Saudis terrified we might actually reduce oil dependence
“Chutzpah” is a Hebrew word, but I imagine that Arabic, Hebrew’s sister language, probably has a version of it too.
If so, that word certainly applies to the Saudis:
Saudi Arabia is trying to enlist other oil-producing countries to support a provocative idea: if wealthy countries reduce their oil consumption to combat global warming, they should pay compensation to oil producers.
The oil-rich kingdom has pushed this position for years in earlier climate-treaty negotiations. While it has not succeeded, its efforts have sometimes delayed or disrupted discussions. The kingdom is once again gearing up to take a hard line on the issue at international negotiations scheduled for Copenhagen in December.
The chief Saudi negotiator, Mohammad al-Sabban, described the position as a “make or break” provision for the Saudis, as nations stake out their stance before the global climate summit scheduled for the end of the year….
“It is a very serious trend that we need to follow and influence if we want to minimize its adverse impacts on our economies and our people,” Mr. Sabban said in an e-mail message to other OPEC officials. “That does not mean we would like to obstruct any progress or that we do not want to join any international agreement. We will do that if the deal is fair and equitable and does not transfer the burden to us.”
They want to be paid for the oil that we use, and they also want to be paid for the oil that we don’t use. And they are frightened to death that we in the West might finally start taking steps that would free us from our dependence on the black gold beneath their desert sands.
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159 comments Add your comment
Doggone/GA
October 15th, 2009
12:07 pm
Sounds like the guy that murdered his parents…then threw himself on the mercy of the court…because he was an orphan!
I Report :-) You Whine :-( O Stands For Zero
October 15th, 2009
12:09 pm
I know, it’s like we will ever drill for our own oil.
They should know the democrats, mmm, mmmm, mmmmm, better than that by now.
Brad Steel
October 15th, 2009
12:16 pm
How much do they want to paid if the world doesn’t use Saudi terrorists?
N.J.
October 15th, 2009
12:19 pm
Of course they are terrified. The worse thing that the U.S. could do to the Middle East, as well as to put a huge dent into Islamic extremists, would be to make turn oil back into the messy, annoying sludge that it once was.
The U.S. and the Western World in general has abandoned or massively improved on every late 19th century technology except for the gasoline combustion engine, which is essentially pretty much the same as the antique that ran the first Daimler and Ford Model T. As a source of energy, petroleum derived fuels are massively inefficient.
And with regard to the generation of electricity, coal is even less efficient. The resulting ash that has is dumped into huge ponds. The residue from buring coal is with toxic chemicals and metals like arsenic, lead, mercury and selenium. The dams that keep the stuff in place are all years older than engineers state are their safest lifespan. Last year one of these dams burst in Tennessee and it destroyed many communities in the path of the ash flood. Once beautiful developments are now pretty much too toxic to live in any longer and that was a relatively small, 300 acre ash dam.
Other countries like Denmark are generating large percentages of their national electrical power using renewable resources that create no residual products that have to be stored and the more we use the anything that has to be burned to create energy, we are creating huge amounts of waste products that have to be handled someway. That usually requires using some sort of land that could be put to much better purposes.
Bin Laden and others like him would never become the wealthy sort that was able to use that wealth to finance all sort of anti-western activities and terrorism. We have largely been funding these people.
Again, Jimmy Carter got it right back in 1979 when he said that being reliant on these people would eventually result in giving them the resources to attack us in many ways, including economically.
We would not be concerned about Iran building missiles and nuclear reactors had that nation not generated huge amounts of oil wealth while the Shah was in power, and even now, when other nations all over the world still purchase petroleum from that country even if we do not.
Had we started on a path to independence from oil 30 years ago, when Carter laid out a plan to start, many of the events of the last three decades would never have occurred. The road to 9/11 was covered with an oil slick.
Paul
October 15th, 2009
12:23 pm
They should teach a course in “Spin.” Problem is, some here will think it’s a reasonable position.
