Feds can’t provide health care … except they do

Aw, c’mon Jay – you and your facts…and your research…and your thinking…

way unfair…

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Andy @ 8.09, I’ll just say this and get back to something/someone(s) useful–you’ve missed the salient point of that WSJ piece on Medicaid you’d regurgitated downstairs.

Point being that an insane number of people in this richest-country-on-Earth effectively live in poverty and qualify for such programs, due in no small part to conservative stupidity and with a healthy assist from a Constitution that structures our legislative process in a fundamentally undemocratic way.

We’re working to change that, but it will take awhile.

Later, all.

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I just hope that all the people that use these places have proof of citizenship on them because no self-respecting patriotic US citizen would dare to stoop so low as to go to one of these places for a handout, for free even. That is just the lowest thing a person can do is seek free health care. We should all go out of our way to try and pay as much as possible for the least amount of care, except at fast food restaurants but that’s different. It is the Republican way. So, all you Republicans out there need to get your tea bag signs and get to these places and picket to shut them down. We don’t need no government hands in our healthcare. So, get out there and spread the word. Besides, they might do abortions on little unwed pre-teens in these places in the middle of the night when everyone else has gone home too. So, you better stand guard at the places 24/7 with those picket signs just to be sure.

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Yeah George Bush, who the cons were willing to follow over the cliff for eight years, is now persona-non-grata. He wasn’t insane enough for them.

Gale you’re correct, but then we’d be following the British system, and we can’t have that. All that effeciency and decreased costs? We would much rather pay outrageous costs for inferior care. How else will insurance companies make money?

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I don’t care if they could handle 800 million people. The job of the damn government isn’t to provide “free” healthcare to it’s citizens. We can’t afford it.

Why is this so hard to understand.

And just because it’s already being done on a small scale doesn’t make it right.

We need to eliminate ALL social entitlement programs, starting with the illegal ponzi scheme known as Social Security, and work our way down from there.

If you guys want efficiency, let the insurance companies operate across state lines and open up to REAL competition.

Though I’m not sure what all the fuss is about…I can literally walk across the street right now and have a physical/blood test, and other screening done in less than an hour.

I’ve also never had to wait more than a few days for an appointment.

The real problem: a small, vocal minority of whiners trying ruin everything for the rest of us. I’m looking at you, Jay.

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Point being that an insane number of people in this richest-country-on-Earth effectively live in poverty

$87,000 per year income qualifies you for Schip.

Where will the liberal definition of poverty wind up at, before this reign of error is booted back to the rathole from whence it came, $250,000?

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Surely the Republicans are fighting to eliminate fed funding for these facilities even as we speak. They need to get the word out to their constituency and let them know where all of these places are located so they can plan their next round of tea parties. They should protest in their parking lots during business hours while people are waiting to get free help. FOXY news could even interview the people waiting to get free government help on their tax dime and ask them for their proof of citizenship. OReally could storm one of the doctor’s exam rooms and stick a mike in his or face and ask why they accept tax payer dollars to treat all these sick people that are just too lazy to work. Where are Beck and Limbaugh and Gingrich and Armey when we need them to expose this waste and fraud. Now, get out there and get in their faces, Republicans. Let your voices be heard and your faces seen coast to coast at every single one of these federal facilities. Do your patriotic duty, now!

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Always a pleasure to read your uplifting comments, NRB. I assume you like Andy spent yesterday in church?

Say what, no system is perfect. But there’s is better. I’ver never heard of anyone in Britain dying because of lack of insurance, 45,000 people do that in the US every year. I’ve never heard of anyone going bankrupt in Europe because of the cost of health care – upwards of 60% of bankruptcies in the US are because of health care.

And you, and I, and even the ever scowling NRB all pay for that.

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Give me a break. God, you people are absolutely worthless as human beings. You contribute nothing.

