Scalia downplays power of the Christian cross
The U.S. Supreme Court yesterday heard arguments on the fate of a cross erected by the VFW as a war memorial on government property in the Mohave desert. Press accounts of the argument suggest the case will be decided on the rather narrow issue of whether Congress successfully mooted church/state issues by arranging to transfer ownership of the land to the VFW in 2004.
But the most interesting and telling exchange came between Justice Antonin Scalia and Peter Eliasberg, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney:
As reported by the Wall Street Journal:
“Justice Antonin Scalia disputed the premise behind the lawsuit, telling Mr. Eliasberg that it was unfair to view the cross merely as a Christian symbol.
“The cross is the most common symbol of the resting place of the dead,” (Scalia) said. “What would you have them erect? Some conglomerate of a cross, a Star of David, and you know, a Muslim half moon and star?”
“I have been in Jewish cemeteries. There is never a cross on a tombstone of a Jew,” Mr. Eliasberg said. “So it is the most common symbol to honor Christians.”
“I don’t think you can leap from that to the conclusion that the only war dead that that cross honors are the Christian war dead,” Justice Scalia said. “I think that’s an outrageous conclusion.”
That’s one of the more absurd statements you’re ever going to hear from a Supreme Court justice. At least I hope it is.
Ask Jewish people, and Jewish veterans, whether they think that a Christian cross honors their war dead. Ask Muslim veterans whether they consider the cross a “common symbol of the resting place of the(ir) dead,” as Scalia tried to argue. Most would not. As Eliasberg pointed out, there are no crosses in a Jewish cemetary. It is not a common symbol of the resting place of the dead. It is an exclusively Christian symbol.
Scalia embarrassed himself with that argument.
Two other points:
– Scalia demonstrates yet again the inanity of the arguments used against the confirmation of Sonia Sotomayor as justice. All judges — liberal, conservative, male, female, Italian-American or “Nuyorican” — bring their own backgrounds and perspectives to the job, just as Scalia has done here. He was speaking not as a legal scholar but as a devout Christian whose faith blinds him to the fact that others might see the cross differently than he does. It would have been shocking to have heard a similar argument from the lips of Ruth Bader Ginsberg or Stephen Breyer, the two Jews on the court. It was merely surprising to hear it from Scalia.
– In his effort to smuggle the cross over the wall dividing church and state, note how Scalia had to belittle its significance and try to strip it of its emotional power. It’s not really a cross, the place where Jesus Christ died for the sins of all mankind. It’s not really the symbol of Christ’s sacrifice, a symbol that has been deeply revered by his followers for thousands of years. No, Scalia asks us to pretend that it’s just a horizontal stick tied to a vertical stick, a generic, bland little device, “the most common symbol of the resting place of the dead” for all faiths. It has nothing to do with Christ or Christianity.
Borrowing a metaphor from the Bible, Scalia was playing the role of Peter in the Garden, claiming to government officials that he did not recognize Christ even though he saw him right in front of him. It demonstrates once again how government-sanctioned expressions of religious faith inevitably cheapen that faith and bleach it of its power. Yes, the wall separating church and state protects government from religion, but most of all it protects religion from government.
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219 comments Add your comment
Matilda
October 8th, 2009
8:49 am
Good one, Mr. Bookman!
Normal
October 8th, 2009
8:51 am
We should have a law that states only athiests are allowed to hold office. Talk about your separation of church and state then…
Mrs. Godzilla
October 8th, 2009
8:51 am
Mr G and I send thanks to y’all who offered kind words on Saturday.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
8:52 am
Fourth!
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
8:52 am
so, there you have it. according to Antonin Scalia, the cross is no longer a Christian symbol. it is evidently a lower-case T.
oy.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
8:53 am
Normal, only Aethist can hold office on Sunday, don’t you know anything about Blue laws!
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
8:55 am
I think we should tear down all symbolism. The Washington Monument, Mount Rushmore, the Grand Canyon, all of it!
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
8:56 am
Or put Reagan and John Lennon on Mount Rushmore, either one is fine by me.
Normal
October 8th, 2009
8:56 am
But Gandalf, if only Athiests held office, there would be no blue lawsand…you could buy booze on Sunday! Win-win!
