We can’t keep going on like this….

To Jackie:

Well, I have worked union, non-union and I’ve been in the military. The union sucks by comparison.

Keep reading …….. you’ll figure out what Vessey meant:

“The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of Marines. Lord, how they could fight!”
MGen. Frank E. Lowe, USA; Korea, 26 January 1952

“I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!”
General of the Armies Douglas MacArthur; Korea, 21 September 1950

“There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.”
Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

“Lying offshore, ready to act, the presence of ships and Marines sometimes means much more than just having air power or ship’s fire, when it comes to deterring a crisis. And the ships and Marines may not have to do anything but lie offshore. It is hard to lie offshore with a C-141 or C-130 full of airborne troops.”
Gen. Colin Powell, U. S. Army
Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff
During Operation Desert Storm

“The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.”
Gen. John “Black Jack” Pershing, U.S. Army
Commander of American Forces in World War I

“Do not attack the First Marine Division. Leave the yellowlegs alone. Strike the American Army.”
Orders given to Communist troops in the Korean War;
shortly afterward, the Marines were ordered
to not wear their khaki leggings.

“If I had one more division like this First Marine Division I could win this war.”
General of the Armies Douglas McArthur in Korea

…………. not don’t get your fatigues in a wad ….. I’m just messin with ya !

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Bruno,

I told you clearly at 10:34 that neither of them said what you had claimed and you’ve not given a single cite of where they did. That’s your MO and it’s quite transparent as are you and your motivations. Would you care to offer a single example of my making an argument using or claiming a literal interpretation of the Bible?

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AmVet

Oh yes. MACs break. But with me there are two givens: I can play a thousand lottery tries and I won’t get a single number . . . ever, and I can break computers while I am still in the parking lot.

jackie

You keep saying that Union workers work with the tools they are given. They also work with the addictions they posses, the fatigue from partying all night and boredom from having to do the same thing all day, for 5/7th of their entire life. Automated plants turn out much better, better built and much more dependable cars. Have you been to Detroit lately? How’s that Union controlled town doing?

Getaclue

Hiroshima was ordered by a president that belongs to the same party that is pro-abortion. That would be the party that you support.

Perhaps this would be a good time to start reading a little history.

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All I’m going to say B, is that my experience is almost identical.

But on a much better note…

I reached out to NIF one Friday night a few weeks ago about some tasty stuff he put up. (Yes?) He accepted the olive leaf. This after we had gotten off to a horrible start.

He is one really bright guy and I dig that. And I know it sounds elitist, but I can recognize it when I see it.

And this rapprochement is good for both of us. And this forum, I believe.

I also believe you are the genesis for this.

And I still contend I can learn more from him (and you) that from ten others who feel, think and believe more like me…

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md,

I might tend to agree with your 11:22 but I opened the page and saw that I was supposedly saying that abortion should be illegal and some form of Christianity should be made the law of the land. It’s kind of hard to enter that “debate” in a point/counter point manner when I hadn’t even been here commenting on anything.

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Great game on Monday Night Football.

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“He accepted the olive leaf. This after we had gotten off to a horrible start. He is one really bright guy and I dig that. And I know it sounds elitist, but I can recognize it when I see it.”

I blogged with NIF for a few years prior to here at W2W. He is a bright guy with a broad knowledge/experience base. He does take some seemingly “hard-line” stances at times and likes to insult liberals, but in the end it’s kind of a smokescreen for the real reason he’s here which is simply fellowship and conversation.

Catch you later Am.

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@Common Sense

The Marines have done well and you should be proud to be a member of the Corps.
On the other hand, being in the Army means I am just as proud of my association.

We could both point out many things that we could use as points of pride.

@NIF

You are speaking as if all workers and all product produced were defective.
If one looks at the rework and scrap rate of the American worker and compare that to those of foreign workers, I would be willing to wager the American worker comes out ahead.

To extrapolate as you are currently doing does nothing to further your point. Show a comparative analysis of the American product to that of its competition and point out how many union workers engineered that product. Would be a much better comparative analysis as opposed to your use truism and anecdotes.

