Atlanta and the hysterics of global warming

It was unseasonably, strangely warm yesterday, hitting a reported high of 68 (69 at the airport) in the middle of December. That’s 12 degrees warmer than the average Atlanta high for Dec. 9 of 56 degrees.

Now, if I were to adopt the debating technique of certain global-warming skeptics, I might seize upon yesterday’s freakish heat as proof that the scientists are right and that global warming is real. Just as deniers use an odd snowstorm in Houston to scoff at claims that the planet is getting hotter, I could do the same:

“Look how warm it was yesterday! Almost 70 in mid-December! How can you claim that global warming isn’t real?”

But of course, that would be wrong. It would be foolish. One day’s temperature is a matter of weather, not climate. One odd day, month, season, year or even a series of years tell us little about long-term climate trends. In addition, data from Atlanta or any other single monitoring station don’t tell us anything about trends globally.

As I was perusing the December record-temperature data at weather.com, though, I noticed something unusual.

The oldest record I could find from Atlanta goes back to 1880, giving us a temperature database of at least 129 years. Logically, daily record-high temperatures ought to be distributed fairly equally over that time period. Yet they’re not.

Of the 31 daily record highs in December, 24 have been set in the last 25 years, far more than logic suggests. Let me put that another way: Seven record daily highs for Atlanta were set in the first 104 years of record-keeping; 24 record highs have been set in the last 25 years. (Looking at the other end of the gauge, only 3 of 31 daily December lows have been set in the past quarter century, which is about what you’d expect in a normal distribution.)

Startled, I looked at January records. Nine of the 31 record highs that month have been set in the last 25 years. That’s a lot fewer than in December, but statistically, it’s also two or three times more than should be the case if all else were equal.

Now, even that does not constitute proof of global warming. At most, you can say that it is consistent with climate change — climatologists do warn that warming would be most noticeable in winter months. But even that claim might be stretching things too far.

As climate researchers would tell you, a lot of that apparent warming might be explained by the growing urbanization of Atlanta. The city has become a heat island of concrete and asphalt, which makes it complicated to compare today’s temperature records with those of 100 years ago. So researchers use various “tricks” to correct for that change — they have agreed-upon methods to account for the effect of heat islands, and they adjust the data accordingly.

In other words, it is not a simple matter. And given the complexity of the science, there would certainly be an opportunity for researchers to give the data a slight little finagle here, a tiny bit of exaggeration there, and — voila!! — global warming!

That’s roughly the version of reality that many global-warming skeptics are now asking their supporters to accept. Having largely lost the argument about a scientific consensus on the issue — the consensus is too solid to dismiss any longer — they now argue that the consensus itself is a fraud.

“At worst its junk science and it’s part of a massive international scientific fraud,” as U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., claims. Sensenbrenner is former chairman of both the House Science Committee and the House Judiciary Committee, and is now the ranking Republican member on the House Select Committee for Energy Independence and Global Warming.

Of course, the narrative pushed by Sensenbrenner and others would require you to believe that smart people all over the world — most of whom who have wanted to be scientists all their lives and have worked hard to achieve that goal — have somehow gotten together to collude in this giant fraud. Depending on the day and the skeptic/theorist, the researchers were motivated to join that conspiracy by a lust for government research grants — although private industry would pay more for the opposite conclusion — or by some secret desire to promote socialism or even one-world government.

Since the late ’70s, as the story goes, scientists in the United States, Britain, Japan, Canada, France, Korea and many other nations have been perpetrating this silent fraud, and as young scientists emerged from universities they too have been secretly initiated into the priesthood. It’s a story right out of the books of Dan Brown, requiring the skills of a Robert Langdon to unravel.

Either that, or global warming is real.

691 comments Add your comment

david wayne osedach

December 10th, 2009
8:25 am

Famous last words Jay. Just wait until a giant iceberg crashes into down town Atlanta.

Eric

December 10th, 2009
8:30 am

Convincing article, Jay. Also, as a lifetime Atlantan, I would have to consider the near-absence of ice storms which occurred with regularity through the 1970s. Sure we’ve had occasional freak snow storms in late March (I recall 1983 and 1994 or thereabouts). But the recent pattern in 25 years has been little more than frost on the windshield and budding trees in February.

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
8:30 am

“Just wait until a giant iceberg crashes into down town Atlanta.”

Like the huge iceberg that’s now headed for Australia?

Bud Wiser

December 10th, 2009
8:31 am

What a waste of space.

Why not talk about Obowo accepting a ‘peace’ prize two weeks after accelerating a war?

Why not talk about a convicted felon at a White House state dinner instead of a couple of opportunist gate crashers who were probably setups anyway to take the focus off Creamer, the felon?

Why not talk about something other than what both sides of an issue have scientists in each others corner calling out the other side as ‘junk’ science?

Why not talk about a White House dinner serving Congressmen and guests dessert cookies shaped as ACORN’s symbol, either a grossly or stupidly miscalculated attempt at humor, or just plain old arrogance and in your face ghetto trash talk?

Why not, you ask?

