Georgia, Oregon become economic test case
Ten years from now, it’ll be fascinating to look back and see who turned out to be right.
Across the country, falling tax revenues are forcing deep cuts in state budgets. Under Gov. Sonny Perdue’s proposed budget here in Georgia, for example, “per student state spending on k-12 education and the university system will fall to their lowest levels in a decade” after inflation, the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute reports.
Some states have tried to soften such blows with strategic tax increases that will raise a total of $24 billion in new revenue, according to the National Governors Association. But at a press conference Thursday, Georgia legislative leaders announced plans to slash rather than raise state revenue by cutting business fees and taxes and the state capital gains tax.
Asked about the impact on an already ravaged state treasury, state Rep. Tom Graves turned the question around: “We don’t see this as a cost to the state, we see this as a savings to the taxpayer.”
In Oregon, on the other hand, leaders are taking the exact opposite approach. They’ve already cut spending significantly, but this week, Oregon voters easily approved ballot measures that will increase taxes on business and on households with incomes higher than $250,000. The new revenue will close the remaining budget gap of $727 million and fend off further cuts in education and other public services.
That sets up an interesting test case. While Oregon raises taxes to preserve its public infrastructure and services, Georgia believes that it can stimulate a boom by offering investors a cheaper business environment. “We’re going to be the economic beacon and leader for the rest of the country” in recovering from this recession, Graves confidently predicted.
Today, median household incomes in Georgia ($50,861) and Oregon ($50,169) are quite similar. They start from a similar base on taxes as well, since Oregon voters have a tradition of fiscal conservatism equal to that of Georgia. In 2005, Oregon ranked 41st in per capita state taxes ($1,791) while Georgia ranked 42nd ($1,726), according to the Census Bureau. So it will be interesting to see where they stand in a decade.
Given Georgia’s already low tax structure and the condition of the national economy, I personally have a hard time believing that state taxes have been a significant hurdle to investment here. Dropping from 42nd to 44th or 45th in the tax rankings doesn’t seem like it will accomplish much except force more furloughs of teachers, but I guess we’ll wait and see.
This won’t be the first time that Georgia and Oregon have set themselves up as test cases. Beginning 15 to 20 years ago, the two states also took starkly divergent approaches to growth in their major urban areas.
Under Oregon law, the three-county Portland metro area was given the power to tax itself as a region for transportation. It has used that authority to commit to mass transit, investing in light rail, trolley lines and more recently commuter rail. That’s a stark contrast to the Georgia strategy, which has relied almost exclusively on highways and denied metro Atlanta the right to act as a region.
Wendell Cox, a highway advocate and a favorite transportation consultant for Georgia conservatives, argued in the Atlanta Constitution back in 1999 that the Georgia model would prevail. In fact, he predicted, “traffic congestion in Portland is likely to be worse than it is in Los Angeles by 2015.”
Well, it’s not 2015 yet. But when Cox wrote those words, Portland was 18th worst in the country in rush-hour delays per traveler; by 2007, it improved to 34th. Meanwhile, Los Angeles stayed at number one and Atlanta stayed at number three.
In the latest rankings, Portland has also improved significantly in the time-travel index, considered a standard measure of congestion. Again, Los Angeles and Atlanta didn’t budge.
Those trends have consequences on the quality of life a region can offer, a factor that in the modern world often has more impact on growth than low taxes. Quality of life has an especially strong appeal to the young college-educated people that high-paying employers need to prosper and innovate.
From 1995-2000, according to the Census Bureau, Atlanta was the fourth most attractive destination for that desired demographic. Portland was fifth.
Late last year, the Wall Street Journal took an updated look at what it called “the next hot youth magnets.” Portland was fourth; Atlanta didn’t make the list, and was mentioned only as another formerly ascendant Sun Belt city now in eclipse.
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466 comments Add your comment
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:41 am
I haven’t heard of stats.
We’ve been on a fish taco hunt for a couple of months – trying to find the best one. I keep hearing good things about Taquieria del Sol so might have to hit that next.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:41 am
USinUK
Spkr Pelosi said “they lied” in response to charges she was briefed on waterboarding but did nothing to stop it. Her response doesn’t make a lot of sense – what she’s saying is the CIA said the were planning/did do waterboarding, but they lied, which means they weren’t planning/didn’t do waterboarding.
