Current U.S. health care system provides less for more
Over at fivethirtyeight.com, Andrew Gelman has posted an interesting graphic (see below) plotting the average life expectancy in Western industrialized countries against the per capita spending on health care in those countries. (The size of the circles reflects the average number of doctor visits per capita in each country, another category in which the US lags.)
Granted, life expectancy is influenced by a whole range of factors in addition to the quality of health care. But look how far out there the United States is on cost alone. By any measure, we are grossly inefficient in health-care delivery compared to our industrialized competitors.
In normal circumstances, you’d look at a graph like that and wonder whether we ought to be doing what our competitors are doing. Certainly, that’s what any corporate CEO would do if confronted by data such as this. But we Americans are not supposed to acknowledge that other countries may be doing something smarter and better than the United States, because we all know — chant it together now class — “the United States has the greatest health care system in the world.”
And of course, if we ever did dare look at how other countries manage to provide more health care at less cost, we’d find that in almost every case they do by treating health care more as a public utility than as a private industry.
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277 comments Add your comment
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
9:37 am
Universal health insurance now!
Capt Underpants
January 5th, 2010
9:41 am
Universal OboboCare NEVER!
The Iranians give big nose Kerry the smackdown…LOL!!
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:43 am
Yeah, but we’re Christians
GoingBroke
January 5th, 2010
9:44 am
Seems to me that its not just a healthcare issue.. We have a bunch of overweight people that sit on their butts all day long.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:45 am
Jay what would be interesting would be also a ranking of the effectiveness of each country’s health care system.
Are the costs shwn comosite costs or just personal or employers costs?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
9:45 am
my favorite right-wingnut argument to date for the pay more/lower life expectancy: “yeah, but it’s just because we have more gun crime”
wheeeeeeeeee!!!
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
Jay’s analysis:
Socialist health care= good
Private insurance= evil
Bottom line: I highly doubt Jay Bookman would skip his own AJC paid for doctor to travel to France for a hip replacement.
pat
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
And pretty soon we’ll get even less for even more…You realize that it would have been cheaper for the governement to buy every single uninsured person insurance than it is to implement this debotchery of a plan. That’s how stupid it is. It’s cheaper to buy the insurance than it is to screw up healthcare even more.
When you want to take something bad and make it ten times worse, put a democrat in charge.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
I saw this graph this morning…..
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/4/821836/-Buy-More,-Get-Less,-Die-Sooner
Call it like it is.
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
Oh I don’t think it all that big of a secret. We spend a lot of money, true, but American has become “LAZY” our eating habits stink, we don’t work out, we worship our ipods and computers and on and on and on.
Its not the money we are spending, its our lifestyle. Hey Jay see if you can find a graph on how much Coke the average American drinks compare to the other countries. Also our work habits. Americans work theirselves to death. Even the AJC was talking about this yesterday, something like over 65% of us didnt use their full vacation time. Whats up with that.
People you work to live, You don’t live to work. Get out, eat better, live better, be better.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
My favorite left wing argument for socialist health care is it’s free for all and no one will have to worry about where the money will come from to pay for it.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
Are the costs shown composite costs or just personal or employers costs?
Sorry, my fingers haven’t caught up to my mind on too much coffee!
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
“Seems to me that its not just a healthcare issue.. We have a bunch of overweight people that sit on their butts all day long.”
And to combat this, GA has no middle school PE requirement and high school requires only one semester.
Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
DAILY KOS!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
And libs howl and scream about FOX NEWS!
Liberals: Do as I say not as I do!
Joan
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
Tort reform is the answer. If doctors could just perform those tests they truly felt were necessary costs would be tremendously reduced. If doctors didn’t have to pay $250,000 per year for malpractice insurance, they wouldn’t have to pass on the costs to patients. If Americans would get off their butts, lose weight, tone up and take some responsibility for their lives, we would cut healthcare costs by 1/3.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
TW writes: Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’
Sure, and please relay your message to Barney Frank.
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
LA – the money will come from you.
Don’t like it? Adios
Paul
January 5th, 2010
9:49 am
Jay
I pretty much agree on this.
As far as “n normal circumstances, you’d look at a graph like that and wonder whether we ought to be doing what our competitors are doing. Certainly, that’s what any corporate CEO would do if confronted by data such as this.”
A question I’d asked from the start: why didn’t we, or more specifically, the Democrats in charge of the process, do this?
They did manage to get themselves mired down in the muck of responding to “Canada! UK! Socialism!!!” but I do not recall any examination of any models that would be adaptable to our system, such as the Swiss model (private insurance and regulation, regulation, regulation, regulation so it approaches the public utility concept).
You asked a good question. Too bad Democrats ignored it.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:50 am
TW,
But that’s just basically stereotyping. Not everyone in the south is fat. Ever been to Philly? It was named America’s fattest city and Philly ain’t no right-wing machine.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
TW, LA – the money will come from you.
And it will come from you as well. If not, see you in prison!
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
Disgraceful.
Join me as we recite, “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Corporations of America. And to the P&L Statement for which they stand, one multi-national, under a green god, with liberty and justice for some.”
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
I guess Tila Tequila’s was to be wife no longer needs worry about OboboCare.
FrankLeeDarling
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
Well,we have outsourced everything else,why not healthcare.
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
Nice job AmVet!!! *APPLAUSE*
I like it!
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
“Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’”
I believe it’s mostly the Democrats sitting on their ars watching Springer wanting the handouts.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Joan, do doctors that run additional tests make more money by doing so?
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Seems to me like the Japanese have something figured out. How many obese Japanese have you ever come across?
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Peadawg writes: I believe it’s mostly the Democrats sitting on their ars watching Springer wanting the handouts.
Mostly? No, more like 90% of the Democrat voting base is sitting on their arse watching Springer, eating Twinkies and complaining about their welfare checks.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:54 am
Southern Comfort
sumo wrestlers come to mind.
Besides, they eat a lot of fish and rice. Mmmmmmmmmmm
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
9:55 am
all I can say is that I’m appalled whenever I fly to the states – while we have are catching up with the US on obesity, you just don’t see the numbers of HUGELY obese people here that you do there.
and the difference definitely isn’t because of diet (helloooooo fish-n-chips, sausages, crisps, biscuits, etc) — I really think it’s because it’s so much more pedestrianized here. Even if you drive to the high street to shop, you still have centralized parking that requires you to walk to your destination rather than right-outside-the-door / minimal walking needed parking.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
Q: What’s the difference between a Democrat and a catfish?
A: One is an ugly, scum sucking bottom-feeder and the other is a fish.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
USinUK, it’s because the food in the UK sucks so bad. That’s why the UK doesn’t have a large population.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
Oh goody!
We get to see a rehash of the old crap again!
Can we get a “whup whup” for tort reform?
And a “hip hip hooray” for death panels?
And a “go go go” gulags!
Dear Loyal Opposition:
Please run on a platform to repeal healthcare.
Salt & Light
January 5th, 2010
9:57 am
TW:
“Perspective ……………. ”
Mark 14:
“Jesus was in Bethany. He was at the table in the home of a man named Simon, who had a skin disease. A woman came with a special sealed jar of very expensive perfume. It was made out of pure nard. She broke the jar open and poured the perfume on Jesus’ head. Some of the people there became angry. They said to one another, “Why waste this perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s pay. The money could have been given to poor people.” So they found fault with the woman. “Leave her alone,” Jesus said. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. You will always have poor people with you. You can help them any time you want to. But you will not always have me. “
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:57 am
USinUK, Chicago and NYC are the same way. They were designed that way.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:58 am
Mrs. Godzilla: rehash of the old crap
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:58 am
Q: What is a recent Democrat graduate’s usual question in his first job?
A: What would you like to have with your french fries, sir?
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:59 am
Peadawg/LA: And your master Rush is in fantastic shape! What a stupid stereotypical reaction you have posted! And to think , you watch Springer! What trash!
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
10:00 am
LA: I must add that it was a UGA Democratic graduate!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:01 am
Road Scholar, Rush Limbaugh is my master?
Well, at least my master is a multimillionaire.
You none too bright is ya Road Kill?
Sam
January 5th, 2010
10:01 am
jay, sometimes less is more. not in this case, but sometimes..i say we do nothing and see waht happens. its goten us this far. and like you said ‘we have the best healthcare system in the world’…the more i say it, the more i believe it.
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
LOL LA
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
Road Scholar, I actually have a job. I don’t sit on my butt watching trash t.v. and wait for my handout. Thanks for trying though!!!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
Road Kill writes: I must add that it was a UGA Democratic graduate
1: Never heard of a democratic graduate. Is that the equivalent of a degree in jogging?
2: UGA! LOL No wonder your comments are off.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:03 am
Road Kill, I think you need to give that UGA democratic degree back to Vince Dooley.
Angry Black Man
January 5th, 2010
10:04 am
I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama. I don’t like Obama either but here is what’s really wrong with the country, see below:
I am greatful for my job, however, the people in this country do not understand monetary policy and the detrimental things that banks, the federal reserve and the federal government are doing to destroy the dollar and the economy. Here is my list of top 10 things most Americans are oblivious to:
1. The creation of money out of thin air is inflating the money supply and will cause hyperinflation, just wait. Most of you idiots still think we’re on the gold standard, if you even know what that means!
2. The Federal Reserve and the IRS income tax are both unconstitutional. The US Constitution gave the power to create currency to Congress but these crooks gave the power to the Federal Reserve.
3. Democrat vs. Republican- Hey you idiots? Have you ever heard of political atheism? Democrats and Republicans alike have both done severe damage to the American way of life. Don’t you dummies get it? The Elite bankers who control everything (media, government, etc) want bickering and fighting amongst the people. Think about it, as long as we are divided politically, we can never achieve real change, dummies!
4. Money is debt and debt is money. Most of idiots do not understand where money comes from. Of course the mint prints currency, but that’s not what I’m referring to. Each time a back makes a loan, new money is created. Did you know that? Money is created out of debt!
