Historic vote looms on Capitol Hill today
It’s a big day, perhaps even a historic day on Capitol Hill today as the House opens floor debate on the health care bill. Lots of drama, intrigue and horse-trading as Nancy Pelosi tries to herd at least 218 cats — aka Democrats — onto the “Yea” side of the yeas and nays. (The Republicans say they will vote unanimously against the bill.)
So, if your favorite college football team is getting waxed and you can’t bear to watch any longer, you can switch over to watch democracy in action on C-Span all day and into the evening. Paul Kane at the Washington Post has a good “viewers’ guide” on the day’s proceedings.
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664 comments Add your comment
jconservative
November 7th, 2009
10:23 am
Representative Jim Marshall, Democrat from the Macon area, has announced a NO vote on the House bill.
There are sure to be other NO votes from the Democratic side.
I would vote NO because I see nothing in any bill that addresses the pending crisis in Medicare/Medicaid in the next 10 years. Sweeping the dirt under the rug accomplishes nothing.
Go Jackets & Dawgs!
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
10:34 am
Good, new thread, thank you, Jay, now it’s back to nasty as normal around here! A time and a place for it all…
getalife
November 7th, 2009
10:42 am
The dems in red districts will vote no, the bill will pass with 218.
LSU will beat Alabama.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
10:44 am
All right, let the good times roll–Barney Frank’s latest, here’s a good one for the snicker snicker crowd…whoo, whee! And he claims he “didn’t know” what his partner was up to? Unh, huh, sure. What kind of relationship is that? Of course, Barney’s got his on problems here with the cat herding and the more pressing issue of this bill and I wish him luck there, but let’s do be fair and balanced in our snicker snicker…
Joan
November 7th, 2009
10:44 am
If you want to call this Democracy go ahead. But those lunatics in Congress are certainly not representing the people that put them there, except maybe Pelosi since she comes from the land of fruits and nuts. The passage of this bill will prove absolutely that government and those in control have taken off on “a frolic of their own” as they say in the law. They are no longer our agents or stewards of our faith. God help us all.
AmVet
November 7th, 2009
10:46 am
Off topic but damn encouraging…
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/11/05/kiss.wounded.soldiers.cnn
And in that clip they’re playing their best (IMHO) tune ever…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpRIQ_8ufqg
Brad Steel
November 7th, 2009
10:48 am
One of the few bright spots in the American health care morass: longevity expectations if you are over 65.
Hmm, that’s the same time Medicare kicks in. Coincidence? – no way.
I hope congress will move health care and our social safety net into the 21st century. Or maybe we can stay in the triangular hat, tea party era.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 7th, 2009
10:49 am
Um, this is socialism in action.
A “democracy” of The People and For the People would be concentrating on employment, the economy and deporting ragheads that openly admire the jihad.
Alas, we have this, instead.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
10:51 am
Doing it on a Non-News day.
Making it take affect after Obama has ran for a second term.
It stinks. And it really stinks bad.
Thank God that this is just the House. Getting it through the Senate where there are much fewer legislators involved will point a huge spotlight on anyone voting for the bill. If the democrats can’t do it in the dark, where no one can blame them, it won’t pass.
They may not like personal responsibility, but their voters WILL hold them responsible for the votes they cast.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
10:54 am
AmVet–
@ 10:46
Igen! Es beszél magyarul!
Kiss? Now why doesn’t that surprize me?
AmVet
November 7th, 2009
10:54 am
And for all of you Yankee haters (and lovers), here’s a reason to dig Johnny Damon, the son of a Vietnam vet, for his work with that same organization…
https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/content/view/373/919/
@@
November 7th, 2009
11:05 am
ABM:
My daughter, too, was reading at three. While whole language was the preferred method in kindergarten, my early attention to phonetics put her at a fifth grade reading level in kindergarten. Her teacher was astounded.
Unbeknownst to me, it’s benefited her greatly in her graduate studies. Transposing words into phonetic language. Both of her roommates are speech pathology majors. They can’t grasp it. It comes natural to my daughter.
Recent studies have shown that infants can better grasp phonetics/words because they respond to auditory and visual stimuli simultaneously.
Whodathunkit?
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:10 am
@@
Mine were reading at three, too. So was I. Same reason. We’re finally getting back to it in the classroom and us old f*rts are having to teach the teachers…whole language was a fiasco…
getalife
November 7th, 2009
11:13 am
I like Damon and thought he was the missing link for a Yankees come back. Saw him on Cribs and his wife is smoking hot. A very happy man.
