GWTW, Atlanta and the strange twists of history

LBMPE2-005c

“There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave. Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind.”

History has such a funny way of playing tricks on you. Just when you think it’s headed in one direction, something or other has already come along and begun to alter its course profoundly, in ways that are visible only in hindsight.

Seventy years ago today, for example, Atlanta was throwing itself one helluva party. The occasion was the world premiere of a little movie called “Gone With the Wind,” and judging from eyewitness accounts, the event became a celebration of the highly romanticized Old South and a vindication of the stories that Southerners — or at least white Southerners — liked to tell themselves about the war and its aftermath, including their relationship with their African-American countrymen.

Here’s how Time magazine described the scene in 1939:

Atlanta’s Mayor William B. Hartsfield proclaimed a three-day festival. Hartsfield urged every Atlanta woman to put on hoop skirts and pantalets, appealed to every male to don tight trousers and a beaver (hat), sprout a goatee, sideburns and Kentucky colonel whiskers.

While the Stars and Bars flapped from every building, some 300,000 Atlantans and visitors lined up for seven miles to watch the procession of limousines bring British Vivien Leigh (in tears as thousands welcomed her “back home”), Clark Gable, his wife Carole Lombard, Producer David O. Selznick, Laurence Olivier and others from the airport. Crowds larger than the combined armies that fought at Atlanta in July 1864 waved Confederate flags, tossed confetti till it seemed to be snowing, gave three different versions of the Rebel yell, whistled, cheered, goggled.

And when the movie began at Loew’s Grand Theater downtown (now the site of the Georgia Pacific building) a Life magazine reporter wrote that “cheers went up and tears flowed freely. At the announcement of War (1861), the audience rose to its feet with Rebel yells (Yee-aay-ee or wah-hoo-ee or yaaa-yeee).”

W.J. Cash, in his 1941 classic “The Mind of the South,” called Margaret Mitchell’s book “a sort of new confession of the Southern faith” and the scene at the Atlanta movie premiere “one of the most remarkable which America has seen in our time.”

He wrote:

“… in the event it turned into a high ritual for the reassertion of the legend of the Old South. Atlanta became a city of pilgrimage for people from the entire region. The ceremonies were accompanied by great outbursts of emotion, which bore no relationship to the actual dramatic value of a somewhat dull and thin performance. And later on, when the picture was shown in the other towns of the South, attendance at the theaters took on the definite character of a patriotic act.”

But the GWTW premiere, complete with balls, parades and old-timey spirituals by choirs hired from local black churches, proved to be the high-water mark of the Lost Cause mythology and the Jim Crow laws it tried to justify. It was, you might say, a cultural version of Pickett’s charge at Gettysburg. Already, events were conspiring to bring it all crashing down.

Some of the hints of impending change came from those who weren’t even there. Hattie McDaniel, who played Mammie, was barred from the festivities in Atlanta. But out in Hollywood, she would go on to win the Academy Award for best supporting actress, becoming the first African American to win an acting Oscar. Leslie Howard, who played the ineffectual Ashley Wilkes, also had to miss the Atlanta festivities. He had returned to his native England to help in the war against Nazi Germany, which had begun just a few months earlier. (Howard would die in 1943 when the Germans shot down his plane.)

Within two years, America would be drawn into that war as well. And even though World War II was fought almost exclusively on foreign soil, it nonetheless planted the seeds of immense change in the American South. Black war veterans came home to Georgia, Alabama and other places having seen the world, and were much less willing to accept the subservient roles they had been handed. Just as important, American leaders understood that the nation could not plausibly lay claim to world leadership and moral power as long as it officially sanctioned white supremacy back home.

Within nine years of the GWTW premiere, President Harry Truman had ordered the complete desegregation of the U.S. military. Within 15 years, the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled in Brown v. Board of Education that segregated schools were unconstitutional. Nobody in Atlanta 70 years ago today could have foreseen that the agents of so much change were already taking their places on the stage.

One of the many photographs of the gala premiere is particularly compelling. It’s a picture of one of the local black choirs that were hired to entertain the white folks from Hollywood. Its members are all dressed in slave costume, as if they were ready to go out into the fields to pick cotton once their singing duties were complete.

