The phenomenon of sprawl has passed into history
Sprawl is dead. It’s roadkill, you might say.
And unlike movie zombies, the growth phenomenon that once defined the metro region is not going to spring back to life. In Atlanta and most other places, the sprawl era that began with post-war Levittown, N.Y. and eventually redrew the American landscape and mindset has now passed into history.
Now, that doesn’t mean that the suburbs created by sprawl will disappear or even decline. To the contrary, for many they remain great places to live and raise a family, and that won’t change. Once the economy recovers, a lot of suburbs will resume growth through infill development and increased density, although they will become increasingly urban in the process.
However, the conversion of vast tracts of far-flung greenspace into suburban housing — that has ended. The larger postwar demographic trends, economics, lifestyle choices and government subsidies that drove that trend have all petered out, and without them, large-scale sprawl will end as well.
The evidence of that transition is stark. Today, if you fly over or drive around the outer suburbs of metro Atlanta, you’ll find tens of thousands of vacant lots, cleared and ready for houses. Many of those empty lots — some complete with paved roads, sewer, water and utilities — will never see development and are destined to be reclaimed by nature, reverting to pasture or forest.
The industry that generated those lots has vanished as well, never to reassemble in such numbers. The mortgage brokers who stood ready to close loans in those subdivisions are instead collecting unemployment or selling shoes. The developers who bet their futures on those home lots have gone bankrupt, and the Hispanic carpenters and laborers who would have built them have gone, disappearing as quickly and mysteriously as they appeared. Many of the commercial banks that financed those projects have also gone under.
Now, it’s tempting to dismiss all that change as the temporary result of a deep recession. If that were true, the sprawl industry would likely reassemble once the economy picks up. But it won’t.
Even before the recession hit, the sprawl model of growth was showing serious strains in metro Atlanta. Admittedly, it was hard to see at the time. The U.S. Census Bureau, for example, reported that from July 2000 to July 2008, six of the 15 fastest growing counties in the country could be found here in the 28-county Atlanta metro region.
By the end of that eight-year stretch, however, the Atlanta boom had cooled considerably. By July 2007 to July 2008, none of the 15 fastest growing counties were in metro Atlanta. The only two metro counties to even make the top 50 were Forsyth at No. 16 and Paulding at No. 40.
The boom machine, however, was too busy making money to notice that slackening of demand. By July 2007, almost 240,000 lots were coming on line for development in north metro Atlanta alone, according to Metrostudy, a real-estate data and analysis company. This, in a market where annual new home sales barely averaged 30,000, even during the boom.
What accounts for that shift? A lot of it is the free market at work. Younger people forming households of their own are more interested in urban living than in recreating their suburban upbringing, and many older Americans are also looking to downsize their living arrangements. The rising cost of commuting and energy to heat and cool large homes are having an impact as well.
Government’s declining ability to subsidize farflung suburbia has also had an effect. In Atlanta and other areas, the transportation infrastructure needed to shorten commuting times and thus extend the suburban model still farther from the core is no longer practical or affordable; it has become a struggle just to service already developed areas.
For a while, the flood of easy mortgages, cheap immigrant labor and big profits disguised those profound changes taking place nationally. Here in metro Atlanta, it disguised something else as well.
Long before the recession began, the metro region’s job-creating capacity was already more myth than reality. A lot of people were moving here, but jobs weren’t. According to Rajeev Dhawan, director of the Economic Forecasting Center at Georgia State University, by 2008 the 28-county area had produced an average of just 1,400 premium-paying jobs a year since 2002.
No doubt many of those jobs were generated by the sprawl industry, the result of a boom that we now know to have been based on a false foundation. Metro Atlanta’s economic challenges, in other words, aren’t likely to end when this terrible recession does.
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234 comments Add your comment
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
7:39 am
May it rest in peace!
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
7:40 am
Shorter wingnut response:
“Why do you want to force me to live in Manhattan with Those People, Komrade Jay?”
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
7:41 am
I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful.
Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.
AmVet
November 20th, 2009
7:42 am
Yeah, the Atlanta exurbs are a wasteland. I’m sure as hell glad I don’t live in Cumming and face an hour plus commute to work and an hour and a half drive home EVERY day and night.
That’s unless I leave ho me at 5AM to beat the “rush” and then work until 7:30 to go start home.
Fools…
No wonder road rage is so popular here.
The idiot boy in Jesus’ clothes is at it again.
And some of you morons probably voted for this clown, er excuse me, battle hardened US Marine. (I thought lying was one of those ten non nos…)
“Islam is a violent, I was going to say religion, but it’s not a religion. It’s a political system,” Robertson said. “It’s a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world and world domination. That is the ultimate aim.”
jt
November 20th, 2009
7:45 am
“Why do you want to force me to live ITP with Those People, Komrade Jay?”
Normal
November 20th, 2009
7:46 am
Jay, you paint a bleak picture, but I see the truth in it. Atlanta in particular and Georgia are going to need that “responsible leadership”. Wonder where they will find that?
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
7:49 am
“Why do you want to force me to live ITP with Those People, Komrade Jay?”
heh. You know, after I posted it, I was thinking that this approach would’ve been more effective. Kudos.
(However, being that I’m a longtime Atrios fan, the notion that any discussion of sprawl inevitably leads to someone griping that we’ll all be forced to live in Manhattan has become a kind of running joke/Godwin kinda deal.)
Jay used blogroll to Atrios, but I guess he either got tired of it or found it irksome–he never said why he dropped the link, though.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
7:50 am
The shorthand over at Atrios for such discussion is to simply refer to any somewhat densely populated place as an “urban hellhole.” Also.
AmVet
November 20th, 2009
7:50 am
Normal, are you insinuating that Pray for Rain was not a model leader in the Republican style?
After all, he brought us….and he resolved that….and he implemented….
Oh yeah, the Go Fish campaign!
A paragon of accomplishments, that one…
Normal
November 20th, 2009
7:54 am
AmVet: no, what I was saying is that Pray For Rain WAS the role model in the Republican style…Thus the problem.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
7:55 am
Well thats good to hear!! Lower demand should bring lower prices and Booger is planning no less than 50% down payment for his Mini-Castle!
ITP is pretty much a hellhole except for N Fulton.
On another note…Apparently the medical community motorhead have viewed the issue of cervical exams incorrectly for years as they did with mammograms. OR is it a little arm twisting from the kenyan?
Well regardless this is just a small taste of thing to come with ObaMaoCare.
This whole ObaMaoCare issue should be scrapped. It will cost far more than its worth and raise taxes on everyone. And my profits are more important than your children, health and happiness.
Get a job ya squirrels.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
7:55 am
Chill out Repubs…that was a joke. This thing is bigger than Sonny…
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
7:55 am
stands for decibels
**I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful. Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.**
I can’t prove you wrong, but I would add that it was also close minded and really, really ignorant, but I do agree that it was also hateful. But hey, it’s not like you have any credibility here, anyway. Look at how dumb your first post was.
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
7:57 am
ITP is pretty much a hellhole
Thanks, Booger Lemonade–I knew I could count on you.
Peadawg
November 20th, 2009
7:57 am
Normal, a lot of people were looking for leadership from Obama, but sadly he hasn’t accomplished much of anything since he’s been in office. Troops are still overseas and jobs are still a rare thing to come by.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
7:57 am
And they’re off………….
Normal
November 20th, 2009
7:59 am
Peadawg…I can’t fault you there. You are absolutely right.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
7:59 am
Normal
More governmental leadership? How about if we all man-up and start trying to move away from the government fixing (destroying) everything?
And what is the problem with praying for rain? Would it had been better if Purdue would have checked an astrology chart? You guys need top open up those minds a little. Some folks DO think differently than you.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:00 am
Good Morning Mrs G. I hope you are happy and well.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:00 am
The people begin a change and it’s well underway. How long for the politicians to recognize it, then appropriately modify it?
And how long for the voters to change the clueless politicians?
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:01 am
NIF, thank you for that sermon, when do you pass out the bread and wine?
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:01 am
More taxes for you…
here’s a list of some of the new taxes that are in the 2074 page senate health care bill. wonder how many more there are in this bill and the house 1900+ pages. these taxes will take effect on passage but the health care will not begin until 2014. does anyone actually believe that this can work for the benefit of the American people? the egos of the people who came up with this piece of garbage is amazing. they should be booted out in the street asap.
