The phenomenon of sprawl has passed into history

Sprawl is dead. It’s roadkill, you might say.

And unlike movie zombies, the growth phenomenon that once defined the metro region is not going to spring back to life. In Atlanta and most other places, the sprawl era that began with post-war Levittown, N.Y. and eventually redrew the American landscape and mindset has now passed into history.

Now, that doesn’t mean that the suburbs created by sprawl will disappear or even decline. To the contrary, for many they remain great places to live and raise a family, and that won’t change. Once the economy recovers, a lot of suburbs will resume growth through infill development and increased density, although they will become increasingly urban in the process.

However, the conversion of vast tracts of far-flung greenspace into suburban housing — that has ended. The larger postwar demographic trends, economics, lifestyle choices and government subsidies that drove that trend have all petered out, and without them, large-scale sprawl will end as well.

The evidence of that transition is stark. Today, if you fly over or drive around the outer suburbs of metro Atlanta, you’ll find tens of thousands of vacant lots, cleared and ready for houses. Many of those empty lots — some complete with paved roads, sewer, water and utilities — will never see development and are destined to be reclaimed by nature, reverting to pasture or forest.

The industry that generated those lots has vanished as well, never to reassemble in such numbers. The mortgage brokers who stood ready to close loans in those subdivisions are instead collecting unemployment or selling shoes. The developers who bet their futures on those home lots have gone bankrupt, and the Hispanic carpenters and laborers who would have built them have gone, disappearing as quickly and mysteriously as they appeared. Many of the commercial banks that financed those projects have also gone under.

Now, it’s tempting to dismiss all that change as the temporary result of a deep recession. If that were true, the sprawl industry would likely reassemble once the economy picks up. But it won’t.

Even before the recession hit, the sprawl model of growth was showing serious strains in metro Atlanta. Admittedly, it was hard to see at the time. The U.S. Census Bureau, for example, reported that from July 2000 to July 2008, six of the 15 fastest growing counties in the country could be found here in the 28-county Atlanta metro region.

By the end of that eight-year stretch, however, the Atlanta boom had cooled considerably. By July 2007 to July 2008, none of the 15 fastest growing counties were in metro Atlanta. The only two metro counties to even make the top 50 were Forsyth at No. 16 and Paulding at No. 40.

The boom machine, however, was too busy making money to notice that slackening of demand. By July 2007, almost 240,000 lots were coming on line for development in north metro Atlanta alone, according to Metrostudy, a real-estate data and analysis company. This, in a market where annual new home sales barely averaged 30,000, even during the boom.

What accounts for that shift? A lot of it is the free market at work. Younger people forming households of their own are more interested in urban living than in recreating their suburban upbringing, and many older Americans are also looking to downsize their living arrangements. The rising cost of commuting and energy to heat and cool large homes are having an impact as well.

Government’s declining ability to subsidize farflung suburbia has also had an effect. In Atlanta and other areas, the transportation infrastructure needed to shorten commuting times and thus extend the suburban model still farther from the core is no longer practical or affordable; it has become a struggle just to service already developed areas.

For a while, the flood of easy mortgages, cheap immigrant labor and big profits disguised those profound changes taking place nationally. Here in metro Atlanta, it disguised something else as well.

Long before the recession began, the metro region’s job-creating capacity was already more myth than reality. A lot of people were moving here, but jobs weren’t. According to Rajeev Dhawan, director of the Economic Forecasting Center at Georgia State University, by 2008 the 28-county area had produced an average of just 1,400 premium-paying jobs a year since 2002.

No doubt many of those jobs were generated by the sprawl industry, the result of a boom that we now know to have been based on a false foundation. Metro Atlanta’s economic challenges, in other words, aren’t likely to end when this terrible recession does.

234 comments Add your comment

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
7:39 am

May it rest in peace!

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
7:40 am

Shorter wingnut response:

“Why do you want to force me to live in Manhattan with Those People, Komrade Jay?”

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
7:41 am

I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful.

Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.

AmVet

November 20th, 2009
7:42 am

Yeah, the Atlanta exurbs are a wasteland. I’m sure as hell glad I don’t live in Cumming and face an hour plus commute to work and an hour and a half drive home EVERY day and night.

That’s unless I leave ho me at 5AM to beat the “rush” and then work until 7:30 to go start home.

