Cutting the ‘2 Big 2 Fail’ down 2 size
In the discussion about banks that are “too big to fail,” I think you start with two observations:
1.) In general, competition and the discipline of failure are better, smarter regulators than government bureaucrats. That doesn’t mean government regulation is unnecessary; it does mean that regulators should be empowered to do only what the market cannot or will not do.
2.) Banks that are “too big to fail” are largely immune to the discipline of failure and to the rigors of competition.
That in turn leaves you with two basic solutions: You can greatly expand the gov’t regulation applied to the “2 Big 2 Fail,” or you can reduce and limit the size of those institutions and by doing so reintroduce the spectre of failure to the system.
There’s a move afoot in Congress to take the second approach, and I hope they have the guts to carry it out.
From the Los Angeles Times:
Angered by bailouts that have kept corporate titans such as American International Group Inc. afloat, members of a key House committee last week voted to give the government vast new power to downsize private companies, something that happens now only in the most egregious antitrust cases.
Instead of helping cushion the fall of Wall Street powerhouses through government aid or variations on traditional bankruptcy, there is growing momentum in Congress to cut those firms down to size before they start teetering to limit the damage if they do collapse.
“The era of the big bank is over,” said Simon Johnson, an MIT professor and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund.
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714 comments Add your comment
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:14 pm
AmVet
Robert Ekelund. My God, he’s at Auburn. How smart could he be?
What does an Auburn grad and a tornado have in common:
At some time in their life, they WILL end up in a trailer park.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 24th, 2009
2:15 pm
ObaMao thinks being president is all about parties, double talking and bascially consulting with Sasha before making decisions. Im sure lil Sasha is intelligent, however, we need a leader and NOT a Campaigner in chief.
Jake
November 24th, 2009
2:17 pm
Massive small bank failures probably wouldn’t be much better than a few large bank failures. I see the lack of oversight by Greenspan and Dugan and Congress along with the limitless greed of the bankers, investment bankers, and mortgage loan companies as the principal causes for the current recession. However, allowing AIG and BOA to go under would almost certainly have deepened the recession.
Sunshine and Thunder
November 24th, 2009
2:18 pm
C’mon, Jay. We all know that in the liberal mind, the only thing too big to fail is government. What liberal wouldn’t love to see Citigroup go belly up simply because all of its top executives would stop getting any salary at all?
Remember the words of the immortal Milton Friedman: “When a company fails it goes out of business. When a government program fails it gets more money.”
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:21 pm
AmVet
BTW. The MAC wasn’t broken. Maybe they don’t ever break.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 24th, 2009
2:21 pm
Obobo needs to appoint a “Business’ to big to fail” Czar. Yea…that should do it.
mm
November 24th, 2009
2:25 pm
All I can say is “What happened to the enforcement of our antitrust laws”?
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
2:27 pm
Yeah, NIF, I noted that too!
You do know the n in Auburn stands for nowledge right?
But read that article I linked. Seriously, it is DAMN hard to find significant problems with it much less discount it…
Good news on the MAC.
I know this much, when it comes to brand loyalty, NO company in the world can touch them.
I have a friend in Hollyweird – a director of photography and camera operator – who wouldn’t even consider PCs.
Cats like him are FIERCELY loyal to Apple…
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
2:27 pm
Oh drat and all that
Those mighty companies are out to get me.
The power just flickered (GA Power is BIG).
My computer had a long fainting spell.
The server ran away with the moderator,
Bookman is probably in Washington with the rest of the turkeys.
On computer awakening AmVet and jewcowboy still think Bush is president.
Normal is running hot and cold.
There aint no justice.
And the big corporations DID IT!
ABM, would you fire a shot at GA Power and make them behave??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 24th, 2009
2:31 pm
I think the government of the United States is too big to fail and we should start whacking away on it, right now.
Little socialist punks, like luring some kid into a car with candy so that you can rape them.
Real respectable.
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
2:32 pm
Nothing is free,
Did Redneck go to Auburn?