I suppose that makes sense inside the Beltway, but….
getalife
January 29th, 2010
10:42 am
Economy soars 5.7 percent in 4th quarter, fastest in 6 years.
Recession over.
The banks should start lending in alternative energy for jobs.
Finally, some good news.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Finn,
Personally I like the fish tacos at La Parrilla, and they are all over metro here. What’s been your fave so far?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Paul – no, what she said was that they didn’t tell her what they were doing – they said that they did.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
Whacks – fish tacos … omg, them’s good food!
Joey
January 29th, 2010
10:44 am
It is my understanding that the Urban Mobility Report (google “time-travel index) of typical commute times measures vehicle commutes and does not include Public Transit Commutes. A reason for this could be that any expert in commute times, or anyone who has used both, is fully aware that Public Transit Commutes take significantly more time than personal velhicle commutes. This is why the term “Rapid Transit” is no longer in vogue.
Regarding metro Atlanta and Public Transit, none of the local governments, including ARC, GRTA, DOT are willing to reduce the availability of parking in order to get people out of their cars. They instead want to pretend that making personal-vehicle commute more expensive (higher gas prices and higher parking fees) will change behavior. This will not work for any extended period.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
“Sorry to go back to this, but when has Earth had a relatively stable environment?”
When did I say it did? I was using a “relatively stable environment” as an EXAMPLE.
” Look at almost any variable, including temperature, outside of a very short-term period, and you will see wild fluctuations from any number of causes. Droughts, floods, hurricanes, and even prevailing wind patterns all are in cycles of varying lengths and intensity.”
Global temperature is an average, not a specific example.
“Should we be concerned about human-made pollution? Sure, ecological damage is provable. But the problem we have is trusting the doomsday models, or even assuming that only one factor is responsible for the change in temperature. When our meteorological models cannot even pinpoint the rain/snow line for North Georgia tonight, what makes you think we should trust the results of such models on a variable we do not fully understand? Carbon dioxide is not exactly a new variable, it was the original atmospheric gas. ”
How many people were around when carbon dioxide was the “original atmospheric gas”?
“Dr. Gray’s hurricane model is highly regarded as the most accurate, and he has good results. Yet some years he has been way off, and has then discovered additional variables and added them in for the next run. We should work to reduce pollution, and turn to greener energy sources. But let’s use discretion on jumping to extreme apocalyptic scenarios”
If the end result is better conservation of resources and a reduction of greenhouse gasses, when what does it matter if you are using a “doomsday” scenario or not?
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
USinUK-I think your going to find out that Ms Pelosi did in fact know.There’s a book out Courting Disaster:How the CIA kept America Safe and How Obama is Inviting the Next Attack, by Marc Thiessen. I heard an interview with him this am where he states and writes in his book that she was involved/informed. He also wrote that she help shoot down a covert operation intended to keep the Iran out of the elections in Iraq.Have’nt read the book yet but plan on picking up a copy.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
“I love this lie, courtesy of Boner.”
I thought he, Boner and U2 were quite the liberals.
professional skeptic
January 29th, 2010
10:45 am
Rollergirl: And I’m sure that taxpayers in big-city Portland have funded rural state roads that they never drive on.
Sounds eerily familiar…
Also, Matilda @ 10:18: very well said. Hire a bunch of Georgia Conservatives to run government, they Go Fish, play golf, run around while they think their wives aren’t looking…. all the while letting the state go to hell in a handcart.
And they wonder what’s wrong with government?
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:47 am
“The banks should start lending in alternative energy for jobs.”
I like that idea, but can we stop the demonization of nuclear? I’d really like to see a new plant built before Obama leaves office, and I really want energy independence, especially for non-transportation. Transportation fuel will be trickier, but I like the idea of fuel cells. Hope that keeps going forward too.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:48 am
“They instead want to pretend that making personal-vehicle commute more expensive (higher gas prices and higher parking fees) will change behavior. This will not work for any extended period.”
You can pry my car keys from my cold dead hands.
jconservative
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Kia built their new Georgia down on the Alabama border because there are not enough skilled workers in Georgia to staff the plant. Most of the employees will come over the state line from Alabama. Yet Georgia
gave away the store to get the plant.
