It’s time for true fiscal conservatism to assert itself
By instinct and upbringing, I’m a fiscal conservative. The family credit cards are all paid off, for example, and I still drive the first new car I ever bought, a 1980 Toyota.
Politically, I’m a fiscal conservative as well. No, not a fiscal conservative as the GOP has tried to define it, but an actual fiscal conservative. I believe that in normal times the federal government ought to be raising as much in tax revenue as it spends, and spending no more than it brings in. (Note that these are not normal times.)
The Republican Party has tried, with some success, to redefine “fiscal conservative” by looking only at one side of the ledger. A fiscal conservative in GOP parlance is someone who cuts taxes, period.
Oh, they give lip service to cutting spending. They promise it, but they never deliver it. Quite the contrary. Federal spending under Ronald Reagan, for example, increased much faster than it did under Bill Clinton, even after adjusting for inflation. But since Reagan also cut taxes, he is recalled by some as a fiscal conservative.
At one level, putting together a federal budget is not at all complicated. You face two basic, simple policy decisions:
– Are you going to cut spending or raise spending?
– Are you going to cut taxes or raise taxes?
Combining those choices from either side of the accounting ledger gives you four basic policy directions, ranked here in order of fiscal conservatism. You can:
1. Cut spending and raise taxes.
2a. Cut spending and cut taxes.
2b. Raise spending and raise taxes.
4. Raise spending and lower taxes.
The most fiscally conservative approach is clearly the first, especially when the national debt is so high. Ideally, the fastest means to bring our economic house into order would be to both cut spending and raise taxes. But politically, no one has come close to pulling that approach off and no one will. It is a political reality that no one of either party can get elected or stay in office by cutting entitlements, which is where the big savings would be.
Fiscally speaking, options 2a and 2b can be equally responsible. But again, the option of cutting spending is not politically viable. (Cutting can be accomplished in individual programs, but cutting to produce an actual reduction in federal spending is impossible.) Republicans can and do claim to champion option 2a, but nothing in their record in office suggests they are serious about it.
The least fiscally conservative approach, the approach that is least fiscally responsible, would be No. 4. That is also the approach that “fiscally conservative” Republican leadership at the national level has pursued with dogged determination, in good times or bad.
President Obama claims to want to change all that. In these extraordinary times, even most conservative economists agree that large deficits are required to keep the economy afloat. But in his speeches in China and here at home, Obama has acknowledged that such deficits have to be temporary, that they cannot be sustained at anything close to these levels over the long term without bringing economic ruin.
I don’t know how serious he is about it. We’ll see. He is talking about spending cuts, and they are absolutely necessary. But in the real world such cuts can only shrink the rate of increase. They cannot reverse it, and Obama knows it. Given the upward pressure on the budget, the only feasible means of addressing the longterm debt crisis is through tax increases.
That statement will no doubt be met by howls of protest from the tea-party crowd, which has accepted as an article of faith that they are wildly overtaxed by a confiscatory federal government. The numbers say they’re wrong; the numbers say that as a percentage of GDP, federal taxes today are well within the range established in the last 40 years, and would remain so even with tax increases.
Of course, forced to choose between actual facts and comforting myth, a lot of people would choose the myth. But myths don’t pay the bills. Myths don’t bolster the dollar. Myths don’t save our grandchildren from the immense bills we’re handing them as a legacy.
Assessing our options, you might even say that Obama and the country as a whole face the same question posed by the poet himself oh so many years ago:
2b, or not 2b?
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200 comments Add your comment
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 17th, 2009
9:13 am
Where does health care and cap/ tax fit into all this?
Peadawg
November 17th, 2009
9:14 am
“Oh, they give lip service to cutting spending. They promise it, but they never deliver it.”
Kinda like what Obama’s done, huh Bookman?
Normal
November 17th, 2009
9:20 am
This is more applicable to below, but it is interesting reading…
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/496616/no_sarah_palin_is_not_the_next_ronald_reagan
Mrs. Godzilla
November 17th, 2009
9:22 am
Pardon me…..
Option #3?
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
9:24 am
“China questions costs of U.S. healthcare reform… ”
I guess the billion or so chinese population are part of the “conned”, right liberals?
Doggone/GA
November 17th, 2009
9:25 am
“Option #3?”
