China’s ascent traced back to Clinton-era trade deal
Harold Meyerson, at the Washington Post, traces the economic rise of China — and the relative decline of the United States, now deeply indebted to the Chinese — to a trade deal signed by President Clinton and then approved by Congress in 2000:
The U.S. trade deficit with China was roughly $60 billion in 1998, the year before we reached the accord granting China permanent normalized trade relations. Over the following decade, it ballooned to $268 billion, and tens of thousands of U.S. factories closed down. The trade deficit is the major reason China is awash in dollars — about 800 billion of them — and has become our largest creditor. And it is the major reason why boosting consumption in the United States, in an attempt to reverse the recession, has the peculiar effect of boosting production and employment in China just as much as if not more than happens at home….
So as we try to rebalance our relationship with China, let’s not entertain any illusions that our growing dependence on that nation was the result of an unalterable tectonic shift in global power. Our economic elites wanted the higher profits that came with cheaper Chinese labor. They prevailed, and today we are floundering to clean up their mess.
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237 comments Add your comment
Jimmy Carter
November 18th, 2009
4:21 pm
So it’s Clinton’s fault? Alriiiight
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:23 pm
ABM
No, we can’t have a party called the Crimson Tide.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
4:23 pm
“So it’s Clinton’s fault? Alriiiight”
Yeah, you’re off the hook, Jimmy.
I say we start up a new opium war with them. They’ll soon lose track of what we owe them.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:25 pm
Brusno
Did you see the post downstairs about last night. I’ll repost if you didn’t.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
4:25 pm
“Our economic elites wanted the higher profits that came with cheaper Chinese labor. They prevailed, and today we are floundering to clean up their mess. ”
And I say, Amen!!
Hard Right Hook
November 18th, 2009
4:26 pm
Must be a slow news day. Komrad Jay is looking for something positive to say about Der Schlickmeister.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
4:26 pm
“No, we can’t have a party called the Crimson Tide.”
I had a Crimson Tide Party on Saturday when they covered the spread handily. At this point, I think they can probably beat Florida.
What in the heck happened to the Vols last weekend, NIF?
jt
November 18th, 2009
4:26 pm
There has got to be a catch.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
4:27 pm
NIF
Awwwwwwwww maaaaaannnnnnn!! I’ve been working hard on the banners and bumper stickers too.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 18th, 2009
4:28 pm
Well, like I said before, all the jobs and wages been shipped to China so let China buy the stuff they make. Except for a few pairs of white socks and underwear I buy at WalMart for my monthly bath. Most of our own people now work in fast food places. So if China wants to buy some Whoppers, they need to come over here. Don’t forget to ask for the fries. The guy at the counter sometimes forgets to ask.
Have a good night everybody.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:30 pm
Bruno
*What in the heck happened to the Vols last weekend, NIF?**
What happened? We recruited three ghetto thugs, thats what happened. If they ever put on a Vol uniform again, the new coach made an enemy out of me. We had enough of that crap with Philip Fulmer.
With that Defensive coach we will have our choice of the best defensive players in the country, but they have GOT to crack down on their players.
Do you know what happened to the three players?
getalife
November 18th, 2009
4:32 pm
“Our economic elites wanted the higher profits that came with cheaper Chinese labor.”
We call them the establishment but if China bribed the corrupt Afghanistan gov to get their resources, they should send about 500,000 troops to protect their investment
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:32 pm
ABM
Well, it would carry Alabama.
I think you guys might have a good game on the 5th.
I never bet on games, because I can’t cheer for teams I don’t like, but I might drop a C-note on you guys.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:35 pm
Bruno
I’m not doing that tonight. I don’t have any work, so I’m heading for the living room and the big screen to watch Palin on Hanniity. I wish we got FOX in HD.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
4:35 pm
“Do you know what happened to the three players?”
Yes, but didn’t think it would affect the team’s performance so much. Prior to last weekend, they were looking respectable following the games with Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina and Memphis.
The spreads are getting ridiculous this week. I’m going to change my strategy of looking for favorites to cover and am searching for underdogs to keep it close.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
4:37 pm
All of a sudden my comments are being moderated.
Catch you all later.
jt
November 18th, 2009
4:39 pm
” Our economic elites wanted the higher profits that came with cheaper Chinese labor. ”
Too blame our deficit ONLY on cheaper Chinese labor,
and to ignore 32,000 pages of Federal Regulations,
and to ignore 30 pages of labor law attorneys in your local phonebook,
and to ignore one of the highest corp tax-rates in the world,
and to ignore “Government-backed unions”",
is disingenuis at best.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:42 pm
Bruno
Ole Miss knew we had a second stringer as a middle safety and they exploited it the entire game. the thugs were nice enough to rob the 7-11 store early enough in the week to give the Rebel couches time to plan for it. Wasn’t that nice?