5. Fractional reserve banking is causing inflation also. When you make a depostit at your local bank, they are only required to keep a percentage of that amount in reserves. The rest can be loaned out at interest which creates money out of thin air.
6. The President has no real power, only the Banking Elite has the real power. Obama is nothing more than a puppet and you dumb ass white people are still talking about him being a Socialist. Obama is the least of our problems.
7. Most politicians do not understand monetary policy and they are nothing but crooks who take bribes from lobbyists. The politicians in DC are only interested in fattening their pockets. Think about it-Why would a politician spend millions of dollars to fund a campaign for a six figure salary?
8. Gold and Silver is the only “real” money. Have you dummies checked the price of gold lately? Of course not, I know you had to catch the last episode of ” Dancing with the Stars” or “Desperate Housewives” or maybe “American Idol” re-runs. The dumbing down of America is obvious as most Americans probabaly do not know their state governor.
9. NAFTA, or the North American Free Trade Agreement is one of the reasons why most of the American manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to other nations. We have a 40 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico? Do you know why? America doesn’t make anything, I mean anything! What do we produce? We only produce hate, not products that could be exported and traded on the open market. Hey dummies, ever wondered why most items in your house say “Made in China” or “Made in Mexico”. That’s why!
10. Cap and trade is nothing but a huge tax increase on energy production. I’m a black African-American male and I think Ron Paul would’ve been the best President for this nation. A lot of white people are stupid and just don’t like Obama because he is black. You should not like Obama because he doesn’t understand monetary policy and is ruining our currency with continuous bailouts and federal spending.
Republicans and Democrats are nothing but idiots who do not understand the real problems in this country. Be a Political Atheist and do what’s right for this country, not what appeals to a party. Dummies!
Sincerely,
Angry black Man
RW-(the original)
January 5th, 2010
10:04 am
Actually a businessman worth his salt would ask for the data behind the graph before rushing out to overhaul his business. I just followed every link that supposedly took you to the dataset and they all took me to ways to make the picture except one. That one seems to go to a spreadsheet with lots of data entry categories but again no data.
I think I’ll head to the cold, cold forest and sit the rest of this one out, although if someone has the actual data behind this graph I’ll have a look when I get back.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:05 am
Peadawg, I think Road Kill is ashamed of his democratic degree from UGA.
Woof Woof!!!!!!! We’z won da Shreveport Bowl over Texas A&M!!!!! Sick em’ dawgs!
getalife
January 5th, 2010
10:05 am
So, Romney’s book tour called ” No Apology” starts but Steele, Pat and Palin are saying the gop establishment needs to go.
The gop civil war, if you will.
cons vs the gop establishment.
I will have to go with the cons on this one.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:06 am
Angry Black Man writes: I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama.
Hate to break it to you Black Man, but this white boy voted for that black/white man and I am sick of his inept ability to lead.
Bottom line: Oh well.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:07 am
Paul
“A question I’d asked from the start: why didn’t we, or more specifically, the Democrats in charge of the process, do this?”
My question, what makes you say they didn’t do this?
Exra Klein did a nice piece on it.
NYT did a piece in August.
Franken talked about it in a hearing in October.
I think it’s more about political realities.
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:07 am
Nude body scanning at the airports is the way to go. One stop shopping -health care and, security.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:07 am
Sam ain’t none too bright either.
Must be a UGA thang.
DAVID---AJC Truth Detector
January 5th, 2010
10:07 am
AGAIN..JAY is attacking the best Health Care System in the world…second to none….If it is not broke…..don’t touch it..JAY…..You are clueless…as usual..
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:08 am
“I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama. I don’t like Obama either”
I stopped reading there. So, Angry Black Man, it’s ok for blacks to not like Obama, but not whites? You’re an idiot.
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
10:08 am
Headline: “Obama to Announce New Security Procedures”
“People on the watch list are subject to additional scrutiny before they are allowed to enter this country, while anyone on the no-fly list is barred from boarding aircraft in or headed for the United States.”
Wait a minute !! Shouldn’t this be people on the watch list “are denied entry into this country” and people on the “no-fly list” are being hunted down?
DAVID---AJC Truth Detector
January 5th, 2010
10:09 am
JAY.Whatever happened to all the GLOBAL WARMING atticles you normally write…
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:09 am
Peadawg, that’s racissssssssssssssssss!!!!!!
No double standards there, huh?
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
10:10 am
Oh so Rush is a millionaire is your barometer of success? He’s also a drug addict! Also Dooley graduated from Auburn! He has no UGA degree!
Besides you didn’t refute that it was a stupid stereotypical reaction!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:10 am
DAVID—AJC Truth Detector writes: Whatever happened to all the GLOBAL WARMING atticles you normally write…
Answer: His computer froze up due to low temps in his computers hard drive.
DAVID---AJC Truth Detector
January 5th, 2010
10:10 am
TOOOOooo Damn cold to write GLOBAL WARMING articles in this January FREEZE.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
10:11 am
Ooohhhhh. A healthcare thread. Too bad Democrats ignored it. Now, where have I heard that tired line before. Well, it’s just a good thing the Republicans are right on message and just saying NO.
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:11 am
“JAY.Whatever happened to all the GLOBAL WARMING atticles you normally write…”
B/c he finally realized freezing cold in the Winter and 100 degrees in the Summer are normal. Global Warming, ehh? Didn’t it snow here last February/March(whenever is was)?
Doggone/GA
January 5th, 2010
10:11 am
“Socialist health care= good”
We need something here that posts the definition of “socialist” maybe every 15 minutes or so. We have a lot…A LOT…of people around here that don’t have a clue what it means.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
10:13 am
LA @ 10:05: Wrong again! At least you are consistent, and persistent!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:13 am
Road Kill writes:
Oh so Rush is a millionaire is your barometer of success? He’s also a drug addict! Also Dooley graduated from Auburn! He has no UGA degree!
Besides you didn’t refute that it was a stupid stereotypical reaction!
Yes, he is a success. He brings in 30 million listeners a week, brought radio back from the dead and has sold over 20 million books. Yes Road Kill, that is a success.
Drug addict? So, you are perfect now? You must walk on water and heal the sick.
So, Vice Dooley graduated from Auburn……..and that has what to do with your democratic degree?
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
10:14 am
“I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama”
So its ok for black to be hatin on obobo but not whites hay-in on Obobo?
I am white and enjoy people of all colors hay-in on the kenyan. But its really not hay-in so much as just stating what a failure he truly is.
Lettuce NOT confuse fact with emotion.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:14 am
Road Kill: Wrong again! At least you are consistent, and persistent!
No, UGAY did beat Texas A&M in the Shreveport Bowl.
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
10:15 am
Headline: “Nigeria has criticised new security measures for passengers flying to and from the United States as unfair and said they amounted to discrimination against 150 million people.”
Surely “our” President would not be any part of discrimination? Maybe the ACLU (I mean the Nigerian NCLU) can do something about this ………….
P.S. Is not being Nigerian that’s the problem ……… it’s being Nigerian and Islamic.
White Russian, Nigerian, Middle Eastern ……………. the common denominator is being Muslim.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:16 am
I have seen trailer parks smarter than Road Kill.
Bottom line: Give that democratic degree back to UGA.
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:16 am
LA, who is Vice Dooley?
You’re beginning to prove the saying “It’s better to let people think you’re an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt” You’re a Dawg fan, but you don’t know where Vince Dolley graduated?
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:16 am
Emergency room visits combined with nude body scans at airports will assure us of the best health care in the world.
Sam
January 5th, 2010
10:18 am
whats all the negative talk about UGA? and whats the shreveport bowl?
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:18 am
Road Kill, well if Vince Dooley’s Auburn degree is allowing him to run the UGA football program…….
Jokes on you! I guess Auburn IS better than UGA.
misplaced
January 5th, 2010
10:18 am
Looks like Rush really likes socialized heath care.
http://www.seiu.org/2010/01/hell-freezes-over-rush-limbaugh-loves-union-hospitals-and-socialized-medicine.php
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:18 am
Mrs. Godzilla
Thanks, but…
Ezra Klein, the NY Times and freshman Senator Franken are the Democrats in charge of health care reform?!!?
I was referring to a country-by-country, process-by-process analysis with significant advantages and disadvantages of each. Didn’t see it.
My impression is various Democratic constituencies were looking through a straw and seeing only ‘their’ pet project, then looked for a way to cobble them together. Don’t get me wrong, in some areas (preexisting conditions, not dropping sick people) there have been strides and the proposals are much better than what we have now.
But as far as an overall reform effort, I don’t think they did well.
G’morning, Doggone/GA!
Sam
January 5th, 2010
10:19 am
LA your ignorance shows with every response
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:19 am
Peadawg, show me ANYWHERE in my posts where I have stated that I am a UGA fan.
Come on you can do it.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:20 am
Sam: whats all the negative talk about UGA? and whats the shreveport bowl? where are my meds?
mommy, is that you? where are my stuff animals? why do the voices in my head get louder?
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
10:20 am
“CAIR says that this will disproportionately target American Muslims who have family or spiritual ties to the Islamic world and therefore it amounts to religious and ethnic profiling.”
No kidding Sherlock.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:21 am
Sam brings ignorance to a whole new level.
pat
January 5th, 2010
10:22 am
I am going to be very generous with numbers here. I am going to use the grossly over estimated number of 47 million uninsured. If the feds bought each individual an average plan at $2000 a piece. The cost would be $94 billion. Over 10 years, that’s $940 billion.
Comapre that with 1.055 trillion for the house bill, that only covers 36 million people:
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=200910291728dowjonesdjonline000980&title=cbo-puts-house-health-bill-total-cost-at-1055-trillion.
Covering 36 million people would only cost $72 billion a year and $720 billion over 10.
The senate bill would “only” cost 871 billion, BUT it only covers 31 million folks.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/73071-senate-health-bill-costs-871-billion
So if we are only covering 31 million folks, buy them insurance would only be, $62 billion per year and 620 billion over 10 years.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:22 am
Paul
Again….what evidence do you have that they didn’t review each model?