When there are, as in this example, only 4 options…and 2 of them are variations of the same thing, then you do as Jay did label them 2 & b, an skip the next number.
I wouldn’t have done it that way…but then there would have been no opportunity to say “2b, or not 2b?”!
Gale
November 17th, 2009
9:25 am
And Mrs G busts Jay for his levity at the cost of his numbered list. Well done, Mrs Godzilla.
Shawny
November 17th, 2009
9:25 am
Liberals rant and rave about Reagan’s plung into deficit spending. Yes, he started us down that path. However, Obama’s budget has us spending a higher spending of GDP than Reagan’s. That puts us at apples and apples as far as a comparison. Stop the spending madness now.
Taxes are high enough to pull in enough revenue. What is needed, badly, is a deviation from this spending spree.
No need for healthcare that spends trillions.
No need for more stimulus.
No need for wasted cash for clunkers.
Anything from Congress should stand on its own as a law. No inserting spending measures into a bill that have nothing to do with the bill.
Cut postal delivery to 4 days (not the proposed 5, mind you).
Cut till it hurts.
jt
November 17th, 2009
9:26 am
Jay is STILL working under the illusion that the Republican and Democrat parties offer a choice.
Gale
November 17th, 2009
9:26 am
Doggone, not the way I was taught.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 17th, 2009
9:27 am
Me, um, liberal likum livin the cave and burnin the wood, ugh, drag woman by hair, it’s back to the 2nd century with us.
No shopping, eww.
Ugh.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
9:27 am
“The worst is yet to come: Unemployed Americans should hunker down for more job losses…”
Thank you, obamanomics.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:29 am
Doggone! Well done!
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
9:29 am
Kinda like the people on welfare/food stamps paying lip service to wanting a job.
Kinda like Alanis Morrisette being one of the most irritating Canucks in recent history.
Kinda like Ms Cynthia Tucker paying lip service to being the 2010 AJC calendar girl, yet refusing to sit for photo sessions.
Kinda like Obobo paying lip service to every issue and doing not much of anything.
Kinda like The Goron paying lip service to global climate change yet living like the Emporer of Peru with his new fangled A/C and eating chicken pot pies.
Kinda like the guilt laden posters on this blog who want it all yet are willing to sacrifice not much of anything to achieve same.
Kinda like Van Halen replacing David Lee Roth with Sammy Hagar.
Kinda like Adam Sandler being part Jewish.
Kinda like BMW’s being highly overrated.
Doggone/GA
November 17th, 2009
9:29 am
“Doggone, not the way I was taught”
You missed the point.
Gale
November 17th, 2009
9:29 am
Given the costs, I think Congress needs to scrub the current bill/s and focus on cutting health care costs. Forget insuring everyone. Just make it cheaper to treat the uninsured. Reduce costs first.
Normal
November 17th, 2009
9:30 am
In Normalville, in normal days we have a balanced budget, surplus in savings, and a pay as you go system. China has no hold on Normalville and the products of American Industries fill the shelves of our stores.
Mrs. G.’s resturant serves the finest foods grown on the Normalville farms, inspected, packaged, and certified by the good citizens of Normalville. Normalville, requiring no outside help, but willing to help others when asked. Used to be called America.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
9:30 am
“Obama Has Failed the World on Climate Change”
“US President Barack Obama came to office promising hope and change. But on climate change, he has followed in the footsteps of his predecessor George W. Bush. Now, should the climate summit in Copenhagen fail, the blame will lie squarely with Obama.”
Al Gore will surely be disappointed.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 17th, 2009
9:30 am
Well, me and my buddy Jim Earl and Joe Bill were watching TV last night down at Billy Bob’s and they showed this Obama bowing to this slant-eye overseas. Talk about hot under the collar. We got fighting mad. The idea of a President of the U.S. of A. bowing to anybody just burns me up. But there it was for everybody to see. If this don’t make people want to vote for a Republican for President I don’t know what will. It’s clear to anybody with eyes the librul Democrats got no pride.
What he ought to of done was use Republican Diplomacy. Instead of bowing, he should of undid his zipper and pulled it out and told this bunch of yellow people what they could do if they don’t like what our country does. And maybe invade some little country just to make a point of it. And hang their leader after the war was over. You don’t get no respect by bowing to somebody. But they sure will pay attention to you if you body-slam them.