Individual Mandate Tax = Income Surtax
Employer Mandate Tax
40% tax on “Cadillac” Health Insurance plans
Medicine Cabinet Tax (has to do with HSA/FSA accts)
HSA withdrawal tax hike
Excise tax on charitable hospitals
Tax on Innovator Drug companies
Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
Tax on Cosmetic Surgery
Higher Payroll Tax on Upper Income
Tax on Health Insurers
Elimination of tax deductions for employer provided retirement drug coverage
Hike in Medicare Payroll Taxes
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax hike
And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:02 am
JAy
You may accept that America is in a decline. And as long as Washington is like it is now, we are declining, but Obama only has three more years, so we will be fine after that.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:02 am
G’morning, Mrs. Godzilla
My, my, you were up early this morning! All excited about the New Moon opening?
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:02 am
And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.
…and that says it all…
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:03 am
Normal
Just trying to convince you to be more accepting of others, Pal. Why can’t we all just get along?
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:04 am
Boogers 8:01
Shouldn’t Conservatives thank Liberals for following conservative philosophy (not necessarily conservative actions) by paying for services, rather than implementing services and funding them by going in debt?
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:04 am
Morning Normal…..
Can we have Fruday night steak night in Normalville like we do
in Lizardton?
Just heard CNN talk about the Afghan War tax…….
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:05 am
Friday Friday Friday
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:06 am
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:02 am
Says all you need to know, brother.
Dont be such a sour-puss. Invest in the market and make some of YOUR OWN PROFITS. Or are ya too scared…hmm.
RISK/REWARD!!
PS…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:07 am
WHAT??!! No wine???
From all of the things my Christian relatives told me, the one I remember most is God only answers prayers given in private and on your knees. Sonny’s praying was a political shot, no more, no less. He just became a bigger a–hole at that time.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:08 am
Paul
Always up early…I am a morning person.
I fade fast after 9 pm.
If they can get Bela Lugosi to reprise his role I might be at least
curious……otherwise it’s a Jason movie with bigger teeth.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:08 am
Normal
**And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.**
Who says that? Conservatives actually HAVE their children. My profits fed my children and I paid taxes that feed other children and my Church feeds lots and lots of children.
Man, you gotta open up that mind and start looking around. Conservatives are the ones that are concerned with children. Red and yellow black or white, they are precious in his sight . .
And that’s the old version that isn’t talking about Obama.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:09 am
Mrs. G. It’s your store…go for it. What’s this Afghan war tax?
jt
November 20th, 2009
8:09 am
Speaking of taxes. Good thing we can rely on a “real” news source.
From Taranto———
Number of AP reporters assigned to story:
• ObamaCare bills: 2
• Palin book: 11
Number of pages in document being covered:
• ObamaCare bills: 4,064
• Palin book: 432
Number of pages per AP reporter:
• ObamaCare bill: 2,032
• Palin book: 39.3
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:10 am
Paul
This will Break the bank. The kenyan is such a dullard. Your taxes are gonna be raised. So take that to the bank also.
PS…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.
OH…there’s your sign.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:12 am
Narmal
No wine? It’s 8 oclock in the morning. How about some Tropicana Pure Premium?
And see, the deal about your family and they way they pray is what I am talking about. I was taught to pray whenever and where ever necessary. And please don’t tell me that a politician was political. Or is that just for Democrats?
mike
November 20th, 2009
8:12 am
“**I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful. Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.**”
So a hateful individual is demanding that 40% of the country “prove” that they are not hateful.
Makes sense to me.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:12 am
NIF, Booger said that and I was commenting on it. Booger’s Scrooge. He believes in profits over people. I don’t.
And Booger, I’ve done quite well away from the market and I wasn’t hurt when it fell. I was tempted to invest when it was lower, but my old fashioned savings plan is still working just fine. But thank you for your concern for my profits…
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:12 am
jt 8:09
If you’re a ‘news’ organization, ya’ gotta’ get your priorities straight.
And to know the difference between cheerleading, attacking and…. reporting?
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
8:14 am
Shouldn’t Conservatives thank Liberals for following conservative philosophy (not necessarily conservative actions) by paying for services, rather than implementing services and funding them by going in debt?
Paul, as I was listening to a discussion of one particular part of the healthcare bill — the establishment of a more autonomous role for MedPac — and it got me wondering something very similar. Actual fiscal conservatives–of which I like to think of myself as a member–have been talking about real entitlement reform for forever.
Well, empowering an autonomous organization the power to actually control costs, instead of leaving it up to the tender mercies of whatever lobbying group manages to grab the ear of whatever Congresscritter–that seems like pretty major-league entitlement reform to me.
And if what I’d heard was correct, it’s something that the GOP used to support.
here’s a bit about the panel — and no, it is not specific to what’s in the Senate bill, but it will give an idea of what’s being attempted, and what likely will emerge from legislation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/health/policy/14medpac.html
mike
November 20th, 2009
8:14 am
jt –
Saw that.Taranto is great. I thought his mention of this story from Obama’s trip to China was funny:
“”I’m a big supporter of non-censorship,” Obama said. “I recognize that different countries have different traditions. I can tell you that in the United States, the fact that we have free Internet–or unrestricted Internet access–is a source of strength, and I think should be encouraged.” . . .
Chinese bloggers who saw it were grateful that he addressed censorship, but many zeroed in on what they considered Obama’s waffling language.
“Learn English from Obama: Instead of saying ‘I want to eat,’ say ‘I am a big supporter of non-hunger,’ ” Wang Pei, a writer based in eastern China’s Hangzhou, twittered on Tuesday.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704204304574545733826430664.html
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:15 am
Boogers
My point was, Democrats proposed a new program and they also proposed taxes to pay for it, {something we did not regularly see when Republicans had the Congress and Presidency). Given that Republicans portray themselves as the party of fiscal conservatism, which includes paying for that which you do, my question was, shouldn’t Conservatives applaud Liberals for saying “this is what we want to do and this is how we will pay for it,” not condemn them?
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:16 am
Normal
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/68775-dem-lawmakers-introduce-afghan-war-surtax
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:18 am
sfd 8:14
Thanks for the link. Everything is so topsy-turvy ya’ gotta’ pretty much toss out the old views of who believes what and who does what, eh?
@@
November 20th, 2009
8:20 am
Infill? Is that when somebody buys an $850,000 home on a half acre lot, only to tear the house down to build a nicer one? Someone I know just did that.
Talk about money to burn!!?!!
Timing’s right for me. 5 or 6 more years….I’ll be looking at Sweet Home (south) Alabama. 40 acres and a horse or two.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:21 am
mike 8:14
[[“”I’m a big supporter of non-censorship,” Obama said.]]
I guess that’s why Pres Obama backed off from his administration’s shunning of Fox News and granted them an interview when he was on his China trip, so some Chinese student at the town hall didn’t say “Mr. President, if you support non-censorship then why does your administration seek to diminish the voices of those who disagree with you?”
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:23 am
Normal
I was just giving you a hard time. They screwed up this song with the video, but here . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZavcU5hlA
chuck allison
November 20th, 2009
8:23 am
As I look out over the beautiful hay field in front of my house with the Canadian geese, the silos, the beautiful pine and hardwood forests, and the starry nights, I can only hope you are correct and that the subdivisions will never venture out here. Other folks can stay in their filthy, crime-ridden cities if they wish, and rural Americans can enjoy the good life. We will send you a post card, Jay.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:24 am
Mrs. G @ 08:16
Interesting. I see no Republicans are supporting it, so do you think that this might be a Democrat ploy to end the war quicker. Nothing gets people against a problem than the threat of higher taxes…
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:25 am
NIF, thanks. I’ll look at it when I get home. Work doesn’t like youtube.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:26 am
chuck allison
Home run!!
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:27 am
Normal
It’s Oh what a beautiful Morning, so it won’t have the same impact, but I tried.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:27 am
Normal
I sure hope so…..
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:28 am
NIF, From “Oklahoma”. Loved that play…
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:29 am
Mrs. G. Me too!
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:30 am
Normal
November 20th, 2009
8:12 am
Nothing wrong with a good ole fashioned savings account, Booger also has one of those! I believe in PROFITS for everyone!
Paul, to answer your question…No. This silly OboboCare will break the bank. All these taxes on big business will just send big business running for tax cover loopholes and more importantly they will lay-off employees to finance the tax or lower their tax threshold.
But lettuce remember the most important thing and thats MY PROFITS!
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
8:31 am
filthy, crime-ridden cities
Failure to refer to them as “hellholes.” 15-yard penalty.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:33 am
Theres you sign.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:33 am
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
8:31 am
LOL!!