Well, probably because the left these days absolutely hates having any of the current criminal chicanery of the idols they slobber over exposed to the light of day, absolutely hates doing anything that resembles WORK in their profession – let Fox do it, and then laugh, point fingers, but be afraid at the same time – , and hates doing what someone else tells them to do because, they know best how to tell people to loive and conduct their own lives.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
8:31 am

but … but … but … it snowed in Houston!!!

:roll:

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
8:31 am

Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
8:36 am

“Why not talk about a White House dinner serving Congressmen and guests dessert cookies shaped as ACORN’s symbol”

yeah, bud … and they were CHOCOLATE, too … just like mayor nagin’s city!!! you know what THAT means, doncha

you’re right!! rather than talk about something of substance like climate change, we need to talk about a non-issue like desserts at the WH!!! my god, what was Jay thinking … this is the most critical issue of our time!!!

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
8:38 am

Well said Jay.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
8:39 am

Bud

Hatey hate hate with a double scoop of hatefulness and a cherry on top!

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
8:41 am

Nothins says ghetto trash talk to me like Thin Mints and Samoas.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
8:43 am

Mrs G – 8:39 … me, I’ve always wondered why people go to ANY blog (not just Jay’s) and do the “why haven’t you posted about THIS … why don’t you have anything to say about THAT” … it’s like going to dinner at someone’s house and saying “why don’t you serve CAKE instead of pie” – it’s just rude.

if you don’t like what Jay posts, then go start your own blog, Bud

Road Scholar

December 10th, 2009
8:46 am

USinUK-8:36- Bravo! Did Bud Wiser run out of beer?

Just watched President Obama’s Nobel speech. Fantastic! Even the commentators on FOX couldn’t say anything negative, so they signed off. Now it’s time for the trolls…

Jenifer

December 10th, 2009
8:48 am

Oh, pish posh! It’s God holding us extra close.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
8:49 am

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
8:50 am

Jen – 8:48 – :lol:

Road Scholar – BW graces us with his “wisdom” every once in a while … and, boy howdy, is the place grim without him …

Bob

December 10th, 2009
8:50 am

Jay, Global warming is fact, it’s been warming since the last ice age. Of course this means it was warming prior to the combustible engine and factory spewing Co2 but lets not look at past cycles. Scientist have shown it was warmer during the mid evil times than today by checking core samples. Why do we think it would be wrong for the temps to climb back to the levels they were prior to the last cooling period ? You readily admit that we have a recorded history od 129 years, if you are one of those flatearthers that feel the planet is only 5000 years old, maybe tracking temps 129 years is a good indicator. Many feel the earth is millions or billions of years old and looking back 129 years leaves alot of question marks as far as the coldest or warmest day ever. If it were not for warming, North America would still be a glacier.

Jenifer

December 10th, 2009
8:51 am

I watched President Obama’s speech this morning. Wonderful!

RB from Gwinnett

December 10th, 2009
8:51 am

Jay, the part of this you can’t seem to understand or don’t want to because it doesn’t fit your anti advancement mindset is nobody disagrees there was a warming trend between 1975 and 2005. The problem is 1975 was the peak of a cooling trend that had your parents and the other brain deads of the day claiming we’re headed for another ice age. Remember that Jay? I do. It goes up, it goes down. How much of it we are causing is what nobody knows.

The other thing you all don’t seem to understand is nobody disagrees with the need to develop more efficient and less polluting lifestyles, it’s just the degree to which we do it and the means to get there. Somebody please tell me how giving $400 Billion to 3rd world crack jobs fixes any of this. This is more a game of the rest of the world fleecing us than the climate and if you don’t get that now you never will.

Road Scholar

December 10th, 2009
8:52 am

Mrs. G: Thanks for the link. Hope all is well with you this AM!

Peadawg

December 10th, 2009
8:52 am

A President that sends 30,000 troops to war wins a Peace prize…wow!

Brad Steel

December 10th, 2009
8:52 am

Bud Wiser – expert on what everyone else is left is thinking. A true clairvoyant.

Ben

December 10th, 2009
8:58 am

The only consensus is that everyone that agrees with you agrees with you. That’s different than there being an actual scientific consensus. I can find you plenty fo climate experts that disagree. If you looked at the CRU emails, and still think there’s a consensus, you may have a reading comprehension issue. If there was a consensus, then why do much talk about silencing critics?

The emails are certainly no smoking gun, but they do reveal that the science is anything but settled. All I am asking is for us to fully understand the science before we spend trillions to fix a problem that may not exist. Or, even if it does exist, technology is advancing so fast we may spend trillions on this, and then find a really cheap solution in 10 years after wasting all that money hamstringing our economy.

Only fools rush in, and that’s what you are urging. A very, very foolish course.

They should start calling folks like you “deniers.” You are denying the plain truth revealed by those emails- The science is NOT settled, and never was.

