In NY’s 23rd, conservatives bag a GOP heretic in Scozzafava
Well, the conservatives went hunting for a Republican heretic in upstate New York, and it looks as though they’ve bagged one. This will be the occasion for a lot of celebration on the GOP right, but regardless of what happens Tuesday, I don’t think it bodes well for the GOP nationally.
No party gets bigger by getting smaller.
From the Watertown Daily News:
Dede Scozzafava, the Republican and Independence parties candidate, announced Saturday that she is suspending her campaign for the 23rd Congressional District and releasing all her supporters.
The state Assemblywoman has not thrown her support to either Doug Hoffman, the Conservative Party candidate, or Bill Owens, the Democratic candidate.
“Today, I again seek to act for the good of our community,” Ms. Scozzafava wrote in a letter to friends and supporters. “It is increasingly clear that pressure is mounting on many of my supporters to shift their support. Consequently, I hereby release those individuals who have endorsed and supported my campaign to transfer their support as they see fit to do so. I am and have always been a proud Republican. It is my hope that with my actions today, my party will emerge stronger and our district and our nation can take an important step towards restoring the enduring strength and economic prosperity that has defined us for generations.”
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490 comments Add your comment
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
4:50 pm
Ms. Dusty
The gun is locked away. I wouldn’t hurt him. Since I’m a “liberal”, I must show compassion and let him live.
I guess you can rack it up to “Baby Brother Syndrome”. I do not like people to think or speak for me or to think that they do so. Glad church was nice.
As for State Farm, I had them years ago. They decided to quit writing policies along the Gulf Coast after Katrina, and stopped writing policies in California the same year. I then decided to stop sending them money based upon their business decisions. They’re a good company, but in good conscience, I couldn’t keep that policy knowing that people who really needed it couldn’t get it.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
4:53 pm
Nowhere is it written that you have to follow some political line of thought.
It’s called morality, geez, this is not so hard to understand.
Why no response to the 1960’s/ liberalism/ decline of America thingie?
~~~~~
And almost as if on cue, Scuzzafreaka, a compromise choice by a compromised Republican party, endorses the democrat.
It really is comical.
Peggy Noonan nailed it this week, we are governed by children.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
4:57 pm
DUSTY
ABM on State Farm beat me to it. We cancelled out State Farm policies after Katrina in protest.
RW-(the original)
November 1st, 2009
4:57 pm
So all them conventional wisdom Giants pickers done kissed their money buh buh.
Jimmy the Quack,
If you want to be taken seriously you need to make your predictions while the games are still in the future.
Dusty
November 1st, 2009
4:57 pm
ABM, I hope I did not sound like I was belittling your posts..I had not read your 4:12 when I posted mine. Your philosophy makes good sense to me. May we all stay free and may we care enough to preserve it. You said that much better than any attempts I can make.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:06 pm
Whiner
Contrary to conservative opinion, morality is not political.
josef
That is indeed an area where we would seem to differ. The reason I took the job was because of illegal immigration. I understand your vocation and what you put into it. You also understand what I do and what I put into it. We both know the system is broken and in desperate need of repair. I’m a hard-liner when it comes to immigration, in that, if it’s illegal, then it’s illegal no matter what. That’s what laws are for. But I’m not completely blind to the fact that there are those who are here, and something needs to be done. That’s the moral dilemma we face, but it will take a political decision to remedy it.
We differ, but we also respect each other’s position. That’s more of what we need to put this country on the right path.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:08 pm
Dusty
I didn’t get that feeling from your post at all. As much as we are different, we are so much alike. That’s also why I enjoy reading your posts. Guess it’s the southerner in me.
Normal
November 1st, 2009
5:10 pm
AHHH, politics, schmalitics, we have all week to bash each other’s philosophies…how about a little candy instead…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6258490994051972937#
Bruno
November 1st, 2009
5:12 pm
“If you want to be taken seriously you need to make your predictions while the games are still in the future.”
Houston came through like a champ despite their early missteps. That was my only pick this am–I chickened out at the last minute on Chicago. For the pm, I’m going with San Diego as RW suggested. Oakland is terrible, especially on the road.
Don’t forget, RW, GODD is predicting New Orleans in a wipeout over Atlanta. On paper, it would look that way, although this particular rivalry has produced some close games and outright upsets over the years.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
5:13 pm
ABM- I’m trying as hard as I can to think of one liberal position that is also moral and I am not having any luck, so perhaps you do have a point.