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:34 am
Normal
Ray Charles does a version with the Count Basie Band. It’s on itunes, but not Utube. Spend a buck and download it. It’s Ray at his best.
I sent you a Glenn Miller version. Not bad.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:35 am
Theres you sign……there’s your sign.
(disclaimer I am a terrible speller)
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:39 am
To Boogers with love…..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33302045
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
8:39 am
Nice article Jay. Couldn’t agree more. In the World According to Bosch, alternative fuel options includes re-doing the way we plan communities: more bike paths, more stores you can walk to, and even like Peachtree City – more golf cart paths (I want a golf cart sooo bad). We’ve created communities and planned cities with very limited public transportation, or made it where driving is the only option. And change some zoning laws where businesses can operate in already existing structures (like houses, if need be). This solves many problems: obesity, fuel, and people getting to know their neighbors.
Anywho…….my two cents this morning.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
8:42 am
Paul,
My daughter is so excited – we had to watch the Jay Leno Show last night just because of that movie – talk about torture. Luckily, she has a friend with a crazy mother who is taking them tonight. Good lord, I wouldn’t be caught within a 100 yards of a movie theater tonight.
Bruno
November 20th, 2009
8:43 am
Have a great day, all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGfJ0_KMiro
H. Hebe
November 20th, 2009
8:45 am
Bomb squad investigating suspicious package at The Temple
*
On Oct. 12, 1958, a dynamite blast blew a hole in the side of The Temple. No one was injured in the early morning blast.
Authorities suspected five men were responsible for the bombing, but only one stood trial, and he was acquitted.*
Anti-semitism has been around a long time, eh?
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
8:45 am
I guess I should post something calming and positive in response to Jay’s piece before departing, so here goes.
Believing that poorly constructed and poorly planned exurban communities — which aren’t really communities at all, it’s more like whatever some developer managed to rape-and-scrape on the cheap — were and are unsustainable, is not equal to shoving everyone into an “urban hellhole.”
There are many examples of perfectly nice, walkable suburban communities that have sprung up, some by design, some in a more chaotic fashion. If people want to live there that’s swell. I’ve only spent a very short time, myself, living within the actual city limits of a major American city; I’ve always found that circumstances dictated living in either a bedroom community or something closer to what might be called an exurb (I’m OTP these days.)
However, I will say that having been in very densely populated places and places where half- to whole-acre lots are the norm, I am almost certain my next residence will be in the former.
Put another way, I read a lot of the “Little House” books and, at an early age, came to believe that Pa’s need to continually pull up stakes and move the family away from other people bordered on the psychotic. But that was just me.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
8:49 am
Bosch
I have tickets for 1:00! Went yesterday to check out the cinema (new, stadium seating, all digital) and saw 2012 (just enjoy the special effects and suspend belief in plot devices). Glad I went – the seating behind the aisleway was too close – like sitting 5 ft away from a 60″ plasma screen. Further back is better to see that huge screen.
Couldn’t believe Dakota Fanning on Leno. She’s 15 – then they showed that clip of her as a Volturi – yikes! The way her whole persona changed – she’s quite an actress (as opposed to my sister’s observation about Jennifer Aniston: “she plays herself in whatever role she’s in – you’re always aware it’s Jennifer Aniston”).
Hey! Two and a Half Men last night: Six was on as Charlie Sheen’s fiancee’s distraught college roommate. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:50 am
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
8:39 am
Ugh…sea snot? thanks I think.
PS…Rachel is a hotty!
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
8:51 am
“Jennifer Aniston: “she plays herself in whatever role she’s in – you’re always aware it’s Jennifer Aniston”).”
How true! She’s a bit mousy looking…its no wonder Brad left her in the lerch.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
8:52 am
Jay;
Over the last 20-odd years you have written hundreds of sprawl and ant-suburb articles. I have never agreed with you on any of them. This is no exception.
Over the last year or so Developers and Home Builders with a national presence have been quietly buying up these tens of thousands of lots that are out there. They are getting them from banks for 30 to 35 cents-on-the-dollar. Other investor groups with adequate cash are doing the same.
When the new home market comes back these groups will be poised to meet the demand for homes and make tons of money building homes on discounted lots. These existing lots will have to be absorbed before any new development can take place. Also there are plenty of subdivisions that are designed, shovel ready if you choose, where lots can be brought on line in 3 to 5 months.
Almost of these existing lots and shovel ready subdivision are in the suburbs and exurbs. Some may return to nature, but it will be a very low number.
I could make this as long as your post, but I won’t. I would add some points that I think are givens.
1. Most people do not make their home choice based on the length of commute. Instead they choose based on where they want to raise their children.
2. In commuting, people who have a choice choose convenience over public transit. Public transit is almost never convenient or faster. Driving one’s personal vehicle is the most convenient way to commute.
3. The only way to force people to use public transit is to eliminate parking at their destination. Not going to happen in metro Atlanta.
4.Because the National Builders will have, already have, a monopoly on existing lots, entrepreneurial builders will be frozen out. That means the local home builders will be working for the Big Builder Industry.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:53 am
i will admit that it is sort of crazy. You have places like Mechanicsville, where you could walk to the Georgia Pacific building, but Machanicsville is an old “Great Society” Ghetto. So is the crime infested crap hole that runs along Boulevard, but right now, people are fighting traffic to drive downtown from Woodstock.
The answer is to clean up the city, like the more advanced cities in the world are doing. It means more tax revenues and less dependents. It’s not really politically correct, but it certainly cleaned up Georgia tech when they got rid of Techwood Homes.
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
8:55 am
No more spraw? Say it isn’t so!!! Maybe people have come to their senses after all. Is this the Hope in the “Hope and Change”? I never understood why the metro area continued it’s big bang demonstration by expanding further and further away from the center without addressing meaningful transportation options. I laugh at people who want to move away from problems, but have a 2+ hour commute to work. That’s a sign of stupidity if I ever saw one. I had to do that for a while because of a job transfer, but that didn’t last too long, and I refused to make that drive every day. I used MARTA whenever I could to avoid sitting in traffic.
Normal
You asked for effective leadership.
Survey Says!!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:55 am
Boogers for the Children Fund
**She’s a bit mousy looking…its no wonder Brad left her in the lerch.**
I would take Jennifer any day over that saggy looking, prison tattoo covered winch that he is married to now. That woman used to be beautiful, but she is aging horribly.
zeke
November 20th, 2009
8:58 am
May sprawl forever continue to grow and give people safe, realistic places to live, raise families and be removed from the blight and crime of urbanism!
Joey
November 20th, 2009
8:59 am
Jay or anyone who knows. I am interested in why Jay put the “T-B*g” label on the “do not use” list. After allowing its use for months, this makes no sense to me.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
9:01 am
I read this in a newletter a few years ago.
SPRAWL:
Successfully Providing Residences, Amenities and Workplaces Locally.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
9:03 am
“I laugh at people who want to move away from problems, but have a 2+ hour commute to work. That’s a sign of stupidity if I ever saw one. I had to do that for a while because of a job transfer, but that didn’t last too long, and I refused to make that drive every day. I used MARTA whenever I could to avoid sitting in traffic.”
LOL…Glad to see you are in your usual “good” mood.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
9:05 am
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
8:55 am
Well you may be in luck. Jenn cant find a date nor keep a lover. This could be your chance my friend…go on, take a chance and give her a call. Your chances are as good as anyone elses.
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
9:07 am
Boogers
I haven’t had my coffee yet. I’ll be singing “Zip-da-dee-doo-daa” in about 1/2hour. LOL!!
Normal
November 20th, 2009
9:09 am
Safe in the suburbs.
November 20th, 2009
9:04 am
bless your heart…
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
9:10 am
Safe in the suburbs.
November 20th, 2009
9:04 am
LMAO…Stayin in the burbs also. Ya couldnt pay me to live in that crime infested rat/hellhole that is downtown Atlanta, Atlantic Station and all the other supposed up-scale “in-town” living.
I hear In-Town suites will be constructing a huge downtown Atlanta megaplex for the “downtrodden”.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
9:10 am
Write this date down – NIF and Bosch agree on something:
“That woman used to be beautiful, but she is aging horribly.”
Paul,
You are seeing it today? They’ll be time this afternoon before Traveling Music for a report.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
9:12 am
Boogers for the Children Fund
I’m taken. But if I weren’t, I’m sure I have the same chance that getalife has for Carrie Prajean.
