Should Obama take his orders from the generals?
President Obama is being told to follow the advice of his generals and provide them the troops they have requested in Afghanistan. Ten Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee, including Saxby Chambliss of Ga., pressed that point in a letter this week, urging Obama to “move now to fully support General McChrystal’s call for additional resources and troops.”
But you know, if presidents always followed the advice of generals, this would be a very different world.
To hear some people tell it, Harry Truman, a mere haberdasher from Kansas City, should have bowed to Gen. Douglas MacArthur’s demand that we bomb China during the Korean War, a step that probably would have touched off an all-out land war in Asia and even brought the Soviet Union to fight alongside China against us.
That would have turned out so very well.
By that notion, Ike Eisenhower should have dropped nuclear weapons on China in 1954, as recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time. Sure, using nukes against Communist China might have touched off a pesky little nuclear war with the Soviet Union, but surely that would have been a small price to pay in return for stopping the Chinese from shelling two tiny islands, Quemoy and Matsu, in the Taiwan Strait.
During the Cuban Missile Crisis, John Kennedy — a mere PT boat captain in the war — should have followed the unanimous urging of the generals on the Joint Chiefs by launching a full-blown invasion of Cuba and capturing or killing the Soviet personnel who were manning nuclear missiles on that island. Sure, the Soviets would have retaliated by trying to take West Berlin, which we would have been forced to defend, probably setting off yet another world war in western Europe. But hey, that’s what the generals advised, right? Who was Kennedy to argue otherwise?
Instead, Kennedy insisted that another way be found, and it was. The missiles were removed peacefully; the crisis was averted; nuclear Armageddon was avoided. And still some of the generals weren’t satisfied. Gen. Curtis LeMay, the Air Force chief of staff, was still grumbling after the fact that the outcome represented “the greatest defeat in our history.”
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156 comments Add your comment
Gale
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
Gamers will tell you it is a bad idea to start a land war in China.
There is a reason our Sec.s of military are civilians. Listen to generals, yes. But also listen to diplomats. The CiC is tasked with making the hard decisions.
Doggone/GA
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
Anyone care to make a guess how many posts we’ll get before one of the “make a decision now” crowd gets their mantra in?
Jackie
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
The President is the Commander-In-Chief.
The generals take their orders from the President.
RW-(the original)
November 13th, 2009
2:16 pm
Of course when you hand pick a general and tell him what his new mission is, then ask him to tell you what he needs to implement that mission you might be a little more inclined to listen.
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:17 pm
Of course Obama should not take “orders” from his generals. He should take their “advice” and then he will make his “political” decision and he will have to live with that decision. Others, basically the men and women he commands will have to live or die by his decision.
By the way, Luckovich’s cartoon was cute today but the caption should have been “Don’t Ask, Don’t Trust”. I state again that the time has come to polygraph (as we do many public servants) those wishing to serve in our military to determine their loyalty to the Constitution of the United States.
Doggone/GA
November 13th, 2009
2:18 pm
“you might be a little more inclined to listen”
Listen yes…agreeing with his assessment is not automatic though.
Pennsylvanian
November 13th, 2009
2:18 pm
Should Obama take his orders from the generals? Absolutely not. The framers wisely decided to make the civilian president Commander in Chief. On the other hand, POTUS Obama needs to make a decision on Afghanistan. He chose Gen. McChrystal to implement the ‘well thought out’ strategy announced in March. The General has advised the President what he believes is needed to succeed. Others disagree. Fair enough. Bring the troops home now. Keep the Predators deployed, and use them when given a clear shot.
Swami Dave
November 13th, 2009
2:19 pm
Now, there is President Obama – a mere community organizer and state senator – whose only connections to ANY war are via his connections to Bill Ayers whose “war” was against the U.S. Government.
By the way, how long did Eisenhower or Kennedy take to decide what actions they would ultimately take?
-SD
booger
November 13th, 2009
2:19 pm
Since Obama obviously has no other ideas about what to do, I think listening to the Generals is not a bad idea. And regardless of your spin, I’m positive no one suggested he take his “orders” from the Generals. Just a bit of sensationalism.
Normal
November 13th, 2009
2:21 pm
Jackie
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
The President is the Commander-In-Chief.
