Cutting the ‘2 Big 2 Fail’ down 2 size
In the discussion about banks that are “too big to fail,” I think you start with two observations:
1.) In general, competition and the discipline of failure are better, smarter regulators than government bureaucrats. That doesn’t mean government regulation is unnecessary; it does mean that regulators should be empowered to do only what the market cannot or will not do.
2.) Banks that are “too big to fail” are largely immune to the discipline of failure and to the rigors of competition.
That in turn leaves you with two basic solutions: You can greatly expand the gov’t regulation applied to the “2 Big 2 Fail,” or you can reduce and limit the size of those institutions and by doing so reintroduce the spectre of failure to the system.
There’s a move afoot in Congress to take the second approach, and I hope they have the guts to carry it out.
From the Los Angeles Times:
Angered by bailouts that have kept corporate titans such as American International Group Inc. afloat, members of a key House committee last week voted to give the government vast new power to downsize private companies, something that happens now only in the most egregious antitrust cases.
Instead of helping cushion the fall of Wall Street powerhouses through government aid or variations on traditional bankruptcy, there is growing momentum in Congress to cut those firms down to size before they start teetering to limit the damage if they do collapse.
“The era of the big bank is over,” said Simon Johnson, an MIT professor and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund.
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714 comments Add your comment
Normal
November 25th, 2009
11:42 am
Happy Thanksgiving Day Eve, NIF.
Christianity has held down females since the beginning. “Let your women be silent in church”. The Catholic church, the Babtists all use that phrase to explain away why they will not let women be preachers.
It’s history, so let’s not go there.
Let’s talk about green bean casserole instead…I love it. have a recipe you wouldn’t believe….yum!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:42 am
“Fool’s errand? Not unless mankind is a fool–the corrollary in the Maimonidean is that the purpose of human existence and study IS the drive to bring the two into harmony. That we will ulitimately be unsuccessful does not mean that we should not strive toward that end, each of us in his/her own way. Have you looked into the cabbala?”
I haven’t done any serious study of the Kabbala (sp?), josef.
From a standpoint of Zen Buddhism, as well, the emphasis is on the journey (zazen) and not so much on the end (sartori).
One of these days, if I get wound up enough, we can have a discussion on the Zen components of Judaism/Christianity. They’re not as far apart as some might like to believe.
AmVet
November 25th, 2009
11:43 am
More wonderful irreverence… (And B, loved the line about ducking the flying food! Or is it shoes these days?)
When it comes to bull___t, big-time, major league bull___t, you simply have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull___t story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you.
He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow He just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull___t story. Holy S__t! ~George Carlin
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
11:45 am
Bruno–
I’ll trade you my share of the lime jell-o for your fruitcake–two shares if it’s Claxton’s.
Men and women…my Uncle Ralph, the leprechaun of the hedge school, put it this way, “you have to protect the baby factory. If you don’t there won’t be any more of us. That’s in our evolution, the science of the matter. How we go about that is culture.”
USinUK earlier brought up Lysistrata–always worth a second look in this matter.
The MOTs will be aware of Lillith. (I had an Aunt Lillith–quote Mama, “what was Miz Vashti thinking when she named that child?”
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
11:49 am
Jo Nix – not a MOT, but even I know about Lillith!!
and you guys can have my green bean casserole and my lime jello stuff, and you can even have my American version of fruitcake (English fruitcake is much better!), but you had better keep your mitts OFF my apple pie!!! (and a small sliver of pecan pie with it – they go kinda nice together)
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:49 am
“And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you.”
LMFAO!
I’m still impressed by his chosen epitaph: “Hey, wasn’t he just here a minute ago?”.
AmVet
November 25th, 2009
11:49 am
The three Abrahamic religions are all basically founded on misogyny, in the sense of mistrusting women.
True, much of it is was continued based on historically social norms, but is this even arguable?
And it is why the worst of the Judeo-Christian types ensured it would take until 1920(!!!) and the Nineteenth Amendment to codify an end to the practice in this “enlightened’ nation…
Jackie
November 25th, 2009
11:49 am
Had some errands to run for the holidays.
@Dave R.
“Fix the PROBLEMS, Jackie.
I’ve said this all along. Even Mrs. G. at one point supported this plan.
