Tebow anti-abortion ad in the Super Bowl just free speech
I admire Florida football star Tim Tebow, both for what he does on the field and for who he is off the field. By all accounts he tries to live his Christian faith, and I’ve never been bothered by his efforts to proselytize. Even in the Biblical citations he wears in his eyeblack, he shows the good manners to proclaim his faith quietly without questioning or condemning that of others. OK by me.
Tebow is now the focus of a bit of controversy involving an anti-abortion ad in which he stars with his mother. The ad, sponsored by James Dobson’s Focus on the Family, will air during the Super Bowl, and some pro-choice groups are protesting the ad’s acceptance by CBS. They do have a point.
As the Washington Post reports, the Women’s Media Center and other groups “questioned how and why the network, which used to forbid ‘advocacy’ advertising, agreed to air Focus on the Family’s spot, which is valued at $2.5 million to $3 million.”
“The media center also noted that as recently as 2004, CBS had rejected an ad from the United Church of Christ, which wanted to use the Super Bowl as a chance to tell people it welcomes gay members. The center says CBS also has rejected ads in the past from MoveOn.org and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.”
The question of fairness is legitimate, but if this is really a new policy at CBS that will be extended to other causes as well, liberal and conservative, fine. The previous policy — designed not to offend anybody — never really made sense anyway, not in an advertising culture where discussion of four-hour erections and urinary problems have become standard.
And if Tebow wants to use his hard-earned fame to promote causes that he believes in, fine as well. I just hope he picks his spots carefully and stays wary about how others want to use him.
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810 comments Add your comment
pat
January 27th, 2010
1:38 pm
thinkprogress.org….LOL! I think you better off reading from the vagina monologs. An ad hoc liberal brain washing site….funny. Why don’t you quote from Air America…Oh wait, they wen out of business because nobody could listen to that garbage.
Bosch
January 27th, 2010
1:38 pm
jewcowboy,
“My right-wing troglodyte cousin ”
We all got one of those don’t we…..
Matilda
January 27th, 2010
1:39 pm
Mr. Meyer @ 1:25, I find ALL pharmaceutical advertising annoying and offensive, since prescription-only drugs should be recommended by a doctor, not sought by hypochondriacs seeking better living through chemistry. The non-prescription morning after pill is not an “abortion” pill. Please do your research before butting in.
I have no problem with Tim Tebow airing his opinion, since I don’t give a rat’s fuzzy what a 20 year old male has to say about the uterus of another. If someone wants to blow $3 mil to feel self-righteous, have at it. Poor kid is going to be devastated when he comes down off that pedestal the sycophants in Florida put him on. Aside from the skeeter-feeding bible thumpers, NOBODY CARES what lil’ Timmy thinks. You should have taught him how to take a snap in the real world. He’s lost outside his bubble. Nice going.
Algonquin J. Calhoun
January 27th, 2010
1:41 pm
The ad is a political one and an opposing viewpoint should be allowed. I’m sure there are plenty of parents who would be happy to appear with children they wish they’d aborted. As for whether Tebow can make it in the pros, many a Georgia cracker has espoused hatred of him but they hate him for a reason. He’s damn good and he beats the University of Georgia like a drum. He’ll be a great quarterback in the NFL. That’ll give you douchebags something else to hate him for!
Bud Wiser
January 27th, 2010
1:41 pm
Enter your comments here
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
1:42 pm
Bosch,
“We all got one of those don’t we…..”
One of those mouth-breather’s if you know what I mean.
Jake
January 27th, 2010
1:42 pm
pat – I’m not lost, I’m confused by your inability to grasp the concept. Yes, he was tried and convicted not only for Laci but for fetal murder. But that very same law, and to the best of my knowledge all of the laws against fetal murder in all 30 states that have such a law specifically EXCLUDE abortion. I don’t see why I have to keep explaining this to you. By law fetal homicide is murder but abortion is not fetal homicide or child murder or baby killing., and within certain limitations is legal. Which part of that don’t you understand?
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
1:42 pm
Bud Wiser
Shorts too tight?
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
1:43 pm
“I’m sure there are plenty of parents who would be happy to appear with children they wish they’d aborted”
WOW! That was one of the best statements so far. Love it.