Obama has them working on Saturday and making history again.
The right are using the same arguments they used for Social Security and Medicare.
It will have the same outcome.
@@
November 7th, 2009
11:18 am
Nothing is Free:
I’m outta here after this comment. I was delving into what goes on behind the scenes when selecting a candidate…Dem or Rep. What I found most interesting was the different way constituents respond.
Dems? Go along to get along. It’s all about the party/collective. Baaa aaaa
Conservatives? A resistance to being led by politicians. Principles are what drive us. Freedom from government interference being the most important.
Just my perspective. 2 cents and NOW……I’m outta….
getalife
November 7th, 2009
11:20 am
Getting ugly already with gop trying to disrupt the process.
#1 Foxy Lady
November 7th, 2009
11:22 am
Fixing the health care system is gonna be another big win for President Barak H. Obama.
SUCK IT LOSERS!!!
Bruno
November 7th, 2009
11:24 am
“:-OMG! I LUV’D that Springsteen, “She’s the One”. Had me dancin’ with a capital “D”.
“Thanks for the heartwarming story…gives you pause to think about our own petty little “problems,” doesn’t it?”
Thanks for the shouts, @@ and josef.
“Django Reinhardt’s music”
Django was one of Jerry Garcia’s musical heroes and cited him as a big influence and inspiration.
Kamchak–Good job with “The Living Years”
AmVet–Sometimes it’s like your in my living room pulling out my favorite CDs. Awesome Elton John selections, a couple of my favorites.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:26 am
BRUNO
Django Reihardt was also a big influence on BB King…
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:28 am
Fixing the health care system? This is a kiss it, make it all better, put a band-aid on it, take two aspirins and call me in the morning. Better than nothing, true, but not by much…
Bruno
November 7th, 2009
11:31 am
“Fixing the health care system is gonna be another big win for President Barak H. Obama.”
Unfortunately, the approach taken by the Democrats isn’t going to fix anything except the wallets of the insurance companies. The #1 problem in our health care system is waste and fraud. A Price Waterhouse audit recently put the figure at 55% of all dollars spent on health care. Forcing everyone to purchase insurance at the point of a gun does nothing to address this. If single-payer is the goal, then be honest and put single-payer out there for a vote.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:31 am
ROLL TIDE!!!
josef
No snicker, snicker before noon!!
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:35 am
ABM–
Gotcha! But what am I to do with all those snicker snicker bars left over from Hallowe’en?
Bruno–forgot…Jerry Jeff Walker named his son Django…
Bruno
November 7th, 2009
11:35 am
ABM–Any opinion that Alabama can cover a (-7 1/2) spread today? I’m leaning toward LSU, but have a hard time betting against Alabama.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:36 am
Bruno
That’s scary if the PWC figures are anywhere near correct. If you add in the overhead costs with that, there’s gotta be room for the ins companies to overhaul the system on their own without gov’t intervention.
What needs to happen is that citizens need to band together themselves and fight the system. Start co-ops and networks where the citizen can take care of each other and avoid the middle man altogether.
Bruno
November 7th, 2009
11:37 am
Gotta run and get my picks together. Here’s an oldie but goodie for everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbJciFPDJ7I
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:38 am
Bruno
I don’t know about that spread. I’m thinking it’s going to be a nail-biter. I’m predicting LSU on the short end by no more than 3.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:39 am
josef
After noon, it’s ok to break out the snicker, snicker. But just like anything else, do it in moderation. Too much of anything is never good for you.
Bruno
November 7th, 2009
11:40 am
“I don’t know about that spread. I’m thinking it’s going to be a nail-biter. I’m predicting LSU on the short end by no more than 3.”
I’m thinking along the same line, barring an outright upset. For some reason the Tide O has cooled off despite no major personnel changes. Their D is tight, but LSU will likely score around 21 points, I think.
AmVet
November 7th, 2009
11:45 am
B, glad you like that Reg Dwight stuff. For a few years he was amazing…
He just didn’t haven’t the staying power this guy did.
From 1972…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG5VEYAqnQw&feature=related
And from 2008..
We didn’t want no trouble
But trouble’s what we have
You call it paranoia
And have yourself a laugh
And avoid the confrontation
Until some other year
Somebody call the boys cause there’s no men in here
Some are unready, some are unwilling
Some are still able but ain’t got the feeling
Talking real loud at the back of the crowd
I’m calling you by name to bite the bullet
Manup
http://www.lala.com/#song/1657606195417222896
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:46 am
ABM
Right you are! Gotta keep that cute and sweet to a minimum!
