Current U.S. health care system provides less for more
Over at fivethirtyeight.com, Andrew Gelman has posted an interesting graphic (see below) plotting the average life expectancy in Western industrialized countries against the per capita spending on health care in those countries. (The size of the circles reflects the average number of doctor visits per capita in each country, another category in which the US lags.)
Granted, life expectancy is influenced by a whole range of factors in addition to the quality of health care. But look how far out there the United States is on cost alone. By any measure, we are grossly inefficient in health-care delivery compared to our industrialized competitors.
In normal circumstances, you’d look at a graph like that and wonder whether we ought to be doing what our competitors are doing. Certainly, that’s what any corporate CEO would do if confronted by data such as this. But we Americans are not supposed to acknowledge that other countries may be doing something smarter and better than the United States, because we all know — chant it together now class — “the United States has the greatest health care system in the world.”
And of course, if we ever did dare look at how other countries manage to provide more health care at less cost, we’d find that in almost every case they do by treating health care more as a public utility than as a private industry.
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277 comments Add your comment
Jenifer
January 5th, 2010
9:37 am
Universal health insurance now!
Capt Underpants
January 5th, 2010
9:41 am
Universal OboboCare NEVER!
The Iranians give big nose Kerry the smackdown…LOL!!
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:43 am
Yeah, but we’re Christians
GoingBroke
January 5th, 2010
9:44 am
Seems to me that its not just a healthcare issue.. We have a bunch of overweight people that sit on their butts all day long.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:45 am
Jay what would be interesting would be also a ranking of the effectiveness of each country’s health care system.
Are the costs shwn comosite costs or just personal or employers costs?
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
9:45 am
my favorite right-wingnut argument to date for the pay more/lower life expectancy: “yeah, but it’s just because we have more gun crime”
wheeeeeeeeee!!!
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
Jay’s analysis:
Socialist health care= good
Private insurance= evil
Bottom line: I highly doubt Jay Bookman would skip his own AJC paid for doctor to travel to France for a hip replacement.
pat
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
And pretty soon we’ll get even less for even more…You realize that it would have been cheaper for the governement to buy every single uninsured person insurance than it is to implement this debotchery of a plan. That’s how stupid it is. It’s cheaper to buy the insurance than it is to screw up healthcare even more.
When you want to take something bad and make it ten times worse, put a democrat in charge.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
9:46 am
I saw this graph this morning…..
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/4/821836/-Buy-More,-Get-Less,-Die-Sooner
Call it like it is.
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
Oh I don’t think it all that big of a secret. We spend a lot of money, true, but American has become “LAZY” our eating habits stink, we don’t work out, we worship our ipods and computers and on and on and on.
Its not the money we are spending, its our lifestyle. Hey Jay see if you can find a graph on how much Coke the average American drinks compare to the other countries. Also our work habits. Americans work theirselves to death. Even the AJC was talking about this yesterday, something like over 65% of us didnt use their full vacation time. Whats up with that.
People you work to live, You don’t live to work. Get out, eat better, live better, be better.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
My favorite left wing argument for socialist health care is it’s free for all and no one will have to worry about where the money will come from to pay for it.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
Are the costs shown composite costs or just personal or employers costs?
Sorry, my fingers haven’t caught up to my mind on too much coffee!
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
“Seems to me that its not just a healthcare issue.. We have a bunch of overweight people that sit on their butts all day long.”
And to combat this, GA has no middle school PE requirement and high school requires only one semester.
Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:47 am
DAILY KOS!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
And libs howl and scream about FOX NEWS!
Liberals: Do as I say not as I do!
Joan
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
Tort reform is the answer. If doctors could just perform those tests they truly felt were necessary costs would be tremendously reduced. If doctors didn’t have to pay $250,000 per year for malpractice insurance, they wouldn’t have to pass on the costs to patients. If Americans would get off their butts, lose weight, tone up and take some responsibility for their lives, we would cut healthcare costs by 1/3.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
TW writes: Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’
Sure, and please relay your message to Barney Frank.
TW
January 5th, 2010
9:48 am
LA – the money will come from you.
Don’t like it? Adios
Paul
January 5th, 2010
9:49 am
Jay
I pretty much agree on this.
As far as “n normal circumstances, you’d look at a graph like that and wonder whether we ought to be doing what our competitors are doing. Certainly, that’s what any corporate CEO would do if confronted by data such as this.”
A question I’d asked from the start: why didn’t we, or more specifically, the Democrats in charge of the process, do this?