Jake
November 24th, 2009
2:32 pm
Gramm Leach didn’t cause the recession. AIG, for example, went under because they had an under-regulated portfolio of high risk CDS’s. The CDS’s went bad because greedy bankers and mortgage loan companies created interest-only ARMs and ninja loans because they made huge profits up front and then sold off the risky mortgages, which firms like Bear Stearns bought and then securitized. Allowing companies like Citigroup to merge banking, investment banking, and insurance under one umbrella wasn’t a proximate cause. International giants, like ING, did that a long time ago without financial system collapse.
mike
November 24th, 2009
2:32 pm
“They disgusted me then and they disgust me now.”
Stop the presses.
Milton Keynes Krugman Laffer
November 24th, 2009
2:36 pm
Sunshine and Thunder gives us some delicious stupidity-lace irony for the day:
When a company fails it goes out of business.
Right after noting: What liberal wouldn’t love to see Citigroup go belly up…blah blah, blah.
Citibank would have gone belly up if it wasn’t for the government. Same with AIG, GM, and the rest of the modern American economy if it wasn’t for government intervention. Wall Street and big ol’ companies are constantly sukking off government welfare and “government programs”. Phuleez.
Sunshine, maybe you try complaining about the DMV, the post office, the military or some other government program you resent.
Or maybe you should go into a closet and sell your own pharts.
Milty
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 24th, 2009
2:36 pm
During our last Robber Baron period, Teddy Roosevelt came along and busted them up. That has been steadily eroded over the decades. If they’re too big to fail, bust ‘em up. Then they won’t be too big to fail.
This thing is like an ocean liner; it doesn’t turn on a dime. It takes a long time.
Normal
November 24th, 2009
2:37 pm
DDUUUSSSSTTTTTYYYYYYY! What passion!!
OK, KO, what does a UGA grad call a GA Tech grad? Ready? BOSS!!!
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
2:40 pm
Paul
It would have been indecent if I had mentioned the 12-gauge pump.
NIF
That 2:14 is hilarious.
Dusty
If I could get a moment with the powers that be at GA Power, I think all our problems would go away. I’m researching solar and other methods so I can cut back on them as much as possible. If a hamster in a wheel could generate enough power, I’d buy a few of those too!
Joan
November 24th, 2009
2:43 pm
Well, those idiots in Congress bailed out the banks with no strings attached, so the banks just bought other banks and got even bigger–but they can fail, as can this once proud country, if this idiocy runs its course.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:43 pm
AmVet
I will try to check out the article. I am going at about light speed right now.
I use an old Hafler PA amp powering a couple of JBL studio monitors for my audio system. it used to be my stereo when Hi-Fi meant two speakers. It was the power fuses in the amp. I’m still getting a 60 cycle hum at high volume. i use the audio in the computer for presentations, but it is clean. It’s just playback. i think it;s just this rat’s nest of wires under my computer desk. I also need much more RAM. This thing will hold 32 gigs and I have two. I’m going to fix that this weekend. But with what RAM costs for this thing, I could buy a decent PC. MACS are great, but the money gets crazy. My budget is getting tighter and tighter and I refuse to start using Credit cards.
Running. I’ll talk to you soon. BTW. I appreciate the good words last night. I don’t know what to think of Bruno. Seems like a nice fellow.
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
2:44 pm
Hillbilly
You didn’t get the latest memo, did ya? This thing should have been corrected by September. We live in a instant society now. When we want something, it just happens. There’s no such monster as taking your time, that’s “old school”.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:46 pm
ABM
**That 2:14 is hilarious.**
You can actually insert any school, but Auburn just works so well.
BS Aplenty
November 24th, 2009
2:50 pm
AmVet,
I read the article and I have to say that Professor Ekelund should not mix politics with economics in his theoretical arguments. He says on one hand:
1. the problem created by the Bush Administration is too much government involvement with corporations,
but we should,
2. return to the gold standard (and be subject to this fine metal and whoevers mines it),
3. reinstate Glass-Stegal separating traditional and investment banking (why? because we’ve gotten too creative in financial services? huh).
Ekelund maybe a fine ivory tower economist but the real world demands much more coherency.
Microsoft is not too big to fail and is only lightly regulated compared to financial services. Get the government out of financial services and the companies that fail will be taken over by smarter bankers. It works.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 24th, 2009
2:52 pm
Well, while you all are fussing and griping about big cos. President Obobo is getting ready to host his first state dinner for some towelhead from India. It just makes my guts growl.