So what else do you read in “The Star”.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
9:13 am
Joey,
I too was surprised at that choice of word banning, but it might have something to do with the other, nothing to do with the actual drinking of tea or protesting tea, definition of the word.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:14 am
Boogers
That was a sub…..Rachel is attractive also, especially to her partner Susan.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
9:16 am
Bosch
I think it may be that permanent pucker that she has. I think the collagen is beginning to harden. And let me tell you: those lips aren’t the only things that are sagging.
Ward
November 20th, 2009
9:19 am
You may be right, and if so, hooray. Nonetheless, as the surburban infill maxes out, property values will rise, pushing people further out again. And don’t presume that the ITP/OTP debate is valid any more. I’ve lived ITP for 25 years and spent the last 10 driving 20 miles to my OTP jobs. That’s gonna have to change. The jobs are not downtown anymore, as anyone at the AJC well knows.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
9:19 am
Bosch;
O.K. it has something to do with the sexual reference. But why allow it for months and months, then suddenly ban it.
My thought, Tea-B*gger was banned because no one objected to its use as a derogatory label any longer?
getalife
November 20th, 2009
9:21 am
Yeah, the cons are more sane when the talk is not about politics.
Last time I was in Atlanta, the traffic was worse in Gwinnett County.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
9:24 am
First off, I have no desire to know the slang meaning of the bagger thing. I’d understood Tea in teaparty was for Taxed Enough Already.
So a derogatory slang term with weird sexual reference came into being?
And this came from the Liberal Left?!!?
Noah
November 20th, 2009
9:26 am
Joey:
1. The trend is that more and more people are choosing a home that has a shorter commute and it makes sense. Why have a huge yard and house but never get to see your children because you are stuck in traffic. More and more people are also realizing they don’t need such a big house and that even that they don’t want such a big house, I know many people in this boat.
2. People use public transit every day and as gas creeps up to $4 and $5 a gallon more and more will. Even if you commute by car, 5 or 10 miles sure beats 50 miles.
Bubba
November 20th, 2009
9:26 am
Sprawl, aka progress, is not dead, even thought the government looters are doing their best to kill it. Personally, I like living in the suburbs, where I can go to the grocery store without getting ‘jacked.Oh, but living intown is so trendy!
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
9:27 am
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
9:12 am
Star? Too expensive. In order to keep up with national/international news/events I consult The National Enquirer!
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:29 am
Paul
No that nasty definition has been around for years.
It’s gay slang and since there are both R and D gay folks…..I
call the term centrist? Hell, the nose is in the center of the face….
(Forgive me)
tscali
November 20th, 2009
9:29 am
logic doesn’t exist in the left. unnecessary destruction of the opposing party does. if terrorism creeps into urban havens, so be it. burn the bushes. it’s the right thing to do.
Eric Holder’s True Motive: The KSM Trial
**Is that the nub? To satisfy the revenge fantasies of American leftists who have lusted to put the Bush administration on trial, the Obama administration is willing to sacrifice logic, justice, national security, and honor?
When KSM’s star turn in the courtroom goes viral on the Internet and inspires thousands of new jihadis, the Obamaites can console themselves that at least they stuck it to George W. Bush.**
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:31 am
tscali
silly boy, if KSM goes all viral in the courtroom nobody will see it.
1st no cameras…..2nd the judge will “bobby seale” him
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
9:31 am
Paul
I think the sexual meaning had been around a lot longer than the protests. The snicker snicker started when the protesters started being referred to as T**baggers. I think Jay was attempting to keep the conversation civil by banning all references. I’ve always referred to them as protesters. I refuse to call them baggers.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
9:34 am
Joey,
Maybe like most of us, Jay didn’t know about it’s sexual reference until it was raised on the blog.
Paul,
I don’t think it was the liberal left, but someone whose interprets thing in a much more grotesque manner than you or I.
getalife
November 20th, 2009
9:35 am
The t baggers are turning on each other now.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:37 am
getalife
i read that….lawsuits about where the money went….
i’m more interested in where it cam from.
SOUTHERN ATL
November 20th, 2009
9:37 am
Good article…maybe we can get Sonny Perdue to pray that the Georgia economy grows strong before he leaves office!
Bubba
November 20th, 2009
9:38 am
“the Hispanic carpenters and laborers who would have built them have gone, disappearing as quickly and mysteriously as they appeared.”
LOL, Jay. Do you ever leave your office?
Joey
November 20th, 2009
9:38 am
Noah;
This trend, the desire for a small easy to maintain yard or a yard maintained by the HOA, is being satisfied in the suburbs. The trend is almost exclusivly driven by people over 55. They want to live close to their grandchildren.
When the gas price goes up it causes people to change their behavior for a short time, but as soon as they can adjust they go back to driving their cars.
Tall
November 20th, 2009
9:40 am
That’s what recessions do, Mr. Bookman. But, no, sprawl is not dead nor will it ever die. As long as the general population expands by 2% – 3% per year, it will come back. I lived in Manhattan before I moved to Atlanta. It was fun at the time, but it is a hard place to live. Mid-town Atlanta is less frenetic, but not a good place for a family.
I like being part of the Sandy Springs sprawl. My kids have a yard and a pool and room in the basement to play and I don’t have to worry about being uncool. Have fun in midtown!!
You can get AIDS from the toilets at Piedmont park
November 20th, 2009
9:41 am
Count me as one that avoids downtown. It’s scary! I have the Gwinnett Braves and the Gwinnett Gladators to entertain me. I have a Wal Mart, a Publix and Kroger too……What I don’t have is thugs and men dressed as women and I praise the lord for that.
Bubba
November 20th, 2009
9:42 am
But Tall, wouldn’t you rather pay $1 million for a 2-bedroom bungalow intown than $500K for a 5-bedroom, finished-basement home with pool OTP?
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
9:43 am
Bubba,
Chances are that $1 million 2 bedroom bungalow intown will be standing a long time after the 5-bedroom sawdust box OTP is gone.
Balance Our Budget
November 20th, 2009
9:45 am
Congressional Democrats could be careening toward a head-on collision with the White House over $200 billion in leftover bailout money — money that Republicans think should simply be returned to taxpayers.
The Treasury Department is pushing for fiscal prudence and wants to use the money to pay down the deficit and keep a small rainy-day fund in case of economic catastrophe.
But Democrats are salivating over the possibility of $200 billion in unspent money.
Like kids in a candy store .Spend baby spend.
Bubba
November 20th, 2009
9:45 am
No Bosch, it won’t. Unless the owner decides to tear it down and build something even better. All for less than your $1M bungalow.
RK
November 20th, 2009
9:46 am
Sprawl is ending? Not without the expansion of MARTA.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:48 am
OH NOES!
Using leftover TARP funds to create jobs!
Oh the inhumanity!
pat
November 20th, 2009
9:48 am
“For a while, the flood of subprime mortgages to dead beats who can’t or won’t pay trying to live waaaaay beyond their means, cheap illegal immigrant labor and big profits disguised those profound changes taking place nationally.”
There, fixed it for ya.
Doggone/GA
November 20th, 2009
9:48 am
“And this came from the Liberal Left?!!?”
My understanding is that it came from some of the Tea Partiers actually carrying the little bags of tea around as a symbol and someone realized they didn’t know the OTHER meaning for those tea bags.
Noah
November 20th, 2009
9:49 am
Joey:
I agree with you. When I think of additional sprawl it means new, cheaper subdivisions on the outer edges. I just think that less people are likely to opt for the really long commutes (say exburbs) then they were 5 or 10 years ago. Quality of life is important to people as well as how nice their home is plus they want shopping close by and the exburbs/newer areas may not offer that. Those that live in established suburban areas and are near to shopping etc are not the target of his theory I don’t believe.
I do know many people under 55 who want smaller places (easier to maintain, less work, cheaper utilities etc). Its a lifestyle choice.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
9:55 am
Mrs. Godzilla 9:29 ABM 9:31
Thanks. For me, sometimes ignorance is bliss!