I think you are wrong. Can’t proof it any more than you can.
getalife
January 5th, 2010
10:23 am
ABM,
Are you running on that platform?
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:23 am
Jay,
Can we get some insight into who actually posted that 10:04?
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:24 am
LA
Keep it up.
I give ya’ 48 hours.
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:24 am
getalife
Does that sound like anything that’s been posted under that name before?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:25 am
SoCo, I didn’t think that was you …
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:25 am
I wonder if Rush was given any enemas in the hospital in that foreign country…
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:25 am
Mrs. Godzilla, 48 hours to what? Live, sleep?
Be more specific.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
10:26 am
Jay,
538 always has interesting material to read. There are quite a few good sights out there. Have you seen this before?
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:27 am
Mrs. Godzilla, by the way, the only way Jay is going to ban me is if I insult someone on a personal level.
So far, I have been called a douche bag by Sam. Jay said nothing.
If Jay doesn;t say anything about Sam calling me a douche bag then he will probably not say anything to me about taunting other bloggers.
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:27 am
U-n-U
Nah, I guess I’ve got a fan somewhere. Either that, or someone thinks they can experience the black experience by posting under that name on this blog. Either way, it’s way beyond pathetic.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:27 am
LA
Nope
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:27 am
“I give ya’ 48 hours.”
I like that one, but much prefer 60 minutes.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
I am only going to post once, but fire away. We (USA) are the fattest, least healthy gluttonous nation in the world. We do everything we can for instant gratification. We do not walk anywhere. We fight over the closest parking space. We are an unhealthy bunch. People, we are fat. Look at the national obesity rates! We are by far the fattest nation in the world. We are a nation willing to spend our money on healthcare, but we are not willing to give up eating terribly and engaging in a healthly lifestyle. In Japan they eat fish and rice steadily. Let me tell you about our friend (Navy wife) who just had a baby in Japan. She did not even have the option of pain relief. The real root of the issue is that we Americans are gluttonous pigs who don’t take care of ourselves. Heck, we are the only nation in the world whose poor people are fat. All these health studies are junk because the data is flawed. Go ahead fire away!
Jay
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
SoCo, that was apparently a brand-new poster here, conceivably someone who did not know the name’s history on this blog.
Kamchak
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
LA
Red card or yellow?
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
LA
First comes the paranoia….
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
Mrs. Godzilla
[[Again….what evidence do you have that they didn’t review each model? I think you are wrong. Can’t proof it any more than you can.]]
When someone says “I’m not aware some body did something” the normal response is to say “I’m not either” or “I believe they did, look here.” Not asking a person to disprove a negative.
Possibly some staffer did a brief review for his or her boss. But as far as Democratic policymakers doing what Jay suggested in his writing, I’m pretty sure we would have heard about it. I’d guess if they had and we hadn’t, it was because they didn’t like the answer they got.
Again, I heard nothing that said Democrats did a county-by-country, process-by-process examination of other health care models before they began crafting their legislation. If anyone has information to the contrary (aside from ‘prove they didn’t') I’d like to hear it.
getalife
January 5th, 2010
10:28 am
SC,
Yeah we have a new ABM.
You are not angry anymore.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:29 am
SoCo –
“Either way, it’s way beyond pathetic”
yipes. if you’re looking for “beyond pathetic” you seem to have come to the right place on the right day … just sayin
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:29 am
Jennifer
Me too, but it’s a test to see what it has learned….or not.
The Professor
January 5th, 2010
10:29 am
It truly saddens me to see what this blog has become……Instead of having great dialogue people here are reduced to name calling and childish antics. Can anyone direct me to a blog that has great dialogue and varying “opinons” are respected or am I dreaming?
Jay
January 5th, 2010
10:29 am
And LA, Sam’s comment was taken down as soon as it was posted.
Bosch
January 5th, 2010
10:30 am
I don’t know about this Andrew Gelman guy, but Nate Silver was recently voted as one of the smartest men in the universe, no galaxy, from somewhere – can’t remember, but I remember he was on a list with some pretty impressive folks.
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:30 am
“or not.”
Gets my vote.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:31 am
Hey SoCo!
[[Either way, it’s way beyond pathetic.]]
Thanks for my morning laugh!
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:31 am
“Woof Woof!!!!!!! We’z won da Shreveport Bowl over Texas A&M!!!!! Sick em’ dawgs!”
LA, I assume when you said that you were a UGA fan.
ATLshirt
January 5th, 2010
10:31 am
Wow, Angry Black Man, you actually inspired me with that post… actually gives me a little hope about the future, if only there was a way to inform the masses, so that they are not such dumb little sheep !!!
Del
January 5th, 2010
10:32 am
Angry Black Man,
I agree with much of what you said and I’m White. I don’t hate Obama I just see him as being in over his head. Too little experience and he’s surrounded himself with others within his administration with too little real world experience. As for the topic on U.S. healthcare, here we go again with these left wing charts, graphs and phony statistics all gleaned off of the hard-left Web sites trying to dum down Americans into believing that the rest of the world is just head and shoulders above us in health care delivery. Nice try but the majority of Americans don’t and won’t buy into this scam that the Dem’s in Congress are ramming through with zero transparency.
pat
January 5th, 2010
10:32 am
Name calling is so coooooool….
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:32 am
BMD –
you had me until this: “Heck, we are the only nation in the world whose poor people are fat”
totally untrue –
“Increasingly, the link is being made between poverty and obesity as high fat, high sugar food is cheaper and more readily available than healthier alternatives.
The hallmark of poverty today isn’t the gaunt feral look, so prevalent in sepia-tinged Victorian photographs, but type two diabetes and an expanding waistline.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4070112.stm
it’s a problem in most industrialized nations where fast food is readily available, not just the US
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:33 am
Thanks Jay.
I guess I have a twin somewhere. I hope he works on his vocabulary though. Kinda depressing reading your twin and he sounds like a 5th grader after drinking a bottle of maple syrup.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
10:33 am
I know of two reasons why our health care costs are higher in the U.S. than in other countries.
1. Our doctors and hospitals pay much more for malpractice insurance than other countries, and pass along those costs to the patients. Do either the house or senate versions of the health care bills address this problem?
2. Prescription drugs cost us more, yet Obama and the Democrats made a closed door deal with big Pharma that we would not be allowed to import drugs from Canada, where it is much cheaper.
Another interesting thing from the Senate’s bill. The following is a statement from Kathleen Jaeger, President and CEO of the Generic Pharmaceutical Association (GPhA), on the Senate passage of health care reform legislation:
“The bill passed by the Senate, unfortunately, amounts to a treasure trove to brand drug companies who stand to make enormous profits from health care reform – putting brand drug profits over patients. This bill is a missed opportunity to expand access to affordable medicine while also reducing drug costs. This bill is no holiday present to American consumers.
With generics saving the health care system one billion dollars every three days, Congress should be looking at increasing, not decreasing, access to safe, effective and affordable generic and biogeneric medicines. Real reform should bend the pharmaceutical cost curve in the right direction. Yet, as it stands, brand drug companies are poised to receive gold nuggets in their stockings, whereas consumers are about to get a handful of coal.”
I see the Democrats are really looking out for the common people here. Instead, it appears the lawyers and the big pharmaceutical companies are the true winners.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 5th, 2010
10:33 am
Well, all I got to say is we may not have the best health care, but we got the best funeral business in the world. Put that in your librul pipe and stick it where the sun don’t shine.
Have a good day everybody.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:34 am
USinUK, but we started the trend.
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
10:34 am
The Professor
January 5th, 2010
10:29 am
It saddens me that you would bother us. Now please go away…shew fly!
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:34 am
LA gives Republicans a very bad name…
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:36 am
Perfesser
Don’t go. Stay and try to change the world. One blog at a time.
Hey Bosch –
16 days!
Jay
January 5th, 2010
10:36 am
Sam, back down the personal comments please.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:37 am
Peadawg
LA’s a Republican? Who voted for Obama?
Complex personality, he is –
Just like millions of other American voter.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:37 am
Mrs. Godzilla, three weeks ago you said that you’d give me 7 days.
Three weeks later……………….
Kamchak, neither, I am not going to insult anyone on a personal level.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:38 am
BMD – “USinUK, but we started the trend.”
um. this isn’t like Prada bags and Uggs. it’s not like other countries are racing to keep up with the joneses. it’s a simple matter of economics and access to cheap, high sugar/high fat foods.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:38 am
Peadawg 10:31 am
No, that was sarcasm to Road Kill.
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
10:39 am
Has anyone else noticed the “political” vent category is missing from the AJC website this morning ?
Is this some new policy ? I wouldn’t doubt it as most of the vents there were conservative and the liberal vents always got voted to the bottom.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:39 am
Paul LA’s a Republican? Who voted for Obama?
Noooooooo, like I stated a month ago, I vote both ways. I just could not vote for Mccain because he’s a bigger hypocrite than Bush.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:39 am
USinUK, I assure you that our obesity numbers as a whole compared to any other Nation are outrageous. I will try my friend google.
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:40 am
BMD/U-n-U
Blame it on Tang. Once they put that stuff on the space shuttle, it has gone downhill ever since. The genetically altered and modified food is doing us in. That, along with the pre-packaged stuff, is what’s driving the train down the un-healthy diet path.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:41 am
Mrs. Godzilla First comes the paranoia….
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?????? ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME? WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME?
Paranoia enough for ya?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:41 am
BMD – “I assure you that our obesity numbers as a whole compared to any other Nation are outrageous. I will try my friend google”
like I said earlier, the UK is catching up fast –
but your point was that the US was the ONLY country with obese poor people (“Heck, we are the only nation in the world whose poor people are fat”) – I’m just pointing out that is incorrect
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:42 am
If fat people want to be fat, let them be fat.
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
10:42 am
Paul
No problem with the morning laugh. I had to laugh myself when I saw that posting. I feel like I’ve been initiated in as a regular now.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:42 am
tick tick tick
Hef
January 5th, 2010
10:43 am
Jay says a CEO would look at this data and ask what are we doing wrong or what is our competition doing right? A smart CEO would want to know what this data encompasses,where it came from,what criteria was used, & who’s study is it? Jay knows better or does he?