First, it ain’t a dinner. It’s a supper. Dinner is something you eat around lunch time.
Second, if we got this much money to blow on a meal why don’t they give us some more tax cuts? Instead of spending money hand over fist.
Third, it can’t be that much fun. Just think, you’re setting there with some of the biggest big-shots in the world and you need to cut a big one. All you can do is set there and try and hold it in.
Anyhow, I was griping about all this to the missus the other night. She was on a diet again and kind of grumpy, I reckon. She’s bound and determined to get down to 315 before Christmas. Anyway, she up and told me I would never get invited to one of these suppers. Then she started carping about how I pour my coffee into a saucer to let it cool a little and then slurp it. And how I use the same fork to eat salad and meat and dessert. And then she took a swipe at my clip-on tie I wear to church.
So one of the things I’m grateful for this Thanksgiving is not getting invited to a state dinner. It would be miserable, I’m sure. Besides, they probly invite alot of Those People and librul Democrats. With that company I’d rather eat beans and weenies in my truck alone and do what I want.
Have a good night everybody.
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
2:53 pm
NIF
As a Die-hard Tider, it’s funny just the way it is!!
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:55 pm
BS Aplenty
I am running, but I need to say this. I’m a little scared of investing in gold. Nowadays, a person needs a really valuable asset that has real value. Gold has been replaced in almost every practical application so it is mostly a decorative metal. It is almost like the dollar, letting the market determine it’s worth. Silver and even platinum seems to be a more stable investment.
I know you were quoting an economist, but I just thought I should say that
BS Aplenty
November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm
NIF, your point is well-made. I’m not advocating a return to the gold standard.
mike
November 24th, 2009
3:03 pm
Redneck Convert -
Thanks for the mindless bigotry. It is always such a treat to see a “tolerant” liberal deal in nasty and ignorant stereotypes. It speaks well of you and your upbringing.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 24th, 2009
3:05 pm
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
2:55 pm
LOL…Thats quite the position…LOL *POOT*
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 24th, 2009
3:06 pm
You didn’t get the latest memo, did ya?
Or even the memo before that. Not only am I out of the loop, I was never in the loop.
I’m glad I’m not a kid anymore; I’d hate to be starting out in today’s world. I understand what you mean though; we want patience and we want it right now!
As Bill Withers sang, “Good things come to those who wait but not to those who wait too late”. If we don’t get this country straightened out, one of these days it’ll be too late. Just hope I’ve gone on to my reward before that happens.
hi my name is mike
November 24th, 2009
3:11 pm
hi name is mike.
i love to show people how smart i am. i also like complaining about “tolerant” liberals and ‘intelligent’ arguments. i am much smarter than intolerant liberals. they are stupid and probably didn’t go to a state college.
see ya’ later. i gotta go watch my DRV recording of the Beck show and phart in my hand and then smell it.
getalife
November 24th, 2009
3:17 pm
LOL.
mike just got attacked by RC.
So that is what a parody argument looks like.
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
3:18 pm
Hillbilly
“If we don’t get this country straightened out, one of these days it’ll be too late. Just hope I’ve gone on to my reward before that happens.”
I hope I’m alive to see things get straightened out. I refuse to give up or give in, but I understand your sentiment.
getalife
November 24th, 2009
3:21 pm
Well, the USSR collapsed but came back.
Some States will break off but it will be ok.
Perhaps we can sell Alaska back to them.
Throw in sarah to seal the deal
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 24th, 2009
3:32 pm
getalife
It’s conceivable to me that this country could break up to 5 or 6 different ones at some point. I’m not advocating that though.
Normal
November 24th, 2009
3:33 pm
Getalife, maybe we could really downsize and sell the Louisiana Purchase back to the French and Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and california sold back to the Spanish. Think of the Money we’d save…
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
Normal
Haven’t you seen how much real estate has dropped. We should have done that about 2-3 years ago to take advantage of the market when it was hot.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
3:45 pm
Looks like this would be a great time to look into that Morgan Out Islander.
hi I am a mindless bigot
November 24th, 2009
3:51 pm
Hi. I post here under the name of “Redneck Convert”. Because I am a very ignorant and intolerant person, I acribe ignornant and intolerant stereotypes to any who do not share my narrow minded views.
