Democratic senators stay with Reid… so far
Another big step cleared, apparently.
Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) appears to have secured the 60 votes needed to move an $848 billion health-care reform bill to the Senate floor for debate.
After days of indecision, Sen. Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) — the final Democratic holdout — announced Saturday afternoon that she has decided to support a procedural motion to break a GOP filibuster. Reid now expects all 60 members of his caucus to vote yes at 8 p.m. Saturday, clearing the way for amendment deliberations to begin after the Thanksgiving recess….
Two other undecided Democrats, Sens. Ben Nelson (Neb.) and Mary Landrieu (La.), also announced their support in the final hours before the Saturday vote.
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740 comments Add your comment
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
9:10 am
The best thing that could happen for the country would be a return of balance next year by a Republican takeover of the senate or house.
Wait just a cotton pickin moment fellas!
On the surface that all sounds very reasoned and reasonable.
BUT… if by that you mean restacking the Congressional deck with neo-cons and chickenhawks, BushCo apologists and acolytes, NO friggin thanks.
Show me a new cadre of young, capable GOPers (and how about a few vets, huh, Big Tenters?) who would stand up and forcefully denounce all of the neo-con blunders, “policies”, etc and forswear to drive the hijacked GOP in a new direction?
A direction not predicated on the 1950s?
Hell yeah, I’d vote for guys like that.
But TRUST ME, that is NOT what you’re going to see next year…
Normal
November 23rd, 2009
9:13 am
AmVet, after reading your explaination, all I can say is I musta been blinded by the shine…
Curious Observer
November 23rd, 2009
9:30 am
The best thing that could happen for the country would be a return of balance next year by a Republican takeover of the senate or house.
Just what we need–another shutdown of the federal government for show, a la Newt Gingrich. Thanks, but we don’t need another Contract on America, nor do we need more tax cuts for the wealthiest among us.
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
9:31 am
Normal, it is easily done.
BHO is just the latest example of where style is more valued than substance in politics.
He looks good, he is eloquent, he is clearly very bright – which is in and of itself a big change from his predecessor – but in spite of the flowery rhetoric, he offers almost NO HOPE & CHANGE.
And last fall, I said so.
I am still amazed that these neo-cons don’t like this guy! (Actually I am not. That would require some basic integrity and intellectual honesty.)
He has kept NUMEROUS George of the Bungle policies in place – the fascistic suspension of habeus corpus, GITMO, using other fascists in American corporations to spy on Americans, and on and on.
The other part of this equation – in addition to the addled conned without ANY ability to accurately assess a politician correctly – is how the blacks in the nation fell for his b&llsh^t.
He is not going to help the bottom one hundred million Americans virtually at all…
He owes his soul to the company store (in the WORST kind of way)…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpTJg2EBpw&feature=related
TW
November 23rd, 2009
9:31 am
AmVet – totally agree…the legitimate conservative voice should be an integral part of our country’s debate.
But it sold it’s soul when it embrace ‘w’s credit card economy, and then climbed in bed with simple sarah’s cadre of smoke and mirrors.
And now the right is nothing but a flea infestation for having laid with those dogs.
Those at greatest fault for the impending liberal tsunami are the so-called ‘keepers’ of the conservative voice for the last decade.
Both the stimulus and the health care bill ought have the smiling face of carl rove atop them both
Joey
November 23rd, 2009
9:37 am
“legitimate conservative voice”
And who determines what or who’s voice is legitimately conservative?”
No surprise, it is Progressive/Liberal voices combined with the Left Wing of our Media.
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
9:39 am
The ONLY silver lining to this debauched, fake conservative ideology is the electoral humiliation that ensued after Americans finally woke up to George of the Bungle and his deadly thugs.
And still I cannot quite comprehend that a major political party in this country can LOSE 94% OF ALL THE NATIONAL RACES in two straight elections.
As I’ve noted before, a reverse DiMaggio like “accomplishment” that will never be seen again…
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
9:44 am
Joey, good point.
But ONLY because the Republicans themselves have defaulted on that responsibility. (Among innumerable others it would seem.)
At least to the point where reasonable people don’t bust out laughing out loud at their “definition”.