Tall
November 20th, 2009
9:56 am
Bubba:
If I move ITP, where I am going to put the BBQ smoker? That’s the problem with condos. When I lived in NYC, I was on the fifth floor of a five floor walk up building. Just up the stairs was the rooftop. You can do some good BBQ’ing(it is a verb up north) on the rooftop.
samuel
November 20th, 2009
9:56 am
I’ve lived in the city of atlanta, and-more specifically- Southwest Atlanta my entire life. I can say that I’m perfectly happy living in my neighborhood. I’ve never witnessed a shooting, no home that i’ve ever lived in has been broken in to, and I’ve never felt the need to own a gun. People in black neighborhoods have the same amenities in their homes that white, Hispanic and Asian people have in theirs, including satellite TV and internet access. Now I’ve never been to Paulding, Fayette or Henry counties, and I’ve only seen Gwinnett County from the windows of a Greyhound bus on my way to New York. But I have been to the Eiffel Tower, I’ve sat in the gallery of the House of Commons, I’ve been to the top of Mount Corcovado and I’ve been inside the Sydney Opera House. So the thought of never having seen the Mall of Georgia does not faze me in the least. I love cities in general and I love living in the city of Atlanta!
Zeb
November 20th, 2009
9:57 am
Georgia is among the most beautiful places on earth. Mountains, rivers, pristine beaches, huge swaths of open countryside. But for decades Georgia has been the poster child for runaway, ruinous development, fueled by short-sighted, greedy, self-dealing politicians and “business leaders.” These people could care less if their grand children breathe air full of coal particulate, if every fish in the rivers is laced with mercury, and if Georgia is completely raped and pillaged by developers. To them a strip mall is a thing of beauty, coal-fired plants spewing spewing tons of pollution are the very definition of “progress.” Even our southern neighbors like N. Carolina, Tenn., etc.now realize that they must move into the 21st Century with new technology, light & high speed rail public transit, solar power, etc. But Georgia–No Way. Our Paleolithic leaders are still stuck firmly in the 1960’s where asphalt and belching smokestacks, and endless tracts of McMansions are symbols of their power & prestige.
What They Are Saying: 11.20.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
November 20th, 2009
9:57 am
[...] The end of sprawl: The phenomenon of sprawl has passed into history [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Paul
November 20th, 2009
9:59 am
Bosch
[[I don’t think it was the liberal left, but someone whose interprets thing in a much more grotesque manner than you or I.
]]
What do you expect from people who don’t appreciate the grand meanings of Battlestar Galactica and Twilight?
DoggoneGA
Good morning! That was kinda my question – did those opposed to the people holding the rallies, who’d given themselves an acronym name, have a grotesque sexual slang reference brought in by those opposed to their views? No response necessary -
Cherokee
November 20th, 2009
9:59 am
Normal as usual I get to the party late, but you are absolutely correct about the total lack of leadership in
Atlanta. Up here in Cherokee we’re represented by the slimy Chip Rogers, who is busy fulfilling the goals of the tenthers, making sure that Georgians don’t have access to the public health care option.
Loser.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
9:59 am
tscali
November 20th, 2009
9:29 am
Holder is full of shyt/himself. If called to testify, Bush and other persons on Holders hit list should take the stand, reply to whatever Holders first question is with “Kiss my ass”, then laugh at him and finally plead the 5th.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
9:59 am
Paul
I can remember telling mom what some of the slang meant in the 70’s and 80’s and NOW…..when my kids tell me what some of the current slang means – I look in the mirror and see my mom’s face.
Really nothing new under the sun……
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 20th, 2009
10:00 am
@@
8:20 am
“Timing’s right for me. 5 or 6 more years….I’ll be looking at Sweet Home (south) Alabama. 40 acres and a horse or two.”
Just let me know whn you look for that horse. We have royally bred cutting stock with over 40 yrs invested in tinkering in their blood. Most go back 60 to 75% to Mr. San Peppy, all go back to Kingsville.
Fall is a beautiful time to picnic at our country home. The turning leaves, really offset, in a most picturesque way, the babbling streams and beautiful sorrel horses knee deep in the meadows. I could have Aunt Nettie, whose family has cooked our Thanksgiving dinners since they were welcomed to our farm in the late 1700s, cook some quail and prepare a nice lunch. A horseback tour would be fun and, while we discuss Sarah’s new book and the way the America has gone to hell under the liberals, you could become aquainted with my breeding program as I show you the brood, young ones, and the breeding shed.
Could make for a delightful day.
wyldbyllhyltner@gmail.com
Cherokee
November 20th, 2009
10:01 am
You are correct Zeb – how many strip malls do we need, for crying out loud?
Balance Our Budget
November 20th, 2009
10:02 am
Godzilla How much did unemployment rise after TARP was passed .Jobs LOL .What jobs?
jconservative
November 20th, 2009
10:02 am
Really nice piece of writing Jay.
Nothing Is Free
“JAy You may accept that America is in a decline.”
No where does Jay say or hint that America is in decline. And America is not in decline. Ways change. Habits change. What is desired changes. America is just changing. His opening reference to Levittown
was an example of America changing sixty years ago.
Is it changing for the better? Some say yes, some say no. Like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. But I will suggest that the changing America will be one of the driving engines of the American economy in the next 50 years. (Not my idea – I just borrowed it from Warren Buffet).
American history is a history of changes. Every 2 or 3 generations the country changes and goes in a different direction. This is what has made us the greatest country in the world. And, I trust, will keep us there.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 20th, 2009
10:04 am
Let me guess, we should move into a midtown tee pee and all huddle up to keep warm.
If thirteenth century Islamic lunatics have to live in a cave,who are we to be sleeping up off the ground?
Or we could pretend like this is the land of the free and it should be no concern of any whiny liberal as to where we choose to live.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:06 am
RIP UGA VII – what a great dog.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 20th, 2009
10:07 am
Al Qaeda gets all excited thinking of us crowded together in the cities and so do liberals.
Coincidence?
david wayne osedach
November 20th, 2009
10:10 am
Talk about urban sprawl in California. One huge city between Los Angeles and San Diego is materializing! That’s a couple of hundred miles long!
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:11 am
Mrs. G.,
I feel the same way. I feel like such an old Puritan sometimes, I hear things and think “How on the Earth did people think to even DO such a thing?” and “There’s actually a WORD for that?”
Paul,
“What do you expect from people who don’t appreciate the grand meanings of Battlestar Galactica and Twilight?”
For real man. Some people.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
10:12 am
Balance our Budget
Those apples connect to those oranges just how?
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:14 am
Mrs. G.,
Come on, it’s important to have a balance of fruit in your fruit salad.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
10:15 am
Boogers for the Children Fund
**I consult The National Enquirer!**
I live inside the perimeter so the mags I see in the checkout are XXL and Ebony.
Buzzed
November 20th, 2009
10:15 am
Interesting, but baseless. Sprawl will be back eventually. Maybe not with the same intensity, but back nonetheless.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
10:16 am
BoB
Any idea what the unemployment rate would have been without the TARP funds to stabilize the situation and restore confidence and the stim funding?
Higher? Lower? The same? Any idea by how much?
Tall
November 20th, 2009
10:17 am
JConservative:
America has been badly mismanaged and that IS resulting in decline. However, things could be turned around in ten years if the political will is there. For starters, politicians of both stripes will have to come to their senses and learn to use the word “No”. It will be much tougher for Democrats, obviously.
You do make some good points. There is no reason this country can’t continue on it’s path of greatness. The upside to the current dollar destruction, no growth GDP, 15% unemployment, confiscatory government fiscal policies is that younger generations will become weary of the pain and act accordingly.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
10:18 am
SOUTHERN ATL
**maybe we can get Sonny Perdue to pray that the Georgia economy grows strong before he leaves office!**
or we could get the libs to check their astrology charts or maybe have a woman’s chant circle. I hear that chanting is very effective.
Balance Our Budget
November 20th, 2009
10:18 am
So what part of town does Jay live in.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
10:18 am
Bosch
Fruits and nuts……a regular Waldorf Salad!
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:19 am
OOOH Paul,
Speaking of Battlestar, ’cause, ya’ know I like to and all – I saw another cast member scoring a job – I saw the guy who plays the creepy lawyer Romo on the show Supernatural last night. I didn’t actually see the show, just past through and saw him on the tube – but it’s good to see people who were part of television greatness move on to other things. And congrats on seeing Number Six using her natural God given talents in the show you saw. It’s almost enough to bring tears.
You can get AIDS from the toilets at Piedmont park
November 20th, 2009
10:20 am
We dont want marta in Gwinnett!
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:22 am
Bosch;
Yes many of us were unaware of the multiple meaning of T-B*gger until it was reported here and on news networks. But that was in March or April.
Why did Jay wait until November 18 or 19 to ban the word. He waited 7 months for a reason. Is it because people are no longer offended by the term and he can appear to be some gentle caring soul?