Fools…

No wonder road rage is so popular here.

The idiot boy in Jesus’ clothes is at it again.

And some of you morons probably voted for this clown, er excuse me, battle hardened US Marine. (I thought lying was one of those ten non nos…)

“Islam is a violent, I was going to say religion, but it’s not a religion. It’s a political system,” Robertson said. “It’s a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world and world domination. That is the ultimate aim.”

jt

November 20th, 2009
7:45 am

“Why do you want to force me to live ITP with Those People, Komrade Jay?”

Normal

November 20th, 2009
7:46 am

Jay, you paint a bleak picture, but I see the truth in it. Atlanta in particular and Georgia are going to need that “responsible leadership”. Wonder where they will find that?

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
7:49 am

“Why do you want to force me to live ITP with Those People, Komrade Jay?”

heh. You know, after I posted it, I was thinking that this approach would’ve been more effective. Kudos.

(However, being that I’m a longtime Atrios fan, the notion that any discussion of sprawl inevitably leads to someone griping that we’ll all be forced to live in Manhattan has become a kind of running joke/Godwin kinda deal.)

Jay used blogroll to Atrios, but I guess he either got tired of it or found it irksome–he never said why he dropped the link, though.

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
7:50 am

The shorthand over at Atrios for such discussion is to simply refer to any somewhat densely populated place as an “urban hellhole.” Also.

AmVet

November 20th, 2009
7:50 am

Normal, are you insinuating that Pray for Rain was not a model leader in the Republican style?

After all, he brought us….and he resolved that….and he implemented….

Oh yeah, the Go Fish campaign!

A paragon of accomplishments, that one…

Normal

November 20th, 2009
7:54 am

AmVet: no, what I was saying is that Pray For Rain WAS the role model in the Republican style…Thus the problem. :D

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
7:55 am

Well thats good to hear!! Lower demand should bring lower prices and Booger is planning no less than 50% down payment for his Mini-Castle!

ITP is pretty much a hellhole except for N Fulton.

On another note…Apparently the medical community motorhead have viewed the issue of cervical exams incorrectly for years as they did with mammograms. OR is it a little arm twisting from the kenyan?

Well regardless this is just a small taste of thing to come with ObaMaoCare.

This whole ObaMaoCare issue should be scrapped. It will cost far more than its worth and raise taxes on everyone. And my profits are more important than your children, health and happiness.

Get a job ya squirrels.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
7:55 am

Chill out Repubs…that was a joke. This thing is bigger than Sonny…

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
7:55 am

stands for decibels

**I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful. Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.**

I can’t prove you wrong, but I would add that it was also close minded and really, really ignorant, but I do agree that it was also hateful. But hey, it’s not like you have any credibility here, anyway. Look at how dumb your first post was.

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
7:57 am

ITP is pretty much a hellhole

Thanks, Booger Lemonade–I knew I could count on you.

Peadawg

November 20th, 2009
7:57 am

Normal, a lot of people were looking for leadership from Obama, but sadly he hasn’t accomplished much of anything since he’s been in office. Troops are still overseas and jobs are still a rare thing to come by.

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
7:57 am

And they’re off………….

Normal

November 20th, 2009
7:59 am

Peadawg…I can’t fault you there. You are absolutely right.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
7:59 am

Normal

More governmental leadership? How about if we all man-up and start trying to move away from the government fixing (destroying) everything?

And what is the problem with praying for rain? Would it had been better if Purdue would have checked an astrology chart? You guys need top open up those minds a little. Some folks DO think differently than you.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:00 am

Good Morning Mrs G. I hope you are happy and well.

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:00 am

The people begin a change and it’s well underway. How long for the politicians to recognize it, then appropriately modify it?

And how long for the voters to change the clueless politicians?

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:01 am

NIF, thank you for that sermon, when do you pass out the bread and wine?