Other than that, you are waffling dude.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
5:23 pm
ABM–
I was with a group of my fellow bleeding hearts one evening and, given my job, they were all just certain that I was in their camp all the way around. I was asked my opinion on “what we should do.” I answered, honestly, that i thought we should bring the troops home and post a soldier every 15 yards along the frontier and shut it down post haste. How could I be so “cold.” They didn’t seem to want to hear my “…and then…” which was to regularize the status of those already here, working and contributing to the American dream…
The Unmentionable has a lot of fun along the same line. He starts out with, “round ‘em all up and ship ‘em back where they came from and that includes the white folks and black folks, too…far as I’m concerned the whole lot of ya are illegals..” And, no, I don’t THINK he really means it, but he does say he’s got me a first class ticket reserved…
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
5:28 pm
Whiner
“ABM- I’m trying as hard as I can to think of one liberal position that is also moral and I am not having any luck, so perhaps you do have a point.”
Uh, how about “government of the people, by the people and for the people..”
We probably could include the right of free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, a free press…
Midori
November 1st, 2009
5:28 pm
“so let it be written, so let it be done”
er, ABM — Wasn’t that Yul Brenner (Ramses)?
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:31 pm
Whiner
It’s absurd to try to legislate morals in a secular country. If this country were a theocracy, you would have a point. What you consider waffling, I consider freedom. It’s all in perspective.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
5:34 pm
Uh, how about “government of the people, by the people and for the people..”
We probably could include the right of free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, a free press…
Nice freaking try yosef, adopt the founding fathers principled beliefs against the tyranny of government, even as your president conducts the most tyrannical administration in history.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:34 pm
Midori
I think it was Charleston. I’m going to have to watch it now.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
5:43 pm
Whiner–
Well, he is MY president just the same as he is YOURS and this is by no means “the most tyrannical administration” in history. Old Abe’s and Ole Hickory’s put this one in the shade. And, for the love of G-d, since when do I have to agree with everything Ima Gonna Nero does (or in my case, does NOT do) just because I call myself a liberal? It’s my liberal views that have me set against so much of what’s coming out (or NOT coming out) of 1600…
Well, the Russians are coming so I’ll check back in later…
Normal
November 1st, 2009
5:43 pm
Midori is right…From the movie Moses…but let it go and…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wYq_yC5BMg&feature=related
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
5:43 pm
Look y’all, we have a clear starting point for liberalism in American history and it happens to coincide with the decline of our great nation.
We also have a clear starting point for a government that was founded on the tenets of a Christian God and was against the power of government, at that is also known as Conservatism.
I win.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:49 pm
Whiner
If conservatism is so against the power of government, why do they continually seek political office?
Midori
November 1st, 2009
5:50 pm
Normal,
the movie title is “The 10 Commandments”
One of my favorites.
Packed with stars – Brenner, Heston, Edward G. Robinson, Vincent Price, Anne Baxter, Yvonne DeCarlo — and directed by Cecil DeMille.
Normal
November 1st, 2009
5:53 pm
Whiner, our government was founded on the principle of religious freedom. You always seem to forget that, why? Also the decline of our nation wasn’t liberalism starting in the ’60s anymore that it was the resurgence of religion in the ’60s. It’s because that the powers are too aligned with corporations that do not have our nations best interest at heart.
Religions are like street gangs. they can’t get along with anyone but their own kind.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
5:54 pm
Well, he is MY president just the same as he is YOURS and this is by no means “the most tyrannical administration” in history. Old Abe’s and Ole Hickory’s put this one in the shade.
How much more bent can someone’s thinking be?
Abraham Lincoln saved this nation and freed the slaves, Obozo hates it and is trying to destroy it.
Can you not hear the things he says or does?
Normal
November 1st, 2009
5:54 pm
Midori, you are correct. Ol’ Charleston played in a lot of them, didn’t he?
Normal
November 1st, 2009
5:56 pm
Obozo hates it and is trying to destroy it.
There is your sign.
Proof, please, and I don’t mean talking points.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
5:59 pm
“Abraham Lincoln saved this nation and freed the slaves”
Tee hee hee, that’s so cute. Lincoln didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about slaves. He only wanted to preserve the country. The only reason the Emancipation Proclamation was given was to keep England and France from siding with the Confederacy since they had just taken anti-slavery positions themselves.
Dusty
November 1st, 2009
6:01 pm
ABM & josef,
Ah..the many faces of immigration, the legal & illegal, the good & the bad, the taking and the giving, the morality and the immorality of the treatment of such persons.
