Iran now rejecting nuclear deal
Iran is insisting on changes to a proposed deal regarding its nuclear fuel, and it’s pretty clear that those changes will be unacceptable to the rest of the world. “It’s a deal breaker,” Jacqueline Shire of the Institute for Science and International Security told ABC News. “It’s no dice if they want to do an installment plan.”
It’s possible that further discussion can convince Iran to accept the provisions it now seeks to change. But it’s far more likely that at the end of the process, no deal will be reached and the West will have to look to other alternatives.
Unfortunately, it’s also true that if Iran is sufficiently determined to acquire the bomb, nothing short of an outright invasion will prevent it from doing so. Every assessment I’ve seen says that an air assault on Iran’s nuclear infrastructure would at best delay its program, not end it. Furthermore, that assault itself would harden Iran’s conviction that it needs the bomb to discourage outside meddling.
There are no easy solutions to some problems. And to a few problems, there are no solutions at all, easy or otherwise.
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274 comments Add your comment
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:22 pm
NIF
Furious? What happened to transparency? Draining the swamp? Baby steps?!!?
Bosch
October 30th, 2009
2:23 pm
“Even while a couple of the wives want to murder the guy in his sleep”
I hate it when that happens.
Turd Ferguson
October 30th, 2009
2:23 pm
LOL…Obobo gives us toilet water to drink then states “hey…atleast its water…” What a bum!
Gov’t says stimulus saved or created 650,000 jobs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stimulus_jobs
Jimmy62
October 30th, 2009
2:24 pm
But we should be encouraged that thanks to Obama not taking any hard stance ever, Iran has had many extra months to develop their nukes.
Maybe now Obama will drop his naivete and try to get something concrete done.
md
October 30th, 2009
2:25 pm
“but I still feel a deep seated resentment for us “paying” them to remain a functioning country, while we scream about the costs of health care, etc., in our own country. ”
And what would be our cost if we didn’t prop up the only democracy in the ME? Sometimes, one must look at the cost picture from a different angle. What would the ME look like without Isreal and would it be in our best interests? No way to tell, but highly doubtful. With no friends in that part of the world, would there be other costs associated – highly probable.
Turd Ferguson
October 30th, 2009
2:26 pm
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
2:21 pm
Congress is furious that this report leaked out:
HA…Im sure Maxine Commie Waters is furious. Would love to see that beeeatch go down HARD!
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
2:27 pm
NIF,
Child, you up from your nap yet?
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
2:28 pm
DebbieDoRight
Fantastic. I’m glad you took the time.
After we talked last night, I thought that you might have been talking about a contraption called a “sip & puff” which is a controlling mechanism for a high quad, which can control everything from running their wheel chair to typing on a computer. But you had said that it came out of his throat, which is what my Dad had.
I had to leave the forum last night because all that talk got me thinking about my Dad. I was getting a little misty, there.
I’m glad you spent time with him. Did he seem pleased?
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
2:28 pm
ok md, turd et. al. I understand the concept of Israel and our “propping up” of their government intellectually; my question is why do we CONTINUE to do it? Isn’t Israel viable enough to stand on their own two feet? It’s small yes, but it’s powerful; we’ve made sure of that. And if we are going to keep sending billions of taxpayer money to Israel indefinitely, shouldn’t we get more for our money?
Yes, they make the other Arab countries walk cautiously around them; but they have the technology to send out drones, etc to stop insurgents as well as they know the region and the regions mores and social customs first hand. Can we really depend on Israel when we need them, or is Israel going to leave us when the going gets tough in the Middle East by putting their own self interests first? That’s what I want to know.
Also I thought Afghanistan was supposed to be a “democratic” country now…..
Taxpayer
October 30th, 2009
2:29 pm
Turd,
Did you mention something about water quality and who’s trying to make sure it really is safe to drink. Dude! If you think that the Republicans are there to make sure you have clean air and water and such then have I got a deal on some Marshland for you.
md
October 30th, 2009
2:29 pm
“Gov’t says stimulus saved or created 650,000 jobs”
With the Salt Marsh Mouse Community reporting 500,000 of those saved jobs. Way to go Nancy!!
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:31 pm
Bosch 2:18
[[ I have dibs on being her sous chef. In Paris.”
Wanna arm wrestle?]]
Nope. I’m gonna be nice. Set you up on a date with Anna. That oughta take care of the competition. Can you say ‘ingredient’?
http://abc.go.com/shows/v/bio/anna/275793
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
2:32 pm
TF Paul
Oh they are draining the swamp alright. And finding a lot of pollution in the mud underneath. And they own that mud.