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:01 am

More taxes for you…

here’s a list of some of the new taxes that are in the 2074 page senate health care bill. wonder how many more there are in this bill and the house 1900+ pages. these taxes will take effect on passage but the health care will not begin until 2014. does anyone actually believe that this can work for the benefit of the American people? the egos of the people who came up with this piece of garbage is amazing. they should be booted out in the street asap.
Individual Mandate Tax = Income Surtax
Employer Mandate Tax
40% tax on “Cadillac” Health Insurance plans
Medicine Cabinet Tax (has to do with HSA/FSA accts)
HSA withdrawal tax hike
Excise tax on charitable hospitals
Tax on Innovator Drug companies
Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
Tax on Cosmetic Surgery
Higher Payroll Tax on Upper Income
Tax on Health Insurers
Elimination of tax deductions for employer provided retirement drug coverage
Hike in Medicare Payroll Taxes
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax hike

And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:02 am

JAy

You may accept that America is in a decline. And as long as Washington is like it is now, we are declining, but Obama only has three more years, so we will be fine after that.

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:02 am

G’morning, Mrs. Godzilla

My, my, you were up early this morning! All excited about the New Moon opening?

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:02 am

And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.

…and that says it all…

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:03 am

Normal

Just trying to convince you to be more accepting of others, Pal. Why can’t we all just get along?

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:04 am

Boogers 8:01

Shouldn’t Conservatives thank Liberals for following conservative philosophy (not necessarily conservative actions) by paying for services, rather than implementing services and funding them by going in debt?

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:04 am

Morning Normal…..

Can we have Fruday night steak night in Normalville like we do
in Lizardton?

Just heard CNN talk about the Afghan War tax…….

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:05 am

Friday Friday Friday

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:06 am

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:02 am

Says all you need to know, brother.

Dont be such a sour-puss. Invest in the market and make some of YOUR OWN PROFITS. Or are ya too scared…hmm.

RISK/REWARD!!

PS…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:07 am

WHAT??!! No wine???

From all of the things my Christian relatives told me, the one I remember most is God only answers prayers given in private and on your knees. Sonny’s praying was a political shot, no more, no less. He just became a bigger a–hole at that time.

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:08 am

Paul

Always up early…I am a morning person.

I fade fast after 9 pm.

If they can get Bela Lugosi to reprise his role I might be at least
curious……otherwise it’s a Jason movie with bigger teeth.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:08 am

Normal

**And remember…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.**

Who says that? Conservatives actually HAVE their children. My profits fed my children and I paid taxes that feed other children and my Church feeds lots and lots of children.

Man, you gotta open up that mind and start looking around. Conservatives are the ones that are concerned with children. Red and yellow black or white, they are precious in his sight . .
And that’s the old version that isn’t talking about Obama.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:09 am

Mrs. G. It’s your store…go for it. What’s this Afghan war tax?

jt

November 20th, 2009
8:09 am

Speaking of taxes. Good thing we can rely on a “real” news source.
From Taranto———

Number of AP reporters assigned to story:
• ObamaCare bills: 2
• Palin book: 11

Number of pages in document being covered:
• ObamaCare bills: 4,064
• Palin book: 432

Number of pages per AP reporter:
• ObamaCare bill: 2,032
• Palin book: 39.3

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:10 am

Paul

This will Break the bank. The kenyan is such a dullard. Your taxes are gonna be raised. So take that to the bank also.

PS…MY PROFITS are more important than your children, your health and/or happiness.

OH…there’s your sign.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:12 am

Narmal

No wine? It’s 8 oclock in the morning. How about some Tropicana Pure Premium?

And see, the deal about your family and they way they pray is what I am talking about. I was taught to pray whenever and where ever necessary. And please don’t tell me that a politician was political. Or is that just for Democrats?

mike

November 20th, 2009
8:12 am

“**I know, my post @ 7.40 was a tad hateful. Prove me wrong, conservatives. Please.**”

So a hateful individual is demanding that 40% of the country “prove” that they are not hateful.

Makes sense to me.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:12 am

NIF, Booger said that and I was commenting on it. Booger’s Scrooge. He believes in profits over people. I don’t.

And Booger, I’ve done quite well away from the market and I wasn’t hurt when it fell. I was tempted to invest when it was lower, but my old fashioned savings plan is still working just fine. But thank you for your concern for my profits…

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:12 am

jt 8:09

If you’re a ‘news’ organization, ya’ gotta’ get your priorities straight.

And to know the difference between cheerleading, attacking and…. reporting?

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
8:14 am

Shouldn’t Conservatives thank Liberals for following conservative philosophy (not necessarily conservative actions) by paying for services, rather than implementing services and funding them by going in debt?

Paul, as I was listening to a discussion of one particular part of the healthcare bill — the establishment of a more autonomous role for MedPac — and it got me wondering something very similar. Actual fiscal conservatives–of which I like to think of myself as a member–have been talking about real entitlement reform for forever.