Our history has shown us the great contributions of immigrants. They did the dirty work and then moved up while the next generation of immigrants took over the dirty work. They were hardworking, fine citizens who appreciated the USA.
Then came a time when it seemed the whole world wanted to be in the USA and immigration laws were made with quotas. Those laws are still in place for good reason.. I think they should be upheld.
My son-in-law is a legal immigrant from Colombia, SA. He is as fine as they come and we feel most fortunate to have him in our family. He has spent thousands (and he’s not rich) on immigration lawyers to be following everything the law requires. It is a lengthy process that takes years. But he is doing it legally because he does not believe in doing it any other way.
Now we have millions who are slipping into our country illegally. Most of them are hard working men who work to support poverty strciken families at home. Some are criminals. We commend hard workers and those who support their families. But I cannot say that they have any “right” to be here. Where do we stop when we ignore certain laws and enforce others? Where is justice?
josef, the saddest aspect of all are the innocent children. I honestly believe that no one wants to harm the children. Would Soloman say “the sins of the fathers so therefore..go.” or what?
When I worked in southern Arizona in the Sonoran Desert with the Papago, a dehydrated semiconscious man was brought into the hospital. He lived. But several hundred others died in the desert duing the summer. They try so hard and sometimes it is deadly. They seem willing to take the chance. Just another observation.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:01 pm
Lambeau getting it’s Green Bay Farvred.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
6:03 pm
Normal —
ABM — you are correct. Lincoln’s one AND ONLY concern was the preservation of the Union. To h*ll with the slaves.
As a matter of fact, he looked upon blacks as being inferior and he wanted to deport them all to Liberia.
In reality, The Emancipation Proclamation did not free a single slave. It was invalid in the South, and the slaves in the North were already free. And they were serving in the Union Army for little or no pay.
Normal
November 1st, 2009
6:04 pm
See y’all in the AM, gotta do supper now. Have a wonderful night…and remember Whiner, all you need is love. Ta ta
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:07 pm
Dusty
I had a resident with a green card boast to me how she and her friends came here illegally. They married US citizens and got legal residence. I almost blew a fuse. That’s one of the loopholes that I would love to close. When people say illegals, most assume Mexican. I have yet to send a Mexican back home, but I regularly turn Brazilians, Israelis, and Koreans around. Most enter on valid visas and just never leave.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:09 pm
Midori
It’s amazing how “history” is taught sometimes, huh.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
6:19 pm
If conservatism is so against the power of government, why do they continually seek political office?
To keep liberals out of it?
~~~~~
Whiner, our government was founded on the principle of religious freedom. You always seem to forget that, why?
Our nation was discovered by Christians seeking to escape religious persecution.
It was founded by men who spoke of a Christian God and left us voluminous evidence of their beliefs, none of which can be found at MyDD, abnormal, just sayin….
~~~~~
Proof, please, and I don’t mean talking points.
>>>>On several occasions, Obama attacked American conduct in simplistic caricatures a European diplomat might employ or applaud. He accused America of acing “unilaterally, without regard for the interests of others” — a slander against every American ally who has made sacrifices in Iraq and Afghanistan. He argued that, “America has too often been selective in its promotion of democracy” — which is hardly a challenge for the Obama administration, which has yet to make a priority of promoting democracy or human rights anywhere in the world.<<<<
~~~~~
Lincoln didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about slaves.
>>>>During the American Civil War, Lincoln used the war powers of the presidency to issue the Emancipation Proclamation, which declared “all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free”<<<<
geez, man.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:20 pm
It’s too bad the Bush DOJ turned Immigration court into a farce. Bozoheads are appointed as plum jobs who have no experience whatsoever in immigration litigation prior to their appointment and haven’t a clue what they’re doing.
There is no uniformity in decisions at all among the different districts. You are much more likely to be returned by a bozohead immigration judge in Atlanta than you are in Miami.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:21 pm
There is no confirmatin process whatsoever as to Immigration judges–you can be cleaning floors at McDonald’s one day and appointed an Immigration judge the next. Most of them have no litigation experience whatsoever.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:25 pm
“To keep liberals out of it?”
Maybe you should change your name to I’m Lame?
Does the term seccession ring a bell? Dude, the South was not affected by the EP because they were not part of the United States at the time. You can cut and paste any part of the EP, but you’ll still be wrong. Nice try though.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:28 pm
John Bonehead Boehner doesn’t agree with H1N1 vaccination for Gitmo detainees, many of whom have done NOTHING.
