keeps popping on camera with a can of hair spray -
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:34 pm
Paul,
Can I borrow the bleach to burn that image out of my brain?
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
2:35 pm
Jenifer, Tom Price has not yet posted praises to himself on his facebook page for today’s question, but the sycophants are already on it.
getalife
January 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
“You struck out with Prejean, maybe you’ll have better luck with Rielle?”
Saw her on TMZ with her tit hanging out.
She’s a freak!
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
Bosch
Sure! I’ll even FedEx ya’ some -
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:40 pm
getalife
I just don’t understand what happens to some people when they get that high up the ladder.
I read an account of Stephanopoulos that ratcheted up my respect meter. Seems when he first saw Monica making the rounds he called over an assistant and all he said was “keep that woman away from me.”
getalife
January 29th, 2010
2:40 pm
Well, if I had a blond following me with a video camera, they would probably be a sex tape if she is willing.
Just sayin.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
2:45 pm
“Did y’all hear that atheists are upset that the Postal Service will soon have a Mother Teresa stamp out?”
Ive heard Podiatrists are also a upset.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:46 pm
Paul,
I have to pick myself off up the floor first – I don’t think I can move.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
2:46 pm
BOSCH
MORE BLEACH!!!
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
2:49 pm
Well, looky there, them Blog Gods done gone and switch mine and Paul’s comments!
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
2:51 pm
Sometimes I feel as though I need to read the posts in reverse.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
2:57 pm
**Sometimes I feel as though I need to read the posts in reverse.**
At least you get it.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
md
Bill Clinton worked well with a republican congress and what did he get for it? Impeached.
Lesson learned.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
**Sometimes I feel as though I need to read the posts in reverse.**
You know what happens when you do that?
Republicans admit the Iraq war was wrong, Democrats say W really wasn’t the worst president, and sorry Paul but you are dead!
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
Mick @ 2:59,
Clinton got impeached (I thought it was stupid, still do) over his deceitful denial of extra-curricular activities. I always thought he should just have come clean. D’oh, another poor choice of words!
Luckily they did not have enough power to actually remove him from office.
Number1ninja
January 29th, 2010
3:06 pm
Clinton didn’t lie, the republicans trying to nail him were too stupid to ask the right questions so Slick Willy did his thing and laughed all the way home. Serves them right for wasting everybody’s time and money.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
3:07 pm
And Bill Clinton led an effort to impeach Newt Gingrich… .
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
3:07 pm
If you’re interested in an actual transcript of the President-GOP get-together:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/obama-speeches/speech/173/
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
Whacks,
I always thought Clinton should have gone, “Yeah, I did her – what’s it to ya? Yeah, it was, eh, okay, ya’ wanna know all the details?” Ya’ know, kind of the Silvio Berlusconi route.
getalife
January 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
Fox cut it off early because Obama was refuting their talking points.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
Bosch,
I think we found out more about it than we really wanted to anyway. ewwww
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
3:15 pm
Perhaps a little Reflection.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
Whacks Eloquent
No sense goin down that road again.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
3:18 pm
“Luckily they did not have enough power to actually remove him from office”
They had the power, what they didn’t have was evidence of a “crime” bad enough to meet the legal requirement for a guilty verdict.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
3:20 pm
Obama Calls Out GOP Hypocrisy For ‘Going To Ribbon Cuttings For The Same Projects That You Voted Against.’
The only grown up in the room spanked the entire crowd of wingnuts.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/29/obama-ribbon-cutting/
Mick
January 29th, 2010
3:24 pm
Notice how it all worked out in the end? Johnson impeached, Nixon would have been impeached, Cinton impeached, three times in history. W should have been impeached but there was no way anybody could put up with back to back impeachment. Besides, pelosi who the repubs hate like no tomorrow said its off the table – good grief.
md
January 29th, 2010
3:37 pm
“Bill Clinton worked well with a republican congress and what did he get for it? Impeached.”
Sorry Mick, I’m a believer in consequences – not excuses.
Bill should have put his hand in the air and said “I did it” and took his lumps, or better yet don’t do it at all. I’ll not lay blame on another party for the actions of others.
Midori
January 29th, 2010
3:41 pm
winter storm headed this way!!
Kamchak
January 29th, 2010
3:48 pm
Midori
Already got an inch on the deck.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
3:51 pm
yeah I am actually contemplating listening to Hannity this afternoon, so that I can get kirk mellish’s updates…
Midori
January 29th, 2010
3:59 pm
wow, Kammie!! an inch??