I would certainly be embarrassed if I was one of them and had to satisfy that question.
At this point in our history, they are as confused and conflicted as a petulant, self obsessed fourteen year old brat that can’t figure out why nobody likes her.
And accordingly their future looks pretty awful.
Selah…
Joey
November 23rd, 2009
9:53 am
AmVet:
I must conclude that you do not see me or any of the other non-Progressive poster here as reasonable people.
We do listen, hear, read, comprehend and make decision based on what we learn and know.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 23rd, 2009
9:53 am
Not that it matters politically because obviously she’s a female Republican dunce and he’s a male Democrat genius.
But Sarah Palin’s poll numbers are strengthening.
And Barack Obama’s are sliding.
Guess what? They’re about to meet in the 40’s.
Over the weekend, that following flocked to Roanoke, Virginia’s Barnes & Noble store, where Palin held a book signing Sunday for her new book, “Going Rogue.”
But the festivities turned into much more than just a book signing: Fans began lining up more than 24 hours prior to Palin’s visit.
Cue the psychotics.
jconservative
November 23rd, 2009
9:55 am
TW at 9:31 am.
Lot of truth in your comment. I would take the problem back even further. We inaugurated a new president in 1981 & the national debt was $960 billion. The first thing that president did was increase spending while cutting taxes, income down, spending up. And except for a two year hiatus under Clinton/Republican congress, that has been what has happened every year since 1981. Today the national debt is $12 Trillion.
You can cut taxes & cut spending. You can increase spending & increase taxes. But you cannot increase spending & cut taxes.
Now we have an electorate that will not allow government spending to be cut. Oh, they might stop “new” spending, but they will not cut the programs already on the books. And that same electorate will not allow an increase in taxes to pay for those programs already on the books.
In 1981 we, as a nation, decided to allow our kids & grand kids to pay for an increase in our personal income. That increase in personal income came from tax cuts. And to emphasize the decision we made, we re-elected that president by giving him 49 of 50 states.
Will any of you vote for a candidate for president who promises to:
1 – Cut spending
2 – Increase taxes
3 – Pay off the national debt
No you will not – Mondale ran on just that & carried one state.
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
9:57 am
Joey, again a valid point.
So please do help me understand what and who is “legitimately conservative”?
Seriously.
I have been trying to get to the bottom of this for a long time…
Angry Black Man
November 23rd, 2009
9:58 am
G’morning all
If there were a third party of centrist to spring forward in 2010 and balance out Congress, I think we could get something done. A Republican/Conservative takeover will only give the same result as jerking the steering wheel to the right to overcompensate for drifting into the median on the left. We’ll only end up in the ditch on the right.
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:01 am
Normal,
You call our professional military prosecutors a kangaroo court and claim that a civilian court is the way to prove to the world how great our justice system is. Are you aware that the President has said that these guys will never be set free even if exonerated in the New York courtroom?
I think you’ve got a pretty warped view of what constitutes a kangaroo court.
Angry Black Man
November 23rd, 2009
10:04 am
jconservative @ 9:55
Bravo and polite golf clap!!
Normal
November 23rd, 2009
10:04 am
“But the festivities turned into much more than just a book signing: Fans began lining up more than 24 hours prior to Palin’s visit.”
I was at a bookstore this weekend and they had Sarah’s book on display. I was sorta surprised at how many people were perusing it. I mentioned that to my wife and a guy who was reading the book, said something like, he had to look at it much in the same way he has to slow down and look at a car wreak. Just morbid curiosity.
Further along in our chat, he offered that all of the people who show up for her signings are the same ones who would show up to see a baby panda. They just want to be entertained. I don’t know, you decide…
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:07 am
Good morning ABM,
I wholeheartedly disagree with your 9:58. Balancing a radical leftist with a few moderates only serves to slow the journey into the abyss. Things are so far left now we need a strong conservative power base in some area of government just to get anywhere near the center.
Normal
November 23rd, 2009
10:09 am
RW, I don’t think you understand the “Big Picture” here. By treating these men to the same justice system that we would want, we are proving that we are not just looking for revenge or out to make martyrs out of them. I think, in the long run, will do more to help us win “hearts and minds”, than our troops on the ground ever could.