Anyhow, people made a big mistake by voting for this Obama. But in three years or so they got a chance to make up for it. And next year they can make a down payment by voting in Conservative Republicans to Congress. We can make a start toward stopping this Obamacare stuff and all the Socialist welfare bills and bring back Pride to this country. And bring God back to our schools and guvmint places. And keep My President’s tax cuts in place to boot.
I’m sorry for ranting and being off-topic a little but I’m still burned up. Now for today’s topic. I’m for cutting taxes and cutting spending. Get rid of taxes. Get rid of Social Security and Medicare and all these welfare programs. It’s a jungle out there and people need to live in it. As one fellow said, you better be a lion or tiger, not a wildebeest or a antelope.
Have a good day everybody.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:31 am
BLOG GOD!!! What?
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
9:32 am
But one day this bubble will burst, leading to the biggest co-ordinated asset bust ever: if factors lead the dollar to reverse and suddenly appreciate – as was seen in previous reversals, such as the yen-funded carry trade – the leveraged carry trade will have to be suddenly closed as investors cover their dollar shorts. A stampede will occur as closing long leveraged risky asset positions across all asset classes funded by dollar shorts triggers a co-ordinated collapse of all those risky assets – equities, commodities, emerging market asset classes and credit instruments.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
9:33 am
Normal
Well, that settles it. Sarah Palin is OUT.
it’s not like Obama has ever had an article written about him that wasn’t in the best light.
She’s back and you might as well deal with it.
But the real question is, why are liberals so up in arms if she is so “normal”. Why would the best politicians in the world be so intent on discrediting her. And better yet, why are so many liberals now giving mags like “The Nation” so much credibility?
AmVet
November 17th, 2009
9:33 am
Both political parties have been completely fiscally irresponsible.
And many members thereof should probably be in jail for malfeasance of the people’s money.
Ending most of the massive giveaways to corporations in terms of subsidies, tax breaks, tax shelters, uncollected tax evasion, fraud, abuse and corruption would go a LONG way to balancing the ledgers. Collecting rents and payments for the assets and services of WE THE PEOPLE that have been GIVEN away to them should start immediately.
And drastically decreasing the BLOATED, disgustingly wasteful, fraudulent and abusive DoD budget would also pay big dividends for we the people.
If we’ve learned anything from this Republican War on Terrorism, it is that national security is a just a throw away by line in a very expensive joke…
Scooter
November 17th, 2009
9:33 am
Jay, you just gave me a whole new outlook on libs and cons. Now I am really confused. Whew!
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:34 am
I guess not.
Gale
November 17th, 2009
9:35 am
NIF @9:33 answer, in a word, propaganda.
Jay
November 17th, 2009
9:38 am
Bosch, the term “tea-bagger” and all variations is now verboten.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:39 am
Oh, okay. Well, then I’ll just have to think of something else!
Scooter
November 17th, 2009
9:40 am
Normal
November 17th, 2009
9:30 am
AMEN Brother!
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
9:41 am
Ending most of the massive giveaways to bums, unwed mothers, baby-mamas in terms of subsidies, tax breaks, tax shelters, uncollected tax evasion, fraud, abuse and corruption would go a LONG way to balancing the ledgers. Collecting rents and payments for the assets and services of WE THE PEOPLE that have been GIVEN away to them should start immediately.
And drastically decreasing the BLOATED, disgustingly wasteful, fraudulent and abusive welfare/food stamp budget would also pay big dividends for we the people.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
9:42 am
Jay, nice piece. I, too, am a fiscal conversative in the truest sense of the word. I drive a vehicle with slightly over 290K miles. I estimate the repairs (I don’t include maintenance because even a new care will require maintenance) to be about $1K per year. That means my vehicle’s operating cost (again, I don’t include maintenance) to be less than $100 per month. Now, if I could find a new car that seats 5 for $100 per month, then I might take the plunge.
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
9:42 am
Doggone,
Jay’s job joins the jaunts of the jib jabbers with the jarring jargon needed to justify the jest. A little light-heartedness sometimes eases the entry, or exit as the case may be, into the more somber subject.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:42 am
It seems that many of those concerned about a raise in our taxes think that their lifestyles will somehow be changed so dramatically, that they will be ruined and wind up living in a van down by the river or in a cardboard box under a bridge.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
9:43 am
GAle
The propaganda will become more and more common about Mrs. Palin. SNL started it and wasn’t it effective? What did Sarah actually say and what did Tina Faye say? Comedy Central is propaganda. Political messages and political training in the form of entertainment is propaganda. Yellow journalism is a different thing. You know what you will get if you watch FOX and you SHOULD know what you will get if you watch NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS or NPR.