The generals take their orders from the President.
Jackie said it all. There is no need to say more except, President Obama, bring our troops home now!
Jay, next thread, please.
Kamchak
November 13th, 2009
2:24 pm
Anyone care to make a guess how many posts we’ll get before one of the “make a decision now” crowd gets their mantra in?
Looks like the magic number is 8.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:24 pm
1) Obama won’t be following orders from Draft Dodger Extraordinaire Chamgliss who lied and claimed he had a “knee injury” and is known for scooting all over golf courses in the DC Virginia Maryland area.
2) We should be out of Iraq and Afghanistan and never should have been there.
3) Obama won’t be taking orders from McChrhystal who lied about Pat Tillman repeatedly or his Sec Def.
Their efforts have resulted in mass deaths of Iraquis and Amercian soldiers for several years.
McChryhstal and Petraeus are both stupidly overrated. They have been colossal failures unless you consider mass death a mark of success.
Republicans aren’t backing the troops because they can’t and won’t get Tom Coburn out of the way blocking veterans’ health benfits.
Republicans no more believe in teh wars they promote than the man in the moon.
There are no Leiberman, Bush, Chambliss, Issacson or Cheney progeny in the Armed Forces because like their parents, they are scared to death of serving.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:26 pm
Listening to the generals during the past 9 years has resulted in Mass Death and trillions of dollars hemorrhaged. They have been colossal failures and effups.
Normal
November 13th, 2009
2:26 pm
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:17 pm
CS, back in the ’50’s a Senator McCarthy was demanding every Officer in the American Armed Forces sign a loyality oath. Do you think anyone with ulterior motives would hesitate to sign an oath?
Polygraphs can and have been beaten and are too time consuming. Good thought but unworkable…
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:28 pm
Food for thought:
“A bad plan executed violently is better than a good plan executed slowly.”
General George S. Patton
“Bureaucrats begin by “wanting” to do good things but quickly find themselves co-opted by the inertia-ridden structure and subsequently find it perfectly sufficient to mark territory, verify their positions in the pecking order, and attempt to exert a modicum of influence on those who can’t defend themselves.”
Colonel Jack Jacobs (Ret.)
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
John Stuart Mill
“Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea.” Samuel Johnson (1709-1784).
Jackie
November 13th, 2009
2:28 pm
@Normal
SALUTE!!
Nothing Is Free
November 13th, 2009
2:28 pm
We have one of the world’s most accomplished politicians in the White House. As soon as that politician decides to become a leader, maybe then he will make a decision. Until then, how about a few hundred more speeches. He does that very well, as long as his teleprompter doesn’t go down.
Soldiers, be patient. While the decision to spend $800 billion and then $1.2 trillion are forced to be made in a very few days, your problems aren’t nearly as important. There’s power to grab and money to be borrowed. The democrats have a country to destroy and as soon as Obama takes a break from that, world travel, playing golf and making speech after speech after speech, he will get to your silly problems.
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:30 pm
To Normal:
Polygraphs are a GREAT investigative tool. They are not perfect but they can lower the odds substantially. Guess what ……….. there is PLENTY of time in boot camp and officer training for that one basic area of loyalty to be determined.
Normal
November 13th, 2009
2:33 pm
NIF, I don’t want to have to get into this again with you, but President Obama wouldn’t be having to make these decisions if, in the last eight years, decisions had been properly made.
Doggone/GA
November 13th, 2009
2:34 pm
“Polygraphs are a GREAT investigative tool”
Problem is, you have to actually be lieing to get caught. Some of the greatest advocates for subverting our Constitution would NO DOUBT be absolutely sincere when they say they ARE loyal to it.
Jackie
November 13th, 2009
2:34 pm
@NIF
Apparently you don’t believe there is US soldiers being killed and maimed in Afghanistan?
Would sending several Army divisions, wings of the Air Force and Marine Division bring a halt to the killing in Afghanistan on the day they arrive?
A good idea would be for YOU to “take the point” and lead the assault.
jconservative
November 13th, 2009
2:37 pm
“Of course when you hand pick a general and tell him what his new mission is, then ask him to tell you what he needs to implement that mission you might be a little more inclined to listen.”
