Atlanta and the hysterics of global warming
It was unseasonably, strangely warm yesterday, hitting a reported high of 68 (69 at the airport) in the middle of December. That’s 12 degrees warmer than the average Atlanta high for Dec. 9 of 56 degrees.
Now, if I were to adopt the debating technique of certain global-warming skeptics, I might seize upon yesterday’s freakish heat as proof that the scientists are right and that global warming is real. Just as deniers use an odd snowstorm in Houston to scoff at claims that the planet is getting hotter, I could do the same:
“Look how warm it was yesterday! Almost 70 in mid-December! How can you claim that global warming isn’t real?”
But of course, that would be wrong. It would be foolish. One day’s temperature is a matter of weather, not climate. One odd day, month, season, year or even a series of years tell us little about long-term climate trends. In addition, data from Atlanta or any other single monitoring station don’t tell us anything about trends globally.
As I was perusing the December record-temperature data at weather.com, though, I noticed something unusual.
The oldest record I could find from Atlanta goes back to 1880, giving us a temperature database of at least 129 years. Logically, daily record-high temperatures ought to be distributed fairly equally over that time period. Yet they’re not.
Of the 31 daily record highs in December, 24 have been set in the last 25 years, far more than logic suggests. Let me put that another way: Seven record daily highs for Atlanta were set in the first 104 years of record-keeping; 24 record highs have been set in the last 25 years. (Looking at the other end of the gauge, only 3 of 31 daily December lows have been set in the past quarter century, which is about what you’d expect in a normal distribution.)
Startled, I looked at January records. Nine of the 31 record highs that month have been set in the last 25 years. That’s a lot fewer than in December, but statistically, it’s also two or three times more than should be the case if all else were equal.
Now, even that does not constitute proof of global warming. At most, you can say that it is consistent with climate change — climatologists do warn that warming would be most noticeable in winter months. But even that claim might be stretching things too far.
As climate researchers would tell you, a lot of that apparent warming might be explained by the growing urbanization of Atlanta. The city has become a heat island of concrete and asphalt, which makes it complicated to compare today’s temperature records with those of 100 years ago. So researchers use various “tricks” to correct for that change — they have agreed-upon methods to account for the effect of heat islands, and they adjust the data accordingly.
In other words, it is not a simple matter. And given the complexity of the science, there would certainly be an opportunity for researchers to give the data a slight little finagle here, a tiny bit of exaggeration there, and — voila!! — global warming!
That’s roughly the version of reality that many global-warming skeptics are now asking their supporters to accept. Having largely lost the argument about a scientific consensus on the issue — the consensus is too solid to dismiss any longer — they now argue that the consensus itself is a fraud.
“At worst its junk science and it’s part of a massive international scientific fraud,” as U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., claims. Sensenbrenner is former chairman of both the House Science Committee and the House Judiciary Committee, and is now the ranking Republican member on the House Select Committee for Energy Independence and Global Warming.
Of course, the narrative pushed by Sensenbrenner and others would require you to believe that smart people all over the world — most of whom who have wanted to be scientists all their lives and have worked hard to achieve that goal — have somehow gotten together to collude in this giant fraud. Depending on the day and the skeptic/theorist, the researchers were motivated to join that conspiracy by a lust for government research grants — although private industry would pay more for the opposite conclusion — or by some secret desire to promote socialism or even one-world government.
Since the late ’70s, as the story goes, scientists in the United States, Britain, Japan, Canada, France, Korea and many other nations have been perpetrating this silent fraud, and as young scientists emerged from universities they too have been secretly initiated into the priesthood. It’s a story right out of the books of Dan Brown, requiring the skills of a Robert Langdon to unravel.
Either that, or global warming is real.
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691 comments Add your comment
Citizen of the World
December 10th, 2009
9:53 am
Yes, USinUK @9:38, and that’s another thing. Global warming nay-sayers and no-wayers like to talk about how the climate has always warmed and cooled. This is true, but when it happened slowly, species had time to migrate and/or adapt. When it happened quickly, there were mass extinctions. Now it might seem that the current warming is happening slowly, but 1) it’s actually happening fairly quickly in the grand scheme of things so animals may not have time to adapt and 2) there are manmade obstacles to migration now (vast sprawling cities and big highways and roads) that weren’t there during the last major climate change.