Like most liberals who like to talk about how intolerant those who do not share my narrow minded views are, I am as intolerant as any common racist. I just hate Southerners and Christians.
I am too much of an intellectual coward to ever make a point. If I did so, I might actually have to defend it. No, I think I will continue to limit my contribution on this board to demonstrating that liberals are just as capable of utter ignorance and hateful bigotry as anyone.
Have a good night everybody except Christians (who I hate like a Klansman hates African Americans)
mike
November 24th, 2009
3:53 pm
Redneck Bigot –
BTW: I bash Beck as the idiot he is here all of the time. But hey, that does not fit with your ignorant stereotype, so it must not be true.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
3:55 pm
hi I am a mindless bigot
We get it.
Can we expect many more of these?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 24th, 2009
3:55 pm
A Kentucky census worker found hanging from a tree with the word “fed” written on his chest killed himself and staged his death to look like a murder, authorities said Tuesday.
I told you liberals would do anything to pin one on the RW.
Now, if they only weren’t so duhmn.
mike
November 24th, 2009
3:56 pm
NIF –
I thought it was obvious that was me. Just responding to the wonderful (and creative) parodists in the crowd. Sorry to disturb the quality of debate.
saywhat?
November 24th, 2009
4:00 pm
Dr. Adrian (Dr Adrian Rogers, founder of the Talibaptist movement):
“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom.(You cannot legislate the poor into power by legislating more power to the wealthy) What one person(corporations and shareholders) receives without working for, another person (everybody else) must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.(If you don’t want a government to give or take anything, move to Somalia) When half of the people (Wallstreeters, major CEO’s/ major shareholders) get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half (the rest of us)is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for (i.e. worker productivity rises dramatically, yet real wages go DOWN), that is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.(You can only multiply wealth by concentrating it in the hands of the already wealthy, and then hope something trickles on you)”
I fixed it for you Mr. Basic premise.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 24th, 2009
4:01 pm
Good idea voting for hopeandchange.duh-
Joblessness for 16-to-24-year-old black men has reached Great Depression proportions — 34.5 percent in October, more than three times the rate for the general U.S. population.
And you know that Obozo has been shoveling money into the ‘hood, mmm, mmmm, mmmmm, so who’s been pilfering it?
It sure ain’t trickling down.
mike's spiritual advisor
November 24th, 2009
4:01 pm
I prefer anonymity.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
4:01 pm
mike
LOL!
Quality of debate? Really?
I’ve been looking at sailboats. Man the prices are amazing. They are lower than 1970 prices.
I have dreamed of taking off in a sea going boat all my life. I just hope I can do it while I am still young enough.
hi my name is mike
November 24th, 2009
4:04 pm
intolerant
ignorant
intolerant and ignorant
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
4:04 pm
OK, for all of you wild-eyed, way out, anti-Adam & Eve atheist types, today is a biggie!
150 tears ago today, the first edition of “The Origin of Species” was published in London.
And after a century and half, nothing the non-explanationists have ever dreamed up has trumped natural selection.
Thank you Charles Darwin.
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
4:06 pm
Whatsa matter with you guys?? Here you are trying to sell off the country. I tell you. Times do change. If I had said a few years back,”The South will rise again so how much you offer?”, somebody would have immediately offered me their white sheets so I could prowl at night and put hex marks on tombstones.
Of course, I would never ever sell off my beloved South or any other part of the USA for that matter. But….come to think of it…maybe a few of those Yankee states …nawwww….even them I wouldn’t sell.
So, stand at attention, my friends, and salute the flag.. All sales are off today except for the big pre-Thansgiving ones which will glady take your money and the shirt off your back.
That reminds me, I better get to the store. Don’t sell off a single state while I’m gone. It aint nice!!
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
4:06 pm
AmVet
Hey Darwin just explained that God took his time.
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:07 pm
NIF –
“I’ve been looking at sailboats. Man the prices are amazing. They are lower than 1970 prices.”
Yeah, I imagine it is a great time to buy most luxury items. Now if I only had some money
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:08 pm
troll -
You forgot “mindless partisan”. I say that a lot too.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 24th, 2009
4:11 pm
WASHINGTON (AP) – Signaling an imminent decision on Afghanistan troop levels, President Barack Obama said Tuesday he intends to “finish the job” and destroy terrorist networks in the region.