They did manage to get themselves mired down in the muck of responding to “Canada! UK! Socialism!!!” but I do not recall any examination of any models that would be adaptable to our system, such as the Swiss model (private insurance and regulation, regulation, regulation, regulation so it approaches the public utility concept).
You asked a good question. Too bad Democrats ignored it.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:50 am
TW,
But that’s just basically stereotyping. Not everyone in the south is fat. Ever been to Philly? It was named America’s fattest city and Philly ain’t no right-wing machine.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
TW, LA – the money will come from you.
And it will come from you as well. If not, see you in prison!
AmVet
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
Disgraceful.
Join me as we recite, “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Corporations of America. And to the P&L Statement for which they stand, one multi-national, under a green god, with liberty and justice for some.”
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
9:51 am
I guess Tila Tequila’s was to be wife no longer needs worry about OboboCare.
FrankLeeDarling
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
Well,we have outsourced everything else,why not healthcare.
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
Nice job AmVet!!! *APPLAUSE*
I like it!
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
9:52 am
“Somebody please tell the GOP that fat, stupid, and lazy ain’t cool no mo’”
I believe it’s mostly the Democrats sitting on their ars watching Springer wanting the handouts.
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Joan, do doctors that run additional tests make more money by doing so?
Southern Comfort
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Seems to me like the Japanese have something figured out. How many obese Japanese have you ever come across?
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:53 am
Peadawg writes: I believe it’s mostly the Democrats sitting on their ars watching Springer wanting the handouts.
Mostly? No, more like 90% of the Democrat voting base is sitting on their arse watching Springer, eating Twinkies and complaining about their welfare checks.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:54 am
Southern Comfort
sumo wrestlers come to mind.
Besides, they eat a lot of fish and rice. Mmmmmmmmmmm
USinUK
January 5th, 2010
9:55 am
all I can say is that I’m appalled whenever I fly to the states – while we have are catching up with the US on obesity, you just don’t see the numbers of HUGELY obese people here that you do there.
and the difference definitely isn’t because of diet (helloooooo fish-n-chips, sausages, crisps, biscuits, etc) — I really think it’s because it’s so much more pedestrianized here. Even if you drive to the high street to shop, you still have centralized parking that requires you to walk to your destination rather than right-outside-the-door / minimal walking needed parking.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
Q: What’s the difference between a Democrat and a catfish?
A: One is an ugly, scum sucking bottom-feeder and the other is a fish.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
USinUK, it’s because the food in the UK sucks so bad. That’s why the UK doesn’t have a large population.
Mrs. Godzilla
January 5th, 2010
9:56 am
Oh goody!
We get to see a rehash of the old crap again!
Can we get a “whup whup” for tort reform?
And a “hip hip hooray” for death panels?
And a “go go go” gulags!
Dear Loyal Opposition:
Please run on a platform to repeal healthcare.
Salt & Light
January 5th, 2010
9:57 am
TW:
“Perspective ……………. ”
Mark 14:
“Jesus was in Bethany. He was at the table in the home of a man named Simon, who had a skin disease. A woman came with a special sealed jar of very expensive perfume. It was made out of pure nard. She broke the jar open and poured the perfume on Jesus’ head. Some of the people there became angry. They said to one another, “Why waste this perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s pay. The money could have been given to poor people.” So they found fault with the woman. “Leave her alone,” Jesus said. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. You will always have poor people with you. You can help them any time you want to. But you will not always have me. “
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:57 am
USinUK, Chicago and NYC are the same way. They were designed that way.
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:58 am
Mrs. Godzilla: rehash of the old crap
LA
January 5th, 2010
9:58 am
Q: What is a recent Democrat graduate’s usual question in his first job?
A: What would you like to have with your french fries, sir?
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
9:59 am
Peadawg/LA: And your master Rush is in fantastic shape! What a stupid stereotypical reaction you have posted! And to think , you watch Springer! What trash!
Road Scholar
January 5th, 2010
10:00 am
LA: I must add that it was a UGA Democratic graduate!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:01 am
Road Scholar, Rush Limbaugh is my master?
Well, at least my master is a multimillionaire.
You none too bright is ya Road Kill?
Sam
January 5th, 2010
10:01 am
jay, sometimes less is more. not in this case, but sometimes..i say we do nothing and see waht happens. its goten us this far. and like you said ‘we have the best healthcare system in the world’…the more i say it, the more i believe it.
Outhouse Go-Kart
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
LOL LA
Peadawg
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
Road Scholar, I actually have a job. I don’t sit on my butt watching trash t.v. and wait for my handout. Thanks for trying though!!!