We need to get busy and move away from CO2 fossil fuels. The know-how is there; we just need the individual and political will to make changes. Will it cost us? Yes. But inaction will cost us — and our children and grandchildren — much, much more. I’m thinking about making a picture of myself next to my Prius and my clothes line and my vegetarian meal so I can show it to my grandchild and say, see, I tried!
Another thing is, we’re not far from reaching peak oil. When that day comes, we will be much better off if we’ve prepared by switching to alternative fuels and have conservation measures in place.
And as for coal, if we continue to burn more of it, we’ll have air like China’s and water that’s unfit for anything.
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
9:54 am
I submit there is no global warming……………but if for some reason it is determined that any heating has occurred it is the epitome of arrogance to think that we have anything to do with it……..if we in fact came from monkeys, fish and dinosaurs (of which I am highly suspect) and the earth has existed for millions of years then we are a grain of sand in time and my freaking GMC Yukon XL and twin engine boat ARE NOT CAUSING ANYTHING…..plants use C02 to breathe!!!! It just makes me sigh…..oh crap there goes some more CO2……
theboogins
December 10th, 2009
9:55 am
The lack of logic is astounding. You lambast the right for trumpeting the Houston snowfall, yet your “scientific” conclusion is drawn on a mere 120 years of data? And for this we are supposed to radically adjust our lifestyle? Bonehead.
No secret that the “green” movement is the modern day home of commies and socialists. That and the Obie admin.
JB
ATLshirt
December 10th, 2009
9:55 am
Concrete absorbs heat, so does asphalt, also our roofing shingles, are all made to absorb heat…If we could find a way to improve those elements, we would see a dramatic decrease in temperatures..
Bosch
December 10th, 2009
9:55 am
Citizens,
“and water that’s unfit for anything.”
um, I think we’re already there on that one -would YOU eat a fish out of the Chattahoochee? Not me.
Ben
December 10th, 2009
9:56 am
USinUK: Most of them share data sets and adjustments, they are no completely independent groups as you claim. And NASA, for instance, is also refusing to release their raw data (unlike CRU, they at least aren’t saying they threw it away).
Listed in this Wikipedia article are several climatologists who are skeptical (again, even I am not syaing the isn’t warming going on, just the extent of it, the potential results, and how much of it is man-made or natural, what sort of action we should take [who says it will be a bad thing in the long term, say one thousand years from now]):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
Or here (don’t know mnuch about this guy, the article says many call him the father of climatology):
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/father-of-climatology-calls-manmade-global-warming-absurd/
Kamchak
December 10th, 2009
9:57 am
If you read Isaac Newton’s emails you wouldn’t believe in gravity either.
Mrs. Godzilla
December 10th, 2009
9:58 am
vince
seen Apollo 13?
co2 kills
Bosch
December 10th, 2009
9:58 am
Ben,
And did you actually look at their job titles? Go back and look, that might clue you in on why they think that. How many are climate experts?
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:02 am
Okay, we’ve some newbies here. Time to pull out one of my favorite (because for me it was an opinion-changer) links. Some have seen it before. Not many have listened or watched it. One would think people who are so ’sure’ they have The Truth wouldn’t mind listening. Anywho, it’s a university address by David G. Long, PhD, Director, BYU Center for Remote Sensing; Professor, Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering; Head, Microwave Earth Remote Sensing (MERS) Laboratory.
He’s not a climatologist. I think. But he looks at the facts of his area of expertise and lays out a pretty compelling case.
So I’d ask folks to give it a listen. If you think the issue’s settled either way or not. Heck, it may just mean a successful day because you learned something new. And yes, the beginning is dry. Skip ahead if you want. But it’s interesting to watch how he builds to a conclusion.
Microwaves, Icebergs and Global Warming
http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=2994
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:03 am
Ben –
“Most of them share data sets and adjustments, they are no completely independent groups as you claim”
“independent” as in … self-funding? of course not – most work with a government and/or university. so you KNOW they gotta be lyin’.
oy.
and no one says that there aren’t skeptics – of course there are. and, despite your hystrionics, they WERE able to present their papers.
it all comes down to one thing – which is worse: thinking that climate change is real and making appropriate changes and being wrong or thinking that it’s NOT real, NOT making any changes and being wrong.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:03 am
Mrs. Godzilla, you want to apologize now?