Jenifer
January 27th, 2010
1:43 pm
“I’ll bet not a single right winger has posted the definition of abortion that they’re willing to accept or even when life begins.”
Absolutely, positively correct you are.
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
Jake @ 1:36
I wish the broadcast and print media would research and report the news and not comment on it. At least in print media the fact that something appears in the Editorials section alerts everyone clearly this is “opinion”. But with the 24 x 7 news cycles, opinion and news are mixed as well as butter in mashed potatoes.
That said, one difference between CBS and Fox is CBS broadcasts on the public airwaves and therefore, in my view, owes the public consideration when they air ads promoting or opposing controversial topics. Fox “News”, just like CNBC is on cable/satellite. That is a private, proprietary network.
stands for decibels
January 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
Wayyy upthread @@ wondered what PETA thought about abortion.
a quick googling got me this, in case anyone cares:
“Where does the animal rights movement stand on abortion?”
There are people on both sides of the abortion issue in the animal rights movement, just as there are people on both sides of animal rights issues in the pro-life movement. And just as the pro-life movement has no official position on animal rights, the animal rights movement has no official position on abortion.
Bosch
January 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
“I’m sure there are plenty of parents who would be happy to appear with children they wish they’d aborted.”
That, my friend, was funny.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
1:46 pm
pat
scoff at TPM, but the data remains accurate and you can’t handle the truth.
Jenifer
January 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
Lauer Calls Out Cantor’s Claim That The GOP Stood ‘Ready And Willing’ To Work With Obama On The Stimulus
Last month, when asked by the Economist to name a republicant “big idea” for job creation, Cantor couldn’t come up with a single idea.
Of course he couldn’t, because the republicants are bereft of ideas, and their only purpose is to make sure that this country fails.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/27/cantor-jobs-plan/
DT
January 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
I’m sure a big part of CBS (liberal network) airing the 30 second spot is simple economics, nothing to do with politics. Advertising business is pretty rough these days, I’m sure they’d take an add from NOW or NARAL if those organizations wanted to drop the $2.5 million for 30 seconds of airtime.
Does anyone actually know what the ad/spot is going to say other than rumors that Tim Tebow will discuss the fact that his mother did not follow certain doctors’ advice and not have an abortion? If anyone has a copy of the script, I’d like to read it. I’m sure a lot of the “controversy” is just a chance for people like NOW and NARAL to make noise in the news and get press.
Disgusted
January 27th, 2010
1:54 pm
“We all got one of those don’t we…..”
I have one who’s retired and living in Canton, Ohio. I, along with about 30 others on his DL, receive about five e-mails per day from him–all of them either racist or homophobic or extremely conservative. He’s all against the government but certainly doesn’t mind receiving the benefits of Social Security and Medicare. It doesn’t faze him when you try to tell him you’d rather not be receiving the junk he looks up 24/7/365. So this week I added him to the spam list.
TGT
January 27th, 2010
1:57 pm
Haven’t weighed in on this yet so:
Life in the womb for a baby is as well documented as anything in science. (Hardly any serious scientist in the world would argue against the fact that life begins at conception.) With ultrasound and doppler machines, as well as other technology, one can monitor the life of a baby in the womb from very near the beginning until birth. I understand this well not only because of what I’ve read and studied, but also because my wife and I have four small children.
Just over a year ago we had our 3rd son. The moment after conception, we were the proud parents of a one-celled, forty-six-chromosomed baby, which possesses everything he needed to grow into an adult human. Within 48 hours he produced a hormone which let my wife’s body know that she was pregnant. On day 6 the embryo began implanting in the uterus. By week 3 his little heart began to beat with his own blood, which is often a different type than the mother’s.
During week 5 my son’s eyes, legs, and hands began to develop. Week 6 revealed detectable brain waves and his mouth and lips were present. By week 7 his toes formed and her nose was distinct. Also, he began bending his legs and stretching, jumping, and kicking. By week 8 every organ was in place and bones began to replace cartilage. He could then turn his head, suck his thumb, and respond to pain. (At around week 8 of our pregnancies, which is not long after most women even realize that they are pregnant, we saw an ultrasound of each of our children. Every organ was in place and bones were forming. I could see and hear their little hearts beat at around 150 beats per minute.)