1. Enact tort reform to lower malpractice insurance costs and end excessive and needless defensive testing for simple issues.
2. Allow insurance companies to offer their products across state lines.
3. Encourage insurance companies to offer group policies towards job classifications such as real estate agents or auto workers, rather than by employer.
4. Expand Medicare coverage for ONLY those people with existing pre-conditions that private companies won’t take and for those below the poverty level that cannot buy insurance, but require that a 3/4 majority be put in place to keep Congress from expanding that pool when it suits their re-election fancies. That would be the extent of a government option.”
1. Ask Texas about tort reform. It does not help in any way in resolving the issue. It only provides more money to the health insurance carriers. Saves 1/4/ of 1%, at most.
2. Health insurance IS offered across state lines. Where areCIGNA, United Health Care and other providers located?
3. Encourage health care companies? Next comment.
4. Your proposal does nothing to reduce the cost of health care insurance. Without a large pool that takes all comers, the health care companies can choose whomever they want in order to maximize their profits.
Ask yourself, why do yo pay your premium to a health care company; they did no work to relieve you of your suffering?
In my opinion, your proposals would make the situation worse than it is presently.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:51 am
“but you had better keep your mitts OFF my apple pie!!! ”
So much for us all getting along this AM. That’s MY pie, and I’ll sumo wrestle you for it!!
(I may be at a disadvantage, though, having recently lost 20lbs)
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
11:51 am
Bruno – “I’m still impressed by his chosen epitaph: “Hey, wasn’t he just here a minute ago?””
baHA!!! love it!
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
11:54 am
Bruno –
“(I may be at a disadvantage, though, having recently lost 20lbs)!
1) well done, you!!
2) just how big do you think I am, mister???!!!
3) apple pie + pecan pie will pretty much remedy the lost 20 pounds …
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:55 am
You know, USinUK, I still miss the old W2W, though. We argued a lot back then, but the level of vitriol wasn’t as extreme as on Jay’s blog. SOme of these “conservatives” are actually starting to make ol’ chuck look good!
Normal
November 25th, 2009
11:55 am
Bruno, having recently lost 20lbs)
I think I found them…
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
11:56 am
NIF–thanks for the citation. I knew it sounded like him but wasn’t sure…
AmVet–
Another one from the leprechaun of the hedge school, “Aw, Jodie, the Ten Commandments is just a dumb a*s’s cheat sheet for judgment day…”
Bruno–
If you do look into the cabbala (many spellings), stay the f away from the pop cultural version!
Oh, and food for thought on misogyny, “tis a wise man who knows who his father is…” Women (and wimmyn alike) have been lying through their teeth for a long, long time!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:56 am
“2) just how big do you think I am, mister???!!!
I would answer nicely, but since we’re after that same last piece of pie, all bets are off…..
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
11:57 am
Bruno –
I miss some of the W2W regulars (can you believe Sunshine’s kid will be nearing 1, soon?) … but I don’t miss how almost every discussion devolved into abortion … at least here, there’s a lot more diversity in the things we argue about!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:59 am
“I think I found them…”
USinUK has previously proposed the Shift Diet. It starts by selecting some unsuspecting passerby….
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:02 pm
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
11:59 am
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:03 pm
Don’t know if any of you remember The Greaseman, but he had a funny schtick about how to increase the donations in church. In his best preacherman voice he would say “Now folks, I have two sermons prepared this morning. The first one is 20 minutes long, the second one is two and a half hours. We’re going to pass the collection plate around to determine which sermon you get.”
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:06 pm
Bruno–lost 20 lbs? Told Unmentionable I’d lost the same–he says, “don’t look now, but it’s following you!”
Hemmingway cats, Mama, and knowing who your father is…when I was born, the delivering doctor was an old beau of Mama’s she had jilted in favor of my dad. Well, I popped out and as the doc was looking me over, he burst out laughing. Mama, of course, “what’s wrong?” “Well,” said the doc, “there’s no question he’s Charlie’s!” Turns out I had six toes on one foot! Still have it. It never grew and is this little baby one on the side of my second toe on my left foot which, I’m sure, would mean something to the cabbalists and our Yankee detractors!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:07 pm
“I miss some of the W2W regulars (can you believe Sunshine’s kid will be nearing 1, soon?)”