Unfortunately a whole line of Supreme Court cases overrule Boehner who wouldn’t know caselaw if it bit him in the ass.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:34 pm
Whiner
Since you’re not doing too good in history, Here’s another subject for you to rant about.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_white_house_visitors
“WASHINGTON – Celebrities George Clooney and Oprah Winfrey and prominent lobbyists, corporate executives and Democratic fundraisers were among the first to score visits with President Barack Obama, his wife Michelle or top aides at the White House, newly released records show.”
Dusty
November 1st, 2009
6:35 pm
Gov Option,
My son-in-law has never mentioned any feeling that judges showed partiality. They are BUSY and don’t waste any time which makes them sometimes curt and right to the point.
As to the qualifications of immigration judges,. I doubt that you are correct in your implications. Everythng in this world is not rotten as you usually suggest. Some judges MAY be better than others but that does not make all of them incompetent.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
6:35 pm
Dude, the South was not affected by the EP because they were not part of the United States at the time.
Um, when the South once again became a part of the Union, uh, what happened to the slaves?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
6:40 pm
Of course democrats don’t hate America, I mean really, look at tonite’s Fun and Games with US History lesson, brought to you DUmb Underground, maybe we freed the slaves but we didn’t want to!
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:41 pm
The slaves were subjected to Jim Crow laws. Legally they were freed of slavery, but not the systems that held it in place. Try as you might, Lincoln did not care about slaves. That’s why he waffled on allowing blacks to enlist and serve.
Normal
November 1st, 2009
6:43 pm
Y’all, be careful. Whiner’s mind is like a bear trap…once it closes, ain’t nothing gonna get it open again…just sayin’
Now I really gotta go, the wife is back from shopping. OY
Dusty
November 1st, 2009
6:44 pm
ABM,.
My son-in-law acts as an interpreter for many injured workers, construction mostly. Most of them are either Mexican or Central American. His work is only on health matters. These patients are the ones who probably ride on the buses to Mexico. I imagine that you see the more educated people who , like you said, “forgot” and overstayed their visas. They would be flying of course.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:47 pm
Dusty–
As usual you are way out of your depth and don’t know what you’re talking about. You imply your son in law is some kind of lawyer. Hip Hooray. I specifically was talking about federal immigration judges who are appointed by DOJ as plum appointments that require no prior litigation experience as an immigration judge and my statement about differences in outcome in Atlanta and Miami comes directly from extensive law reviews statistically comparing areas of the country. An immigrant is much more likely to be granted asylum in Miami, and often the “judges” are so badly experienced because they are political appointees they are schooled by the immigration lawyers who have been litigating in those particular courts for years and have deep experience where the vast majority of political appointees (appointment made by DOJ in immigration courts with no confirmation process in place).
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
6:48 pm
Obama has tended to define all opposition, particularly on health care, as resulting from fear, cowardice and selfishness — instead of admitting genuine disagreement. At a recent fundraiser, he mocked Republicans as robots who “do what they’re told.” He has engaged in consistent, classless, self-excusing criticism of his predecessor. Other presidents have been known for a war on totalitarianism or a war on terror. Obama is known for a war on Fox News.-RCP
Just sayin….
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:49 pm
“Of course democrats don’t hate America”
The first time you’ve ever spoken the complete truth about your opposition party. I applaud you, Whiner. See, your fingers didn’t fall off from typing that.
What you think is hate for country is merely correcting misrepresentations of history. Read Lincoln’s writings and see what his opinion was. All politicians are alike no matter what party. Maybe that’s why conservatives have knowledge envy of liberals. Instead of just eating up what’s espoused, liberals actually research for themselves to find the truth.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
6:53 pm
Dusty
Valid observation. I only go by what I see. If I were working in Laredo or Nogales, my view would definitely be different. How long were you in the Sonoran? I’ve heard that’s dangerous ground there health wise.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:54 pm
Not to mention that when DOJ lawyers oppose defense lawyers for immigrants, the judge owes their job to the DOJ. That’s hardly the context for impartiality, and its bad enough that the majority of federal judges get their after working for DOJ and never loose their “I’d eat my mother to prosecute” agenda.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
6:57 pm
Lincoln wrote to Joshua Speed in 1855: How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that “all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes.” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be take pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic].[4]
Lincoln stated that Negroes had the rights to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the first of the Lincoln-Douglas debates.[13]. Lincoln said he was against Negro suffrage in his speech in Columbus, Ohio on September 16, 1859.[8]:
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
6:57 pm
As long as Congress lacks the balles to tackle and fix Immigration law, there will be kvetching about a flawed system. And that length of time could be the rest of yourlife.