PinkoNeoConLibertarian
November 17th, 2009
9:43 am
AmVet, if we do away with business tax breaks, subsidies, tax shelters, etc., then the free enterprise system would not work since we all know they need help to compete. Wait…what?
jconservative
November 17th, 2009
9:44 am
National debt 1960 – $260 Billion.
National debt 11/13/2009 – $11,991,506,876,413.07
You may thank all of the “fiscal conservatives” who have helped “run” the country for the past 49 years. “Run” the country into the ground!
The American people are addicted to getting “free” from the government.
Whether it is “welfare for a mom with 4 kids & one on the way” or whether it is a “refund check” from the “surplus”, it is still that something free from the government. (Y’all all remember the “Surplus” don’t you? Five Trillion dollar national debt but we all got a check from the “Surplus”.)
We, as a nation, will do what we have done for the past 49 years, we will do # 4 – “Raise spending and lower taxes.” That is what Obama has done in his first 10 months – and what every president since Eisenhower has done.
Jay
November 17th, 2009
9:44 am
“Ending most of the massive giveaways to bums, unwed mothers, baby-mamas in terms of subsidies, tax breaks, tax shelters, uncollected tax evasion, fraud, abuse and corruption would go a LONG way to balancing the ledgers. Collecting rents and payments for the assets and services of WE THE PEOPLE that have been GIVEN away to them should start immediately.”
It would barely be a drop in the ocean. On the scale of the federal budget, the amount of money spent on the things you describe is small and almost minuscule. That is part of the comforting myth you are being fed, a myth that the actual numbers refute.
pat
November 17th, 2009
9:45 am
You mean the he’s going to increase taxes on everybody even though he said he would only tax the “rich”? Do tell… Ok, so he is a liar, nothing new there.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
9:47 am
“Comedy Central is propaganda. Political messages and political training in the form of entertainment is propaganda”
Comedy Central isnt much worth watching any longer, unless they feature the Queen of Mean – Ms Lisa Lampinelli, and SNL hasnt been funny since Joe Piscapo did his renditon of Frank!
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
9:49 am
Bosch
Haven’t seen a lot of talk about people living in cardboard boxes. In your words: care to offer some proof?
But businesses that need to spend more on taxes will not be able to apply that money to new employees, and those people could end up in a box by the river. That is a fact. People need jobs. Haven’t you heard?
Scooter
November 17th, 2009
9:51 am
Ending most of the massive giveaways to corporations in terms of subsidies, tax breaks, tax shelters, uncollected tax evasion, fraud, abuse and corruption would go a LONG way to balancing the ledgers. Collecting rents and payments for the assets and services of WE THE PEOPLE that have been GIVEN away to them should start immediately
I don’t know about you AmVet but I can’t see that happening. Not in my lifetime anyway. What a mess!
Normal
November 17th, 2009
9:54 am
NIF, here’s another for your amusement…
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/blumenthal
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
9:54 am
Boogers
Comedy Central is great if you are of that political ilk and can stand up and cheer while saying “THat’s right. That’s showing those damned Republicans. So for the sheep, it’s great.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
9:56 am
Nrmal
After reading the first paragraph, it is obvious that yet another has exclaimed “To the bandwagon”.
I’m not really a bandwagon kind of guy. I like to make up my own mind.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
9:57 am
NIF,
I wonder how the math matches up: amount of money spent in taxes vs. amount of money spent on health care for employees. It would be interesting to see how much a business spends and how those two directly effect the bottom line.
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
9:58 am
Hong Kong: “America is doing exactly what Japan did last time”
The Federal Reserve’s policy of keeping interest rates near zero is fueling a wave of speculative capital that may cause the next global crisis, Hong Kong’s leader said.