Jenifer

December 10th, 2009
9:00 am

I think Bush won an award once…but it was thrown at him and he ducked.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 10th, 2009
9:00 am

Well, me and my buddy Jim Earl and my other buddy Joe Bill and Bud Wiser all know this global warming junk is just a way to try and tax us and keep us from making lots of money. You can’t make money without putting a little poison in the air and some in the ground and water to boot. You get use to the poison after awhile, just like your body keeps you from getting measles again after you’ve had them.

Anyhow, it got so warm this a.m. I had to put on a pair of long johns.

So you libruls can keep putting out this global warming junk and we’ll come up with ways to make you look silly.

I didn’t watch this Obama get his Nobel peace prize. It’s kind of stupid to give somebody a peace prize for ginning up a war. It all proves the Nobel people are just a bunch of libruls. If they were normal people My President would of got a couple Nobel peace prizes for starting two wars instead of just adding 30,000 troops to one that was already started.

Have a good day everybody.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:03 am

oh boy, we get to talk about the SwiftHackers for Cash!

GEORGE CONSERVATIVE

December 10th, 2009
9:03 am

IT’S COLD TODAY WHICH PROVES THERE AIN’T NO GLOBAL WARMING. PEOPLE DIDN’T COME FROM MONKEYS. GOB WROTE THE BIBLE AND I BELIEVE IT.

I DON’T NEED NO FOOL SCIENTIST TO TELL ME THE TEMPERATURE.

Citizen of the World

December 10th, 2009
9:04 am

Isn’t it funny how some laymen, with no empirical evidence of their own to refute climate change, will latch on to the slightest bit of anecdotal evidence or the most obscure of studies to deny its existence, rather than put their trust in the overwhelming, if not universal, consensus that global warming is upon us and manmade greenhouse gases are the cause.

They say they don’t “believe” in global warming. This isn’t something you believe in, like God or Santa Claus, this is something you “learn about” because a vast number of scientists have studied it and passed the knowledge onto us in hopes that we’ll act. That there are some scientists who have concluded global warming is not a threat (paid to come to that conclusion by the oil and coal industries) and some who disagree on exactly how it will play out is something else that we can “learn,” but let’s just quit talking about global warming as if it’s something you can take on faith or not, as you choose. That’s just anti-intellectual.

Bud Wiser

December 10th, 2009
9:05 am

Brad Steel

December 10th, 2009
8:52 am

Bud Wiser – expert on what everyone else is left is thinking. A true clairvoyant.

Very true and accurate.

I refer to it as a waste of space because both sides are so deeply entrenched with their own ‘data’ of junk science and scientists, that no one will ever budge off their very deep stance.

Not that I ever expected any of you shallow brain libtards to figure it out on your own anyway, so thought I’d just explain here.

And, as usual, the miffed and the ignorant hurls their slobbering insults my way, as if that ever makes one whit of difference…. it just shows their own individual stupidity and lack of understanding of anything.

Duh.

Just as vacuous as the Great Obowo.

And the cookie thing? And the reference to ghetto trash talk? Not exactly earth burning material, but just another couple bags of cement illustrating the childish and ignorant appearance theses worms in the White House are not only portraying to America, but the rest of the world as well.

No style, no substance. Obowo is taking the prize and running as well, showing total disregard (or is it just plain old ignorance) of tradition and precedent in Nobel Prize pomp and circumstance.

Maybe he’ll leave the King of Norway a tape of his speeches.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:06 am

“The science is NOT settled, and never was.”

that’s right!! it only LOOKS like the polar ice shelf is melting!! you only THINK that the antarctic ice is diminishing! it only FEELS like there has been a 10-year drought in Australia!! the glacial ice in Bolivia disappearing – it’s just an ILLUSION!!!

Jenifer

December 10th, 2009
9:06 am

“GOB WROTE THE BIBLE AND I BELIEVE IT.”

Me too.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:07 am

Mrs G – “we get to talk about the SwiftHackers for Cash” better yet, we get to talk about people being bitchy as “proof” that climate change doesn’t exist.

oy.

Ben

December 10th, 2009
9:08 am

Citizen of the World: When there are scientists saying different things, we have to choose which to beleive. And you can deny it all you want, call it a “consensus” all you want, but there are many scientists who DO disagree with the findings of the global warming crowd. Some to the extent of it, some to the notion that it’s man-made, and some that we’re warming at all, at leat relative to most of human history. But you ignore and deny all that, it’s like you are wearing blinders.

With all this hysteria, it’s too bad we’re ignoring the much more essential with carbon pollution, the acidification of our oceans.

Finn McCool

December 10th, 2009
9:09 am

Bud, get your own blog, dude. If you aren’t interested in the read, surf over to somewhere else.

Otherwise, do you think other people really want to read your whine about what happens to be the current subjest of the actual bloggers post?

You like to hear yourelf talk, don’t you?