By week 12 he had all the necessary parts to experience pain, including his nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. He could grasp objects placed in his hand and had fingerprints, a skeletal structure, and circulation. Around week 17 he could have dream (REM) sleep.
With the new (4-D) ultrasound machines, a person can see with amazing clarity the baby in the womb. The babies can be seen grasping things, sucking their thumbs, and responding to stimuli.
More and more babies that are being born early, some just past halfway in the gestation period (20 weeks), are surviving because of the march of science.
Prior to the dreadful 1973 Roe v. Wade decision 33 states had laws against abortion except when needed to save the life of the mother. Twelve other states had laws that allowed abortion only in cases of rape, fetal deformity, or to protect the life/health of the mother. A ruling by seven unelected judges changed all of that and what had been the will of the people for centuries was cast aside.
Mother Theresa said it best when she noted that, “The greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love but to use any violence to get what they want.”
Jake
January 27th, 2010
1:57 pm
Swede – Good points, but I think you need a license to broadcast air or cable, don’t you? The NYTimes, just using them as one example, has printed op-ed pieces on it’s front page posing as legitimate news for many years. Straight, factual, unbiased reporting was the norm in the 50’s but is now very scarce. In fact, IMHO, the news media has polarized the country as a way of increasing revenues. Whether you’re Rush or Air America, you get a target audience and you cater to it.
Williebkind
January 27th, 2010
2:02 pm
Jenifer
January 27th, 2010
1:48 pm
Nope your are wrong again. They want Obama and the progressive liberals to fail–not America. The progressive liberals want America to fail because they do not believe in capitalism. Progessives love murderers like Che Guevara(you got your t-shirt or necklace dont you), Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and Hitler and the philosophers like Bernard Shaw. Progressive liberals can not be allowed to succeed.
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
2:04 pm
Ref: Jake @ 1:57
Yes, I’m sure there are licensing requirements for cable. But they don’t use public broadcast airwaves that are limited.
Completely agree that nothing that claims to be news is any longer news. The “free press” that was once viewed as essential to our democracy is long gone in favor of commercial interests.
Doggone/GA
January 27th, 2010
2:08 pm
“Prior to the dreadful 1973 Roe v. Wade decision 33 states had laws against abortion except when needed to save the life of the mother. Twelve other states had laws that allowed abortion only in cases of rape, fetal deformity, or to protect the life/health of the mother. A ruling by seven unelected judges changed all of that and what had been the will of the people for centuries was cast aside”
Anyone who is willing to allow abortion for ANY reason…is pro-choice, whether they like it or not.
What is your alternative? Would YOU FORCE the woman to carry her pregnancy to term, thereby enslaving her to YOUR version of “morals”? Or is it all about being able punish her for getting an abortion?
If it’s the punishment, then you ARE PRO-CHOICE, because you would not interfere in the woman’s decision to GET an abortion…you would only punish her for making a decision YOU don’t like, but for which you have no viable alternative.
MAC
January 27th, 2010
2:10 pm
The networks constantly have advocacy issues points of view imbedded in the scripts of their shows so I don’t see the big deal here.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
2:16 pm
Cowboy,
Do your foster parents know you are downloading 2 gig files? Your stepdad is going to give you a beating……or is it a “meating”?
MAC
January 27th, 2010
2:19 pm
Eight pages of comments and not one person has actually seen the ad.
Jay, good job on the red meat post.
TGT
January 27th, 2010
2:22 pm
Doggone: It’s not simply “my morals.” There is ONE who is the author of all things. All that is right and true must be rooted in Him.
What you see as a “forced” pregnancy I see as protecting a life. (And it is a life.)
“Anyone who is willing to allow abortion for ANY reason…is pro-choice, whether they like it or not.”–Agreed.
There are many “alternatives” to abortion. Visit any crisis pregnancy center and you can learn them.
Matilda
January 27th, 2010
2:27 pm
Algonquin J. Calhoun at 1:41
Know who Tebow never beat? Auburn, that’s who. Even if he had, that would not qualify him to make medical decisions for women he’s never met. Ah, the hubris of a kid who thinks he knows everything because somebody handed him a bible. IF he is indeed a virgin (yeah right), that makes him LESS qualified to discuss such matters, but if loving Tebow feels so right to you, how could it be wrong? Heh…
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
2:28 pm
TGT
who is that ONE and what did ONE say?
