Cold? It might be even colder if not for global warming

First!

And right as usual!

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as I keep saying … snow in January does not disprove global warming. snow in July? then, you’d have a point.

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Red meat for the cons.

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I made a similar point in a column last month, noting that 24 out of the 31 daily record highs for December had been set just in the last 25 years, while we set only 3 record lows in that time frame.

And just as it was in the column last month those record highs and record lows are only records within a fraction of time so small as to be laughable. Just what fraction of 100’s of millions of years is 150 or so years anyway?

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No doubt the record high thermometers are located in some end of the world kook’s oven.

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Sorry, Jay,but if man is truly the cause of global warming as all you libs say, and we have more of us on the planet each year and have done nothing to change our ways, then there is absolutely NO WAY for temperatures to ever go down from one year to the next.

Climate change is due to many factors, and man might be responsible for a small portion of it, but it is more likely that the Sun was putting out more energy during the warming years than it is now. And maybe all that data about the other uninhabited planets in our Solar System also increasing in temperature during the same timeframes might point out that simple little theory as well.

Either way, if man is responsible, there is no way for temps to drop any year from previous years and they have. Your pet theory is junk science, promulgated by the libs and justified by the government-paid “scientists” who wouldn’t have a job if not to try to keep the funding going.

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Oh yeah, and I wish I had remembered the name of that tool Bret Hume was interviewing yesterday, who finally came out and said that these cold spells were predicted by global warmers 2 years ago……

The idiots warmers now claim that heat causes cold…..and heat causes more heat.

Now that’s a string of irrefutable logic no one could possibly counter, if of course the premise were accepted as factual.

Which it is not.

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“f there is such a thing as man-made global warming, and we have more humans on the planet than in previous years, and have done nothing to change our ways environmentally in the past few years, how can temperatures possible get colder from one year (or years) to the next?”

I think that’s on a plaque in the ‘w’ library

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It’s all just a bunch of bad thermometer readings. There are more thermometers now, therefore the probability of a bad readings has gone up. Some thermometers are located next to asphalt parking lots and other man made structures that cause the temperature to rise locally. http://www.surfacestations.org/odd_sites.htm

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Jen…are you sure it’s not the Devil? All that heat, you know!

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Dave R.’s argument above makes more sense than any I’ve seen in a long time.

If man is causing warming, every day the temp should be rising….

Wait….

There are suddenly more of those fluffy not-so-little polar bears than previously thought…

Burlington, Vt, set a single snowfall record for one day, @33″, that exceeded anything ever since record keeping has been done there. ….

So far this season Nashville, TN, has had a mean average temperature lower than that of Caribou, Maine (but without the snowfall)….

It snowed in Houston Texas in December, the first recorded snowfall in over 40 years….

Average temps in Seoul, S Korea, are running at record cold rates….

Europe is significantly colder, with more snowfall this year, than in decades….

And to believe the warmers, man-made global warming is causing it all.

Only a left brained idiot could possibly believe that crap, but then again these are the same morons that are electing Dopes with Chains, keeping Al Gore in dinner (and private jet) money, and contributing to every green cause on the planet.

You want to know what else is so sick about these people?

I saw, as I am sure many of you have seen lately, these ads on TV about ‘Save the Child’ and similar groups, all I’m sure that may be worthwhile….. well, there are also ads to (sic) “Save the Animals” (dogs/cats/birds/whatever).

Does anyone besides me wonder why you can save a child for ‘…less than a dollar a day…’, but that the animal rights saviors want just…”less than 2 dollars a day…’?

Am I missing something here? Maybe because with Obowocare now the value of a human life has now devalued to less than your neighbor Barney’s pet parakeet?

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Careful, Bookman, lest Dave R. drag out the “I was an elected official” card and drop it on you.

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“Jen…are you sure it’s not the Devil? All that heat, you know!”

You may be on to something. I can just see that devil stoking the fire with his pitchfork.

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“as I keep saying … snow in January does not disprove global warming. snow in July? then, you’d have a point.”

What about March..is that good enough for ya?

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Sometimes journalists go through cold spells and hot spells, just as all great hitters do.

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Mrs. Godzilla

Your sorry attempt at a joke made absolutely no since and didn’t even get a smile. Nice try though.

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Keep fighting the good fight, Jay.

Didn’t George W. Bush even finally concede (once it was too late for him to actually try to do something about it, of course) that global warming was happening and that manmade greenhouse gases appear to the be cause? Shouldn’t his acceptance be enough proof for some of these deniers? They believed him about everything else.

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“but dropped that pledge once elected.”

How many has Obama dropped/not kept promises on? I’ll check back tomorrow once you count that high.