Automation turns out better cars, but, how do you get the machines to spend money in the economy? Leaves you in a quandary, does it not?

So, work on extrapolating that point and see what you can come up with that helps the economy and the American worker?

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It will not be tolerated again.

Do I have that olive “leaf?” right ShamVet?

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Good Morning Campers….a little reading assisgnment……

Health Insurance Reform and Georgia: The Case for Change
The health care status quo is not an option for our states. If we do nothing, by 2019 the number of uninsured people will grow by more than 30 percent in 29 states and by at least 10 percent in every state. The amount of uncompensated care provided will more than double in 45 states. Businesses in 27 states will see their premiums more than double. And fewer people will have coverage through an employer.1 The time for health insurance reform is now.

Under reform in Georgia:

•1.7 million residents who do not currently have insurance and 387,000 residents who have nongroup insurance could get affordable coverage through the health insurance exchange.
•897,000 residents could qualify for premium tax credits to help them purchase health coverage.
•1.1 million seniors would receive free preventive services.
•203,000 seniors would have their brand-name drug costs in the Medicare Part D “doughnut hole” halved.
•106,000 small businesses could be helped by a small business tax credit to make premiums more affordable.
Health Insurance Reform Provides Early Relief and Health Security.
Proposals implemented in 2010 and 2011 will produce real benefits for:

•Families: The 9.7 million residents of Georgia will benefit as reform:
◦Ensures consumer protections in the insurance market. Insurance companies will no longer be able to place lifetime limits on the coverage they provide, use of annual limits will be restricted, and they will not be able to arbitrarily drop coverage.
◦Creates immediate options for people who can’t get insurance today. 10 percent of people in Georgia have diabetes2, and 30 percent have high blood pressure3 – two conditions that insurance companies could use as a reason to deny health insurance coverage. Reform will establish a high-risk pool to enable people who cannot get insurance today to find an affordable health plan.
◦Ensures free preventive services. 38 percent of Georgia residents have not had a colorectal cancer screening, and 17 percent of women over 50 have not had a mammogram in the past two years.4 Health insurance reform will ensure that people can access preventive services for free through their health plans. It will also invest in a prevention and public health fund to encourage prevention and wellness programs.
◦Supports health coverage for early retirees. An estimated 157,000 people from Georgia have early retiree coverage through their former employers, but early retiree coverage has eroded over time.5 A reinsurance program would stabilize early retiree coverage and provide premium relief to both early retirees and the workers in the firms that provide their health benefits. This could save families up to $1,200 on premiums.
•Seniors: Georgia’s 1.1 million Medicare beneficiaries6 will benefit as reform:
◦Lowers premiums by reducing Medicare’s overpayments to private plans. All Medicare beneficiaries pay the price of excessive overpayments through higher premiums – even the 87 percent of seniors in Georgia who are not enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan.7 A typical couple in traditional Medicare will pay nearly $90 in additional Medicare premiums next year to subsidize these private plans.8 Health insurance reform clamps down on these excessive payments.
◦Reduces prescription drug spending. Roughly 203,000 Medicare beneficiaries in Georgia hit the “doughnut hole,” or gap in Medicare Part D drug coverage that can cost some seniors an average of $4,080 per year.9 Reform legislation will provide a 50 percent discount for brand-name drugs in this coverage gap.
◦Covers free preventive services. Currently, seniors in Medicare must pay part of the cost of many preventive services on their own. For a colonoscopy that costs $707, this means that a senior must pay $16410 – a price that can be prohibitively expensive. Under reform, a senior will not pay anything for that colonoscopy, or for any other recommended preventive service. A senior will also get free annual wellness visits to his or her provider, with a personalized prevention plan to remain in good health.
•Small businesses: While small businesses make up 74 percent of Georgia’s businesses, only 38 percent of them offered health coverage benefits in 2008.11 106,000 small businesses in Georgia could be helped by a small businesses tax credit proposal that makes premiums more affordable.12 And these small businesses would be exempt from any employer responsibility provisions.
•States: State budgets will be relieved from rising health care costs as reform:
◦Reduces state employee premiums. Coverage would immediately be expanded to the uninsured, decreasing the amount of uncompensated care costs that gets shifted to the premiums of state employees. For states that provide early retiree health benefits to their state employees, a reinsurance program would provide premium relief of up to $1,200 per family policy per year for all employees.
◦Reduces uncompensated care. Right now, providers in Georgia lose $1.7 billion in uncompensated care each year,13 which states subsidize at least in part. Instead, under reform, uncompensated care would begin to be reduced immediately as more uninsured people gain coverage.
Health Insurance Reform Provides Stability, Security, and Choice.