I’m telling you Bruno. The entire state is completely PO’d. The SEC coaches invented the Fulmer award for the most serious crimes committed by players. Fulmer was an embarrassment to UT and this new coach better understand that. The little thugs need to be beaten properly and sent back home.
In other words, don’t get me started.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
4:46 pm
NIF
This is my long weekend. I’ll definitely be a couch potato this weekend. The lil sidekick was sick this weekend, so I didn’t get to enjoy the game like I wanted to. I’m looking foward to having some gator for dinner on the 5th.
On topic:
China is only the beginning. The seeds of cheap labor we planted years ago will bring India to the table too. I’d estimate, based on my own personal observations from work, that one in every three computer related jobs here in the US is either being performed by a native of India or has been outsourced to India. Right now, I’ve seen some foreign workers coming here and earning half of what companies would pay citizens here to perform the same job. By the time their country gets used to having that influx of jobs and money, it will be too late to stop that train too.
getalife
November 18th, 2009
4:52 pm
While silly Americans are arguing partisan, silly distractions, the establishment with the help of socialism, are making record profits:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/wall-street-profits-on-pa_n_361811.html
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
4:53 pm
ABM
Watching the games with the youngin’. Man, how are you going to beat that.
If the US knew what kind of top flight health treatment you an get in India for a fraction of the money, we would have no health system. There are “medical tourism” companies that will fly you over, spend WEEKS in a hospital that looks like a Ritz Carlton and give you surgery by top shelf doctors for about 1/10th of what it costs here. You get your own nurse, your record in the US stays clean. I know of two people who have gone over for cancer surgeries, are perfectly fine and cannot stop talking about how great they were treated.
But of course, there’s that big red dot in the middle of their foreheads . . . just kidding.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
4:56 pm
“The seeds of cheap labor we planted years ago will bring India to the table too. I’d estimate, based on my own personal observations from work, that one in every three computer related jobs here in the US is either being performed by a native of India or has been outsourced to India.”
What has set us apart from the rest of the world through the years, ABM, is our ingenuity, our inventiveness. With a larger global market in play, hopefully it will be our brains and the rest of the world’s brawn that will keep us on top. One difficulty with that scenario is that many foreign countries, China being one of them, have no respect for intellectual property rights. They steal our movies and crank out millions of DVDs without paying any royalties. Ditto for our software.
@@
November 18th, 2009
4:59 pm
In case Hillbilly Deluxe drops by, I left a comment for you on your H/T thread.
I noticed!
(ISH)
md
November 18th, 2009
5:00 pm
And to add to jt’s comment, the fact that China plays with funny money (theirs) doesn’t help either. Of course the flip side of the coin – if Walmart didn’t by cheap chinese goods, then the masses would be griping about prices, not to mention the fact that they wouldn’t be selling as much which would lead to less need for employees. etc, etc. Its lose-lose or win-win depending on which way one is looking at it.
ROLLERGIRL
November 18th, 2009
5:02 pm
GOV tries to cheap up on mammography, then realizes they got busted… (btw..finally something USEFUL to post from the ajc)
Sebelius: Women should get mammograms by age 40
WASHINGTON — Women should continue getting regular mammograms starting at age 40, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Wednesday, moving to douse confusion caused by a task-force recommendation two days earlier.
Sebelius issued her statement following a government panel’s recommendation on Monday, that said most women don’t need mammograms in their 40s and should get one every two years starting at 50.
That recommendation was a break with the American Cancer Society’s long-standing position that women should get screening mammograms starting at age 40.
The recommendations from the task force have left women across the country confused about which advice to take. It also quickly led to charges from opponents of changing health care policy that it is an example of what could be expected from government-managed care.
In its report the panel of doctors and scientists concluded that such early and frequent screenings often lead to false alarms and unneeded biopsies, without substantially improving women’s odds of survival.
But their recommendation was loudly criticized by breast cancer survivors who were diagnosed at a young age.
A few tens of thousands of breast cancer deaths in the sands of time, congressional dems say…We have to pay for this thing somehow, afterall.
Dusty
November 18th, 2009
5:04 pm
Well, everything is not being made in China. I had a new Kenmore built-in wall oven installed today. The instructions were printed in the USA. Half of it was in Spanish. Where was the oven made? CANADA! The installer was Asian-American and worked rapidly and efficiently. Americans do know how to work like that. There is still hope for us!!