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
10:23 am
Ms Godzee…Rachel and her fem partner. Are they the lipstick lesbians? Im hoping so!
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:24 am
SPRAWL, a good thing.
Successfully Providing Residences, Amenities and Workplaces Locally.
Doggone/GA
November 20th, 2009
10:25 am
One thing we’re going to have to learn…and business AND government is going to have to learn…is that growth can’t always be exponential. We’re getting to the point where “growth” is going to be more natural, in keeping with population growth. Which means a steadier, slower growth.
Even in developing countries, growth isn’t going to be exponential forever. As their economies improve, their education levels improve, their incomes improve…they will gradually catch up with the more developed world. And then their growth, too, will change to slower and steadier.
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:25 am
Joey,
I have no idea, ask Jay. I didn’t know about the nerfarious nature of one of the definitions of the word until I heard some people mention it here.
Anywho – maybe Jay got tired of hearing about it – nefarious or not – it is his blog after all – so he can block any word he chooses.
But again, ask him – not me.
theboogins
November 20th, 2009
10:26 am
Thanks to Pat Swindel (sp?) the ITP types soon won’t have a place to go to buy bootlegged, knock-offed and “hot goods.” Thanks Pat. Sheesh.
JB
Paul
November 20th, 2009
10:28 am
Bosch
You should have seen Charlie Sheen’s dream sequence when his fiancee asked him to comfort Six in her hour of need…..actually, it was more like they both were….
Left wing management
November 20th, 2009
10:31 am
This New Republic article by Alan Ehrenhalt is must reading on this subject and puts a whole range of assumptions about cities such as Atlanta in question.
http://www.tnr.com/article/urban-policy/trading-places
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
10:33 am
Tall
I always wanted to live in Manhattan, for about three or four months and have the money to enjoy the city. I once had a NYC cab driver bragging about all the things there were to do in NY. I asked him what he and his family did. He said that they watched a lot of TV.
I like Atlanta. I used to love it. I also used to live in Sandy Springs when you could get from 400 to Roswell Road along Abernathy in less than 5 minutes during rush hour. When we moved it was taking about an hour for that trip.
jconservative
When Atlanta starts choosing leaders because they are smart and forward thinking instead of,”which democrat do we pick” we will start cleaning up the massive crime infested ghettos and start developing the land that is now occupied by the remnants of the great Society. At that point, the sprawl should start to slow down. Democrats love poor people and they love having them in those ghettos. That way the buses to the polls don’t ned to go so far.
Viva la poverty. It makes the democrats really strong.
jconservative
November 20th, 2009
10:36 am
“Or we could pretend like this is the land of the free and it should be no concern of any whiny liberal as to where we choose to live.”
Exactly what Jay said in his column. Market forces at work here.
Market forces drove the development of the “sprawl” and market forces are driving the “death” of the sprawl. Where will market forces take us? That is the question.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
10:38 am
joey
did Jay not respond to you when you told him it offended you?
Jake
November 20th, 2009
10:39 am
Clearly the Obama administration needs to take over the formerly private housing industry, appoint a close personal friend and contributor as housing czar, and all will be well.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:40 am
“Ask Jay.”
I did ask Jay and anyone on the blog.
You responded and I responded to you, then you responded, then I responded…….
I release you from any obligation to respond again
But it is still a puzzle.
Banning a term after it has run its course accomplishes what?
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:42 am
Mrs. Godzilla;
When I responded to the term by using similar offensive terms he deleted them and posted a warning to me that further use by me of those terms would result in my being banned.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
10:42 am
And this guy is sanctioned by the government to carry a gun….
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1118091taser1.html
you don’t need an IQ test to have a kid… but maybe you should if you’re charged with arresting one -
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
10:43 am
What developement the economy didn’t kill, the lack of of water resources will. Now might be a good time to either move or choose a new career if you are in the construction business.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:44 am
By the way Mrs Godzilla, I believe it was you who advised me 5 to 6 weeks ago to get over it. I took that advise. Thank you for that.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 20th, 2009
10:45 am
Market forces drove the development of the “sprawl” and market forces are driving the “death” of the sprawl. Where will market forces take us? That is the question.
Jcon- I happen to live “intown” myself and not way out in the boonies and is doesn’t anger me to think other people choose to do so.
Is there any stone that a liberal will leave unturned in the lives of others?
Nosy little busy bodies.
Besides, you can see empty houses in downtown ATL if you choose to look.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
10:47 am
Joey
So you didn’t….
A hint:
below this post it says “Link / Report this comment”
I have successfully had several comments I considered over the top purged using that tool. And I mean waaaay over the top.
(Doesn’t seem to be effective outside of normal business hours)
Bosch
November 20th, 2009
10:47 am
Joey,
“I release you from any obligation to respond again”
Thank you.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
10:48 am
Joey
and he does have a email address so you can directly address your concerns.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
10:50 am
Jewcowboy. The water angle I forgot about. Maybe it’s time to invest in some drilling equipment.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
10:50 am
Paul
I’m pretty sure that was not the first problem the mother had with the little brat.
It’s a shame that she had to be tazed, but this is why I don’t understand the outrage about what most libs consider torture. Someone posted an article saying that the CIA had tortured some al Quida by making them stand for a long period of time. And the abu grabe pictures of the guys being scared by the attack dogs. Not attacked, but scared. Doesn’t anyone ever watch COPS? They don’t scare people with attack dogs. They attack people with attack dogs.
Scooter
November 20th, 2009
10:53 am
It could be those young people who moved into the City to start a family will not raise a family there. You see, young people typically move to affordable inner city areas. Unfortunately, the culture and mind set that has been fostered in these communities is not something responsible parents want to subject their children to. There’s nothing like playing with your little one in the front yard when a car drives by with various vulgarities about sex and violence spewing from the window. Or a young man walking down the sidewalk free styling about the same type crap. It simply is not a culture I want to raise my child in, but I’ve had a wonderful time here and hopefully improved the direction of some lives.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:55 am
Mrs. Godzilla;
Thanks. Another bit of knowledge that I did not have.
Frankly I am probably more offended by Jay’s decision to ban the T-B*gger label at this late, very late, date than I was by him allowing it to be used for 6 or 7 months.
But as you will not doubt suggest, I will now let it go.
See. Gone.
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
10:57 am
Normal,
Looking towards a new Governor, I’m inclined to go with Sam Olen’s. Water resources (or more properly, the lack of) for Atlanta has been his mantra ever since I’ve heard him speak. If something is not worked out as far as Lake Lanier is concerned in the next 3 years, you won’t just see Atlanta stop growing, it will actually have to shrink, and with it revenue for the rest of the state.
This isn’t just about Atlanta, and it’s time for the rest of state to recognize that. Unfortunately, the rural side of this state is so short-sided when it comes to Atlanta, they won’t do anything until their Atlanta subsidies dry up, both literally and figuratively.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
10:58 am
Mrs. Godzilla.
Not quite gone. I contacted Jay at his AJC email weeks ago and several times about this subject. He did not respond. And he continued to allow the term.
Why now?
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
11:01 am
Jo3y,
Wh@t is the use in b@nning w0rds, wh3n they can be man1pulated with ch@racters to still g3t the g1st of the w0rd acr0ss?
Paul
November 20th, 2009
11:02 am
NIF
Re: the taser issue: I wonder what cops did with ten year old kids before they had tasers? I’ve heard just too many stories of cops using in extremely questionable circumstances. There’s on police chief in a Ft Worth suburb who absolutely refuses to get them for his department. Seems to me a fair number of officers are losing their professional edge -
Grumpy
November 20th, 2009
11:03 am
Bookman forgot to blame Republicans for all of this. He must be slipping.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:04 am
jewcowboy
We can elect new local politicians until the cows come home and it won’t help our water problems.
It is a federal issue. The passage that says that only Gainesville can take drinking water from Lake Lanier was directed to the Army Corps of Engineers that built the dam.
Only the fed can change that and considering that Georgia is a Red state, the chances of this Congress helping us is slim to none. The only prayer Atlanta has is if we flip Congress next year. Like it or not, the people you support are not about to help us.
getalife
November 20th, 2009
11:05 am
t bagger is a 2009 word of the year and President Clinton has used it.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:06 am
paul
Thanks to the libs, in many parts of the country, Parents can’t even spank their children. I couldn’t imagine being a cop. I would shoot everybody.
Joey
November 20th, 2009
11:06 am
j-c-b;
Why indeed?
Especially why after they have lost their negative impact?