Haha, Obozo is going to do a dump on Code Pinko, over the Thanksgiving weekend, hehe.
Sputter into your stuffing, moonbats.
Rightwing Troll
November 24th, 2009
4:17 pm
yesterday Andy was postulating about searching the internet for videos of children, today he’s talking about luring kids into the car with candy…
I’m jest sayin…
Heh… someone thinks there’s “debate” going on in here… that’s rich…
Common Sense
November 24th, 2009
4:20 pm
How about this one folks !!! All conservatives and liberals alike should be for this one correct ???
Finally, something we can agree on ?
Constitutional Amendment Number 28
“Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.”
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:22 pm
Rightwing Troll –
“Heh… someone thinks there’s “debate” going on in here… that’s rich…”
The comment was (quite) sarcastic.
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:24 pm
Common Sense –
““Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States.””
I am confused. What laws must Senators uphold that the rest of the citizenry does not?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 24th, 2009
4:33 pm
Troll/ Lord Help Us and mike are unable to debate, so they whine and stalk.
ewwwwwwwwwwwww
Common Sense
November 24th, 2009
4:35 pm
Mike:
The Congress routinely “exempts” themselves from lots of legislation. For example, the “Civil Rights Act”. It’s like they are better than us ?
The current issue is the “proposed” Health Care Plan …………… it is my understanding that they have exempted themselves. I’ll stand corrected if I am wrong.
In any case, the above amendment would ensure they couldn’t do that in the future. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander !
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
4:36 pm
Not really NIF.
In March, 1863, Darwin wrote to J. D. Hooker: “… I have long regretted that I truckled to public opinion, and used the Pentateuchal term of ‘creation’, by which I really meant ‘appeared’ by some wholly unknown process.”
http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?viewtype=text&itemID=F1577&pageseq=1
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 24th, 2009
4:36 pm
Common Sense
Agreed
Mike
They exempt themselves from the provisions of certain bills they pass, some anti-discrimination statues don’t apply to them from what I’ve read.
Normal
November 24th, 2009
4:42 pm
Mike, Give me a tall ship and a star…
Sea Fever
I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel’s kick and the wind’s song and the white sail’s shaking,
And a gray mist on the sea’s face, and a gray dawn breaking.
I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull’s way and the whale’s way, where the wind’s like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover,
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick’s over.
John Masefield
getalife
November 24th, 2009
4:42 pm
Great.
I will be a Mexican and they legalized drugs.
Now back to the parody debate.
Good stuff
hi my name is mike
November 24th, 2009
4:43 pm
mindless phartison
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
4:47 pm
Mike
**Now if I only had some money**
That’s my problem. Credit means nothing when buying something like that, unless you have like half a mill of a credit line. I certainly don’t.
I love to sail, but it’s always been on someone else’s boat.
This is what I want: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/14127
if the economy improves I’ll be able to put away some cash, but the price of that boat will go up like crazy. And so it goes.
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:47 pm
Common Sense –
“The Congress routinely “exempts” themselves from lots of legislation. For example, the “Civil Rights Act”. It’s like they are better than us.”
Help me understand this. I am not familiar with any exemption for Congressional members.
“The current issue is the “proposed” Health Care Plan …………… it is my understanding that they have exempted themselves. I’ll stand corrected if I am wrong.”
I’m not saying you are wrong, but I have never heard about this. I am interested in learning more, can you point me towards a source? If true, that would seem to be a stupid move for them politically.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
4:49 pm
Normal
**And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick’s over.**
There is nothing like sleeping on a boat that is far out of sight of land.
Sunshine and Thunder
November 24th, 2009
4:49 pm
“Or maybe you should go into a closet and sell your own pharts.
Milty”
Brain-dead, liberal butt jokes. The third grade class is just down the hall on the left.
Whoopee, the government saved Citigroup. Thank-you (dimocRAT) congress.
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:50 pm
OK. I found a whole bunch of laws that Congress is exempt from:
http://www.rules.house.gov/Archives/jcoc2ai.htm
Learn something every day!