Wow, I didn’t think about that. Remember when TOJ accused her of being JokesOn and their battles over gestation periods?
“but I don’t miss how almost every discussion devolved into abortion … at least here, there’s a lot more diversity in the things we argue about!”
We got the abortion issue cranked up a little bit on Sunday and Monday. Reporter doesn’t seem to grasp how someone can oppose something, yet realize that simply making it illegal may not be the best solution.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:09 pm
“Told Unmentionable I’d lost the same–he says, “don’t look now, but it’s following you!”
Actually, the ladies at work didn’t like my weight loss. They said I have NA Syndrome now.
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
12:12 pm
Bruno –
“They said I have NA Syndrome now.” in my family, we just say that we suffer from noassatall …
“Wow, I didn’t think about that. Remember when TOJ accused her of being JokesOn and their battles over gestation periods?” he accused EVERYone of being JokesOn (bless him) … and I was there for the Great Gestation Debate … good times …
“Reporter doesn’t seem to grasp how someone can oppose something, yet realize that simply making it illegal may not be the best solution”
darlin’, that’s jsut the tip of the iceberg of the things whiner doesn’t grasp …
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:15 pm
USinUk–
Well, jus’ sayin’, but there’s at least one thing whiner grasps!
Nothing Is Free
November 25th, 2009
12:16 pm
USinUK
Have a good Thanksgiving.
AmVet
You left out the most important part of the title of the tree. It’s the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was just saying that Adam and Eve were innocent. I’m not sure I would quote Frank Zappa as an authority on much of anything.
There’s a lot of problems with that story, but the tree is not the problem. Where Cain and Able found a wife? That’s a problem.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:18 pm
To be fair, Reporter has thrown out some solid Friday night music selections, though they tend toward the metal side. RW impressed me with “Sentimental Lady” by Bob Welch.
USinUK
November 25th, 2009
12:19 pm
okay, my fine feathered friends … I’m heading home – I hope everyone has a fantastic day tomorrow and is able to enjoy the time with their family and friends … (just, for the love of god, keep the green bean casserole to yourselves)
take care!
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:20 pm
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:15 pm
USinUk–
Well, jus’ sayin’, but there’s at least one thing whiner grasps!
We can only assume…
Mrs. Godzilla
November 25th, 2009
12:20 pm
Just poppin’ in to wish ya’ll a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Hug all your loved ones and kiss the baby’s till there cheeks are chapped!
Here a topic for you discuss……
Turkey sandwhich?
Mayo or Miracle Whip?
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:21 pm
Happy Thanksgiving, USinUK…wish you were here!
Matilda
November 25th, 2009
12:22 pm
USinUK & Bruno: HEYYYY! I miss it sometimes too, but at least here Mr. Bookman steps in when things get too personal (Not that we ever needed that…) USinUK, I’m sorry about the spat we had last Thanksgiving. Hope you have your fill of yummy American food and do indeed take the day off just on principle!
I haven’t decided what dish to make for my family gathering yet. I like to make black beans, but it’s not very Thanksgiving-y. PIE IS THE BEST! I like it all! But it’s fattening… B, me thinks you’re too skinny now.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:22 pm
MRS. G, Happy Thanksgiving to tou and yours. Aye, aye, on the huggin’ and kissin’, Ma’am
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm
NIF
Cain and Abel took wives from among the women of men…implying that A and E were created to be special and “above” the slings and arrows of all that mere flesh is heir to–like loss of innocence, a life of misery, then death–all with no real and concrete meaning and purpose beyond procreation.
Nothing Is Free
November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm
AmVet
Religion gives some people peace. But it is no more crazy than some of the “Earth Concerts” I have seen. When Melissa Ethridge starts talking about how much she believes in the ex-bible pounder Al Gore, the idea of a big man in the sky that loves everyone doesn’t seem nearly as crazy.
And why don’t you have the same problem with Astrology? Or do you? I never hear anyone talking about how crazy that idea is. Yes, I know: Nancy Reagan. Of course Nancy was never the president and every straight guy knows about the craziness that sometimes we all must face.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm
“There’s a lot of problems with that story, but the tree is not the problem. Where Cain and Able found a wife? That’s a problem.”