Maybe our negotiators could counter with a list of options on how they could develop a post-oil economy. And what their countries would have looked like if they’d begun 30 years ago.
But they should do it all diplomatically, of course.
Report/Whine has made some good points about this. IF we continue down this path and we develop a fleet of plug-in hybrids… if we replace more and more gas-only with hybrids… if we want to replace dependence on Mideast oil regardless of hybrid development…
What does the Left have to say about electric and domestic petroleum development?
And I will add, will the Right support development with strict environmental safeguards and without a huge taxpayer giveaway to energy developers and speculators?
Nothing Is Free
October 15th, 2009
12:23 pm
**And they are frightened to death that we in the West might finally start taking steps that would free us from our dependence on the black gold beneath their desert sands.**
Can’t drill here for oil.
Can’t drill offshore for oil even though China and other countries are drilling right off our coast without or strict environmental regs.
Can’t explore for oil
Can’t drill for Natural Gas
Can’t build any more nuclear facilities,
Can only put up windmills where it isn’t ruining a millionaire democrat’s view.
Can’t use coal.
Not enough solar, by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh. I’m sure the Saudis are terrified.
jt
October 15th, 2009
12:27 pm
I don’t know about the Saudis being “frightened” of us,
but the sad thing is,
a few sheiks in Saudi Arabia could BUY that policy/law from our present congress.
To combat global warming of course. Hold on to your wallets.
#1 Foxy Lady
October 15th, 2009
12:30 pm
Don’t worry President Barack H. Obama will fix this one too.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
October 15th, 2009
12:31 pm
Well, I wouldn’t mind taking a swim in warm water in January. So I say let this global warming keep right on going. Just don’t raise the price of gas & oil. Who cares if a bunch of New Yorkers drown after the icebergs all melt and raise the sea level? It won’t reach up here. Long as I got pretty low gas prices and plenty of beer I’ll get by.
Besides, I can’t afford it now, since the SS people decided they wouldn’t be giving us no Cost of Living raise next year. Where’s all the blogs about that? Year after year I paid money into SS and now I want my raise. What kind of Commie country is this? You pay in money for better than 40 years and now the cheapskates say you can’t have a raise? You can’t hardly live in a Free Market society without a raise. I want my raise. I need my raise. Is this any way to treat a God-fearing, hard-working, Conservative, loyal American?
Things have been going wrong ever since they swore this Kenyan into the White House. This is just one more thing that’s went wrong.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
Gas Tax Now
October 15th, 2009
12:33 pm
The Saudi position should be taken through the gelding gin with $1.00 per gallon gas tax that we pay to ourselves.
joe matarotz
October 15th, 2009
12:36 pm
Sooner or later, the world will run out of oil. Then OPEC can eat sand while they work to reduce their dependence on food. In the meantime, we will have developed alternative technologies that will allow us to continue driving. See you at Mickey D’s, sheik.
El Jefe
October 15th, 2009
12:37 pm
It will never happen – the current administration is dedicated to keep us dependent on foreign oil. Can’t drill, can’t build refineries, can’t use coal, can’t harm the little critters.
jewcowboy
October 15th, 2009
12:38 pm
I wonder if Mary, Liz and Dick Cheney’s new firm of Cheney, Cheney & Cheney will be representing them.
USinUK
October 15th, 2009
12:41 pm
NiF –
apologies for the delay – I responded to you downstairs
Nothing Is Free
October 15th, 2009
12:41 pm
NJ
Demark isn’t as good as most Scandinavian countries:
Denmark’s green house gas emissions per dollar of value produced has been for the most part unstable since 1990, seeing sudden growths and falls. Over all though, there has been a reduction in gas emissions per dollar value added to its market.[41] It is comparable to countries such as Germany,[42] but lagging behind other Scandinavian countries such as Norway[43] and Sweden.[44]
that’s from Wiki, so I’m not going to bet on the facts.but the real problem is that Demark has 5.5 million people. We have 300 million.