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
10:43 am
Glad to see the dummycrat butt-kissing, molly-coddling and bed-wetting extravganza continues!!
Iran accepts Clinton non-deadline on nuclear talks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_us
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:43 am
From wikipedia
Obesity in the United States has been increasingly cited as a major health issue in recent decades. While many industrialized countries have experienced similar increases, obesity rates in the United States are among the highest in the world with 64% of adults being overweight or obese, and 26% are obese.[2] Estimates of the number of obese American adults have been rising steadily, from 19.4% in 1997, 24.5% in 2004[3] to 26.6% in 2007.[4] Should current trends continue, 75% of adults in the United States are projected to be overweight and 41% obese by 2015.[5]
The direct medical cost of obesity and indirect economic loss to obesity has been estimated to be as high as $51.64 billion and $99.2 billion in 1995, respectively;[6] this rose to $61 billion and $117 billion in 2000.[7] Researchers for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and RTI International estimate that in 2003, obesity-attributable medical expenditures reached $75 billion.[8
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:43 am
USinUK, do you really get a say in how people treat their own bodies?
Nope.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:44 am
SoCo –
“The genetically altered and modified food is doing us in. That, along with the pre-packaged stuff, is what’s driving the train down the un-healthy diet path”
RAMEN!!! I try to avoid sauces from a jar and ding-dinners like the plague – cook only fresh (or frozen) veg and meats and I think the last time we went out for fast food was a foray to the Big Chicken when we were in Marietta
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:44 am
Jay, have you ever been a CEO of a company?
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:45 am
LA 10:39
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you’d written you’d voted for Obama.
SoCo
Yup, you’re part of the regulars.
And if you find you aren’t, I’ll share my oatmeal with you.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:45 am
LA –
“USinUK, do you really get a say in how people treat their own bodies?”
why the heck not??? if the right is going to tell me what I can/can’t do with my body via my reproductive choices, why can’t I make a stand on what people eat???
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:45 am
USinUK for health food only czar.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:46 am
USinUK, did the right force you not to kill your baby?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:46 am
BMD – 10:43 – scroll up to my 10:41
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:47 am
Paul, are you real?
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
10:47 am
USinUK
SoCo
I’m with y’all on food.
We are not perfect, I’ve been know to mainline Oreos….
Not only what you cook….but what you cook in.
We don’t use teflon or aluminum pans and never ever ever cook in plastic or re-use plastic water bottles…..
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:48 am
LA, my argument is that the left wants to use these studies that I think are not relevent to healthcare in the US. In the USA we choose to be fat and pursue instant gratification. The other countries ahead of us live healthier lifestyles in general.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:48 am
LA –
“USinUK, did the right force you not to kill your baby?”
they try … and they keep trying … so, what do they do??? a flank attack on birth control – birth control pills, the morning after pill …
The government will save me right?
January 5th, 2010
10:50 am
Another eye-opening article from Jay! While you’re at it Jay why not post a chart on how many people come from other countries for health care in the US?
I’m in agreement with LA’s first post, seriously doubt Jay is lining up to go for healthcare in any of the other countries on the chart.
A band-aid shouldn’t cost $10,000 at a hospital, but expecting the same level of care that is currently available (at a high cost) for what is paid in Korea just doesn’t make sense.
By the way- Jay skipped over the “a lot of factors influence life expectancy”, but if you look at the countries on the chart that are the best on cost and life expectancy you’ll see countries that eat and take care of themselves much better than people in the US do.
Nothing can help lower cost like eating less Big Mac’s and actually getting off the couch….(or off this blog)…
Hef
January 5th, 2010
10:50 am
Robert@10:30-Excellent!!!! It’s not about reform,it never was.It’s about power/control,it always was.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
10:51 am
c-span.org
So much for the transparency promise…not like they have kept many promises…
Democrats May Bypass Conference To Finish Health Bill
Today
“C‑SPAN has sent a letter to House and Senate leaders asking that negotiations on the health care bill be open to cameras. News reports indicate that the leadership is considering bypassing a formal conference committee in resolving differences between House and Senate versions of the legislation. Identical bills must pass each chamber before a final bill can be sent to the President.”
ty webb
January 5th, 2010
10:51 am
Anyone know how I can increase my carbon footprint? I’m freezing my nads off.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
10:53 am
ty, eat beans lots and lots of beans.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
10:54 am
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
10:39 am
Has anyone else noticed the “political” vent category is missing from the AJC website this morning ?
You should not hold it in. If you really need to go, just step outside if you have to and let ‘er rip. Vent loud and Vent proud!
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:55 am
LA
Against my better judgment, I’ll ask: Real what?
Normal
January 5th, 2010
10:56 am
LA, downstairs you said,
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:28 am
Normal, last time I checked it was a free country. And in a free country one is more than able to ridicule the guy he voted for.
Since you were “riduculing” Obama, we figured you voted for him. Do you read what you say?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
10:56 am
Paul –
“Real what?”
real charming!
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
10:58 am
Where can I find a list of the best emergency rooms in Georgia? The google is of no help.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
10:59 am
Jay,
I hope you’re getting ad clicks out of this.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:59 am
Robert 10:51
I believe the transparency promise was Candidate Obama’s promise on what he’d do as President.
Not Spkr Pelosi’s or Sen Reid’s promise.
They learned their lesson when Pelosi said she’d get rid of the Culture of Corruption.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
10:59 am
Hef,
Yeah, it never was about true reform was it? When one of the major goals of health care reform was to lower costs, we get closed door shady meetings with lobbyists from the big Pharma and insurance companies helping craft this bill…which will not lower costs for us. This explains why they do not want C-Span filming this. How embarrassing would it be for Obama if C-Span filmed negotiations taking place with lobbyists or the CEO of Pfizer?
Either way, we will probably get no response from the people on here that love to bash Bush but never admit any faults in their own party.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
10:59 am
USinUK
awwwww……………
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
11:00 am
Where can I find a list of the best emergency rooms in Georgia? The google is of no help.
Look for the one with the shortest line, I mean, longest line, I mean, shortest… is it a life threatening emergency.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
11:01 am
Robert
Here’s a response.
Measured and appropriate.
Piffle.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
11:02 am
Normal – 10:56 – evidently it was “under duress”
“I just could not vote for Mccain because he’s a bigger hypocrite than Bush.”
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
11:02 am
I tend to agree with Bruno on this one. We don’t have a health care problem, we have a health care COST problem.
Can anyone out there, left or conned, refute this? Premiums are astronomically high! Many families cannot remotely begin to afford reasonable coverage.
The leading cause of bankruptcies in this country? Catastrophic health care costs.
Suicides are up for the same reason.
And the corporatists find it all rather amusing, I suppose. Or at least reason for them and their Republican lackeys to do NOTHING whatsoever about it.
The reasons are multi-fold, but government give aways, subsidies, sweetheart deals with the industries, corporate welfare, etc are the predominant causation.
And tens of thousands of Americans die needlessly every single year simply because they are not profitable enough.
The “free market” has turned out to be an enormously inept and expensive joke, whereby the fascists laugh all the way to the bank and we don’t even get Vaseline…
Prescott
January 5th, 2010
11:04 am
Aside from the difference in lifestyles there’s a genetic component that contributes to lifespan.
The graph doesn’t address problems within the various system. Take Japan for instance. The patients aren’t complaining, but the doctors are. They’re paid so little that they look for creative ways to make up the loss. $4.00 an hour parking. I was at Piedmont Hospital for 6 hours the other day…total parking fee? $5.00.
50% of Japan’s hospitals are in financial deficit right now.
In Australia, a country comparable in size to the U.S., the total population is 19.6 million. Wait times for elective surgery, i.e. hip replacement, cataract surgery, can be anywhere from 3 months to a year. Looking at the longer-term issues, there’s a potential shortage of nurses, inadequacy of equipment and capital funding. There is a general questioning about the level of financing of the care. When it comes to the aboriginal people, they are, for the most part, poorly served in the system.
Ours is a society that has grown accustomed to having what we want when we want it. We are chronic complainers. Health care reform won’t fix that.
LA
January 5th, 2010
11:04 am
USinUK, but you’re in the good ole U of K. Everything is just peachy keen over there, right?
Does the right also take away one’s access to Penicillin shots or Herpes medication? Nope.
Abortion is murder.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
11:05 am
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
11:01 am
Robert
Here’s a response.
Measured and appropriate.
Piffle.
Definition of “Piffle”: to talk or act in a trivial, inept, or ineffective way
Yes, I would say that describes your many comments perfectly, Mrs. Godzilla. Instead of resorting to one word responses, a thoughtful and deliberate person would have responded in a much different way. Just shows a lack of depth I guess.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:05 am
AmVet
Well said. Well said.
And if anyone missed it, or misinterpreted, that volley was not leveled against one Party….
LA
January 5th, 2010
11:07 am
USinUK, another thing, if you want to get an abortion it’s your choice.
My problem with this health care bill is it WILL have a mandatory taxpayer abortion coverage in it.
I don’t want my money paying for anyone’s “mistakes.”
LA
January 5th, 2010
11:08 am
AmVet We don’t have a health care problem, we have a health care COST problem.
Apparently AmVet has not been paying attention. MANY people have been arguing this and MANY people have suggested solutions only to have those solutions knocked down. AKA Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
extremerightwing
January 5th, 2010
11:09 am
Let’s see…65% of this country is either morbidly obese or overweight. We eat more junk food than any other country. We smoke, drink to excess, consume more illegal drugs than any other country. We don’t exercise. So yes…looking at all of this it’s no wonder our health care costs are so high for the life span we have.
I’ll bet $100 dollars that if you eat right and exercise your health care costs will be minimal.
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
11:09 am
“is it a life threatening emergency.”
It’s not yet, but I would like to nip it in the bud before it becomes one. I guess for a life threatening emergency I will hang up and dial 911.