Which means that Adam and Eve weren’t the “first” humans in the sense of being the only Homo sapiens in existence on Earth at that time. I view the whole Adam=First Man, Eve=First Woman as meaning that Adam and Eve were the first Enlightened Humans who had the power of moral discrimination. Taking things out of a “literal” context and putting them into an “allegorical” context is the only way to understand the stories, IMO.
BTW, I”m sure you realize that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are two distinct Creation stories, with significant, irreconcilable differences?
Mrs. Godzilla
November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm
gee I wish I could spell worth a hoot …..
AmVet
November 25th, 2009
12:28 pm
NIF, I only relay such heretical writings to……well, you know.
Mrs. G, great question!
My family is split over this important issue.
And in spite of the clever jabs in that wonderful movie Undercover Brother, I’m a mayo man…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubV3t9_CwDc
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:28 pm
“USinUK & Bruno: HEYYYY! I miss it sometimes too, but at least here Mr. Bookman steps in when things get too personal (Not that we ever needed that…) USinUK, I’m sorry about the spat we had last Thanksgiving. Hope you have your fill of yummy American food and do indeed take the day off just on principle!”
I do remember you telling her that she could keep her nasty bangers and mash. And I trust any “differences of opinion” we may have had in the past are truly in the past.
“B, me thinks you’re too skinny now.”
I went from 188 to 168. I didn’t like the belly fat, it distracted from my better features. (See, some things never change, do they? LOL)
Nothing Is Free
November 25th, 2009
12:28 pm
josef
**Cain and Abel took wives from among the women of men…*
Whatever. I mean really I see it all as a parable. God is nature. Nature is God. Earthquakes are caused by God? Earthquakes are caused by nature. Do we have an afterlife? If that is the natural order of things, then yes we do. We will all find out some day. Does our actions here decide how we spend that afterlife? I know that Karma is real, so I can see that happening.
I just know that anyone who thinks they know all the answers is a fool, whether they be a Freewill Baptist, Al Gore or an atheist.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:29 pm
Normal–
“We can only assume… ”
There are some things you just want to think about!
USinUK
Will be thinking of ya tomorrow!
MsG
MAYO! You can take that Miracle Whip and send it with the lime jell-o to the Third World!
Matilda–
I’ll have a second helping of black beans!
Matilda
November 25th, 2009
12:33 pm
josef, okay, I’ll make them, then. Thanks! Besides, I have fresh red peppers from my garden that are looking for a good dish to invade. Hey, that means I don’t have to go to Publix today. Yayyyy!
Matilda
November 25th, 2009
12:35 pm
“I just know that anyone who thinks they know all the answers is a fool… I must agree with you there, NIF.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:37 pm
“And in spite of the clever jabs in that wonderful movie Undercover Brother, I’m a mayo man…”
Hilarious clip. I’ll counter with a classic scene from Airplane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZwMcoDVJM
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:37 pm
NIF
In response to all the answers…while I am a believer, that is my choice for no one can prove the existence of G-d any more than one can prove there isn’t. Ultimately, we’re all agnostics. Afforded the option, I go with there is, being an optimist.
And what is a Christian? A Jew with an insurance policy….
Mrs. Godzilla
November 25th, 2009
12:37 pm
lime jello is the food of the dark overlord……
AmVet
November 25th, 2009
12:39 pm
NIF, I put astrology right up there with Tarot cards.
My two cents worth?
Almost all people are petrified at the the thought of life ending in oblivion – nothingness, emptiness, nihility, nirvana, nonexistence, nothing, nowhere, nullity, out there, void.
I have looked for the “answers” my life entire life starting in high school. (Ask my mom when I was a RABID Jesus guy in my teens!) I have read an enormous amount about religions, philosophy, cosmology, epistemology and every other ology.
In my estimation oblivion is the most likely answer…
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:40 pm
Matilda–
glad to be of survice! Oooh, that pepper sounds good! Me? I have to make potato salad and crepes…Unmentionable has already threaded the crowds at Publix. He actually ENJOYS that. The boy ain’t normal….
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:40 pm
“I just know that anyone who thinks they know all the answers is a fool”
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don’t know…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw6_VXPwm6U
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:41 pm
Josef, the Devil is makin’ me ask you this, why are you celebrating Thanksgiving Day when it was Ol’ Abe Lincolns gift to the North?