Some immigrants wait a full 15 years as the screwed up backlogged process plays out and it ain’t changing.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:03 pm
Andy,
the 13th Amendment ended slavery in the United States.
That’s what happened to slaves once the South reentered the Union.
And that was two years after the EP.
You don’t read much, do you?
You’re always shooting your mouth off about things you know very little about.
One certainly doesn’t have to go Underground OR Above Ground to see that.
stands for decibels
November 1st, 2009
7:08 pm
Funny, chatting with Mrs. Decibels and mentioning the weird turn of events in NYs 23rd, she asked “So what does Nate from Five twenty-whatever think?”
Funny because I hadn’t thought to have a look at what everyone’s favorite (or at least geekiest) political prognosticator might have to say about this.
I’ll spare you reading the long post if you don’t feel like it–gist of it is, with so little time and so little decent polling to work with you can’t really say, it could be a double-digit victory either way and Nate wouldn’t be surprised. However, this stuck out…
The best-case scenario for the Democrats would seem to be a very narrow Owens win, which would leave conservatives feeling plenty empowered (and with plenty of people — notably Scozzafava — to blame) but would still give Democrats the seat in the Congress and leave them feeling less worried about the upside potential of conservative populism.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
7:12 pm
The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially abolished and continues to prohibit slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was adopted on December 6, 1865, and was then declared in a proclamation of Secretary of State William H. Seward on December 18.
President Abraham Lincoln and others were concerned that the Emancipation Proclamation would be seen as a temporary war measure and so, besides freeing slaves in those states where slavery was still legal, they supported the amendment as a means to guarantee the permanent abolition of slavery.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:12 pm
American History 101
The Emancipation Proclamation was precisely as ABM put it, it specifically DID NOT free the slaves of those states which were not in rebellion.
Slavery was abolished by the 13th Amendment, passed after Lincoln had met his M*ker and his eternal judgment free of our latter day wishful thinking.
As for why I consider him a tyrant: he claimed there was a “higher law than the constitution” as his rationale for the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, imprisonment without charges of his political opponents, the censorship of the press, censorship of the mail, limitations on freedom of assembly. His administration presided over the worst outbreaks of anti-semitism under the auspices of the institutions of the federal government, the beginning of the government sanctioned blood genocide of the Western Indians, war waged against civilians, the destruction of property with no military objective, the incarceration of non combattant women, children and the elderly in open air concentration camps with no provisions for food, clothing and shelter, the pow camps in which the conditions were such that several had death rates from disease, starvation and random acts of violence were higher than Andersonville…
That only scratches the surface…we won’t even go near the happy horsesh*t myth of “Reconstruction.”
Oh, yes, and Jim Crow? Sanctioned by the federal supreme court in Plessy v Ferguson in which the ONLY dissenting vote was that of Justice Harlan, the lone Southerner on the court and himself born into a slave owning family…read it, it’s quite enlightening on the vogue hypocracy of the post C*vil W*r “liberators.”
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:14 pm
The Thirteenth Amendment completed the abolition of slavery, which had begun with the Emancipation Proclamation issued by President Abraham Lincoln in 1863.[3] — which as I stated, did NOT free a single slave.
The Thirteenth Amendment was followed by the Fourteenth Amendment (civil rights in the states), in 1868, and Fifteenth Amendment (which banned racial restrictions on voting), in 1870.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
7:21 pm
Nuh uh, josef.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:23 pm
When the Know Nothings were in power–the Republican Party is the successor to the Know Nothings!
Taxpayer
November 1st, 2009
7:24 pm
Wow. It looks as though there were quite a few drum beats shared on this fine day.
And, a beautiful voice for the accompaniment.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:24 pm
ABM–
Of course, I’m just a Southern-white male-neo(?)-C*nfderate, what would I know?
DoggoneGA
November 1st, 2009
7:25 pm
“It was invalid in the South, and the slaves in the North were already free”
That can’t be right. There were actually 2 proclamations and one of them freed the slaves in any “Confederate State” that did not come back to Union control by a certain date…and the other actually named the states.
If memory serves me correctly, it’s the other way around…it freed the slaves in any state NOT on the “Union side” and had no effect an any states fighting for the union that still had legal slavery.
In fact, that’s why we now have the state of West Virginia…because those counties of Virginia were in the process of “seceding” from the state of Virginia. The EP also did not apply to any of the border states that were slave holding, but did not secede.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:26 pm
Josef,
the present-day Republicant’s love to quote Lincoln, and insist on a kinship with him.