Well, empowering an autonomous organization the power to actually control costs, instead of leaving it up to the tender mercies of whatever lobbying group manages to grab the ear of whatever Congresscritter–that seems like pretty major-league entitlement reform to me.

And if what I’d heard was correct, it’s something that the GOP used to support.

here’s a bit about the panel — and no, it is not specific to what’s in the Senate bill, but it will give an idea of what’s being attempted, and what likely will emerge from legislation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/health/policy/14medpac.html

mike

November 20th, 2009
8:14 am

jt –

Saw that.Taranto is great. I thought his mention of this story from Obama’s trip to China was funny:

“”I’m a big supporter of non-censorship,” Obama said. “I recognize that different countries have different traditions. I can tell you that in the United States, the fact that we have free Internet–or unrestricted Internet access–is a source of strength, and I think should be encouraged.” . . .

Chinese bloggers who saw it were grateful that he addressed censorship, but many zeroed in on what they considered Obama’s waffling language.

“Learn English from Obama: Instead of saying ‘I want to eat,’ say ‘I am a big supporter of non-hunger,’ ” Wang Pei, a writer based in eastern China’s Hangzhou, twittered on Tuesday.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704204304574545733826430664.html

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:15 am

Boogers

My point was, Democrats proposed a new program and they also proposed taxes to pay for it, {something we did not regularly see when Republicans had the Congress and Presidency). Given that Republicans portray themselves as the party of fiscal conservatism, which includes paying for that which you do, my question was, shouldn’t Conservatives applaud Liberals for saying “this is what we want to do and this is how we will pay for it,” not condemn them?

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:16 am

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:18 am

sfd 8:14

Thanks for the link. Everything is so topsy-turvy ya’ gotta’ pretty much toss out the old views of who believes what and who does what, eh?

@@

November 20th, 2009
8:20 am

Infill? Is that when somebody buys an $850,000 home on a half acre lot, only to tear the house down to build a nicer one? Someone I know just did that.

Talk about money to burn!!?!!

Timing’s right for me. 5 or 6 more years….I’ll be looking at Sweet Home (south) Alabama. 40 acres and a horse or two.

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:21 am

mike 8:14

[[“”I’m a big supporter of non-censorship,” Obama said.]]

I guess that’s why Pres Obama backed off from his administration’s shunning of Fox News and granted them an interview when he was on his China trip, so some Chinese student at the town hall didn’t say “Mr. President, if you support non-censorship then why does your administration seek to diminish the voices of those who disagree with you?”

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:23 am

Normal

I was just giving you a hard time. They screwed up this song with the video, but here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZavcU5hlA

chuck allison

November 20th, 2009
8:23 am

As I look out over the beautiful hay field in front of my house with the Canadian geese, the silos, the beautiful pine and hardwood forests, and the starry nights, I can only hope you are correct and that the subdivisions will never venture out here. Other folks can stay in their filthy, crime-ridden cities if they wish, and rural Americans can enjoy the good life. We will send you a post card, Jay.

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:24 am

Mrs. G @ 08:16

Interesting. I see no Republicans are supporting it, so do you think that this might be a Democrat ploy to end the war quicker. Nothing gets people against a problem than the threat of higher taxes…

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:25 am

NIF, thanks. I’ll look at it when I get home. Work doesn’t like youtube.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:26 am

chuck allison

Home run!!

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:27 am

Normal

It’s Oh what a beautiful Morning, so it won’t have the same impact, but I tried.

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:27 am

Normal

I sure hope so…..

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:28 am

NIF, From “Oklahoma”. Loved that play…

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:29 am

Mrs. G. Me too!

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:30 am

Normal

November 20th, 2009
8:12 am

Nothing wrong with a good ole fashioned savings account, Booger also has one of those! I believe in PROFITS for everyone!

Paul, to answer your question…No. This silly OboboCare will break the bank. All these taxes on big business will just send big business running for tax cover loopholes and more importantly they will lay-off employees to finance the tax or lower their tax threshold.

But lettuce remember the most important thing and thats MY PROFITS!

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
8:31 am

filthy, crime-ridden cities

Failure to refer to them as “hellholes.” 15-yard penalty.

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:33 am

Theres you sign.