Del
December 10th, 2009
10:04 am
This issue is all about global politics. The majority of Americans question the validity of this theory and with valid reason. That doesn’t make the majority deniers it makes them question what has become another cause for the left in this country and around the world. Jay, your commentary makes it sound as though there’s unanimity within the scientific community. There isn’t unanimity among scientists as many have doubts about man created global warming. This issue needs further objective study not knee jerk conclusions and remedies that could be far more dangerous for this country and the world.
Taxpayer
December 10th, 2009
10:04 am
129 years of record keeping vs total earth existence is nothing. Its insignificant at best. Its meaningless. Kinda like stating…oh…the “average” black person has one “caucasian” cell in their body hence, and God forbid, they are gonna turn white.
Because in the beginning, when the earth was poofed into perfection, with full grown elephants appearing over the course of six days and commencing right off the bat with their pooping in their, and everyone else’s, drinking water (some things never change), and dinosaurs, roaming just outside the garden of earthly delights, being chased by unsaved heathens with visions of baby-back ribs dancing in their heads… Ahhh yes, the good old days. The days when thermometers had no value because everyone knew that ice measured cold and boiling water proved that fire was hot so one just had to try to avoid the extremes in order to survive. Indeed. Those were the days. The days of lush forests filled with apple trees and fig leaves and Adam and Eve. Meanwhile, back on board the starship Enterprise, Kirk, Spock and McCoy speculate on what the superhuman, genetically modified seed that they have planted this fine day might yield in the future. Oooh look. It’s de plane, boss. It’s de plane.
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:04 am
Not all are, but several are. I didn’t say everyone on that list was, I said “Listed in this Wikipedia article are several climatologists who are skeptical.” Where did I say they are all climatologists?
Sorry, no consensus among climatologists exists, there are plenty who disagree with many of the major points being pushed on us. But go ahead and ignore that.
"refero quattuor"
December 10th, 2009
10:05 am
Ecclesiastes 3:8 (New International Version)
“a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.”
Shouldn’t there be a “Nobel War Prize” ??
jconservative
December 10th, 2009
10:05 am
Global warming is either a fact or not a fact. Global warming is either assisted by human efforts or not assisted by human efforts.
Global warming can be reduced by human efforts or it cannot be reduced by human efforts.
None of us old geezers (I am in my 68th year) will live long enough to know the answer. And probably few of you other folks will live long enough to know the answer.
So here is what we will do. I have made my decision so do not argue!
We will talk about it. And then we will talk about it some more.
We may even get around to debating the issue, but I doubt it. It is impossible to have a debate with 30 second bites and that is the only way we talk about issues today.
So to the 4 years olds I have this message – sh** happens.
Mrs. Godzilla
December 10th, 2009
10:06 am
LA
Be patient the time for our meeting has not yet come.
Taxpayer
December 10th, 2009
10:07 am
The majority of Americans question the validity of this theory and with valid reason.
Which “theory” would that be and what “valid” reason do you refer to.
Just Peachy
December 10th, 2009
10:08 am
Outhouse Goatsh** said: If this is correct then she is only second to the kenyan.
Wow since when does having a Harvard degree make you a non-intellectual? Dude that was just a stupid comment. If you disagree with what I said about the lovely Falin Palin back it up with facts. She is the one that went to 5 colleges in 4 years. She left Hawaii b/c there were too many Asians, per her father. If you think she an intellectual policatician I know for a fact you voted for the Bush twice.
Dumb ass people like Outhouse should not be able to vote or make babies.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:08 am
Mrs. Godzilla, it’s rather easy to apologize. Just say “I am sorry for accusing you of being someone else.”
Bosch
December 10th, 2009
10:08 am
Ben,
And feel free to deny those who disagree with your conclusions as well – which I think would be more than what’s on your list.
Out for a bit.
AmVet
December 10th, 2009
10:08 am
Citizen of the World, National Geographic – yes that start up, never been correct about a thing, rag of a magazine – talked about this at length.
These previous changes have taken millenia to manifest themselves. NOT 25 years.