Paul

December 10th, 2009
9:10 am

Jay, your “adjustment” arguments made sense except the data does not support it. For years now, weather station data has had man-made adjustments, but virtually all of it has gone in the direction supporting AGW. Your Atlanta example is spot-on. Growth in Atlanta including heat generation from airports, concrete roads, buildings, etc. would indicate that recorded temps should rise over 150 years in Atlanta and later temps should be adjusted down to account for this, yet the adjustments performed by the likes of CRU, GISS, etc. have been mysteriously adjusted up (and older temps down) to give the appearance of AGW. (To date, both of these organizations have refused to publish how and why they have made these adjustments.) Climategate emails simply support what dissenting scientists have been saying all along – “scientists” at CRU wanted a result and when the real temp data didn’t support it, they chose other data or made adjustments to create the desired result.

Since virtually all AGW reports and supporting studies use data from CRU and GISS directly or indirectly, if this data is fabricated, the overwhelming supporting body of AGW research crumbles.

What is desperately needed right now is an independent audit and study using raw temperatures from the nearly 5000 reporting stations (which CRU mysteriously deleted) but which can be recreated. This report should include the last 150 years of temps that yes, are adjusted with scientific consensus that includes both pro and con AGW advocates, and published for all to see. Until then, the science of AGW is overwhelmingly “unscientific”.

Greetings smellers

December 10th, 2009
9:11 am

Blaming global warming, in part, to cow farts is a silly notion. However true it may be, it hurts the serious tone of the argument.

But I hope the notion isn’t dropped. Major calamity because of cow farts is just too funny.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:12 am

USinUK

The polar ice shelf is actually being funneled into the ice maker at our house. My Mr. G likes his Jack on artic crushed ice. That’s why refridgerators are so expensive nowadays. That little copper hose has to go a long long way.

Finn McCool

December 10th, 2009
9:13 am

Some folks like to draw inferences using 2nd grade logic knowing full well others see through it.

Beats thinking, though, doesn’t it?

Put your hands over your ears, close your eyes, stomp your feet, and chant (LaLALALALALALALAL, I can’t hear you LALALALALALALALALA)

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:13 am

Mrs. G – doesn’t that thing get clogged by … like … seals and polar bears??? ;-)

Joey

December 10th, 2009
9:14 am

“Haaving largely lost the argument about a scientific consensus on the issue — the consensus is too solid to dismiss any longer — they (skeptics) now argue that the consensus itself is a fraud.”

Jay Bookman believes that “they” only just started arguing that “the consensus itself is a fraud”. What has Jay been reading for the last 15 years? There are thousands of scientist who have argued that there is and never has been no real consensus. Or is Jay just being the same truth challenged Jay that he frequently is?

Let’s acknowledge that most of those who challenge consensus were censored from the major publications by the Global Warming Believers. But their objections and justifications were out there for anyone who had an ounce or two of couriosity. The incourious just missed out.

For the first 10 to 12 years of pushing that the consensus was real almost every article used weather (hot temps, lots of hurricanes, droughts) as evidence. Only when weather was not clearly an indicator of warming did it become a silly form of argument.

Fine Jay, believe in Man-Made-co2 driven-Catasrophc-Global Warming, but be honest enough to acknowledge that there is real evidence that the disease may be manufactured and the chances for success of the prescribed cure is less than 50% at best.

Ben

December 10th, 2009
9:14 am

USinUK: Oh, ok, a glacier melting means the science is settled. An icicle formed on my car overnight, THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED, we’re in for an ice age.

If the science is so settled, then why are so many of those emails about hiding data, and stifling critics? Because unlike you, they know the science is NOT settled, and that a careful examination of their raw data (which they got rid of, and would take two years to collect again) and models would show significant holes in their theories. If they were 100% confident, why so scared to let others examine everything, like science is supposed to happen?

There’s plenty of evidence to show there were even less glaciers in the Roman Warming Period 2,000 years ago than there were 50 years ago. Does that mean the Romans were filling the atmosphere with carbon? Where are the ruins of their factories, the rusted out remains of their internal combustion engines?

Finn McCool

December 10th, 2009
9:16 am

Mrs Godzy,

Mr. Godzy should not abuse ice with that Tennessee canal swill.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:18 am

Statement from the UK science community

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/news/latest/uk-science-statement.html

‘course none of these guys is a former funny abc chicago weather boy
who started the weather channel or anything important like that….

Citizen of the World

December 10th, 2009
9:18 am

Ben @ 9:08

I am certainly not ignoring the acidification of our oceans. That is of extreme concern to me. But the same gases that are causing global warming are causing this acidification, so perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone, or better yet save the birds and the fishes and our oceans and ourselves, by drastically reducing our carbon emissions and quickly.

Of course, I bet if we look hard enough, we can find studies that say that acidification of our oceans is not a problem and/or not a problem caused by CO2 and we can latch on to that and just quit worrying about it altogether! Wouldn’t that be nice.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:18 am

“Blaming global warming, in part, to cow farts is a silly notion. However true it may be, it hurts the serious tone of the argument.”

actually, methane has 20x the impact as CO2 on the environment (a fun fact I learned just last night watching a documentary on the last mass extinction).

there are HUGE deposits of frozen methane on the bottom of the ocean floor – should the oceans continue to warm and the methane thaw … well, that would pretty much be curtains …

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:19 am

re: bovine flatulence

actually, methane has 20x the impact as CO2 on the environment (a fun fact I learned just last night watching a documentary on the last mass extinction).

there are HUGE deposits of frozen methane on the bottom of the ocean floor – should the oceans continue to warm and the methane thaw … well, that would pretty much be curtains …

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:19 am

UsinUk

to quote Papillion…..extra protein!

wyldbyllhyltnyr@gmail.com

December 10th, 2009
9:20 am

Of course, the academic fraud of “Climategate” is repuganant and throws the while body of ALGORE’s work in question.