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Peadawg

I was really hoping no one was going to post that as the rejoinder is usually used. But since you did, can you look at it this way?

If Pres Bush acknowledged a mistake, adopted to changing circumstances, changed his mind and said so publicly, doesn’t that speak to his character? Doesn’t the same hold true for Pres Obama?

Later -

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Hi Midori!!!!!

Now I really am gone -

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Global warming has become a fetish or maybe a religion to the far-left. If you question the validity of man created global warming you will be called a denier and scorned as an undesirable human being much like if you don’t fully embrace the theory of evolution. Global warming or climate change has not been proven beyond the fact that the climate has changed and fluctuated throughout the history of this planet.

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“Do we really want a transgender presidential appointee who uses the phrase, “Being the first sucks” ?”

Well, that is change.

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How many has Obama dropped/not kept promises on? I’ll check back tomorrow once you count that high.

I’m sure you’ve been introduced to this handy-dandy Obameter, but if not…

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

Seriously, why do you guys keep on trying to flog that dead horse?

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What gets me about most of these global warming deniers is that they are all so absolutely certain that there’s no global warming, even though they’re not climate scientists. That’s the big clue that tells me that they have no idea of what they’re talking about.

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“What gets me about most of these global warming deniers is that they are all so absolutely certain that there’s no global warming, even though they’re not climate scientists”

How about this for ya…What gets me about most of these global warming “enthusiast”(I couldn’t think of a good word) is that they are all so absolutely certain that there is global warming, even though they’re not climate scientists

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It’s really getting sickening, but every temperature event that happens, hot or cold, natural disaster or not, the global warming almarists somehow use it to support their theory. They conveniently blotted out the medieval warming period which was warmer than any temps in the past decade, and they have gotten caught repeatedly in lies and baseless extraordinary predictions that never come true, such as John Holdren, Obama’s science czar, who said sea levels would rise 13 feet. In that time period, they rose 7 to 23 inches.

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I know it’s a bit to read, but worth it if you want to be enlightened.

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/072609/opi_470890613.shtml

“Flash forward to 2008, when the airport saw more than 90 million passengers and more than 978,000 takeoffs and landings – a round-the-clock average of 111 operations per hour. Today, the airport covers 4,700 acres, or 7.3 square miles. That’s 28 percent of the size of 1920s’ Atlanta and 16 airports the size of Candler Field.

Not only that; nearly 30,000 public parking spaces are at the airport and 30 shuttle services operate from the airport, along with about 55,000 employees.

What’s the significance of these soaring numbers? This is the tip of the iceberg – or the heat island, so to speak. Since 1928, Atlanta’s official weather station has been located at the airport. Its location – impacted by the urbanization, traffic, runways and the removal of vegetation at the airport and surrounding areas – affects its readings, today and historically. And that is critical as government, scientists and activists seek to base policy on climate trend data generated by Atlanta’s and other such temperature stations.

The same holds true for readings from stations in urban areas such as Macon, Athens and Columbus, which are microclimates, impacted by infrastructure, and are risky markers for climate change trends. Surface thermometers that were once in rural or remote areas reflect higher temperatures as urbanization’s effects encroach.

A photograph of Atlanta’s airport weather station from the National Weather Service shows the runway lights next to the station. Watts’ study, which can be found at http://www.heartland .org/books/PDFs/Surface Stations.pdf, shows two Georgia stations. One, in Gainesville, is between two driveways and one in Tifton is near a road, sidewalk and air-conditioning units. That wasn’t always the case, but changing conditions impact the consistency of data-gathering, reduce the effect of comparisons and artificially bolster the case for global warming.

As the Heartland Institute notes on its Web site, “The conclusion is inescapable: The U.S. temperature record is unreliable,” Watts’ study finds. “And since the U.S. record is thought to be ‘the best in the world,’ it follows that the global database is likely similarly compromised and unreliable.”

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“Seriously, why do you guys keep on trying to flog that dead horse?”

Because flogging a live one can get your head kicked in?

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Taxpayer, are you a climatologist?

If so, what University did you earn your degree?

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AmVet-Bagasauruses…

Now, I was under the impression that teabagger was a banned word. Seems to me that AmVet ain’t none too bright.

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Peadawg

‘Fraid so.

Climate change really isn’t funny.

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After I saw that cute Noah Wylie on TV warning about the fate of the polar bears I just knew global warming was the sh**. After all that he’s a doctor isn’t he?

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Al Gore buys carbon offsets to greatly reduce his carbon footprint, so the net effect of his flying around is negligible. But the deniers never bother to mention that.

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Where’s that dude who said he had a democratic degree from UGA?