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:43 pm
Oh, and Josef, “And what is a Christian? A Jew with an insurance policy….”
Is that a term or whole life policy?
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:44 pm
The boy ain’t normal….
I bet he would be if he met me…
Nothing Is Free
November 25th, 2009
12:45 pm
AmVet
LOL Yea I know. To pi$$ everybody off.
But that’s OK. People take other people’s beliefs way too seriously. Just try to be good to other people and understand that some people will never get any smarter no matter how much you yell at them. (Not talking about you personally, but that crazy woman in that Mercedes this morning talking on her cell phone was God’s way of teaching me patience.)
And I deeply resent that Islam has stolen the Phrase Allah Arkba (God is Great) For a religion that cover’s women up from head to toe to claim that really pi$$es me off.
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:49 pm
In my estimation oblivion is the most likely answer…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuVrnIpISFM&feature=related
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:49 pm
Normal–believe it or not, my Granny refused to celebrate it for precisely those reasons. “We’ve already got Rosh Hashana, what do we need with Diocletian of the Potomac’s apostasy?” Before we had the kids to raise, Unmentionable and I didn’t do it, me for the reasons you cite, and he for red ones. When the kids came along we changed since there was no reason to make them feel ostracized. Same logic Mama used when Santa Clause came to see her little ones…
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
12:50 pm
Normal–
Term or whole life? I think that probably lies at the heart of their sectarian squabbling!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
Life, so they say
Is but a game and they’d let it slip away
Love, like the autumn sun
Should be dyin’ but it’s only just begun
Like the twilight in the road up ahead
They don’t see just where we’re goin’
And all the secrets in the universe
Whisper in our ears
All the years that come and go
Take us up, always up
Dreams, so they say
Are for the fools and they let ‘em drift away
Peace, like the silent dove
Should be flyin’ but it’s only just begun
Like Columbus in the olden days
We must gather all our courage
Sail our ships out on the open seas
Cast away our fears and
All the years that come and go
Take us up, always up
(So) I wanna laugh while the laughin’ is easy
I wanna cry when it makes it worthwhile
I may never pass this way again
That’s why I want it with you
(’Cause) You make me feel like I’m more than a friend
Like I’m the journey and you’re the journey’s end
I may never pass this way again
That’s why I want it with you, baby
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
Bruno
168???
Bro, I’m equal to 1.5 of you. lol!!!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:56 pm
“Is that a term or whole life policy?”
Depends on the particular sect from my understanding.
Enjoyed the blog fellowship this morning. Have a good one…..
Normal
November 25th, 2009
12:56 pm
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
Bruno
168???
Bro, I’m equal to 1.5 of you. lol!!!
Yo, me too, almost on the nose!
Bruno
November 25th, 2009
12:57 pm
“Bro, I’m equal to 1.5 of you. lol!!!”
Which is when I come through your line in Feb it will be “Yes, sir!! Whatever you say, sir!!”
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
12:57 pm
Normal
I’m a few short of a perfect 1.5, but I’m d@mned close.
Nothing Is Free
November 25th, 2009
12:58 pm
AmVet
I stopped searching in high school. Searching for something that we are all sure to find just never appealed to me. I believe in Ghosts, spirits, the power of lots of people praying for the same thing and the healing power of a long walk on a warm, sunny day. I believe in love, esp and that heaven would not be much of a place if it didn’t include all the dogs and cats that I have had in my life. Maybe there we can talk.
I have miles to go before I sleep. Everyone is gone back home to Tennessee for thanksgiving and I had to stay here because of work so I will be spending Turkey Day with football, scotch and some “herbal medicine.”
Have a great Thanksgiving, everyone.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
1:00 pm
ABM, don’t you just hate those losers…
Normal
November 25th, 2009
1:01 pm
NIF, same to you. I think you have the star to steer by…just sayin’
AmVet
November 25th, 2009
1:02 pm
NIF, my bite is WAY worse than my bite!
I’m glad we found a way to get past what I’ve never really been able to do before here.
