Reid says deal struck, ready to move to a vote

Looks like the Senate has a deal. And this repeated forced-reading of the bill aloud is making the GOP look pretty childish and petty.

From the New York Times:

WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats said they neared agreement Saturday on a major overhaul of the nation’s health care system, putting them within reach of approving legislation by Christmas.

As the Senate convened in a driving snowstorm, Democratic lawmakers and senior officials said a breakthrough came when Senator Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, agreed after hours of negotiation Friday to back the legislation, making him the pivotal 60th vote.

In a sign of confidence that he had the necessary support, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, introduced his 383-page proposal in hopes of overcoming a series of procedural hurdles over the next several days. Republicans immediately forced a reading of the measure, which was expected to take at least 10 hours.

209 comments Add your comment

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
10:06 am

I think I could come up with some real nice videos for some campaigns.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:08 am

but it was dead in August…

What happened to all those tea partiers screaming? it didn’t work?

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:09 am

Anyone have a link to a description of how this bill will affect small and big businesses?

jewcowboy

December 19th, 2009
10:10 am

Why do Senators from states with the lease amount of people get to decide what happens to 300 million people? Nebraska, Connecticut and Maine have a combined population of metro Atlanta, yet their Senators have hijacked health care legislation. What is wrong with this?

jewcowboy

December 19th, 2009
10:14 am

That should, of course, been least…not lease. Damn fingers.

FrankLeeDarling

December 19th, 2009
10:19 am

Any rule against a whole bunch of people reading difference parts of the bill all at once?

FrankLeeDarling

December 19th, 2009
10:20 am

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!

December 19th, 2009
10:22 am

Yeah, they “struck” themselves on the head-

Obama and Democrats’ Health Care Plan
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 12/1 – 12/14 – 37.9 51.6 Against/Oppose +13.7

This is an “achievement” in the sense that so is suicide.

scout

December 19th, 2009
10:24 am

To jewcowboy:

It’s called the “Constitution”. Read it sometime.

@@

December 19th, 2009
10:27 am

Finn:

…and the dems are dead in 2010 and 2012.

I left a post for you and Paul downstairs.

jewcowboy

December 19th, 2009
10:30 am

scout,

No, it’s actually called the Standing Rules of the United States Senate that allows the threat of indefinite filibuster without actually having to speak.

Why don’t you read it sometime.

LA

December 19th, 2009
10:32 am

Enter your comments here

LA

December 19th, 2009
10:32 am

Bye bye Obama.

Harder to buy US Treasuries

IT is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US’s shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas, a Chinese central bank official said yesterday.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/print.asp?id=423054

LA

December 19th, 2009
10:34 am

Jay writes: And this repeated forced-reading of the bill aloud is making the GOP look pretty childish and petty.

Famous last words, Jay. Goodbye Democrats!

Paul

December 19th, 2009
10:34 am

“And this repeated forced-reading of the bill aloud is making the GOP look pretty childish and petty.”

Question: haven’t Pelosi and Reid said they’d move for an immediate vote? So when it the full debate going to take place? Is just reading this the only way we’re going to hear what’s in it?

Anyone know if Reid substantiated Franken’s claim that Reid told him to cut off remarks after 10 minutes (the Lieberman incident) or is Franken lying (his Minnesota NPR interview).

Taxpayer – saw your response downstairs on a draft. Responded. With millions and millions added each year to the military (many times more than we have in the entire active force) – it’s flat unworkable. A laudable goal, perhaps, but unworkable.

scout

December 19th, 2009
10:35 am

jewcowboy:

You’re changing your original premise. That’s a no no! You were talking about proprotionality ……….. two senators for the smaller states as well as the larger ones.
You may not like that but that’s the only reason the smaller states signed on to the Constitution.

Now if you want to argue the “internal rules” of the Senate, I may agree with you on some things.

LA

December 19th, 2009
10:35 am

The Health Care Bill Is Political Suicide

Health reform is shuffling toward its endgame, and even though the bill’s popularity resembles George Bush’s circa 2007, Democrats seem determined to push the bill through. Browse through certain liberal blogs, or listen to Democratic leadership speeches, and you’ll read the same justification again and again: However bad passing this bill might be, politically speaking, not passing it would be much, much worse.