BTW–so, you’re working with her on phonics? That’s the way to go in my opinion…there’s a great deal to recommend to tried and true…
Common Sense/Block #23
November 7th, 2009
11:48 am
“Too late for the ballot box,
Too early for the revolution.”
Common Sense/Block #23
November 7th, 2009
11:51 am
P.S. “Off Topic” ………..
Every soldier killed or wounded at Ft. Hood should receive a purple heart. This was just another battle in the War on Islamic Terrorism.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:52 am
ABM put it best on election day…too far to the left, swing right. Too far to the right, swing left. The problem is there’s nothing in the center to catch and hold and that’s too bad. That’s where most Americans are (not me, but then, G-d forbid, I should ever be in power!).
TW
November 7th, 2009
11:53 am
Why did we have to wait for the Dems to get control before we moved to fix healthcare?
Why didn’t the right do something about this earlier in the decade when they were green-lighting everything else that tickled their fancy?
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:56 am
josef
Not really focusing on phonics, but it kinda works out that way. She just picks up on everything. She’s like her daddy though, she can’t get enough of books.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
11:58 am
josef
I thought about drafting a letter to all moderates in Congress regardless of party affiliation about forming a third Centrist party and saying to hell with the other two. I think between moderate Repubs and Blue Dog Dems, we could turn that idea into a game changer.
Fair to Middling
November 7th, 2009
11:59 am
But, the GOP has an alternate health care plan. Their plan would extend coverage to an additional 3 million people by 2019. That only leaves 52 million uninsured while lowering the cost of health insurance for some by as much as 0 percent. And, the Republican bill will reduce the deficit over a 10 year period by 68 billion while the Democrat bill only reduces the deficit by 104 billion over the same time frame and extend coverage to most of those 52 million US citizens that the Republicans claim that we simply cannot afford to cover.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
11:59 am
ABM–
Children who see their parents reading see it as a just another part of life. If the parents don’t read, generally neither do their children. “Our children learn more by watching us than they do by listening to us” holds true…
@@
November 7th, 2009
12:00 pm
Oops! In my crocs (oh so ugly) and on my way out to the yard. Can’t let this one go without commenting.
KISS Gene Simmons…..he is conservative to the bone when it comes to the U.S.’s foreign policy and fiscal responsibility. For an old guy, I find him hot…hot…HOT!!!!
If I can find it, I’ll bring an online response he published to some pacifist that questioned his support for the War in Iraq….complete with strong profanity.
Yowzah!
Later…
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
12:06 pm
ABM @ 11:58
I agree wholeheartedly and now with this increasingly rigid polarization which is alienating great chunks of society would be a good time. The narrow agenda ridden (of whom I am one) have hijacked the two parties and have squared off against each other like two playground bullies and it would be fun except for the fact that their playground is the lawmaking arena…
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
12:07 pm
josef
“Our children learn more by watching us than they do by listening to us”
I’ve found that out recently. Anytime she sees sports on tv now, the ABD pumps her fist in the air and chants, “Go, go, go…” It’s both amusing and astonishing at the same time. It doesn’t matter what sport either. I’m just amazed that she knows the difference between sporting events and non sporting ones.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
12:11 pm
That you admit to being a part of the narrow agenda ridden says a lot about your character. I think we could turn you into a moderate.
I see nothing wrong with people having an agenda and working to get their agenda heard and acted on. My problem is when you try to force your agenda on everyone even if it’s to their detriment. When the Constitution says “to form a more perfect union”, I don’t think it wasn’t referring to personal implications but to finding the best solutions for the country as a whole. It seems as if we’ve gotten away from that in the last 30-40 years. We need another “greatest generation” to bring that focus back.
jconservative
November 7th, 2009
12:13 pm
“But those lunatics in Congress are certainly not representing the people that put them there.”
Wrong. Yes they are representating the people who put them there. A big portion of the citizens of this country want a big government health care system. Their congressmen will vote as they wish them to vote, unless an individual congressman feels he can lead his constitutents to another position. Few have the guts for that.
Fair to Middling
November 7th, 2009
12:16 pm
During the Industrial Revolution, workers who got sick didn’t earn money, so they formed what they called “friendly societies.” These were cooperatives into which workers paid monthly premiums, pooling their resources so they could continue the cash wages of workers who got sick. Those cooperatives became what are now called “sickness funds” in Germany.