I also contend that a fairly large proportion of the No Way crowd are bible thumpers who are more inclined to visit this place than read anything about science…
http://creationmuseum.org/
Outhouse Go-Kart
December 10th, 2009
10:09 am
Seems everyone is padding their nest so to speak. Theft by faking evidence to keep ones job is still theft. With numbers its possible to “gear” them to ones wanted outcome.
Its a global climate farce founded by these EU dunderheads, third world idiots and the likes of the goron.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:09 am
Only 26% of the people in this country believe that Barack Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:09 am
USinUK- They are not independent of EACH OTHER. They share data, they take the same data sets and come to similar conclusions. Those data sets are shown to be fudged, missing, invalid, and otherwise not quite trustworthy.
If you are so confident you are right, what is so wrong with collecting data again and redoing the science? It will only take a couple of years, and that delay won’t make much of a difference either way. And if the scientific process is actually followed, I for one won’t deny the conclusions. But if you’re going to tell me to remake society based on conclusions from raw data that cannot be produced and shown to anyone, I’m going to tell you to shove it.
Mrs. Godzilla
December 10th, 2009
10:11 am
LA
2:02 PM
Good things are worth waiting for.
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2009
10:11 am
“Shouldn’t there be a “Nobel War Prize” ??”
How do you think Alfred Nobel made all his money?
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:11 am
godzilla…….so does water if you breath it instead of oxygen….please don’t make me use the Moron word…………………………..oops
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:11 am
AmVet, I can tell that you don’t like Christians and the idea of creationism. Fair enough. I understand your point, but you or I don’t see politicians trying to scare people and wanting to tax them in the name of Christianity. Creationism is not taught in schools. Evolution is.
Why not look at both sides and then come to a conclusion?
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:12 am
Mrs. Godzilla, you’re not going to show up at my house and hurt me are you?
mikeII
December 10th, 2009
10:12 am
Since I despise cold weather, I kinda dig this global warming deal!
Mrs. Godzilla
December 10th, 2009
10:12 am
vince
i see you are easily….made?
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:13 am
Doggone/GA, yeah, Nobel invented dynamite, right? I can’t remember the entire story but it had to do with things blowing up.
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:13 am
Bosch: My point was that there is NO consensus about any of this from climatologists, and I proved that quite well. Nice strawman argument, but totally irrelevant to what I said. I never denied there are scientists who worship at the altar of global warming. Nay, it was you who denied that there are any climatologists who disagree. I proved you wrong.
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2009
10:14 am
” It will only take a couple of years ”
Really? You can collect over 100 years of new data in just a couple of years? You’re GOOD…you really ARE
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:14 am
“what is so wrong with collecting data again and redoing the science?”
wow. you have a Way-Back machine that can “recollect” the data???
and, no, they don’t ALL share ALL the same data from the same collection.
nice try, though.
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:16 am
oh no that slipped out again……
Willie
December 10th, 2009
10:17 am
Progressive liberal liars or the PLL. OK the climate is the “now” WMD’s!! We discovered from emails written about the tainting of data to make the globe warmer. Unless you are a PLL and or have a personal agenda, you then reason all findings are tainted. Just like the PLL did about the WMD’s.
I want to ask the PLL is who will pay for all this change. US workers thats who. You do not care because your agenda is more important. The earth goes through cycles of cooling and warming–remember the little ice age. Oh may that is one of the stats the infamous PLL scientists left out of the chart.
Could the changing of the magnetic polls have some impact. That happens about every 25k yrs and is due in 2012.
EPA threatened congress with blackmail, EPA has told congress that if they do not pass cap and trade now that they will impose sanctions that will destroy the economy.
Whoooaaa hoss! The PLL is lashing out and threatening the American people. I call that treason!
Outhouse Go-Kart
December 10th, 2009
10:17 am
“Only 26% of the people in this country believe that Barack Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.”
That many eh? I would guess the number to be at around say 11% and thats a liberal figure.
Then again this 26% number probably will coincide with future approval ratings for the kenyan.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:17 am
USinUK, I watched a special with Jack Horner on CBS a few Sundays ago. He’s THE leading Paleontologist in the world. Anyway, he and another Paleontologist discovered LIVING tissue inside a T-Rex bone. They could not believe their eyes and he says it proves that scientists have no idea about how old the Earth is or how old dinosaurs really are.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22483234/CBS-News-Paleontologist-Jack-Horner-to-appear-on-60-Minutes
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:17 am
Actually Doggone, we can. The CRU folks, in defending themselves because they can’t produce their raw data that they based all their conclusions on, said, “It’s not gone, it still exists at the 5,000 temperature stations all around the world that it was originally collected from.” So recollect it and start over. NASA used many of those same stations, and had a lot of the same raw data. NASA won’t produce it and is avoiding complying with FOIA requests.