Bosch
October 8th, 2009
8:57 am
Hey Mrs. G – I hope you and Mr. G are regrouping well. My regards.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
8:58 am
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
8:58 am
Mrs. G –
welcome back and (hugs) … was so sorry to hear about your mimi …
Northern Songs, Ltd.
October 8th, 2009
8:59 am
GtheWise – I posed an answer to your “last night” query downstairs.
Brad Steel
October 8th, 2009
9:00 am
hmm.. i though scalia had legally changed his 1st name to benito. go figure.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:00 am
Normal, the way I look at it, I run out of beer on Sunday, I can either, do yard work, go to the bootlegger or go to a sports bar and watch football and get waited on by a girl in a too tight low cut top. Blue laws aren’t all that bad sir!
Northern Songs, Ltd.
October 8th, 2009
9:00 am
GtheWise — I’ll be going tomorrow night – it’s Johnny’s birthday, doncha know.
Northern Songs, Ltd.
October 8th, 2009
9:01 am
Out. Of. Afghanistan. Now.
Matilda
October 8th, 2009
9:02 am
Is the Mimi like the Granny? Wow. I’m sorry for your loss, Mrs. G. That one stings, I know.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:04 am
Northern Songs, Ltd.:
you are correct!
Excellent show, my biggest beef is “Paul” doesn’t play Bass “Loosey Goosey”. I recommend Rain to all.
jconservative
October 8th, 2009
9:05 am
Note Jay’s statement: “… Yes, the wall separating church and state protects government from religion, but most of all it protects religion from government.”
This has been an important thought in the formation of the First Amendment “Establishment” clause. If the government establishes “its” religion, it will probably destroy my religion. So thought a number of the Founders.
And Scalia is dead wrong in his cheapening of the symbol of Christianity. But he only needs four more votes to carry the day.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
9:07 am
Impeach. What an embarrassment. We simply must devise a new method for screening and confirming nominees. The law is the law.
Brad Steel
October 8th, 2009
9:07 am
condolences, mrs. g.
you and your rapier wit were missed.
Northern Songs, Ltd.
October 8th, 2009
9:08 am
cool. looking forward to it. now it’s back to work before the network police come knocking on my office door. later all.
Brad Steel
October 8th, 2009
9:10 am
scalia’s argument belongs on AM radio and Fox, not in the SC.
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
9:10 am
GtG –
by the by … if you haven’t heard Eva Cassidy’s cover of Imagine, you haven’t heard it the way it’s meant to be sung …
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
9:11 am
Mrs. Godzilla
October 8th, 2009
8:51 am
You now have another angel watching over you. And you were an angel for trying to care for her. Take comfort knowing she’s in a better place. No more sorrow, no more pain. Someday soon you’ll be together again.
TnGelding
October 8th, 2009
9:13 am
I think the cross will be allowed to stay, but not because of his argument.
Stan
October 8th, 2009
9:14 am
I agree that it was a dumb argument…but if the feds gave/sold/whatever the land to the VFW then I fail to see an issue worthy of the SC on this one.
Let it go people.
sd
October 8th, 2009
9:15 am
This cross didn’t bother me. Nor would a Star of David or golden Buddha.
What does bother me is the continued development of our National Parks and Wildlife Refuges. I am sick of this idea that the “Parks are for the people’s enjoyment”.
Ed Abney was correct. They shouldn’t even build paved roads through the parks. Let the people who want to visit the parks, walk.
On Cumberland Island right here in GA there is a small church from slave times. It is a long hike if you want to visit it. It is the hike that makes it special. Our Congress has now MANDATED that the Island Rangers offer a minimum of three driven tours to that church. SO, they are going to have to build another road.
Stop it. Get out of your cars and walk.
WhoCares
October 8th, 2009
9:18 am
THIS? is all the Supreme Court has to do? Who needs ‘em?
Taxpayer
October 8th, 2009
9:20 am
Welcome back, Mrs. G.
Taxpayer
October 8th, 2009
9:21 am
I think we should tear down all symbolism. The Washington Monument, Mount Rushmore, the Grand Canyon, all of it!
And, Stone Mountain?
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
9:23 am
Taxpayer –
do they still end the Stone Mountain laser light show with the generals riding off ???
yee. haw.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:24 am
Nope, I like Stone Mountain.