•Provides relief from rising health care costs.
◦Ends the “hidden tax”. The $1.7 billion spent on uncompensated care in Georgia often gets passed along to families in the form of a hidden premium “tax”.14 By expanding coverage to the uninsured, health insurance reform will eliminate this burden on people who already have insurance.
◦Provides premium tax credits. Without reform, individuals and families in Georgia will spend increasing amounts of money out-of-pocket to cover premiums, deductibles, and co-payments, from $9.6 billion today to up to $17.1 billion in 2019.15 Through health insurance reform, 897,000 million Georgia residents could be eligible for premium credits to ease the burden of these high costs.16
•Promotes health insurance portability and choice. Health insurance reform establishes a health insurance exchange that will provide individuals with a wide variety of choices and ensure that they will always have coverage, whether they change jobs, lose a job, move or get sick.
◦Currently 1.7 million residents of Georgia do not have health insurance, and if nothing is done, by 2019 this population could swell to 2.4 million. The exchange will help the uninsured to obtain needed coverage and will also help the 387,000 Georgia residents who currently purchase insurance in the individual insurance market to get quality coverage at an affordable price.17
•Supports long-term home and community based services: It is estimated that 65 percent of those who are 65 today will spend some time at home in need of long-term care services,18 which typically cost almost $18,000 per year.19 This means that 665,000 older residents of Georgia who are aged 55 to 64 today will need home health services after they turn 6520 – services that are not always covered by Medicare, Medicaid, or private health insurance.
◦Health insurance reform will create a new voluntary long-term care services insurance program, which will provide a cash benefit to help seniors and people with disabilities obtain services and supports that will enable them to remain in their homes and communities.
◦Reform will encourage states to expand their home and community based services through Medicaid by providing enhanced funding, and it will create a program to provide community support services for disabled Medicaid enrollees who would otherwise need to be in a nursing home. These programs could help improve care for many of the 265,000 disabled Medicaid beneficiaries in Georgia.21
Health Insurance Reform Improves Quality and Reforms the Delivery System.

•Reduces preventable readmissions. The current health care system does not place enough emphasis on improving quality of care. For example, nearly 20 percent of Medicare patients who are discharged from the hospital end up being readmitted within 30 days.22 For Georgia, that’s 66,100 readmissions each year which could potentially be prevented with improved care coordination.23 Health insurance reform will invest in innovations in primary care and will provide financial incentives to hospitals to better coordinate care at discharge to avoid preventable readmissions.
•Lessens Paperwork. Physicians spend on average about 140 hours and $68,000 a year just dealing with health insurance bureaucracy.24 For the 23,489 physicians in Georgia, this adds up to 3.3 million hours and $1.6 billion in costs.25 By simplifying and standardizing paperwork and computerizing medical records, doctors will be able to focus on caring for their patients instead of dealing with bureaucracy.
•Incentivizes primary care. Roughly 9,500 doctors in Georgia practice primary care and would qualify for a new 5 to 10 percent payment bonus under health insurance reform.26
•Invests in the health primary care. Approximately 1.5 million people, or 15 percent of Georgia’s population, cannot access a primary care provider due to shortages in their communities.27 Health insurance reform will expand and improve programs to increase the number of health care providers, including doctors, nurses, and dentists, especially in rural and other underserved areas.

http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/statehealthreform/georgia.html

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and for extra credit…..