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:09 am
Normal,
How many people do you see lined up at the street corner waiting 24 hours in advance to see a car wreck?
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 23rd, 2009
10:10 am
Google up $13.00 per share this a.m.
ADP up 79 cents per share this a.m.
Any of you get in on this action I posted weeks ago?
Awww…I thought so!
MO MONEY, MO MONEY, MO MONEY!!!
Joey
November 23rd, 2009
10:11 am
“Legitimately Conservative”
AmVet;
That is your label, not mine.
If you want to define it and select people who qualify, please proceed.
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
10:11 am
Normal, the entire political system I referenced above – style over substance – reeks of one step removed from American idol.
Entertainment for the vapid and vacuous. All fueled by HUGE money and the self-serving interests therein…
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:11 am
Normal, @ 10:09,
The President said we’ll keep them in custody forever even if they’re found not guilty. How does that help us win “hearts and minds”
TW
November 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
jconservative – very well stated.
But is not extending the payment to our children just a manifestation of the credit mentality? A mentality fostered by our capitalistic model as it feeds upon the lazy (both right and left) America we’ve become?
After all, it seems to me that the lazy/sorriness of the self-proclaimed ‘non-liberal’ has surmounted the fabricated number they claim to be the recipients of their ‘welfare,’ thus broadening the base for the credit-seeking moron to historical proportions.
Go to Walmart in Canton this weekend.
Angry Black Man
November 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
Let’s see if we can learn anything about past accomplishments or mistakes today:
Today in history:
1992 – 10,000,000 cellular telephone sold
1991 – A day before he dies, Freddie Mercury, 45, confirms he has AIDS
1985 – 58 die as Egyptian commandos storm hijack Egyptair jet in Malta
1984 – Boston College QB Doug Flutie passes (472 yards), including game ending 48 yard TD (Hail Mary Pass) to end game & beat Miami 47-45
1979 – Pink Floyd’s “The Wall” released, sells 6 million copies in 2 weeks
1971 – China People’s Republic seated in UN Security Council
1963 – JFK’s body, lay in repose in East Room of White House
1963 – “Doctor Who,” the long-running British sci-fi series debuts in England
1954 – For the first time, the Dow Jones Industrial Average closes above the peak it reached just before the 1929 crash.
1947 – Wash Redskin Sammy Baugh passes for 6 touchdowns vs Chi Cards (45-21)
1943 – US forces take control of Tarawa, Gilbert Island & Makin from Japanese
1942 – German 4th & 6th Army surrounded at Stalingrad
1936 – Life magazine hit newsstands
1921 – Pres Harding signs Willis Campell Act (anti-beer bill) forbidding doctors prescribing beer or liquor for medicinal purposes
1889 – Debut of 1st jukebox (Palais Royale Saloon, San Francisco)
1887 – Notre Dame loses its 1st football game 8-0 to Michigan (See it’s not all Charlie Weiss’ fault)
1869 – In Dumbarton, Scotland, the clipper Cutty Sark is launched – one of the last clippers ever to be built, and the only one still surviving to this day.
1864 – -25] Battle at Ball’s Ferry Georgia (30 casualties)
1765 – People of Frederick County Md refuse to pay England’s Stamp tax (The originators of the Tea Parties)
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:15 am
I’ll take 1984. One shouldn’t be calling a football play a “Hail Mary” pass when the participants are from a Catholic School.
@@
November 23rd, 2009
10:17 am
Dennis Moore (D) won’t seek re-election
I guess we’ll just have to wait to hear it from the donkey’s mouth, but “The Kansas City Star’s” speculating that this may be the reason he’s leaving:
All told The Kansas City Star that they believed Moore, who won his last race 56 to 40 percent over Jordan, was in trouble because of his support for many of President Barack Obama’s initiatives, including the stimulus package and health care reform.
“He’s very vulnerable,” O’Hara said. “He’s become a voting machine for the liberal wing of the Democratic Party.”
It’s a slow death of the liberal left. It’s what I’ve been waiting for.
TW
November 23rd, 2009
10:19 am
Joey – a good start might be some reading on a guy named William Buckley…
Angry Black Man
November 23rd, 2009
10:20 am
Excellent point RW.