LA
January 5th, 2010
11:10 am
extremerightwing, yeah, Obama smokes a pack per day yet he tells others not to smoke.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
11:10 am
Robert
double dawg piffle
one might consider themselves thoughtful and deliberate while
actually being a blatherskite
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
11:11 am
Perhaps Mr. Obama and Congress should just copy from the playbook of their predecessors who, in November 2003, passed the Medicare Modernization Act, now known simply as the M.M.A. ’03.
The M.M.A. ’03 provided generous federal subsidies toward the purchase of prescription drugs by Medicare beneficiaries, even though it still left the elderly themselves to pay a significant fraction of the bill (see Chart 1). The bill also provided payments to private Medicare Advantage plans that have been, on average, 14 percent higher for Medicare beneficiaries choosing such plans than for the same beneficiaries had they remained in traditional Medicare.
You mean it costs a small fortune and leaves a huge donut hole for the poor recipient to cover. And they call that a Medicare Advantage (that one’s for you, Paul, you sweet thang).
Currently projected Medicare spending on prescription drugs over 2010-19 comes to slightly more than $1 trillion (see Chart 2 below). Over 90 percent of that total represents the effect of the M.M.A. ’03. Added to this total must be the 14 percent subsidy granted to the Medicare Advantage plans, which has been estimated to come to about $170 billion over the next decade.
But who’s going to pay for it!!!!!
And how was this vast new entitlement for the elderly financed?
Were taxes raised specifically to finance the bill? They were not. Was federal spending elsewhere cut specifically to finance the bill? It was not.
Instead, the sizable annual federal outlays occasioned by the M.M.A. ’03 simply have been added to the federal deficit since the inception of the program, and will continue to be so treated in the decade ahead.
Ohhhhh! Right! Our children will pay for it because it is more important for the Republicans to buy votes than balance budgets.
LA
January 5th, 2010
11:11 am
Jenifer, it’s called a band aid.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
11:11 am
AmVet, one party is completely blocking out and ignoring any effort from the other party. Also, how would tort reform help health cost?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
11:12 am
dangitall, Jay – where are my posts???!!!
Hef
January 5th, 2010
11:12 am
Robert-In general I agree with you,the majority of the left here and elsewhere almost faint at the sight of Obama.Just imagine what happens behind closed doors when they actualy get to see & hear his vloice at the same time(image that makes my stomach turn). But honestly there are a few here that look at both sides and can come up with fair analysis.
TW
January 5th, 2010
11:14 am
LA – more fat people in the Northeast than in the South????
C’mon, man…go to the Walmart in Canton sometime
Besides, so what if we’re fat? Right? Only means something if you buy all that lib nonsense about health, and cancer, and diabetes, etc. – bucha nonsense…them silly libs and their ‘thinking’ and their ‘research’ and their ‘educations’…lol…
Seriously though, there’s a reason that rebel flag ain’t nothing but a slanted red cross
Smoke up, Johnny!!!!!!!!!
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
11:18 am
AmV
Bravo!!!
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
11:18 am
No self loathers, acknowledge or countermand my points then begin your endless red herring and straw man chase.
The GOP is widely known as the Do Nothing Party. Why is this?
Because, given the chance, they live up to their name. Progress is the enemy; the status quo is to be preserved at all costs (get it?).
Go soak your heads in your “free market” nonsense…
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
11:18 am
LA, I’ve responded to you 3 times but the effing bot at them.
short response – abortion is a legal procedure – it should be included in the health care bill. as far as paying for things you don’t believe in, welcome to life in a Democracy. we all pay for things that we don’t agree with or believe in – ask any Quaker.
Call it Like It Is
January 5th, 2010
11:20 am
Amen LA.
Our health care system was not broke here in America.
All we needed to do was crack down on the fraud so the premiums could be lowered for all.
No one want’s what the Socalist in office wants!
Enough Said!!!!!
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK, fortunately we are a nation of laws and not of silly little men.
Abortion is NOT murder…
Jake
January 5th, 2010
11:24 am
‘High standard of living” i.e., GDP per capita translates to lots of obesity and substance abuse, cars and guns. If you take away our homicides and MVA fatalities (not many of those in Nepal) our lifespan is the best on earth. And we’re better at curing than preventing, something all that free insurance won’t begin to address. Lastly, we have the world’s highest suvival rates for 13 of the 17 most popular cancers, so it really depends on how you define quality health care.
pat
January 5th, 2010
11:24 am
Ironically enough, the obesity epidemic grew inversely proportional to the declining number of smokers…. Trying to control people’s behavior’s doesn’t solve problems, it creates new ones that are even harder to solve.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
11:25 am
We gots the bestest education and healthcare that there is in the whole danged air force, I mean, army, I mean USA. Women folks come from all over the world to get the same sorta looks as that Ms. Prejean and their menfolks gladly pays as many barrels of light sweet crude as it takes.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
11:25 am
AmVet –
“USinUK, fortunately we are a nation of laws and not of silly little men”
sadly, those things are not mutually exclusive – the US (and the UK) is both
pat
January 5th, 2010
11:26 am
Abortion is the taking of a human life and therefore murder.
Tech Fan
January 5th, 2010
11:27 am
ty webb
January 5th, 2010
10:51 am
Anyone know how I can increase my carbon footprint? I’m freezing my nads off.
Have lunch at the Varsity. You’ll put out enough methane to put any landfill to shame.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
11:31 am
AmVet, google the GOP health option. They presented one, but it was largely ignored by the press and the Dems.
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
11:32 am
I know! I will go to the airport and get my nude body scanned, then I will take the pictures to the emergency room and get my abortion for this year.
Whew!
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
11:33 am
Paul, thanks.
No matter how many times the facts are presented to the willfully myopic, they twist and spin and deflect off into their illusory world of tort reform, or the evil unions, or the NEA or the CRA or the…
You know what I mean.
I truly believe this is why the hijacked and hemorrhaging GOP has gotten so decimated – to the tune of a staggering 91% losing rate.
This nation is sick and tired of suffering fake conservative fools gladly.
When and why did the GOP become the Anti-Law & Order Party?
Hef
January 5th, 2010
11:33 am
Just like religion & politics,abortion is something very few agree upon.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:35 am
Taxpayer 11:11
Why is a piece on the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit for me? I brought it up, when?
If you don’t like the drug benefit, tell your representative to repeal it. Or fix it. Dems have had several years to make changes. And haven’t.
uq782
January 5th, 2010
11:36 am
longevity schmongevity, bookman. the devil is in the details. there are 1/3 fewer deaths in the u.s. than there are in spain due to the wait times. reform our system, yes. a complete overhaul, no. where is the transparency this administration promised? this whole deal is taking place behind closed doors. the administration is buying and selling our health care and futures.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
11:36 am
Hef,
I bring up a very important fact as it relates to the costs we incur in this country and the only response I get is from this Mrs. Godzilla woman and it was “piffle”. Instead of debating the “wrongs” about this bill, and how it will drive up costs for us, we here nothing of substance from the left on here.
BMDPD
January 5th, 2010
11:36 am
AmVet, you ultimately refuse to look at both sides. That is your own foolishnish.
wyldbyllhyltnyr
January 5th, 2010
11:37 am
Nice chart. The primary driver is the cost, both direct and embedded through defensive testing, of litigation. Yet, Obama-care does nothing to rein in litigation. This is the single largest controllable factor and Obama won’t address it because he is in the pocket of the trial bar. Shame on Obama.
Palin/Liz Cheney – 2012 – Change after a truly hopeless president Obama.
Del
January 5th, 2010
11:37 am
“abortion is a legal procedure and should be included in the healthcare bill”
It’s also an elective procedure and with the exception of protecting the mother’s health falls into the category of many plastic surgery procedures that only address someones vanity. Aside from belief issues it should be excluded on that basis alone.
Big D
January 5th, 2010
11:38 am
ABM, Very Good…#2= 16th amendment
#3 AMEN.
#6 Obama is an enabler now.
#8 In the future if you can’t eat it or shoot it…it’s worthless.
#9 Best yet…we have to bring back real value to the economy first.( I’m in manufacturing and growing every quarter)
#10. AMEN.
The reason to hate Obama because he is Black ( or half) is no worse than giving him a free ride just because he is… they are both stupid.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:38 am
AmVet
[[You know what I mean.]]
Yeah, I do. And it likely explains why, even when polls show support for Democrats falling, the respondents ask, ‘but what’s the alternative, really?’ The opposition’s fallen so far they’re not even seen as a… not viable…. but different enough alternative?
I’ve my own ideas, but the two-party power structure isn’t exactly open to representative democracy.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 5th, 2010
11:38 am
Geez, how many times can the same distortion and lie be told?
We have the most expensive care because it is the best, we do not wait for MRI’s or other state of the art diagnosis like everyone else does.
Why can’t the liberals tell the truth?
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
11:41 am
I wonder if there’s a limit on abortions…sure hope not.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
11:42 am
Del –
“It’s also an elective procedure”
so is knee surgery, hip replacement surgery, retinal surgery and so forth – none of those problems are life threatening – should they all be left out of the health care bill, as well??
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
11:44 am
I googled the GOP health option and all I got was:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diarrhea
Just kidding.
Save the alligator tears, it would appear even you have no idea what it is. But I am open to your elucidation, so please do – elucidate.
Decade after decade they had the chance to fundamentally implement justice in this area, and they did exactly what? Demonized Hillary and let’s see………uh……….er………..I guess I can’t come up with much else.
If it’s like every other hair brained Republican scheme it revolves around the insurers, et al to voluntarily quit screwing the American people.
Yeah, that’s the ticket…
Dave R.
January 5th, 2010
11:44 am
Well at least Jay posted something on heath care in picture form so that the libs out there could understand it.
The only thing easier for them would have been if it was written in crayon.
If only the current health care deform plan had actual cost controls built into it, such as – oh, I don’t know – increased competition via access to insurance across state lines, or allowing group insurance definitions to expand, or tort reform.