Around the same time, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were stirring up the masses with their tracts, including “The Communist Manifesto.” To Otto von Bismarck, the so-called Iron Chancellor of Germany, it seemed that the only way to stop the growth of communism was to take the wind out of its sails by giving low-income people the things they craved — health care, education and a social safety net in general. So in 1883, he passed the Imperial Insurance Order which made it mandatory that all workers up to a certain income threshold pay premiums to such sickness funds. The R.V.O. still governs German health care, although it’s had a thousand amendments in the meantime.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
12:23 pm
ABM
Some of my opinions scare ME! The Unmentionable said of me, “just because he’s not looking for compromise doesn’t mean he doesn’t think it’s the best idea.” I’m perfectly happy being a part of the agenda-ridden since, be we left or right, it is us that the compromising should be listening to Take this healt care bill for example. I’m not at all happy with it. I want free, universal health care and won’t be satisfied until…but that puts me on the fringe and I know it. Then there are those who want the government out of it entirely, just as lunatic fringe. Somewhere in between is where most Americans are and that, using your choice of phrases, is where lies our more perfect union.
getalife
November 7th, 2009
12:23 pm
LSU by three.
Geaux Tigers.
The cons are following the progressive model of getting rid of moderates.
Establishing term limits by purging the corrupt politicians should be the goal but this is as close as it will get. Go cons and progressives. Purge away.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
12:30 pm
getalife
I agree on term limits and I think so does a comfortable majority. The problem is in getting the hawgs sloppin’ at the trough of the public coffer to agree and they’re the ones making the rules…a third party with term limits as a major plank of their platform would catch the public’s attention…
ROLLERGIRL
November 7th, 2009
12:35 pm
It will pass in the House, it will stall and die in the senate, and all the blue dog types who voted for it in the house …having been left out to dry by pelosi hussein obama…will be defeated as we will spend whatever it takes to do so
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 7th, 2009
12:36 pm
Well, here’s what we need to do about health care. Zero. Nothing.
I’m with the rest of the Conservatives here. I got mine and if you ain’t got yours it’s your fault. You made Bad Decisions and need to take Personal Responsibility.
Now if I was to loose mine I might could feel diffrent. But I ain’t lost mine so I say let the freeloaders fend for theirselfs. If a few die, well, that’s the way the old cookie crumbles. God didn’t guarantee you three score and ten years. Besides, we got two wars to fund and we can’t afford to throw away money on things that let people live.
Have a good Saturday everybody.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
12:37 pm
getalife
The Tigers will “Geaux” alright, they will “Geaux” west on I-20 with a L in the win-loss column
I think it’s going to be a close game though. I’m just hoping to be on the winning side once the dust clears.
josef
Third party w/term limits as major plank. I’m writing that down.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
12:39 pm
TW
**Why didn’t the right do something about this earlier in the decade when they were green-lighting everything else that tickled their fancy?**
Health Care Savings Plans.
Absolutely fantastic system. Of course, since that system doesn’t make anyone who helped elect Obama get filthy rich, it will be pulled from the system if this health bill takes over.
The problem with the good that the Republicans do, unless you watch FOX News, you will never hear about any of it.
If the Republican Party had a decent media relations system, the Democrats would never have a prayer.
getalife
November 7th, 2009
12:41 pm
josef,
Serve and go back to their regular jobs was the original idea and a good one.
Perhaps after the next collapse, we can return to this basic principle.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
12:41 pm
ABM–
I think about ten years ought to be enough. Time enough to get stuff done and not enough to get complacent…
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
12:43 pm
Fair to Middling
**But, the GOP has an alternate health care plan.**
The Republican Bill can’t compete with the obvious lies of the Democratic Bill. $500 billion from medicare without cutting services? Is anyone really dumb enough to believe that?
getalife
November 7th, 2009
12:45 pm
“The Tigers will “Geaux” alright, they will “Geaux” west on I-20 with a L in the win-loss column.”
Good one. I think LSU are 4-0 at Alabama.
Just sayin.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
12:47 pm
Term limits seems to have worked well enough in the executive and, checks and balances, would work just as well in the legislative and jucicial. George Washington set the standard.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
12:50 pm
Well uncle josef–
You mention the legislative and judicia.