Over the weekend, Roll Call ran an online item, explaining, “With the Senate preparing to vote Saturday on whether to consider a $848 billion health care overhaul bill, national Democrats on Friday launched a rapid response system aimed at blunting each GOP criticism of the bill.”

I have to say, the DNC’s rapid-response fact-checking was pretty damn impressive. I lost count of how many alerts hit my inbox during the debate, but just about every time a Republican senator would make an appearance — on the Senate floor or on one of the cable networks — another alert went out, pointing to his/her demonstrable falsehoods. Late yesterday, the DNC posted the entire package of fact-checking items, which serves as a timeline of sorts, chronicling each bogus claim as it was made.

But let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. Looking over the rapid-response list, the efficiency of the DNC operation is impressive, but the key takeaway is more important: Good lord, Republicans sure do lie a lot about health care.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_11/021131.php

Y’all be nice to each other today…..

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“Liberals on this site (there are always exceptions) are MUCH more likely to engage in name calling/ranting vs. tough debate.”

Do unto others and all that… When faced with red faced screaming conservatives, one can’t reason with them, that would be a fool’s errand, and I guess I’m just not christian enough to turn the other cheek, or maybe it’s that I’m simply practicing Andy’s version of “christianity” in engaging in this kind of behaviour…

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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Rightwing Troll

**I do apologize, however, for pointing it out that I have job that takes me places and allows me to go pl;aces and see things most people don’t get do and see… In light of the fact you apparently don’t have a job and spend your entire days in your mom’s basement fighting the good fight (and blogging about football games) here on JB’s libural blog…**

Well, as long as you are doing OK, I feel much better.

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I see Pres Obama has finally decided on a new strategy in Afghanistan. The article didn’t say what it was, though. He’ll let us know in a week. But it involves sending 34,000 more troops. It’ll include markers when he’ll decide to continue, stop, or pull back the deployments.

But nothing on what this months and months of waiting to decide has resulted in. Except sending 34,000 troops to implement it.

15 more Americans died this month in Afghanistan.

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TnGelding

Still can’t offer any sort of logical debate, I see.

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Paul

November 24th, 2009
7:08 am

And if he sends more troops even more will die. More grunts hurrying and scurrying about to pick off. Those 15 would have died regardless, since they were already there under perilous conditions.

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TnGuilding

**Those 15 would have died regardless,**

Yet another liberal sage that not only knows everything about the past and the future, but also knows everything about every option that could have been taken. You must clean up in the Stock Market and Sports betting.

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TnGelding

Yup. I’m really, really looking forward to hearing how the months and months of deciding time led to something really different than what he announced in March. Or maybe there’s no real change and it took him that long to decide he already had the option he wanted?

What is this, ‘No Change We Can Believe In’?

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Nothing Is Free

November 24th, 2009
7:14 am

How do you know I haven’t? You happened to hit on my two main interests, although I have “retired” from gambling on sports.

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TnGuilding

This would be a great time for you to leave. Have a great day, yourself.

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Paul

November 24th, 2009
7:15 am

At least he isn’t using a two-headed coin like his predecessor. I’ve thought all along he was looking for good reasons not to send more troops and to begin a drawdown. We’ll see.

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Rightwing Troll

It is good that you have conceded your point and are now wanting to discuss another issue. i thought it was a little bone headed of you to claim that no one’s life has ben changed under the incompetence of obozo. It certainly didn’t take much to veer you off subject.

How is that cappuccino installation business. Sounds really exciting.

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At what point do we stop blaming Bush and start holding Obama and Congress accountable?

Just wondering…

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NIF, Ideally I would like them tried as you or I would be tried. Give them every chance at a defense and if necessary, a platform to speak as to why they did what they did. Then afer they are found guilty (and I do believe they will be, unless the prosecuters are the same ones that tried O.J.), to sentence them to life without parole with hard labor.

We do not want to execute them because that would make martyrs out of them.

