American people torn about policy in Afghanistan
I guess you’d have to say that the American people are torn about this issue:
Fifty-nine percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Wednesday morning said they favor the president’s plan to send 30,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan, with 39 percent opposed.
And yet:
The survey indicates that a majority of the public opposes the war, with 55 percent of respondents opposed and 43 percent in support of the U.S. mission in Afghanistan.
Clearly, that makes no sense. Except that in a strange way, it does. The American people want to support their troops overseas and understand that withdrawal could have immense consequences. But with so little to show in Afghanistan after eight years, they don’t like it much and don’t have much confidence in the eventual outcome.
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352 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
10:24 pm
Now you’re teed up, josef
Common Sense
December 23rd, 2009
10:25 pm
To Southern Comfort, Doggone/Ga and josef nix:
That was the kind of debate we should have on these threads. Tart but respectul and without name calling. I wish others would take note. We will have to agree to disagree but I enjoyed it and thank you for your input.
Been a long day …………… taps !
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
10:25 pm
Oops! Well you can stand down for another 98 comments.
Southern Comfort
December 23rd, 2009
10:26 pm
Dave
My folks didn’t come here as freedmen or indentured servants. Not much left to choose from for me. I’m not blond and blue eyed, nor can I pass as such.
As far as what the Constitution says, “…free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.” Not much wiggle room there for me. And I do know what the Contitution says as I have a personal copy that sits at my desk for my reading pleasure. I swore to uphold and defend it, and I refuse to defend something I know absolutely nothing about.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 23rd, 2009
10:30 pm
Perhaps talking about it voluntarily would in and of itself invite a lawsuit on confidentiality grounds.
Well, when it’s the surviving next of kin asking the questions I wouldn’t think so. They didn’t sue though because as they said, “it wouldn’t bring her back”.
Southern Comfort
December 23rd, 2009
10:30 pm
godless
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the non-profit/for-profit idea. I understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think it is morally right for someone to consider profit when dealing with another person’s health. At that point, people are being treated as a product and not a being.
Common Sense
Same feeling here. I’m too old for that name calling stuff. I leave that for the kids.
Southern Comfort
December 23rd, 2009
10:32 pm
HD
I have mixed feelings when it comes to those lawsuits. If it’s a case where you removed my lungs when I was supposed to have an ACL repaired, you need to compensate me. If it was an honest mistake and no major harm done, then reprimand the person/people involved and ensure that it happens to no one else and I’m ok.
Southern Comfort
December 23rd, 2009
10:33 pm
And now I’m really out for the evening…
Later
godless heathen
December 23rd, 2009
10:41 pm
Doggone,
>>“Who raises food besides farmers?”
Any nearest gardener. Used to do it myself, as a matter of fact, but where I live now is on the shady side of a hill and not much grows well here…except trees, so it’s not worth the effort.
Then why do we have Food Stamps and WIC and all that? Just tell them to grow their own damn food.
I grow a lot of food. But I buy a lot, too. I cut my finger pretty bad a while back. I used cyanoacrylate to “stitch it”. $300 minimum if I had gone to the doctor. Now if I needed heart surgery, I would pay the guy that lives in the big house on the golf course for that.
But I don’t have the money in the bank to pay that surgeon. So over the years I have paid an insurance premium, and so the insurance company is now on the hook. The insurance company charged me a premium based on the risk. “They” made a profit. Investors made a profit. People who were employed by the insurance company made a profit.
But some people can’t afford insurance, you say. Ok. Some people can’t afford food. We give them food. Give them medical care. Have government paid doctors for poor people. We could do that a lot cheaper than we can “reform health care”.
josef nix
December 23rd, 2009
10:41 pm
common sense…
It’s one of the reasons I enjoy an exchange with you.
