Cutting the ‘2 Big 2 Fail’ down 2 size
In the discussion about banks that are “too big to fail,” I think you start with two observations:
1.) In general, competition and the discipline of failure are better, smarter regulators than government bureaucrats. That doesn’t mean government regulation is unnecessary; it does mean that regulators should be empowered to do only what the market cannot or will not do.
2.) Banks that are “too big to fail” are largely immune to the discipline of failure and to the rigors of competition.
That in turn leaves you with two basic solutions: You can greatly expand the gov’t regulation applied to the “2 Big 2 Fail,” or you can reduce and limit the size of those institutions and by doing so reintroduce the spectre of failure to the system.
There’s a move afoot in Congress to take the second approach, and I hope they have the guts to carry it out.
From the Los Angeles Times:
Angered by bailouts that have kept corporate titans such as American International Group Inc. afloat, members of a key House committee last week voted to give the government vast new power to downsize private companies, something that happens now only in the most egregious antitrust cases.
Instead of helping cushion the fall of Wall Street powerhouses through government aid or variations on traditional bankruptcy, there is growing momentum in Congress to cut those firms down to size before they start teetering to limit the damage if they do collapse.
“The era of the big bank is over,” said Simon Johnson, an MIT professor and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund.
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Balance Our Budget
November 24th, 2009
10:32 am
Support for Health Care Plan Falls to New Low
Monday, November 23, 2009
Just 38% of voters now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the lowest level of support measured for the plan in nearly two dozen tracking polls conducted since June.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% now oppose the plan.
Half the survey was conducted before the Senate voted late Saturday to begin debate on its version of the legislation. Support for the plan was slightly lower in the half of the survey conducted after the Senate vote.
Prior to this, support for the plan had never fallen below 41%. Last week, support for the plan was at 47%. Two weeks ago, the effort was supported by 45% of voters.
Angry Black Man
November 24th, 2009
10:37 am
Couldn’t that be done by simply enforcing current regulations and not letting an “investment firm” take deposits to become a bank? Or some other method of skirting regulations.
Skip
November 24th, 2009
10:40 am
And how much support is lost because the plan dosen’t go far enough? You think we don’t want improved healthcare?
Jackie
November 24th, 2009
10:46 am
@Balance Our Budget
You cite numbers from a single poll.
Here is a link that uses most of the major polls and the questions asked relative to health care.
Different story for different political affiliations.
http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm
Peadawg
November 24th, 2009
10:47 am
Skip, we want improved health care, like insurance companies not being able to deny us b/c of preexisting conditions. What we DON’T want is to have to pay for other people’s health care.
The difference between mandatory car insurance and mandatory healthcare is I don’t pay for other car insurance, so don’t even that argument up!
Peadawg
November 24th, 2009
10:49 am
And please God, Obama, DON’T SEND ANY MORE TROOPS. Bring them home like you promised!!!
USinUK
November 24th, 2009
10:50 am
only have a second to comment, then I’m outtie …
first of all, where would Congress get the authority to break up any banks or investment houses (if they’re not a monopoly, I wouldn’t think that Congress could do such a thing) … ??? would be interested to hear what peeps think.
secondly, how do you measure the size of the corporation? if it’s a bank, do you look at their asset/liability ratio? or just the amount of deposits? their market saturation?? if it’s an investment firm, do you look at their risk level? their overall assets under management? where they’re invested??
anyhoo … just my £0.02 in 0:02 seconds …
will try to hop in later … hope everyone is having a good day and eating lots of big meals this week to stretch their stomachs for Thursday!!!
USinUK
November 24th, 2009
10:53 am
Peadawg –
I’ll second your 10:49 and raise you a “hear! hear!”
USinUK
November 24th, 2009
10:53 am
Peadawg –
“What we DON’T want is to have to pay for other people’s health care.”
hate to tell you this, but you already do …
and now, I’m really outtie for a while …
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 24th, 2009
10:56 am
Well, I see where this young fellow up in Illinois was walking around minding his own business and being peaceable when one day his Mommy up and told him his Daddy was Charles Manson. It throwed the young man out of whack quite a bit. He told the newspaper people he was downright shocked. Said he was a nice man most of the time but once in a while he got real mad for no reason. Anyway, if I was his neighbors these Muslim Terrists wouldn’t be the only people I’d be keeping a eye out for.