You need a hug, don’t you. hehehe

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ANOTHER FINE EXAMPLE OF GEORGE BUSH ABANDONING TRUE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES. BUSH SHOWA AGAIN THAT HE IS A RINO!!!

REAL CONSERVATIVES AND REAL AMERICANS KNOW THAT IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD THE BILL YOU SHOULD GO TO THYE DOCTOR!!!

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Normal,

Do you watch Dr. Oz. Maybe there are ways to work toward less dependence on drugs.

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Cherokee

Perhaps those in Britain aren’t dying because of “lack of health insurance”, however, many are dying BECAUSE of the health care system. That 5 lb bag of sugar already has 6 lbs being dumped in with a steady stream following. “Free” programs sound great, but how do you pay for them? I’ve read where Volvo makes the safest car in the world. Why not institute a program where every family is “given” a Volvo to curb collision injuries? I’ve heard claims that organic food is better for the human body. Why not “mandate” that organic foods be distributed to ALL Americans? I’ve heard where “Lucky Brand” jeans are muuuuuuucccccchhh better than those offered at Wal Mart. When can we expect the program that will have each person wearing the “better” jeans? At some point we have to accept the fact that life isn’t “fair”. Also, can you provide a universally acceptable definition of “fair”?

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80% of American workers EARN less in adjusted inflation dollars then they did in 1973!

You may want to check and see what effect illegal immigration has had on those numbers.

You know, the 50 million people from impoverished country’s that are willing to work for half of what a US citizen would.

Remember, the people you libs want to vote for you?

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Donovan…..And, your point is?

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Say What?

Yes, we all know that people live and die. We all know that people with more money can afford to spend more and we all know that some products are better than others and we all know that some things are considered fair by some and not by others. So, that is your argument for what? Eliminating speed limits and pollution regulations and laws and seat belts and taxes and… you could just move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free. After all, you do seem to be allergic to society. The change could do you good.

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“You may want to check and see what effect illegal immigration has had on those numbers.”

No, WHITE welcher, YOU might want to.

Then you can actually contribute something of value. You know, something factual to add to the discussion. Otherwise I’ll presume you have customary nothingness to “explain” that fact I’ve shared with you.

But who are we kidding here? You could no more find corroborating information than you could tell us how George W. Bush was a conservative.

I’ll await your “data”…

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For those wanting to mirror the U.K health system, here’s a few quotes from KaiserEdu:

The World Health Organization ranked the United Kingdom 18th in a comparison of health care systems across the world.

Health care coverage is provided to all legal residents of the United Kingdom. (please notice it does NOT coverl ILLEGAL aliens)

The percentage of the population who obtain private insurance, either through an employer or independently, increased in the 1980s due to the greater choice of specialists, avoidance of waiting lists and higher standards of comfort and privacy compared to the NHS.

With the aging of the baby-boom generation, there has been concern of NHS being insufficiently funded. Over the past five years, the government has increased taxes and health care spending to cover the cost of the aging population.

And we can expect just what from Obama’s socialized package?

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Taxpayer,

What are you trying to say? Where did I advocate eliminating pollution controls, easing seat belts, etc? You try so hard to eloquently pontificate that you begin to ramble on aimlessly. You really do like to hear yourself talk, don’t you?

“move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free”. No thank you. I do love National Parks and visit them often, however, I prefer to mingle in a society that presently embraces its sovereignty and capitalism. I love this democratic republic. Sadly, you and many others seem to embrace the concept of socialism. You can have your “govt takes care of me from the cradle to the grave”. I’ll keep mine as long as it exists.

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With this program in place why do we need health care reform? This program is being funded on the quiet, Bush doubled their budget & Congress is keeping the increases going. It appears that while everyone is pointing over here the money is being passed through the system over there. Continue reading.