Thank you…I am glad to count you as a friend and look forward to many great discussions and yes – disagreements – with you! I think just maybe we can teach other something. Something good. Something important…
B, a nice little cover of a nice little song…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sbezvcNF2M
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
1:05 pm
Normal
All I’m saying is that my mother didn’t raise a quitter, even at the dinner table.
A wise word of warning for those with children. Be wary of them playing games outdoors over the holiday. Seems like there are some child hating deer amongst us.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/PSA-Playing-some-Thanksgiving-Day-football-Bew?urn=nfl,204609
Gale
November 25th, 2009
1:05 pm
Gee things got friendly while I was at lunch. Did all the nasties leave or did they take the offer of pie and get sweet?
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
1:08 pm
Gale
I don’t know what happened. I had to put a few people on a plane back home. I came back online, and all was cheery here.
I saw your earlier comment. I don’t know if the weather had any effect on strategic planning during the Civil War, but it had an effect on the troops who were inadequately prepared for it.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
1:14 pm
ABM–that’s one bad a** Bambi!
Normal
November 25th, 2009
1:16 pm
ABM, Gale, Yep, after the first year of the war, most of the Southern soldiers werebarefoot warriors. One of the Urban ledgends about Gettysburg is that Lee was actually headed to or around York, PA, but heard of a supply of shoes at gettysburg. Have to ask Josef, if this is true but I’ve heard about it all my life.
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
1:19 pm
Normal
That’s how Gettysburg started. Confederate troops were headed in town to gather shoes for their troops. I can’t remember which group it was, but they ran into Union Calvary and thus began the skirmish.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
1:22 pm
I won’t know if I got this until I post, but if I do…read. It’s a history lesson for tomorrow…
http://www.newsweek.com/id/224068
Angry Black Man
November 25th, 2009
1:32 pm
Normal
After reading that, I’m more than pleased that my family’s diet is transitioning towards organic foods only. I try my best not to feed my daughter any meats or dairy that has been “juiced”. I pay more, but I think it will pay off health-wise in the future.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
1:39 pm
The settlers at Jamestowne had a feast to give thanks for surviving the Starving Time over 10 years before the Pilgrims ever landed at Plymouth. There were thanksgiving type celebrations among the Spanish people in what is now the southwestern U. S. before the Jamestowne settlers arrived and of course many Indian tribes throughout the Americas had been having feasts to give thanks for a long time. So the First Thanksgiving wasn’t really the First Thanksgiving at all.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
1:45 pm
Y’all–this is true of G’burg. Another sidelight on the difference between them and us…Lee
demanded that any requisitions from the Yankee population be paid for at fair market value–C*nfederate currency, of course! However, those bills that can be reasonably verified as having come from Lee’s army are highly prized and fetch a high price among aficionados!
The story is told that General Cleland, one of my own C’federate heroes, during the Battle of Franklin, paused in his ride to give his boots to a barefoot soldier, saying “where I’m going, I won’t need them.” He was killed in the battle. Ima Gonna could learn a lot from this man.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
1:52 pm
On the subject of lack of shoes among Confederates:
The retreat from the Battle of Nashville was conducted in sleet and ice. According to many first hand accounts the ice on the roads was stained with the blood from barefooted soldiers.
General Cleburne (a native of Ireland by the way) was one of five Confederate generals killed or mortally wounded at the Battle of Franklin. In my view, the ill-fated charge that Gen. John Bell Hood ordered there is one of the biggest horrors in a war that was filled with horrors.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
1:54 pm
oops–that’s General Cleburne…Max must be on my mind!
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
2:00 pm
Hillbilly
Cleburne was also gay, and quite openly so, and was one of only two C’federate generals to adopt Judah Benjamin’s 1861 proposal to free any slave and their families who would serve in the Army…the other was Nathan Bedford Forrest who freed 40 of his, men who rode with him til the end.