ROLLERGIRL
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Finn, I guess there can be cmmon ground between everyone because I just agreed with ya on Taqueria del sol..best talapia tacos in town.
The food does seem to vary by location, the best seeming to be the original in the pretentiously bohemia (please look how green I am, I spent a lot on my “100% organic” flashing neon sign)section of decatur…
Jess
January 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Jay,
So you are saying that taxes are the only reason which could account for one state prospering more than another. If in ten years Oregon has higher index numbers than Georgia it will be proof that higher taxes breed prosperity. I think this is referred to as the Michigan model.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:50 am
Hef –
“I heard an interview with him this am where he states and writes in his book that she was involved/informed.”
oh, well, then … that totally convinces me. thanksforthat.
like I said, the CIA admitted to lying to and misleading Congress not just once but several times in the past, so, pardon me, but I do not believe for one second that they admitted to ANYone in Congress that they were waterboarding
md
January 29th, 2010
10:51 am
“no, what she said was that they didn’t tell her what they were doing – they said that they did.”
What a choice, believe the nations spooks or a career politician. I’ll back the working man – the spooks.
FinnMcCool
January 29th, 2010
10:51 am
best fish tacos so far were from a hole in the wall Mexican joint beside a gas station at Hamilton Mill and I-85. I don’t recall the name of the place.
The ones we make are good, too – as long as we can get cod at the H Mart!
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
doggone,
Most scientists who have researched formation of the earth have come to the conclusion that the gas started as carbon dioxide. Plus the atmosphere of Mars and Venus, our neighboring planets, are 95-95% CO2, so it is logical we started that way too. If you follow standard scientific models, we are made from the same “junk” as those planets, but our position from the Sun is special, and allowed the right mixture for massive changes.
“If the end result is better conservation of resources and a reduction of greenhouse gasses, when what does it matter if you are using a “doomsday” scenario or not?”
The scenario is not the problem, it is the knee-jerk things that wackos propose doing as a result of it. Sane people suggest reducing population, power hungry politicians suggest using it as worldwide wealth redistribution.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
USinUK-He also states “waterboarding” was used 3 times! times on 3 people,thats out many thousands of held captives. He also states that we use the same practice on our own inlisted people as part of they’re training, have’nt heard any complaints as of yet of torture.
Mick
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
**You now have your most credible ally, Osama bin Laden**
Don’t fall for this pr stunt – bin laden is most likely long ago six feet under.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
As a native Oregonian (born and raised in Portland) every time I return home I see new and improved changes to the city. The infrastructure has impressiveley changed, the downtown area, and the waterfront are classic examples of good city planning, and the public transportation is second to none. Years ago I remember Tom McCall, at that time governor had a billboard erected which stated
‘Please have a pleasant stay while in the great state of Oregon, but don’t stay!
If I had not been transferred here, I’d still live in Oregon, people don’t leave on their own volition!
Oregon also does not have a state sales tax, so people from Washington, California, and Idaho come to shop bringing revenue to the shops, and stores!
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:54 am
md – ” I’ll back the working man – the spooks”
you go right ahead and back the people who admitted lying to Congress.
I, however, won’t.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
10:55 am
USinUK
Do we have to go over this again? The documentation was clear – she knew what they were planning, did nothing, then one of her senior staffers reported they were waterboarding and he reported back to her. She was in an untenable situation and took a dishonorable way out. What’s most telling to me is there was zero followup by her after it all died down on her charge CIA employees committed felonies.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
10:56 am
“that the gas started as carbon dioxide”
How many people were around then?
“Sane people suggest reducing population, power hungry politicians suggest using it as worldwide wealth redistribution.”
That’s a new one to ME. How about some concrete examples?
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
10:57 am
Anyone know the status of cutting off the $400 Billion in Medicare fraud Democrats identified in the health reform savings?