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:51 pm
Normal –
Many thanks. I actually read it out loud
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
4:52 pm
AmVet
Ah, what the hell does he know.
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:53 pm
NIF –
My dad actually got into sailing when he was in his forties and still does a lot in his 60s.
My attention span is too short for sailing, although it is nice to spend time with the old man.
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
4:54 pm
Well, had to (got to?) check out early last p.m. and the holiday stay-with-y’all bunch are out seeing the sights, whatever they are, of lovely not-yet-reconstructed, occupied Atlanta and I had a little time to come back and say hello to this bunch of malcontents…
I see we’re still arguing how to downsize the country–why not let’s just go ahead and accept the Compromise of 1850 boundaries and let the imperial colony south of the Mason-Dixon-Ohio River-36 30 go its own way and see what they can come up with, citizenship determined in accordance with international standars of born there, automatic. Those born elsewhere who want to stay and are already resident can sign up and be given the rights of natural born citizens. Those still not sure can have 5 years to make up their minds at which time they can become naturalized citizens if they choose and their properties remain untouched. Those choosing to go immediately can liquidate their properties under a certain value, say a million dollars, and leave. Those not willing to take citizenship still here after five years would have their properties confiscated and sent packing. Those wishing to move here from outside would be dealt with on a case-by-case immigrant basis.
The one criterion that would be non-negotiable would be that in registration of populations no race or religion category could be used.
Just an idea…
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
4:56 pm
Normal–
Thanks for the poem…one of my all-time favorites from the time I was a wee child and Mama would recite it…
mike
November 24th, 2009
4:56 pm
josef nix -
Intriguing, but you need to start with a specific goal. What is the desired outcome?
samuel
November 24th, 2009
4:57 pm
To the conservatives on this blog, i have made this point too many times: Corporate welfare (bailouts, tax breaks) are a much bigger part of the federal budget than individual welfare payments. In Fiscal Year 2008, for example, individual welfare payments totaled $47.5 billion dollars. The bailout package was more than 15 times that amount. Conservatives constantly tout the benefits of unregulated free markets. Then why do GM, AIG and others need to be bailed out by the government? This most recent recession and financial crisis is the result of 30 years of the supply-side economics started by Ronald Reagan. Instead of people making money by making things, too many people make money by manipulating other people’s money. The real thieves aren’t people on welfare, but people who cheat hard-working Americans out of their money (Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, any number of corporate executives who fly to Washington on corporate jets while begging for taxpayer money). If conservatives were more informed, they wouldn’t constantly spout this nonsense about government vs. free markets.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
5:02 pm
Mike
There’s nothing like it. You get so used to the noise of the little diesel that is pushing you out of the harbor, but when the sails open up and the engine is killed, there is just something about those sounds of the ocean with no motors that is very alien and very familiar at the same time.
I love the outer Abacos, where the water is crystal clear and only about 20-40 feet deep so you see all sorts of BIG sea creatures running along beside your boat. Then you put in to places like Hopetown http://www.visithopetown.com/gallery.html
or Green Turtle Cay
http://www.go-abacos.com/cocobay/aerials-1-12-7/GreenTurtleAerial-12.jpg
and hang at some little bar until time to go back out to the boat.
I’m in trouble now. I’ll be thinking about this for weeks.
Common Sense
November 24th, 2009
5:05 pm
Mike:
If you are really interested in this do the research. I think you will be amazed. The arrogance of those in Congress is beyond belief. That’s why we need term limits also.
It’s like when they want everyone in D.C. to send their kids to government schools but they would never send theirs ……………. they all go to private schools.
samuel
November 24th, 2009
5:05 pm
AmVet, thanks for the Todd Rundgren video from earlier today. It sums up my feelings perfectly.
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:05 pm
mike–
The nature of empires is that they eventually fracture and fall. That fracture and fall can be degenerate, it can be violent and destructive, or it can be peaceful and thought out. But, from all past experience, it appears inevitable.