Marsh
No Nap. I was out collecting kittens so I could protect them from you.
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
2:33 pm
So it falls on us to be marriage counselor. In a polygamous marriage. Even while a couple of the wives want to murder the guy in his sleep. And all the guy wants to do is be left alone.
Liked that metaphor!! Gotta use it myself, (without giving you credit of course
)
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
2:36 pm
md
LOL!!
So you know about Nancy’s efforts to save the mouse, while she and her husband built a private golf course that has been sited over and over for dumping pesticides in the ground water.
But . . . she is . . so . . . upset . . . about the violence . . . back in the 70s.
I think that she is so upset because no amount of plastic surgery is going to fix that sagging face.
md
October 30th, 2009
2:40 pm
“Can we really depend on Israel when we need them, or is Israel going to leave us when the going gets tough in the Middle East by putting their own self interests first?”
I would hazard a guess that Isreal may be asking the very same question of us.
Do a little reading on the “silent war”, and then ask again why we are there.
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
2:43 pm
NIF: I had to leave the forum last night because all that talk got me thinking about my Dad. I was getting a little misty, there.
I’m sorry I made you sad, that was not my intent. But I hope while you were thinking about your dad you also had a little “smile” for the good times too. In New Orleans when someone dies they have this type of parade, the first couple of blocks the music is sad and the parade is somber, the next few blocks though the music turns gay and the parade is lively. I think that’s how we should remember our loved ones; you’re sad to see them gone, but you’re happy that they were in your life.
I’m glad you spent time with him. Did he seem pleased?
Yes, and I feel like an idiot for not talking to him sooner! He’s a super nice guy and he has this accent that’s incredible!! He said his mother was german and his father an american southerner (Met during WWII); so his words come out kind of funny….you’d have to hear him yourself to understand what I’m talking about. But I’m glad you recommended that I stop and talk to him; he has so much HISTORY under his hat, he’s a virtual library of knowledge — I loved sitting down and getting to know him and I’m looking forward to seeing him again.
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:44 pm
DDR
Feel free to use it!
Reminds me of one of my favorite jokes (cue in a groan from Bosch). What’s the one thing a man never, ever wants t hear when he’s arguing with his wife?
“Just remember…. you have to fall asleep sometime….”
Bosch
October 30th, 2009
2:45 pm
Paul,
Well, um, thanks! She looks really, um, sweet!
You know, sweet, like sugar, like an ingredient in things you bake.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
2:47 pm
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
2:28 pm
As long as we are a Jewish/Christian Nation, we will always support Isreal. I, for one, can’t find fault in that. The American Jewish voting bloc is a powerful friend to have on a politicians side.
If we ever become a truly a nation of “religious freedom”, then things might change. It’s funny, but I think of Isreal as a sleeping pit bull, and you just don’t want to go there and pull its chain.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
2:49 pm
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:44 pm
Paul, I thought it was…”where are those sicissors?”
md
October 30th, 2009
2:50 pm
Here Deb, watch this and then do your own research to determine if their info is correct.
http://vodpod.com/watch/1585294-muslim-population-growth-video
The “silent war” will end without a shot being fired.
Ever wonder why religions of any kind preach having large families???
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:50 pm
Bosch
Okay, I take it you’re not familiar with the original series? Lemme put it this way… without giving too much away…. she’s not the ingredient….
Paul
October 30th, 2009
2:51 pm
Normal
That too. But that could be for stabbing. If the guy’s asleep, however….
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
2:53 pm
DebbieDoRight
I miss my Dad, but he would be almost 85 by now. My Mom is still alive and sharp as a tack. I hated that Dad looked so bad for the months before he died. He had to eat baby food and had a really bad quality of life.
It takes a while to understand what they are saying through that tube. But once you start understanding it, it all becomes clear. I’m sure he adores you for taking the time to talk to him. Most people feel like you felt and don’t want to force him to talk, but as you saw, they have so much to say and most people just walk on by.
We used to volunteer at Shepherd Center. That place will break your heart. Most spinal injuries happen to people between 18 and 25. And it usually happens to the most active people so you end up with these good looking, athletic young people who will probably never walk again. Heartbreaking.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
2:54 pm
Paul, I know…another one blamed on the worm…
Normal
October 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
NIF, I know what you mean. My mom will be 89 Tuesday. Dad died in ‘87 but he would have been 91 last August. Just as an aside, after I leave here, I’m headed for Mom’s. The sister and I have made a big mess of pinto bean soup and boiled ham, complete with the iron skillet cornbread (mine). We will break out the old albums and look at pictures after that. A fun time for all!