Temperatures have risen and fallen overtime. So there is nothing unusual about the trend Jay mentioned. (However, in reality, 100 years is far too short a period to measure a macro temperature trend.) The real issue, the one that hasn’t been addressed by ALGORE and the Global Climate Cheats is has the earth lost its ability to self regulate its temperature?

Gale

December 10th, 2009
9:20 am

I agree there is no scientific agreement. I also believe we have very few reliable indicators of thousand year climate trends. We really do not know if this shift is normal for our planet or something we humans are causing. Truely, we don’t even know if we would find a warmer planet completely habitable. The scientific models indicate massive changes, but there is no agreement there either. There is speculation that oceans will rise and get warmer; that a warmer ocean will spawn different weather patters, kill some species and improve some species. I do believe in evolution and the adaptability of life on this planet.

Just Peachy

December 10th, 2009
9:20 am

The climate change deniers make Al Gore out to be the guy in the movie trying to warn everyone of whats happening. They all ignore and are the first ones eaten. That sounds like poetic justice to me except this is real life. We see the effects of global warming. The polar caps melting, the iceburg off the coast of Australia. There are things happening in our life time. What do we except will be left for our kids.

PLEASE PEOPLE WAKE UP AND STOP BEING SO LAZY!

Ben

December 10th, 2009
9:21 am

All I am asking is that we start over. We need to VERY openly and transparently collect raw data from the thousands of temperature stations all over the world. That data set needs to be put online so anyone can examine it. And then competing groups can do so, creating models based on good statistical analysis and prorgamming, rather than the amateur crap the CRU scientists put together. Then the process of real science can happen. And then we can plan to spend trillions. But it’s the height stupidity to stifle our economies based on fudged data, bad programming, and statistical analysis by people who aren’t trained statisticians.

If you want things done right, then this shouldn’t be a big problem to you. On the other hand, if you object to this, then perhaps it’s because you are worried what may be revealed?

Ever heard the phrase “measure twice, cut once?” We are “measuring once, cutting a bunch of times” and that’s a bad base to transform society on.

Swami Dave

December 10th, 2009
9:21 am

…..and , Jay, it is equally plausible that technology and process for measurement are more accurate now than they were then

…..and, Citizen, the scientists who form the “consensus” about climate change are “paid to come to that conclusion” by governments and institutions that fund the research or the funding for more research dries up.

In many of the cases, the “tricks” that Jay mentions were made which directly resulted in outcomes that matched their hypothesis. In these cases, it goes beyond mere observation affecting the outcomes (as is a common occurrence in scientific endeavor) and moves toward actions taken during observation or analysis manufacturing an outcome. That leaves the realm of science moving toward theology; explaining the shocked and self-righteous quasi-religious responses that so many of the evangelists give to anyone who dares question their “consensus”.

-Swami Dave

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:22 am

Ben –

re: the bitchy e-mails … this may come as a surprise, but scientists are just like the rest of us – they can sometimes say none-too-politic things about their colleagues (as for “stifling” dissent, the papers in question actually WERE presented)

and you honestly want to compare your windshield frosting over with polar sheets hundreds of miles across??? REEEEELLY???

@@

December 10th, 2009
9:22 am

jay, I see it differently. It’s the proposed Cap & Tax solution that could prove to be “the fraud”.

From the get-go they hitched it (global warming) to environmentalists…each group, having their own little pet peeve. Why do people conserve? They’re either forced to, or they can grasp the concept of limited space and resources. CO2 is essential.

Should’a marketed it as a way of sticking it to OPEC. People would have bought it then.

Environmentalists were all the rage, back when. Not so much now. As is too often the case, when adulation is won, the recipients (politicians and environmentalists) overreach.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:23 am

Mrs G –

“to quote Papillion…..extra protein!”

not as crunchy.

Bosch

December 10th, 2009
9:23 am

I also love it when people post things that I and others just “don’t seem to get.”

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
9:24 am

“All I am asking is that we start over”

Sounds good to me. Let’s go back, say, 10,000 years and get REAL, SCIENTIFIC temperature data that we can DEPEND ON. Start now.