I’ve been skeptical of this line of argument for quite some time. This summer, I showed that Democrats from Republican-leaning districts who supported President Clinton’s agenda fared significantly worse in the 1994 midterm election than those who did not. It seems almost certain that an additional vote for Clinton’s then-wildly-unpopular healthcare bill would not have helped these Democrats any; passing ClintonCare almost certainly would have made 1994 even worse for the Democrats. Likewise, after taking tough votes on the stimlulus package and cap-and-trade, it seemed unlikely that a vote on the then-mildly-unpopular health care bill would help Congressional Democrats.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/12/19/the_health_care_bill_is_political_suicide_99590.html

El Jefe

December 19th, 2009
10:37 am

I agree with the reading of the measure before the Senate. Anything to through a monkey wrench at this terrible, wasteful bill.

All that was needed was to pass a measure to insure those citizens that have no coverage – a lot cheaper and it makes a lot more sense.

LA

December 19th, 2009
10:37 am

Some FANTASTIC news in Florida.

Suddenly in a slump, Crist seems a bit lost

Gov. Charlie Crist walked alone into Friday’s meeting with The Miami Herald editorial board.

His security detail stayed outside the glass door. There were no staff members juggling Blackberries and briefing books at his side. Just Crist, sitting at a conference table in shirt sleeves and a tie, at perhaps the lowest point of his political career.

The interview came after another tough week.

Polls showed the former presumptive Republican nominee tied or just a notch ahead of former House Speaker Marco Rubio of Miami in the U.S. Senate race. Calls for his state party chief, Jim Greer, to resign reached a new peak. And the capper on Friday: Florida’s unemployment rate hit 11.5 percent.

http://www.miamiherald.com/418/story/1389984.html

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
10:39 am

A laudable goal, perhaps, but unworkable.

I addressed that less than imaginative remark downstairs. Then again, you could be predictable and just say no.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:42 am

Paul, you wouldn’t see a decline in available fighting people, you would see a change in the make-up of the support services for the military.

Some of those 18 year olds would make the military their occupation. And don’t forget there are other jobs besides infantry. According to mcCaskill’s pentagon report more than 60% of those employed by the pentagon are private contractors who charge a lot more for their services than federal troops.

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
10:43 am

Ah well. Time to get out for a little shopping. Check y’all later.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:44 am

yeah, el jefe, it’s all so simple, isn’t it?

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:47 am

In Afghanistan, the Obama administration blows the Bush administration out of the privatized water. According to a memo [PDF] released by McCaskill’s staff, “From June 2009 to September 2009, there was a 40% increase in Defense Department contractors in Afghanistan. During the same period, the number of armed private security contractors working for the Defense Department in Afghanistan doubled, increasing from approximately 5,000 to more than 10,000.”

http://rebelreports.com/post/287929742/stunning-statistics-about-the-war-every-american-should

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
10:48 am

And, Paul, we’ve had a draft before and managed to make it workable. So, I’m sure that if the Senators read through variations on a theme enough times, even they will eventually figure out a workable solution for the 21st century. You just need a little faith. By the way, support your military and ask your representatives to support a war tax. Do it for the children. Don’t saddle them with yet more of our generation’s debt.

FrankLeeDarling

December 19th, 2009
10:50 am

Republicans, you have nothing ,all you can do is stomp your feet and hold your breath.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:52 am

The US has spent more than $23 billion on contracts in Afghanistan since 2002. By next year, the number of contractors will have doubled since 2008 when taxpayers funded over $8 billion in Afghanistan-related contracts.

$23 billion! For nothing. But the conservatives don’t want to spend money to fix health care. I guess Americans aren’t worth the cost? Why spend the money on everyday Americans when you can give it all to military contractors? That makes more sense?

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
10:53 am

oops, that quote is from my previous link.

Sunshine and Thunder

December 19th, 2009
10:58 am

This is the worst legislation in 50 years. It is also a classic case of the democrats doing what they do best: get it passed before anyone notices. Under no circumstances should it see daylight. If Americans knew what was in the bill they’d revolt.