The desired outcome, from my perspective as a native of said area to ve decolonized, would be to have no one but ourselves to blame for our failures and no one to take credit for our success but ourselves and to be allowed to define ourselves for ourselves…
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:08 pm
NIF
Auburn graduates? Well, one of my cousins has a nice, restored ante-bellum in Mobile and a lovely villa in Barbados. Pretty fancy trailers, I’d venture…
Normal
November 24th, 2009
5:08 pm
Yes y’all, the ocean. Magnificent sun rises and sunsets. When the oceans gods are calm, the seas are like glass. Flying fish will jump right onto your ship and become dinner. Dolphins play tag at the bow, surfing in the wake. The tips of the waves glisten and reflect the sunlight or moonlight like a Kaleidoscope.
But when the ocean Gods are angry, the wind, the waves, the very depths themselves try to crush you. At that time, when your ship is being tossed, you raise your fist and shout, “not this time.” “We will prevail”. But you fear the power of the storm. Then dawn comes and the seas have lessened and you realize you have been tested and pronounced…Sailor. G-d bless the oceans.
Sorry for waxing poetic, but I do miss the seas…
mike
November 24th, 2009
5:09 pm
samuel –
“To the conservatives on this blog, i have made this point too many times: ”
Apparently this is your pet spiel, as you are brining this up out of nowhere.
“Corporate welfare (bailouts, tax breaks) are a much bigger part of the federal budget than individual welfare payments.”
“Tax breaks” are part of the federal budget? What “tax breaks” are you talking about?
“In Fiscal Year 2008, for example, individual welfare payments totaled $47.5 billion dollars. The bailout package was more than 15 times that amount.”
This action was supported by liberals too and is defended to this day by the Obama admin who provided much of this bailout. Don’t try to pin the bailouts on mean old conservatives.
” Conservatives constantly tout the benefits of unregulated free markets.”
No conservatives support some regulation. Conservatives oppose over-regulation.
“Then why do GM, AIG and others need to be bailed out by the government? ”
How did lack of regulation have anything to do with GM’s demise. Be specific.
“This most recent recession and financial crisis is the result of 30 years of the supply-side economics started by Ronald Reagan.”
This is a very simplistic and partisan explanation. You seem to forget the role that Carter and Clinton played in deregulation and are ignoring that massive burden that our entitlements are placing on our economy.
“Instead of people making money by making things, too many people make money by manipulating other people’s money.”
And why are you blaming conservatives for this. You do know that Obama raised a ton more form Wall Street than McCain did, right?
“The real thieves aren’t people on welfare, but people who cheat hard-working Americans out of their money (Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff, any number of corporate executives who fly to Washington on corporate jets while begging for taxpayer money).”
Let me know if you ever find anyone who disagrees with you about corporate crooks. BTW: Madoff was a huge Democrat fund raiser, so again blaming this on conservatives is silly.
“If conservatives were more informed, they wouldn’t constantly spout this nonsense about government vs. free markets.”
Hmm. Let’s see if you can respond to my questions before you start sneering about who is informed.
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:10 pm
common sense…
“It’s like when they want everyone in D.C. to send their kids to government schools but they would never send theirs ……………. they all go to private schools.”
One of the many reasons I don’t hold Ima Gonna in the highest regard. Talks the talk, but don’t walk the walk. The very definition of hypocrite in my lowly opinion….
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 24th, 2009
5:13 pm
Josef
From last night, my comment about “can it really be colonialism when you’re colonizing your own country?” was meant tongue and cheek with a little dose of irony thrown in. I think you had already left before I could explain that.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
5:15 pm
Normal
**but I do miss the seas…**
It’s been two years for me. We were on a 54′ Cat. A rental.
I hope this economy hurries up. I’m growing old and I need to get back to the Islands.
Common Sense
November 24th, 2009
5:16 pm
Mike:
I hope you know that it’s the “filthy rich” that make this country so great. I only hope we can make more of them. They buy yachts, etc. and guess what that does? It provides work for thousands. The bottom line is, the more money rich people have to buy expensive things the better off we all are ………………..
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
5:17 pm
josef
It’s an SEC joke. Lighten up.
mike
November 24th, 2009
5:17 pm
josef nix –
“The nature of empires is that they eventually fracture and fall. That fracture and fall can be degenerate, it can be violent and destructive, or it can be peaceful and thought out. But, from all past experience, it appears inevitable.”
I actually agree with you on this. My shorthand is that “democracy does not scale”.