And if you look closely, one of the faces is that of a little ten-year-old boy from just a few blocks down the street, a kid named Martin Luther King Jr. In just a few short years, he too would begin to make his mark on history.

466 comments Add your comment

iRun

December 15th, 2009
12:30 pm

Whoa, that photo is something.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 15th, 2009
12:33 pm

Love the history stuff, thanks Jay.

jt

December 15th, 2009
12:34 pm

The banksters were only offered water????

OMG.

Southern Comfort

December 15th, 2009
12:35 pm

Where do I go to see these photos?

getalife

December 15th, 2009
12:35 pm

The Yankees won then and now.

Jenifer

December 15th, 2009
12:36 pm

Hattie McDaniel was superb!

Peadawg

December 15th, 2009
12:42 pm

I guess being from a younger generation, I’ve tried to watch GWTW, but I just couldn’t finish it. Too long. Drags out waaay too much.

Southern Comfort

December 15th, 2009
12:42 pm

Umm..

Nevermind, Guess had I looked at the caption on the pic, I wouldn’t have had to ask that.

Midori

December 15th, 2009
12:43 pm

and there are some on this blog who are still stuck in that era.

hence, all the Obama feigned outrage…..

Karl Marx

December 15th, 2009
12:46 pm

Well Mr. Bookman as the prolog states the old south is a civilization gone with the wind. As time marches on to the left right swing of the pendulum I wonder when the civilization that took the place of the old south will be thrown on the scrap heap of history and be gone with the wind. Who then will be the next object to scorn?

Mrs. Godzilla

December 15th, 2009
12:46 pm

Completely and entirely OFF TOPIC….

but worth watching

a 1943 cartoon in which Donald Duck argues the virtues of tax paying as a wartime, Axis-fighting measure:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/12/donald-duck-and-the-war-tax.php

That’s one damn fine American Duck!

(There were always cartoons before the movie when I was a kid….)

AmVet

December 15th, 2009
12:46 pm

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
12:48 pm

That was a good read, Jay.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!

December 15th, 2009
12:51 pm

So what do you libs think about Obozo gutting the health care legislation, just so he can get a legacy vote on some empty paper?

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!

December 15th, 2009
12:51 pm

Is that just not so vain?

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 15th, 2009
12:53 pm

Midori

December 15th, 2009
12:43 pm

As much as you would like to believe it I must state otherwise…GWTW and the kenyan are not inter-related.

Obobo would have never acheived election when this movie premiered. Sad part is he became president based on his merits. This alone just goes to prove what a very stupid lot we have in the US electorate.

Thanks for playing…*FLUSH*

Southern Comfort

December 15th, 2009
12:53 pm

Taxpayer

Left you a response to your post downstairs about the game.

Sunshine and Thunder

December 15th, 2009
12:56 pm

Interesting. I used to go to the Lowe’s Grand often. I saw GWTW there in the 1960’s. Margaret Mitchell was a friend of my family long ago. Thanks, Jay.

AmVet

December 15th, 2009
12:58 pm

But the good news?

“Pray for Rain” got the secessionists their Stars & Bars back! (Sort of) Yee-haw!

Midori

December 15th, 2009
1:00 pm

Mr. Outhouse,

you, like your name, are something I have absolutely no use for.

Let me know when you have something useful to say to me.

Brad Steel

December 15th, 2009
1:07 pm

It was made into a movie?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 15th, 2009
1:09 pm

Well, them were the days. When Those People knew their place and us Southreners could have the KKK and do about anything we wanted to do. There wasn’t no baby mamas back then and no welfare queens either. The people that served us in Congress were 100% White and every kid in every schoolroom prayed to Jesus that the teacher wouldn’t bust his butt.

It’s all gone, gone with the wind. This Civil Rights junk just ruint everything down here. Have a good p.m. everybody.

FrankLeeDarling

December 15th, 2009
1:13 pm

Very cool Jay,thanks!

Gale

December 15th, 2009
1:39 pm

Mrs G, The new Disney family museum in San Francisco has an entire room devoted to Disney’s wartime efforts. Among them were some interesting training films.