So the CRU themsevles, the scientists who you are defending, disagree with you. They themselves claim the data can be recollected. So do it!
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
December 10th, 2009
10:18 am
Even the “scientists” on the left have admitted that for the last decade, global temperatures have flatlined. But yet, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have increased during that same time period. Shouldn’t temps be going up, according to the narrative that is being hysterically portrayed by the left?
Temperatures have risen and they have fallen all throughout recorded history. Is this a conspiracy too, bookman?
But yet the thumbsuckers always cling to one year, 1998, and now add to that, the last 25 years of extremes from one city out of the whole world.
A gigantic cold wave sweeping from the north to the south always compresses the milder climate before it, you can tell how it will be really cold by the higher temps proceeding the cold wave. But someone claiming to have all the answers would know that, wouldn’t they?
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:18 am
“I call that treason!”
wow. a conservo-nut calling a liberal “treasonous”. stop the presses. I’m (yawn) shocked.
TGT
December 10th, 2009
10:19 am
Speaking of temperature tricks…
Del
December 10th, 2009
10:19 am
“Which theory and what valid reason”
Isn’t this blog discussing the theory of man created global warming? The valid reason? Because not everyone in the scientific community agrees and because the THEORY has taken on a political life, which causes many to become questioners and not politically driven believers.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:19 am
Back to the the topic at hand.
This should get really good.
Al Gore rebuts Palin’s climate change claims
Former Alaska governor says Obama should boycott Copenhagen summit
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34325366/ns/politics/
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:19 am
Haha, you’re willing to spend trillions to fight off global warming, but not a few million to recollect the raw data that no one has in collected form, but is still readily available at the original recording stations all over the world, just to make sure we’re right before we spend trillions?
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:20 am
i want all my freinds and family to suffer in a burning inferno…I want my grandchild to drink dirty water and to breath polluted air while the glaciers melt and the oceans rise up around her legs! That is the only alternative to the complete and utter fraud being foist upon us by ALGORE and the rest of the global warmists!!!!!………………………………………………….oh crap that was accidentilly posted here instead of RIGHTWINGFANSOFGLOBALDESCTRUCTION.COM!!!!!
Redact-STAT!
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:21 am
Jay, I found this article to be interesting. Although there absolutely NOTHING we can do about this.
Copenhagen climate summit: global warming ’caused by sun’s radiation’
Global warming is caused by radiation from the sun, according to a leading scientist speaking out at an alternative “sceptics’ conference” in Copenhagen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6762640/Copenhagen-climate-summit-global-warming-caused-by-suns-radiation.html
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2009
10:22 am
“So recollect it and start over”
You mean recollate it, not recollect it. And how do you know they aren’t already doing that?
DAVID
December 10th, 2009
10:23 am
GLOBAL WARMING is a HOAX…..to suppress Capitalism….& Industry…….you morons.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:24 am
Jay, I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE for the president to confront this. LOL…The Chicoms get it.
Population control called key to deal
COPENHAGEN: Population and climate change are intertwined but the population issue has remained a blind spot when countries discuss ways to mitigate climate change and slow down global warming, according to Zhao Baige, vice-minister of National Population and Family Planning Commission of China (NPFPC) .
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/10/content_9151129.htm
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:26 am
“Population control called key to deal”
criminey, if we could just get the Duggars to put a cork in it, that would be half the battle, right there.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:26 am
Climategate: Gore falsifies the record
Al Gore has studied the Climategate emails with his typically rigorous eye and dismissed them as mere piffle:
Q: How damaging to your argument was the disclosure of e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University?
A: To paraphrase Shakespeare, it’s sound and fury signifying nothing. I haven’t read all the e-mails, but the most recent one is more than 10 years old. These private exchanges between these scientists do not in any way cause any question about the scientific consensus.