Jenifer

December 10th, 2009
9:25 am

Birthers & Deniers

The people who refuse to accept the reality that President Obama was born in the United States share much in common with those who refuse to accept the reality that humans are dramatically changing the climate.

http://climateprogress.org/2009/08/07/top-5-ways-birthers-are-like-global-warming-deniers/

Tom

December 10th, 2009
9:25 am

Well sure, Mrs. Godzilla, all those highfalutin’ scientists, with their fancy-pants book-learnin’, assert that the evidence is solid. But the person with the greatest qualifications to EVALUATE the evidence, namely Sarah Palin, says it ain’t so. So there.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:26 am

BOSCH!!! I saw your posts on scotch last night … I heard a great interview last week that you would have loved – the guy was a scotch expert. his top tips for getting the most out of your scotch:

1) drink black coffee prior to your scotch – it will rid your mouth of any sugars left from your dinner
2) never smoke a cigar when drinking scotch
3) place one hand across the top of your glass and one hand around the bottom to help warm the scotch, then lightly inhale while quaffing.

me, I can’t stand the stuff – you can have mine.

Gale

December 10th, 2009
9:29 am

USinUK, it is pointless to inform Bosch about how to drink scotch. He thinks it is just the same as Irish whiskey. ;-)

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:32 am

129 years of record keeping vs total earth existence is nothing. Its insignificant at best. Its meaningless. Kinda like stating…oh…the “average” black person has one “caucasian” cell in their body hence, and God forbid, they are gonna turn white.

Its a Global Climate Farce.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:32 am

Jenifer

Thanks for the link.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:33 am

“Its a Global Climate Farce”

tell that to the people who rely on glaciers to provide their water …

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:33 am

mmm…a nice McCallan 25! Thats about the extent of my price range.

Ben

December 10th, 2009
9:34 am

USinUK, an icicle on my car as proof of cooling is just as ludicrous as melting glaciers proving man-made warming. Glaciers melted long before humans appeared on this planet.

Yes, scientists bitch like the rest of us. If they had a consensus, they wouldn’t, but they don’t have a consensus. There’s a lot of disagreement, so they bitch.

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:34 am

They still have water and wells can be dug if necessary.

Taxpayer

December 10th, 2009
9:34 am

Good job, Jay.

Mrs. Godzilla

December 10th, 2009
9:35 am

How to Make a Fedora Hat out of Tin Foil and Duct Tape

http://www.ehow.com/how_5487448_make-tin-foil-duct-tape.html

You conspiracy folks make ‘em and wear ‘em proudly.

PinkoNeoConLibertarian

December 10th, 2009
9:36 am

USinUK @ 8:43.

Well said.

Bosch

December 10th, 2009
9:36 am

Gale,

It’s from the same region for crying out loud! Aren’t Irish people just drunk Scottish people? J/K
I had a brain burp last night. :-)

USinUK,

Thanks for the advice. But I like to smoke when I’m drinking Scotch – it just goes together for me. Like peanut butter and grape jelly – only 1000% worse for you :-)

Just Peachy

December 10th, 2009
9:36 am

Tom. You hit the nail on the head. We must follow our great Leader Falin Palin right off the cliff. After all when she was Governor of Alaska her opinion at that time was there is a such thing is gloabal warmning. She had to admint this because she could see the polar caps were melting and the permafrost was shifting making the homes in Alaska crack. That is fact. Google it. Her only back fall was to say it was not man made. Fast forward 2-3 years later she did a complete flip flop as evidienced in her op-ed in WAPO.

But we must follow her because of the vast knowledge she has obtained…..well what knowledge has she obtained? What research has she done? What research does she cite for her reason why?

SHE IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST NON-INTELLECTUAL POLITICIANS I HAVE EVER HEARD SPEAK OR WRITE. But she knows how to make that money of her sucker fans. I have to give that to her.

Southern Comfort

December 10th, 2009
9:37 am

The more time goes on, the more things stay the same. I’ve learned to expect nothing different when reading these posts.

I’m no scientist, but I can tell that there’s been a change in the weather patterns over the last 20-30 years. I don’t know if its just cyclic changes or if it’s partially due to man made problems. However, I do know this, I don’t want to find out there is something we could have done to stop it after it’s too late to stop any damage being done.

Maybe it’s CO2 we’re putting in the air, or maybe it’s all the asphalt and concrete we’ve put down that’s causing a change in evaporation/rain cycles. I feel it is worth our time to at least study all avenues to determine 1) if there is a problem and 2) if a problem exists, how do we correct it before it’s too late.

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:38 am

Ben –

“Glaciers melted long before humans appeared on this planet.”

usually because of some catastrophe – like a surge in volcanic activity or an external event like the earth getting clobbered by an asteroid

Taxpayer

December 10th, 2009
9:39 am

By the way, a statement such as “scientists don’t have a concensus” is absolutely true. It has no value unless your pay is directly proportional to the number of characters you type but it is a true statement.

Southern Comfort

December 10th, 2009
9:39 am

Outhouse

Try researching vitiligo. It’s not caused by blacks having caucasian cells, but it can and does turn black people white.

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:39 am

“SHE IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST NON-INTELLECTUAL POLITICIANS I HAVE EVER HEARD SPEAK OR WRITE.”

If this is correct then she is only second to the kenyan.

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
9:40 am

“I can find you plenty fo climate experts that disagree”

Please, PLEASE do that! So many times deniers have said this…and NOT ONE has been able to post the names of those climate experts. Not a single one. PLEASE break that chain!