HRSA is a part of HHS. Here is their FY 2010 numbers from their website.
“The FY 2010 President’s Budget request for HRSA is $7,126,700,000, a decrease of $107,736,000 below the FY 2009 Omnibus level.”

http://www.hrsa.gov/

From their website: “It is estimated that in FY 2010 approximately 19.8 million patients will receive access to high quality, comprehensive and cost-effective primary health care through HRSA’s Health Center program.”

From the WSJ articles Jay quotes from: “Former President George W. Bush doubled financing for the centers, bringing their number to 1,200 nationwide. President Barack Obama included $2 billion for them in his stimulus package, and a House bill would add $38 billion over a decade. That could double again the number of patients treated.”

I live in a small rural county & a clinic exist here.

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OK, NRB back up that NAFTA claim.

Show us the numbers to prove it. Show us that overpowering evidence. Show us your confident “analysis”. Show us what a intellectual stud you are.

NO! WHAT? REALLY?

You couldn’t do that in a hundred lifetimes? You’re grasping at straws? You have no clue what you are talking about and couldn’t corroborate that red herring if your life depended on it?

OK.

Life’s a real beeotch, for some, in this thing we call reality…

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Doggone/GA

Definition: socialized medicine: publicly administered system of national health care. The term is used to describe programs that range from government operation of medical facilities to national health-insurance plans.

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“Doctor” Jed,

I make no silly claims that that organization is perfect. FAR from it.

I just enjoy tweaking the noses and exposing the chickenhawks, the Aryan Brothers anti-government crowd and those here who have NO experiences whatsoever with that fine organization.

In ANY capacity – as a patient, staff member or volunteer.

On a scale of 1 to 10, they are a10 in my book. From the very beginning of my ordeal to this day, they, in my experience BLOW AWAY ANYTHING I have ever seen or even heard of in the “private sector”. It is not even a contest.

And I have countless examples to back up that claim.

And I do not suffer fools gladly when this topic comes up…

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“LEESBURG, Va. — Federally funded health centers, originally created to serve the poor, are seeing a surge of patients as more Americans struggle financially.”

Then create jobs! Create Jobs! Create more jobs! Changing healthcare does not fix the problem liberal, it just adds more government. I knew it would not take long to bring the children into healthcare debate. Anything goes for sympathy laws and legislation.

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To my buddy Brad Steel. If you think NAFTA didn’t have drawbacks, ant that Clinton was 100% correct, where’s the proof? After all, you’re calling people dumb. Just sayin….

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William

September 28th, 2009
9:33 am

Do you have any idea as to how to create those job? Jus’ askin’

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“Then we elect the most liberal, the most government centered person in the Senate by a majority of 52% of our electorate because he can talk the socks off a rooster and promise to change all of the things that the evil Bush has perpetrated on the American people.”

The most liberal???

Then you probably thought George W. Bush was a conservative in 2000!!!

They are both Corporatists.

The Uppity Muslim Sans a Birth Certificate works for the VERY same money masters that Georgie of the Bungle did. You are just too intentionally myopic to see it.

Welcome to the American oligarchy.

All you R & D party fools have done is to trade one Reign of Error for another…

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I can remember when I used to call Ronnie “Bozo”. I guess a good slur fits all, but it doesn’t show much originality…

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Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:21 am

I have had no problems with VA HC. I will be having surgery in the near future. Would you please share a nightmare story with me because I don’t know what to expect? ??????

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And it would also be nice to let us know whose definition of socialized medicine that is as well.

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“In total, NAFTA resulted in a net loss of 394,835 jobs in its first three years.

Even workers who found new jobs in the growing U.S. economy faced a reduction in wages, with average earnings dropping over 16% (Farber 1996). The new jobs created by NAFTA are most likely to be in the service industry-the source of 112% of net new jobs created in the U.S. since 1993-where average compensation is only 77% of manufacturing’s average (Mishel et al. 1997, 185).”

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/issuebriefs_ib120/

Suck on it. Losers.

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“Suck on it. Losers.”