And in case you think that was a mere slip of the tongue:
Q: There is a sense in these e-mails, though, that data was hidden and hoarded, which is the opposite of the case you make [in your book] about having an open and fair debate.
A: I think it’s been taken wildly out of context. The discussion you’re referring to was about two papers that two of these scientists felt shouldn’t be accepted as part of the IPCC report. Both of them, in fact, were included, referenced, and discussed. So an e-mail exchange more than 10 years ago including somebody’s opinion that a particular study isn’t any good is one thing, but the fact that the study ended up being included and discussed anyway is a more powerful comment on what the result of the scientific process really is.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/climategate_gore_falsifies_the_record
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:26 am
All the recycled barbs – is anyone listening to the presentation from 10:02?
If there are holes in his reasoning I’d sure like to hear it. I gather we have plenty of experts represented here so I’m counting on you.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:26 am
USinUK, you should read that Jack Horner CBS document. It’s very very……awesome.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:28 am
Paul, facts mean NOTHING to libs. NOTHING.
Taxpayer
December 10th, 2009
10:28 am
To reach “consensus” or not to reach “consensus”, that is not a question to ponder with chin firmly planted on hand. Just read a little instead. Here, for example.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 10th, 2009
10:28 am
Funny, when I consider global warming hysterics, the first name that comes to mind is AlGore.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 10th, 2009
10:29 am
I’m all for doing everything we can to accelerate global warming, to make this a cozier world.
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:30 am
LA – I found a link of his interview with Leslie Stahl – that doc???
Outhouse Go-Kart
December 10th, 2009
10:30 am
You libs and your scientific fax are laughable at best!
Outhouse Go-Kart
December 10th, 2009
10:31 am
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:20 am
Especially you!
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:32 am
Ragnar Danneskjöld, well it was the OWL who prophesied about it.
TGT
December 10th, 2009
10:32 am
Also, a very intended consequence of AGW: Population Control.
Never mind that you could fit the entire population of the world (~6.8 billion) into the state of Texas (about 5 per average size U.S. home on about 1/8th of an acre).
AmVet
December 10th, 2009
10:33 am
OK, LA, though I’ve already tired of your passive aggressive and sometimes trollish shtick, it is nonetheless in toto, a minor annoyance. As it does not generally affect me.
BUT let me make this next point crystal clear.
YOU DO NOT get to speak for me.
YOU DO NOT get to put words in my mouth.
NOT NOW. NOT EVER.
YOU DO NOT get to say I don’t like Christians – or anything or anyone else for that matter – as though it is a matter of fact. As though you are prescient. As though you know more than you obviously do.
You are presumptuous fool and proving it in a public forum is YOUR choice, but know I do not suffer fools gladly and as a rule will not engage them here…
N-GA
December 10th, 2009
10:33 am
Paul,
I usually stay away from this topic. People use terms like Global Warming and Climate Change interchangeably. Few really want to discuss the impact man has on our climate/environment.
The debate was much simpler when talking about pollution. The stuff coming out of factory smokestacks and vehicle tailpipes left little room for debate. The chemical sludge being dumped into rivers and oceans was real. No argument there. The landfills full of styrofoam, plastic bags and TV’s are still being used to store our garbage for the next thousanf years.
The things we’ve had to do to mitigate pollution have had a price. Recycling isn’t entirely free. Catalytic converters cost money as do smokestack filters. Proper disposal of chemical waste adds cost to our products (until they are made in China where there is utter disregard for controls). It’s kinda funny that the right wing is in lockstep agreement with the Chinese manufacturers.
All that to say that I cannot imagine any thinking person disagreeing that the CO2 and other contaminants we continue to spew into the atmosphere are harmful and likely have an impact on our climate. So it still boils down to a binary issue. If we do what the “liberals” want and implement policies that negate/eliminate these pollutants, then the worst that can happen is our planet is much cleaner, even if these liberals are wrong about man-made global warming. If on the other hand we do what the “conservatives” want and continue releasing huge amounts of pollutants into the atmosphere, the worst that can happen is…..extinction.
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:33 am
LA
Well, then I’d ask you to listen. May pick up some new facts for your arsenal or see things a bit differently.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:33 am
USinUK, I think so. It’s the document that is highlighted in yellow. And trust me, Jack Horner ain;t not right winger.