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
10:58 am

The only group of people looking “silly” are the Democrats who are hell bent on ramming down government health care down American throats who overwhelmingly do NOT want it to happen. The Will Of The People means nothing to arrogance – I thought the Republicans were bad. I can’t wait to see all the screaming from 20-somethings who are offered health care through their employers but choose not to pay that $100/month and instead spend it on party money thinking they’ll never get sick; I can’t wait to see them scream about being FORCED to buy into a government program or pay a fine – or possibly go to JAIL. All of that so a whopping 16% of Americans can have their “fair share” of health care access – at least that’s the validation. Yeah that’s right, 84% of Americans HAVE a health care plan. But, majorities have never meant much to liberal Democrats.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, left, right, center, or clueless who thinks this is great for America is a sad case. And anyone who continues to support the people in control right now – Reid/Pelosi/Obama – is a mental case.

But enough of that. How about that global warming, huh? We prayed for rain and buddy we got it.

“Atlanta’s official rain gauge at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport recorded 1.89 inches of rain on Friday, pushing the city’s total for the year to 66.86 inches and making 2009 Atlanta’s third-wettest year on record, surpassed only by the 71.18 inches recorded in 1948 and 1929’s 67.71 inches.”

Oh the irony……

“Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) — World leaders flying into Copenhagen today to discuss a solution to global warming will first face freezing weather as a blizzard dumped 10 centimeters (4 inches) of snow on the Danish capital overnight.”

One cannot emphasize enough the silliness of that entire farce. But even Obama sending billions of our beloved tax payer dollars to a farce cause isn’t enough for some:

“Sudan’s delegate, Lumumba Di-Aping, said the agreement would condemn Africa to widespread deaths from global warming and compared it to Nazis sending “6 million people into furnaces” in the Holocaust. The African Union, however, backed the deal and his statement was denounced by other delegations.”

And others see it as it really is:

“The deal is a triumph of spin over substance. It recognizes the need to keep warming below 2 degrees but does not commit to do so. It kicks back the big decisions on emissions cuts and fudges the issue of climate cash,” said Jeremy Hobbs, executive director of Oxfam International.

Oh, did I mention that entire debacle was a farce and nothing but a method of extortion based upon a cause?

“COPENHAGEN (Reuters) – The Copenhagen climate talks will generate more carbon emissions than any previous climate conference, equivalent to the annual output of over half a million Ethiopians, figures commissioned by hosts Denmark show.”

Now here’s something that can really heat up the globe – great job yet again, Hillary, Obama, and Democrats:

“VIENNA – Another year has passed in the world’s standoff with Iran and North Korea over nuclear weapons, and the situation has only gotten worse. Both countries have pressed ahead with their programs, while the U.N. has stuck to sanctions that seem to have little if any effect, and a slew of other countries are now seen as candidates for the nuclear club.”

But anyway, it’s going to be sweet watching Democrats lose seats and power over their greedy and selfish cause of government health care. You first, Harry:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/12/reidintrouble.html

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
11:00 am

“$23 billion! For nothing. But the conservatives don’t want to spend money to fix health care. ”

Finn: health care needs overhauling, not a complete TEAR DOWN and rebuild of GOVERNMENT CONTROL.

Is that so hard for you liberal pinheads to understand?

tscali

December 19th, 2009
11:00 am

i would go for a war bond type deal. get a membership card, marked patriotic support. show it at a cash register for a price discount. only problem is, those who did not invest in war bonds would figure out a way to manufacture fakes and then use them for discounts.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 19th, 2009
11:04 am

Oh me! They’re about to pass the bill that will lead to the end of us all! If this keeps up, pretty soon I’ll need to wait a hour to get a Dr. to look at my pile-on cyst while all Those People and the illegal Mexicans get in ahead of me. They’ll be keeping them all alive so they can vote for librul stuff.

I can’t hardly wait till November 2010 so we can vote them all out of office. Trouble is, it will take 60 votes in the Senate to turn this Obamacare law back and we won’t be able to get that many even if the Supreme Court rules the election in our favor again like they done when they elected My President.

Have a good day everybody. It’s bound to be better than the one I’ll have. This Senate done ruint my weekend.

Paul

December 19th, 2009
11:06 am

Taxpayer

Thanks for the response downstairs. And here. I noted the number of people in the age group you want to draft is in the tens of millions. And each year more millions and millions come of age. And we have a military of just over a million. So you would work that, how?

No wonder Republicans want to read the bills. Progressives don’t seem to have much regard for how facts impact an argument. Seems they like to make general statements but when facts get presented it’s change the subject time.

Hey, heard about that half trillion cut in Medicare? Democrats have announced how they’ll cut waste and abuse – by cutting reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and driving them out of the system so there are less resources for senior care.