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/health_care/HScomparison.pdf
page 5 and 6 will get you started.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
10:52 am
Thats great!! Now, back to our studio for this commercial message.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
Hef –
“He also states that we use the same practice on our own inlisted people as part of they’re training, have’nt heard any complaints as of yet of torture.”
you really want to dredge this load of bollocks back up? fine.
do you REALLY want to compare the experience of someone who is being “trained” by his own military unit (e.g., people who aren’t out to kill him) to someone who is a PRISONER being held by people who were just recently shooting at him??? seriously?? do you REALLY want to play those particular cards?
as for the “only used 3 times” … let’s just say that’s true … so, if you “only” break international law 3 times that’s okay??? if a sovereign army was holding a bunch of marines prisoner and broke international law with them “only” 3 times, that would be okay with you???
christ, talk about the saddest excuse of an argument I’ve ever heard.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
USinUK-There’s the difference,you believe someone that lie’s to our face’s daily as opposed to CIA that is attempting to protect us from harms way. I choose the latter.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
10:59 am
**You now have your most credible ally, Osama bin Laden**
“Don’t fall for this pr stunt – bin laden is most likely long ago six feet under”
Somebody forgot to tell John McCain!
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:00 am
sfd
Thanks, but that was the reconciliation, and on the one area – Advantage – it said Senate didn’t want to take any action.
So, the short answer is “nothing’s in the works to cut out $400 billion in fraud, waste and abuse.
Which brings up another point – a couple dozen Democrats voted against the commission for savings because they didn’t want to have to take votes on reducing Medicare. Yet (as Jay put it) Democrats are already on record as wanting to cut $400 bil. Then again, maybe the ‘no’ Dems were the ones who thought it was nonsense to begin with.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:00 am
Paul –
“The documentation was clear – she knew what they were planning, did nothing, then one of her senior staffers reported they were waterboarding and he reported back to her”
considering there IS no documentation, I don’t see how you can say that. no notes can be taken in or after the briefings.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
shorter Hef (10:59) – I choose to believe people who admit to frequently lying to the people who rely on them for intel rather than a Democrat (especially a female one who is in charge – I mean, who the hell does she think she is telling menfolk what to do?!)
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
If you want a blog/forum that sticks only to the main subject…go find one. This isn’t it. I’m sure there are PLENTY of them out there. Just look. Start now.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:01 am
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
10:57 am
I provided a link to that (and other documents) in the past myself but there was no apparent interest from anyone regarding its content.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:02 am
Jay, it never ceases to amaze me….You start out with a topic (and this one affects everyone living in Georgia) and soon the blog turns into an afternoon cooking school, or today we are off on an expedition to find a fish taco. What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:03 am
“worldwide wealth redistribution.”
Via Climate Change and Carbon Credits. Thats the bottom line.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
USinUK-I understand your argument but i don’t agree with it. If the process garners information that saves human lives,US lives then yes I support it. Are you telling me if CIA could gather info that might save the life of friend or god forbid a loved one,you would choose to not? To me thats sad.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
show of hands for fish tacos …
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:04 am
USinUK
Have you done any research of relevant documentation or are you going with what you think most likely?
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
Outhouse GoKart … I believe the original intent of this thread was to discuss Georgia, and Oregon’s differing approach to taxes.
I guess you didn’t get the memo.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
I provided a link to that (and other documents) in the past myself
That was you? thanks. I had the PDF around, but I had to search for the link.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
Hef –
“Are you telling me if CIA could gather info that might save the life of friend or god forbid a loved one,you would choose to not? To me thats sad.”
you know all those spooks you say you support? they all say torture doesn’t work. me, I figure they know of which they speak a helluva lot better than you armchair intel specialists.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
“we are off on an expedition to find a fish taco. What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
A clean fish taco?
The nearest Capt D’s?
Sushi Yoshi?
Hot Tuna?
Tuna Helper?
Gourmet Fish Sticks?
BOGO at the local Kroger on FrankenBerry cereal?
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:06 am
USinUK
First Google hit -
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/intelligence-re.html
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
Oh I got holmes…Ive already contributed my 2 cents.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?