Unless you gather additional information, reassess the situation there & in the area, and then change the mission. This is what is happening, the mission is changing. McChrystal, or his replacement, will be given the manpower & equipment to carry out the mission.
You might want to make a side bet on “replacement”.
TW
November 13th, 2009
2:39 pm
Saxby? Isn’t he the guy with nine deferments, none bad enough to keep him off the tee? Or was that Cheney?
Either way, if we passed the hat and collected liquor money and green fees for life, could we get Saxby to quit?
Only in GA….may God forgive
Taxpayer
November 13th, 2009
2:39 pm
Saxby Chambliss! Isn’t he that guy that stormed into a meeting where a guy from Imperial Sugar was talking and jumped the guy as though he were a criminal for trying to save peope’s lives. I think I’ve also heard stuff about him getting a deferment in order to free up his time to play more golf or something like that. If I were Obama, I think I’d film using that letter to light a yule tide log or maybe as a bird cage liner or a wadded up ball for the dog to play with. The possibilities are endless. I’d also be tempted to write Saxby a letter thanking him for his most convincing argument to further cut F-22 production.
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:40 pm
Headline: “Army says morale down among troops ……. ”
Does that include private Obama since he is the Commander in Chief? He looked a little “down” the other day.
P.S. To Doggone/Ga.:
You need to do your research. Numerous agencies (FBI, Secret Service, CIA, etc., etc.) use it quite effectively to weed out “undesireable” applicants ……….. let alone it’s effectiveness in criminal investigations.
TW
November 13th, 2009
2:42 pm
Hasn’t the right had enough fun playing ‘vicarious soldier’ with our troops?
Geez…buy a video game…or better yet, grow a pair
Bosch
November 13th, 2009
2:42 pm
Generals are in the business to fight wars and of course they are going to tell you how to solve a problem militarily – that’s about the “duh”est thing there is. A general is not going to sit around and try to solve things diplomatically because that is not what they do – and if I were in charge of things and a general came to me with that, I’d find someone else to replace him.
Normal
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
CS, again, you and I are in agreement about polygraphs but there are thousand of troops going to boot camp and OCS. The logistics of it would be staggering. Also, to force a man or woman, who is volunteering to service for our country, being subjected to that kind of suspicion at the very beginning of their time in, would be a bit disconcerting, don’t you think?
getalife
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Treasury Confident Congress Will Increase $12.1 Trillion Debt Ceiling…
Depends on China buying more of our country but if the military wanted to nuke China, that’s just insane like nif.
Had a sweet dream about Carrie last night.
Pennsylvanian
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Saxby Chambliss pressured the INS to back off illegal immigrant workers in Georgia to protect the Vidalia onion harvest. The only reason he defeated Max Cleland is Max forgot he was sent to the Senate to represent Georgians, not the Democrat party.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
The nitwit in the WSJ Mathew Continetti writes of the reintroduction of Palin. Like H1N1 that did not go away this summer, it was my impression that Palin did not go away.
She quit being governor because she was lazy and unqualified and her most notable accomplishment since she doesn’t write her facebook page is her feud with naked in playgirl son in law Levi Johnston.
Maybe we can look forward to dooling centerfolds, or dual(ing) centerfolds. That would be appropriate for her level of understanding.
Jimmy Carter
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Take orders? No
Heed advice? Yes
Bosch
November 13th, 2009
2:45 pm
Psssst. Normal – over here [waving hand over]
I think that Block means that only for those who want to volunteer in the Army who have the funny names like Hassan or Abdul.
Okay, carry on.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 13th, 2009
2:46 pm
Oh hell no.
That’s just plain silly.
Jimmy Carter
November 13th, 2009
2:46 pm
Doggone/GA
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
Probably not as many posts as those who feel Private Obama can do no wrong.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:47 pm
Would it be dueling centerfolds or dualing centerfolds if Palin were to appear in the same centerfold with Johnston?
Bosch
November 13th, 2009
2:48 pm
Pennsylvanian,
The only reason Saxby Chambliss continues to be a Senator is because he is a corporate whore and low life human being who accuses his opponents of being murderers, and the stupid people who vote for him who believe such non-sense.