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well if the heartland institute say’s so..i guess its all a hoax. wait a minute, did the heritage foundation concur?

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Jay

NASCAR site?

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If you don’t want to check facts or science about global warming and it causes – fine. But to state that there is NO possible way that global warming is happening because it is cold out today (& this week) is absolutely ridiculous.

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I scoop ;~] Uleak :~o, yes, a man who failed out of Vanderbilt is MUCH smarter that Einstein, who by the way, invented the Atom Bomb.

Why do you hate gays?

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Thanks for this article, Jim. It’s nice to read one that tries to gather facts and analyze them in a scientific way.

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whoops, I meant Thanks, Jay, not Thanks, Jim.

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Eee Haw !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

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Scrappy – Please review a little of the evidence for global cooling and get back with me. http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=8012

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“practical reasons for being a non-believer of global warming?”

Waste of money to research something that isn’t real. But hey, that’s what Democrats are about right? Even when they say they will cut wasteful spending during their campaign.

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Lord Help Us,

Well of course you’re stating a supposition. Do you really think Gore and Lieberman would be on the same page regarding Iraq? Surpluses, you can thank Reagan for the peace dividend resulting from ending the cold war and a Republican Congress that helped Clinton resist pressure coming from his own party to tax and spend.

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Congrats says: Would someone kindly explain the practical reasons for being a non-believer of global warming?

Practical reasons:

1: We’re sane people who don’t believe a guy who says he invented the internet.

2: Even if it were true, which it isn’t, there is nothing we can do about it.

3: We don’t want to give up meat to save some San Fran liberal who lives off his/her conservative mom and dad’s money.

4: carbon offsets make absolutely no sense.

5: Hippies smell.

6: We like warm weather.

7: Al Gore is ugly.

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I scoop ;~] Uleak :~o,

what put downs and who’s bullying?

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LOL LA!

PS…next thing we know Jay will be telling us he too is transgender or shemale or transfixed or whatever it is or was or supposed to be…oh, nevermind.

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Lord – The dotcom bubble burst and resulting recession was inevitable no matter who was elected in 2000. However, Gore probably wouldn’t have committed all those troops to Iraq or promoted the huge tax cut for the rich.

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Lighten up y’all, here’s a funny for ya…

We were dressed and ready to go out for
the New Years Eve Party. We turned on
a night light, turned the answering machine on,
covered our pet parakeet and put the cat in
the backyard.

We phoned the local cab company and
requested a taxi.
The taxi arrived and we opened the front
door to leave the house.

The cat we put out in the yard, scoots back
into the house.. We didn’t want the cat shut in the house
because she always tries to eat the bird.

My wife goes out to the taxi,
while I went inside to get the cat. The
cat runs upstairs, with me in hot pursuit.
Waiting in the cab, my wife
doesn’t want the driver to know that
the house will be empty for the
night. So, she explains to the taxi driver
that I will be out soon,
‘He’s just going upstairs to say goodbye to my mother.’

A few minutes later, I get into the cab.
‘Sorry I took so long,’
I said, as we drove away. ‘That stupid
bitch was hiding under the bed. I had to poke her with a
coat hanger to get her to come out! She tried to take off,
so I grabbed her by the neck. Then, I had to wrap her in a
blanket to keep her from scratching me. But it worked! I
hauled her fat ass downstairs and threw her out into the back yard!’

The cab driver hit a parked car.

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“Gore probably wouldn’t have committed all those troops to Iraq or promoted the huge tax cut for the rich.”

No, Gore would have armed our borders with troops to fight MANBEARPIG.

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doggone – As I’ve learned through several posts you have neither the intellect or education to attempt to teach me anything. FYI gravity is neither a theory nor a scientific theory, primarily because the data supporting it is vastly more verifiable than the global warming data. But since you’re so smart, please tell me why the average global temperature only increased 0.1 degrees Celsius from 1900 to 1950 despite the huge population increase and CO2 emissions (everyone was burning wood and coal)?

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“I’ll ask again, why is global warming research causing such a stinker for non-believers?”

And I’ll say it again…Waste of money to research something that ISN’T REAL. What part of ISN’T REAL did you not understand? I’m guessing all of it.

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Jake

An a good afternoon to you to!

(course good is just an opinion)

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God loves us and wants us to be warm.

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Taxpayer, no but I do have a pretty young lady who cuts my hair.

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“Waste of money to research something that ISN’T REAL.”

Yeah? Well, we didn’t REALLY find out the moon WASN’T made of green cheese until we went there, did we?

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I scoop ;~] Uleak :~o, weird, I had a job writing greeting cards for Hallmark.