TGT
January 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
Granny: Seek Him and you will find Him.
mike
January 27th, 2010
2:38 pm
“Also, the ad is being backed by Focus On The Family, an evangelical organization which advocates a bigoted, narrow-minded and authoritarian worldview characterized by advocacy of school-supported prayer and intolerance of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, organized gambling and science.”
Yeah, they should be tolerant like you.
Spare us your hypocrisy.
mike
January 27th, 2010
2:41 pm
Matilda -
“Even if he had, that would not qualify him to make medical decisions for women he’s never met.”
Good thing he is not doing that. Unless, of course those of you are abortion advocates are making medical decisions for women when you speak your mind.
mike
January 27th, 2010
2:44 pm
Doggone/GA
“Would YOU FORCE the woman to carry her pregnancy to term, thereby enslaving her to YOUR version of “morals”? ”
Well, let’s look at it another way. Let’s say the mother decided to abort the baby the day before its due date even though the baby is healthy.
Would you object to this? How bout the day after the baby was born?
If you object to this are you not, “enslaving her to YOUR version of “morals”?
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
2:46 pm
TGT
Actually my ONE, never spoke of abortion. Ever.
You must havethe wrong one.
mike
January 27th, 2010
2:46 pm
For me, the issue of abortion is a matter of bio-ethics, not religion.
mike
January 27th, 2010
2:47 pm
Mrs G –
While I might not share your views on this, I agree that my readings of Jesus’s teachings do not make reference to abortion.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
2:52 pm
mike
thanks.
here’s hoping our future includes a way to make this argument a thing of the past.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
Enter your comments here
DAVID-AJC Truth detector
January 27th, 2010
3:09 pm
WOULD THE SO CALLED WOMEN’S groups just quitely disappear…be gone.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
Jeremiah 22:3 says this: Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.
This command occurs in II Kings 24, Exodus 20, Job 22 Deutoronomy 9, and about 50 other places. We are forbidden to shed INNOCENT BLOOD in scripture. Period.
So if Life begins at conception, which the Bible CLEARLY TEACHES, then that is not a clump of cells, but a BABY and therefor innocent blood. Killing an UNBORN BABY is murder pure and simple.
Matilda
January 27th, 2010
3:15 pm
David @ 3:09, you mean like all the women in your life? Don’t worry. Just be yourself and speak your mind, and women will flee from you as if you were a hideous spider on a half-eaten Luna bar. There, there now… don’t be scared little chicken. The wimminz will leave wittle poopy pants alone now.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:15 pm
doggonega, you make comments ALL THE TIME that would lead one to believe that you would “enslave people to YOUR version of “morals”.
Goose/Gander
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:17 pm
For example doggone, you want to take away MY MONEY that I worked for to pay for someone else’s healthcare. Isn’t that “enslaving me to YOUR version of morals?”
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:18 pm
Sorry chuck. wrong ONE.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:19 pm
To which “ONE” are you referring Mrs. G?
@@
January 27th, 2010
3:20 pm
Obama was the only candidate to buy an ad during the Super Bowl, one that ran in 24 states, to the tune of $250,000. The focus was on two strongly progressive messages: ending the war and saving the planet.
Turns out the planet is doing just fine without his help. The babies? He could lend his voice to them, but what the hey….he’s got an environment that demands his attention.
He also gave the progressives another war–one they can be proud of.
Focus on the Family’s money is as good as anyone elses. They’re message places value on life.
TGT
January 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
Mike/Granny: There’s plenty of “bio” (biology) at my 1:57.
Whacks Eloquent
January 27th, 2010
3:29 pm
Abortion, while common in the Roman Empire, was an unthinkable practice in ancient Jewish society. There would be no reference to it since they would not have considered it. In the Roman world, on the other hand, it was rampant and quite an accepted practice. The clash between Christianity and abortion began in the very early years of the church. Here is a link to a good summary article of the struggle.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_v36/ai_3521569/
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:33 pm
chuck
i could do a TGT and say seek and you shall find, but that’s kinda’ silly.