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:33 am

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
8:31 am

LOL!!

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:34 am

Normal

Ray Charles does a version with the Count Basie Band. It’s on itunes, but not Utube. Spend a buck and download it. It’s Ray at his best.

I sent you a Glenn Miller version. Not bad.

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:35 am

Theres you sign……there’s your sign.

(disclaimer I am a terrible speller)

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:39 am

Bosch

November 20th, 2009
8:39 am

Nice article Jay. Couldn’t agree more. In the World According to Bosch, alternative fuel options includes re-doing the way we plan communities: more bike paths, more stores you can walk to, and even like Peachtree City – more golf cart paths (I want a golf cart sooo bad). We’ve created communities and planned cities with very limited public transportation, or made it where driving is the only option. And change some zoning laws where businesses can operate in already existing structures (like houses, if need be). This solves many problems: obesity, fuel, and people getting to know their neighbors.

Anywho…….my two cents this morning.

Bosch

November 20th, 2009
8:42 am

Paul,

My daughter is so excited – we had to watch the Jay Leno Show last night just because of that movie – talk about torture. Luckily, she has a friend with a crazy mother who is taking them tonight. Good lord, I wouldn’t be caught within a 100 yards of a movie theater tonight.

Bruno

November 20th, 2009
8:43 am

H. Hebe

November 20th, 2009
8:45 am

Bomb squad investigating suspicious package at The Temple

*
On Oct. 12, 1958, a dynamite blast blew a hole in the side of The Temple. No one was injured in the early morning blast.

Authorities suspected five men were responsible for the bombing, but only one stood trial, and he was acquitted.*

Anti-semitism has been around a long time, eh?

stands for decibels

November 20th, 2009
8:45 am

I guess I should post something calming and positive in response to Jay’s piece before departing, so here goes.

Believing that poorly constructed and poorly planned exurban communities — which aren’t really communities at all, it’s more like whatever some developer managed to rape-and-scrape on the cheap — were and are unsustainable, is not equal to shoving everyone into an “urban hellhole.”

There are many examples of perfectly nice, walkable suburban communities that have sprung up, some by design, some in a more chaotic fashion. If people want to live there that’s swell. I’ve only spent a very short time, myself, living within the actual city limits of a major American city; I’ve always found that circumstances dictated living in either a bedroom community or something closer to what might be called an exurb (I’m OTP these days.)

However, I will say that having been in very densely populated places and places where half- to whole-acre lots are the norm, I am almost certain my next residence will be in the former.

Put another way, I read a lot of the “Little House” books and, at an early age, came to believe that Pa’s need to continually pull up stakes and move the family away from other people bordered on the psychotic. But that was just me.

Paul

November 20th, 2009
8:49 am

Bosch

I have tickets for 1:00! Went yesterday to check out the cinema (new, stadium seating, all digital) and saw 2012 (just enjoy the special effects and suspend belief in plot devices). Glad I went – the seating behind the aisleway was too close – like sitting 5 ft away from a 60″ plasma screen. Further back is better to see that huge screen.

Couldn’t believe Dakota Fanning on Leno. She’s 15 – then they showed that clip of her as a Volturi – yikes! The way her whole persona changed – she’s quite an actress (as opposed to my sister’s observation about Jennifer Aniston: “she plays herself in whatever role she’s in – you’re always aware it’s Jennifer Aniston”).

Hey! Two and a Half Men last night: Six was on as Charlie Sheen’s fiancee’s distraught college roommate. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:50 am

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
8:39 am

Ugh…sea snot? thanks I think.

PS…Rachel is a hotty!

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
8:51 am

“Jennifer Aniston: “she plays herself in whatever role she’s in – you’re always aware it’s Jennifer Aniston”).”

How true! She’s a bit mousy looking…its no wonder Brad left her in the lerch.

Joey

November 20th, 2009
8:52 am

Jay;
Over the last 20-odd years you have written hundreds of sprawl and ant-suburb articles. I have never agreed with you on any of them. This is no exception.

Over the last year or so Developers and Home Builders with a national presence have been quietly buying up these tens of thousands of lots that are out there. They are getting them from banks for 30 to 35 cents-on-the-dollar. Other investor groups with adequate cash are doing the same.