In relation to us being the arbiter via the amendment process, well, I will grant you that, but then the Supremes come back in and, perhaps a vicious circle, but a functional one,,,keeps everybody on their toes, necessary in a democratic state..
g-dless–
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to the profit concept and am a practitioner of the capitalist system…but there is a time and place for it and, in my opinion, healt care is not one of them as the only option…I’m a teacher. I’m not opposed to the private school for profit, but not to the exclusion of the public school. I’m not opposed to private security, but not to the exclusion of the public police force…and so on….
josef nix
December 23rd, 2009
10:47 pm
RW–
Looks like I missed it again!
g-dless @ 10:41
“We could do that a lot cheaper than we can ‘reform health care.’”
Now we’re speaking the same language. Earlier I was talking about Grady and Piedmont. As I tell people bad mouthing Grady, “thank G-d we’ve got it. And thank G-d I don’t have to go there and can go to Piedmont instead.”
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
10:53 pm
Well I’ll hufff and I’ll puff and try to bang out these next 80 oddd comments, josef.
Well, when it’s the surviving next of kin asking the questions I wouldn’t think so.
You’re probably right depending on how close the surviving kin was to the deceased. I’m convinced that by now we can’t do anything at all without violating some law that’s been drawn up, but what saves us is most of the time there’s probably another one that gets us off the hook. The lawyers have to love it when the legislators hardly ever just outright repeal anything.
godless heathen
December 23rd, 2009
10:54 pm
josef,
I’m really trying to show everyone the edge of the proverbial “slippery slope”. Once _all Americans have health care_, then it’s on to “all Americans have a right to affordable food and those agri-businesses are making obscene profits.” Food is essential to life. It’s just not right that someone is making a profit off of it. Water is essential to life. It just isn’t right that those well drillers are making a profit off of something as essential as water. And so on.
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
10:57 pm
Nice going Barry…..
Last Thursday, December 17, 2009, The White House released an Executive Order “Amending Executive Order 12425.” It grants INTERPOL (International Criminal Police Organization) a new level of full diplomatic immunity afforded to foreign embassies and select other “International Organizations” as set forth in the United States International Organizations Immunities Act of 1945.
By removing language from President Reagan’s 1983 Executive Order 12425, this international law enforcement body now operates – now operates – on American soil beyond the reach of our own top law enforcement arm, the FBI, and is immune from Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
….geez
http://threatswatch.org/analysis/2009/12/wither-sovereignty/
Dave R.
December 23rd, 2009
11:01 pm
And who develops the next generation of drugs if the companies that develop them are not allowed to profit by them? Every drug that gets to market is preceded by 9-10 failures that don’t clear the FDA. Do those companies have the right to charge extra for the drugs that do get to market (a profit, if you will), even if it is related to health care?
As godless heathen says, a very slippery slope, josef.
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
11:06 pm
Dave R,
I suspect the Democrat answer to that is going to be that the government needs to take over R&D for pharmaceuticals. This slippery slope started WAY back up the hill from where we are now.
Dave R.
December 23rd, 2009
11:08 pm
And now the CBO is apparently reporting that the Democrats have double-counted the savings in Medicare from their debacle of a health care reform bill. Apparently, it will now ADD to the deficit, not reduce it – something opponents have been saying all along. I guess we know why this was rushed through so quickly, don’t we?
josef nix
December 23rd, 2009
11:11 pm
g-dless heathen
You make a valid point for a modern, technological, capitalist system. The key phrase is “…those obscene profits…” When a sector fails to police its own in that, especially when dealing with the essentials, then it falls on the state to do so…the medical profession failed to police its own and now it has fallen on the state…and, believe me, anywhere the state sets its foot, a mess is sure to follow. But, again my opinion, the medical profession brought it on themselves…and to be frank, agribusiness is getting there…
RW–save your breath…I don’t think I can hold out that long, I’ve tried poking the bear, but he’s in hibernation…!
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
11:18 pm
josef,
I finally have some time on my hands and intend to use it frivolously. I might just take myself to the next page!