I am a follower of the Fisherman…..and he never spoke of abortion.
I don’t take the Old Testament/Torah too seriously, I see too many Christian shrimp eaters….what an abomination!
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
3:33 pm
Chuck @ 3:13
Chuck, the Bible is a manifestation of your Christian FAITH. Nothing in the Bible is intrinsically true just because it appears there. You may be a fundamentalist that believes every word in the Bible is true. That’s great, for you. But regardless it doesn’t make it true.
Since we are a nation of people of many faiths and belief traditions, including atheists, your religious beliefs should not be imposed on others. For me, abortion is morally wrong and should be used only in the most extreme of circumstances. But I don’t believe it is my place in this secular society to prohibit it. I support ways to reduce the need for abortion including responsible sex education, reasonable access to birth control, support for adoption programs, etc.
So, if you are opposed to abortion, don’t have one (if your name is Chuck I guess you can’t have one anyway). Support programs to reduce the need for abortion. But don’t impose your moral and religious beliefs on the rest of society.
I do have a couple of questions for you. Do you eat shellfish? Have you ever shaved your beard? Have you ever had relations with a woman during her time of uncleanliness? If so you have committed an abomination.
Also you talk about the prohibition against taking innocent life. Do you support the death penalty? If so you have very likely supported the taking of innocent life since from recent cases that there are alot of people on death row that have been proven to be innocent. I suspect we have “murdered” several innocent people. How about the innocent Iraqis and Afghanis that our bombs have killed. Yes there are bad Iraqis and bad Afghanis but have you decried the loss of those innocent lives?
How about people who die needlessly because they don’t have access to healthcare? The list goes on and on.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
Swede believes slavery should still be legal because the driving factor behind its elimination was the Christian faith. Sorry that Christian ideology was imposed upon you Swede…..maybe the Stockholm syndrome will not manifest itself in you.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
Follower of the Fisherman….yeah right!! Those Old Testament Commandments must be too burdensome for you to bear. Especially the one about “Thou Shall Not Murder”.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
Pro Choice
wow….did you just make that up or what?
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:42 pm
Cowboy,
Thanks for the correction on up/down. Now is it a meating or beating stepdad will give you?
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
3:43 pm
Pro Choice,
I know this thread is dead, but just in case.
“Do your foster parents know you are downloading 2 gig files? Your stepdad is going to give you a beating……or is it a “meating”?”
You do really have issues with reading comprehension issues…upload is not download. Before you show your idiocy, please read the post correctly. Your inanity is tedious.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:43 pm
Yep….Just now Granny.
Sick&Tired
January 27th, 2010
3:45 pm
The same people who say they value life, such as the Focus on Family group; are a bunch of liars. They usually support war and the death penalty; while at the same time they despise programs that the government run to help the poor women who do “Choose” to give birth.
I find it ODD that the same people who talk about welfare moms are usually in the same Anti-abortion groups. They don’t care if poor women and children do not have access to healthcare, but talk down about them whenever the find the need. The South Carolina Lieutenant Governor is an excellent example, with his animal metaphor. You don’t want to feed, house or educate the kids. But, you want a say so about their right to life. Okay, how about providing those that parents did chose a right to LIFE; please feed, house and educate them without COMPLAINT.
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
3:46 pm
Pro Choice,
“Now is it a meating or beating stepdad will give you?”
You’re the expert on dick, you tell me.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:47 pm
Wow Cowboy…..maybe I will be a deep and logical thinker as you one day. NOT!!
Old & Rich
January 27th, 2010
3:48 pm
Sick & Tired,
We, the producers, of this country are tired of supporting you, the leeches, and your lack of ability to support yourself. You should say a little prayer every day that there are those out there who provide for your basic necessities.
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
3:49 pm
Pro Choice,
“maybe I will be a deep and logical thinker as you one day.”
I’d settle for simple reading comprehension, but alas, I think that might be in vain.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:49 pm
Pro Choice
Oh behave yourself.
The 10 commandments are kindergarten. Only one I ever have a problem
with is that coveting thing. (neighbor has a 1961 1/2 candy apple red mustang convertible, tough not to covet)
The Beatitudes are graduate level.