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TnGelding

My impression was Pres Bush treated Afg as pretty much a holding action – even when Taliban resurged it wasn’t a threat to the central government. Then Iraq stabilized, Pres Obama inherited and accepted Bush Administration’s Iraq draw-down schedule. Then the Bush Administration did an Afghan review, presented it to the incoming administration who said “okay, sounds good” then the troop bill hit and they said ‘wait a minute…”

Now after months they’ve announced more tens of thousands. Hopefully an new strategy’s in the mix, but we’ll see. But back to your post, what does this mean, that Pres Obama couldn’t find any good reasons to not send more troops and begin a drawdown? From what I read (AP) this morning he seems to be putting a lot of stock in a stable central government. At the same time SecState Clinton’s talking about Taliban involvement in the government.

Well, I suppose tossing out his predecessor’s two-headed coin and using a five-headed coin does give him more options?

Normal

Well, we’ve been packing up for the Thanksgiving family get together. It’ll be a mad day of prep tomorrow!

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Joe, I will always blame Bush all the way back to Reagan and I am holding President Obama resposible for his actions. The jury is still out for me about his reactions as to what he had inherited.

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joe matarotz

When the media finally calls them on it and/or when it stops working for them?

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Normal

No, just heading south a couple hundred miles. Easy trip. We’ve simplified the menu the last couple of years, same with Christmas dinners. More emphasis on the families and being together. Oh, and more emphasis on the margaritas. And wines!

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NIF, another thing about the trial I forgot to mention. And forgive me in advance, for I have no typing skills, I’m a two finger puncher.

The trial must be broadcast for all to see, world wide. The fact that we would be open about it would prove our sincerity to want due process.

Like I said before, this will go a long way to win “hearts and minds”.

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Paul, ah yes, sweet simplicity. Toss back a merlot for me.

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This is a pretty sobering assessment from the Germans of the Obama Administration’s initial approach and hopes. Less than a year in isn’t too soon to begin a change in course.

BTW – can you imagine a lead paragraph like this in the NY Times or the NBC Nightly News?

“When he entered office, US President Barack Obama promised to inject US foreign policy with a new tone of respect and diplomacy. His recent trip to Asia, however, showed that it’s not working. A shift to Bush-style bluntness may be coming.”

followed by

“Upon taking office, Obama said that he wanted to listen to the world, promising respect instead of arrogance. But Obama’s currency isn’t as strong as he had believed. Everyone wants respect, but hardly anyone is willing to pay for it. Interests, not emotions, dominate the world of realpolitik. The Asia trip revealed the limits of Washington’s new foreign policy: Although Obama did not lose face in China and Japan, he did appear to have lost some of his initial stature.”

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,662822,00.html

I believe it was Kissinger who said something along the lines that nations don’t have friends, they have shared interests.

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Normal

I’d be happy to!

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Normal

The trials will be in Federal Court. Cameras aren’t allowed in Federal court.

But don’t worry. The terrorists will get their message out, loud and clear.

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NIF, I don’t think that support of Isreal is a given any more, especially with this Administration, and exceptions can be made to cameras in Federal court.

There still are Middle easterners out there how have not made up their minds about us. Those ate the ones who would love to watch. I think that if we try them in closed court, it will just look like a Irani revenge court, like they did with the protesters, and we will have lost an opportunity to show what we are made of.

The terrorists will get their message out, loud and clear.

I’m not sure what you mean about this, but if it means that you worry that the Terrorists will try to disrupt the trial or bomb us again, then
I don’t know what to say. I have never let other peoples threats, whether, school bullies or Taliban, sway me one iota as to what I will do or where I will go. I do not fear them.

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Agnes, or when we do win their hearts and minds, will we insist they become Christians? That tripe works both ways.

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We will never win their hearts and minds if we persist in telling them that their “truth” is wrong. Does the koran actually tell islamists that infidels must die?

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We’ll never win their hearts and minds….. at least until we figure out how we are going to pay for it!

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Normal

November 24th, 2009
8:06 am

Christians do not kill mooslims if they refuse to convert. Perhaps you were unaware of that fact.

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We’re faced with a staggering debt and what should we do? …. I got it! How about a multi-trillion socialized healthcare program?