Jay, interesting piece. The shapshot of history in Atlanta is as noteworthy as the snapshot of history in the book.
I remember being very disappointed in the movie when I finally saw it. I had read the book four times. I was about 14, I think. The Tarleton twins were much better looking in the book.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 15th, 2009
1:44 pm

Gale

I also preferred the book to the movie…..but damn I loved that first dress Scarlet wore…….white light and airy…with little sprigs of green – a dress little girls dreams were made of.

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
1:47 pm

WOW Gone With The Wind…………………aka The longest movie EVER.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 15th, 2009
1:48 pm

Gale

You reminded me of this…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeT45BELVzY

When it was my turn to see it, my mom took me and she knitted the whole way through it – said she’d seen it 4 times already.

Was there a Disney film for boys?

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
1:51 pm

Southern Comfort,

Thanks for that link. Now, if we could only get the real banker’s heads stuck through those holes and give every taxpayer a whack at ‘em.

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
1:53 pm

Midori,

Outhouses do serve a useful purpose. So, sit back. Relax. Take a load off. :smile:

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2009
1:55 pm

“Outhouses do serve a useful purpose”

Not when they work in reverse.

Midori

December 15th, 2009
2:01 pm

lol, Taxie :)

Howya doing? I’ve been reading you “trying” to educate the deaf, dumb and neurotic :)

Midori

December 15th, 2009
2:01 pm

good one, Doggone :)

jconservative

December 15th, 2009
2:07 pm

GWTW – fiction. The whole “old south” routine – fiction.

Southerners spent many generations creating a work of fiction around the “War Between the States”, as they liked to call it. And, unfortunately, it is not yet dead. You can still find it. But it is still fiction. Always has been, always will be.

————–
Redneck Convert – you usually get it about right and you did again.
—————

Gale “The shapshot of history in Atlanta is as noteworthy as the snapshot of history in the book.”

I am sorry but this thought is 100% dead wrong. There is no history in the book – only pure fiction. The universe Margaret Mitchell created never existed.

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2009
2:21 pm

Why the Present Depression Will Be Deeper than the Great Crash of 1929

Bonus for those willing to take the time to read this: a history of the Great Depression and the events leading up to it. AND, a history of the last 26 years and the events leading up to our current situation. AND, the parallels between the two.

If you don’t have time to read it now, save the link and read it later.

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
2:29 pm

Midori,

It’s the neurotic that’ll getcha every time.

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
2:31 pm

Jay, this story reminds me of the one that talked about the brick industry down Atlanta way and the “cheap” labor that the police kept them stocked with, if I recall correctly. Do you have a link to that story. I’d like to read it again.

College Professor

December 15th, 2009
2:36 pm

Within six years of the GWTW premier, a man named Branch Rickey hired a Georgia native named Jack Roosevelt Robinson to break the color line in organized baseball. That event was a real turning point in American race relations, just as the desegregation of the armed forces was. Years later Robinson, Roy Campanella, and Don Newcombe were talking in their hotel room after a road game and heard a knock on the door. It was another Georgia native, Dr. Martin Luther King, who came to acknowledge that they had made his work easier.

Normal

December 15th, 2009
2:40 pm

Storytime, boys and girls…story time.
you guys may remeber the days when the Buffalo Bills had gone to five Super Bowls in a row…and lost every one of them. Well back in the late ’80s I was working at Electric Boat,where our Navy Submariens are built, and had a Yankee friend (a Bill fan) who always kidded me about the War of Northern Aggression and when the Mini Series “North and South” was aired he said why watch it, it always ends the same, you lose. I asked him why watch the Bills in the Super Bowl? They always lose too.

Later on, another guy from South Carolina came to work for us and my Yankee friend, asked us why “us Rebels” were coming up here to work. I looked around to see if anybody was listening, then I said, “Don’t tell anyone, but we’re up here to learn how to build submarines for the Confederacy”. Shoulda seen the look on his face…

Kamchak

December 15th, 2009
2:42 pm

Normal

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Matilda

December 15th, 2009
2:49 pm

jconservative at 2:07, SO TRUE! The moneyed created and sustained pop-culture myths justifying their crimes to rally the support of the poor and working classes to maintain their privileged status. “Things are/were GREAT! Reject change in the name of God and decency!” They’re still doing it today. “Reject the death tax! Keep the government out of my most excellent, expensive heath care!” Poor suckers go along with it, deluded that they’ll be special one day too. Of course, it doesn’t happen. (Unless they feel super special in a straw hat with teabags dangling from the brim.)