Gale
November 25th, 2009
2:03 pm
I knew there was a shoe factory in Gettysburg. My lessons didn’t point out that was the reason the Confederate troops were headed there. In retrospect, the Confederates might have done better by waging a gorilla war. However, I seem to remember something about all the shipping and manufacturing being based in the North, while the South was raw goods; property poor, as it were.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
2:19 pm
Gale one of the ironies of the war, to me at least, was that General Longstreet openly advocated for a defensive war from the beginning. Arguing, and correctly, that the Noth had more men and material. Anyone who studies warfare knows that to take a defensive position from the enemy, you had to have at least three times the manpower and even then it would be a close thing. General Longstreet was to become one of Lee’s superior generals, but even at Gettysburg he argued against Pickett’s Charge. If Lee had listened, many confererate live’s would have been saved.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
2:20 pm
GALE–
On the guerrilla warfare–the tactics of Gen. Forrest, still studied in military academies worldwide, he credited to his freed slave Jerry Forrest…
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
2:27 pm
the other was Nathan Bedford Forrest who freed 40 of his, men who rode with him til the end.
And of those 40, the one in charge of the rest, Jerry, was referred to by the others as “the General”.
Interesting story, Bedford Forrest had one horse, King Phillip, that was his favorite of all his war time mounts. He rode this horse through many battles, in spite of having had 30 horses shot out from under him, and King Phillip survived the war. King Phillip developed a hatred for the color blue and would snort, paw at the ground, and try to charge, if he wasn’t restrained, if he saw blue.
One day after the war Bedford Forrest and the General were putting up fence posts in a field and King Phillip was grazing unattended. Along came a detachment of Union occupation troops riding down the road. Upon seeing them King Phillip immediately charged the troops. One of the Union men struck at the horse and Jerry, the General, ran out to the horse’s aid and order was restored.
In my view, if Forrest had ever been given command of the Army of Tennessee, expecially early on, things would have been a lot different in the Western Theatre.
Gale
You posted that South might have been better off fighting a guerilla war, and I would tend to agree with that. Most of the high ranking Generals on both sides were West Pointers though, and I think this idea was foreign to them.
Bosch
November 25th, 2009
2:32 pm
Hey, i like lime jello. Carrot raisin salad is the food of the dark overlords. Green bean casserole too. that’s just nasty.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
2:32 pm
Normal
Lee referred to Longstreet as “my Old War Horse”. Longstreet was a master counter puncher and he turned out to be right about Gettysburg.
Longstreet moved to Gainesville, Ga. in 1875 and remained there until he died in 1904. He is buried in the Alta Vista Cemetery in Gainesville.
Gale
November 25th, 2009
2:35 pm
Thanks guys. I wonder if I can retain the inspiration and go looking for good books. Can anyone recommend? I have particular interest in the economics of the war.
Curious Observer
November 25th, 2009
2:42 pm
Yes, it is true that the initial foray into Gettysburg was to search for shoes. However, it was not for shoes for Lee’s entire army. Rather, it was a single brigade of around 300 men, and the search was for shoes for that brigade. The brigade commander had Lee’s blessing. It was just an accident of history that the brigade encountered a fairly strong Union force passing through, withdrew, and reported the existence of the force to Lee. The brigade commander even stated his intention to return to Gettysburg the next day to accomplish his mission, but by that time Lee’s aggressiveness had taken control of the situation and even stronger Confederate forces were diverted to Gettysburg.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
2:45 pm
Gale, Shelby Foote wore a narritive trilogy “The Civil War” that is very good. He explains a whole lot about the reasons the started, economics, and ramifications involved. It’s easy to read and is a good primer. You would be amazed at how much Lincoln was like G.W. Bush (or visa versa) in the actions he took in the name of “preserving the Union”.
If you can find it, there was a PBS series on the book too…
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
2:47 pm
Gale
I don’t know of any books that focus on the economics, although I’m sure there are some. As a starting point though, I’d recommend Shelby Foote’s 3 volume set, “The Civil War: A Narrative”. (Took me almost a year to read those by the way). Foote’s material is well researched and since he was such a talented writer, they don’t read like the typical history book.
When you read something in there about the economics that interests you, I’d suggest checking the bibliography and trying to find the source material to read. That works with pretty much any history. Just keep digging back and you’ll find more material.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
2:50 pm
Hillbilly, Normal and Gale–
Well, the moderator held up my 2:39–what more did I expect?
HEY JAYBIRD–
Okay, there it is again…and you really expect me to believe your happy horse sh*t from previous just such? What kind of fool DO you take me for? Do I hold it against you and the moderator? Hey, it’s your blog and just adds more fuel and evidence to my argument…
Normal,ABM-elsewhere
Disgusted
November 25th, 2009
2:50 pm
Lee referred to Longstreet as “my Old War Horse”. Longstreet was a master counter puncher and he turned out to be right about Gettysburg.