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Normal’s tripe;
You assume I am a Christian. I am not. And according to posts by you, you are not a Christian. Want to try again?

Indirectly related to your post; I ate tripe fairly often as a child. My Mama love it. I thought it was better that not eating.

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Appears Liberhole is gonna be the lone-holdout on this OboboCare debacle. He may well be our Saviour and send OboboCare into the toilet where it belongs.

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NIF

Another uncomfortable truth: “this administration has already made it clear that these men will never be set free.”

Indefinite detention for alleged crimes? Didn’t we have, oh, one or two, at the most, mild criticisms of the Bush Administration over this, hmmmm?

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mmm, mmm, mmm….

RASMUSSEN:
Obama Poll Drops to New Low: -15
Strongly Approve 27%
Strongly Disapprove 42%
Total Approval 45%

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Say whaaattttt????

Bruno — The bottom line, Am, is that you never once tried to dissuade me from forming a blog friendship with any of them despite past grievances, but they definitely made it a point to question/insult my blog friendship with you.

Initially, you began by engaging me with your music dedications. Then…as is oft the case, you moved to telling me what a great guy you thought AmVet was….that I should give him a listen. My response was “No thanks!”

I also said you were free to enjoy his online company if you wanted….just don’t try to pull me into the AmVet’s great club ’cause I know better. I said the same thing to NIF….he’s not getting all girlie about it.

BTW, you’re wrong about how I interpret the scriptures and you’re wrong about my overall stance on abortion.

For the first time in years…YEARS, I’m telling YOU, I had a nightmare last night. I was being pursued by some nut. Interpretation? It was YOU, who was pursuing me, Bruno. I should have never told you a lived two miles from the Fayette County line. It’s a long county line though….happy hunting, dude!

Weirdo!

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Climate “change” is about as real as the hope and “change” promised by Private Obama. Just pulled from the web:

“It was announced Thursday afternoon that computer hackers had obtained 160 megabytes of e-mails from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA) in England. Those e-mails involved communication among many scientific researchers and policy advocates with similar ideological positions all across the world. Those purported authorities were brazenly discussing the destruction and hiding of data that did not support global-warming claims.

Professor Phil Jones, the head of the Climate Research Unit, and professor Michael E. Mann at Pennsylvania State University, who has been an important scientist in the climate debate, have come under particular scrutiny. Among his e-mails, Mr. Jones talked to Mr. Mann about the “trick of adding in the real temps to each series … to hide the decline [in temperature].”"

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There is a big difference in our courts between “not guilty” and “innocent”. We see a lot of “not guilty” criminals walk free because the case is not solid enough or a technicality of the law voids the case. It doesn’t mean they did not do the deed.

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“Inhofe Says He Will Call for Investigation on “Climategate” on Washington Times Americas Morning Show”

I wonder if Al Gore could head that panel.

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Normal

[[If we allowed the government to hold innocent men]]

Isn’t there a difference between ‘innocent’ (didn’t do it) and being found ‘not guilty’ (the prosecution couldn’t prove it’s case that they were guilty) and being guilty of what was charged, but released nonetheless because of procedural errors?

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NIF 8:37

I think it’s more blind partisanship. Refusing to see similarities in the administration of one they detest and one they adore. It’s all so personalized and people somehow refuse to admit to any shortcoming, any mistake, especially if it’s the same mistake or shortcoming as one exhibited by the predecessor they condemned just months before.

your 8:44 – Holder’s said they have enough for a conviction without that. We’ll see. And you are correct – after Obama became President and Holder became AG the defendants, at Gitmo, said they wanted to plead guilty before a military tribunal and looked forward to their martyrdom.

But the Obama administration said, ‘no, we want to bring you to NYC and charge you in criminal court where we know you’ll plead not guilty.”

Absoflippinlutely amazing.

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It is no joke. That $12 trillion will have to be paid back by future generations who will have received little benefit from the stimulus. And who knows. Maybe in 20 years it will be $50 trillion. Or a hundred…

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