Again Jesus never spoke of the start of human life, perhaps because he too thought enough of women to allow them to decide for themselves.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
3:53 pm
Mrs. G, Jesus’ teachings CAME FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT. I hate to break it to you but Jesus had a lot to say about how we are to treat CHILDREN. Since the Bible is quite clear that the unborn is a CHILD, I would take that seriously.
Swede, We have many laws with which people disagree. Abortion is no different. The concept of right and wrong in and of its self is a matter of religion. Does that mean that we should be legally free to do whatever we wish? Of course not. When in doubt, choose LIFE.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
3:54 pm
That’s ok Cowboy if everyone was as wise and intelligent as you then how could you impress us with your vast cerebral abilities. I think Ahmadinejad has a special place for you and your moniker…..
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:55 pm
Pardon me…..1964 1/2….just the thought of that gleaming red machine…
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
3:59 pm
chuck
are suggesting that Jesus used sort of Torah Teleprompter?
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:00 pm
Granny is quite the theologian…..maybe you could discuss a few topics with David Bell at Georgia State University.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
4:04 pm
sick and tired, you miss the point entirely. Christians supporting the death penalty and opposing abortion are not in any way at odds with themselves. Abortion takes an INNOCENT LIFE. Wars and the death penalty take the lives of murderers. I believe there is a huge difference between the 2.
As far as your statement about “not wanting to support them”, I see 2 issues. First, Christians DO SUPPORT women and children through COUNTLESS charitable efforts. Most conservatives, including Christian conservatives don’t believe that that is a legitimate function of the FEDERAL government. It is not a BAD thing, just a wrong-headed thing. Attempts to feed and clothe the poor is poorly done by a bloated federal government bureacracy and has resulted in that cycle of poverty repeating itself over and over again in the lives of the poor. It has cruelly created a permanent underclass and THAT is a disgrace.
Second, from a practical stand point, it is ALWAYS better when people take responsibility for themselves and their own families. EVERYBODY needs help at some point in their lives, but repeated irresponsible behavior should be punished, NOT rewarded.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:04 pm
Torah Teleprompter….now that is funny.
Pres BO is going to be mighty upset is someone is messin’ with his toy.
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
4:05 pm
Pro Choice @ 3:40
Where did I say I believe in slavery? Please don’t attribute something to me that I didn’t say nor could you infer from anything I have posted.
I am in fact a Christian but I accept the fact that I live in a modern secular society. I don’t want an atheist to tell me to abandon my faith. I don’t want a Muslim to try to convert me to Islam. My faith and how it manifests itself in my life is an entirely personal matter.
In this society, individuals should not have the personal beliefs of others imposed on them.
What if American Muslims decided you needed to wear a Burqa because the Koran says so. Would you like that?
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
4:06 pm
Pro Choice
It’s the Jesuits and BVMs in the family……
Matilda
January 27th, 2010
4:10 pm
Hey chuck ol’ buddy. For what it’s worth, I support the right of that Focused on your family group to spend millions of dollars on the most expensive ad space in the universe to preach to their own choir.
I mean, using that cash to rebuild a hospital, church, or couple of schools in Haiti wouldn’t be NEARLY as much fun! Why SAVE LIVES when you can sell guilt? Maybe Mr. Tebow will even flash us a nipple to really round out our superbowl night entertainment. Wooot! Bring on the good, clean fun.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
4:11 pm
swede, again you miss the point. WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION, in spite of what the presbo would tell you. While we welcome people of other faiths to practice them, that doesn’t mean that we should cow-tow to them and have their beliefs foisted on us. Neither should we force our specific RELIGIOUS PRACTICES on them. That doesn’t mean that our LAWS are not or should not reflect our Judeo-Christian values as a NATION. Just as THE LAWS in THEIR COUNTRY reflect THEIR RELIGIOUS VALUES. It is not that difficult a concept to get your mind around.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
4:12 pm
Mighty nice of you Matilda.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
4:13 pm
chuck
nope we are a secular nation with a lot of christians….a lot of whom believe very differently from you.