Anyways, seems to me the guvmint ought to keep its grubby hands off big business, being as how they are part of the Free Innerprize system. I reckon if they grow real big we could name the country the United States of IBM or Google or Morgan Stanley or Microsoft and just turn the whole treasury over to them instead of bailing them out again when they get into trouble. I would as soon take my orders from a CEO with ten houses and gold-plated faucets and all that stuff than take them from a Kenyan that’s one of Those People and wants to take my money and give it to a bunch of welfare bums.
But no, they won’t quit till every co. is so little it can put its headquarters in a double-wide. It just don’t pay to get ahead in this country anymore.
Have a good day everybody and don’t ask your Mama who your real Daddy is. You might not want to know.
Peadawg
November 24th, 2009
10:59 am
Redneck Convert, you’re an idiot. Period.
Jess
November 24th, 2009
10:59 am
100% agree with Jay on this. I didn’t understand why we did not do this during the bailout, until I realized that with the strings attached to bailout money, the government has a toehold on controlling almost 50% of the capital in this country with just 4 or 5 large banks.
It is for this reason I believe any attempt to break up the large banks will fail.
GoingBroke
November 24th, 2009
11:00 am
I have to agree with USinUK (shudder) about the whole authority issue.
If we are going to start breaking things up.. where will it stop? What about the airline industry? If Delta were to fail the economic impact would be far reaching until the industry had a chance to recover. We already own GM, AIG, etc.
Given their reasoning. the US is too big to fail.. does that mean we can start downsizing Gov’t?
El Jefe
November 24th, 2009
11:06 am
Well it is about time someone inside the beltway showed some glimmer of brains.
In this market, no one is too big to fail.
You either success or fail on your own merit. The problem today is that Congress thinks it knows better than the market place and propping up failing institutions is a lose-lose idea.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 24th, 2009
11:14 am
we managed to break up ATT…..
El Jefe
November 24th, 2009
11:22 am
Mrs. Godzilla,
Yes, that is correct. The courts broke up a perceived monopoly and AT&T became an unregulated utility. It survives or dies by its own hand.
As we have seen, with the merging of AT&T, SBC and Bellsouth, not even AT&T is too big to fail.
BTW, SBC bought AT&T and Bellsouth and decided to keep the name. AT&T in its original form did not survive, but instead was taken over.
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
11:26 am
The Three Principles of Capitalism (thrown in the dumpster by GWB et al.)
1) If you own it, you control it. (although the current situation is the exact opposite)
2) In a free society, you are free to fail. (NO bailouts.)
3) No governmental manipulation or intervention; free market fails when government intervenes.
In light of this, I ask is it any wonder why the greatest socialist in American history – George Bush – is not so thoroughly reviled?
DoggoneGA
November 24th, 2009
11:29 am
“If we are going to start breaking things up.. where will it stop? ”
The way I see it, if the government can approve the mergers that allowed those companies to get that big…they can do the opposite and break them up when they get too big. As Mrs G said: reference ATT
DoggoneGA
November 24th, 2009
11:31 am
“In light of this, I ask is it any wonder why the greatest socialist in American history – George Bush – is not so thoroughly reviled?”
IOKIYAR
Hard Right Hook
November 24th, 2009
11:33 am
“That doesn’t mean government regulation is unnecessary; it does mean that regulators should be empowered to do only what the market cannot or will not do.”
Praytell, exactly how do regulators do only what the market cannot or will not do?
The other liberal messiah, FDR, signed the Emergency Banking Act in March 1933. I’m betting the Act already contains unused and non-enforced regualtions needed now.
The liberal answer: more regulations, more “fees.”.
Yo'momma Obama
November 24th, 2009
11:34 am
He he he, apparently Ayatollah Hussein Obama SUCKS at golf. Not only that, he had played more golf in 1 year than Bush did in 8. I wonder if Super Fat Michael Moore will make a documentary of Obama playing golf while Afganistan burns. Wonder if he’ll provide a video with Hussein saying “now watch me hit this drive”
btw, I thought golf was too snobbish and corporate for the Muslim. He should be back at the Southside throwing it down with the homies on the blacktop
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
11:34 am
Hmm…I didn’t think government was supposed to run businesses. Now the politicians are running banks. businesses and want to run healthcare. I prefer they take care of constitutional requirements in it’s smallest and just form and protect us from our enemies. That I think is something we can afford and need..