“I’m scared and leaders should look out,” said Donald Tsang, chief executive of the city, said in Singapore today. “America is doing exactly what Japan did last time,” he said, adding that Japan’s zero interest rate policy contributed to the 1997 Asian financial crisis and U.S. mortgage meltdown…
“We have a U.S. dollar carry trade at the moment,” Tsang, 65, said in a speech where leaders of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation forum are gathering for a weekend summit. The carry trade is where investors borrow cheaply in one currency and use the funds to invest in other currencies.
“Where is the money going — it’s where the problem’s going to be: Asia,” Tsang said. “You can see asset prices going up, not only in Korea, in Taiwan, in Singapore and in Hong Kong, going up to levels that are incompatible or inconsistent with the economic fundamentals.”
MELTDOWN: The Sequel. If you enjoyed the original, you’ll really like this one!
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
9:59 am
Booger. Turd. Different ends to the same means.
mm
November 17th, 2009
10:01 am
So true Jay. No comment necessary on that one.
Alas, today the Palin book comes out. I see Palin’s approval numbers are about the same as Bush’s were. Obviously, the same crowd of loons support her like they did Bush.
Another day on the blog and still not an original thought from any of the righties.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:01 am
jconservative
**The American people are addicted to getting “free” from the government.**
I disagree. You have it backward. We have one political party who makes it’s living by spawning a “Great Society”, which is nothing but human warehouses of people being fed and clothed, while waiting for the next bus to the polls and the other party doesn’t have the political acumen to fight it.
The government looooves to give money away. After all, it isn’t their money.
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:01 am
The easiest way to pay off the defeicit is to layoff Congress until it is paid.
Like their corporate masters, layoffs until they turn a profit.
Also, tax cuts for everyone will cut the money they spend and borrow.
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
10:05 am
Jay, I also noticed that sounds of silence over at Cynthia’s blog when she presented facts regarding tax revenues versus outlays. The Republicans must have skipped out on those hard subjects in grade school that involved adding and subtracting big numbers. They’re a laf a minute. Oops. I brought up a more complicated concept — a rate.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
10:06 am
NIF,
How much do you expect the taxes on your business to increase in the next year? Not your personal taxes, but the taxes incurred through your business. Just curious.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:06 am
mm
What problem do you have with Sarah Palin? If anyone who supports her is a “loon” then you must know something that the rest of us don’t.
Please enlighten. Remember, if we are loons, then you need to produce some hard facts.
Doggone/GA
November 17th, 2009
10:07 am
“Also, tax cuts for everyone will cut the money they spend and borrow.”
Why would you think that? Hasn’t stopped them so far.
Scooter
November 17th, 2009
10:07 am
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:01 am
Don’t bogart that joint my friend……
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
10:07 am
mm
November 17th, 2009
10:01 am
Ah, yes, playing the numbers game. What are they, by the way?
Here’s one for you – the latest Rasmussen poll shows 28% of the nations voters (I guess this includes some of the fictional votors registered by Acorn, I just don’t know) strongly approve of the job Private Obama is doing. Here’s the link.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
What are your numbers again?
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:08 am
Bosch
From the last quarter to this quarter, they have already increased almost 20%. That increase alone would have made it possible to hire two people for a year.
Hope that helps.
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:09 am
/passes to Scooter.
I know, it;s crazy talk that will never happen.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
10:09 am
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:06 am
You may as well forget it. mm is probably one of those “loons” that considered Clinton to be the first black president and also wanted him to be able to run for a third term.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
10:12 am
To all who want to debate what is and isn’t a fiscal conservative, let me impart some wisdom from a true fiscal conservative – my mother. When deciding whether or not to buy something, my mother told me that I should ask myself three questions:
1. Do you need it?
2. Do you have the money to pay for it?
3. Do you need it?
If the answer to any of the three was “no”, then don’t buy it. She lived to be in her mid 80s and never owned a credit card. Not bad.
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
10:12 am
Since the welfare law was signed in 1996, the number of people on welfare has plunged, to 5 million from 12.2 million, a 59 percent decline. The federal government provides a fixed amount to the states, $16.5 billion a year, regardless of how many people are on the rolls.
WOW! $16.5bn compared to the $650bn for defense! Don’t forget that Social Security and Medicare are “self-funding” programs paid for by payroll deductions. Or, at least, that’s the way they were designed. Now, they are simply piggy banks for Congress to “borrow” from.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:13 am
Jimmy Carter
I didn’t expect an answer. I asked that question a couple of days ago of several that were blathering the anti-palin talking points and strangely enough, they didn’t like her speeches. that was the best they could do. A couple said it was because she had resigned, but when asked why they hated her before she resigned . . . crickets.