You know, all those things the “other side” tried to get into law but were stymied by the uber-libs in the House and Senate.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:45 am
Robert, if you’re still here:
“C-SPAN Challenges Congress to Open Health Care Talks to TV Coverage”
C-SPAN. The station progressives love to cite. Except now. I did a quick search to see if other media outlets were giving time to C-SPAN’s plea. Nope. One or two reprints from the Fox source, though. DemocraticUnderround said “Report from FauxNews” so I’m left to wonder if Democrats think C-SPAN’s plea is a false story by Fox, or if the idea Democrats think the idea of open debate is a false concept.
But really, given the payoffs in the Senate round, I can understand why Democratic leadership wants to keep the next round of payoffs, compromises, shortshrifts and sleights of hand as far from the public eye as possible.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:46 am
Robert
The link
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/05/c-span-challenges-congress-open-health-care-talks-tv-coverage/
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
11:46 am
Is there a limit on how many abortions one can get?
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
January 5th, 2010
11:46 am
Six prisoners were returned to Yemen last month from Gitmo. After the Christmas Day bomb plot in Detroit, US officials are increasingly concerned that the country is becoming a hot-bed of terrorism. Eleven of the former inmates known to have rejoined al-Qaeda in Yemen were born in Saudi Arabia. The organisation merged its Saudi and Yemeni offshoots last year.
Another brilliant idea from the left in action, waiting to explode near you.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
11:49 am
Some plans consider a hysterectomy to be “elective” even if the woman bleeds 20 days straight and spends two weeks a month doubled over in bed, unable to get up or work. My friend paid for hers out of her own pocket, even though her insurance premiums were always paid on time — to the only private company that would accept her, and she considered herself LUCKY to pay out the wazoo for coverage that… well, didn’t pay for her surgery. Tell me again why “private” insurance is sooooooo great?
Del
January 5th, 2010
11:50 am
UsinUK,
The procedures you referenced address quality of life issues. Elective abortion, breast augmentation, face lifts etc. don’t fit into that category. Life threatening is a different consideration and like I side abortion to protect the mother is justifiable. Abortion as a form of birth control is not.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
11:51 am
Paul,
The sad thing is that the Liberals know exactly what is happening with these closed-door dealings and payoffs, but could care less. They preach about how evil corporations are, yet the Democrats are the very same people making deals with the corporations. I can’t stand the hypocrisy I see everyday…whether it be at work, on the news, on this blog.
Dave R.
January 5th, 2010
11:53 am
AmVet, try paying attention and no let your abject hatred of all thing get in the way of reality.
The GOP had 17 different bills in place over the past 2 years to address health care issues. That they were not cobbled into one all-encompassing overall reform package is because they didn’t see the need for a vast overhaul of a basically good system that works for over 80% of the people who have it.
And who has been in charge for the past 2 years in the House and Senate, AmVet?
The Dems.
Who decides what bills move through committees?
The Dems.
Even when Bush had a House and Senate majority GOP, he never had 60 votes in the Senate to stop a filibuster on closing debate. So even with a majority, the Dems were not going to let any bill through to a vote on any plan to control costs or provide better coverage that didn’t include government options the GOP didn’t want. It is the difference between political theory and political reality, something someone who has never served in an elected capacity wouldn’t know.
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
11:54 am
A good abortion makes my day!
Robert
January 5th, 2010
11:54 am
Matilda, sorry your friend’s insurance company would not pay for her hysterectomy. I think she needs to get a better plan. Competition would definitely allow for that. I have several friends and family members who had no problems at all with their insurance companies paying for that procedure. One-offs do not prove a point when the majority has not experienced those problems.
Del
January 5th, 2010
12:00 pm
Paul,
“the two party system isn’t exactly open to representative democracy”
First time I was old enough to vote was sitting on a foot locker with an absentee ballot down in the troop compartment of an APA out on the big water just before Vietnam got into full bloom. I know it dates me but once upon a time the two party system served us well. The Dem’s and the Repub’s would throw bombs at each other during campaigns but when the dust settled one way or the other they all got back to work generally doing the peoples business effectively. Now that’s all changed because all they do is throw bombs and nothing good for the country gets done and in fact what isn’t good for the country seems to be the typical outcome.
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
12:01 pm
Del –
“The procedures you referenced address quality of life issues. Elective abortion, breast augmentation, face lifts etc”
first of all, I know some breast cancer survivors who would argue your point about follow-up breast surgery. secondly, if you already have 2 kids and can’t afford a 3rd, I’d also argue that’s a very important “quality of life” issue that not only affects your quality of life, but that of the children you already have.
lastly, “abortion as birth control” is nothing more than a chimera of the right – the majority of women who have abortions have used birth control which failed them (condom broke, perscription not strong enough, etc).
wyldbyllhyltnyr
January 5th, 2010
12:01 pm
ABM
1. The creation of money out of thin air is inflating the money supply and will cause hyperinflation, just wait.
Not always, but the rate at which our callow, inexperienced, ideologue President Obama is creating currency will almost certainly lead to inflation and, perhaps, hyper inflation. Debt is an important and necessary tool for a central bank, but it has to be handled responsibly and Obama just is not capable of doing so given his ideological bent..
2. The Federal Reserve and the IRS income tax are both unconstitutional.
Who cares. The Fed has been in operation for a long time. rehashing old claims that it is unconstitutional won’t get anything accomplished.
4. Money is debt and debt is money. Most of idiots do not understand where money comes from. Of course the mint prints currency, but that’s not what I’m referring to. Each time a back makes a loan, new money is created.
Not so, banks must have money ion deposit at a correspondent or the Fed, so a bank does not “create money” when it makes a loan. The Fed does when it prints Treasuries.
5. Fractional reserve banking is causing inflation also. When you make a depostit at your local bank, they are only required to keep a percentage of that amount in reserves. The rest can be loaned out at interest which creates money out of thin air.
Not so, see above. Banks must have money before it can make a new loan. If bank’s didn’t need money to make loans, how come banks fail when there are runs? Why not loan money (create money) for themselves to stay open. Also, banks maintain capital, so, in theory, all loans are fund from a prorata percentage of capital, deposits, and other funding sources.
6. The President has no real power, only the Banking Elite has the real power.
Normally people who discuss the “Banking Elite” add the modifier “Jewish.” Is that what you mean. My family has had many long term relationships with Jewish people who have served us and some of them have been fine people.
8. Gold and Silver is the only “real” money. Have you dummies checked the price of gold lately?
Gold and silver are commodities, not money.
9. NAFTA, or the North American Free Trade Agreement is one of the reasons why most of the American manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to other nations. We have a 40 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico?
No one listened to Ross Perot, but he was right and, in retrospect, Al Gore a fool.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
12:01 pm
Robert
Yup. And the partisans condemn it in the other Party but justify it in their own. Once in a while you come across someone who calls out their own Party. Not often, but it does happen. Which is why I prefer discussing ideas and policies, not defending the indefensible.
DAVID---AJC Truth Detector
January 5th, 2010
12:02 pm
JAY….Get a brain……….It is not about Health Care….It is about more GOVERNMENT CONTROL over our lives……JAY…….Boy….U R CLUELESS.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
12:02 pm
Robert, you’re right, many plans DO pay for such things — especially when the plan is employer-provided through a large company. That is the only real way to be assured of coverage in this country: working for a large company. Small businesses and individual entrepreneurs (like my friend) have much fewer choices in our current system, and the incidence of flat REFUSAL is rising. I have, myself been REFUSED coverage when I was between jobs for a common, easily-treatable condition, and I have watched many friends experience the same due to job losses in this economy. My point is this: THESE PEOPLE MATTER TOO. Y
Your point seems to be that if “most” people are okay, there’s no problem. (If that’s not your point, please correct me.) Mine is that it’s NOT okay for so many to fall through the cracks, especially when they’re trying to do the responsible thing. THESE PEOPLE MATTER TOO. This “competition” of which you speak has offerED more coverage for to more people for less money, as the argument supposes. If it did, the current debate would be moot.
JackLeg
January 5th, 2010
12:02 pm
You need to compare apples to apples, but what would a liberal know about that. The data collected from socialized medicine countries does not compare with the US data. They are relying of voluntary gathering of information from the US, so no matter that we are NOT comparing apples to apples; we have data that supports our view so let’s put it out there. Sounds like climatgate to me. For those of you that want socialized medicine feel free to move to Japan or Korea, what you don’t want to go? Why not if life is so good over there? Liberalism is a disease that a liberal wants to shove down everybody else’s throat. Look at the bill, isn’t it online for five days as promised? Where is the CSpan coverage of the debates as promised?
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
12:02 pm
Jenifer, I’m not sure how many abortions are “allowed”. But I do know that after the second overtime each college team has to go for the two point conversion after touchdown!
There is one thing that is breaking my heart though.
I’ve “learned” this morning that countless numbers of our US marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen are murderers.
Not to mention the murdering police, security personnel, federal and state agents, etc.
Zooks! No wonder we are such a lawless country!
And Robert is correct. As abysmal as this current GOP is, the Dems are fractionally better.
But given the realities of the post-BushCo world, this is where we are.
And almost none of you will ever quit your R/ D party ways…
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
12:03 pm
… sorry my blankie is interfering with the smoove operation of my keyboard.
jt
January 5th, 2010
12:05 pm
According to this article on AOL Health, the country with the world’s highest per capita cigarette consumption is Greece, with 3,000 cigarettes on average annually smoken by each adult. Yet the rate of heart disease in Greece is about 2/3 that of the U.S., and half that of Ireland. The Japanese have one of the highest smoking rates in the world, yet the rate of heart disease in Japan is one of the world’s lowest.
And yet, Japan is at the top of the list.
Smoke that ,,you smoking Nazis.
Del
January 5th, 2010
12:09 pm
UsinUK,
Can’t buy into the last piece of your argument pertaining to birth control, condom breakage etc. As for too many children as it relates to quality of life there are many quality adoption programs many that pay for the mothers care pre and post natal along with delivery/hospital expense. I know from experience.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
12:09 pm
Del
I know deals were cut back then. And payoff were made. But I think you’re correct in that they both at least worked together to get stuff done. I’ve said before, as much as Dems complained about DeLay, when they got Pelosi they got someone who could out-DeLay DeLay.