Did anyone see Lehrer News Hour last night? There was a good discussion about the Chinese yearning for more freedom. Seems they enjoy a lot more in economic success but the communist government still rules with an “iron hand”. Discussing any “failures” of government(such as Tiainamin Square) is not to be done unless you want to go to prison or worse. As usual, the university students are stirring at their own risk.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:04 pm
@@–In which part of Clayton County do you reside (don’t be too specific, of course–too many whackos in blogland)? I work on the border between Clayton and Fayette on the Clayton side. Last week, the nail salon two doors down from me was robbed at the point of a shotgun. Not a good feeling. Now I’m having to keep a gun in the office, which I don’t like a bit.
Pogo
November 18th, 2009
5:07 pm
ABM,
Our nations people also wanted way too many cheap goods that they didn’t need and they certainly couldn’t afford. I agree with you, but the subject is a bit more complex than that of just “cheap labor”. Americans are consumer-holics that want everything and they want it on the cheap. Communist China, with what can practically be called it’s slave labor, just filled a niche and the greedy companies in this country were more than willing to give production to the Chinese to capitalize on our consumerism. An economic, parisitic relationship if you will. It is really a big, big mess. I don’t think we are ever going to get out of it. We’ve gone waaaay too far.
Luckovich today drew a cartoon I thought was pretty darned good. I don’t like Luckovich, but I thought that was a good one. I thought he should have added a balloon on Obama with him saying, “Put some more in the sack, a little more isn’t going to hurt!”. I mean, with Obama’s big government/socialist programs, isn’t that what he is really saying?
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:07 pm
“In its report the panel of doctors and scientists concluded that such early and frequent screenings often lead to false alarms and unneeded biopsies, without substantially improving women’s odds of survival.”
Ditto for routine colonoscopies, RG. Most of the small polyps that are found on this exam will never turn into cancer, leading to unnecessary costs and alarm. Of course, for the people who DO have cancer, early detection is best.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
5:08 pm
Rollergirl
Women aren’t confused. Why would you start getting mammograms at 50? I know several women that have had breast cancer in their 40s and I’m sure just about everyone does. If you believe this administration and think that you don’t need a mammogram until you are 50, then Darwinism steps in. That’s not confusion. That’s a death wish.
The only question is: how far will these guys be allowed to go?
Del
November 18th, 2009
5:09 pm
Angry Black Man,
What you described began with the H1B boom back in the mid-90’s. Today the Asian Indian I.T. workers even openly brag about taking over the industry jobs here in America. College students don’t see a future in pursuing computer science anymore.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:09 pm
Chinese trade deals from the Klinton years, hmmmmm, let me think-
You give us nuclear secrets, we give you KKKampaign KKKontributions, savi? Ahhh, so.
Yep, back to the future.
@@
November 18th, 2009
5:11 pm
Bruno:
I’m about two miles from the Fayette County line — Clayton side.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:13 pm
Damn! Sarah Hot Stuff Palin all over the TV set and radio dial. How am I supposed to keep up with all of it?
Ten thousand people in Grand Rapids, hehehehe.
Spazzzzzzzz, liberals!
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:17 pm
“I’m about two miles from the Fayette County line — Clayton side.”
Apparently the drug dealers like to make their trades along the border. We’ve witnessed several drug busts across the street on the Fayetteville side.
Be extra careful this Christmas season–a lot of desperate people in the area.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:18 pm
“I don’t think it will be offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him,” Obama told NBC’s Chuck Todd.
Welp, KSM walks.
Way to go, Obozo.
mike
November 18th, 2009
5:18 pm
This article can’t be right. We all know that the current economic crisis is all Bush’s fault (like Katrina).
How can an action taken in 1998 have contributed to our current economic plight? Bush wasn’t even President yet.
Even if this wasn’t the case, this article is still clearly incorrect. This article claims that this trade agreement was signed by a Democrat president.
The idea that a decision that has contributed to our current economic problem was not made by Bush is silly. Claiming that such a decision was made by a Democrat is an even bigger insult to our intelligence.
dbm
November 18th, 2009
5:20 pm
Jay, it sounds like you’re advocating some sort of protectionism. Can you clarify?
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:21 pm
“The idea that a decision that has contributed to our current economic problem was not made by Bush is silly. Claiming that such a decision was made by a Democrat is an even bigger insult to our intelligence.”
I haven’t followed Jay’s blog very closely the past few years, mike, but it seems to me that he’s trying to be more “fair and balanced” recently. I wonder if there was some editorial pressure to do so.