My favorite nickname of the entire Civil War was the one Union troops bestowed on General George Meade, the commander of all Union forces at Gettysburg. His distinguishing feature was protruding eyes, and his troops referred to him as “Old Goggle Eyes.”
Normal
November 25th, 2009
2:52 pm
Hillbilly, year ago I remember a book called “The Court Martial Of Longstreet” It was based on the fact that the South had won at Gettysburg and Longstreet was being tried for treason since he had talked against the final charge(which inthe book, was a success). It was a fascinating read and historically accurate as far as the battle was concerned. I can’t remember the author, though. Have you heard of it?
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
2:55 pm
GALE–
Two suggestions (if I can get it past the watchers!)
Clement Eaton’s “A History of the Southern C’federacy” is a very good overview of the various aspects…
and
E. B.Long’s “The Civil War Day by Day” one of the most fascinating books I’ve ever read on any subject of such nature–amazing amount of information…
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
3:02 pm
GALE–
BTW, Foote is G-d as far as I am concerned when it comes to this subject.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
3:04 pm
Jay, I just read Josef’s post elsewhere and I can find no reason it would be moderated. What he was saying was a fascinating peice of history that all of us interested in the American Civil War would love to see. It doesn’t make sense. Please explain this one to me, either here or elsewhere, but I do believe we are owed an explaination. Please.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
3:05 pm
disgusted–
Let’s not forget where the term “hooker” came from!
Lincoln called Winfield Scott, “Old Fuss and Feathers.”
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 25th, 2009
3:05 pm
Normal
No, I’ve never heard of that book. I do know that there was some ill will towards Longstreet after the war for his views on Gettysburg as well as for his advising Southerners to accept Union rule. There has been a great deal of discussion about his comments on accepting Union rule by various people, often using his stance to make a political point one way or another. If you read his book, “From Mannassas to Appomatox”, however, he makes the point that he advised Southerners to accept Union rule because at that point, they basically had no choice.
And a tad unrelated but one of the most interesting anecdotes from the war is about Union Gen. Sedgewick. His men were penned down by Confederate sharp shooters and he was trying to rally them. He said, “I’m ashamed of you, dodging that way”. Then he laughed and said, “They couldn’t hit an elephant at this distance”. The next shot hit him under the eye and he was killed.
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
3:06 pm
Normal–
Thanks, but I’ll lay you ten to one he will either dance a two step or ignore it entirely. Since you already know about it, don’t you think this is a good one for the books?
josef nix
November 25th, 2009
3:10 pm
Hillbilly–
Longstreet was a traitor at worst, a self-serving hypocrite at best, in my opinion.
Normal
November 25th, 2009
3:12 pm
BTW guys and gals, I’m still at work. The only one here now. They foolishly let the warehouse people go and since my shop is in the warehouse too…I’m waiting on a pick up. I wish it would be a ‘53 ford pick up, but that’s another fantasy…
————–
After I leave here, I’m headed to Mom’s for a early Thanksgiving dinner.
She is getting quite shy of crowds now and is afraid she won’t remember names and such. I would rather have he not get stressed too.
——————-
But in case I forget…EVERYBODY HAVE A GREAT THANKSGIVING!!! EAT LIKE
THERE IS NO TOMORROW! LAUGH, LOVE, DANCE, DRINK!!! Really, have a great one.
Dusty
November 25th, 2009
3:17 pm
Well…have a fine Thanksgiving one and all.
I should stop there but…
I can’t stand superficial cherry-o … I so cute and ho ho ho.. (All that sugar is not healthy.)
Then…..
Seems those that know so much about religion never darken the doors of the places where it is celebrated and encouraged. ho ho ho forever mo!
And….
I don’t celebrate war but I still know that most of our freedom is still with us because we fought for it. :Lest we forget and all that. oh oh oh
So bah! humbug ! With heartfelt best wishes for you & your families. May we all be thankful as we are truly blessed. Then pass the forsaken fruitcake ( Uh… oh….drifting off to.cherry & cute!!)