I’ll make sure to pass on your sentiments to the Reagan Library and Papa Bush … you know, the ones who actually STRUCK the deal …

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USinUK

Struck the deal? How about SIGNED the deal…….Clinton. Please be sure to forward your sentiments on to his library.

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USinUK: if that makes you feel better go for it. But Clinton signed it into law, and caused hundreds of thousands of lost jobs and decreased wages across the board. Spin it all you want, but reality is right there in your ugly, yellow toothed face.

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“but reality is right there in your ugly, yellow toothed face.”

Such hate filled vomit.

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Food for thought.

If Britain’s health care system is so great, then why hasn’t it trickled over to their dental system? Have you ever met many Brits? I thought my teeth were bad, but mine are Hollywood ready compared to theirs.

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AmVet, I am delighted that you received such good care at your VA hospital….you deserve it in honor of your sacrifice for this country. Sadley, after working for 7 years at a large VA in a mid-Atlantic city, the incredibly inefficient and incompetent system promulgated and enforced by the VA in such a rigid manner caused me to leave. The tales I can tell….I would love to say the vets I cared for felt as you, I can confidently say that the vast majority don’t.

As for insinuating that I am not a “doctor”, I have no way to prove or disprove your slight, just as I can prove or disprove you being an “American Veteran”

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I made neither assertion. I asserted that what NRB said was funny in a retarded sort of way
————————————–

Keep backpedalin’…a little further….yep keep goin’….you’re almost to the cliff…

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Brad Steel

Speaking of pedantic pontificating, have you read many of the posts by “Taxpayer”?

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Big Smile –

“Struck the deal? How about SIGNED the deal…….Clinton. Please be sure to forward your sentiments on to his library.”

it’s a matter of priorities – most Brits here don’t put a priority on their dental hygiene, nothing to do with the NHS. it may have started during the war when most dentists were off fighting (you have people like my MIL who didn’t see a dentist until she was in her teens).

it’s definitely changing with folks my age and their kids – they all want “american teeth”

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Say What, “You seem to trash conservatives,”

No, I think you misread. I actually do trash neo-conservatives. Conservatives in the Republican Party (I presume that is who you refer to) are as scientifically provable as aliens.

“…then do you think the socialized healthcare package being pushed will actually SAVE the VA?”

I have no idea what you mean by this, but SAVE it from whom? I wasn’t aware it needed SAVING. (BTW an off-topic joke about “salvation”. I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, “I was born OK the firs time.”)

“I believe it will just be a matter of time before the VA hospitals are closed.”

Believe as you choose. I believe that is nonsense. Our glorious war machine is growing in stature, not shrinking.

I am not qualified to address the issue of, nor compare, the quality of care.

But I do know that Emory and the VAH on Clairemont have a very synergistic relationship. And that is to the benefit of everyone.

(Speaking of which, maybe one day again, the vast percentage of Americans will view Uncle Sam as the partner to the American people that he really is, not some big bogeyman.)

And I do know that the quality of service, regarding overall patient treatment at the VA, in all of its many aspects, is infinitely superior to that in ANY other comparable outfit I’ve ever heard of.

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d-oh! sorry, that post addressed “If Britain’s health care system is so great, then why hasn’t it trickled over to their dental system? Have you ever met many Brits?”

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Say What –

PAPA Bush, you numpty.

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So what’s next, USinUK, free crowns, veneers, dentures, braces et al for all Americans? That is “fair” isn’t it?

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Scooter, I would never prejudge or prejudice you based on your good care that you have received….I pray things go well for you. It serves you no good for me to place doubts in your head if you have had no problems. Perhaps your VA is administered in a superior manner. I only speak of my experiences from my 2 stints in the Mid-Atlantic (I did not practice in the Atlanta VAMC)

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Big Smile –

“So what’s next, USinUK, free crowns, veneers, dentures, braces et al for all Americans? That is “fair” isn’t it?”

ah. okay. you asked a question and I answered it. dental care isn’t free here – it’s subsidized by the NHS, but it isn’t free.