Brilliant….

Back on topic

Support for the Democratic reform (not reform itself, just the Democratic muckup) has been falling. A majority oppose the plans discussed. Jay – if the senators and representatives are to represent their constituents, (assuming for a moment much of the opposition comes within their districts) what do you propose the Republicans do? Step aside and tell their constituents “sorry”? So much talk against the party of “NO” – what, exactly do you want Republicans to DO that would be faithful tor their duties to their constituents?

Anyone else: from earlier – anyone heard if Reid confirmed Franken’s remarks or is Franken lying?

out for a bit -

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
11:06 am

And another thing: how come we never heard liberals say how “silly” Sen. Robert Byrd always looked when he’d get up on the floor and babble for hours mindlessly to draw out time?

But you have to love the hard left liberals like Keith Olbermann and Howard Scream – I mean Dean. Both do not support the current measure of the bill – obviously it’s not liberal enough.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:11 am

2000 Census
Age Both sexes
18 4,051,598
19 4,127,855
20 4,049,448

FrankLeeDarling

December 19th, 2009
11:15 am

obstructionism is all you republicans have left because we threw you out.
In 2010 we will finish what we started.

Rightwing Troll

December 19th, 2009
11:17 am

I haven’t read it, but I do side with the nut sacks on this one. Whatever this final iteration is, it’s fatally flawed…

Obozo should’ve kept the powder dry until Bush’s economy was fixed…

Hillarycare at it’s finest…

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:18 am

Let’s ask 12 year old Diamonte Driver who had an abscessed tooth if he likes the idea of health care reform. Oh, wait, we can’t cause he died from that tooth because his mom had no insurance and couldn’t afford the $80 to have the tooth pulled.

Universal Healthcare: Welcome to civilization, America. Glad you could join us.

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
11:20 am

This is what Chris Dodd just said on CSPAN:

“Health care will now be a right for everyone, not just a privilege for a select few.”

Facts don’t ever mean much to liberals and Democrats. Exactly what part of 84% of Americans HAVE a health care plan is a “select few?”

Idiots.

Jess

December 19th, 2009
11:20 am

How petty of the republicans to want to take ten hours to read a bill which changes our entire healthcare system and cost over a trillion dollars. Picky, picky, picky.

Jo Yo

December 19th, 2009
11:21 am

I like the idea of having several people read different pages of the bill at the same time. If we could get about 100 clerks going we could have this knocked out in about an hour. That would make for some great TV.

pat

December 19th, 2009
11:21 am

With everything you lot wanted stripped out, your calling this a victory? The bill should be read, or do you prefer legislation voted on sight-unseen? There is no public option and no medicare buy in. Wasn’t that the point of your precious reform?
All you your left with is a giant tax hike and the enabling of spiraling health care costs…Good job. My dog can crap better legislation than this..

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:23 am

There are several procedural votes yet to come. This isn’t out of the woods yet.

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
11:24 am

“Universal Healthcare: Welcome to civilization, America. Glad you could join us.”

Don’t you just love how the mindless liberals – who really hate America – attempt to equate a mere 16% of Americans with no health insurance – many of whom are ILLEGAL residents and people who CHOOSE not to pay – is uncivilized? I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but my experience with government-run VA hospitals and my thoughts on being FORCED to pay for a system or face FINES and JAIL is not my idea of civilization. Stalinism, maybe. but not civilized.

Clown Puncher

December 19th, 2009
11:26 am

“How petty of the republicans to want to take ten hours to read a bill which changes our entire healthcare system and cost over a trillion dollars. Picky, picky, picky.”

Yeah the NERVE of Republicans! Don’t forget something that comprises nearly TWENTY PERCENT of our economy….. another little factoid liberal Democrats continue to ignore.

Obama's a Muslim

December 19th, 2009
11:26 am

“Childish and Petty”? Let’s see, $900 billion dollar legislation affecting 1/6 of economy and only a handful of backroom senators have seen the bill. And you have a problem of them reading it aloud so the American public can see what’s in it? I’m SURE there isn’t anything in that 2000 pages to hide, is there? What happened to the “transparent process”, Hussein?

Typical socialists, you don’t need to know what’s in there, we know what’s best for you. Just keep quiet and go along.

BTW Finn, that Diamonte Driver could have brushed his teeth every day….shelters give them out for free and even throw in the toothpaste!!!