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
@md
Per your 1:27 post.
ALL countries say things; write things.
We both know what was relevant yesterday may not be so today.
Given that statement, would you say that Israel has signed treaties and written many things saying they would do what it took for peace in the region?
I am of the philosophy “…there is a difference between what one says versus what one does.”
Would you agree that Israel should not continue to occupy the West Bank, Golan Heights, Shabait Farms and virtually keep the people of Gaza prisoner?
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
md: Do a little reading on the “silent war”, and then ask again why we are there
md I have read tomes on the middle east dating all the way back to when most of that continent was part of the Ottoman empire. During the reign of Turkey, they didn’t have the type of strife and discord that they have now, per se. They still had battles between the local war lords and the Shiites and the Sunni were still at each others throats; but to the extent that they have now?, no.
I think oil, aka, money, is what changed the region into a political mine field; before the discovery of oil it was just a backwater continent left mostly alone by the turks.
I’ve also studied the “formation” of Israel after WWII when the UN requested, and most of the Arab countries agreed, that the biblical nation of Israel be allowed to continue as a home state for jewish refugees. A lot of Arab nations gave/ceded land to Israel; some changed their minds afterward, (the six day war in the 60’s); but at first it was a peaceful transfer of land with good intentions. Various historians disagree on how and why it went “south” so swiftly.
There is another biblical theory about the animosity towards Isarel’s existence. It’s stated by various theological historians that Hegar’s, (maid of Abraham and Sarah; who had Abraham’s son at Sarah’s insistence) Hegar’s son (Arab) and Sarah’s son (Israeli) will always be at war because of the treatment of Abraham and Sarah towards Hegar after Sarah gave birth to (?) [can't remember the son's name, I'm thinking it was Isiah], and proceeded to demand that Abraham kick Hegar & her son out and strand them in the desert.
But these are just theories and conjecture. Every country in the ME has their own version of what happened and why (the six day war); and their own “culprit” behind the attacks. It’s a cauldron of political intrigue and strife.
Paul
October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm
Normal
Enjoy tonight. Memories are what’s left.
BTW – good cornbread is an art form. Takes incantations and generational energy to get it to come out just right.
I’m jealous.
Tom
October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm
I can’t imagine why! Missing-Link BushDrunk kept up such an admirable dialogue with them all those years. Ahh, but he’s retired now – gone where all heroic Bushes go. G.H.W. “I bailed out on my crew at 1800 ft.”), Silverado multi-felonious Neil, Jeb (”Les have anuther lil drinkie-poo rat cheer in Florduh.”) A nifty gang of freedom-fighters!
USinUK
October 30th, 2009
3:07 pm
okay … home … dinenr’s started … just waiting for the mister to get here …
and, since I haven’t been able to get this song out of my head all day, I’m now sharing it with you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9O_0Z_j15k
(fantastic album, too)
USinUK
October 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
Normal – hugs to you and your fam – it sounds like you have a great evening planned for your mom and I’ll bet she loves having all her younguns around her!
md
October 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
Jackie,
It was not too long ago, that Isreal pulled out of Gaza as a token of peace, with the palestinians set to make the next move, and they did, Hamas moved their rockets to the new border and then went to war with the moderate side Fatah. Hamas has no intentions of a 2 State solution, and their Charter backs that up. As for the rest, those areas were just fine prior to ‘67. Had the arabs not started that war, we wouldn’t even be discussing them now.
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:12 pm
The sister and I have made a big mess of pinto bean soup and boiled ham, complete with the iron skillet cornbread (mine).
That’s why i LOVE the south!! You can’t eat that good in Washington State. Until I moved here I was mostly a vegetarian, (except for ribs — even Blacks who’ve turned muslim won’t give up ribs); but since I’ve been here I’ve learned that meat is GOOODDDD!!! And a little meat now and then is a good thing!! And Pinto Beans, cooked with ham and a thick gravy is DANG GOOD!
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
3:14 pm
Pat Robertson on Hate Crimes bill
Hilarious stuff!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbo8fz7qFE
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:15 pm
Paul, My Moms Mom taught me to make cornbread on a wood burning stove in them thar Kentucky hills…she always said I had the touch. Love good old fashioned cornbread.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:17 pm
Thanks, USinUK. Hope y’all have a great weekend and Happy Halloween!!!