Pogo
November 18th, 2009
5:21 pm
Also, didn’t I read yesterday that four or five people were put to death this week in Iran for their involvement in the election uprising in that country? Where was the worldwide outrage about that in the media? Oh, that’s right, we musn’t do or say anything that may jeopardize our spineless and cowardly negotiations with the Mullah Madmen (which will never bear even a shriveled fruit).
This world has pretty much had it but I must say I have enjoyed the hell out of my stay on this planet and will continue to do so until every semblance of freedom is gone, which is looking like it may be soon. Maybe when mankind has destroyed itself the earth can heal and we (mankind) won’t evolve back into the mix. Would have been a fine place without so-called human “self awareness”. Law of the jungle and all that.
Del
November 18th, 2009
5:23 pm
Anyone who has traveled in mainland China outside of the major cities Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou in the South has seen the poverty every bit as bad as Central and Southeast Asia. Those in the outer villages are disallowed to move into the cities unless they commit to 8 years in the PLF (peoples liberation army). Those millions aren’t seeing the great workers paradise in the cities. Someday the Chinese will have to face that issue and it may bite them.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:24 pm
I will say that I had a strange experience several years back when I was an AJC subscriber and wrote letters to the editor (approximately 80% publication rate). Jay took it upon himself to start responding directly via my email. We had a few back and forths that were interesting.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:25 pm
Gay Marriage D.C.: Same-Sex Marriage Bill In Washington Seems Unstoppable-HuffandPuff
“Washington, D.C., Wins V.D. Triple Crown–Leads Nation in Syphilis, Gonorrhea and Chlamydia Rates”–headline, CNSNews.com, Nov. 17
Just sayin…..
Dusty
November 18th, 2009
5:26 pm
ABM,
I have worked with many people from India in the healthcare field. Most were intelligent people with great educations and skillful. I believe all were American citizens. I don’t see as many in “medicine” now.
Del
November 18th, 2009
5:27 pm
Bruno,
I’ve had that same experience with Jay. He always responds and does so in a civil manner.
mike
November 18th, 2009
5:28 pm
Bruno –
“Jay took it upon himself to start responding directly via my email. We had a few back and forths that were interesting.”
Jay is actually better than any pundit that I have seen in this regard. I give the guy a rough time, but he is one of the only pundits I know of who is brave enough (or deranged enough) to address his critics directly.
md
November 18th, 2009
5:29 pm
“the greedy companies in this country were more than willing to give production to the Chinese to capitalize on our consumerism.”
I thought the idea was to make money. Making money means more jobs and allows us to increase our 401k’s and ira’s. When did “greedy” companies become a bad thing for the overall good of society.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
5:29 pm
Bruno
**I haven’t followed Jay’s blog very closely the past few years, mike, but it seems to me that he’s trying to be more “fair and balanced” recently.**
I think it is the same reason why Jay Leno booked Rush Limbaugh.
Most of America fell for the BS. They took a look and simply said, “well that’s not working.” What next?
Obama has been in office for almost 1/4 of his term. He has not been a leader. It no longer takes a genius to see that we are in deep doo doo. What kind of nut would think that the solution is to spend billions and billions more? I think that in order for people like Jay to honestly address the problems, he cannot continue to ignore the lunacy that IS Washington.
@@
November 18th, 2009
5:30 pm
Does Obama not worry that “his words” might end up putting the KSM case in jeopardy.
Tainting the jury?
He needs to be quiet!
As usual, he’s talking too much.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
5:34 pm
“Jay is actually better than any pundit that I have seen in this regard. I give the guy a rough time, but he is one of the only pundits I know of who is brave enough (or deranged enough) to address his critics directly.”
Since blogging on Jay’s site, I have some newfound respect for the man for not shying away from his critics as you mention. His response to GODD the other day was priceless. now if I could only get him to address my criticisms of the health care bill……..
I will say that I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes, however. I can only imagine the threats he likely has had to endure to himself and his family for taking strong positions on the issues. Ive received threats just based on my blog entries.
Also, mike, I give you credit for being upfront about your dislike for the AJC and for stating the reasons why. I respect people who understand their biases.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:34 pm
Alright, I’ll comment on the blog column, help to clear some confusion-
The libs are dying to raise your taxes. Itching to, actually. And they figure if you quit spending money on new TVs and the like, you will have more cash for them to confiscate, so that they can buy new TVs and the like.
On the same subject, didn’t the Chinese make our little Obozo look like a fool, well, even more than usual?