When the new home market comes back these groups will be poised to meet the demand for homes and make tons of money building homes on discounted lots. These existing lots will have to be absorbed before any new development can take place. Also there are plenty of subdivisions that are designed, shovel ready if you choose, where lots can be brought on line in 3 to 5 months.

Almost of these existing lots and shovel ready subdivision are in the suburbs and exurbs. Some may return to nature, but it will be a very low number.

I could make this as long as your post, but I won’t. I would add some points that I think are givens.
1. Most people do not make their home choice based on the length of commute. Instead they choose based on where they want to raise their children.
2. In commuting, people who have a choice choose convenience over public transit. Public transit is almost never convenient or faster. Driving one’s personal vehicle is the most convenient way to commute.
3. The only way to force people to use public transit is to eliminate parking at their destination. Not going to happen in metro Atlanta.
4.Because the National Builders will have, already have, a monopoly on existing lots, entrepreneurial builders will be frozen out. That means the local home builders will be working for the Big Builder Industry.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:53 am

i will admit that it is sort of crazy. You have places like Mechanicsville, where you could walk to the Georgia Pacific building, but Machanicsville is an old “Great Society” Ghetto. So is the crime infested crap hole that runs along Boulevard, but right now, people are fighting traffic to drive downtown from Woodstock.

The answer is to clean up the city, like the more advanced cities in the world are doing. It means more tax revenues and less dependents. It’s not really politically correct, but it certainly cleaned up Georgia tech when they got rid of Techwood Homes.

Angry Black Man

November 20th, 2009
8:55 am

No more spraw? Say it isn’t so!!! Maybe people have come to their senses after all. Is this the Hope in the “Hope and Change”? I never understood why the metro area continued it’s big bang demonstration by expanding further and further away from the center without addressing meaningful transportation options. I laugh at people who want to move away from problems, but have a 2+ hour commute to work. That’s a sign of stupidity if I ever saw one. I had to do that for a while because of a job transfer, but that didn’t last too long, and I refused to make that drive every day. I used MARTA whenever I could to avoid sitting in traffic.

Normal

You asked for effective leadership.

Survey Says!!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:55 am

Boogers for the Children Fund

**She’s a bit mousy looking…its no wonder Brad left her in the lerch.**

I would take Jennifer any day over that saggy looking, prison tattoo covered winch that he is married to now. That woman used to be beautiful, but she is aging horribly.

zeke

November 20th, 2009
8:58 am

May sprawl forever continue to grow and give people safe, realistic places to live, raise families and be removed from the blight and crime of urbanism!

Joey

November 20th, 2009
8:59 am

Jay or anyone who knows. I am interested in why Jay put the “T-B*g” label on the “do not use” list. After allowing its use for months, this makes no sense to me.

Joey

November 20th, 2009
9:01 am

I read this in a newletter a few years ago.
SPRAWL:
Successfully Providing Residences, Amenities and Workplaces Locally.

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
9:03 am

“I laugh at people who want to move away from problems, but have a 2+ hour commute to work. That’s a sign of stupidity if I ever saw one. I had to do that for a while because of a job transfer, but that didn’t last too long, and I refused to make that drive every day. I used MARTA whenever I could to avoid sitting in traffic.”

LOL…Glad to see you are in your usual “good” mood.

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
9:05 am

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
8:55 am

Well you may be in luck. Jenn cant find a date nor keep a lover. This could be your chance my friend…go on, take a chance and give her a call. Your chances are as good as anyone elses.

Angry Black Man

November 20th, 2009
9:07 am

Boogers

I haven’t had my coffee yet. I’ll be singing “Zip-da-dee-doo-daa” in about 1/2hour. LOL!!

Normal

November 20th, 2009
9:09 am

Safe in the suburbs.

November 20th, 2009
9:04 am

bless your heart…

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
9:10 am

Safe in the suburbs.

November 20th, 2009
9:04 am

LMAO…Stayin in the burbs also. Ya couldnt pay me to live in that crime infested rat/hellhole that is downtown Atlanta, Atlantic Station and all the other supposed up-scale “in-town” living.

I hear In-Town suites will be constructing a huge downtown Atlanta megaplex for the “downtrodden”.

Bosch

November 20th, 2009
9:10 am

Write this date down – NIF and Bosch agree on something:

“That woman used to be beautiful, but she is aging horribly.”