Well! I take it you’ve never had a Georgia-grown-catfish taco before. They’re all the rage. A real revenue generator, plus tax.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
USinUK-Really I could care less if she’s a female or not.She is a female,right? lol
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:07 am
A Reminder About That Republican HCR Plan
The graphic is very graphic. republicants are the party of NO.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/29/831668/-A-Reminder-about-that-Republican-HCR-Plan
citizen
January 29th, 2010
11:08 am
I didn’t get to hear all of Congressman Waxman’s defense of passing the Health Insurance Reform Bill, but the gist of his remarks were ‘ Democrats should not fear a backlash at re-election time because the majority of people in their districts would benefit from this health insurance reform package because they are uninsured.’ Does that mean Democrats=uninsured? Am I to take away from this that Independents and Republicans are employed, pay the taxes and are able to afford health insurance benefits? We will always take care of the truly poor but to try to make us take care of the individuals who won’t try to better themselves is outrageous.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:09 am
Paul – I’m going by what was reported as standard security procedures for congressional briefings
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
USinUK-”they all say torture does’nt work”? Really they ALL say that or ones that support your argument?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
Hef – “USinUK-Really I could care less if she’s a female or not.She is a female,right? lol”
you know, your side would have a lot more credibility on that if you guys didn’t always focus on her looks (much in the same way you focus on Hillary’s)
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2010
11:10 am
If I had not been transferred here, I’d still live in Oregon, people don’t leave on their own volition!
Conversely, the Portland area is on my short list of places I’d relocate to in a heartbeat if/when the opportunity arises. I do love decent sized chunks of Georgia, but sometimes Teh Stoopit here, it burns.
And as a parent, Jay’s point earlier about our state’s education is very troubling; I know a lot of a kid’s prowess as a student has to do with what you do to augment their learning and we do that already, but I do wonder if my kid will, ultimately, be tagged as unhireable outside of this state despite our efforts. There’s time for the next governor to start to turn it around, but he/she best get moving.
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:11 am
“A real revenue generator, plus tax.”
LOL!
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:11 am
Do we have to go over this again?
Paul,
Once a storyline forms in the left wing echo chamber it never changes among hardcore leftists and even though USinUK may be a lovable hardcore leftist she’s a hardcore leftist nonetheless. You could show a video of Nancy Pelosi attending an actual waterboarding of KSM and you wouldn’t break through, but I admire your perseverance.
/Did you know if you leave the l off of lovable one of the spell check offerings is microwavable?
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:12 am
Paul – wow, so THEY said they told her and THAT’S the evidence. yep. I’m convinced.
eagle scout
January 29th, 2010
11:13 am
Doggone/GA ..Didn’t mean to upset you.
You’re right, but instead of finding another blog … I do have better ways
to squander my time.
See ya…………………….
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:14 am
“I do love decent sized chunks of Georgia, but sometimes Teh Stoopit here, it burns.”
That it does.
thomas
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
Best superbowl food is buffaloed chicken tenders! Fry them the same way then just spin them in any variety of sauces. You get the burn of hot wings, but some actual food. Plus not as messy, with all of the heartburn when mixed with a good dark beer.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
Hef –
“Really they ALL say that or ones that support your argument?”
I’m sorry – just the ones from the Army, the FBI and the CIA … I’m sure there are some in Saudi Arabia who think that it does …
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Top-Interrogation-Experts-by-George-Washington-090423-933.html
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
USinUK-U never answered my 11:04,I’m curious what would be your answer? And I can’t/won’t speak for the rest of my brethern,I don’t care what gender anyone on the left is. I disagree with them all equally.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:15 am
According to Colbert, a real reporter, the Republican’s plan to save the world is contained on about nine pages, single-sided and double-spaced with about fifty percent of each page consumed by margins and pretty graphics. Let’s see. Thet leaves just enough room for their key messages. “Drill This,” “How do you spell NO,” “I said Tort Reform so leave our Gold Dome Tarts alone,” and “We don’t need no steenking taxes.”
md
January 29th, 2010
11:16 am
“you go right ahead and back the people who admitted lying to Congress.”
You referring to the spooks or the politicians????
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:16 am
RW-I always said USinUK was microwavable! smile
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:17 am
USinUK
Well, I suppose ABC news has an inside track?
Bottom line: it was used to illustrate how Spkr Pelosi will make charges, assertions, then there’s zip followup, whether it’s accusing career federal employees of felonies or telling us about fraud, waste and abuse in programs and how they’re going to fix it.
RW-(the original)
Microwavable? Does that mean you could just eat her up?
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:17 am
I guess I should make an on topic comment too before I head to the forest. Whenever I see a piece like this that tells me one more cut in government spending will take away all our teachers, fire, I know it’s just the left trying to play on people’s fears. They never once talk about all the dead weight that could be cut first because they don’t ever want government reined in so they go right to the kids education and your protection.