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
5:37 pm
Dusty
**I have worked with many people from India in the healthcare field. Most were intelligent people with great educations and skillful. I believe all were American citizens. I don’t see as many in “medicine” now.**
They have gone home. India is becoming a leading source for incredibly good health are. Have you been to St. Joeseph’s lately? Northside? Top US hospitals and if you can find a nurse that seems to give a damn, you are doing something that my entire family wasn’t able to do. We lost a family member last year. They died at Northside. I’m pretty sure that most of the staff’s biggest concern was to clear the room and make the bed available. It was a semi-private room. That’s some big money.
After seeing that, I’ll start looking into medical tourism. I don’t want somebody trying to clear me out of the room so they can resale the bed.
md
November 18th, 2009
5:39 pm
Its quite obvious what Barry is doing, he is implementing his agenda and the economy be damned. He and the dems know that they have a small window to do whatever they want before the 2010 elections. Look back at the stimulus (pork) package. It did next to nothing except give the dems the opportunity to send the pork to their districts without being shot down (and both sides played that game).
has nothing to do with which issues are most important, it has everything to do with getting legislation passed that they know would not pass otherwise in a balanced Congress. That is why they have been in such a hurry to ram it all through, so get ready to back into recession as soon as the dust settles.
getalife
November 18th, 2009
5:42 pm
Of course , Andy proves my point on silly distractions.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
5:44 pm
White House officials told the New Republic magazine this week that the Obama administration has been embarrassed at least twice by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, for revealing in public information and policies that the State Department was supposed to keep private between Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and the U.S.
Oh yeah? Well, she makes me wretch.
getalife
November 18th, 2009
5:47 pm
Silly.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
5:53 pm
Atlanta has killed the Eggo waffle!!!
http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/108191/leggo-your-eggo-theres-a-waffle-shortage
I’m so ashamed.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
5:54 pm
Hey y’all!
I’ve noticed the shift in Jay in just the short time I’ve been here. While I think it is certainly reflective of the change on the Fishwrapper’s editorial policy which had become so didactic and party line as to be offensive event to the genrally liberal readership, Jay seems more comfortable with this new policy, less constrained I would venture, and more free to be a true liberal rather than the ersatz, politically correct brand.
Like some of you, I, too, have had my communication with him away from here and found him to be responsive, polite and courteous even if I did feel like he was giving me a line of you-know-what on certain points.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:00 pm
It has been my experience in dealing with Indians on a number of levels that they are highly skilled, highly educated and professional and, best of all, polite, courteous and genial.
Reagan
November 18th, 2009
6:04 pm
The higher standard of living that American’s enjoy is due to the wonderfully inexpensive Chinese goods that can be purchased at almost every American retailer.
This prosperity is due to conservative tax cuts during the Reagan administration – period.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:08 pm
“It has been my experience in dealing with Indians on a number of levels that they are highly skilled, highly educated and professional and, best of all, polite, courteous and genial.”
Agreed, but for some reason I have a hard time getting hot for their women. Too hairy for me.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:08 pm
Before I forget, I want y’all to know how much I appreciated your tolerance of my descent into my worse nature last evening. It’s a side of me I don’t like very much myself. Like anybody, I have my buttons and last night’s thread was one of them and some of the more hateful pushed them and I reacted when I really should have just walked away. Again, thank you.
Pogo
November 18th, 2009
6:09 pm
md,
There is nothing wrong with capitalism. I drink from that fountain daily and I fully support it, as it has been very good to me. I was merely pointing out the fact that without an industrial/production base for our economy, we are turned into a consumer economy. We turned over way too much of our production to foreign competitors who did not play by the environmental and labor rules and we had a lot of companies in this country that were willing to do what was not necessarily best for our country to increase their profits. A consumer economy, like we now find ourselves mired in, is a loser. Without a production/industrial base, we are doomed. We cannot survive basing our economy on consumerism. It is like Obama and the Democrats taking credit for the creation of “government” jobs as a demonstration as to the success of their stimulus package. Every dime that is spent creating a stimulus job must ultimately be paid for by the private sector, as the government does not make one penny, it just spends the private sectors money. There are not now, nor have there been for a long time, enough private sector monies to pay for our government’s spending sprees. Government provided stimulus to an economy, paid for by a suffering private sector, is a pipe dream. There is no stimulus, only shorterm temporary gratification.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:10 pm
Bruno–As I say of them, when they’re good looking, they’re fine, but when they’re ugly they’re prize winners. Not much in between, they’re either one or the other…
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:11 pm
josef–NIF thinks we were too hard on Taxpayer last night. Any feeling about that? I think he brought it on himself with his arrogant challenge that he somehow knew more about math and science than the other bloggers. If he decides to show his wimpy butt here again, I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake.
“Those of you who THINK you know it all are very annoying to us that do.”