Truth is, the present day Republican’t party is NOTHING reminiscent of the pre civil war GOP.
The present is full of racist and ignorant idiots (Hi, Andy) and vile scum who used to be “Dixiecrats”.
The Dixiecrats left the Democratic Party and fled to the GOP after Civil Rights Legislation was passed in the 1960’s (Strom Thurmond, Jessie Helms, etc.)
the racists welcomed them with open arms.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:32 pm
A little side light on the EP and why it was issued when it was: Eugenia Yates Levy Phillips, wife of anti-secessionist former Congressman Philip Phillips, had been taken POW under the infamous “Women’s Order” by the anti-Semite Benjamin Butler and incarcerated under the most puniative conditions on Ship Island, “the Devil’s Island of the North,” and the incident had caused an international row with Emperor Napolean and Queen Victoria (among others) lodging protest and threatening to break relations with the Washington government over the Union’s treatment of “women, Jews, Catholics and foreign nationals.” She was released in September 1862 at the time the EP was drafted and sent to London, Paris, Berlin and Amsterdam. It was not released in the United States until January, during which time it had had its effect on the foreign policies of the European powers…see the memoirs of Reverdy Johnson for this…
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:34 pm
from PBS:
The Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in the United States. Rather, it declared free only those slaves living in states not under Union control. William Seward, Lincoln’s secretary of state, commented, “We show our symapthy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free.” Lincoln was fully aware of the irony, but he did not want to antagonize the slave states loyal to the Union by setting their slaves free.
The proclamation allowed black soldiers to fight for the Union — soldiers that were desperately needed. It also tied the issue of slavery directly to the war.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
7:35 pm
Doggone
Think of it this way. Obama makes a proclamation that all Muslim are free to not wear headcovers. It would work for the US, but in Saudi Arabia it wouldn’t hold water. The CSA wasn’t part of the US during that time. Lincoln could have proclaimed until his face turned blue, but his words had no validity of law in the CSA.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
7:36 pm
You have to be an absolute kook to say the Civil War didn’t free the slaves and sure enough, make note of the commenters doing just that.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:37 pm
Midori–
With all due respect, I’d say Village Idiot Bush’s legacy reads pretty much like Lincoln’s, suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, censorship of the mails, etc…
Doggone–thanks for the clarification I meant to make that point as well, but my jerking knee got in the way! BTW–did you get my post to you at roughly 9 p.m. above?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
Slavery was the principal issue leading to the American Civil War. After the Union prevailed in the war, slavery was abolished throughout the United States with the adoption of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.[9]
In the presidential election of 1860, the Republican Party, led by Abraham Lincoln, had campaigned against the expansion of slavery beyond the states in which it already existed. The Republican victory in that election resulted in seven Southern states declaring their secession from the Union even before Lincoln took office on March 4, 1861.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
Whiner
Nope, Civil War didn’t free the slaves. The 13th Amendment did that. Slavery wasn’t even an issue of the War. The war was basically fought over economics and States rights.
Mrs. Godzilla
November 1st, 2009
7:42 pm
Halloween Lesson # 27
1/2 a cheese medium pizza and 10 miniature candy bars can give the mature female a tummy ache.
Regarding the topic: It’s a good thing.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:43 pm
I agree with you Josef.
To go one step further, FDR’s detention of the Japanese during WW2 was disgusting and reprehensible as well.
IMHO.
DoggoneGA
November 1st, 2009
7:43 pm
“The CSA wasn’t part of the US during that time. Lincoln could have proclaimed until his face turned blue, but his words had no validity of law in the CSA”
That would ONLY be the case if you agreed that the “CSA” states were NOT part of the union. I don’t think Lincoln would have agreed with THAT. The whole point of the Civil War was to PRESERVE the union and prevent it from being split.
Plus, the EP’s greatest value was not so much that it freed the slaves, but that it crippled the Southern cause by causing chaos due to the reactions of a lot of slaves to it. If the South had been strong enough, at the time, to maintain their slave holding systems it would only have had a limited effect. It was effective because the South was not strong enough to negate it.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
7:44 pm
i r O diM- Perhaps you should make an attempt to comprehend what you posted at 6:34, or 7:34 bookman time.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:49 pm
Marie,
no thanks.
I comprehend just fine.
Perhaps the time has come to take your wig off?
Things are just not getting thru.
Too much cake, perhaps?
Hey — I did some reading on you!! You were a Hapsburg!!!