Not sure what it will take to change it, especially, citing AmVet at 12:02 “And almost none of you will ever quit your R/ D party ways…”
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
12:10 pm
Yeah, I can just see them now, the GOP’s 17 doozies of health “care”…
It would be fun to see the “best” of them. But…we all know that ain’t ever gonna happen here.
Maybe you guys can get Max Baucus to cut and run to the back room, closed door Big Tent!
Lobbied and paid off foxes guarding the American hen house.
Great…
DAVID---AJC Truth Detector
January 5th, 2010
12:11 pm
JAY……DO SOME RESEARCH…………..ON THE SUBJECT……..THEN WRITE YOUR PIECE…….WITH SOME KNOWLEDGE OF SUBJECT….
ken
January 5th, 2010
12:11 pm
I can’t remember where I saw it, but I saw a stat that said showed if you take away our auto deaths and gun shot deaths, we actually live the longest.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
12:11 pm
Matilda, I think you should look at the GOP’s proposal on helping small businesses get the best and cheapest health insurance. It is the core of their proposal, and would have benefited your friend. As far as your comment about how I must think it is okay that if most people are happy with their health care, then I must not be concerned with the rest…is not what I meant. Why completely turn health care upside down and make major changes when the majority is happy with what they have? That’s the point. For the rest, who are uninsured or who are not happy with their plans…I think working with the Republicans to fix this problem would have been a much better alternative than what we see (or not see as promised) as happening.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
12:13 pm
Paul
January 5th, 2010
11:35 am
Taxpayer 11:11
Why is a piece on the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit for me? I brought it up, when?
If you don’t like the drug benefit, tell your representative to repeal it. Or fix it. Dems have had several years to make changes. And haven’t
Healthcare legislation, Medicare Advantage, your worn out $500 billion dollar straw man, you mentioned all of it and kept claiming that I was not giving you anything other than the run around. So, please tell me that the Republicans are gonna use the repeal of the upcoming healthcare legislation in their campaign.
Anyway… Bye, Paul. You clearly are not interested in a real discussion so I won’t attempt again.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
12:14 pm
jt, “Smoke that, you smoking Nazis.” YEAH!
stands for decibels
January 5th, 2010
12:14 pm
Elections have consequences. This is the direction most Americans voted for. The bill the President signs won’t go far enough to reform private health insurance practices and manage our current single-payer programs (Medicare/Medicaid) but it will be a start, and most of us will be better off for it.
And that’s all I really have to say about that.
Dave R.
January 5th, 2010
12:15 pm
AmVet, they’ve been saying them for years, but you’d have to be listening to hear them – something you don’t do very well.
Needless to say, just because you don’t know about them or don’t like them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
12:16 pm
Taxpayer:
I do vent ……….. right here. Plus, it’s too cold to go outside.
Dave R.
January 5th, 2010
12:18 pm
TaxCheat complaining about someone not wanting to have a real discussion:
Pot – meet Kettle.
MichaelinAtlanta
January 5th, 2010
12:19 pm
The health care debate has shown us two things clearly: 1) the leadership class in this country (congress, the president, more or less the whole lot) works for big corporate interests and not for the best interest of the general population; and 2) while the general population has shown over and over that it favors universal coverage for health care, the leadership class is resolutely opposed to allowing that to happen.
jt
January 5th, 2010
12:20 pm
And this too, you anti-smoking anti-fat anti-sugar busy-body nanny state chump nazis—
Kitava is an island in Melanesia whose inhabitants have been studied fairly extensively, due to their low rates of diseases of civilization. At the Paleo Diet site, we read, “Amongst the traditional horticulturalists of Kitava, Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, hyperinsulinaemia and abdominal obesity are absent or rare.” Yet in the abstract to Cardiovascular risk factors in a Melanesian population apparently free from stroke and ischaemic heart disease: the Kitava study, we discover that
This study tested 151 males and 69 females aged 14-87 years with 76% and 80% smokers over 20 years.
And try telling one of the above natives to buckle up in their own private automoblie.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
12:21 pm
Robert, Matilda, I think you should look at the GOP’s proposal on helping small businesses get the best and cheapest health insurance.”
I would have LOVED to look at their proposals, which would of course have passed EASILY just a few years ago when the GOP had control of everything for several years. Of course, they did not give a rat’s fuzzy about the uninsured back then… or at any other time when the issue arose. DARNIT, if they’d just hurry up with that Time Machine over at Lockheed, Rep. Price and Sen. Isakson could hop in, go back, and fix this whole thing!
“Why completely turn health care upside down and make major changes when the majority is happy with what they have? That’s the point.”
I have to agree with you there. Problem is, the Dems don’t listen to me any more than my Repub reps do.
“For the rest, who are uninsured or who are not happy with their plans…I think working with the Republicans to fix this problem would have been a much better alternative than what we see (or not see as promised) as happening.” Sorry, but I have to call BS here. The GOP powerful made it clear from November 5th of last year that they would do everything in their power to ensure this initiative fails — regardless of what it entails. Period. As long as Obama is President, or any Dems hold seats in Congress, they’ll oppose reform of any kind, and we all know it. They said so themselves.
Sunshine and Thunder
January 5th, 2010
12:22 pm
America:
The birthplace of MacDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Domino’s Pizza, R.J. Reynolds, etcetera, etcetera. The American diet: hamburgers, fries and milk shakes. The five American food groups: Beer, ice cream, pretzels, mustard and valium.
The companies listed above provided jobs for millions of democrats and made thousands of people rich. The trade off: lower life expectancy for their customers who freely patrionized them.
Bud Wiser
January 5th, 2010
12:22 pm
ken
January 5th, 2010
12:11 pm
I can’t remember where I saw it, but I saw a stat that said showed if you take away our auto deaths and gun shot deaths, we actually live the longest.
So how does one classify all of the drive-by shootings in SW Atlanta, and all over the rest of the country?
And as far as health care, the only change I see from mister Dope and Chains is the cost of health care, and practically everything else, rising astronomically.
But, there is hope on the horizon……
The Democrats are systematically signing their own death warrants, at least for those up in the election cycle this year, meaning @ 1/3 of the Senate, and the entire House (that explanation was for the intellectually challenged from the left – don’t worry, someone will read and explain it to you if you like).
Obowo is already long since dissolved his 2012 reelection hopes, because even the dimwits that elected him the first time will have had their chance to see what paying 2 years of increased taxes, fees, cap and trade carbon charges, etc., etc., will have done to their pocketbooks.
Take away the generic dimwits beer, lottery and cigarette money for two years, and you will have the proverbial pi**ed off cat by the tail.
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
12:23 pm
So for the second time, elucidate me!
And for the second time, it would appear even you have no idea what they are.
OK, I would love to get edumacated on the GOP’s “plan” to save us from the current health “care” debacle, but SOMEBODY here has got to pay for the right wing moochers, the dual occupations and more corporate welfare!
Later, all…
JackLeg
January 5th, 2010
12:24 pm
Boy I can’t wait for all the FREE healthcare, paid for by the middle class taxes. Obozo is one big lie after another.
Williebkind
January 5th, 2010
12:26 pm
Ok was this healthcare graph created by progressive liberals. If so has it been tweeked to derive to a particular outcome (like climategate)? It looks like it has! I can not accept this graph because of its integrity. It was created by liberals.
Dave R.
January 5th, 2010
12:34 pm
Named three already, AmVet. But we’re into the “I don’t have to listen to anything someone else says” thing you do.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
12:34 pm
Robert
http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2010/01/04/skipping-conference-committee-what-does-it-mean/
Feel better now?
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
12:36 pm
Robert
a bit more
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/the-other-reason-skip-conference
Williebkind
January 5th, 2010
12:37 pm
Ok what is free now for the poor masses in America that people like AMVET keep screeching that we need to include. Let’s see!
Free Housing
Free Food
Free extended unemployment checks
a free stimulus check
money for babysitters
money for training
money for college
free healthcare by going to emergency room; just ask any of the illegals
free medicare/medicade
free or low cost prescriptions
Low interest loans (that usually does not get paid back)
Grants to minorities (this and extortion is how Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton became millionaires. Just wait Atlanta’s new mayor will be too)
Free power/electrical bills
wow I am getting sick to my stomack just looking at all this thinking how tough it was for me and my family living in Ga. Those receiving all that had it made.
Paul
January 5th, 2010
12:39 pm
Taxpayer
I take it your 12:13 was in in response to
Taxpayer 9:38
We’ve danced this dance before. I said ‘enough, good bye’ and even Jay said enough.
Then you went through your same routine with another blogger.
Then another. And Jay again asked you to give it a rest.
So post all you want. If you have something of substance I may engage. May not. You’ve already fooled me twice -
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks kindly, I am flattered!
bob
January 5th, 2010
12:46 pm
AMVET: “So for the second time, elucidate me!”
What do you consider the “Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act” and the Health Savings accounts that GEORGE W BUSH signed into law? As a independant contractor who has to buy health insurance after taxes, the HSA plan has saved me $1000’s of dollars a year in health care costs for the last few years.
Also, the GOP has a bill, and it will actually cut costs(unlike the current Democrat Health Care ENTITLEMENT Bill)
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
12:49 pm
1) That Christmas Day Bomber should have been on a military aircraft to Gitmo within the hour and “waterboarded” along the way to make sure there were no others that he knew about.
2) The administration failed the American people by not immediately grounding any passenger aircraft in case he was just one of many.
M Percy
January 5th, 2010
12:55 pm
I’ve never seen an answer to this question: does our “health care expenditures” as reported here and elsewhere include cosmetic surgery like breast implants and LASIK? I don’t think I have to go too far out on a limb to think that the USA spends *far* more on such things than other economies.
TnGelding
January 5th, 2010
12:56 pm
And it’s going to get worse if Congress has its way. We simply have to become smarter users of our health care dollars and stop making ourselves sick with unhealthy lifestyles.