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
2:57 pm

(Unless they feel super special in a straw hat with teabags dangling from the brim.)

If they don’t, the laugh you just gave me, sure made ME feel good!!

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 15th, 2009
3:08 pm

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2009
2:21 pm

Well that didnt sound very optimistic, Whatsoever… :-(

TnGelding

December 15th, 2009
3:08 pm

Touching commentary. Ah, the good old days. It’s easy to write about, but it took courage to take the actions described, something that is sorely lacking these days.

Lord, have mercy on our souls.

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2009
3:08 pm

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:19 pm

For the love of G-d, folks, GWTW was an epic romance. It bears about as much relation to the period it treats as “Doctor Zhivago” does to that period it deals with in Russia. The problem here is that those yapping about it have little or no real knowledge of the period it treats and no real basis for judging its historical accuracy. It was sympathetic to the C*nfederates and that’s enough in their illiterate eyes to d*mn it spot on.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 15th, 2009
3:20 pm

40-50% taxes???

What?

Isn’t 35% the highest bracket for 2009?

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:20 pm

Oh, yeah, and before I forget, President Walking Eagle’s American ancestors were on the Scarlet O’Hara side….ah, history!

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 15th, 2009
3:21 pm

Govt services are the main problem. Too many public giveaways to those who produce squat or bother not to find and/or hold a job ie once again THE LAZY and THE BOTTOM-FEEDERS.

Scout

December 15th, 2009
3:23 pm

You forgot all of the Yankee slave traders out of Northern ports even after it was banned in 1807, the Northern laws forbidding the immigration of former slaves, the right to vote and the posting of “bonds” to even enter a northern state. Oh, and don’t forget those people in Boston overturning school buses because of “forced busing” not too long ago. I have lived in the North and South and there is no comparison as to which area is the worst for pure racism …….. the North!

……….. and it wasn’t a civil war ……… it was a war between the United (not true) States of America and the Confederate States of America.

Deo Vindice

Scout

December 15th, 2009
3:24 pm

P.S.

……….. and don’t forget about all those “Buffalo Soldiers” who went out West and killed all those native Americans. They were pretty good at it.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:26 pm

Scout–
“They” don’t want to hear any of that!

While we’re at it, how many of you detractors know of the Margaret Mitchell endowment of scholarships for medical students at Moorehouse?

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:28 pm

Scout…
Yeah, the Buffalo Soldiers, mention them in this household and watch a rather calm, cool and collected liberal minded Choctaw-Cherokee go into near apoplectic seizure…

wet wiccan

December 15th, 2009
3:31 pm

Josef Nix -

Well, fiddle-dee-dee!!

Scout

December 15th, 2009
3:33 pm

josef nix:

People like to revile the Confederate “battle flag” but just remember the last thing a lot of native Americans saw before they got that bullet between their eyes and went to the happy hunting ground was the “stars and stripes”. Time to ban it?

Gale

December 15th, 2009
3:33 pm

Ok, ok, GWTW was a romance, not real history. It was enough for my adolescent mind to grasp. Perhaps unlike a snapshot, it was more of an impressionist painting.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:35 pm

wet-wiccan–
Appreciate the lighthearted, but this one and the faux rage it brings out among the so-called liberals is one of those that grates on my nerves…ignorant peasants, one and all!

Normal

December 15th, 2009
3:36 pm

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:28 pm

Josef, remind the “Unmentional” that if they had better immigration in the beginning, none of it would have happened…jus’ sayin’ :)

Normal

December 15th, 2009
3:36 pm

Unmentional” You know who I mean… :D

The Professor

December 15th, 2009
3:37 pm

Gale @ 3:33 Thank you…enough said!!

Scout

December 15th, 2009
3:37 pm

I guess you would have had to have been there – back when a state was your country ………………… :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAfHigPsC_s

Normal

December 15th, 2009
3:38 pm

AmVet

December 15th, 2009
12:46 pm
Forget, Hell.