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
11:09 am
Question:
Is God a capitalist ?
P.S.
Jackie …….. are you out there ?
Joey
November 20th, 2009
11:09 am
But Clinton was likely making a request of an intern at the time.
I hated writing this, but some thing it would just be wrong to pass up.
Willie
November 20th, 2009
11:14 am
OMG! What are you people talkign about? I need healthcare now. I have not been sick in years but I need healthcare right D*mn now. I have a food card, pell and hope pay for my college, I got a brick gov. house, and somebody pays my light bill. Sure thats important but I dont have healthcare. I need healthcare rigth now. I do not need a job for goodness sakes. What is wrong with you people? If I do not get healthcare I may become muslim.
getalife
November 20th, 2009
11:14 am
Joey,
Good one,
nif,
“I would shoot everybody.”
More proof the DHS should watch rw extremists.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:17 am
getalife
I win. I bet a woman here in the office that you would post a snide remark within five posts. Exactly five posts.
Thanks.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 20th, 2009
11:17 am
Well, I for one am glad Bookman banned that word. Whoever heard of such a thing? Bunch of preverts. And they’re all in the downtown area. And the worst part is they want to get married to each other and make our marriages worthless.
Have a good day everybody. Would write more but I’m scrambling to get all the places stocked so you drunks can enjoy tonight and keep my beer stocks going up.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
11:18 am
NIF
[[I couldn’t imagine being a cop. I would shoot everybody.]]
On behalf of me and my family, I would like to sincerely thank you for selecting a different career path.
Tall
November 20th, 2009
11:18 am
Nothing is free:
Everyone should live in New York for a year. There really is no place like it. The last apartment I had was on 47th street between Eighth and Ninth Avenues. That section of Ninth Avenue is or was home to numerous food stores. There were several times when I ran down the street to puchase a forgotten ingedient while the meal was cooking on the stove. That was then, though. I really do like Sandy Springs.
As for the traffic, I’m used to it.
getalife
November 20th, 2009
11:19 am
nif,
Blogging on company time?
Get to work.
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
11:19 am
Nothing Is Free,
“We can elect new local politicians until the cows come home and it won’t help our water problems.”
Judge Magnuson told GA that Lake Lanier was never authorized to use Lake Lanier’s water for Atlanta, and to work out a deal with Florida and Alabama until long term solutions can be realized. That is not a Federal job, but a state job.
Atlanta’s problem was made by Atlanta and the State of GA, and is up to Atlanta and the State of GA to find a long-term solution. Yes, Congress has to ok a deal, but it is up to State officials to work with FL and AL to ink a deal that Congress will approve.
If one would make the assumption that a blue Congress would not help a red state, wouldn’t it logically follow that a red Congress wouldn’t help a blue city?
Mrs. Godzilla
November 20th, 2009
11:20 am
NIF
at the risk of……
I know MA, tried to make it illegal to spank a child but I don’t think it passed.
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
11:20 am
“Is God a capitalist ?”
No, but much capitalism is done in His name.
Finn McCool
November 20th, 2009
11:24 am
The Audit the Fed ammendment introduced by Ron Paul and Grayson passed…even after Barnie Frank tried to shut it down.
ew lah lah
stands for decibels
November 20th, 2009
11:26 am
More proof the DHS should watch rw extremists.
They don’t have to. the O of O has them all covered.
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
11:28 am
To jewcowboy:
Then why does the Bible teach that those who accepted His salvation will be rewarded according to how much they worked for God here on earth. The more good works ………….. the greater the rewards (”that you may receive your reward in Heaven”). Likewise it teaches that those sent to Hell will be judged on their works (”beaten with many stripes”).
AmVet
November 20th, 2009
11:32 am
jewcowboy, one of my favorite songs about these self-appointed spokesmen for their deity is from a song called Godsaid:
You are not serving me, you’re serving something else
Cause I don’t need to be pleased, just get over yourself
You can’t suck up, up to me, I know you all too well
But I don’t dwell upon you, so get over yourself
Cause you’re not praying to me, you’re praying to yourself
And you’re not worshipping me, you’re worshipping yourself
And you will kill in my name and heaven knows what else
When you can’t prove I exist, so get over yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djc6dldCk3U
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:32 am
jewcowboy
Florida might be a temp solution, but to build a pipeline and buy water from a neighboring state would be rather stupid with Lake Lanier being in place and the lines and treatment plants are already in place. The solution is to get Congress to reject the water use rules. We are using Lake Lanier right now and it is above level.
Only Congress will be able to fix this problem. Florida has it’s own problems. We have the water. We are using the water. The democratic fed just decided that we can’t use it any more.
There is nothing that they won’t do to hurt any state that doesn’t support them.
Like every single issue, it is simply about politics.
I’m writing FOX News about it almost every day. I hope it becomes another giant hammer for the Republicans next year.
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
11:32 am
Paul
In defense of the cop, I would have done the same thing. First, you try to gain compliance thru non-force methods like talking and strong suggestions. Once I’m kicked or punched in the nads, all bets are off. I don’t carry a Taser, but I do have pepper spray. I think she was better off kicking him than kicking me. That stun wears off in a few minutes, but the oc sting can last almost an hour.
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:34 am
jewcowboy
**wouldn’t it logically follow that a red Congress wouldn’t help a blue city**
The entire state uses that water.
Normal
November 20th, 2009
11:35 am
Been out getting hot and sour soup and a couple of eggrolls.
Gotta ask, Paul. The taser incident. Loery, I’da loved one when my kids were teens. Any Jim Kirk used to put his Phaser on stun, so why can’t we? HaHa.
Jewcowby, Jim Olen, huh? I’ll take a look at him, thanks.
Grumpy…it WAS all Bush’s fault…
Normal
November 20th, 2009
11:36 am
Paul, that’s Lordy and anyway Jim…can’t multitask anymore…
Nothing Is Free
November 20th, 2009
11:36 am
ABM
**I think she was better off kicking him than kicking me.**
Amen. But if she had been properly raised, he would have never had to be there.
jewcowboy
November 20th, 2009
11:38 am
Nothing Is Free,
“The democratic fed just decided that we can’t use it any more. ”
No, U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson ruled the Congress never authorized Atlanta’s use of Lake Lanier when it was built in the 1950’s. It was a court decision, not one that Congress made.
The fact of the matter is, GA has been tapping Lanier illegaly for decades and it has finally caught up. A water-sharing pact with FL-AL for the Hooch is a temporary solution, but GA needs to find a permanent solution, which involves expending money for more resevoirs.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
11:39 am
Dont know about God being a capitalists but he probably is.
I can, however, state Jesus was a Capricorn.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
11:40 am
The Oprah is ending her show. Perhaps the kenyan might appoint her Propoganda Czar.
AmVet
November 20th, 2009
11:41 am
As for the phobic Gwinnettian, I’m still chuckling at how you dupes got to foot the bill for that new stadium.
You guys got played like a 80 million dollar cheap fiddle…
Kind of a reverse irony for you anti-Marta boys, huh?
Normal
November 20th, 2009
11:42 am
Jesus was a Capricorn.
OH THAT”S RICH!!! HAHAHAHA
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
11:42 am
NIF
Amen to that. I’m willing to bet that she will think twice about disobeying mom now.
Paul
November 20th, 2009
11:45 am
ABM
I just wonder how cops handled unruly ten-year-olds before tasers.
Angry Black Man
November 20th, 2009
11:46 am
Paul
Turned their backs while mom/dad wore that a$$ out with a belt
Paul
November 20th, 2009
11:47 am
NIF
[[But if she had been properly raised, he would have never had to be there.]]
If you had kids who all turned out well with no hiccups along the way, count your blessings.
If you haven’t had kids… the Universe’ll get you!
Normal
November 20th, 2009
11:47 am
Paul
November 20th, 2009
11:45 am
ABM
I just wonder how cops handled unruly ten-year-olds before tasers.
Paul, like my dad handled me…Billy Bat accross the fanny…
Normal
November 20th, 2009
11:50 am
Paul, ABM: If you haven’t had kids… the Universe’ll get you!
This why I know there is a God and He has a sense of humor. I was blessed with more girls than boys, because I gave the fathers of daughters nightmares. He does get even…
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
11:52 am
“The poor you will have with you always”
“If a man will not work, let him not eat”
Joey
November 20th, 2009
11:53 am
Tall:
I agree that eveyone should spend some time in New York. But I think they should be required to spend half living on Manhattan and half living off the Island, say queens or Brooklyn.