I work behind the scenes in federal and state government offices all the time and the waste is incredible. Anybody that states that any further cuts would have to come straight from the classroom or first responders is naive or lying.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
“Doggone/GA ..Didn’t mean to upset you”
Why would you think I’m upset? I was just trying to help you out, since you don’t seem happy here. Strikes me it’s YOU that’s upset.
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
USinUK
One of the things I like about you is you haven’t (until now) asked people to do research for you -
Outhouse GoKart
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:14 am
Well if all you haters and player haters would leave then perhaps the quality of life would improve for us who chose to remain.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:18 am
Paul,
I guess it means my spell checker thinks she’s a tasty treat.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:19 am
“What’s more important a clean, efficiently run state or a fish taco?”
One is a mere pipe dream, and the other is yummy!
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:19 am
I vote fish tacos.
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:21 am
geez, remove an all and add in some police in the second sentence of that 11:17. Maybe I’ll have another cup of coffee before that forest excursion.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
11:21 am
Much of the fourth-quarter expansion was due to government stimulus and to companies boosting output to restock supplies depleted by the recession. Such inventory restocking boosts production not only at manufacturers but also at their suppliers. That ripple effect can help boost an entire chain of related industries.
In the meantime, the National Bureau of Economic Research, the group based in Cambridge, Mass., that determines the start and end of recessions, has said nothing about the latest one having ended.
We haven’t gooten the bill yet for obozo’s little splurge.
eewwwww
Paul
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK
What I think is really, really, really cool about the Obama Administration is, they know torture never, ever, not once works and as threads here have shown, what works really well for gaining all sorts of intel is forming relationships, building trust, showing confidence and keeping it on a personal level.
That always seemed like such a long, time-consuming, drawn-out process to me, but WOW! The Obama Administration showed us with the Christmas bomber that they can do that whole process and drain the subject dry of all possible intelligence leads…
in just 50 minutes!!! Those guys are really, really good!
Jimmy62
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
Portland is a planned city and their metro area is far smaller than Atlanta’s in both population and geopgraphy. And they don’t have nearly as many hills and valleys to deal with. Apples and oranges.
Whacks Eloquent
January 29th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK,
Can you find fish tacos back across the pond? I like fish & chips ok, but that’s not even close.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:24 am
Hef,
If I may interupt here, but isn’t the whole “if you could find evidence that would save someone you love from being blown to bits in a terrorist attack- so therefore we must torture” argument kind of lame? I mean, isn’t the answer to that question OBVIOUSLY “yes?’
I mean, everyone whose died in a terrorist attack had someone who loved them (hopefully) – let’s look at this big picture instead of interjecting hyperbole.
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
RW and Hef – microwavable? criminey, I don’t even do a tanning bed!
Hef – my 11:06 WAS in response to your question – no, I don’t support torture because the people who are in the intel business say it doesn’t work. and, much like capital punishment, what if it’s done on someone who really DOESN’T know anything (which has been the case in the recent past) – I’m sorry, but it makes us no better than those we call our enemies.
so, no, I don’t support torture. not in my name. we’re supposed to be better than that.
thomas
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
RW,
You are correct about waste.
I know its bad to speak badly of anything education….. but.
Do some research and you will find that a near majority of PELL grant reciepients, recieve well over tuition and other asscoiated cost of ed. In reality they use it to pay for bills, or cable, or their phone. Some use it for spending money(drinking money).
Being that small community colleges give out over 1 million of financial aide each year, I am sure there is a mass amount that could be saved through going through this FAFSA program with that scalpel of Obama’s for sure. Since I assure you that many of these students only go to school for the PELL grant, it is their single and only source of income.
If over a million at each community college think how much could be saved from all community colleges and all 4yr schools.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:26 am
AND to start off our music day cuz I might be gone later – here’s Bosch’s new number one favorite song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog
NJ
January 29th, 2010
11:27 am
Even conservative economists who are not ideologues have recommended raising taxes to deal with recessions. One of the most conservative Comptroller Generals of the United States in history, recommended them to George HW Bush after Reagan left office. Bush refused. And the recession went on. This same guy was still Comptroller General when Clinton took office, Clinton followed his recommendations to the letter, and the recession ended, the economy took off. Charles Bowsher gave Bush a terrible report about the Reagan years. Basically he said that Reagan virtually ruined the domestic economy. That was the first time in history that a Comptroller General ever issued a report critical of any presidential administration.