And if you think THIS is universal healthcare, you drank a little too much last night….

Jess

December 19th, 2009
11:28 am

It’s interesting to watch the victory dance over a bill which has no single payer provision, no government option, practically no abortion coverage, and no buy in to medicare….Who really won this round?

The important thing though is that the government can now immediately start taxing the segment of society who finances and provides most of the private sector jobs in this country.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:28 am

nearly or factoid, clown puncher

which one is it? I guess liberal democrats know the differnce.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:30 am

mwuahahahahahaha

This is step 1. Raising the taxes is step 2.

jconservative

December 19th, 2009
11:33 am

If you will look at the potential “60 votes” Reid is claiming he has, you will see that only a small handful are from senators who are balancing on a political limb being sawed off. And I would bet that every senator who votes “aye” has private poll/focus group results that show that the vote is OK in his state. These folks are not going to vote on principle, it will be a pure “what’s best for me” vote.

larry

December 19th, 2009
11:36 am

I wonder how many people are actually watching the bill being read. I think it is funnly that these people make over 160,000 a year, have government run healthcare paid for by the TAXPAYER, but yet dont want people to have decent health care coverage. Amazing

larry

December 19th, 2009
11:38 am

Jess

December 19th, 2009
11:38 am

Whew! that was a close call. I guess the US government will not collapse now as Obama predicted it would if this didn’t pass. I’m sure this is what tipped the scales since a lot of people did not realize our government would collapse with out this watered down bill.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
11:38 am

I need to go watch Fox news. Get some popcorn…watch the idiots blowing their gaskets.

mwuahahahahaha

Kamchak

December 19th, 2009
11:43 am

I need to go watch Fox news. Get some popcorn…watch the idiots blowing their gaskets.

And this would be different from their daily routine?

Jess

December 19th, 2009
11:45 am

Finn,

The tax increase for the top 5% of earners, of which 70% are small businesses, is already in the bill to go into effect immediately. Also in the bill are tax increases for medical providers, medical suppliers, medical manufacturers, insurance companies, and pretty much anything that has the word medical in it. Now who do you suppose these increases will be passed on to.

Obama's a Muslim

December 19th, 2009
11:56 am

Finn: “Step 2, raise taxes”, he he he he he

Oh yeah, that’ll go over well with the voters, the same ones that by nearly a 60% margin, don’t want this healthcare bill to pass.

Actually, I’m glad that Reid did this. If you think this bill will stop the 8-20% annual increase in premiums for next year and 2011, you’re just out of your mind. Then, with M’care cuts kicking in and access/rationing becoming worse, the public will look back and see this was an ENTIRELY Democrat bill. Meanwhile, the looney left like Boxer and Dean will remain pi$$ed off about the abortion aspect, and they will revolt as well.

Actually, the more I think about it, this doomed bill is a conservative’s dream!!!!! Go Harry!!!!

getalife

December 19th, 2009
11:59 am

This is how the dems will govern for the next 3 years.

They are center right.

The gop are far right.

So rahm told the libs they have no representation.

Paul

December 19th, 2009
12:06 pm

Hi Finn! 10:42

I was just pointing out that we have just over a million, less than two in the active forces. And the 18 to 21 year olds number in the millions and millions and millions. I doubt if there are that many support positions! (and those contractor functions were taken out of the military pursuant to OBM Circular A-76 under the theory and law that the gov’t should not provide service the private sector can provide). (the total cost, not just wages, has to be at least 10% savings to do a transfer).

Off to to go to the Texas – NC game. Later –

As I said earlier, it’s a noble sentiment, but kinda unworkable. I even will offer that the availability of millions more military will increase the chances of adventurism, not lessen it. I think we’re militarized far too much already.

But hey, what opinion would you expect from a reactionist neocon? :-)

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
12:06 pm

to do reform you have to start somewhere. Where did the Republicans suggest we start?

Oh, yeah, they have no ideas and no suggestions. I guess the Democrats have to do the work…as with everything else….

ByteMe

December 19th, 2009
12:07 pm

CBO scoring is out: $132 billion in deficit reduction over 10 years compared to current baseline.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
12:08 pm

Paul, the military wasn’t the only option I was suggesting. in fact, most people of that age wouldn’t choose military service if there were other options.

And we’re talking about roughly 10-15 million. Not 26 million.