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2009
12:42 pm
What does the Left have to say about electric and domestic petroleum development?
Why, Paul, just ask NiF or Andy. They are mind readers; they would know what this monolithic entity called the Left might have to say.
If you’re curious about what I have to say, on the other hand…
First off, obviously we already permit such development. The real question is how much are you willing to trash previous agreements and risk expensive environmental clean-ups for the sake of a marginal improvement in energy independence? My answer is, nothing, nada, until serious conservation measures including expanded mass transit and other painful lifestyle changes are made collectively, before we collectively surrender our nation’s natural resources. Quid pro quo, mofos!
Second, I see nukes as a necessary bridge to alternative energy sources. There are only so many places they can be built—you need a pretty decent cooling water supply, after all—and they’ll always be hideously expensive to build, but I’m not opposed to proceeding cautiously and (for example) going forward with some additional units that are planned in various spots around the country.
But third—back to conservation. What kind of incentives are there to get kids out of their parents’ cars and onto bikes and on foot? And adults too, for that matter? What kind of incentives are there for more live/work/play communities? For denser development, where if you have a car at least you don’t have to drive so freekin’ far to live your life? You want to really scare the Saudi princes, let’s show the world how a world power reinvents itself into a lean, mean, sustainin’ machine.
@@
October 15th, 2009
12:44 pm
Terrified of us???
I must be missing something.
Midori
October 15th, 2009
12:51 pm
So Andy — how’s Rush’s NFL purchase going?
Kamchak
October 15th, 2009
12:54 pm
jewcowboy
Welcome back! All is well?
Gas Tax Now
October 15th, 2009
12:55 pm
What does the Left have to say about electric and domestic petroleum development?
dB answers: My answer is, nothing, nada, until serious conservation measures including expanded mass transit and other painful lifestyle changes are made collectively, before we collectively surrender our nation’s natural resources.
Worth reading again. Hooty hoo!!!
every mothers son
October 15th, 2009
12:57 pm
The party of NO is at it again … What a bunch of D*ldos!
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/9610
USinUK
October 15th, 2009
12:58 pm
“painful lifestyle changes”
oh noes!!!! not mass trans or rideshare!!! the paaaaaiiiiinnnnnnn …
Gas Tax Now
October 15th, 2009
12:58 pm
And how about nationalizing ALL of the proceeds for oil from public sources.
Why should Exxon get even a nickel? That is the whole country’s property, not oil companies!
Nothing Is Free
October 15th, 2009
12:59 pm
USinUK
Those stats were addressed in the article i posted. The discussion was about what states were worse for Black People. Those states lock everybody up. Not just black people.
Your other stats were about the entire population, not the Black demographic.
But the real discussion is about “What have you done for me lately” for the people that Black people keep voting for.
They elect Democrat after Democrat but are constantly blaming their problems on Republicans. That was the discussion.
Look at the plight of Blacks in inner city Atlanta. There’s not a Republican in sight in the Atlanta Government or the Atlanta school system and that city and school system is absolutely horrible in 90% of the schools. Most Blacks live in inner cities around the country. Look at Watts. Look at Bedford Stvenson in NYC. Look at the Southside of Chicago. Look at the entire city of Detroit, Cleveland, Miami, New Orleans. All locations where Black people live far below the poverty line and are attending school systems that can only guarantee that a kid will become a killer or a priest and there is not a Republican in sight.
You can talk about red or blue states all you want (even though the blue states are the usually worse than the red states), but state governments do not control local police departments, or local school systems. That is controlled by the city leaders and every city I listed is almost completely controlled by Democrats.
The head of the Black Chamber of Commerce said it best:
“Democrats love poor black people who know their place.” I tend to agree with him.
Mrs. Godzilla
October 15th, 2009
1:01 pm
We don’t negotiate with terrorists.
And that includes insuance companies and oil exporting countries.
Screw ‘em.
I support investment in renewable energy, but not fossil fuels.