you are right about this though “Neither should we force our specific RELIGIOUS PRACTICES on them.” SO DON’T
chuck
January 27th, 2010
4:14 pm
Wrong granny, and “I DON’T”
Jake
January 27th, 2010
4:14 pm
chuck – Right and wrong are actually the subject of ethics, a branch of philsophy. Various religions attempt to codify certain ethical practices (ten commandements, for example) but that does not in and of itself give them any moral or ethical superiority. In fact, the bizarre set of beliefs to which you appear to ascribe has resulted in countless horrors over the years, from the Crusades to the Inquisition to witch burning.
chuck
January 27th, 2010
4:15 pm
hey ya’ll have a great afternoon. Off to church.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:17 pm
Swede,
So you are an anarchist? You basically don’t want anyone else’s laws/beliefs imposed upon you? You want to be able to own assault rifles, grenades, etc. because you don’t want those evil, filthy values someone else has imposed upon you? How about bestiality? Is that OK in your eyes? What about polygamy? Any issues with marrying children off to adult? I think you people in GA are quite common at that……
Matilda
January 27th, 2010
4:19 pm
Jake, c’mon you know those “witches” wuz askin for it. Didn’t you see the way they were dressed? The good Christians wuz just helping them take personal repsonsibility for their own sinful behavior.
Jake
January 27th, 2010
4:19 pm
chuck – While you’re at church you might want to pray that Tebow masters taking a snap under center and accurate passing so he will have more money to spread the myth of fundamentalist christianity.
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
4:20 pm
Pro Choice,
“I think Ahmadinejad has a special place for you and your moniker…..”
I think he might have a place for you as well.
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
4:20 pm
Ref: Chuck @ 4:11
No, we are not a Christian nation. There are many, many citations from the Founding Fathers that make clear they never intended this to be a Christian nation. The fact that the majority of Americans describe themselves as Christians doesn’t make us a Christian nation either. Our legal system is designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Who is foisting their beliefs on you? Christians cry how they are so discriminated against and yet I can’t find a single shred of evidence. Every court ruling and law related to the expression of faith is neutral. As a Christian I don’t consider myself set upon by other belief systems.
The fact is abortion is legal in this country. The Supreme Court has ruled that abortion, with certain reasonable restrictions, is covered by the right to privacy in our Constitution. If you want to make it illegal then get cracking to amend the Constitution. But until then it is legal. That is a fact.
But I want to ask you a question. What if it was illegal? Do you think it is right that those with means who can travel abroad can obtain an abortion while others are forced to the back alleys or attempted self-induced abortions? Is that a better system?
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
4:21 pm
“WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION”
With a secular government. Go figure.
Sick&Tired
January 27th, 2010
4:23 pm
Chuck, you missed the point. Every life is valuable, whether or not you agree with how they live it or not.
Yes, many charities provide for the poor. However, if they actaully were providing wholeheartedly and not every now and then; maybe we wouldn’t need government intervention at all.
A child needs a home and food everyday, not when the charity or church can provide. There is nothing worse than a child, who is sick and unable to be seen by a physician.
I’m not just talking about people who live only on government assistance; I’m talking about families that have low incomes and primarily provide for themselves. If people rely completely on charities, in this economy, they would be homeless and hungry.
The government programs such as welfare should do more to encourage people to educate themselves and find jobs that can actually substain a family. It’s not enough to say “Get a JOB”, any JOB. There are many people who would love to have a great career and the salary to boot; but you have people in this country who don’t believe in a true LIVING WAGE. Yes, we have Minimum wage, but it’s not truly enough to substain a family.
In my opinion, if Jane Doe decides that she likes being a cashier at Wal-Mart and is happy in that JOB, she should earn enough to take care of her family. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working as a cashier, it’s an earnest living. The same goes for trashmen, janitors, cooks, housekeepers, warehouse workers, etc……… I find it absolutely offensive that policemen and firemen earn so little for the jobs that they do.
My rant is about the value of life and how you should value the children that are born into our society.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:24 pm
Jake,
Care to take a look at some socialist ideologies and their number of murders? Within only the modern era Hitler, Stalin, Pot, and Mao have managed quite the efficient killing system……wars are based upon the desire of one group to subjugate (lookie there Cowboy a big word from someone so shallow) another group. In the past religion was used to rally the troops…no longer so in the Christian religion but the fervor does exist in other religions such as those of The Prophet as well as others on the Asian subcontinent.