What? You found religion??!!

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:38 pm

Scout–
Sister Cynthia and her lot of hate-mongers pooh-pooh’ed Unmentionable’s comment during the flag fracas that “well how the h*ll to you think my Noble Savage self feels looking at the stars and stripes. Ban it right along with the Cross of St. Andrew since a whole lot more was done to “my” people under it than the rebel banner…”

Matilda

December 15th, 2009
3:44 pm

The more compelling theme of GWTW is the strength and perseverence of the main character. At first glance, she’s born rich, spoiled, selfish, and greedy — not overly likable. As my own years unfolded, I began to understand the real value of her tale. A woman in that time, regardless of social standing, had few choices. Unable to attend UGA, major in Finance, and land a job at Accenture, she HAD to be calculating and shrewd, stabbing her sisters in the back even, to attain any sense of security. While Melanie Wilkes was the epitome of the feminine ideal of the time (and even now) Scarl-Oh knew she’d have to take a more aggressive, selfish approach to survive in her world. While many of her actions remain unjustifiable (IMO), she made her choices and had the guts to do what the meek would not. They withered; she lived with her choices and her sin, honest at least with herself. Romance, (IMO) is the secondary theme. Survival is the first.

Scout

December 15th, 2009
3:45 pm

josef nix:

I hear you. Just remember, if you “win” you get to write the history. People back then identified more with their state or region than a “country”. That’s why the colonists (really only about 10% who had the guts to fight) rebelled against England. In my honest opinion, if the North had not INVADED the South, it would have all worked out, most or all Souhtern States would have returned to the Union, slavery would have eventually been abolished and without all of the reconstruction and rancor that exists to this day.

Washington, Adams, Jefferson were only patriots because we won. Otherwise, they would have been hung as traitors and you may not even know their names.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
3:52 pm

matilda–
On Scarlet…one of the things the detractors don’t want to talk about is that from the Potomac to the Rio Grande, the Southern whites lost one in three of their breeding age males (age 15-45), another one out of every three was permanently incapacitated through the loss of an eye, a limb, etc, (the largest single item in Mississippi’s 1868 budget was for prostheses) and the remaining one of three was without any rights…(in some districts such as my home district, the figures were 75%)…these women were faced with trying to get on with mere survival in a burnt-to-the-ground wasteland…yes, it is a story of survival and I resent like all h*ll these snippy a**es demeaning that experience…

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
3:55 pm

Scout that’s why the Constitution was ammended, after the Civil War, to let the states know that they are not bigger than the whole. There is no separation from the whole.

Taxpayer

December 15th, 2009
3:57 pm

Well, I wonder what Obama thinks about abortion.

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
3:57 pm

josef: regardless of who won the war, slavery was, is and will always be WRONG. You can’t have a land half slave and half free and consider the country where “All Men Are Created Equal”, to be equal with a slave state.

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
3:58 pm

Taxpayer…………please, please, PLEASE don’t start with abortion today. Please

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 15th, 2009
3:58 pm

GWTW was an epic romance. It bears about as much relation to the period it treats as “Doctor Zhivago” does to that period it deals with in Russia.

True enough but that’s not what people want to see. As Paul Simon said in The Boxer , “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest”.

Gale

December 15th, 2009
3:59 pm

And so GWTW -at the time it was written and the time it was put to film- had to be an impressionist view of the South at the time. It would have been entirely too grim to show the reality. Who would want to watch that?

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:00 pm

DDR

As a point of history, the question of secession was not settled in the Civil War…it’s one of the ironies of history,,,

Matilda

December 15th, 2009
4:00 pm

josef, EXACTLY! Not to detract from hell that the slaves or the Union soldiers suffered, but the people of the South — only a FEW of whom actually stood to benefit from the war — suffered horribly. And it still goes on today. Rich men wanting to protect or further their fortunes get into politics, rile people up, and start wars in which common people fight, die, and suffer. Forget the lawyers, let’s kill all the PR people who make THAT *bleep* sound good!