When a democracy gets to the point a 60/40 vote leaves 60 million voters on the losing side, it can’t function. We are definitely at a point where the country is so big and the needs and wishes of the electorate are so diverse that the government can’t really represent the people or get any meaningful legislation through.
I would love to see the federal government just defend the borders and uphold the Constitution. Let the states drive everything else with the understanding that intra-state migration can never be hindered. Then you can move to the state that best matches your views
mike
November 24th, 2009
5:19 pm
Common Sense –
Why is that comment directed at me?
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:22 pm
NIF–
Oh, not to worry, I knew that… I was just joshin’, too…! I should have put in a
mike–
I disagree on the unhindered intra state migration…I’m opposed to it for the same reasons as a Latvian or a Moldavian would have been under the Soviet regime…
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
5:26 pm
samuel, yuo’re welcome. Glad you like it…
Take the socialist bailouts out of the numbers and corporate welfare is still a massive, thoroughly corrupted boondoggle paid for by taxpayers.
The exact numbers are almost impossible to calculate but direct subsidies alone are about 65 billion dollars. EVERY year.
Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and MANY others have received untold millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank.
And don’t forget about poor ADM which gets mountains of cash from the federal crop subsidy programs.
These giveaways and other “sales” at giveaway prices of the sovereign people’s assets to corporations by Uncle Sam is a national disgrace…
Repukes and DummyCrats are ALL Scum
November 24th, 2009
5:26 pm
How naive of Jay, it is not size but political clout that matters. AIG was bailed out not to save AIG, rather it was bailed out to save Hank Poulson’s old firm, Goldman Sacs. Taxpayer money went in the front door at AIG, and immediately flowed out the back door to Goldman. Tiny Tim the Tax Cheat forced AIG to pay off Goldman at 100 cents on the dollar, when AIG had already agreed with Goldman that 40 cents on the dollar was all they would get. The taxpayer got shafted by Tiny Tim and his Tiny crooked brain, but then again we know what he is, now don’t we? A New York City crook.
Nothing Is Free
November 24th, 2009
5:27 pm
Common Sense
**They buy yachts, etc. and guess what that does? It provides work for thousands. **
Not much anymore. The Clinton/DNC administration of the early 90s with their luxury taxes forced almost all the really good boat builders to either go under or go off shore. i think Irwin is still in business, but they bring in hulls from somewhere else and Morgan was bought by Bertram and while they are still sold in Florida, I don’t think they are built here anymore.
The really fine hand built boats are all gone to South America and Asia. Now, like everything else, the really nice boats are all built in Japan.
Tax the rich and the rich will leave. How long will it take the Democrats to figure that one out?
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:28 pm
Hillbilly–
Oh, believe me, there was no explantion necessary. I caught the irony and defintely am in your corner on that one—but ssh we ain’t supposed to talk about that!
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
5:33 pm
Tax the rich and the rich will leave.
Or as Alvin Lee wrote,
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more
I’d love to change the world
But I don’t know what to do
So I’ll leave it up to you
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, No none for me
I’d love to change the world
But I don’t know what to do
So I’ll leave it up to you
Oh yeah
World pollution, there’s no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Senators stop the war
I’d love to change the world
But I don’t know what to do
So I’ll leave it up to you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzrUqAtUcpU
josef nix
November 24th, 2009
5:34 pm
AmVet–
Eat the rich!
Pogo
November 24th, 2009
5:35 pm
I agree that I am sickened by the “too big to fail” cop-out. There is no such thing in a healthy capitalistic economy. What happened when Pan-Am imploded and everyone was saying “they’re too big to fail”? They failed and others stepped in to take their place. That is the way it is supposed to work. Other big companies have fallen but capitalism has corrected itself time and time again.
Don’t think Obama will do anything about it because he is owned and operated by General Electric and George Soros both of who stand to make big money if his socialistic programs are put in place. The expect payment for their support of his campaign last year.
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
5:44 pm
josef, now you’ve gone all Soylent Green on me!
I got a card today from Amnesty International (BOO! HISS!!) with this on it.
And I’m not sure why but I thought of you.
Ne sois pas découragé. Tu nés pas oublié.
(Do not be discouraged. You are not forgotten.)
hi my name is mike
November 24th, 2009
5:48 pm
the word of the day is:
pedantic