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
8:09 am

Squandering brings back memories of an individual I have promised not to mention.

The futrue is much brighter than it has been in some time:

DJIA 9,755.73 +90.54 +0.94%
NASDAQ 2,118.88 +27.96 +1.34%
S&P 500 1,055.86 +11.48 +1.10%

Stop fighting it and join us as we finally cross over into the 21st century.

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USinUK

Speaking of being a “numpty” (gee, how quaint), I mentioned BOTH Papa and Son Bush. Gave you options so you would have your ammo to blame them for anything you didn’t like that happened after 1980.

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Taxpayer 9:09 am
Eliminating speed limits and pollution regulations and laws and seat belts and taxes and… you could just move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free………

Talk about government intervention! Now Tax man or woman, you know the market will ‘right’ itself, whether it be speed limits, health care, or corporate America. You know those CEO’s have more than their selfish little selves in mind. No government intervention! Yep, we’d really be ‘drinking that free bubble up.’ Yes Siree.

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USinUK

Thanks for the clarification. So crowns (do gold ones count), veneers, braces, et all are “subsidized” by the govt. How about removal of those unsightly moles and skin tags? Are they “subsidized” as well?

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Say What –

“Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. ”

- snip –

In the U.S., Bush, who had worked to “fast track” the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing into law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the House of Representatives, Clinton introduced clauses intended to protect American workers and allay the concerns of many House members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafta

soooooo, sorry, bub, but, yeah – this was Bush’s baby … Clinton just got saddled with it.

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Say What –

“How about removal of those unsightly moles and skin tags? Are they “subsidized” as well”

visits to dermatologists are included in NHS care – you would have to go through a referral process through your GP (just like most private insurance in the US). if the doctor deems the mole to be malignant or dangerous, then, yes, it would definitely be removed. if it was jsut for cosmetic reasons, you would probably have to go private/pay cash for it.

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“Did the “national health insurance plan” not suffice as a definition for you?”

No…you still haven’t quoted any bill that proposes such a thing.

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With things like NAFTA as with any treaty or legislation, look for Republicans to REMOVE any aspect that protect citizens, workers, and so on. This is usually the case. Democrats have a long record of being better at handling the economy in a way that makes sure everyone gets a piece of the action. Republicans always attempt to hamstring that legislation with their aristocratic leanings with regard to “trickle down economics”. This asserts that someone those who are wealthy know the best way to handle the economy for everyone.

The last eight years have been another economic reminder that this is not the case.

The idea that a market bubble CANNOT somehow occur in the health industry is rather absurd, but what we have seen in the health industry in the last six month very much mirrors what went on in investment banking before the recent market crash. Prices going up, huge profits, and executives taking huge salary increases and even larger bonuses. Sound Familiar?

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Federally funded does not = federally operated, which is what Bookman appears to imply.

Sounds like these are a lot like the non-profits a lot of people on both sides of the aisle are proposing, but ultra-liberals (like Bookman) don’t like because it’s not a “true public option”

I also love how the ultra-lefties say things like “public option programs must rely on premiums, not taxpayers” when the actual overhead of many pieces of the program (like collecting the cash) will be absorbed by other agencies (like the Treasury Department) who ARE funded with taxpayer money.

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Say What??

“move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free”. No thank you. I do love National Parks and visit them often, however, I prefer to mingle in a society that presently embraces its sovereignty and capitalism. I love this democratic republic. Sadly, you and many others seem to embrace the concept of socialism. You can have your “govt takes care of me from the cradle to the grave”. I’ll keep mine as long as it exists.

I’m sure that you think that you have added something relevent to the discussion but you have not, as usual.

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The government run option would be funded by premiums, but many if not most of these premiums would be paid by the government. Kind of a no lose situation for the program, and a lose/ lose situation for those who actually pay tax.