“They make me sick! All of them. Getting us into this mess with their swaggering boast.” Scarlett O’Hara

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:03 pm

DDR

No one is arguing that slavery was right in the moral sense, but it was constitutional and was a NATIONAL error, not just a regional one…

While we’re at it, how many of y’all have ever read Plessy v Ferguson? The only dissenting vote was that of Justice Harlan, the lone Southerner on the court and himself born into a slave-owning family, His dissent is WELL worth reading…

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:06 pm

matilda–
When this Iraq mess took off, Unmentionable made the comment, “and once again there they go with no plan whatsoever for reconstruction. And, best case scenario, 150 years from now two fat and sassy Iraqis sitting on the balcony in a prestige postal code will be cursing the Yankee invaders and nothing will be lost in the translation…”

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:08 pm

GALE
Your choice of the term “impressionist” is appropriate. That’s why it’s an epic romance. That’s what an epic romance is.

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 15th, 2009
4:09 pm

Josef

I read Plessy v Ferguson. It should be required reading in school I think.

I’m sure Josef will know but who knows who spoke the following:

“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and to form one that suits them better. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may make their own of such territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority intermingling with or near them who oppose their movement.”

Matilda

December 15th, 2009
4:13 pm

DDR at 3:58: I agree and know of no one who’d argue your point. But slavery was the PR justification for that war. The Emancipation Proc. only freed slaves in states “in rebellion.” It was about commerce, taxes, and power. Women and gay people STILL don’t have equal rights in this country, after all these years. The ideals of the founding fathers were just that: Ideals, and weren’t meant for everyone. They talked of the power of the common man, but the remnants of the medieval feudal system are still with us. Note how the wealthy still employ techniques of division to keep the masses at each other’s throats while they sit comfortably atop the economic ladder. Madoff and his wannabees take billions, and I’m directed to hate a little brown woman who needs a few groceries to feed a hungry child. Yup. She’s the cause of all my woes, according to my rich-azz congressman.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:15 pm

Hillbilly–

I had never considered “The Boxer” in relation to this topic, but, man, does it resonate…
Me? “I have squandered my resistance for a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises..”

“…I am leaving, I am leaving, but the fighter still remains…”

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:17 pm

matilda–

“Illegal” aliens, the slaves of our time and place…same song, different verse…150 years from now, G-d willing, our descendents will be excoriating us for our moral failures…

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
4:19 pm

josef: The 14th Ammendment explicitly states that “States must abide by Federal Law”. This was in direct response to the Civil War.

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
4:22 pm

Matilda: Women and gay people STILL don’t have equal rights in this country, after all these years. The ideals of the founding fathers were just that: Ideals, and weren’t meant for everyone. They talked of the power of the common man, but the remnants of the medieval feudal system are still with us. Note how the wealthy still employ techniques of division to keep the masses at each other’s throats while they sit comfortably atop the economic ladder. Madoff and his wannabees take billions, and I’m directed to hate a little brown woman who needs a few groceries to feed a hungry child. Yup. She’s the cause of all my woes, according to my rich-azz congressman.

Honey, I’ve come to realize that it’s ALWAYS about the money! No matter what other justification people may give you, it’s always comes back to the money. I don’t really know if the bible actually says that money is “the root of all evil”; however but it is certainly true nonetheless.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:24 pm

It’s late night…a knock at the door…a ragged mother with three frightened little ones is begging reguge from the patrollers…will you bring them in and hide them? Well, would you? It happens every day in America and the underground railroad is a reality whether or not you want to believe it…what you would do now is pretty much what you would have done then…

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:26 pm

DDR–
But, again, there is no “law” prohibiting secession…and let’s not forget that Plessy v Ferguson and Williams v Mississippi lent to mockery the 14th and 15th Amendments and it would be 1954 before that was rectified…

But, tell me, is your house a stop on today’s underground railroad?