Inbreeding really did your family in. In more ways than one.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
7:50 pm
Of course the end of slavery was made possible by the war, but it was seen more as a punishment for the rebels than as a great act of moral imperitive. If it had been the latter, there would have been some provision for what to do with them once freed. The African American came out of that with freedom on a piece of paper (victory accomplished, good job!) and little else, their “liberators” turning them landless, penniless over to not even the mercies of their former masters, but to the mercies of their landless, penniless poor white neighbors to have to compete for the ashes and embers of a burnt to the ground wasteland.
Midori–just as a sidelight here, the first African American units to serve in a North American armed force were the Corps d’Afrique and Native Guards of New Orleans who were mustered into the C*nfededrate Army with full pay and commanded by African American officers. Judah Benjamin in 1861 proposed freeing those slaves and their families who would fight for the CSA. He got no where with it officially, but two generals, Patrick Cleburn and Nathan Bedford Forrest followed his lead. Forrest freed 44 of his and they rode with him til the end, among them was Jerry Forrest whom he credited with being the strategist brains behind his still studied guerrilla tactics…history is full of ironies…later Forrest would take the lead in Memphis in standing against the disenfranchisement (Memphis’ blacks were never disenfranchised) of the freedman and called for the admission of blacks to the medical and law schools…
Taxpayer
November 1st, 2009
7:50 pm
Mrs. G.,
My weakness is for the candy corn.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:54 pm
Ironic, isn’t it Josef?
The confederates paid them, but the union blacks pretty much had to beg for pay equality from their “emancipators”…..
Taxpayer
November 1st, 2009
7:57 pm
Midori,
Every time I hear someone bring up the topic of in-breeding, I’m reminded of this family.
Midori
November 1st, 2009
7:59 pm
Taxxie,
ugghhhhh!!
however, that was one of my fav episodes
btw – Minnesota is losing control of this game.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:00 pm
Slavery was not a cause of the war. It was a defining element, to be sure, but, in my opinion based on my readings of history, the Southern Cause was well within keeping with the nationalist movements of the rest of Western Civilization and was phrased as such. By 1860 the rift was so wide that the South no longer considered itself a part of the North American empire, but a nation unto itself due to many factors unique and peculiar to its historical development of which slavery was an element. Much of the South has NO English colonial tradition and great parts came to the ideals of democratic self government through the French and Mexican/Texas revolutions.
Angry Black Man
November 1st, 2009
8:01 pm
Doggone
I’d have to disagree with the recognization of the CSA. The Cotton economy was strong enough that England and France were poised to assist the Confederates on their side of the war. The issue of slavery is what made it difficult for them to join in.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
8:03 pm
Obama has been to the right of Bush when it comes to suspending habeas and his abusive filings in the Ninth circuit are even much worse than Bush DOJ’’s.
They have repeatedly ignored orders of Ninth Circuit and district court judges as to habeas.
Obama’s State Secrets stances have been considerably more abusive than Bush’s oif that’s possible as seen in the Jeppsen case and the Shubert case:
http://www.eff.org/cases/shubert-v-bush
http://www.justice.gov/ag/testimony/2009/ag-testimony-091030.html
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:12 pm
ABM
I read an interesting study on the failure of King Cotton diplomacy. It seems that France, England and Prussia had warehoused a considerable amount and by this time the Egyptian and Indian sources were being exploited. However, crop failures in 1859, 1860 and 1861 had forced them to import wheat from the United States and wheat was a Northern agricultural product and the Washington government used this as leverage…
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:15 pm
Just a little sidelight here on CSA diplomacy–the closest it came to such recognition was from the Vatican and the Ottoman Empire, both through the efforts of the Sephardic envoy de Leon…so much for the myth that the CSA was a WASP thing…
DoggoneGA
November 1st, 2009
8:16 pm
“Cotton economy was strong enough ”
The economy, yes…but not the social structures needed to maintain the economic systems that were producing the cotton. Most of the able-bodied men were, after all, engaged in a war. Lincoln issued the EPs in order to create the chaos that did ensue once news of the EP filtered through the South. There just were not enough able-bodied men available throughout the South to maintain the social and jucicial structures needed to keep the slaves in their state of slavery.
Taxpayer
November 1st, 2009
8:23 pm
Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity
“Patriotism” is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by “patriotism” I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one‘s own nation, which is the concern with the nation‘s spiritual as much as with its material welfare-never with its power over other nations.
Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one‘s country which is not part of one‘s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship – Fromm
Dang socialist! What does he know. (<- sarcasm)
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:26 pm
Doggone–
Begging to differ, but chaos did not ensue on word of the EP, for two reasons, one, the African Southerner did not trust it given their experiences under occupation (impressment into the Union forces as laborers and cannon fodder) and, while it’s hard for many to understand, a sincere loyalty to their land of birth and they, as much as their non slave owning free neighbors, feeling that their homes were invaded and their families threatened. Sherman and his lot burned and looted the slave cabin right along with the big house…
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:29 pm
Taxpayer–
Rather fond of Fromm myself…and who was it who said “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel…?”
Nevertheless love of one’s native land is a virtue which, unfortunately, falls victim too readily to political charlatans…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
8:30 pm
Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, issued in 1863 after the costly Union victory at Antietam, freed all enslaved persons within the Confederacy. More significantly, it changed the goal of war to one not only to preserve the Union but also to end slavery.-PBS
There were no slaves in the North, morons.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Ate Up With Envy mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
November 1st, 2009
8:32 pm
It took a Civil War to end immoral slavery. Will it take a Civil War to end immoral health care?-Daily Kooks
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
8:35 pm
Powerful story on 60 minutes about some ABM could not stop.
Japanes Mob Boss Allowed In to US; Gets Liver Transplant in 6 weeks; buys it for a million bucks UCLA won’t talk and FBI suckered
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/09/AR2008050902544.html
RW-(the original)
November 1st, 2009
8:37 pm
Dammeet! Chadly MQ chimes in that Minnesota has run away with the game and just like clockwork Green Bay starts a great comeback. I couldn’t figure out what suddenly went wrong until I got back here and read that 6:59 EST post—7:59BST.
Would you two pick one thing to be wrong about and quit careening back and forth?
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
8:37 pm
3 other yakuza were allowed in to the US and 4 Japanese mob members bought their way in and got liver transplants. Every US agency has its price.
josef nix
November 1st, 2009
8:37 pm
No slaves in the North? If by North you mean Union, there were slaves in Delaware, Maryland, West Virginia, Kentucky and Missouri, all recognized as Union territory. Ulyssis S Grant owned two families…
ABM–
Will it take a Civ*l W*r to end immoral health care? Well, there is that SCV inspired plan to insure some 35,000,000 of us, eh?
DoggoneGA
November 1st, 2009
8:38 pm
“but chaos did not ensue on word of the EP, for two reasons”
Not widespread chaos, maybe, but “chaos” didn’t have to be widespread to disrupt the war effort…which was the main intent. Even a few days delay in the shipping of equipment and supplies would have been capable of disrupting a major battle effort..for instance. Enough of that kind of supply disruption would be a major factor in crippling an army. And the further from the main supply depots of the South, the easier it was for such supply disruptions to impact the South’s war efforts.
Also, and this may actually be more important, the effect on some of the Northern supports was strengthened.
The EPs may not have had a major effect on slavery at the time they were announced, they may not have had a major economic effect at the time either…but there were important to weakening the South and strengthening the North.
“Sherman and his lot burned and looted the slave cabin right along with the big house…”
I’m not an apologist for Sherman, but OF COURSE he did. The slavery system was very important to the war supply and food systems of the South, and were important to their economy. He did what he did to disrupt, to the greatest extent he could, both the supply systems and the economic systems of his enemy. He couldn’t do that without also disrupting the slavery system, and the slaves themselves.
@@
November 1st, 2009
8:39 pm
From Hank Paulson to Tim Geithner…
Guess What: Goldman Was Selling Risky CDOs While Shorting Housing
And so McClatchy drops this monster investigative piece on the bank’s secret bets against the housing market.
Be sure to check out the investigative piece at McClatchy.
Why in gawd’s name do all of the white house’s financial advisors hail from Goldman Sachs?
Campaign finance reform should be first priority in Washington.
Holey crap.
Our government is a sieve.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
8:39 pm
RW–
I’m not reading you on the Vikings GB game. Maybe you can help me with what you mean. Farvre had a great game and he had a much better team. GB is a good team and Rodgers is definitely a talent but they have a way to go.
Rodgers is taking a lot of hits as Aikman said. Favre had a lot of time to throw most of the time.
What’s your line on the Sain’ts game?
DoggoneGA
November 1st, 2009
8:40 pm
“There were no slaves in the North, morons.”
Somebody needs to go back to the history books.
Gov Option Done Deal!
November 1st, 2009
8:42 pm
McClatchy has been doing a great job the last few years.
@@
November 1st, 2009
8:42 pm
Oops! Sorry…I stepped right into the middle of the civil war.
Didn’t that one end in 1865?