Taxpayer
January 5th, 2010
12:58 pm
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
12:16 pm
I do vent ……….. right here. Plus, it’s too cold to go outside.
You call that venting! Dude! That’s nothing. You gotta really let loose. But I do agree about the temperature. Just imagine what it would be like without global warming.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
1:03 pm
Matilda,
Have you ever thought that the reason why Republicans have been against the Democrat’s healthcare proposals from the very beginning is because they know that the Democrat’s have an agenda for the government to control too much…and they can’t possibly go along with that. So, you may think the Republicans were not willing to work with the Democrats from the onset, but how can any Republican possibly work effectively with the party led by Pelosi and Reid? I wouldn’t be proud of either one of them or how they have acted throughout this debate.
The Republicans have drafted more than 30 healthcare bills. You probably don’t know much about them because they were never given a chance. How is stifling a party that represents roughly half the U.S. population doing any good for the Democrats long-term? It’s not. It’s alienating a huge portion of our population and they will not forget.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
1:09 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
12:34 pm
Robert
http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2010/01/04/skipping-conference-committee-what-does-it-mean/
Feel better now?
Mrs. Godzilla, what are you asking I feel better about? This link only proves that the Democrats are maneuvering themselves so that they will not have to be transparent. This proposal will affect us all. How is keeping it behind closed doors good for any of us? I would think even the Democrats would like to know what they are doing up there in D.C.
As quoted from your source:
“The move to conference would require multiple Senate votes on moving to conference and appointing conferees, all processes that are subject to cloture votes (60 votes) and require 30 hours of debate. Skipping conference eliminates these cloture votes and requires lawmakers to only cast votes on the final passage of the bill. While providing the speedier passage of the bill, skipping conference presents some transparency-related problems.”
LA
January 5th, 2010
1:10 pm
TW
January 5th, 2010
11:14 am
LA – more fat people in the No
TW LA – more fat people in the Northeast than in the South????
Never said there were more fat people in the Northeast. If you read my comments instead of trying to play GOTCHA then you’d have read where I wrote PHILLY!!!!!
Philly was voted fattest city two years in a row.
LA
January 5th, 2010
1:11 pm
AmVet
Abortion is murder. It is the killing of an unborn child.
When you approach a woman who is pregnant, do you say “when is your mass of cells due?”
Nope
M Percy
January 5th, 2010
1:11 pm
* About 10% of all health-care spending in the USA is obesity-related.
* Between 10 and 15% of all health-care spending in the USA is smoking-related.
* Health-care costs in the USA averaged $6,280 per person in 2004.
* Half of the population spends little or nothing on health care, while 5 percent of the population spends almost half of the total amount. Among this group, annual medical expenses (exclusive of health insurance premiums) equaled or exceeded $11,487 per person.
* In contrast, the 50 percent of the population with the lowest expenses accounted for only 3 percent of overall U.S. medical spending, with annual medical spending below $664 per person. Thus, those in the top 5 percent spent, on average, more than 17 times as much per person as those in the bottom 50 percent of spenders.
* The elderly (age 65 and over) made up around 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2002, but they consumed 36 percent of total U.S. personal health care expenses.
* A new study from the Mayo Clinic reports that intensive care accounts for 30 to 40 percent of hospital spending, with the majority of care given to elderly patients with chronic conditions.
M Percy
January 5th, 2010
1:13 pm
Even if you think health-care should be provided by the government, do you think every person in the US (notice I didn’t say citizen) should have unlimited benefits? Consider this article (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-liver13apr13,0,1683353,full.story) detailing some $2M of MediCal (California’s Medicaid) money spent on one illegal immigrant’s health care:
Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a third in 1998, each paid for by the state.
But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.
This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC doctor wrote, “Her current clinical course is irreversible, progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant.” The application was denied.
The county gave her medication but does not have the resources to perform transplants.
Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA.
The average cost of a liver transplant and first-year follow-up is nearly $490,000, and anti-rejection medications can run more than $30,000 annually, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which oversees transplantation nationwide.
LA
January 5th, 2010
1:16 pm
USinUK
LA, I’ve responded to you 3 times but the effing bot at them.
short response – abortion is a legal procedure – it should be included in the health care bill. as far as paying for things you don’t believe in, welcome to life in a Democracy. we all pay for things that we don’t agree with or believe in – ask any Quaker.
1: We are a republic. Not a democracy.
2: You don;t even live here.
3: I don;t want to pay for your abortion when you were too busy sleeping with some drunk guy at a bar in London.
4: Abortion is not health care.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
1:18 pm
Robert: “The Republicans have drafted more than 30 healthcare bills.”
Really? Wow. How many of them were drafted when the Republicans controlled Congress, Senate and the White House? How many of them were passed and signed into law, addressing the uninsured Americans that you say they care about? I am happy to wait while you research that number and get back to us.
BTW, I DO pay attention to what my Republican Congressman does. Want me to share? He spends his time flashing his face on Fox News and Facebook yammering all the time about how the Democrats are trying to hand over all our freedom to the government and/or terrorists. That is, when he’s not lunching/golfing with corporate lobbyists and his uber-rich friends. He’s made it very clear he does not give a darn about MY problems over the years. Crystal clear. I’m sure he appreciates your faith in him, though. DARN IT, HURRY UP WITH THAT TIME MACHINE!
The Nerve
January 5th, 2010
1:19 pm
“The five American food groups: Beer, ice cream, pretzels, mustard and valium”
Mustard is actually good for you.
Williebkind
January 5th, 2010
1:26 pm
Looking at your list I guess viagara is an exercise pill!!
Ridgerunner
January 5th, 2010
1:37 pm
Taxpayer:
The coldest weather I’ve ever been in was in Minnesota ………. high noon ……. no wind …….. bright sunshine ………. and minus 20 degrees.
However, the “coldest” I’ve ever been was almost on the equator in Vietnam ……… at night ……. soaking wet ……….. during the monsoon. Came very close to serious hypothermia. You have to have the right clothing and we didn’t.
Robert
January 5th, 2010
2:02 pm
Matilda,
You clearly will not even consider anything the Republicans have to offer. As far as what the Republicans did or did not do on healthcare during the Bush years is not really that relevant today. They have proposed over 30 bills, and get nothing. Laying blame on them is always the easy way out, and ignoring the false data now is somehow better?
DaveR said it best @ 11:53. “Even when Bush had a House and Senate majority GOP, he never had 60 votes in the Senate to stop a filibuster on closing debate. So even with a majority, the Dems were not going to let any bill through to a vote on any plan to control costs or provide better coverage that didn’t include government options the GOP didn’t want.”
If you have a problem with Fox News, then how come you watch it? You obviously did if you saw your senator interviewing with that network. Fox News is clearly right-leaning, but also provide a balance to the many left-leaning news organizations. You opposed to balance? Also, many of the news stories that broke this year were covered on FOX, but not the others. At least they are not withholding news.
Matilda
January 5th, 2010
2:19 pm
Robert, I suspect you’d rather squabble than discuss. Don’t pretend you didn’t hear Repub after Repub say they’d fight HC reform to the bitter end. OBVIOUSLY, the fact that I do indeed watch Fox News, (as well as the other news channels on a rotating basis, trusting no single source) indicates that I DO have an open mind and seek a balanced perspective. That I write to my Congressman even though he almost never votes the way I hope indicates my ongoing willingness to participate in our system.
Sorry, but HC reform was suggested as far back as Republican President Teddy Roosevelt. The fact that the recent Republican power coalition did NOTHING is indeed relevant. The cries for change were ignored for corporate favoratism. If it pacifies your need to snark, I’ll admit to not being pleased with the Dems’ solution so far. They’re wussines and rolled over on EVERYTHING Bush wanted for years, so there’s no water in that argument, Robert. Bottom line: Why would I trust the GOP when THEY HAD THE CHANCE AND DID NOTHING? Where’s the cred?
Robert
January 5th, 2010
3:03 pm
Matilda, Yes I heard Republicans say they would fight this health care reform offered up by the Democrats…because it is NOT A GOOD BILL! If you don’t like something, and know that it will end up providing a decrease in health care for the majority and an increase in costs for the majority, wouldn’t you fight it? I suppose you would rather the republicans roll over and quietly submit to the Democrats plan? How is that representing their constituents if they cave in? If you don’t know it, a lot of people in this country do not like either the house or senate’s bills.
I am not going to make excuses for what the Republicans did or didn’t do in the last decade as it relates to health care, but I do know what we have seen proposed by the Democrats and the methods they have gone about getting this rammed through has given them no cred as well. This is happening NOW, and what you keep referring to was years ago. Let’s talk about the present please. Afterall, it’s the present that we currently live in.
Linda
January 5th, 2010
3:30 pm
Last week the Mayo Clinic in Arizona announced it would no longer treat Medicare patients, not just new ones but current ones. The 3000 current Medicare patients there will need to either pay cash or find other doctors. The other Mayo clinics in Arizona, Florida & Minnesota have not joined in this decision. Medicare covered only about 50% of the cost of treatment at the Glendale clinic. The Mayo organization lost $840 M last year on Medicare. The best US doctors work at the best hospitals. Medicare patients will have to settle for less than the best. The reported $500 B in cuts to Medicare & physician reimbursement will result in more doctors & hospitals refusing to accept & retain Medicare patients.
Mr. Potato Head
February 28th, 2010
5:53 am
JB,
You’re partially correct in saying, “life expectancy is influenced by a whole range of factors in addition to the quality of health care”. Indeed! Consider these factors: a fast food business virtually on every street corner, with American’s working longer hours than their Euro counterparts, and processed foods fill US refrigerators. Europeans get out and walk to their local butchers & grocers, while American’s are more opt to drive those two blocks instead. The graph you refer to by WHO, 2000 simply shows that Americans eat unhealthy and exercise less, as the # 1 medical expense & killer among Americans is heart disease. Nothing will change this stat, irregardless of what ‘SYSTEM’ is in place, until Americans become healthier. So, what we need is ‘Big Mac’ reform.