TnGelding
November 18th, 2009
6:15 pm
No, Clinton gets the credit. Where have all the “free-traders” gone? The die was long cast before he took office. We as consumers have taken the search for cheap goods and services to the extreme, destroying our own livelihood. Buy American! And show some patriotism, Corporate America!
Jay
November 18th, 2009
6:16 pm
Folks, let’s attack issues and public figures here, not each other.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:16 pm
Bruno–
I thoroughly enjoyed y’all’s set to! Being a science-technology idiot, I had no idea what y’all were talking about, but you and NIF spoke my case when you hammered away on the arrogance so many come across with in citing their “degrees.” I’ve got my own sheaf of papers from the prestige institutions, but all I ever got there was a line of abstract theory with little or no relation to the real world.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:17 pm
Gotta get the grill going, but what a ride on the stock market the past few days. Sprint went up another $0.25 per share, so I’m a happy camper again.
C U in a little while, knee scratcher.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:18 pm
JAY–
Are you a public figure?
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:19 pm
“Folks, let’s attack issues and public figures here, not each other.”
Sorry for getting a little carried away myself, Jay.
Hope you have time to respond to some of the criticisms of the health care bill one of these days.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:23 pm
“Being a science-technology idiot, I had no idea what y’all were talking about, but you and NIF spoke my case when you hammered away on the arrogance so many come across with in citing their “degrees.”
Personally, I’ve racked up well over 500 college credit hours over the years in addition to studying on my own. Does that make me better than anyone else? Not in my book.
md
November 18th, 2009
6:23 pm
Pogo,
We can thank the unions for running the jobs out of this country. Glorified screwdriver operators making 50k a year will do some damage on the cost of goods. Some jobs are meant to be entry level and paid as such. One wants more money then they need to improve themselves and move up. Many see the unions as saviors vs the job killers that they are.
Jay
November 18th, 2009
6:31 pm
For these purposes, Josef, I surely am.
I was asked recently to act as a “celebrity chef” for a charity event, and gladly did so. It was a lot of fun and hard work, and it was an experience working in a commercial kitchen putting out 60-something gourmet meals in a hurry.
But as I pointed out to the sponsors, you’re apparently not much of a celebrity when they ask you to wear a nametag all night long. You’ve heard about A-list and B-list? I’m about a Y-list.
But here, fair game.
Dusty
November 18th, 2009
6:32 pm
Well, Jay Bookman has become more subtle. That is the only change I see. As someone suggested, perhaps he was told to cool it.
Bookman excels at blogging. He throws out something “innocent”. Then waits for his loyal libs or unahppy Repubs to light the fire he built.. Cute baby pictures with departing soldiers, a Palin interview or references, anything that reflects bad on Iraq or Afghanistan , TV commentators especially conservative types, contemporary music, US healthcare failures & sob stories, and a bit of Israel antipathy…. .He has more or less dropped Bush as a subject but not entirely. Cheney is still “fun”. Strangely enough, Obama seems to be off limits. Bookman knows all the tricks and his loyal libs love it.
He doesn’t give a snap for freedom of speech. It seems that Bookman usually revokes the privileges of conservatives. Liberals fare better. “Banning” is used as stimulation and draws attention and makes the reading a little smoother.. Blogging replaces journalism.
Liberals, you’ve got your man. Cynthia is gone but you’ve got Jay and Luckovich and Obama and Congress and all those good things like the national debt. Enjoy!! But try to be a little more realistic in your evaluations and adulation.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
6:32 pm
NIF @ 4:53
You have to realize that the many of the doctors there can trace their education back to schools here in the US in some form. Either they’re educated here, or they’re taught by doctors who were educated here. The big difference is that they usually come on scholarship and don’t need that 5000 sq. ft. home on the 9th hole. Ergo, they can work for less pay and do the same competent work.
Bruno @ 4:56
Our inventiveness set us apart, but our narcissism is about to put us on our behind. Take a look at the number of F1 and J1 student visas we crank out every year. I don’t get to see the full scope, but Korea, India, and China are the top 3 countries I come across when dealing with students. If we’re teaching the rest of the world our creative skills, we’re in for a rude awakening in the near future.
Pogo
Spot on!! We’ve gone waaaaayy too far. There’s no way to put that genie back in the bottle. I believe that corruption is the only reason why Mexico didn’t spring up the way China did. That’s gotta be a testament to total government control. LOL!!
Del
You should have seen the draft bill for immigration reform for this past year. They wanted to double all visa classes.