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:41 am

Bosch –

“Aren’t Irish people just drunk Scottish people?”

don’t you remember the sage advice from SNL???

“If it’s not Scottish, it’s crrrrrrrrap!”

AmVet

December 10th, 2009
9:41 am

The time line of the fake conservatives is at first, they simply denied there was ANY warming. At all. Nope, the instruments are all wrong. Nope, the instruments are in all the wrong places. Nope, all of the people reading the instruments are not standing up straight. Nope, the people reading the instruments are all liars, looking for money. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

They did this for years and years and years.

Then some of the slightly more cogent begrudgingly started to admit that yes, it is in fact getting warmer. And suddenty so. And yes the instruments, data and people are not wrong, leaning or prevaricating. BUT ask any of them if they were incorrect on this matter and you will get the Ollie North. And many of the most intransigent STILL contend that the last decade has been cooler, and various other similar, silly and unproven claims.

But this is simply because of wobbles in the earth’s orbit AND/OR sunspots AND/OR cow flatulence AND/OR volcanoes AND/OR… You get the picture. For the most part, sophomoric assumptions and grasping at right-wing web-site straws in lieu of learned analysis and extensive study and experience.

Then they said that even so, there is NO consensus, that there are many scientists who disagree with the widely accepted theory. And at least their intellectual dishonesty isn’t fully on display here, as it is of course, true. Just as there are a certain percentage of people who will tell you the sky is not blue, there will never be unanimity in these matters. But as has been mentioned many times before NOT ONE SINGLE institution of any standing in the science community – nationally or internationally – in the entire world doesn’t accept the basic premise – that man’s activities since the Industrial Age are involved.

NOT ONE. Out of dozens and dozens and dozens. Across many interrelated fields and exacting specialties of science.

How is that even possible, if this theory were so full of these inanely alleged problems, SERIOUS doubts and lies???

Even so, the new mantra is as JB points out the consensus itself is a fraud.

Good luck with that, red herring and straw man proponents. And keep slinging that circular logic, but nobody of import takes you seriously. Seriously!

And that old fool from Wisconsin? I doubt he could pass an eight grade science exam. Even after he studied for a month!

No better to convene more “studies”. Better to impanel more “commissions” commissioned to do nothing, Better not to PO the oilmen and fossil fuel boys who pay for us to sit here in DC and deflect for them. And above all better keep the Arabs happy by keeping an endless stream of tankers coming here.

The modern GOP has reinvented itself – anti-Law and order, anti-Science and anti-Progress.

And the nation is at last sick of them and “mid evil” (Hat tip to Bob)mentality…

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:43 am

Doggone –

“So many times deniers have said this…and NOT ONE has been able to post the names of those climate experts. ”

you mean you don’t remember the person who posted the “petition” of HUNDREDS of names??? oh, some numpty posted it months ago – it withstood scrutiny like a pinata in a rainstorm …

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:43 am

Southern Comfort

December 10th, 2009
9:39 am

ie Michael Jackson…LOL. I think Mikey just used a bit too much Esoterica. My point was ONE cell as a comparison…you understood the meaning.

Paul

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Paul at 9:10 wasn’t me.

Jay

I admire your perseverance.

Next on the agenda: what to do about it. What I liked about the East Anglia emails is the scientists propose different ways to deal with the manmade effects. I’m surprised this hasn’t been given more coverage. What we have is like going to a doctor and finding out there’s only one possible treatment that will work for a diagnosis: take the new wonderdrug. Forget lifestyle changes, diet, exercise. Don’t even consider it. Just take the wonderdrug.

That’s how I see cap n trade. Many advocates present it as the one and only, mostest bestest rationalest thing going. And forget about proposing anything else.

So soon after a financial crisis where third parties made gazillions swapping little pieces of paper, we have a proposal that would… enable third parties to make gazillions swapping little pieces of paper.

But… we have Democrats who know how to provide regulation and oversight, so no worries, right?

And lay off Bosch. He knows what he likes. Whiskey. All kinds. It’s like pickin’ on a guy for saying ‘women are women’ while the rest argue about hair color and height and weight and all that really important stuff. Oh yeah…. //sarc//

Common Sense

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Liberals have to have a cause to protest about and if there is not one …………. they will make one up. It’s just the “touchy feely” part of their psyche.

The Vietnam War, animal rights, snail darters, free range chickens, condoms in every school lunchbox, global warming ……………. you name it.

Conservatives are usually too busy going to work and raising their kids to be responsible citizens outside of governmental indoctrination to waste time with this drivel.

O.K. …………. your turn.

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Anything better than you typical “red herring and strawman” assertions?

wyldbyllhyltnyr@gmail.com

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

One thing for sure, now that the liberals got a hold of this climate change mantra, they’ll never let go. Look at the way they have ignored advances in medical knowledge when it comes to the beginnings of life and abortion. Look at the way they mindlessly cling to evolution despite the mountain of evidence that undermines evolution. Pretty soo, they make climate change education mandatory in the government schools.