Complete and totally indoctrinated by the media. THey no longer even ask why. And sadly enough, they are allowed to vote.
pat
November 17th, 2009
10:14 am
Economics is simple and people mess it up with stunning regularity.
If the number of people and companies is static as well as their cash flow, then raising taxes makes sense as to increase revenue for the government. That’s not how it works, because none of this is static. It may be how obama wants it to work, but we are not economic socialists and we will not allow this country to end up this way.
The government makes money when money changes hands. Raising taxes takes money from people and companies allowing them to spend less and hence creating fewer taxing opportunities. So as a result it is possible for the government to raise taxes and take in less money.
If you lower taxes, there is more free flowing money in the economy and more opportunities for money exchanging hands. So you can actually increase federal revenue by reducing the amount of tax, but increasing the opportunity to gather the tax.
It’s not different than the difference between companies like Aston Martin and Honda. Aston Martin makes a lot of money per car, but sells few cars. Honda makes a much smaller percentage per car but sells many more cars. Which company is bigger and which makes more money? If you said Aston Martin, you are incorrect.
If you are in an economic boom period, you can slightly increase taxes without causing much detriment to the economy. If you raise them when in a economic valley, you can not only slow the economy even more, but also cause a situation where the government is taking in even less than it was before the increase, because the taxes further jam the flow of money.
Also, cutting spending and reducing waste would help tremendously. Before any move on taxes are made, some serious cleaning up needs to be done.
P.S. Your 1980 Toyota is a polution machine. You hate the Earth.
samuel
November 17th, 2009
10:14 am
I have made this point too many times to count on the AJC’s political blogs, but the last Republican president to present a budget surplus was Eisenhower, 49 years ago. The last 3 Republican presidents have exploded the budget deficit, starting with Ronald Reagan. The last President to present budget surpluses was Bill Clinton, and he did it 4 years in a row (FY1998-2001). If people in general would live within their means, there would be much less personal debt in this country and we wouldn’t have to rely on China to finance our conspicuous consumption. So like Jay, drive a sensible car, if you need to drive one at all. For any conservatives or tea-baggers who spout drivel about “Reaganesque values” with concern to the budget, simply do a search for the Office of Management and Budget and click on “Historical Tables”.It will give you all the information you need about the federal budget. As for those who think that cutting welfare payments will help reduce the budget deficit, welfare reform was passed 13 years ago, and even at its peak was a tiny part of the federal budget. If you really want to cut the federal budget, you have to cut Social Security and defense spending. You can search for the Office of Management and Budget on Microsoft, Yahoo or Google. Hopefully, conservatives on this blog will do their research and come back with more informed opinions.
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
10:16 am
For those who think “Welfare Mothers” are a bunch of layabouts, I met a rather attractive young woman in college who had been happily married with three children. Unfortunately, her husband surrepticiously abandoned her. Yes, she was on welfare. BUT, she was attending college to better herself and get a decent job.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
10:17 am
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:13 am
Amen.
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:18 am
When w cut taxes for his friends with two occupations going, he tossed fiscal cons under the bus.
What makes you thin the gop will not do the same if elected?
They will.
They don’t solve problems.
They create them.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:18 am
Soothsayer
**she was attending college to better herself and get a decent job.**
That is what public assistance is for. But unfortunately, your story is powerful because it is the rare exception, and certainly not the rule.
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
10:19 am
NIF,
Yes, that does help, thanks. How much have your health costs gone up over the past year?
Scooter
November 17th, 2009
10:19 am
Thanks getalife! (cough)
Mrs. Godzilla
November 17th, 2009
10:20 am
Just foolin’ around….
lipton envelopes
orange pekoe sacks
earl grey purses
luzianne pouch
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
10:20 am
Pat:
Your theory has already been proposed and implemented by Arthur Laffer under President Ronald Reagan. It was called the Laffer curve. I think it should have been called the “laugher” curve. Ronald Reagan and GHW Bush ran up more deficit in their presidencies than ALL OF THE PRESIDENTS WHO PRECEEDED THEM ALL THE WAY BACK TO GEORGE WASHINGTON added together.