Mrs. Green Jeans

December 19th, 2009
12:10 pm

[These folks are not going to vote on principle, it will be a pure “what’s best for me” vote]

politics 101.

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
12:16 pm

Too bad the conservatives don’t like this bill. But we did vote them out of office for a reason. So, we may decide next fall that we give a rats arse what they think but right now, nope.

Jess

December 19th, 2009
12:17 pm

Finn,

Your statement implies that reform needed to happen. This is not the feeling of the 70% of people who were perfectly happy with their health care arrangements prior to the democrat panic. These people, even according to government figures, will see their health cost rise with incresed insurance rates.

Had the govt. pursued fixing the problem of the uninsured, this would have passed a long time ago. This was the republican plan by the way. Instead they pursued total reform of a system the vast majority are happy with.

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 19th, 2009
12:25 pm

Seems to me, every bill they vote on should be read aloud. Most of them obviously won’t hear what’s in it any other way.

There’s no public option and there’s no Medicare buy in, so really, what is there left to argue about. This thing stands to be an insurance industry dream come true. People will be required to buy insurance and the insurance industry will be able to point to the no pre-existing conditions stipulation as a justification for raising the rates for everybody. It’ll be a windfall for them. I’d even hazard a guess that in a couple years they’ll be announcing record profits. You got to hand it to them though, they’ve played the Congress like a cheap violin and gotten exactly what they wanted, more customers and no competition.

On a lighter note, here’s a little Christmas thing I just discovered this morning. I think it’s cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCFCeJTEzNU

jokerman

December 19th, 2009
12:30 pm

Sunshine and Thunder You state ” If Americans knew what was in the bill they’d revolt.”

Well, please enlighten us as to what lurks in this bill that would cause us to revolt!

Finn McCool

December 19th, 2009
12:32 pm

some of the “good” from the legislation:

The proposals would allow young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance plans as dependents into their mid-20s. (Good because they probably wont have a job that offers health care and/or they wont be making enough to afford it on their own)

Small business owners would be able to shop for insurance for workers through a health insurance exchange. Neither of the bills would require them to provide coverage. Both bills provide tax credits to help small companies with average wages of less than $40,000 provide health insurance.

In the leading Senate proposal, people with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($14,404 for an individual in 2009) could enroll in Medicaid. The House bill makes the cutoff 150 percent of the poverty level ($16,245 for an individual in 2009).

Closes the doughnut hole. More than 3 million Medicare beneficiaries a year fall in the coverage gap in Medicare’s prescription drug program – the “doughnut hole” – that the health bills have promised to close. People in this gap start paying the full cost of their drugs until they qualify for catastrophic coverage.

This info is extracted from this story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/19/whats-in-health-care-prop_n_398066.html

Southern Comfort

December 19th, 2009
12:35 pm

HD

You get no argument from me on your points. I’ve been thinking about just trying to make a deal with my ins. co. to just turn my check over to them and they just give me what’s left. No matter what happens with this bill, the American people well get shafted.

josef nix

December 19th, 2009
12:50 pm

PAUL–
In the discussion over a return to the draft, there are two points to be made. In the volunteer military one region of the country comprising less than 20% of the national population accounts for 30% of the casualties in the two wars. Two race/ethnic groups comprising less than 20% of the population account for over 30% of the casualties. Figures for the economic class are not available. A disproportiate “share” falls on “those people.”

I would opt for a two-year national service which would be required of all citizens, with the option of military or other public service with exemption allowed only for matters of health and no “education” deferrment.

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
12:54 pm

joseph, I fully back the two year mandatory service for all Americans.

thomas

December 19th, 2009
1:03 pm

Yippie,
Watered-down health carereform, that is still going to leave 2/3 of those uninsured still uninsured. Can anyone actually explain to me what this bill is going to reform and how? Or is this now nothing more than an attempt by Democrats to pas a health care bill simply for the sake of saying they passed a bill?

BTW health care is a good or service, not a right. Look it up throughout history, and all of its great thinkers, and it shows rights are only those things that our creator, or ourselves are give to us through birth. The rights to what our bodies can directly produce.

Health care is no more a right than food, shelter and clothing, but somehow it has now become a right such as free speech and the choice to worship how one chooses.

But again Yippie, we are getting close to passing an absolutely meaningless bill. But I am sure you loyal democrats will be happy to pound your chest.