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:33 am
Hockeystick………Hockypuck!
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/revenge_of_the_computer_nerds_1.html
The emails shows intent and the date collection and evaluation show gross errors……….and I thought I could trust the guys in the white coats….damnit!
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2009
10:35 am
“(about 5 per average size U.S. home on about 1/8th of an acre).”
Wrong factoring. You have to factor in how much land it takes to SUPPORT those 5 people, not just how much land they can comfortably occupy.
Outhouse Go-Kart
December 10th, 2009
10:36 am
LOL!
As relates to Global Warming, Al Goron is one of the biggest contributors. Everytime he opens his hole nothing but flatulence spews forth.
Call it Like It Is
December 10th, 2009
10:36 am
Global Warming the biggest HOAX ever only for Al Gore to contiune to profit from!
Wake up America, we need jobs, not BS!
Enough Said!!!!!!
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:37 am
AmVet,
1: Not speaking for you. I’m not a democrat.
2: I’ve read back through some of your posts about “talibaptists etc” and came to the conclusion that you do not like Christians. Again, I am free to make my own assessments of anyone. You don’t say what I am allowed to do and what I am not allowed to do.
3: You can not order me around.
4: You’ve managed to insult me twice in the last two days.
5: I did not put words in your mouth. Do you type through your mouth?
You wrote: You are presumptuous fool and proving it in a public forum is YOUR choice, but know I do not suffer fools gladly and as a rule will not engage them here…
Ok AmVet, I asked Jay about the name calling on these blogs and he assured me that it is not allowed.
I will give you the same respect that you give me. But right now you’ve managed to call me a troll and a fool.
You need to seriously show some maturity in your rants!
Ben
December 10th, 2009
10:38 am
N-GA- I disagree. The worst thing that can happen if we follow your “conservative” option (I put that in quotes, because I don’t think you really understand conservatives or what they think), is that we will save trillions of dollars and develop technology to fix things far before it destroys humanity. The worst thing that can happen if we follow the “liberal” position (I put liberal in quotes, because I know I don’t understand liberals or what they think, or why they think such silly things, and because I don’t think this is totally partisan, liberals versus conservatives) is that we waste tons of money, stifle innovation, don’t actually help anything, and never develop the technology we need to really fix things because politicians are making us live like it’s 1850.
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:38 am
Paul, yeah, I went back and read through your 10:02 post.
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:39 am
LA – “It’s the document that is highlighted in yellow” then this isn’t it – it’s him talking about dinosaurs … got a link?
vince neil
December 10th, 2009
10:40 am
i just walked my dog and boy is it cold….so I started up my suburban, pickup truck, ,race car, my airplane and both boats…how long till it gets warmer???
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:41 am
N-GA
I like that line of reasoning.
Is pollution good for the earth? Neutral? Bad?
Likely bad in large quantities.
Does pollution affect air?
Sure
Does pollution affect water?
Sure
Does pollution affect soil?
Sure
Does pollution affect the health of plants, animals and humans?
Sure
Does pollution affect climate?
What?!!? Are you nuts? It affects, people, plants, animals, soil, water, air… but climate? You gotta be kidding me!!!
Kinda breaks down, doesn’t it?
Bill
December 10th, 2009
10:41 am
Jay,
Do yourself a favor and visit Fox News for some real NEWS instead of the White House-approved propaganda this rag is pushing.
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:41 am
“we waste tons of money, stifle innovation, don’t actually help anything, and never develop the technology we need to really fix things because politicians are making us live like it’s 1850″
what a load of bollocks –
actually, what they’re doing is ENCOURAGING innovation – in fact, they’re putting money behind it and asking people to find newer, efficient, less-damaging ways of living our lives. the last thing they want to do is go back to the coal fires and pollutants of 1850.
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:42 am
LA 10:38
I meant, listen to the talk in the link?
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:45 am
Paul, my bad, I will go back and look AND listen.
RAMBLE ON!!!
December 10th, 2009
10:45 am
hide the decline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk
sam
December 10th, 2009
10:46 am
i think anyone who posts using their e-mail address should get bombarded with evidence of global warming, evolution, and advances in medical knowledge….
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:46 am
AmVet wrote: OK, LA, though I’ve already tired of your passive aggressive and sometimes trollish shtick, it is nonetheless in toto, a minor annoyance. As it does not generally affect me.