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seen that Anthony Watts get spanked a bunch a’ times.

they call him the climate crock!

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Lots of ’scientists’ working for the tobacco industry used to say that nicotine is not addictive and can be good for you.

Thank goodness we did a little research on that issue…

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“Yeah? Well, we didn’t REALLY find out the moon WASN’T made of green cheese until we went there, did we?”

I never once though that. And Lord help the person who did. It doesn’t look like green cheese to begin with. Nice try though. Next?

Congrats, you’re hopeless.

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LA, I can see why you don’t have that job anymore…everybody likes a little a$$, but nobody like a wi$ea$$…

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The devil is doing his part to keep us warm also. The fire is seeping up through the ground and warming us. Thank you, Mr. Devil.

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Normal, I had that job out of college. Pretty funny job.

Lord Help Us, you are one strange woman.

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“LA, thanks to the pollutants causing global warming we can see the air we breathe better now too…LOL!!!!”

Only when it’s cold.

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writing for hallmark, now it all makes perfect sense. spouting lameness and leaking useless/brainless rhetoric, i guess it never quite leaves your system.

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i actually wish i went to uga, every time i’ve been there its been a blast, all the graduates seem to rave about it, the education is getting better…seems pretty good to me.

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Sam, yeah but I guess my degree doesn’t match up to your UGAY democratic degree.

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Sam, I must have you mixed up with TW.

Anyhoo, sorry about that. Who are you again?

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“Lighten up y’all, here’s a funny for ya…”

Hysterical!

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What’s hilarious is that this is a theoretical discussion about global warming, fact or fiction, and the sides are almost universally aligned with their political position.

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Lord – I agree with that, but I’d expect more about the sacredness of all the human lives on this special planet from you. After all, come warm or come cool, the planet will still be here. Ever think that if we’d just wipe all the scum off the streets and start over mankind might be a kinder, gentler species?

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Jake

January 5th, 2010
2:17 pm

Or perhaps aligned with their monetary relinquishment, or lack thereof, side.

Its all about control and grandiose idiocy by the likes of so called experts like The Goron.

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“invented the internet”

Never let a good lie die

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Jake

por vous

http://www.rep.org/index.html

http://greenlibertarian.net/index.php/core-issues/52-environment

universal…..

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Kinda like your green cheese lie?

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Oh brother, really? Tell me your joking for the love of sadie?

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Lord Help Us, someone mentioned that you were into weird stuff. Never mind.

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Over the holidays I was back home in Dallas going through some old family photos from the ’30s through ’60s. They were all taken in East and West Texas, and the Metroplex.

We all noted the amount of snow that used to fall, and discussed how tire chains were necessary through the early ’70s or so. Now they’re rusting up in tow sacks.

Here in our part of CO the snowstorms are fewer and dump less snow. I’ve been able to plant several varieties of vegetation that the natives tell me won’t survive; they’re doing fine for going on five years now, albeit with some heavy mulching and a little extra care.

Is global warming caused by human beings? Does it matter? My vote goes toward making changes that err on the side of caution, prevention and progress. Short-term growing pains be damned, the next generations deserve it.

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The Nerve, yeah but Palin didn;t lie about it. She can see Russia from her house.

AL GORE is too busy chasing after MANBEARPIG!!!!!!!

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LA, is fishing weird?

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If the technology and capabilities that exist today, had indeed existed back during Huronian Ice age and Cryogenian Ice age; we might be living in a different kind of world.

I’m sure there were warning signs…. just like Eve was warned about the forbidden fruit.

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Lord – I was thinking more like getting rid of the neocon pro-war, anti global warming scum.

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Green Jeans: “Is global warming caused by human beings? Does it matter? My vote goes toward making changes that err on the side of caution, prevention and progress. Short-term growing pains be damned, the next generations deserve it.”

Thank you! I also wonder what the heck is so objectionable about clean air, water, and land? Why does the idea of discovering and implementing CLEAN forms of energy bring such harsh criticism? How many loved ones must a person watch suffer and die from cancer before thinking, “Gee, toxins are bad for us, aren’t they?”

Jimminy H. Christmas on Peppermint Stick, y’all!! Going forward into the clean and green (and marketing the new technology to countries like China) is a win-win-win-win proposition, regardless of your religious, political, or scientific beliefs. Seriously, WTF?

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Lord Help Us:

You can go back and find old t.v. cigarette commercials with “doctors” saying they are “just fine”.

If you have ever spent much time in the courtroom, you know you can find “expert testimony” that will have opposite opinions. Money buys anything. In this case, it’s political correctness and the fear of being “blacklisted” by your liberal counterparts.

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“So by saying we didn’t find out who is the we you are speaking of?”