And Jay keeps trying to imply that the reform plans will not give govt control of health care. However, if our government chooses to reform an institution, does that not mean they have taken control of that institution? Can a doctor or hospital say no thank you we have decided not to participate in the reform? Of course not. The fact that we are even discussing the government health care reform initative means they have control. It’s kind of like Chavez “reforming the oil industry” in Venezuala.

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Dr. Jed, please do come back from time to time, OK? I value your experience and sage input. No doubt, the lines for VA care are getting longer. MUCH longer. And more people are again going to start falling through the cracks. Again as a symptom of the botched BushCo Crusades.

This is a growing human tragedy that the Republican pro-war crowd refuses to see. They wave their flags and put ribbons on their vehicles but talk to them about escalating veteran suicides? Growing veteran homelessness? Rampant veteran psychological damage?

More anti-government flag waving will likely be the response.

NRB, congratulations!

You have joined a very select and growing list!

Included are Mike the Demander, Sunspot Dave, Dusty the Uber-patriot and too many drive-by cretins, mystery meats and others to recall.

And what do you share?

Ill-equipped to have cogent, civil discourses here, you fall back on what you do best. Childish insults and denying that any given service person who disagrees with you, ever raised his right hand and swore to defend the US Constitution and this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

That is a big part of why I chose this nom de blogue. To further expose the frauds and never-served, never-will cowards like yourself who claim to “Support the Troops”.

While in reality you really do not and likely never did…

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USinUK

Return thanks for chuckles. Speaking of spin, you still ignore the fact that clinton signed nafta. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see anyone holding a gun to his head to sign the bill.

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“Sunspot Dave”

sounds like a really cheesy do-wop group … Dave and the Sunspots …

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USinUK, a little Bob Seger tune for Davey from that killer Night Moves LP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlZ4OpuFEM

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Taxpayer,

By the way, how “relevant” and “adding to the discussion” was your 10:19 post?

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AmVet

We may disagree on many political issues, but Seger is one of my all time favorites. My young children have “Live Bullet” on their Ipods.

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“In total, NAFTA resulted in a net loss of 394,835 jobs in its first three years.

Wow. And, to think that it only took US businesses a half a month to top those numbers, thanks to the Republican’s total screwup of our economy. And, yes, NRB/Say what/kayaker/conservative family valued republican, Bush (and the republicans) did it. That’s why the republicans are not only the party of no, they are the party of losers. As in not in power. Keep up the good work. We truly appreciate it. hehehe.

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Say What??

By the way, how “relevant” and “adding to the discussion” was your 10:19 post?

Just the last sentence had any relevance. I thought I made that clear in that post though.

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AmVet –

I always liked Seger – I think it’s that great raspy voice of his (although, Like a Rock is one of my least favs because it was soooooo horribly overplayed) …
Night Moves is absolutely sublime … still, all these years later, a C-LASS-IC!

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OK, OK, one last fine Seger tune. (I promise.)

Ex-pat listen to all three of these later, OK?

Love that fuzzed guitar solo…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDM0lJX92Q

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LAINGSBURG, Mich. (AP) – Economically beleaguered Michigan faces a possible government shutdown – shuttering highway rest areas, state parks, construction projects and the state lottery

Not the lottery, no, mr. bill, no!

Gosh, I wonder what the socialists want to stop this from happening?

More of your money, hahahahaha, go figure.

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AmVet –

“OK, OK, one last fine Seger tune. (I promise.)”

you’re a mean man, AmVet! mean, I tell ya!

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NRB, don’t you have more paens to timothy McVeigh and/or Eric Rudolph that you need to compose and publsh?

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btw –

for anyone else who loves nature shows as much as I do (especially fishy things with big teeth):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/28/bbc-wildife-footage-online

“Chimpanzees ambushing and eating colobus monkeys, great white sharks leaping clean out of the ocean to catch their prey and the first footage of an entire snow leopard hunt are just some of the wonders of nature made available by the BBC as it opens up its vast archive of wildlife footage online today.