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
4:27 pm

josef: DDR — No one is arguing that slavery was right in the moral sense, but it was constitutional and was a NATIONAL error, not just a regional one…

True. However when the institution of slavery was steadily being abolished in other regions, the south steadfastly refused to give it up. They pointed to their bibles to justify its use and then held on to their beliefs. When Lincoln ascended to the presidency, a staunch anti-slavery proponent, the south decided to secede rather than live without slaves.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:28 pm

The Bible doesn’t say that “money is the root of all evil,” but that “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil…”

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:31 pm

Lincoln a “staunch anti-slavery…” He was a staunch opponent of the EXPANSION of slavery. He himself said that he was out to save the Union, that if he could do it freeing no slaves, he would. If he could do it freeing some of the slaves, he would. If he could do it by freeing all the slaves, he would. The slaves were a pawn and they knew it at the time…they saw it pretty much as a white man’s war against other white men…

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 15th, 2009
4:36 pm

The Bible doesn’t say that “money is the root of all evil,” but that “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil…”

Wish I had a dollar for every time my Grandma told me that.

Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, and most of the Indian Territory didn’t seceed from the Union until Fort Sumter. They stayed with the Union until they felt they were being invaded.

TW

December 15th, 2009
4:42 pm

Were there any truth to the myth that the media leans left, the Republican Party would not exist.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:43 pm

Hillbilly

John Ross went to Washington begging audience with Lincoln…he refused to see him…Ross returned to the Cherokee nation and acknowledged that the deal Boudinot was getting from Richmond was the better and agreed not to use his influence to impede Boudinot’s efforts. The Richmond government recognized nine of the Indian nations as equal states, accrediting their diplomats as those of allied, sovereign nations.

LA

December 15th, 2009
4:43 pm

But but but…..Gone with the wind is RACIST!!!!!!!!!!

LOLOL

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
4:43 pm

josef, there is no “law” for Miranda rights either. What we do have though is the 5th ammendment that states that no one can be forced to incriminate themselves.

josef: The slaves were a pawn and they knew it at the time…they saw it pretty much as a white man’s war against other white men…

They saw it as FREEDOM — read the writings of Fredrick Douglas, Sojourner Truth and a few others. They saw the war as a chance for FREEDOM from slavery.

josef: DDR–
But, again, there is no “law” prohibiting secession…and let’s not forget that Plessy v Ferguson and Williams v Mississippi lent to mockery the 14th and 15th Amendments and it would be 1954 before that was rectified…

Those cases were not showcases for the 14th and 15th Ammendments. Plessy’s case hinged on the point of segregation being cruel and unusual punishment, (8th Ammend); and the other I have to look up to reaquiant myself with the facts of the case.

josef: But, tell me, is your house a stop on today’s underground railroad?

Of course. I even, not now though, have worked in Women’s shelters and helped women who were hiding from abusive relationships.

LA

December 15th, 2009
4:45 pm

Jay, this is the second of third time in the past week where a blog has turned in to a shouting match about race.

LA

December 15th, 2009
4:45 pm

I hate to break the news to everyone but the Civil War was not about slavery.

It was about northern aggression.

@@

December 15th, 2009
4:45 pm

Such a carpetbagger, jay.

Out of “the blue” comes GWTW?

LA

December 15th, 2009
4:46 pm

Oh, also, if people want to point the fingers at old white men in regards to slavery, you guys may want to also point the finger at the warlords in Africa who sold their own people into slavery.

Hillbilly Deluxe

December 15th, 2009
4:46 pm

Josef

And I’m sure you’re aware that several years after The War, the great humanitarian W T Sherman uttered the immortal phrase, “The only good Indian is a dead Indian” and the great Union Cavalry hero Phil Sheridan explained the slaughter of whole villages by saying, “Nits grow into lice”.

josef nix

December 15th, 2009
4:47 pm

DDR–
I didn’t ask if you worked with abused women, I asked do you shelter illegal aliens fleeing the patrollers of today?

Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth were up North, not down on the ole plantation…BIG difference…

LA

December 15th, 2009
4:49 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe, no this is what the Bible says: 1 Tim 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Says all KINDS.

DebbieDoRight

December 15th, 2009
4:50 pm

la: Oh, also, if people want to point the fingers at old white men in regards to slavery, you guys may want to also point the finger at the warlords in Africa who sold their own people into slavery.

Slavery in Africa was on the same par as being a slave of the Roman empire. Slaves of some tribes in Africa were educated (better to help their masters), allowed to own land and goods, and their children were not automatically born into slavery just because their parents were slaves. Totally different from slavery in America.