Paul
October 30th, 2009
3:19 pm
Normal
Like I said, it’s magic!
Was in a store the other day and spied a jar of Tupelo honey. Incredibly good stuff. Peter Fonda starred in a fine movie about a Tupelo honey guy. Anyhow, it’s special, rare, and I bought if for cornbread. To eat on it, not in it. Don’t know if it’s a proper thing to do in the South, but I do like it.
Now the trick is finding some halfway decent cornbread to put it on. These are the important challenges in life!
Nothing Is Free
October 30th, 2009
3:19 pm
Normal
Pinto beans and corn bread. Man. That is living. I hated it as a child because it’s about all we got, but what I wouldn’t give for my Grandmother’s cornbread.
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
3:20 pm
@md
Somehow, I felt that you would say that Israel was attacked in 1967. History does not allow that statement support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
As for the war between Hamas and Fatah, it was and still is two competing political views amongst their own people. Israel used this disagreement to attack the Gaza after a number of homemade rockets landed in Isareli territory and 1 of its citizens was killed. You do realize that Israel continued to do cross-border raids, kidnap citizens, cut off water, food and electricity, prevented the Palestenians from going to the beach or crossing the border with Egypt, their water allocation being 20 gallons per day, snipers still shooting children on their way to school.
If you acknowledge these document actions and take into account someone dictating your life because of perceptions about what you may do, it makes it difficult for one to understand why the other side would fight back, does it not?
Turd Ferguson
October 30th, 2009
3:22 pm
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
Abrahams son was Isaac.
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
3:23 pm
Pinto beans, cornbread and onion can’t be beat.
Turd Ferguson
October 30th, 2009
3:23 pm
DooRight…ya…MMMMMM…Pinto beans and CawnBread…YOWSUH!!
Careful…a little cawnbread goes along weigh.
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
3:25 pm
Pintos are good, but Navy beans cooked long and slow with a good helping of yellow-meal cornbread with a generous amount of country butter is at the top of my list.
Growing up in the hills of NC, especially this time of year makes on think of a meal that included fried apples.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:28 pm
Paul, we always used black strap molasses on ours for desert, with the meal, while hot, it was honest to God home churned butter. Heaven has nothing better.
—————
NIF: I grew up with them too, but I never got tired of them…go figure. Maybe that’s how we got our divergent political views…
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:29 pm
USinUK: Hope I can catch you before you leave for the night. I’ve been waiting to hit you with this for the longest. Classic James Dean, see if you can figure out the movie. No cheating!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d92f_DaEqAE&feature=related
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:30 pm
JACKIE: I never heard of Nay beans until I joined the Navy, but I do agree that they are good. I have a killer recipe for a white chili that uses them…dang good.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:32 pm
DEBBIE, I can’t do youtube here but I know all of the James Dean movies…give me a hint.
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
3:32 pm
Yum! Homemade fried apple pies, I’m starving for sure now!
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:35 pm
Careful…a little cawnbread goes along weigh.
Too funny!! You always were good with playing with words!!
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:36 pm
NOrmal ok, here’s the hint: Twins, angry father, not so virtuous mother…..
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
3:37 pm
Anyone ever have potatoes and okra fried together in lard? Oh man!
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:39 pm
DEBBIE…East Of Eden?
Turd Ferguson
October 30th, 2009
3:40 pm
Nice weekend all! Cya.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:42 pm
MARSH, Okra, from Gods garden. Never fried them with potatos…got to try that, but I use them mainly in stews.
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
3:42 pm
@Normal
As I have gotten older, cooking has become my hobby. I have collected many recipes and if you don’t mind, pass that recipe to me. Thank You.
One of the better meals is to have Navy beans, mixed greens, corn bread, fried chicken cooked with butter, fried apple pies with lots of sweet tea. Southern delight.
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:43 pm
TF, Happy Halloween!
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:43 pm
Jackie at 3:20 – when i clicked on your link this is the first thing that caught my eye from Wikipedia: “The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (March 2009)”.
Depending on which historian is writing this piece, most are leaning towards their own point of view as to who was the aggressor. This is such a hotbed subject that i fear that it can never seen in “neutral” colors. I’ve read some historians who say that the Arab nations started the war, and i’ve read some that said that Israel was not only the aggressor, but instigated and agitated the Arab world behind the scenes in order to project their own image, (Israel), as victims to the world audience.