AND until they clean up the existing nuke plants, no new nukes.
http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_power/reactor-map/embedded-flash-map.html
FinnMcCool
October 15th, 2009
1:04 pm
But will the Saudi gazillionaire’s do without oil profits? Go back to living in tents, herding camels, and biding time in their harems?
Things could be worse.
Nothing Is Free
October 15th, 2009
1:04 pm
gas tax now
**Why should Exxon get even a nickel? That is the whole country’s property, not oil companies!**
You may have a million dollar oil derrick and a billion dollar refinery, but most of us don’t. We sort of need the oil companies to make the gasoline that we use to power our cars.
But if you want to pay that extra dollar on gas, just send it in to the IRS. I’m sure they would take your money. But hey, I’m going to hang onto my money so could you just go ahead and send in two dollars per gallon, so I will be covered, too?
Nothing Is Free
October 15th, 2009
1:06 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
Can you help me? I have this big windmill mounted on my car, but it is such a hassle going under bridges. Any ideas?
Mrs. Godzilla
October 15th, 2009
1:06 pm
NIF
Walk.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: O Stands For Zero
October 15th, 2009
1:06 pm
diM- You haven’t heard?
Turd Ferguson
October 15th, 2009
1:09 pm
Or better yet let the US, China, Russia and Britain carve up the middle east into 4 equal parts and take the oil which is RIGHTFULLY OURS. If we relentlessly bomb them eventually they will see it our way.
And none of this panzy Aced bombing only govt buildings etc…OH NO, the attack should be on everything, except oil producing industries. Guaranteed that after a month or two of bombings almost anything and everything those chicken S&$^ mothers will surrender.
That oil is RIGHTFULLY OURS.
Or lettuce begin drilling in Alaska. The US has plenty of oil reserves. Ya just dont “hear” about them.
PS…perhaps if we threaten to drop The HildaBeast on them they will immedately surrender without further loss of life.
Lord Help Us
October 15th, 2009
1:11 pm
‘lettuce begin drilling in Alaska’- Good heavens, we’ll never ketchup with demand…
jewcowboy
October 15th, 2009
1:12 pm
Kamchak,
Howdy and thanks! All is great. mr. nonjewcowboy and I have found a flat in Holland Park (the prices of London’s real estate market are freakin crazy!) and it looks like we’ll be moving at the first of the year. I’ve been checking in on the blog occasionally, but haven’t had a chance to post until now. I see things are still the same
I Report (-: You Whine )-: O Stands For Zero
October 15th, 2009
1:12 pm
President Obama recently shifted authority for approving sales to China of missile and space technology from the White House to the Commerce Department — a move critics say will loosen export controls and potentially benefit Chinese missile development.
Um, Chinese kampaign kontributions, mmm, mmmm, mmmmm!
Turd Ferguson
October 15th, 2009
1:14 pm
Or perhaps Obobo can give one of his famous “do-nothing” speeches, win yet another grandiose award and the Saudis will simply change their minds.
Lord Help Us
October 15th, 2009
1:15 pm
Whiner, now the Chi-Comms can start putting that missile technology the Clinton Admin sold them for campaign contributions back in the 90’s to good use…
Sure has taken them a long time…
USinUK
October 15th, 2009
1:16 pm
NiF –
“Those stats were addressed in the article i posted. The discussion was about what states were worse for Black People. Those states lock everybody up. Not just black people.”
I understand what you’re saying but the two states with the largest black population are Louisiana and Mississippi – so, the stats hold, even when you include whites and other ethnicities.
“but state governments do not control local police departments, or local school systems”
as far as local school systems, the problem there is the horrible system the US has for funding its schools based on the wealth of a particular area. same goes for local taxes funding local policing … (but, they do get supplemental funding from the states AND the feds).
as far as local control, I thought that’s what the GOP was all about – pushing local decisions down to the cities and towns rather than in the capital … (not that I disagree with that train o’ thought – just pointing out that is a central tenet to the GOP philosophy)
anyhoo … I’m heading out the door after a very long day, so sorry the convo has been a bit stop-and-start … have a good night!