No matter how you slice it, tax cuts that are not targeted, always end up producing speculative market bubbles, because there is only so much money that a person spend in the consumer markets. Once that point is reached, the speculation begins.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 29th, 2010
11:28 am
LOU BRIEN, MARKET STRATEGIST, DRW TRADING GROUP, CHICAGO:
“Inventory accumulation was the key to the number. Personal consumption is more moderate when you take out the inventory, and that throws into question the sustainability of any kind of growth, because personal consumption is the key.
ROBERT MACINTOSH, CHIEF ECONOMIST, EATON VANCE CORP,
BOSTON:
“I doubt it will stay this high once they revise it twice.”
Growth was boosted by a sharp slowdown in the pace of inventory liquidation, a factor that could mask the strength of the economic recovery from the longest and deepest downturn since the Great Depression.-Financial Post
Just sayin….
USinUK
January 29th, 2010
11:29 am
Whacks – actually, we have a couple of good Mexican places here in London – not many, but a few. There’s a place called Wahaca near Covent Garden – killer south-of-the-boarder food!! including fish tacos.
TaxPayer
January 29th, 2010
11:30 am
Leave it to Republicans to whine about spending too much while offering more tax cuts to fix that whine. Not to worry though. Once they make it legal for 15 year olds to work in table dance clubs, as long as they do not serve alcohol, the revenue stream from the Gold Dome alone will wipe out our deficit. Just think what they could do with Sunday alcohol sales in combination with other changes. Child labor laws are just an impediment to growth.
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:30 am
Off Topic Question:
If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Scout,
To be honest, if that happened, I don’t think anyone would be concerned about that.
jewcowboy
January 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Scout,
“If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive would they have Constitutional rights?”
I think this video will answer that question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAqtoAuDlo
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:36 am
Jewcowboy!
Oh, I love Blondid! Debbie Harry ? Meow!!! That song is so groovy.
Hef
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
USinUK & Bosch-I accept your responses,I don’t agree though. This would not have to be just a terrorists situation,it could be a child abduction for example and my response would be the same. God HELP anyone that would harm my EXTREMELY BEAUTIFULL WIFE to be,her daughter,or any of my siblings. I believe that our country/society has become way to PC,that me.
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
Headline: “On the eve of the fullest moon of the year, NASA scientists are told they will no longer be able to visit, as Obama eliminates space program’s manned moon missions.”
Question: Has a black man ever been to the moon? Maybe Obama would like to go?
Matilda
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
If alien green Martians landed in Washington, D.C. and started eating people alive, would the rich white men still claim that the best course of action is to cut taxes for themselves and their contributors?
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:37 am
jewcowboy,
Make that Blondie – with an ‘e.’
RW-(the original)
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
thomas,
I don’t doubt that there’s enormous waste in education spending, primarily in the area of distributing that money, but my point is that we could achieve tremendous savings without ever touching education, fire, or police services. The left just uses those to scare you into thinking there are no other cuts to be made. Any trained journalist worth his or her salt knows this and a piece like this one is nothing more than stoking fear.
Bosch
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
Hef,
I don’t think those situations are a matter of thinking PC or not – it’s just a matter of letting your own emotions determine policy – which, unfortunately we can’t do. I’m with you – I’d physically rip off someone’s head given the chance if they hurt a member of my family – I think anyone would.
Jenifer
January 29th, 2010
11:39 am
“Once they make it legal for 15 year olds to work in table dance clubs, as long as they do not serve alcohol, the revenue stream from the Gold Dome alone will wipe out our deficit.”
Why wait until they’re 15? 13, maybe even 12. Wipe out that deficit much faster.
md
January 29th, 2010
11:41 am
A little story about gov’t waste:
Had a good friend assigned to do a study on how to cut waste within a certain gov’t agency (this person worked in the agency). This agency paid good money for this 6-8 month study. A large amount of waste was identified and suggestions made to include production efficiences, etc (no job cuts). When the results were completed, the powers that be thanked this person for a job well done and put the study in a drawer.
Nothing from that study was ever implemented, and that was ONE gov’t entity. Where is this scalpel we keep hearing about???
Scout
January 29th, 2010
11:43 am
Matilda:
Or would the liberals let them stay and put them on welfare so they would vote Democrat?