Balance Our Budget
November 24th, 2009
11:37 am
Now that the truth is beginning to dribble out about the Troubled Asset Relief Program – the Government Accountability Office’s eagle-eyed auditors said they found no evidence that it prevented a financial meltdown a year ago – this $700 billion monument to political posturing should be shut down. This can be done in three easy steps: First, federal financial regulators should be called before Congress to explain why they did nothing before 2008 to stop the proliferation of toxic mortgage-backed securities; second, all outstanding TARP funds given to corporations should be returned with interest by a date certain; and third and most important, government-owned shares in companies that received TARP funds should be sold.
Bosch
November 24th, 2009
11:38 am
Dusty,
But sometimes enemies are inside.
El Jefe
November 24th, 2009
11:39 am
George W. Bush was not revered and the lefties think. He did plenty that p*ssed off the conservatives.
Compared to BHO, GBII should be shown only as a slightly tarnished knight on a gray horse.
Bill Clinton, after the republicans gained power turned out to be fairly conservative with the economy, he just gave the Chinese too much missile guidance technology, messed up our energy dependence and dallied with interns. That is beside lying under oath.
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
11:39 am
Bosch,
Inside of what?
Bosch
November 24th, 2009
11:41 am
Dusty,
Here. J/K
Sometimes we are our own enemy.
Matilda
November 24th, 2009
11:48 am
I have long thought that big business, not government, is what squashes small business. Isn’t that what anti-trust laws were about? When one big corporation eats up its competitors like Pac Man, there is less competition and fewer choices. That certainly doesn’t benefit the consumer OR the workforce! (Even with low low prices on cheap, foregin-made cr@p…) History has shown us that unchecked greed trumps the concept of self-regulation, and we can all see who really pays the price.
It’s time to return this country to the small businessmen and innovators. When Americans can pursue their dreams outside of corporate domination of our economy via the government favors they purchase, THEN we can see a “free market” that really works. And yes, health care reform is a necessarsy part of that!
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
11:52 am
Sometimes we are our own enemy.
Perhaps the freedom of democracy allows us the privilege of being our own enemy. It allows us to make good decisions on our own BUT it also allows us to make bad decisions. If it didn’t, we would be like Pavlov’s dogs. Make a move only by command from our superiors.
Is that what you want and expect? A perfect world? Something to work for, YES. But remember another old saying: You weren’t promised a rose garden.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 24th, 2009
11:52 am
We can do this, we should do this
even if…..
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=breaking+up+is+hard+to+do&search_type=&aq=0&oq=breaking+up
El Jefe
November 24th, 2009
11:53 am
Matilda,
Congress has a disdain for any business that it can’t influence or control. That is why they created Freddie and Fannie.
Government only like Big Business because of its deep pockets, like GE. Imagine if the CEO of GE was also on the transition team for BHO and on the board of the New York Federal Reserve. Wait, I don’t have to imagine.
getalife
November 24th, 2009
11:54 am
In China, they would be executed.
Here, they get bonuses with taxpayer money.
I like the “pro life” Chinese justice.
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
11:54 am
Redneck Convert an idiot????
I found this fairly brilliant – “…we could name the country the United States of IBM or Google or Morgan Stanley or Microsoft…”
Corporations control nearly every aspect of American life now.
Find a baseball park with out some company’s name plastered all over it. Even “bailed out” and scandal ridden one’s like the one those dolts in Mets uniforms go to watch.
Hell, even the Big 12 football championship trophy has Dr. Pepper splattered all over it. Or maybe you prefer the Phillips 66 Big 12 basketball championship trophy?
Disgusting.
These fascists that hide behind that giant American flag on Wall Street must be held accountable to the rule of law. The culpable must be jailed for their crimes. And they must be stopped from further ruining this great nation and millions of American families.
But the corporate lackey BHO is NOT the man to do so…
getalife
November 24th, 2009
11:58 am
Can we rendition them to China?
Basic premise, again!
November 24th, 2009
11:58 am
Dr. Adrian:
“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”
Tall
November 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Balance our Budget: Good points all around. The security blanket of increased regulation won’t stop people who have made up their minds to beat the system. If you haven’t already, read a book entitled “When Genius Failed”. The book is about the Long Term Capital Management disaster(a bit didactic, but good). The theme of poor risk management by corporate managements and unsuspecting regulators repeats itself 12 years after this book was published. Sadly, it will happen again.
getalife
November 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Can we waterboard them until they confess?
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
Man, it would be nice to be ultra-valorous and gracious like El Jefe!