Does it bother you that teachers have qualifications and standards, although the most enthusiastic who have spent their lives reading and learning history like yourself deliver that enthusiasm and it can’t be legislated
But how about the fact that several of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals judges have never set a toe in a courtroom litigating a case as an attorney?
Can you spell Buckhead Frank Hull? Never argued a case in a courtroom as she politically tripped onto different benches. And this is readily apparent in her questions at oral argument.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
12:51 pm
I sure have heard some terrible things about the GOP “healthcare bill” on the floor of the House today.
I’m thinking it’s as they say in medicine DOA.
Fair to Middling
November 7th, 2009
12:51 pm
Is anyone really dumb enough to believe that?
I don’t know.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
12:56 pm
Keep a few things in mind all you healthcare experts:
1) No bill that becomes law will take effect and impact would happen years after that earlier than 2013.
2) Both parties have committed to $200 billion in additional expenses and it will happen. This may or may not be part of the healthcare bills. This $200 billion will be committed to restore the 20% cut in Medicare because a significant number of physicians have vowed to bail out of Medicare if the cut were to persist.
3) The Dems are firm they will close the donut in part D–the part of Medicare patients use to buy their meds in all forms. This is the part the GOP imposed fiscal instablity in Medicare on by forbidding competitive drug bidding via consortium like Piedmont and Emory Healthcare hospitals in 2003. Led by Bill Frist, MD a thoracic surgeon from Vanderbilt Hospital, the deal was made with Big Pharma.
Ram Emanuel and the Senate Finance Six continued this deal meeting secretly in the West Wing in June, and the House plans to end it tonight. We’ll see.
It’s one of the major tenants of the House Bill.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
12:58 pm
And the donut varies of course depending on the individual patient’s Medicare plan, and if the patient is getting their meds from a teaching hospital like Grady, then it depends entirely upon the plan that the particular hospital like Grady accepts, or the private pharmacy accepts.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
1:02 pm
josef
Term limits would mean that politicians get together and pass a bill that would mean that they lose their sweet, power infested jobs in a defined amount of time. I wouldn’t hold my breath. I’m afraid that anything short of an armed uprising will fall far short of making politicians pass a bill where they will be firing themselves.
That is one of my two biggies.
The other is true education reform, i.e. the amount of Federal matching aid to public schools would be determined by the exact opposite of what is the current law. At present, the districts with the highest property taxes get the most Federal matching funds. That’s backwards. The poorest kids should go to the best schools. DUH? By enacting that system, we could fix poverty in less than 20 years.
Now the true question we need to ask ourselves is “Who profits the most from keeping a portion of our country poor and relying on the government to save them.” I think you know where I am heading with this.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 7th, 2009
1:06 pm
The problem is in getting the hawgs sloppin’ at the trough of the public coffer to agree and they’re the ones making the rules
Unfortunately, them hawgs will fly before anything changes. Maybe that’s why I’m an ornery ol’ cynic.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
1:07 pm
It seems to me after all is said and done that the largest impact on schools besides the teachers, is the constructive interest that parents can bring into the schools without interferring with the teachers.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
1:10 pm
getalife
All good things come to an end. Bryant-Denny will be glowing Crimson today, and I imagine the pulse will register on the Richter scale. I’ve got cold beer waiting on me once I get off.
josef
If you get the right people in office who care more about getting the job done instead of getting re-elected, term limits could be possible. I think a third party of moderates could do it. I know it’s a long shot, but you’ve got to have faith sometimes.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 7th, 2009
1:13 pm
Just curious, if the democrats own the House and the Senate, why do they have to “drum up” votes for this “wonderful” piece of legislation?
Hmmm, hmmmm, hmmmmm?
getalife
November 7th, 2009
1:15 pm
ABM,
5-0.
Beer is for Bama fans.
We drink Crown down here.
Fair to Middling
November 7th, 2009
1:15 pm
ornery ol’ cynics
are welcome.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:21 pm
G-DD–
Term limits on the judicial, too.
Hillbilly–good to hear from ya! Remember in “Lion in Winter?”
“That will be when pigs take wing!”
“Well, there’ll be pork in the treetops by morning!”