Over 500 video clips have been made available to view on the BBC’s website, along with audio and an introduction from Sir David Attenborough.”

(and it has David Attenborough, fercryingoutloud!!! my god, productivity is going to take a nosedive)

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Yeah, probably guilty as charged USinUK. But I do have my redeeming qualities as well!

In spite of the plethora of programming that falls into the oh-so-politically-incorrect label of Tard TV, we do have some great programs on now. PBS is airing a Ken Burns special on the National Parks. Stellar, of course. John Muir is undoubtedly one of the greatest Americans (Scottish born) to have ever lived.

Also, Discovery Channel’s Planet Earth and Blue Planet are both amazing. Educational and visually stunning.

I wonder if the anti-environmentalists hate these shows…

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USinUK

September 28th, 2009
10:06 am

The irony is G.H.W. Bush couldn’t have gotten it through Congress.

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AmVet

Watched the parks special last night. Loved it. Visited Yellowstone in the past and it was great. Hope to get to Yosemite in the near future.

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So far it appears that almost everything that can be said about this issue has been posted, re-posted, refuted, and/or supported with facts.

So in the spirit of posting something more interesting and certainly closer to home (Georgia), try this: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8677408

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Brunooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

(I just love your name)

hey bubba!

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N-GA

Wow, what an objective piece of legislation by ABS NEWS. Hmmmm, two Republican Senators were taken to play golf. Holy cow, stop the press!!

I wonder if ABS News is looking into the financial dealings of Democrat Charlie Rangel (tax fraud) or how Barney “humping my male page” Frank profited from Fannie (how appropriate) Mae and Freddie Mac?

Wonder which representatives actually benefitted more? Hmmmm. I’m sure CBS could bring back Dan Rather to do another objective piece of journalism.

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Bosch –

“lot of “ooooooooooooo” moments”

I hope you mean “oooooo” as in ooooo-aaaaa-fireworks and not as in Oh-face …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6UPR3OdroY

(if you do mean the latter … well … mazel tov!)

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Here’s what it really looks like

Warning: not for the squeemish!

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Say What??: That post was written by none other than Paul Craig Roberts, Secretary of the Treasury under President Ronald Reagan. Maybe he knows something you don’t.

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Soothsayer

Your 11:25 post sinks to a new low. Many libs would not sink to your level, but whatever supports your point of view is okay, right?

The family of that brave soldier, when confronted with the picture, specifically requested it NOT be published. They were against it because it was THEIR child and they didn’t want it to be used for political purposes. I suppose libs such as yourself not only know “what’s best for us” when it comes to taxes, healthcare, and such, but apparently you now know what’s best for a family who has had to endure the loss of a loved one. Your arrogance is equally amazing and disgusting.

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Bruno,

“As a supporter of single-pay, what is your opinion of the proposed mandatory purchase of insurance which will do nothing but perpetuate the waste and fraud?”

Not to speak for USinUK, but I can say as a supporter of the single-pay, I think the mandatory purchase of insurance is stupid – for it does nothing to address the core of the problem which is cost, and waste.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And USinUK,

Fireworks “ooooooo — ahhhhhhh” definitely. Does that program show the giant pile of bat poop?

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N-GA

Actually I play a pretty mean game of golf and believe I could beat either of those politicians. Nothing really to learn there.

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You socialists enjoy yourselves for the rest of the day. Soothsayer’s posts got me in the mood for some golf. Think I’ll go for the full 18 holes. Just remember this:

O ne
B ig
A ss
M istake
A merica

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Seeya later, Say What.

And remember, long and straight!

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Bosch –

“Fireworks “ooooooo — ahhhhhhh” definitely. Does that program show the giant pile of bat poop?”