Southern Comfort

December 19th, 2009
1:05 pm

josef

I would even go as far as to not have an exemption for matters of health. I would prefer a limit to requirements for those with health issues but not an outright exemption. I see it as an opportunity for the young to meld together as one America instead of growing up and growing apart. Let the young experience what this country has to offer whether it’s with the military, with the public sector, or even working with a non-profit.

Kamchak

December 19th, 2009
1:05 pm

josef

Have you seen the independent film Karov La Bayit?

AF

December 19th, 2009
1:07 pm

OH, well. I don’t really trust all those who say they are going to vote for it really will. Someone else will want something else.

My bet is Lieberman will find some reason he just can’t support the bill. Last minute “realization” and he will be a hero of at least some faction of the Republicans.

Sunshine and Thunder

December 19th, 2009
1:09 pm

Jokerman:

Here you go. It will require some serious reading on your part. I suggest you start with the “Cost Control Bill of Goods” from Dec. 14 and go from there. The administration either outright lies about the bill or blows so much smoke one can’t see or breathe. Please enlighten yourself.

thomas

December 19th, 2009
1:09 pm

May I ask a simple question, why in a nation based on freedom of choice would we want to Require anyone to serve the GOVT in any capacity? It is in my opinion kinda forcing people to provide charity. If a person wants to give that is one thing but if you force someone to do something then it is nothing more than slavery!

Sunshine and Thunder

December 19th, 2009
1:10 pm

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
1:10 pm

I’m sorry folks but Paul has declared the logistics of implementing a draft to be too much. So, we’ll just have to figure out another way. We could always just stop the wars. That would eliminate the need for a draft and hence the logistical problem is moot. How ’bout that, Paul.

Southern Comfort

December 19th, 2009
1:18 pm

thomas

I don’t think that advocating for a national service is automatically requiring anyone to serve the Government. I think the national service could be done either thru government, private sector, or non-profit.

I don’t think anyone here is equating national service with government service. However, I could be wrong based on the reasoning that’s been exhibited on this blog in the past.

AmVet

December 19th, 2009
1:20 pm

Conscription would divide this country almost like nothing else.

Yet, there are pluses and minuses in my mind.

But one of the good things it might do though is to shut up the worst of these craven and chest pounding BushCo chickenhawks. With some skin in the game. I ASSURE you their empty bravado would disappear faster than the snows on Kilimanjaro…

And I’m still a fan of Draft from the Top. Conscript Barbara and Jenna and the eligible kids of all those who vote to send other people’s kid to their deaths.

You know like George of the Bungle said, share in the sacrifice…

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
1:28 pm

josef nix

December 19th, 2009
1:33 pm

K’chak’s film reference, while I haven’t seen it but have seen many Israel films with similar themes, brings up a point which may ge of value in the call for universal service. Israel’s demand of universal service has been credited with forging a national identity among what is one the most diverse states on the planet. As our own nation becomes increasingly diverse, some would say factionalized, such would bring together young people at the most impressionable stages of their development. I will go one step further, possibly at the risk of offending some, but among historians the much vaunted/maligned Southern “solidity” is an outgrowth of the period when society was “levelled” by conditions which, praqy G-d, we Americans will never have to endure as a nation. If we look at the “greatest generation” of Americans, WWII, we see a generation,which, while remaining proud of their various identities, drew strength from seeing those as component parts of the whole. This was not from some high flown and rhetorically expressed indoctrination, but from the service to their country in environments where there was no “choice” in who you’d be spending your time with…

For those who would want to bring up that the military in that generation was not “integrated,” I would put forth the argument that this is true, and it was only after that national service was integrated in the Vietnam experience that the great move forward in matters of equal rights in the civilian world became fait accompli as veterans of the national service came back home with the experience of having served together as Americans.

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
1:34 pm

thomas, freedom isn’t free

josef nix

December 19th, 2009
1:43 pm

SoCo

“I don’t think that advocating for a national service is automatically requiring anyone to serve the Government.”