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:02 am
Road Kill writes: I must add that it was a UGA Democratic graduate
1: Never heard of a democratic graduate. Is that the equivalent of a degree in jogging?
2: UGA! LOL No wonder your comments are off.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:03 am
Road Kill, I think you need to give that UGA democratic degree back to Vince Dooley.
Angry Black Man
January 5th, 2010
10:04 am
I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama. I don’t like Obama either but here is what’s really wrong with the country, see below:
I am greatful for my job, however, the people in this country do not understand monetary policy and the detrimental things that banks, the federal reserve and the federal government are doing to destroy the dollar and the economy. Here is my list of top 10 things most Americans are oblivious to:
1. The creation of money out of thin air is inflating the money supply and will cause hyperinflation, just wait. Most of you idiots still think we’re on the gold standard, if you even know what that means!
2. The Federal Reserve and the IRS income tax are both unconstitutional. The US Constitution gave the power to create currency to Congress but these crooks gave the power to the Federal Reserve.
3. Democrat vs. Republican- Hey you idiots? Have you ever heard of political atheism? Democrats and Republicans alike have both done severe damage to the American way of life. Don’t you dummies get it? The Elite bankers who control everything (media, government, etc) want bickering and fighting amongst the people. Think about it, as long as we are divided politically, we can never achieve real change, dummies!
4. Money is debt and debt is money. Most of idiots do not understand where money comes from. Of course the mint prints currency, but that’s not what I’m referring to. Each time a back makes a loan, new money is created. Did you know that? Money is created out of debt!
5. Fractional reserve banking is causing inflation also. When you make a depostit at your local bank, they are only required to keep a percentage of that amount in reserves. The rest can be loaned out at interest which creates money out of thin air.
6. The President has no real power, only the Banking Elite has the real power. Obama is nothing more than a puppet and you dumb ass white people are still talking about him being a Socialist. Obama is the least of our problems.
7. Most politicians do not understand monetary policy and they are nothing but crooks who take bribes from lobbyists. The politicians in DC are only interested in fattening their pockets. Think about it-Why would a politician spend millions of dollars to fund a campaign for a six figure salary?
8. Gold and Silver is the only “real” money. Have you dummies checked the price of gold lately? Of course not, I know you had to catch the last episode of ” Dancing with the Stars” or “Desperate Housewives” or maybe “American Idol” re-runs. The dumbing down of America is obvious as most Americans probabaly do not know their state governor.
9. NAFTA, or the North American Free Trade Agreement is one of the reasons why most of the American manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to other nations. We have a 40 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico? Do you know why? America doesn’t make anything, I mean anything! What do we produce? We only produce hate, not products that could be exported and traded on the open market. Hey dummies, ever wondered why most items in your house say “Made in China” or “Made in Mexico”. That’s why!
10. Cap and trade is nothing but a huge tax increase on energy production. I’m a black African-American male and I think Ron Paul would’ve been the best President for this nation. A lot of white people are stupid and just don’t like Obama because he is black. You should not like Obama because he doesn’t understand monetary policy and is ruining our currency with continuous bailouts and federal spending.
Republicans and Democrats are nothing but idiots who do not understand the real problems in this country. Be a Political Atheist and do what’s right for this country, not what appeals to a party. Dummies!
Sincerely,
Angry black Man
RW-(the original)
January 5th, 2010
10:04 am
Actually a businessman worth his salt would ask for the data behind the graph before rushing out to overhaul his business. I just followed every link that supposedly took you to the dataset and they all took me to ways to make the picture except one. That one seems to go to a spreadsheet with lots of data entry categories but again no data.
I think I’ll head to the cold, cold forest and sit the rest of this one out, although if someone has the actual data behind this graph I’ll have a look when I get back.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:05 am
Peadawg, I think Road Kill is ashamed of his democratic degree from UGA.
Woof Woof!!!!!!! We’z won da Shreveport Bowl over Texas A&M!!!!! Sick em’ dawgs!
getalife
January 5th, 2010
10:05 am
So, Romney’s book tour called ” No Apology” starts but Steele, Pat and Palin are saying the gop establishment needs to go.
The gop civil war, if you will.
cons vs the gop establishment.
I will have to go with the cons on this one.
LA
January 5th, 2010
10:06 am
Angry Black Man writes: I am black and sick of white people hating on Obama.
Hate to break it to you Black Man, but this white boy voted for that black/white man and I am sick of his inept ability to lead.
Bottom line: Oh well.