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
4:24 pm
We are not a Christian nation……
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:28 pm
Granny,
Wrong again. You may not be Christian but the majority of people in this country consider themselves Christian. Really burns your azz doesn’t it….too bad about the fall of the Soviet Union where agnostic beliefs served them so well……….
AmVet
January 27th, 2010
4:31 pm
WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION,
Nonsense.
“As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] … it is declared … that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries….”The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation.” — Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)
The Founding fathers were nearly all “Infidels”, of the first presidents – Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson – not a one had professed a belief in Christianity
Old & Rich
January 27th, 2010
4:31 pm
Sick,
So we should pay people a “living wage” to basically do what they want to? I don’t even thing Karl Marx would argue that dogma……..if you want more money, material things, etc. then you have to be willing to do what others can not or will not do. Otherwise you should continue sitting on the corner and thanking those who throw loose change your way….
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:33 pm
Cowboy,
I can convert….your moniker will rat you out. DP was a victim of their ideology….
Granny Godzilla
January 27th, 2010
4:34 pm
chuck
no my tushie is just the right temperature thank you, but aren’t you sweet to be concerned.
nope, you are really big time wrong.
Let me repeat – we are a secular nation with a lot o’ Christians.
Russia….yep the Christian Czars did a bang up job…..oh you mean the OTHER fall…..
Swede Atlanta
January 27th, 2010
4:35 pm
Ref: Pro Choice
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. No, I am not an anarchist nor am I a Georgian. I am bluer than blue can be.
Of course laws reflect our cultural tradition. In our case it is a Judeo-Christian tradition that came with the settlers to the New World.
But the Founders recognized that given their life experiences they set up a form of government that was intended to protect the minority from the majority through a set of checks and balances. They were very concerned about the tyranny of the majority.
There are certain societal precepts that are generally accepted around the world, perhaps not in every single society, but in most. I think most societies agree that stealing isn’t good. Gunning someone down in a church isn’t good. The list goes on and on. I’ve always wondered about the prohibition against bestiality. Who is the victim? Since I was raised in Wyoming I suspect it is the poor sheep we are trying to protect.
We have prudently outlawed Polygamy and child marriages but not necessarily because of religious beliefs. The Bible is filled with arranged adult-child marriages. Polygamy was practiced in the Old Testament. But as a society we have decided these practices can be prohibited under our Constitution.
The Constitution, however, is very, very secular. The Supreme Court has ruled abortion legal under the current Constitution. If we want to have a societal debate on this matter then we need to go through the amendment process. Once again the process is specifically cumbersome to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:38 pm
Swede,
PETA is going to be quite upset with you making derogatory comments about those wonderful tasting sheep.
jewcowboy
January 27th, 2010
4:41 pm
Pro Choice,
“I can convert….”
I just bet you could. Perhaps you could also disguise yourself as a woman or child as the Titanic sank too..
“So our virtues Lie in the interpretation of the time” ~ William Shakespeare
The End Game
January 27th, 2010
4:41 pm
It all boils down to whether you actually support murder or not and at what point does life begin. If you succumb to the belief that life begins at conception then it is murder, if birth then a medical procedure to take care of a growth….kind of like removing a cancer. It simply boils down to this.
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:42 pm
Cowboy,
Yes they do. Virtues today would have you burned at the stake in earlier times….it would also have your hand cut off for stealing……..
AmVet
January 27th, 2010
4:45 pm
For the second time today:
Murder –noun
1. The killing of another human being UNDER CONDITIONS SPECIFICALLY COVERED IN LAW. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
Abortion is not murder. Not in America. Not in 2010.
And all the fallacious claims in the world do not make it so…
The End Game
January 27th, 2010
4:52 pm
Guess this means that abortions are spontaneous (not to be confused with the actual biological process in a woman’s body over which she has no control) actions taken at a doctor’s office that have not been deliberated beforehand?
The End Game
January 27th, 2010
4:54 pm
Can someone please enlighten me as to when life begins? It might make this debate much simpler if we could simply decide that…
Pro Choice
January 27th, 2010
4:57 pm
Cowboy,
Since you wish to quote the Bard of Avon…….I think you are just heavenly & speak to few.