I am amazed at how many of our citizens do not distinguish between the nation and the government. What I am advocating here is service to our nation, which has, for all it’s flaws and shortcomings, given us so much and not our government, the representatives of our nation which, by and large, are NOT one of those gifts. But, we do get what we deserve by voting in the scoundrels time and time again…

AmVet–
Of course it would be divisive, but ONLY if we allowed exemptions. I don’t have much respect for Copy Me Biden, but we speak the same language when we talk about our boys in harm’s way in service to their nation…

Kamchak

December 19th, 2009
1:46 pm

josef

I’ve tried to watch that film several times when it comes on IFC. At the risk of using the obvious phrase, it is too foreign for me to empathize. The only thing the two main characters share, is their dislike for the mandatory service.

josef nix

December 19th, 2009
1:52 pm

K’chak,
“The only thing the two main characters share, is their dislike of the mandatory service.”

This is a common thread in the Israeli films. It is, in and of itself, perhaps that unifying factor. A Falasha from Ethiopia and the son/daughter of a priviledged capitalist from America have that in common and, as flippant as it sounds, gives them “something to talk about.” We don’t even have that as it stands now…

TW

December 19th, 2009
1:57 pm

And God Blesses the Dems and our new POTUS would a beautiful, white weekend :)

AMERICA IS BACK!

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 19th, 2009
1:58 pm

Just a thought.

Maybe if we had a draft we wouldn’t need Blackwater and other private contractors.

Taxpayer

December 19th, 2009
2:03 pm

Well, it’s about time we got some legislation that aims to restrict the insurance companies from supporting the promiscuous behavior of our young women through payment for abortions. Hopefully, this will put an end to people expecting others to pay for all forms of abortion, up to and including latex. I mean, just look at all the abortions! All the needless deaths. If they’re going to do it, let it be on their own dime. And, remember ladies, just because your husband’s insured prescription for Viagra keeps him up at night, it does not mean that your headaches and backaches have to magically disappear. Tell him to go lobby for the satisfaction that he so desperately needs.

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
2:03 pm

National Service:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1657256_1657317,00.html

The writer doesn’t like the idea of mandatory service but I do.

Curious Observer

December 19th, 2009
2:04 pm

Well, then, if we’re going to use “dislike for the mandatory service” as a reason not to institute a draft, then I’m going to demand reparations. Nobody was disliking it enough to abolish it back when I was turning 18 and the choice was either volunteer or be drafted. And I’m not talking about a “lottery” such as existed during Vietnam. It was every male, period. Of course, the well-to-do still managed to stick their kids in college to shield them, a la Cheney. Or should that be a le Cheney, Josef?

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
2:06 pm

hillbilly, exactly. those who chose to do their service in the military would help fill out the roles of the military contractors we are now paying megabucks.

Senator McCaskill’s report says there are 160,000 contractors in Afghanistan but that number is includes just those who are over there, not the entire support network.

josef nix

December 19th, 2009
2:10 pm

Curious Observer–
Well, depends on which Cheney (calling all Bosches!) we’re talking about, Pappy or Mary… :-)

You do, though, raise a good point. The well-to-do and connected would still find a way to get the best deal for their spawn, but as I see a universal national service, these bairns to the manor would still be required that national service even if it were in the more “elite” branches with plum assignments, it would still be two years of their priviledged existence given as payback to the society…

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 19th, 2009
2:12 pm

If there is a draft, I don’t think there should ever be student deferments again. The Vietnam War draft ended the year before I came up. I remember very well though, who got drafted and who didn’t. Sort of like that line in Charlie Daniel’s “Long Haired Country Boy”……”a rich man goes to college and poor man goes to work”………back then it was more like a rich man went to college and a poor man got drafted, unless the rich man chose to volunteer.

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
2:14 pm

Kids who signed up for the military service couldn’t be put in a war zone. If they wanted to stay in the military they would be available for dangerous duty at that time.

But, they could certainly help on the service side of conflict. They could also go to filling out all those positions at military bases around the world which would free up the active duty military personnel for the war zones.

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
2:20 pm

They could also go to filling out all those positions at military bases around the world

Now what teenager wouldn’t choose that? There’s a base in Italy i’ll go to right now at the age of 43!

FinnMcCool

December 19th, 2009
2:24 pm

Those who favor national service, including a military element, argue that it is a simple responsibility of citizenship that young people should incur in exchange for the fortune of being an American. George Washington and the 1918 Supreme Court embraced this view.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1657256_1657626_1656898,00.html

LA

December 19th, 2009
2:24 pm

Jay, does this not come across as a personal attack?

Rightwing Troll writes: I do side with the nut sacks

Is NUT SACK not a personal attack?

Yesterday you spoke of childish behavior and yet you say nothing about this.