NIF–
Here goes! Get the feds the h*ll out of education! Get the state out. Put it back in the hands of the local community. There’s a good reason we had no federal role in education from the git-go. The New England element wanted it. The Southern element didn’t. The reason? Prussia had already pioneered free, universal and COMPULSORY education with the express aim of producing good little party line soldiers to serve the interests of the milaristic, centralized state. Jefferson and pals were against it because they were against its goals and aims for a free and democratic society. Well, we see what the Prussian system led to in the 1930s. The less government in the educational system, the better. It wasn’t that he was opposed to free public education, quite the opposite, he was opposed to it being controlled…
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
1:22 pm
getalife
Not just any beer, Paulaner Salvator Doppelbock. I’m drinking the good strong stuff. Saving the crown for tailgating tomorrow.
getalife
November 7th, 2009
1:23 pm
Corruption forced term limits in La. They put it on the ballot for the people to decide and it is working.
Of course, Jindal gutted the ethics rules to keep his friends happy so there are still sweetheart contracts. Then he gave the surplus to his friends and cut services for the people.
Typical gop crap.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
1:25 pm
Hillbilly
Where have you been? You missed a pretty good discussion on the Civil War about 2-3 weeks ago. I thought about you, and would have enjoyed your input on the subject.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:25 pm
G-DD
In my opinion education begins and ends in the home. There are many, many things that go into an individual’s education, schooling is only one of them.
ABM–
I know somebody campaigning on term limites would get my attention…
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:27 pm
Hillbilly
In re: ABM and the C*vil W*r discussion–it was a good one and I didn’t even get moderated!
getalife
November 7th, 2009
1:28 pm
ABM,
I’ll drink to that.
Cheers and may the best team win (LSU).
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
1:28 pm
getalife
I think they should populate ethics boards the same way they select people for jury duty. If no one knows who’s going to review their ethics complaints, it makes it harder to pay off the board. Trying to find ethics in politics nowadays is like looking for McDonalds hamburgers in India. They think they have ethics, but it is so far from what you’re used to that it’s no longer palatable.
Angry Black Man
November 7th, 2009
1:31 pm
tee hee hee best team /= LSU
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:32 pm
getalife–
You know how much I love Louisiana, but term limits there will just be term limits on corruption. But, as Huey said, share the wealth!
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 7th, 2009
1:33 pm
Josef and ABM
Sorry I missed the discussion; I’m sure I would have enjoyed it. I’ve had puter issues the last few weeks. Bought a new one but it seems to have its own set of issues. Ain’t technology grand?
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 7th, 2009
1:35 pm
I think they should populate ethics boards the same way they select people for jury duty. If no one knows who’s going to review their ethics complaints, it makes it harder to pay off the board.
Damn good idea.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:38 pm
“I think they should populate ethics boards the same way they select people for jury duty. If no one knows who’s going to review their ethics complaints, it makes it harder to pay off the board.”
I’ll vote for that! Another plank in a the platform…
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
1:40 pm
Gov Option Done Deal!
Yes. Lack of parental participation is a problem in low income areas. Part of that is the culture and part of that is the fact that many poorer parents are single parents and work two jobs, giving them little time or inclination to participate in their child’s education. That won’t be changed by lecturing the parents. Many can just not afford to get off work to attend their child’s PTA meetings.
But, that is one of many problems that exist in schools with a less than average performance ratings. Security for the children, particularly middle and high school is an issue as is the fact that (no offense meant to any urban-based teachers) the best and the brightest of our teachers often go for the bigger money, better benefits, higher achieving students and a safer environment for their own children, i.e. they go to the burbs.
There are exceptions to all of this. Central High School in Little Rock, the location of the very beginning of the modern Civil Rights Era is primarily a “Black School” and it is academically ranked nationally almost every single year.
We should spend as much as needed to closely study Central and other incredibly successful urban schools. There’s a reason why they are as successful as they are. And yes, there almost always seems to be a matter of some deep pockets somewhere that is financing the academic machine that it takes to produce those kinds of academic results, particularly when most schools in Central’s demographic performs so poorly.
Lack of funding has taken many music and art classes out of our schools and the result is what is now considered entertainment. Ask almost any teenager who Bach was and why he was important and they will look at you like you are from another planet. Churches were often another source of music education, but now, with the society becoming more and more secular, the kids are left in total and complete ignorance of anything except what is fed to them by people who claim to be part of their culture.
i.e. Don’t get me started. I was lucky enough to go to a fantastic school system in a completely impoverished area. My school was my fortress against the bad things around me. SummerSchool Playground was a great place to spend summers. I would hate to think of what I would have gotten into without it. Many of our schools suck and there is no excuse for that. It is destroying our culture and creating a society of non-thinking sheep that is more interested in Dancing With The Stars than talking with and reading to their children.