Taxpayer
October 8th, 2009
9:24 am
scalia’s argument belongs on AM radio and Fox, not in the SC.
I’m wondering if that is not where he got it to begin with. I mean, Rush’s reach into the bowels of the Republican party is deep.
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
9:25 am
sd –
“Stop it. Get out of your cars and walk.”
um. http://www.viennamedical.com/images/invacare%20wheelchair%20TREX2_400_A.jpg
jsut sayin. the parks are for EVERYone. not jsut them with 2 good legs.
Taxpayer
October 8th, 2009
9:26 am
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
9:23 am
I don’t know. I have not been there in so long, I could not tell you.
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:28 am
EXPAT: Old John and that wife of his did a pretty darn good job of singing Imagine…
She, like Ms. Obama are the downfall of thier men. Brilliant men who married poorly. Why did you have to get me started….
david wayne osedach
October 8th, 2009
9:30 am
This cross in the Mohjave desert has been there 75 years. And now during the worst recession since the Gret Depresssion it is found to be offensive?
Taxpayer
October 8th, 2009
9:31 am
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:24 am
Nope, I like Stone Mountain.
How ’bout if we just re-carve the images to something like Abe Lincoln and MLK and Lee. A little diversity. What ya say. How about a little walkin’ the walk from these Republicans that claim to be so tolerant. I know the argument. It is a southern heritage thing. Well, then let’s carve an image of a little slave girl in shackles on there to make it more historically accurate.
Bosch
October 8th, 2009
9:31 am
Well, Scalia is always good for entertainment, but I wonder how the fundamentalists feel having a Supreme Court justice basically say, “The cross is no biggie.” The making for slippery slopes.
Doggone/GA
October 8th, 2009
9:31 am
“Get out of your cars and walk”
And what if you CAN’T get out and walk? Are such places to be ONLY for the enjoyment of that ambulatory? All handicapped persons need not apply?
Doggone/GA
October 8th, 2009
9:34 am
I wonder if Scalia had his fingers crossed behind his back when he made that statement?
Gandalf, the Wise
October 8th, 2009
9:37 am
Taxpayer:
Why can’t you just respect the great warriors of the Confederacy? The War of Northern Aggression brought great pain to the CSA. Once the yankees won and ended slavery, did they go to any great length to improve their condition? I think not. Slavery would have died with or without the War of Northern Aggression, possibly with more grace than what happened for 1865-1965. I was teasing earlier, but now I am serious. You have a warped view of what really happened in the late 1800s down here.
Mrs. Godzilla
October 8th, 2009
9:38 am
Based on Scalia’s previous history, I would suggest Scalia has never really understood Christ, let alone the symbolism of the Christian Cross.
USinUK
October 8th, 2009
9:39 am
DWO –
this case didn’t come out of nowhere – it’s been going through the lower courts for years, now. and it wasn’t because someone “suddenly” found it offensive –
“The cross, erected by a veterans’ association in 1934, stood peacefully for years until the National Park Service was asked and refused to build a Buddhist sanctuary nearby. Congress then blocked the funds to tear down the cross.
Retired Park Service employee Frank Buono fought back, charging in his lawsuit that the government was favoring one religion over another in violation of the constitution.
Buono, a Roman Catholic, won in a lower court, but Congress then designated the cross as one of the nation’s 49 national memorials.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ihYoeJ0KVHgA3pieIbULSGAE54Qw
Joan
October 8th, 2009
9:42 am
The revisionist history that so many seem to want to engage in is ludicrous. Next you will have atheists saying they need to delete God from the Constitution, chip “In God We Trust” from all of our public buildings, and the like. Monuments erected when this country still made sense ought to be allowed to remain. If, in future, people want to erect a giant turd to commemorate their idiocy then they should just go for it.
FrankLeeDarling
October 8th, 2009
9:42 am
Let’s put a golden calf next to it
Joan
October 8th, 2009
9:44 am
In 1934 people were a heck of a lot smarter and more tolerant than they are now. All this forced political correctness tries the soul.
Bosch
October 8th, 2009
9:44 am
Revisionist history? Is God mentioned in the Constitution? Where’s Dave R when you need him?