Bosch

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Doggone,

I can’t remember when, but someone posted a link of “experts” who denied global warming, but that list was people who weren’t climate scientists. There are plenty of scientists who deny global warming, but it’s like physicists or cancer experts – not climatologists.

kayaker 71

December 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Does even the climate change debate have to be partisan in nature? It seems like all of the libs back Gore and his climate data and the right has doubts about whether or not it really exists.
Interesting note….. the Smithsonian had a large wall in it’s climate exhibit in 1975 which depicted all of the changes happening in the status of the planet’s weather. It alluded to the fact that we were all going to be subjected to a new Ice Age and that global cooling was not only dangerous but that it would affect all of us to the point that our lives would be changed forever. That kind of “science” isn’t displayed in one of our most revered and tax supported institutions without a lot of forethought. Science that you could believe? That same exhibit is now relegated to a 3 X 3 ft. space behind a wall which makes it difficult to see, much less read. Wouldn’t want our tax support money to dry up, now would we?
Guess how much money is to be made in this debate. Cap and Trade alone will make a lot of people vast sums of money and buy mansions and jet airplanes for many, not just Mr. Gore. Trust? Do you really trust all of those warmers?

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
9:45 am

“you mean you don’t remember the person who posted the “petition” of HUNDREDS of names???”

Indeed I do, but I want the names of those CLIMATE EXPERTS. They keep claiming they can provide them, but they never do.

Ben

December 10th, 2009
9:47 am

I make a perfectly reasonable suggestion, recollect all the data openly and transparently and let anyone who wants to examine it and make models and hypothesis which other scientists can then try to disprove, leaving only the truth. That’s how the scientific process works. Why not be prudent and follow this course before remaking society?

Ignorance H8ter

December 10th, 2009
9:47 am

I know conservatives hate facts, but here goes. The total volume of ozone in the stratosphere has decreased by 4% per decade since the late 70’s. And you know what, it ain’t coming back. Yes – global warming exists.

We have to remember that conservatives need to be cut some slack. I mean, they did vote for George W Bush – twice.

Bosch

December 10th, 2009
9:49 am

We have a Paul impersonator? Oh snap! That will not do! Go away Paul impersonator!

“And lay off Bosch. He knows what he likes. Whiskey. All kinds. It’s like pickin’ on a guy for saying ‘women are women’ while the rest argue about hair color and height and weight and all that really important stuff. Oh yeah…. //sarc//”

Yeah!! (pssst. Paul, I don’t like vodka so much)

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:50 am

Thanks Ignorance Hitler for you Wiki facts!!

BRAVO…*Applause*

Bob

December 10th, 2009
9:50 am

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/climategate_gore_falsifies_the_record
Al leaves himself an out by stateing he did not read all of the e-mails because he said they were all ten years old, they were not. He either flat out lied or chose not to read them. Why would he not read these e-mails ?

USinUK

December 10th, 2009
9:50 am

“I make a perfectly reasonable suggestion, recollect all the data openly and transparently and let anyone who wants to examine it and make models and hypothesis which other scientists can then try to disprove, leaving only the truth. That’s how the scientific process works”

what do you think? that there are only the guys at East Anglia working on it??? there are climate scientists working on this issue all over the world – they all have access to data – they all have different models.

geez-o-pete – what do you THINK is going on???

Doggone/GA

December 10th, 2009
9:50 am

“I make a perfectly reasonable suggestion”

Nope, you made a patently UNreasonable suggestion. You do know, don’t you, that the past is past and can’t be redone? You DO know that, right? WE CAN’T GO BACK and get “better” data. We’ve got to use what we have.

If you have suggestions for better data collection in the future, I’m SURE the climatologist and meteorologists would just LOVE to hear from you. Contact them. Start now.

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:52 am

Bob

December 10th, 2009
9:50 am

The goron is a liar and shythead from way back. Plus he is usually just wrong and incorrect. A bag of hot air.

Bosch

December 10th, 2009
9:52 am

Ben,

“let anyone who wants to examine it and make models and hypothesis which other scientists can then try to disprove”

Anyone like who? The only people who can reasonably make those models are the climatologists – who already do that.

DAVID

December 10th, 2009
9:52 am

GLOBAL WARMING is a fraud……a HOAX……..pushed by the lying AJC….

Outhouse Go-Kart

December 10th, 2009
9:53 am

129 years worth of data do not global warming make. One could, if it were available, add the previous 129 years to the current 129 years and one would negate the other…ie there is no global warming.

Its all just smoke and mirrors…speculation at best.

Bud Wiser

December 10th, 2009
9:53 am

Finn McCool

December 10th, 2009
9:09 am

Bud, get your own blog, dude. If you aren’t interested in the read, surf over to somewhere else…

Never said I wasn’t interested, dude. Go take your make believe inferences and shove them tight and deep. Your opinion is as irrelevant to what is going on as is, well, mine. But I will express what I like, or think is more relevant, and if you don’t like reading it, well then, don’t.