Jimmy Carter
November 17th, 2009
10:22 am
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
10:20 am
….and sadly, Private Obama will set the new record….
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:23 am
You’re welcome Scooter.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:24 am
Bosch
Not any this year, but last year they went up. i think it was about 4%. Most of our workers are young and health care isn’t that much. I do expect another 4-6% at the end of the year, but that’s about even with inflation.
I have a good provider. I hope that you are not insinuating that any health care plan that has been offered will lower those costs? If we get a public option, we plan to keep our provider as long as we can.
George W.Bush
November 17th, 2009
10:26 am
Why does matter that Obama wore a bow, Ilike bows.
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
10:26 am
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
10:05 am
Yes…I definitly skipped all of that as anything disagreeing with MY world view, economic, financial, spiritual or otherwise, is deemed propoganda and probably originates from the Axis of Evil.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:28 am
mm
I thought that you would jump at the chance to tell us all why anyone supporting Palin would be a loon. I’m surprised that you haven’t been all over this.
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
10:29 am
Complete and totally indoctrinated by the media. THey no longer even ask why. And sadly enough, they are allowed to vote.
Strange words coming from someone that claims to be so learned and so knowledgable regarding the mistakes that history teaches us. I think NIF has been indoctrinated given that talk of his. Who are “they”, NIF. Are “they” your boogeymen. “They” sound more like a pigment of your imagination.
AmVet
November 17th, 2009
10:31 am
“China questions costs of U.S. healthcare reform… ”
JC, no, they’re not the conned, they’re just communists. And gawd do those creeps know how to play American politicians, who no longer even pretend to represent or protect we the people, for the easy marks they really are.
PinkoNeoConLibertarian, Booger’s response is just juvenile nonsense based on deep ignorance and inability to adequately understand the topic at hand – corporate welfare.
Your response warrants one.
Here is the irrefutable fact. Since 1983 American worker productivity has doubled. YET, for 80% of them, their income has DECREASED in adjusted inflation dollars.
How do you explain this?
The plutocrats who run/intentionally mismanage these corporations make what about 7,000 workers make.
The deck is HEAVILY stacked against the American taxpayer, share holder, pensioner and consumer.
Why are so few of you “conservatives” outraged at this? Hell, most won’t even acknowledge it!
I have demanded that these corporations are no longer exempted from the rule of law. That they FULLY pay what they owe. That they are no longer allowed to play endless off-shore shell games with the hidden money that belongs to Uncle Sam.
I am a small business owner and I am decidedly pro business. And I am not anti-corporation. I am fervently opposed to this MASSIVE and ongoing corporate crime wave – that neither you, the politicians nor the corporate owned mainstream media will even mention much less address – and the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism as evidenced in such ugly fashion last September.
That those who so easily excuse this quasi-criminal behavior says more about them than me.
And though rhetorical, I again ask when did the GOP become the anti-law and order party?
Mrs. Godzilla
November 17th, 2009
10:31 am
NIF
I agree with David Brooks’ on the Lovely Gov.
danjonglee
November 17th, 2009
10:32 am
Who has been in control of congress since 06? Where does spending originate…? It appears we going with 2b…
Bosch
November 17th, 2009
10:33 am
NIF,
No, nothing nefarious from me today. It is actual curiosity. I wish the ByteMe were present so he could weigh in too – I believe he owns his own business as well and could give insight.
Later folks!
Mrs. G.,
Smells yummy!
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:34 am
Taxpayer
OK. I’ll ask you: What is your problem with Sarah Palin. Specifics, please.
Doggone/GA
November 17th, 2009
10:36 am
“I agree with David Brooks’ on the Lovely Gov.”
Here’s a question: are you entitle to the courtesy of the last “title” you held if you didn’t complete your time in office?
Hard Right Hook
November 17th, 2009
10:37 am
“A fiscal conservative in GOP parlance is someone who cuts taxes, period.”
Partially correct. We believe in cutting taxes, because we also believe in a Constitutionally limited federal government. We also believe devoutly in the 10th Amendment, pushing many issues down to the state level. Central planning governments have never worked, and there’s no reason they will.
Good to hear you’re a fiscal conservative, Komrad Jay.