We? anyone who ever heard that the moon was made of green cheese. Can you really not figure that one out for yourself?

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Mrs. G – Merci. I’ve actually read a fair amount on the subject. I posted a link to a very respectable and unbiased source above that has evidence showing we’ve been cooling since about 2000 and the cause of the 1950-2000 warming was actually CFC’s not CO2. Did you know CFC’s in the atmosphere retain like three magnitudes of the heat CO2 does? I’m not screaming global warming is a myth, I’m saying it’s unproven. But what I really feel strongly about is that if global warming exists and if it actually represents a serious threat to life as we know it (wouldn’t longer growing seasons in Canada and Russia be a good thing?) O’s cap and trade proposals would not solve the problem. Just like the current health care legislation will not vastly improve out health care, and it certainly won’t reduce health care costs below 16% of GDP. I’m concerned that the newly empowered Dems will now push through another ill-conceived piece of legislation that we don’t really need primarily in the name of increasing government intervention into our daily lives. As a nation we are much dumber and much more dependent on Uncle Sam than we were in my youth, and I think that’s a bad and potentially very dangerous thing. Y2k will be the end of us all an dnow the earth is warming and the sky is falling and only the Dems can save us by appointing another 100 or 200 czars of global warming, cap and trade and universal health care oversight.

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one of the last lines in the above video….

the folks that told us WMD’s were real are now telling us climate change is not.

don’t be fooled again.

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Lord – It appears you believe in god and that life is more or less sacred. I believe in myself and my family and my country. The jihadists want to convert or kill all the non-believers or die trying. Due to America’s financial success, imperialist foreign policy, and zionist sympathies we have become the jihadist’s favorite target. So while you are disgusted by my willingness to throw out the wheat with the chaff (not that some 10th or 16th century Arabs are exactly prize wheat) I tell you it’s the only solution certain to eliminate the jihadist threat/problem. Just think of all the reductions in carbon emissions eliminating a billion Muslims would bring about!

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“Is global warming caused by human beings? Does it matter? My vote goes toward making changes that err on the side of caution, prevention and progress. Short-term growing pains be damned, the next generations deserve it.”

If you and Matilda had a clue about what this global climate change farce is all about you might just have a different opinion. I cant beleive some of you are to gullible, so trusting of the US GOVT, the EU, the UN etc.

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PS…and all these other global chowder heads.

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Jake, when your solutions to problems are wildly immoral, delusional AND impossible…perhaps it is time to either change medications, perform a lobotomy on yourself, commit yourself to a proper institution OR (perish the thought)…rethink your position.

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oops! LHU!

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Did someone mention radiative forcing of greenhouse gases.Here. Perhaps this will help.

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“I cant beleive some of you are to gullible, so trusting of the US GOVT, the EU, the UN etc.”

Speak for yourself, poo receptacle. I wasn’t gullible enough to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11, that the Saudis are our friends, that KBR had the soldiers’ safety in mind when building electrified showers, that wiretapping US citizens without warrants was essential to our safety, that nobody knows what happened to the billion$ in Iraq, that the SEC was actually policing our financial system as per their job description, that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol, or that rich men spend millions to give up lucrative paychecks for a Congressman’s wage because they give a *bleep* about my childrens’ future.

Regarding this topic, Green Jeans and I are simply pro-common sense. I’m sorry you find that idea so offensive to your core values.

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“Anybody have any proof that today should be colder than it is?”

Nope, but the records Jay quoted show that it COULD BE colder than it is.

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“You know, the eye for an eye part?”

Do YOU know that the “eye for an eye” passage is a plea for mercy, not a road map for revenge?

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Matilda

BRAVA!

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Matilda,

From your earlier post:
“Thank you! I also wonder what the heck is so objectionable about clean air, water, and land? Why does the idea of discovering and implementing CLEAN forms of energy bring such harsh criticism? How many loved ones must a person watch suffer and die from cancer before thinking, “Gee, toxins are bad for us, aren’t they?”

You stated earlier to me on the healthcare thread that you like to watch all news channels in order to keep an open mind and balanced perspective. If you actually do what you said, you would know that the debate is not about implementing cleaner forms of energy. It is about the left using questionable “science” in order to enforce a policy on all of us that would amount to additional taxes. This is about Cap and Tax, Matilda. Cap and Tax is a job killing piece of legislation that we especially don’t need during a recession. Do you know anyone against a cleaner earth? Wouldn’t we get cleaner energy much quicker if we invested the amount of time and money into actually producing technology for alternative energy or making the current technology better? This makes more sense than manipulating data to enforce a new tax scheme, which will do nothing but redistribute wealth.