….Dick Cheney…..
josef nix
December 23rd, 2009
11:23 pm
Dave R…
I have to agree with you to a degree on the pharmaceuticals. It’s that handful of pills I take every day that makes it possible for me to be up in here fat and sassy tonight and before I get too high and mighty, a check of my portfolio would reveal I profit therefrom as well…but, it’s still a question of just how much of that profit goes back into R & D, how much comes to me and how much goes to bloated salaries to executives and payoffs via lobbyists to politicians..it is indeed a slippery slope….
josef nix
December 23rd, 2009
11:29 pm
RW–
Gotta leave it to you…
G’night all…
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
11:32 pm
Jake Tapper fact-checks Obama assertion on public option campaigning
The nuttiest part of this story is that WaPo ran the story with no questions asked and all they had to do was check a WaPo questionnaire to find out Obama was once again playing fast and loose with the truth.
RW-(the original)
December 23rd, 2009
11:44 pm
Do you suppose Katie Couric says we’re just a nation of angry people because we won’t watch her? My wife said she agrees with Katie, but she also said we’re angry because we have people like Katie Couric in our faces.
godless heathen
December 23rd, 2009
11:52 pm
So if “Health Care Reform” somewhere near its current House or Senate form passes in March, will it be the Obama Health Care plan?
“Specifically, the Obama plan will: (1) establish a new public insurance program available to Americans who neither qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP nor have access to insurance through their employers, as well as to small businesses that want to offer insurance to their employees.”
godless heathen
December 23rd, 2009
11:53 pm
What happened to the poster (poser?) that went by Public Option a Done Deal?
Dave R.
December 23rd, 2009
11:59 pm
Godless, that was Chad Harris and he has apparently been banned by Jay – again. May he never darken this blog again.
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:00 am
godless heathen,
I’m pretty sure Jay B banned him so it’s not like he’s just hiding out because of the screen name.
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:01 am
It will be interesting to see if San Fran Nan can keep her uber-left wingers in line during reconciliation. If they insist on the public option, it won’t get past the Senate that way.
Unless a few more Senators can be bribed.
Again.
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:04 am
Come on Dave R, nobody should be banned for speaking their mind and it was easy to scroll by Chadly when he went into berserk rants. All in all I liked the guy even if I agreed with him in a percentage so tiny it can’t be expressed in numbers.
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:08 am
I agree with the sentiment about speaking one’s mind, RW, but all Chadly could do was personal attacks.
I also had to buy a new mouse due to Chadly and NJ’s posts. My scroll wheel had a meltdown!
@@
December 24th, 2009
12:11 am
It’ll be interesting to see if violence in Pakistan decreases. Seems a top Taliban commander has claimed he sent thousands of insurgents to fight against the surge in Afghanistan. Kinda like when Afghanistan’s AQ sent their insurgents into Iraq….which was the plan.
Afghanistan won’t be anything like Iraq. Having said all that…
no comment.
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:16 am
Dave R,
I’ll give you that it seemed that way, but Chadly had a lot more to offer and if it was a computer bug you were trying to fix he was obsessed enough to get the answer. This certainly isn’t the place to find that quality in someone but when I find someone that can get me an accurate answer I’ll take them wherever I can find them.
You don’t suppose Bosch reconditions scroll wheels do you?
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:18 am
I’m not sure exactly what Bosch does . . .
@@
December 24th, 2009
12:20 am
I didn’t have a problem with Chad. He was pretty direct. Nothing sneaky about him.
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:20 am
@@,
Wouldn’t it be creepy if Jay B is also Wyld Byll?
@@
December 24th, 2009
12:22 am
jay, Wyld Byll? Nooooooo way!
What in the world would make you think such a thing?
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:23 am
And with apologies to Jay, FDR did not pack the Supreme Court with his picks until after 1940, when many retired or died.