Dusty
Nigerians are the new workers in the medical field. Check out the latest crops of RN’s. Most of the people from India or of Indian descent are the older generation. The younger generation has veered towards computers and corporate work.
josef
No appology needed for last night. Everyone has their buttons. If you notice, I got the hell out of dodge quickly.
md
November 18th, 2009
6:35 pm
Off topic but related – “On a unanimous vote, the California Energy Commission required all new televisions up to 58 inches to be more energy efficient, beginning in 2011.”
Might be time to open a tv store on the CA border. Can you imagine the cross border business this is going to create. Good ole gov’t, kill your retailers to save a little energy, but in the end folks are going to use the same amount of energy by buying out of state tv’s so the end losers will be the state tax coffers and the tv retailers. Gov’t at its finest – stupid.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:36 pm
JAY–I like that name tag line! So, what did you fix?
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:37 pm
“Our inventiveness set us apart, but our narcissism is about to put us on our behind.”
True dat, ABM.
BTW, I hope to be coming through your checkpoint in February if everything goes well, so take it easy on me. I’ll try to leave any contraband at home. I’ve been wanting to go to Rio for many years to see what the beach scene is like.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
6:41 pm
Bruno
If you’re single, I’ve heard you’ll have a great time.
md
November 18th, 2009
6:42 pm
“I’ve been wanting to go to Rio for many years to see what the beach scene is like.”
Its one of the few beaches in the world where one gets to wear their bathing suit and bullet proof vest at the same time.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:46 pm
“If you’re single, I’ve heard you’ll have a great time.”
I’ve heard nice things about the “dental floss” bathing suits.
“Its one of the few beaches in the world where one gets to wear their bathing suit and bullet proof vest at the same time.”
To be honest, md, I am somewhat wary of the crime problem. Maybe the upcoming Olympics will spur a cleanup of the city. I consider myself to be somewhat “street savvy” having grown up in a rough part of NJ, but recognize that I will be out of my element there. Then, all the advantages are on the side of the criminals.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:46 pm
ABM–
The West Africans, West Indians, and Philipinos have cettainly “taken over” the nursing profession. They’re hard working and don’t view taking on extra shifts as an imposition. As for the Indian doctors, dentists, etc. they have done a lot to bring quality health care to the rural areas where our own native pool doesn’t want to practice. There’s a lot we could learn from their work ethic.
Last night? I should have joined you!
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
6:48 pm
Bruno–in Rio don’t get off the beaten track without a native along…
Dusty
November 18th, 2009
6:50 pm
Nothing is free,
I am sorry to hear about your sad hospital experiences. I don’t see patients much in my work in the laboratory, just their body fluids. But I know there are bad experiences along with the good in hospitals. I’ve had some myself with my family.
Nurses are in high demand and few of the people you see are fully trained nurses. Most are LPNs and aides of various sorts. Also, hospitals are often crowded with patients in waiting areas while rooms have to be cleaned. It doesn’t seem sympathetic but it isn’t intentional.
I am not sure about the quality of overseas hospitals but I would be worried about standards and regulations just like I do with government controlled healthcare. As ’tis said, you get what you pay for. I would keep that in mind with overseas healthcare.
Now… off to get some steak and potatoes…
md
November 18th, 2009
6:53 pm
Bruno,
Crime can find you anywhere, but why increase your odds? There are many, many wonderful places around the globe that don’t have that reputation.
Not too long ago I went to one of the “golden jails” in the carribean. We had no problems inside the “compound”, but outside was an adventure. Groups of teens would approach and grab at your stuff in broad daylight. Inside the golden jail, the security guards carried small machine guns – a bit unnerving to say the least. We had fun, but won’t be going back any time soon.
RW-(the original)
November 18th, 2009
6:54 pm
ABM,
I spoke to a fine young Indian man in the computer business just a little earlier today. Who knew Peter was a common name in India?
md
November 18th, 2009
6:57 pm
Hey Jay, want to release my 6:53 please, can’t imagine what is in there that the blog ss didn’t like.
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
6:59 pm
“Bruno–in Rio don’t get off the beaten track without a native along…”
Watching the movie “Cidade de Deus” (City of God) was a wake up call to me. I know it was fictional, but left me wary about the place.
“I am not sure about the quality of overseas hospitals but I would be worried about standards and regulations just like I do with government controlled healthcare.”
What scares me here about US hospitals, Dusty, are the prevalence of staph infections. I’ve had several of my patients nearly die following routine surgeries such as rotator cuff repair.