I would rather be passive aggressive than blow my top all over a public forum.
It’s called tact AmVet. Get some. Please.
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:47 am
Bill
“Do yourself a favor and visit Fox News for some real NEWS instead of the White House-approved propaganda this rag is pushing.”
Why? He’ll just hear the commentators like Bill O Reilly say people and their activities do have an impact, the degree is open to discussion, but pollution is bad, regardless of climate change we should act aggressively to clean it up, if it has a good effect on climate change, that’s an added benefit.
electrician
December 10th, 2009
10:47 am
its high time to out one of the unknown villians of climate change in the south, barbeque..thats right, barbeque, millions of methane spewing pigs slow roasted over hundreds of tons of old growth hickory every year,pouring co2 into the air and clogging the arteries of southerners everywhere..the horror….the horror.
B.L.
December 10th, 2009
10:48 am
Climategate-The travails of a global warming hobbyist.
Now it can probably be successfully argued that a guy with a laptop searching the internet on Saturday afternoons and Sunday mornings isn’t really engaged in research, so I’ll call it research by proxy. The people who actually do the research tend to have their papers published online, for people like me to look at. And more than likely there will at least be references to where you can find the data if you’re so inclined. Not so with the whole global warming thing. It was glasnost lite — you simply trust, with no attached verification.
Then 2009 rolled around, and I was no closer to a definitive answer in my own mind about the anthropogenic global warming exercise than when I started. I remembered hearing on the news that the average daytime temperature of Mars was rising. Fine. I set off in search of information on the sun’s radiance and found a whole complete new can of worms to deal with. The sun guys had gobs and gobs of published data showing a correlation between sunspots and atmospheric temperatures on planet Earth.
Now the truly odd thing was they seemed for the most part to agree with each other concerning the relationship of spots to temperature. Where they seemed to differ was the causes of the spots and how to accurately forecast the coming ones. Their charts for the last one hundred years all pretty much agreed with each other. Counterintuitively — the more spots the higher the temperature, the fewer spots the lower the temps. Nowhere did I find sites voicing alternate views on sunspots.
As for this disenfranchised independent voter, I’m thinking about taking up bowling and duck hunting. This climate researcher gig isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-the-travails-of-a-global-warming-hobbyist/
Paul
December 10th, 2009
10:49 am
LA
Thanks. I’d read and listened a lot over the years. I have to say, that talk was one of the most compelling I’d listened to. Maybe it was because it was a scholar with no axe to grind. It was like ‘we were doing our normal thing, then we found this, wasn’t part of our scope, but… wow…”
DAVID
December 10th, 2009
10:50 am
G.W. is a liberal HOAX…..you idiots……A HOAX.
Bosch
December 10th, 2009
10:51 am
Paul,
I didn’t watch the link as I’ve had to step away from the blog to work on numbers again. Which, in turn, is causing me to want to throw myself out the window – which, would be very harmful to my health, worse than pollution. And if I did throw myself out the window, I would be using my body to pollute the area below the window – so I think I’ll refrain from doing that.
and your 10:41
That’s kind of how I see things too.
N-GA@ 10:33,
Amen (with a polite ballet clap added in for good measure).
Joan
December 10th, 2009
10:51 am
Nobody ever said Obama doesn’t give a good speech. Nobody ever said he doesn’t lie through his teeth either. Obama is a disaster.
sam
December 10th, 2009
10:52 am
Fox News real NEWS….hhaaaaaa!!HHaaaa!!!HHaaaaaa!!HHAAAA!!!
USinUK
December 10th, 2009
10:52 am
George Washington is a liberal hoax?
Great White is a liberal hoax?
Gee Whiz?
Grant’s War?
Grape Wine?
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:52 am
If Obama gets a Nobel Prize, then so should George Bush, Bill Clinton AND Ronald Reagan.
Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091210/D9CGG6680.html
LA
December 10th, 2009
10:53 am
sam, what I find interesting is that a lot of libs consider John Stewart real news. THAT is funny.
getalife
December 10th, 2009
10:53 am
‘The earth is round”.
“No, it is flat”
The argument never ends.
Citizen of the World
December 10th, 2009
10:55 am
You go, Paul @10:41!