Gas Tax Now
October 15th, 2009
1:17 pm
NiF,
You give Exxon your portion of the oil.
getalife
October 15th, 2009
1:19 pm
Enter your comments here
RAMBLE ON!!!
October 15th, 2009
1:21 pm
I’m terrified Barry O is restoring the US image around the world to the Jimmy Carters Days.
Libya on Thursday freed 88 Islamists with Al-Qaeda links from Abu Slim prison in Tripoli, an AFP correspondent at the scene reported.
jt
October 15th, 2009
1:24 pm
“They want to be paid for the oil that we use, and they also want to be paid for the oil that we don’t use. ”
Substitute soybeans for oil and that sounds like our current domestic agriculture policy.
C’mon Jay, big government is big government. Soveriegnty is just a roadblock.
It makes perfect sense to supplement Saudi Arabia.
In the name of global warming of course.
Paul
October 15th, 2009
1:26 pm
sdb
There are some who are opposed to anything at all in the name of conservation. And they have clout. Everyone needs to give a little, even on pet causes.
Progress is coming, though. Check out this article which addresses one of the weaknesses in the renewable energy grid:
http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/1683361.html
Mrs. Godzilla 1:01
[[I support investment in renewable energy, but not fossil fuels.]]
I understand by ‘investment’ you mean taxpayer/government support? I can go along with that.
But that doesn’t mean we have to prohibit their developing American reserves at their own expense. We’re gonna need that bridge to wean us off the Middle East –
Hey jewcowboy!
You’re gonna love it there! Holland Park? Does the flat have a spare room for visitors?
Joey
October 15th, 2009
1:30 pm
Absolutely, President Obama will fix this one too!
Uh. Ah. Hmmm…….. What was that other thing that he fixed?
jewcowboy
October 15th, 2009
1:30 pm
“Substitute soybeans for oil and that sounds like our current domestic agriculture policy.
C’mon Jay, big government is big government. Soveriegnty is just a roadblock.”
So is Archers Daniel Midland Exxon in this scenario? Well they are both corporate welfare Queens, so I suppose so.
Small government begets big business? Or is it just corrupt government begets big corporate welfare Queens?
Mrs. Godzilla
October 15th, 2009
1:32 pm
Paul
I understand where you are coming from, but I will not support any more $$$ on a fossil fuel infrastructure.
To my mind prevention of damage done by the use of fossil fuels outweighs the need for its use.
One of those points on which we will have to agree to disagree.
FinnMcCool
October 15th, 2009
1:34 pm
Desalination plants along our coast putting out drinkable water and electricity.
Bud Wiser
October 15th, 2009
1:34 pm
Barack Hussein Obama,
Mmmm….mmmm….mmmm
Gonna make us green,
You can bet yo momma,
Mmmm….mmmm….mmmm,
Makin millions o jobs, day by day,
Everybody workin’, o happy day,
Mmmm….mmmm….mmmm
#1 Foxy Lady
October 15th, 2009
1:35 pm
President Barack H. Obama will fix this problem just like he fixed the ecomony. Or maybe you haven’t seem the 10,000 points he scored on the Wall Street score board.
I’ll tell you again, smart guy: Suck it, loser!!!
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
October 15th, 2009
1:35 pm
They should be since their “business partner” W is no longer at the helm to put Saudi interests ahead of American interests. Thank the lord, we have someone in office like Obama who is not beholden to the Saudis. Its not like they paid for his college or anything.
RollerGirl
October 15th, 2009
1:36 pm
Have you seen the new micro cars they are designing now? One safe bet..anyone driving one WILL BE a 40 year old virgin. I can’t WAIT to see one of them on I-285, smushed into oblivion by an 18 wheeler. My self satisfying smirk will be aparent to all.
Rest assured that oil , which is the best fuel available until we get to nuclear fusion, will have continued #1 status for the next century plus, regardless of the libs grand schemes.