TGT
November 13th, 2009
2:48 pm
According to The Cold War Musuem:
“On 12 September 1954 the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) recommended the possibility of using nuclear weapons against China. And on 23 November 1954 China sentenced 13 US airmen shot down over China in the Korean War to long jail terms, prompting further consideration of nuclear strikes against China.”
Note the phrases: “possibility of using nuclear weapons” and “consideration of nuclear strikes”
In 1955 Secretary of State Dulles publicly stated that the US was seriously considering using atomic weapons in the Quemoy-Matsu area. And the following day President Eisenhower publicly stated that “Of course they (nuclear weapons) would be used,” adding that “I see no reason why they shouldn’t be used just exactly as you would use a bullet.”
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Obama will heed advice of the nitwits who have run the Iraq war into the ground about as soon as the Leiberman, Chamblis, Issacson and Purdue children join the armed forces. Oh wait–they’re white peoples. White peoples rarely join the armed forces anymore.
getalife
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Sarah and Carrie.
Normal
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Bosch
November 13th, 2009
2:45 pm
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Jackie
November 13th, 2009
2:15 pm
Obobo is the Campaigner in Chief, must use a teleprompter to utter even the most simple of sentences, rose to the grand rank of community organizer, didnt bother so show up and vote almost 50% of the time, is inexperienced, is probably a worse leader than Jimmy Carter – no offense Jimmy and is pro-Acorn.
Need I say more.
We should pull out all troops from afghanistan this weekend along with stealing all the heroin.
Jimmy Carter
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:44 pm
Her level of understanding? Unlike Joe the Biden, I’m sure she knows how to spell “job”. She probably also knows that (1) the Depression hit in 1929, (2) FDR was not president in at that time, and (3) few, if any, American households had TVs in ‘29.
Time to stop dwelling on who “may” have been VP and start being more concerned about who is.
Nothing Is Free
November 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
Normal
He also wouldn’t need to be making these decisions if he would have realized his potential and remained as a community organizer. I’m sure that somewhere there is a church social needs to be organized.
The bad news is, as president he will need to make decisions. The reasons that those decisions need to be made are debatable. if Clinton would have pulled the trigger on Obama, chances are that he wouldn’t need to be making the decisions, either.
Woulda, shoulda, coulda is no way to run a country.
Doggone/GA
November 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
“You need to do your research”
And what part of “you have to actually be lieing” did you not understand?
mike
November 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
So Obama disagrees with the generals, so Jay is going to rush to his defense and compare McChrystal with LeMay. How pathetic.
I don’t get it. Last year Obama and the liberal media loved to talk about Afghanistan, the “real battlefront against Islamic terror”, the “war of necessity” and that Iraq was a “distraction”. At the same time we were told by this crowed that Bush had dangerously under-resourced the Afghan mission. Now Obama is provided with several plans to address that “shortcoming” and Obama is hesitating and the liberal media is admonishing him not to send any more troops.
Apparently, all of Obama’s and the left’s carping about “under-resourcing” of the “war of necessity” was just empty partisan rhetoric employed to get Obama in office.
Common Sense
November 13th, 2009
2:51 pm
To Jimmy Carter:
May I expand on your 2:44 just a little.
This debate really needs to be broken down into “strategic” and “tactical” decision making.
The President is ultimately responsible for making a strategic decision on what should be done. If that involves the use of military force, then the President “orders” them in. The military then will advise the President on what it will take “tactically” to accomplish the mission. At that point, is where everything starts to break down.
Most politicians then start wobbling because although they have a strategy, they don’t have the guts for the tactical part. Ultimately, that means American soldiers wind up sacrificing their lives needlessly (i.e., 58,000 on the Vietnam Wall).
Jimmy Carter
November 13th, 2009
2:52 pm
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
Are you a “white peoples”? Or are you a “black peoples”? Or maybe are you a “yellow peoples”? Or even a “brown peoples”?
Boogers for the Children Fund
November 13th, 2009
2:52 pm
Obobo should probably take orders from little Sasha. She couldnt possibly do as awful as her daddy.
Bosch
November 13th, 2009
2:52 pm
Teleprompters, Biden, and “Obama’s just some dumb ol’ community organizer.”
Oh, my!