Paul
November 23rd, 2009
10:20 am
G’morning, Normal
I have to agree with RW-(the original) on this. To assert the military justice system, specifically the tribunal rules established for these combatants, with guidance from the Court and put into practice by Congress and the Executive, doesn’t follow ‘due process; is a bit off.
In fact, given Congress toiled so long, adjusting as the Supremes kept coming up with new guidance, to establish the commissions, then Pres Obama did an Executive Power Play (in the manner of all those Bush fascist dictator power grabs, etc etc etc) – well, if it wasn’t all politics a few years back we’d have heard the same from the Congress, not meek acquiescence.
And regarding Palin’s book, do you have any idea how many more people would’ve been perusing it if, instead of calling it “Going Rogue” she’d have called it “Going Commando”?
Gale
November 23rd, 2009
10:22 am
1984 comment from the non-sports fan. I read that twice thinking, “A 472 yard pass?!. Wow!
RW-(the original)
November 23rd, 2009
10:24 am
Jay B finally built a room upstairs……
AmVet
November 23rd, 2009
10:28 am
“Legitimately Conservative”
AmVet;
That is your label, not mine.
Joey, sorry, but that is factually incorrect.
Otherwise please cite.
At 9:57 I quoted you – “legitimate conservative voice” And who determines what or who’s voice is legitimately conservative?” – at 9:37.
Enough parsing and evasion though.
Again, in your estimation who are these “legitimately conservative” people and what exactly do they posit to warrant such a claim?
Surely out of this great “movement” you could name a dozen or two off the top of your head and with some limited effort explain why they are so labeled?
How about two or three for starters?
Again, I am just curious about this over(mis?)used term…
Paul
November 23rd, 2009
10:31 am
Normal
[[By treating these men to the same justice system that we would want,]]
These guys never fell into any of the protections from the start – what we’ve done is thru necessity on our part. No one at the start made a serious case these guys were entitled to full US Constitutional protections (warrants, Miranda, etc). But their very status, lack of uniforms, not being part of a national military force or signatories, they were not entitled to Geneve protections. So the Bush administration (and now the Obama administration) have made bungled attempts to harmonize existing systems rather than come up with something original.
But back to your earlier point, we’d want anything that wasn’t common practice before (execution out of hand for those in civilian clothes conducting military operations and killing civilians). The first break from this to going through legal proceedings was WWII with nonuniformed Germans captured in the continental US in WWII. They were not put in civilian court – it was military court.
Old Vet
November 23rd, 2009
10:49 am
Only people who’ve never been in the military believe that military justice is fair and impartial. Whether it’s merely “office hours” for being a few hours late from leave or a full court martial, you’re guilty before the talking even starts. Overseas observers would view a trial before a military tribunal in the same way we used to view one of the old Soviet show trials.
Rightwing Troll
November 23rd, 2009
11:15 am
I completely stand by what I’ve said. Young, fresh and full of NEW ideas, or the same old extremist rightwing nut sacks. Our country does much better when the Gov is balanced. It forces the nut sacks and moonbats to be “mouth breathing aisle reachers”… we all are much better off when that happens.
Rightwing Troll
November 23rd, 2009
11:19 am
And I’m still waiting for that emuneration of the ills in your life(s) directly caused by anything Obama has done (not “what will” happen, but what has happened)… anybody???
For example:
Has Obama and Rahm showed up on your doorstep to collect your firearms? If yes, then your life has been adversely affected, if no, “Obama’s going to come get my guns” will not suffice.
Rightwing Troll
November 23rd, 2009
11:23 am
“Cue the psychotics.”
Already been queued…
Tom
November 23rd, 2009
12:59 pm
The weak, needy, cowardly, rancid Repugs will wear them down – thereby once again snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory. Onward to – the 1950’s!!!
Mrs. Godzilla
November 24th, 2009
9:28 am
Let’s see
Future POTUS defends Brit Army dudes accused of Boston Massacre in Boston….
Just a little insight into the founding fathers.
Perhaps if the victims were called potential Americans….maybe if they were called blastocyst Americans…..