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No…you are illogical and blinded. Good luck with all of that.

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However Mati…keep following the kenyan right over the cliff.

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Speaking of the kenyan…when do the new and improved unemployment numbers come out? tee hee!

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“The study team analyzed several million daily high and low temperature readings taken over the span of six decades at about 1,800 weather stations across the country, thereby ensuring ample data for statistically significant results….

Wow.

Now that is a hell of a baseline for statistical averages, sixty years out of, oh, six billion or so?

So when does Miss Mary dismiss K-2 from class, Jay?

My point, for the morons here, is that even six, sixty, or six hundred years is meaningless to run a climatological ’statistic’ that proves anything.

The warmers say they can read the rings of fossilized trees to determine temps and water from thousands, nay, millions of years ago. More like tea leaves.

Just remember that these are the same warmers that predicted a flurry of catastrophic hurricanes this season past, and how many were there…..uh…..still counting…..oh, none.

Anything to get on TV, on “the View”, on Oprah, whatever, just keep those dollars rolling in to Green Al Gore, and he will take our hand to the promised land of trees, flowers, nuts and berries. Just don’t get caught in that nasty hot blast from his private jet, the one that left about the same total carbon footprint for 3 months from any nation in Africa, with his 2 transatlantic crossings.

How do you people even have the brain power to wake up in the morning?

Of course, a few here do not – ”

They’d rather roll around in their own feces before agreeing with science.

So January marks your annual apartment cleaning, eh?

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Jake, you are unfortunately making assumptions that are as clueless as your solution to the problem of terrorism…

However, be that as it may, I keep a loaded handcannon (with permit) in the truck and at home just in case some a-hole causes me to defend myself. That answer your question?

That ‘piece of scum’ at Gitmo that beheaded Daniel Pearl is very much like you, IMHO…he believes the world would be a better place without Christians.

Peas in a pod…you two…

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Mrs. Godzilla, this scheme is ripe for fraud…not much different than the business Enron was in.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=ayqJJd6EU1Rk

By Heather Smith

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) — “France opened a criminal investigation of four men allegedly involved in a 156 million- euro ($230 million) carbon trading fraud, the Paris prosecutors’ office said today.”

Also, the French supreme court just recently rejected France’s proposed carbon tax. Even the liberal French have shown some common sense.

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Robert

Cap and Trade worked.

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Robert

Ripe with fraud? It happens.

Contractors…….

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From a Theory to a Consensus on Emissions

By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: May 16, 2009
WASHINGTON — As Congress weighs imposing a mandatory limit on climate-altering gases — an outcome still far from certain — it is likely to turn to a system that sets a government ceiling on total emissions and allows polluting industries to buy and sell permits to meet it.

That approach, known as cap and trade, has been embraced by President Obama, Democratic leaders in Congress, mainstream environmental groups and a growing number of business interests, including energy-consuming industries like autos, steel and aluminum.

But not long ago, many of today’s supporters dismissed the idea of tradable emissions permits as an industry-inspired Republican scheme to avoid the real costs of cutting air pollution. The right answer, they said, was strict government regulation, state-of-the-art technology and a federal tax on every ton of harmful emissions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/us/politics/17cap.html

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Robert fraud is only an issue if it evolves from a republican idea! Ideas of democrat breeding are to be given rope in the case of fraud.

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Jake

you could be right about who does the right thing and who doesn’t.

but it still means we do the right thing.

(mommy, mommy, little bruce gets wingdings and soda pop in his lunch….why do i have to eat a tuna sammich and an orange)

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Robert

Cap and Trade does work and thanks to Bush 41 for doing the right thing.

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Doggone, i have no doubt that I am very entertaining for you. I have and will forever be a very entertaining spirit to those of a 3rd to 6th grade social development. So there is no shock there.

It was shocking you were smart enough to distract from my earlier questions that seem to throw a wrench into the gears of your loved man-Made Global Warming scarecrow.

Even Jay ran from answering those questions, and he usually explains the faults of his arguments to those who question him.

So A++ for the distraction, and A++ for knowing Gore didn’t say he created the internet, he only said he took the initiative to create the internet whatever that means.

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Cap and Trade does not work.

From the same link posted earlier:

“Further, a study by the Taxpayers Alliance estimates the cost of various green taxes in the UK is up to $1200 per household per year, and that to achieve only a fraction of what Waxman-Markey requires.[7] Again, this points to very high household costs for Waxman-Markey.”

Are we prepared for a tax increase like this? What about the price of energy skyrocketing? Can the average American afford this?

“But cap and trade adds a significant element of instability, which we have seen in Europe with wild swings in the price of carbon allowances, and energy companies less interested in long-term investment and more interested in short-term gaming of the system.”