Bud Wiser
November 7th, 2009
1:43 pm
Many of you except for the #1 Idiot (obvious 94%er) are concerned about the same thing….why do this health care when the worst employment numbers in over a quarter century just came out?
Obowo is more concerned with accumulating governmental control over virtually everything, instead of being concerned about having enough citizens employed to pay for his trash.
Hell, the govt was supposed to have 120 Million H1N1 vaccinations ready by October, and came up with only 27 Million or so. If they cannot run even a simple vaccination program worth a damn, how does anyone with a BRAIN expect them to assume control of the whole bundle?
They don’t.
Only the idiots still sing Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm for the socialist.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:50 pm
THE main reason our school, servicing the most “at risk” population in the country, is the success that it is is that we were blessed with an adminstrator several years back who made it her “cause” to see to it that the language minority parents saw this as “their” school where their concerns would be addressed in the same manner and the same fashion as those of the language majority and “those people’s” concerns were the same ones, just expressed in a language other than English. They are just as eager, if not more so, to participate in the goings on at their school as any other responsible parents.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
1:54 pm
josef
I understand your point about the control by the Fed being non-existant in our schools. I tend to think that there needs to be nationally set standards, at least for the basics. People that live in Bumtruck, Iowa will not need the same skill set as people who are going to be living in Brooklyn. With that, I agree.
But like it or not, money really talks when educating children. If an author has a great line of text books, that produce great test scores, it will cost a fortune for that program. That is an advantage of many private schools. THey have the money to buy the great programs. Now, I’m sure you will say that this is not always the case, but in the majority of cases, it is.
We need a lot of money going to bad schools. We need security. We need better books and in some instances, better teachers and administrators. Again, always exceptions, but I am talking about the norm. As Gov Opt pointed out, there is a matter of parental participation. It ain’t going to fix itself. We need to study the problem and fix it. And in many cases, it takes money to study and fix anything.
Joseph, we are spending $100million a week in interest on our nation’s debt. Think of that money going to schools.
Yes, we would need a limited participation by the fed, BUT WE NEED THAT MONEY!! Sorry. Got a little crazy there. But you get my point.
josef nix
November 7th, 2009
1:54 pm
stepping out for a bit…duty calls in the voice of a grandbaby!
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
2:13 pm
josef
That’s fantastic that you had an inspired administrator. But the system failed the children that were students in the years before she showed up. We cannot afford to let the quality of our educational system depend on the inspiration of it’s employees.
josef, this is 9 years into the 21st century and our education system sucks and we are planning on spending $1.2 trillion on a health care program that will imprison any Americans who wish not to participate. We are setting up a government where poverty works really well for the government. Those guys will have a job forever, as long as their constituents need to depend on them.
I’m for having a country of wealthy, happy, educated, cultured people that has a government that protects them and gets the hell out of the way. And now everyone is saying that we need to take a step back and get used to a lower standard of living. F*CK THAT.
We’re smart. I am typing on a computer that could easily plot a course to any planet in our solar system. We throw away millions of computers every week. And we have schools that STILL do not teach basic computer courses, and if they do, it is in a lab with crappy computers running windows 98.
There is no excuse. It makes me sick that the media and our government has convinced so many people that they will take care of us and we just need to learn to get used to it.
As Howard Hughes said to the Congressional Oversight Committee: You work for me, I don’t work for you. Our government needs a long and extended bltch slapping.
Marsh
November 7th, 2009
2:48 pm
Government Health Care Rescues Protestors At Anti-Government Health Care Rally.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/06/rally-heart-attack/
I wonder why those teabaggers didn’t refuse the aid, since it was from the government…
bo
November 7th, 2009
2:55 pm
Foxylady, I think you have it backwords, it’s the losers that are looking for another handout. After demcare is in place for a few years, we will all be losers. The real question to ask is, if repubs are stupid for not voting for this, why are so many dems not voting for it. They were elected as dems but seem to think that they would lose their gravy train jobs if they side with Pelosi.
bob
November 7th, 2009
2:58 pm
Marsh, maybe because the teabaggers actually pay taxes and want a return, do you know what return means ? You wont get any in you commis Social Security account.
Linda
November 7th, 2009
3:07 pm
After all this discussion, I still don’t get it.
I understand why the Dem politicians want nationalized health insurance for everyone except themselves.
I understand why sick people with pre-existing conditions, poor people not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, illegal aliens & pregnant women who don’t want their babies want health insurance.