However, one justice always against FDR regarding decisions on New Deal policies suddenly reversed his decisions just prior to FDR’s attempt to add justices to the court. Justice Owen Roberts suddenly became one of the New Deal’s staunchest supporters.
Things that make you go hmmmmmm . . .
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:26 am
I wouldn’t put it past Bookman to post occasionally as someone else to “spice up” a conversation. Not that this group needs any help on most topics.
Maybe he brings up his hit rate and comment rate to his bosses when going into pay negotiations . . .
TnGelding
December 24th, 2009
12:30 am
We just don’t understand the problems there. It was a mistake of monumental proportions to go in, but now that we’re(they’re?) there, the American public wants to make the best of it. The hearts and minds of the Afghans have to be changed, and that’s hard to do when you’re more concerned about protecting yourselves than them. We’re going to have to have a lot of help from some unlikely places (Russia, China?) to have any semblance of success. And we’re going to have to get the entire country involved, not just the military families.
Dave R.
December 24th, 2009
12:35 am
‘Night all. The pillow beckons :Z
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:37 am
What in the world would make you think such a thing?
@@,
To be fair I didn’t say I thought that, only that it would be creepy. On the other side of the ledger Jay B seems to be able to summon a response from Wyld on demand.
RW-(the original)
December 24th, 2009
12:48 am
As much as I’d like to wait and go to bed with @@ it looks like I’m turning in with Dave R. DADT
Goodnight y’all
USinUK
December 24th, 2009
5:13 am
Marley was dead: to begin with.
one of the best first lines ever.
merry christmas, everyone!! blessings to my fellow Bookmaniacs and best wishes for a very happy new year!!!
TnGelding
December 24th, 2009
6:02 am
USinUK
December 24th, 2009
5:13 am
The sentiment is returned, twofold!
Let’s all strive to be magnanimous, productive citizens instead of petty, destructive partisans during this special season and throughout the new year.
USinUK
December 24th, 2009
6:08 am
TnG – 6:02 – hear hear!!!
Chocolate, mince pies, mulled wine (or a good scotch or something festive and sparkly) for everyone!!!
and remember … “If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately” – I think we’ve all had enough discussions on this blog to realize that the things that unite us far outweigh (and are far more imporant) than the things that divide us. we love our families, we love our country, we love our music and our cheesy shrimp grits. let us, in 2010, remember to occasionally focus on those things.
TnGelding
December 24th, 2009
6:17 am
USinUK
December 24th, 2009
6:08 am
Well put, as ususal! Thanks for representing us so well in a foreign land.
TnGelding
December 24th, 2009
6:30 am
godless heathen
December 23rd, 2009
10:41 pm
We have food stamps and WIC to support agribusiness. But I like your thinking and resourcefulness.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
December 24th, 2009
6:54 am
WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama’s commitment to close the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by next month may be delayed until 2011 because it will take months for the government to buy an Illinois prison and upgrade it to hold suspected terrorists.
Flip flop.
TnGelding
December 24th, 2009
6:55 am
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
December 24th, 2009
6:54 am
Drip drop! Merry Christmas!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
December 24th, 2009
7:01 am
The Republicans, according to Perdue’s letter, want Baker to join seven other attorneys general “to explore the availability of any legal challenges that Georgia could pursue to oppose this unconscionable scenario.”
“Congress appears to be on the cusp of making a decision that will have ripple effects for decades to come,” Perdue wrote. “Now is the time to ensure that any decision that is made has been thoroughly vetted and deemed to meet the intent and spirit of our country’s Constitution.” -Urinal
Time to relearn the phrase “State’s Rights.”
LA
December 24th, 2009
7:55 am
Jay, Merry Christmas!
OH, and expect the Democrat Party to be destroyed by angry Americans!
Common Sense
December 24th, 2009
9:51 am
Maybe it’s truly time for a 2nd Constitutional Convention (fully provided for in the Constitution) but both sides are pretty fearful of it.
I predict it will happen at some point …………….