“And even assuming it works to reduce emissions, Waxman-Markey has been estimated by climate scientist Chip Knappenberger to reduce the earth’s future temperature by no more than 0.2 degree C by 2100.[2]

“But will it even work? Will it even reduce emissions enough to accomplish that 0.2 degree? The European experience with cap and trade strongly urges caution. The Washington Post recently described it as “Exhibit A” of what not to do on climate, and for good reason.[3] The Senate would be wise to take a close look at Europe’s track record with the 1997 Kyoto Protocol and the Emissions Trading Scheme adopted in 2005.”

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Jake, you are hopeless, but your self-righteous screed of ‘I never cheated on any of my wives’ just made my day…thanks…

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Mrs. Godzilla, actually the failed cap and trade can be found all over Europe. Is there any leftist tax scheme you are NOT willing to sign up for?

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Robert

It worked. Bush 41. Deal with it.

You ask, “Is there any leftist tax scheme you are NOT willing to sign up for?”

Actually I’m not crazy about a tax a cadillac health plans.

Feel better?

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Well, I never cheated on none of my wifes neither, but I’ve only had one and I reckon I ain’t dead yet.

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Mrs. Godzilla, tell that to the family struggling to pay their energy bill as it is now. I am sure you can afford for your monthly electricity bills to skyrocket, but I don’t think most of America can’t. This makes no sense, and it still won’t do much of anything to actually provide cleaner air and water. Do you even know the specifics of the bill? Spending the same amount of money on better technology would get us there much quicker.

This bill is just another way to add billions to the treasury. I guess our politicians will need this money since their other economic policy blunders will need to be paid for eventually.

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Ah, it’s TAXES that are objectionable here. Okay. Got it. I suppose you’d like to bring ALL the soldiers home now. Who wants to phone China, the Saudis and everyone else to whom we owe money and tell them they’re not going to get their stinkin’ money EVER, and not to expect next month’s payment? (Nah, nobody will get riled over that.) Then close all the schools, hosptials, roads, bridges, water treatment plants, the CDC, SEC, FDA, and every other entity that requires public funds for the public good. That won’t negatively affect employment or the economy. Live on your own little plot of land (presuming it’s paid off), dig your own wells and latrines, heal your own ailments, and grow and kill all your own food. There now! UTOPIA!

**Yawwwwwn!** Nice bedtime story. What-EV.

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Robert

Cheaper to pay the electric bill than to have chronic illness.

An interesting read:

The Real Climate Choice Before Congress: Cap and Trade or Command and Control?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-cohen/the-real-climate-choice-b_b_411662.html

I’d guess you’d pick door # 1. I may be wrong…..

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Mrs. G – I guess it does, I just put it as another item on the list of what I consider virtues. Ever wonder why this great christian nation doesn’t make breaking that particular commandment against the law? And to answer your question, no I’m single. Too old and too morally bankrupt, apparently, to foist myself off on another poor soul.

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Robert

initiative….whatever that means…..

I understand you.

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Robert, oh, I think I’ve got a pretty good handle on your idea of reality. You’re just snarky because I don’t share your fondness for the taste. Tell me again how the DE-regulation of the natural gas industry here in Georgia a few years ago fostered competition that lowered my gas bills, whydoncha. That was a brilliant free-market scam that raped us all that January and left thousands with no heat for their homes in weather just like this. Do you work for Georgia Power Company?

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…quoting the Huffington Post will get you no credibility with me. I won’t even bother reading it as I already know it is going to be biased.

Yet you posted a link at 3:58 to The Heritage Foundation.

Glass house, meet stone.

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And the point is what? I think beofre we enact economically debillating cap and trade legislation, we should test the data used by the East Anglia lab and let other scientists, not politicians or commentators, test the information before we conclude that global temeprature changes are caused by man.

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Kevin, no offense, but who’s “We,” and what “other scientists?” The officials in our government are making proposals based on data the vast majority of scientists agree on, at least in part. Like, are YOU and your buddies gonna do the tests? Or do you suggest we rely ONLY on the conclusions of disagreeing scientists funded by the energy conglomerates profiting from our current prevailing methods of generating energy? Does your particular science degree and experience trump those of the MAJORITY of scientists in the world? Just curious.