I could never find just straight ‘facts” on the subject/history of the event without the emotion/prejudice of the chronologist.
md
October 30th, 2009
3:43 pm
Jackie,
Do a little more research and seek the truth as to why Isreal technically fired the first shot in ‘67. Would you stand in the schoolyard surrounded by the big school bullies and wait for them to pummel you, or hit them in the nads and have a chance?
As for Gaza, if Hamas would quit firing rockets into Isreal, there would be no retaliation. Check the facts and you will notice Hamas is the aggressor.
If Hamas/Hezbolah were to lay down their arms tommorrow, there would be peace. If Isreal were to lay down there arms tommorrow, they would be driven to the sea. Try living with that realization.
Marsh
October 30th, 2009
3:44 pm
Normal,
When we didn’t have very much of either one, we combined them and fried them suckers up. Good eating!
Normal
October 30th, 2009
3:44 pm
Jackie, you got it. I’ll post it here Monday
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:45 pm
DEBBIE…East Of Eden?
ooooohhh youre good! I’ve got to try harder next time……..
Matilda
October 30th, 2009
3:45 pm
Is it time for tune-age yet?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
October 30th, 2009
3:46 pm
And then they hear this strange man in Washington, playing Hamlet with himself, dramatizing his own role in what should be a clear-headed and quick, unemotional decision-making process. After all, he announced his (vacuous) “comprehensive new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan” to great fanfare last March. All he has to do now is give it substance.
I can, in fact, find nothing, in his record so far, resembling a presidential decision, or specific presidential direction; only purple prose, almost never to the point. It is surely evident by now, this is a president who cannot make decisions. It grieves me that the soldiers must pay for that.-David Warren
Our “emperor” has no clothes, mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
Gov Option Done Deal!
October 30th, 2009
3:53 pm
Am Vet–
Many thanks for the Doobie Bros. and Three Dog Night.
DebbieDoRight
October 30th, 2009
3:55 pm
Ok Normal it’s a tear jerker, (classic “chick” flick). It was originally done in the 30’s, however the most classic rendition is with Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr. The greatest line of the film is “It’s the closest thing to heaven that we have in New York.” (when talking about the Empire State Building.
Gov Option Done Deal!
October 30th, 2009
4:01 pm
As Bob Baer who used to run Middle East for CIA and now writes for Time says–if Obama did give McChrystal another 40,000 troops, all fuel for American operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan goes through the Khyber Pass on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass
We are paying bribes to the Taliban (not exactly winning but that’s the Bush method of proclaiming victory) of 2 grand per truck. There is no way we have any means of fuel supporting troop increases at this time.
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
4:03 pm
@md
Qualifying.
The Russians had enormous amounts of firepower pointed at us, we did not shoot first and ask questions later.
Hamas fired more than 100 of those homemade rockets into Israel and 1 Israeli citizen was killed. Israel invaded Gaza and killed more than 1,500 Palestinians and left thousands of bomblets from cluster bombs. Gaza is the world’s greatest concentration of people and the Israeli Air Force used jets to drop bombs. Wonder how they could distinguish citizens from fighters? How could they justify shelling those on the beach in Gaza using naval gunships?: Standard refrain, “we will investigate this mistake?”
Hamas/Hezbollah has AK-47’s and rocks vs. Israel’s tanks, jets and other modern weapons. Wonder what chance they have in defeating that resistance? How about Israel stop kidnapping young men and women and putting them in prison in the Negev desert without charges. Documentation shows many have been there for more than 15 years.
Jackie
October 30th, 2009
4:05 pm
@I Report
Who is David Warren and what credentials does he have the supersede those of professional military and diplomatic people that say the opposite?
md
October 30th, 2009
4:10 pm
“Qualifying.
The Russians had enormous amounts of firepower pointed at us, we did not shoot first and ask questions later.”
And had Russia been firing into the US during that time period? As I said, dig a little deeper. Syria was shelling Isreal from the Golan way before the actual war. And get the heck away from Wiki, you can do better research yourself.
Guzelvis
October 30th, 2009
4:35 pm
No wonder Gadhafi trashed Ahmadinejad at U.N. Read the funny story @ http://bit.ly/15Wtzv
david wayne osedach
October 31st, 2009
9:19 am
Ahmadinejad is committed to making nuclear bombs. And he will have them. In the interim he will say anything or do anything to throw up a smokescreen. The rest of the world should know that by now.
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