Nothing Is Free
November 17th, 2009
10:37 am
Mrs. Godzilla
So you think that she is a fatal cancer to the Republican Party. And you don’t like her because of that? LOL!!
I thought that would make you be her biggest fan.
AmVet
November 17th, 2009
10:37 am
One typo in my manifesto – the year is 1973 not 1983.
Which is even MORE astounding…
And even more evidence of this pro-corporate anti-American fascism…
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
10:37 am
AmVet
November 17th, 2009
10:31 am
“Booger’s response is just juvenile nonsense based on deep ignorance and inability to adequately understand the topic at hand – corporate welfare.”
I must disagree with you.
“Here is the irrefutable fact. Since 1983 American worker productivity has doubled. YET, for 80% of them, their income has DECREASED in adjusted inflation dollars.”
Perhaps, however, salary for “Boogers for the children fund” grown quite a lot…probably quadrupling ie “Y x 4 = Boogers for the childrens fund, salary” with Y being the 1983 figure. Doubtful that inflation has grown at such an alarming rate.
AmVet you should invest in the stock market and get some gravy. Or perhaps relax with a nice frosty Pabst Blue Ribbon!!
Soothsayer
November 17th, 2009
10:38 am
Jimmy Carter:
What you and everyone else should remember is that we have reached the end of the dead end street of neo-liberal economics which was begun during Ronald Reagan’s presidency.
One of the hallmarks of neo-liberal economics is globalization. Because of globalization, we have stripmined our economy of good-paying manufacturing jobs and sent those jobs to countries where wages are less than $1.00 and hour.
This is supply-side economics at it’s very best. Unfortunately, supply is not our problem. China can supply all of the world’s goods many times over.
The problem is lack of demand. What the “Chicago School” and Milton Friedman overlooked was that every good-paying job sent overseas reduces demand in the “Demand Country” which is what we are supposed to be.
This went on for years until we reached the “tipping point.” What year that happened is open for debate.
Now, we are stuck on this dead-end street and no one can figure out how to turn around and get out of it.
Since globalization has been carried out by world corporations, government has little, if any, ability to change course. And, as we all know, government can’t control corporations because corporations control government.
Doggone/GA
November 17th, 2009
10:38 am
“So you think that she is a fatal cancer to the Republican Party”
I suspect Mrs G is talking about THIS: David Brooks on Sarah Palin: “She’s a joke”
Admit it
November 17th, 2009
10:39 am
Can’t the dittoheads just admit they bought Going Rogue because they thought it was a pictorial of Palin going commando?
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
10:39 am
AMVET…that screws up my arithmetic. *sigh*
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 17th, 2009
10:40 am
Admit it
November 17th, 2009
10:39 am
Seeya…going to get my copy now!!! LMAO!!
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:40 am
A quitter that can’t tell the truth about anything but she would guarantee an Obama second term if you run her.
70% thinks she is not qualified and another w.
Put her on your RW news channel with Dobbs.
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
10:44 am
Well, Bosch. If you are interested in talking real numbers rather than this faux yapping from the resident right wing crowd, my health insurance premium is going up 38% effective January. The nationwide average increase that I have heard is something like 8 to 10%.
jt
November 17th, 2009
10:45 am
Hey AmVet-
Did you go by that gator farm?
They serve a damn good corndog there.
Taxpayer
November 17th, 2009
10:45 am
Can’t the dittoheads just admit they bought Going Rogue because they thought it was a pictorial of Palin going commando?
I’ll bet it doesn’t even come with lead-free crayons.
pat
November 17th, 2009
10:46 am
Sooth, obama has already trumped them by a looong way. 1.4 trillion dollars for fiscal year 2009. It has never ever ever been that high in history. We no longer talking percentages, we’re talking exponents.
That’s not necessarily the laffer curve, it is basic economics you learn in high school. The laffer curve is based on this.
Deficits are ran up by excessive spending.
As you can see by this report, Goverment reciepts rose by 20% due to Bush’s tax cuts, but his drunken spending drove revenue down. He spent more then he was taking in.
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html
If spending is kept static, or reduced the model works flawlessly. It’s as basic as it gets. If you spend more than you take in, well then it really doesn’t matter which model you employ your screwed.
getalife
November 17th, 2009
10:46 am
AmVet,
The tarp watchdog issued a report on the AIG bailouts.
Massive failure and fraud by Tim.