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According to CBS News’ Declan McCullagh, the Climate Research Unit (CRU) @ the U of E. Anglia (in the UK), in global warming circles, “wields outside influence: It claims the world’s largest temperature data set, & its work & mathematical models were incorporated into the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel in Climate Change’s 2007 report. The report… is what the Environmental Protection Agency acknowledge it “relies on most heavily’ when concluding carbon dioxide emission endanger public health & should be regulated.”
We know that over 1000 of their emails & 72 documents for the last 13 yrs.were hacked which proved they colluded in manipulating data, refused access to their data thru the Freedom of Info Act, colluded in preventing papers by dissenting scientists being published in scientific journals & corroborated to delete emails & files & change data.
There’s a very disturbing file of comments, 274 pages long, by a climatologist/programmer at CRU named Ian “Harry” Harris attempting to recreate the applications & algorithms that ran the original data from ‘06-’09, a huge statistical database (11,000 files) that are the foundation of the study of climate change, recordings from hundreds of weather stations around the world of temperatures & precipitation measurements from 1901-2006. Google Harry Read Me or go to:

http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/30/climategates-harry-read-me-file-is-a-must-read/

Spend at least a minute on this site.

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Doggone –

“After all…gravity is just a theory, right? You need to learn the difference between a theory and a SCIENTIFIC theory. They are not the same thing.”

Gravity is not a theory. It is a law. Shouldn’t need a dumb conservative to tell you that. I thought global warming advocates were supposed to know a lot about science. Or at least a little.

Comparing skepticism of climate change theories and the law of gravity is silly and says more about your own ignorance than anything else.

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What a load of Mule Muffins! LOL Jay.

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Maybe the earth is shifting its axis (the way it is oriented to the sun) This shift has occured before. If so this could account for the climate changes. But do we have instruments that could measure this shift if it is actually occuring??

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Cynthia and Bookman have been really hitting the blogs hard lately. Scary Stuff.

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Jeff, quit drinking the cool aid!! Weather is a cyclic event that will increase to a local maximum and then decrease to a local minimum with some shifts or translations. Look at your bar chart, we reached a local minimum in the 70s. If you do enough research (not Al Gores propaganda) you can find the cycle time for this cycle and even publish an almanac!! Theres the money my friends!

Al gore and the rest of the green movement only want green as in money. They hit us with the dooms day threat and then tell us how to remedy the problem by following their cure and like lambs to the slaughter we line up with cash in hand and the press in tow because it a “hot story”. Now that we all know it is media BS and relax and wait the the apocalypse come when the unseen planet killer asteroid takes us all.

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Dave, you are so full of SH–. You really don’t think we believe or ever believed the crap about manmade global warming. You probably hollered Y2K, end of the world, too.
H1N1 Pandemic!!! Good God. The government (which includes pawns like you) spreads fear so it can sell its solutions. But then again, all this might make you a millionaire like Al the whore Gore.

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So, of the temperature records we’ve seen in the last 60 years, about 55% have been record highs and about 45% have been record lows. Granted there has been an upswing in the last ten years, but the overall temperature data here does not mesh too well with the carbon emissions data from the same time period. (See here.)

According to the emissions graph, the U.S. has seen a steady increase in carbon output throughout the same time period noted from the NCAR chart, yet the temperature data was up and down as far as the extremes go. According to the carbon graph, the steepest increase was in the 1960’s, yet this period had the largest ratio of low to high temperature records.

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Contrary to what some would have others believe, global warming is still here and it is still real and the data bear that out and that data and its analysis is out there for all to see. If you cannot find it, let me know and I’ll point you to it.

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Ignore the repeat of that second paragraph.

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Coldest Orange Bowl Game Ever. Read about it on the AJC:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/georgia-tech/coldest-orange-bowl-ever-267893.html

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Taxpayer: Of course the x-axis is labeled clearly. If you notice on the far right of the graph (you can enlarge it) zero on the on the y-axis is the period normal temp. of 57º F.

Nice try though.

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I founded the Weather Channel. Look that up.

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itpdude, nano-tech carbon dioxide eaters scare the crap out of me, they will run amuck and start eating us from the inside out and all life on the planet will die. Last I checked living things on our planet needs carbon dioxid.

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Man-made global warming is real and it represents a huge threat to humanity. Scientific data has shown that for years and pretty much all scientist agree on that unless they work for so called “think tanks” funded by the oil and gas industry which only cares about short term profits. Climate change is real, folks, even if it gets cold every once in awhile, and the sooner we do something about it the less severe the consequences. My guess is though that a lot of people will stick their head in the sand until Miami is under water…if someone wants to believe the earth is flat that’s just what they are gonna believe, after all it looks flat from down here.

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Global warming is happening. Scientific data and research has been collected from more than just a few hundred years ago. Man is speeding up this process everyday by doing nothing to help. It is sad that we as humans never want to face the truth till it is staring us in the face and by then it is too late.

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what an idiot. is he that stupid or does he think we are?

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