Living in Queens or Brooklyn and commuting to Manhattan each day? Now that will wear you out. Walk 6, 9, 12 blocks to the subway. Wait for a local while the express trains rumble through. Ride the local to Manhattan, change trains to get to your destination. Then reverse your self at the end of the day.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 20th, 2009
11:54 am
Looks as though ObaMao is giving his blue State ee’s the ole heave-HO!!
Hawaii Sees 2009’s Biggest Layoffs Thursday
452 State Workers Lose Jobs In Latest Wave
SOUTHERN ATL
November 20th, 2009
11:55 am
Nothing is free@10:18
No we left the astrology up to the Reagans and it did not seem to work but we got more than enough rain with Sonny!
redneckbluedog
November 20th, 2009
12:49 pm
i sure hope you’re right. i remember when smyrna was smyrna and austell was austell and powder springs was powder springs…the good old days…
ATL
November 20th, 2009
1:40 pm
Sprawl does not equal progress anymore than weight equals health…
If the age of suburban sprawl is truly over then good riddance– it has given us
bad air, bad (or no) water and a hideous no mans land that is kind to neither cars
nor people… It is an experiment in living whose time has come and hopefully gone…
Tall
November 20th, 2009
2:01 pm
Joey:
I used to have an apartment on Roswell Road in Sandy Springs. The number 5 MARTA bus stopped there and ended at the Lindberg Station.
I’d get off there and go a stop back up to Lenox to my former office.
I lived in Atlanta for three years without a car. No fun, but I accomplished my goal. As for NYC, I’ve taken trains everywhere. My last apartment was closest to the E and A lines on Eighth Avenue.
Happy Weekend everyone!!!
Sunshine and Thunder
November 20th, 2009
2:47 pm
Jay,
You want job growth to return to Atlanta? Maybe you should try to get job growth to return to America. For that you need to get rid of 4 of the dimocrat party’s favorite things:
1. Punitive tax rates
2. Over regulation
3. Union wage scales
4. Threat of litigation
Corey
November 20th, 2009
3:16 pm
A nation which reads at a sixth grade level can only think of the old defunct Soviet Union when they hear “socialism.” They do not think of Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Finland, England, France, Germany the Netherlands and Canada. These horrible socialist nations are our allies, and they will fight to defend us. You gasp.
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
4:03 pm
Corey:
Sorry, but we had to save their butts twice (it was called WWI and WWII).
Jake
November 20th, 2009
4:33 pm
Corey – Maybe that’s because not a single country you list is currently considered a socialist nation. Perhaps you’re mistaking nations with socialized medicine for socialist countries.
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
4:36 pm
To Jake:
Maybe this will help Corey the “knucklehead” …………….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries
Algonquin J. Calhoun
November 20th, 2009
5:34 pm
Let’s have the war crimes trial for George W. Hitler in New York too!
hryder
November 20th, 2009
5:43 pm
Only 1400 premium paying jobs. This translates into well over 14,000 nonpremium employment jobs. Most people in this country need to become cognizant of basic statistics. If this would ever occur most would know that the majority of people are not capable of meeting the requirements of performing satisfactorly in a premium paying job. The reality is, as a well known kiddie lit story indicates, we can not all be firemen.
Bill White
November 20th, 2009
5:46 pm
Your honorable governor prayed for rain and guess what? It came, you September 10th Secular Progressive McFlys! You need to thank the Lord Almighty that He answered the distress call and replenished the great state with the resource. This is proof positive that there’s a Lord who created Us and now watches over Us in our time of need. It goes to show if you lead a Christ-centered life, He will deliver. Poor Liberal Jay cries about the God-fearing suburbs, exurbs and rural areas-as if they need to cease their existence. Quite the opposite: The Godless big cities are in decay and with bleak futures. The Lord Almighty will be sure to nourish those who respect Him by seeking comfort and guidance through Him.
Common Sense
November 20th, 2009
6:10 pm
Headline: “The Louisiana Purchase – $100 Million Payoff to Buy Sen. Landrieu’s Vote”
That would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic …………….
Sluggo
November 20th, 2009
6:10 pm
Sprawl in the outer counties is dead.
If the city of Atlanta does not get over it’s recto-cranial inversion it will be back as citizens and businesses leave the crime and incompetence of the city. Problems in real estate are more of a threat to the city than to the suburban counties. Thousands of empty condos are DOA. Property values are not going to rise. Unless the city can increase the quality of life enough to hold onto it’s citizens, Atlanta is facing another declining decade.
samuel
November 20th, 2009
6:42 pm
To Sunshine and Thunder, Ronald Reagan’s first term tax cuts and deregulation not only did not create jobs, but they cost the economy jobs. Under Reagan, we had 10 consecutive months of 10%+ unemployment, from September 1982 to June 1983. Also, the highest annual unemployment we’ve had in almost 70 years happened under Reagan (9.7% in 1982, 9.6% in 1983). For unemployment figures, simply log on to the website of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. To Common Sense and Jake, all the countries that Corey mentioned do indeed practice democratic socialism. I’ve been to some of them and I can assure you that the people in these countries live as well, if not better, than the average American. They are also more likely to be bi-lingual, if not multilingual and much more open-minded and less dogmatic than white southerners like you two. Also, it was Germany that was the instigator of both WWI and WWII. Nazi Germany in particular, had much of the same mentality that white Southerners and conservatives in general have, including hostility toward people who are different from them, an intolerance for poor and disabled people, and a general “only the strong survive” mentality, which leads to predatory behavior, on a local, regional, national and international level.
Bill White
November 20th, 2009
11:38 pm
@Samuel How wrong you are, you latte-sipping unmanly intellectual NY Times-reading Secular Progressive. Followers of un-Christian Darwin form the basis for dictators like Hitler, Castro, Chavez and Hussein’s evil work. Those of us in the Southern US love freedom and embrace life. Those tenets form the basis of the fruits of our modern successful lifestyles that we enjoy throughout the US. If you love Communism + Socialism so much, I’ll help you pack your bags and ship your liberal Communist butt to Cuba-a country that loves health care, hates God and kills you if you disagree with its Dear Communist Leader.
Under the honorable Ronald Wilson Reagan, we enjoyed the longest and largest economic expansion in peaceful times. Now I loved HW Bush, but that Godless Democratic Congress made him raise taxe$. Bill Clinton then raised taxe$, broke the economy with predatory lending which led to the huge recession thayt the honorable GW Bush inherited. We never recovered from Godless Communist Bill Clinton’s Socialistic economy. GW instituted only two tax cut$, but the far left media and gov’t stopped him from instituting more necessary tax cut$. @Samuel, it’s my money! I want to keep it so that I can hire more people! Please don’t patronize me by telling me that I must let the feds confiscate my cash and guns. President Reagan stuck to his principles and expanded this great nation to heights that we never saw in our history.
Now we have your. President Hussein Nobama leading us to record deficets, unemployment, Godlessnesss, rising crime and a social agenda filled with debauchery and a disrespect for the flag and life.
This president and his administration is an utter disgrace. Theyy kowtow to dictators and terrorists-thus putting us at risk.
God help us with clueless seculars like you, Samuel. The South has risen and will rise even more with its awesome climate and low taxes. We plan to opt-out of the Hussein Nobama plans. Instead, we will be number one under great men like Governor Huckabee and Haley Barbour, a man of amazing talent and character.
Tim
November 21st, 2009
2:54 pm
It’s long over due… Atlanta has to park the car and focus on mass transit. Come on we are a world class city with second class transportation. If you look at every city in the world that has the population that we have, you will see that they have mass transit systems.
Atlanta start building up stop building out.
JD
November 27th, 2009
11:03 pm
Lived ITP (Decatur) for 15 years: 3 car break-ins, 1 house break-in, exhorbitant taxes, huge monthly fees for water and trash. Since moving to Gwinnett 15 years ago: 0 car break-ins, 0 house break-ins, fair taxes, private water and sewer at much cheaper rates. Only downside is I have to drive 10 miles more each day for this peace of mind. I would make the same decision again, and again, and again.
Stop your proselytizing, Jay. People who know better will call you to the carpet on it. Oh wait. I forgot you carry the carpet over your shoulder!
Sprawl is bad. Atlanta Beltline is good. | A is for Atlanta
January 15th, 2010
10:03 am
[...] the “paper” version), and I came across a fantastic piece from Jay Bookman, entitled: The Phenomenon of Sprawl Has Passed Into History. [...]