Angry Black Man
November 18th, 2009
7:00 pm
RW
I’m constantly surprised. I’ve met Indians with the last name Fernandes or something like that. Curiosity got the best of me, so I had to ask where the name came from. His great grandfather was Portuguese.
josef
The David Duke card did it for me.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
7:04 pm
RW–not long ago I was on the line with an Indian computer fellow. My frustration with diabulus ex macchina had driven me into such a rage that I was ready to chop it into little pieces and throw them one-by-one into Peachtree Creek. Unmentionable had fled the scene. The technician says “this is —-, how may I help you.” His “name” was the same as Unmentionable’s and after i quit laughing and had asked him to fix me a drink, I told him what I found so funny. He joined me in the chuckle and apologized for his accent should I have trouble understanding him. I told him if he could understand mine…it was his turn to laugh…”oh, no, Sir, it takes me back to a good time in my life…I went to Tulane…and, well, true lovers of the Crescent City, we talked food, restaurants and bars before getting on with the bidness at hand…a truly pleasant time as the curse was removed from the machine…
Jay
November 18th, 2009
7:07 pm
Josef, five course meal. Entrees were beef wellington, green beans provencal and saffron rice; or lemon shrimp over angel-hair pasta with the green beans as a side.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
7:08 pm
ABM–got one for you on that! Met an Indian once whose last name was Cohen–he was a Malabar Jew whose family had been in India for over 2000 years!
I steered clear of the David Duke card…
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
7:08 pm
Bruno, You would love Rio
Josef, you would love it more . . . much more. Sounds like you have been there.
As an American in any just about any foreign country “relationships” can be made easily. But it might be a good idea to have LoJack installed on most of your internal organs.
There is little modesty so while the dental floss looks great on great looking bodies, it’s easy to find yourself literally tying to bury your head in the sand to shield your eyes from the square yards of glob from some of the older people there.
ON the beach, we immediately noticed that the thieves and pick-pockets don’t wear bathing suits, so if anyone came within ten feet of us that didn’t have a string bathing suit on, we let them know without a doubt that they were about two seconds from having a very bad day.
But I thought the sexiest women were fully dressed and walking down the street. Nobody can wear a pair of heels like a Brazilian woman.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
7:11 pm
ABM
Josef didn’t do that. I did. It’s just that Duke and “that poster” had so much in common. I thought it would be good if they got together. I was just trying to help.
RW-(the original)
November 18th, 2009
7:11 pm
josef,
Good thing you didn’t have Peter. Pretty much all he had mastered was emailing me pages from a website that I was already reading. Nice guy though. Once we got done chatting I did what always seems to fix these things. I just deinstalled the program and started over.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 18th, 2009
7:15 pm
NIF- Can you carry a cannon in Rio?
Oh wait, the crime rate is real high, I just answered my own question.
josef nix
November 18th, 2009
7:21 pm
JAY–Now that sounds good! I know you had to put enough work into THAT to have forgotten your name without looking at the tag! Back when we were in college in the Pacific Northwest and Seattle was threatening to vote down its gay rights ordinance, Unmentionable and I were invited to put on a Louisiana feed for a charity event…avocado soup, hearts of palm salad, jambalaya, beans and rice for the vegetarians and cherry crepes, Chateau Ste. Michel wines and cafe au lait…when we volunteered we figuered it would be for about 50 or 60 at the most…had nearly 200 tickets sold! Made two styles of jambalya–one for the “white folks” and one for those who appreciated the “real deal..”.should have seen some of those who wanted the real deal chugalugging their great wines to put the fire out!
Bruno
November 18th, 2009
7:21 pm
“Good thing you didn’t have Peter.”
LOL, RW. By any chance did you catch a recent TV documentary about the call centers in India? The one they focused on was centered on selling expensive telephone directory advertisements in something called “The American Yellow Pages”. Kind of depressing to watch.
I received a call about a half hour ago on behalf of Nissan. The woman had a strong Indian accent, but am not sure if she was calling from overseas. I politely asked her to remove my name from the calling list.
Nothing Is Free
November 18th, 2009
7:21 pm
Dusty
I do a lot of contract work in Hospitals so I know about the problems. I also understand most of the problems, but like you said, that doesn’t justify the way most patients are treated in the larger hospitals.
Here, cancer surgery would have cost my friend over 100 grand. He flew to India, had the surgery, had a private room, personal nurse (sort of like an LPN) and another nurse that was more like a RN, When he showed us pictures of the hospital, I thought he was showing us a very nice, 5 star hotel, trip included was around 12 grand. After two weeks of recovery (he would have been sent home in three days here), the doctor was not completely satisfied so they kept him 5 more days. No extra charge. He has had absolutely no problems and since the AMA doesn’t have access to those records unless he wants them to, he has no pre-existing condition to drive up his insurance cost. Probably dishonest, but he ain’t me. But I certainly can’t blame him.
Major surgery? I’ll go on a trip.