He says, out of one side of his mouth, “GWB wasn’t revered…he PO’d many conservatives.”
YET inexplicably the army of El Jefes made not one single solitary peep during those disastrous eight years.
Not once. Ever.
And at the very end of that Reign of Error, they were STILL among the 20% or so who said that arguably the very worst administration in American history was doing a good job.
Their sudden rising from that peaceful slumber and the ensuing faux outrage happened exactly on noon on January 20, 2009.
And they wonder why their transparent opinions and inane input are so properly dismissed.
Or likely they don’t.
Either way, forgive me while I throw up…
getalife
November 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
w is back to fight regulations.
Dusty
November 24th, 2009
12:10 pm
Oh for Pete’s sake, not again!
Big business ir running and ruining this country!
This is a big country. We cannot run the country with only mon & pop stores. It takes big business to run bigger things. You want electrical power run by a twinkies company? You want communication run by people with two cans and a string? YOu want research and development in medicine run by the local doctor? It is not possible. You want an automobile put together at the auto repair shop?
It is fine to have a “stay small philosophy” but when realism hits, it cannot be done in a country the size of the USA. The reality of stock owners should regulate big business. Not the government if possible. The Justice Department should take care of criminals but that is the only duty assigned to government.
Turn big business over to the government? NO!!
FinnMcCool
November 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
The right is freaking out about the health care reform. And they should be. This is going to completely change the health care landscape for the better.
And the Republicans are on the wrong side of history on this one. The only chance they have is their hope that the US job situation doesn’t improve between now and next November.
@@
November 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
As usual, Obama and this congress are slow on the uptake. Now it’s this administration that fancies itself 2 Big 2 Fail.
Never fear, the American people will be cutting THEM down 2 size come 11/10.
El Jefe
November 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
AmVet,
Between over spending for medicare part d, the wide open borders, too timid on the war on terrorism, No Child left behind, and many others. GBII was not a real conservative, but a slightly right progressive.
Now tell me the wonderful things BHO has done?
getalife
November 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
dusty still does not accept her ideology collapsed the economy.
She will continue to blindly support w in fighting regulations.
Bless her poor little heart.
Poor thing.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 24th, 2009
12:16 pm
I don’t want anybody to have to go back and review posts from a year ago….
I expect folks to have enough class to admit if they were chanting let them fail a few months back.
It seems to me that if it was ok to let them fail a while back that standing against break up attempts might make one appear foolish.
breaking up the biggies
Paul
November 24th, 2009
12:16 pm
We gave them the rope, they hung themselves by doing that which was legal.
But they charged us for the rope. And the sendoff.
What’s to keep what happened from happening again? ABM had a good comment – don’t look solely at the House proposal, look at other stuff. I’m for both – whack’em with both. Time for the Congress to look out for the people, not the corporatists.
Now let’s see how much they bribe the Congressmen… I mean, contribute to… and how many lobbyists they hire to kill this.
Peadawg – my opinion – Redneck Convert provides more creative, original, thought-provoking subtle satire on a regular basis than almost anyone you could name.
Dusty – I liked your ‘ham it up comment.’ You can be real funny when you give in to your wild side!
Finn McCool
November 24th, 2009
12:17 pm
the Reid bill maintains virtually all of Baucus ideas’ for shifting the medical payment system away from today’s fee-for-service model toward an approach that more closely links compensation for providers to results for patients.
…links compensation for providers to results for patients.
Now, that’s what I’m talkin bout!!!
Finn McCool
November 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
ooops, link:
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/11/a_milestone_in_the_health_care_journey.php
Shawny
November 24th, 2009
12:26 pm
Scariest piece of this, “give the government vast new power”. Run, now. Less is more.
How have these entities grown as to have violated anti-trust and became monopolistic? Enforce existing controls, and layer additional regulation only when necessary.
AmVet
November 24th, 2009
12:27 pm
I’d like to know who you voted for in the past 30 years or so, Jefe who you thought was a “real” conservative.
There must be dozens you could list right? Dozens and dozens. I mean after all it has been an entire (bowel?) movement in DC!
These misnamed conservatives are like aliens, often supposedly seen but not one scintilla of proof they exist.
And you stood stupefyingly silent while the fake conservatives you voted for were steering this nation ever closer to the rocks.
Almost from the very get go, W was a disaster. That you had neither the acumen to realize it or the testicular fortitude to admit it is immaterial…