Paul,

You are seeing it today? They’ll be time this afternoon before Traveling Music for a report.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
9:12 am

Boogers for the Children Fund

I’m taken. But if I weren’t, I’m sure I have the same chance that getalife has for Carrie Prajean.

So what else do you read in “The Star”.

Bosch

November 20th, 2009
9:13 am

Joey,

I too was surprised at that choice of word banning, but it might have something to do with the other, nothing to do with the actual drinking of tea or protesting tea, definition of the word.

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
9:14 am

Boogers

That was a sub…..Rachel is attractive also, especially to her partner Susan.

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
9:16 am

Bosch

I think it may be that permanent pucker that she has. I think the collagen is beginning to harden. And let me tell you: those lips aren’t the only things that are sagging.

Ward

November 20th, 2009
9:19 am

You may be right, and if so, hooray. Nonetheless, as the surburban infill maxes out, property values will rise, pushing people further out again. And don’t presume that the ITP/OTP debate is valid any more. I’ve lived ITP for 25 years and spent the last 10 driving 20 miles to my OTP jobs. That’s gonna have to change. The jobs are not downtown anymore, as anyone at the AJC well knows.

Joey

November 20th, 2009
9:19 am

Bosch;
O.K. it has something to do with the sexual reference. But why allow it for months and months, then suddenly ban it.

My thought, Tea-B*gger was banned because no one objected to its use as a derogatory label any longer?

getalife

November 20th, 2009
9:21 am

Yeah, the cons are more sane when the talk is not about politics.

Last time I was in Atlanta, the traffic was worse in Gwinnett County.

Paul

November 20th, 2009
9:24 am

First off, I have no desire to know the slang meaning of the bagger thing. I’d understood Tea in teaparty was for Taxed Enough Already.

So a derogatory slang term with weird sexual reference came into being?

And this came from the Liberal Left?!!?

Noah

November 20th, 2009
9:26 am

Joey:

1. The trend is that more and more people are choosing a home that has a shorter commute and it makes sense. Why have a huge yard and house but never get to see your children because you are stuck in traffic. More and more people are also realizing they don’t need such a big house and that even that they don’t want such a big house, I know many people in this boat.

2. People use public transit every day and as gas creeps up to $4 and $5 a gallon more and more will. Even if you commute by car, 5 or 10 miles sure beats 50 miles.

Bubba

November 20th, 2009
9:26 am

Sprawl, aka progress, is not dead, even thought the government looters are doing their best to kill it. Personally, I like living in the suburbs, where I can go to the grocery store without getting ‘jacked.Oh, but living intown is so trendy!

Boogers for the Children Fund

November 20th, 2009
9:27 am

Nothing Is Free

November 20th, 2009
9:12 am

Star? Too expensive. In order to keep up with national/international news/events I consult The National Enquirer!

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
9:29 am

Paul

No that nasty definition has been around for years.

It’s gay slang and since there are both R and D gay folks…..I
call the term centrist? Hell, the nose is in the center of the face….

(Forgive me)

tscali

November 20th, 2009
9:29 am

logic doesn’t exist in the left. unnecessary destruction of the opposing party does. if terrorism creeps into urban havens, so be it. burn the bushes. it’s the right thing to do.

Eric Holder’s True Motive: The KSM Trial

**Is that the nub? To satisfy the revenge fantasies of American leftists who have lusted to put the Bush administration on trial, the Obama administration is willing to sacrifice logic, justice, national security, and honor?

When KSM’s star turn in the courtroom goes viral on the Internet and inspires thousands of new jihadis, the Obamaites can console themselves that at least they stuck it to George W. Bush.**

Mrs. Godzilla

November 20th, 2009
9:31 am

tscali

silly boy, if KSM goes all viral in the courtroom nobody will see it.

1st no cameras…..2nd the judge will “bobby seale” him

Angry Black Man

November 20th, 2009
9:31 am

Paul

I think the sexual meaning had been around a lot longer than the protests. The snicker snicker started when the protesters started being referred to as T**baggers. I think Jay was attempting to keep the conversation civil by banning all references. I’ve always referred to them as protesters. I refuse to call them baggers.

Bosch

November 20th, 2009
9:34 am

Joey,

Maybe like most of us, Jay didn’t know about it’s sexual reference until it was raised on the blog.

Paul,

I don’t think it was the liberal left, but someone whose interprets thing in a much more grotesque manner than you or I. :-)