What I still don’t understand is why any American TAXPAYER that doesn’t have a pre-existing condition or any American who has children wants nationalized health care insurance, socialized medicine.
DoggoneGA
November 7th, 2009
3:41 pm
“nationalized health insurance”
since no one has proposed this, and this is NOT what is being voted on…what is there to discuss? None of the proposed bills is for “nationalized health care insurance, socialized medicine”
Why don’t you try educating yourself about what IS in the bills and then get back to us with any complaints you have about the REALITY of the bills…not something someone made up.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
3:47 pm
Because, Linda, too many people are dying who could be saved if insurance companies did not run medicine to state it briefly.
Insurance companies have dropped 46000 people according to a Havard study who died.
And if you are femaile with breasts Linda, insurance companies are refusing to fund Herceptin and its progency which are state of the art biologicals to treat breast cancer resulting in women becoming bankrtupt and then dying painful deaths because they’re untreated.
Glad to educate. The House is going to pass Health Care reform tonight.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
3:53 pm
Or would it be a female with breasts? The House Bill will still do little to nothing to cover women’s breast cancer treatment with biologicals that are state of the art. Herceptin and Avastin cost over $300,000 a year. How many of you have that change in your bank accounts to cover it. That’s about what I thought.
The same is true for Enbrel that can successfully retreat painful refractory RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis) that is 3:1 in women.
There will be no generics for these drugs thanks to hookers for pharmaceutical industries for 12 years. Generics would of course, greatly reduce the costs that are impossible for most families and most women.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 7th, 2009
3:54 pm
If you have specific questions Linda, and I see them, I’ll knock them out of the park. What rock have you been under. We’re going to have competition for insurance companies who have abused patients and physicians alike for years.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
4:03 pm
DoggoneGA
**“nationalized health insurance” since no one has proposed this, and this is NOT what is being voted on…**
You may buy into the semantics that is pushed on all of us, but please don’t expect others to do the same. The public option is a system that is an insurance and it will be a governmental program. What about that is NOT nationalized health insurance.
And then you HAD to throw in the little dig about educating herself when it is obvious who needs the education.
Gov Option Done:
From the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/03/nyregion/l-medicare-treatment-and-conscience-491987.html
“An elderly man suffering from widespread colon cancer was recently admitted to the hospital with severe abdominal pain, fever and shortness of breath. The admitting physician was told by a Medicare reviewer that the patient did not really need hospitalization. Less than two months later, the patient was dead.
Recently, an off-site reviewer refused permission for a pacemaker for an elderly patient he had never met or examined. The reviewer’s refusal was based on a checklist of Medicare guidelines and on information about the patient that he had received over the telephone. His refusal ultimately carried more weight than the combined opinions of an experienced chest surgeon and two cardiologists who were there treating the patient.”
Glad to educate about the ills of a government system.
If you are going to pretend to be a doctor, at least try to tell the whole story. What’s your opinion of the rate of refusal by the already bankrupt medicare system.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
4:13 pm
Gov. Option Done
A device that has been used for years as a treatment for epilepsy, but medicare refuses to include it in it’s coverage:
From Earthtimes:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/59666.html
“Cyberonics Inc.’s shares fell by nearly as much as 7% as a result of Medicare’s refusal to include its VNS Therapy device as part of insurance covered therapy for treatment-resistant depression.
The Houston-based company had been advocating expanded coverage for the device that has already been approved of for and has long been used in the treatment of epilepsy. Its sales, however, have not been dramatic in the treatment of depression as most health plans are unwilling to cover it.”
I’ll be glad to educate anytime. I’m always ready to knock it out of the park. No thanks is necessary.
Nothing Is Free
November 7th, 2009
4:16 pm
Gov. Option Done
MedIcare’s treatment of an HIV provider
From Nemechek Health Renewal
http://www.healthrenewal.org/medicare/
Hello, my name in Patrick Nemechek, D.O. and I’m a board-certified specialist in Internal Medicine located in Kansas City, Missouri. I have specialized in the treatment of persons infected with HIV for approximately 15 years. The following is a brief but thorough review of my harassment by Medicare.
I’ve have been the target of 2 post-payment audits by Medicare in the last 5 years for the use of immune globulin (antibody transfusions) for an antibody deficiency state known as hypogammaglobulinemia that occurs in my patients with HIV.
ROLLERGIRL
November 7th, 2009
4:19 pm
Where in the constitution does it say YOUR needs become MY duties..to hell with that collectivist idea.