I think you’re thinking of Dirty Jobs (I love that show)

AmVet –

“Are you one of the MOTs? If so, Tsom Kal…”

while I’ve dated a few MOTs and worked with loads of MOTs when I lived in DC, I’m not one myself … (I’m a member of the world’s largest religion – Lapsed Catholic)

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Jay you are so consumed with Obama. Why don’t you spend more time dealing with issues on a local level? Or are you trying to be a mini-Cynthia. There is an article today about sex offenders have no place to live due to the 1000 foot law. One of these “SEX OFFENDERS” was 15 when his CRIME happened and that was attempted sex girl that was 12 and that was 19 years ago. Where is your outrage about this. The fact the no one in local our state government did anything to close down the city last Monday when roads and expressways were completely impassable. But it was business as usual! How many of the deaths could have been prevented if the city was shut down like it does when there is hardly any snow on the ground! If you are going to write about Obama why not have outrage that his supports are trying to indoctrinate school children! Your not an Obama cheerleader you’re suppose to be a journalist!

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To stem opposition to its wars, the War Department hides signs of American casualties from the public. Angry that evidence escaped the censor, the War Secretary and the American Legion attacked with politically correct jargon: “insensitive,” “offended,” and the “anguish,” “pain and suffering” inflicted upon the Marine’s family. The War Department sounds like it is preparing a harassment tort.

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
11:40 am

I’ll take that bet.

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
11:42 am

I’m surprised it’s that high considering all the misrepresentation, which isn’t needed since it’s a bad bill.

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Andy said, rather ungrammatically:

$87,000 per year income qualifies you for Schip.

Where will the liberal definition of poverty wind up at

GA’s SCHIP program doesn’t include 87K income earners (not that I would have a problem if it did, but it doesn’t.)

Also, SCHIP wasn’t designed to cover those living in “poverty” but rather for those “who do not qualify for Medicaid and live in households with incomes at or below 235% of the federal poverty level.”

(Obviously, most regulars to these comments threads know to never bet the farm on Andy’s numbers, but I figured I probably ought to clear that up.)

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The point that many have offered is that a great deal of time was spent reaching the state of health care as it exists in the country. Transforming what exists in 5-6 months is unacceptable to those adults who realize they will have any new system the remainder of their lives. Do not offer any rebuttal for rushing to get something in place until it can be read, thought over, debated, and then voted up or down. The truth is that many ideas have been proposed to date, some were almost totally unacceptable to most people, others contained several things unacceptable to most people, no one plan offered was acceptable to most people. Either remodel health care in a fashion acceptable to most people or leave it alone. A note: recent studies have indicated that multitasking results in none of the tasks being accomplished well. The President is attempting to multitask problems that other equally competent people have been unable to complete in a lifetime. The Big O needs to select his problem to solve, delegate authority for the others, and really devote most of his attention to that problem. If he continues to overexpose himself by far too many public and private appearances and pronouncements he risks becoming totally irrelevant as wss the boy who called wolf.

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I thought you guys didn’t want to cover illegals.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/28/liberals-seek-health-care-access-for-illegals/

So much for that…The truth comes out.

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Bruno –

“Obviously, I’ve never been faced with a catastrophic situation, but the reality is that most health care policies are STILL inadequate when faced with bills totaling $1,000,000 or more”

I agree – even when you’re talking about being responsible for 20% of a bill bill for $50,000 or more for a horrific car accident, $10,000 would still break a lot of families.

The biggest strain for most families is prescriptions – even people who have insurance have out-of-pocket costs of $100 or more for necessary ’scripts. There was a story a year or so ago about people who stretched their chemo meds (by taking 1 a day instead of 2) because they couldn’t afford to take them as the doctor prescribed.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/06/10/medicare-costs-for-cancer-treatment-soar.html

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Transforming what exists in 5-6 months is unacceptable

I’ve heard some reasonable objections to what’s being proposed, but that it’s happening too gosh-darn fast isn’t one of them. It’s not been debated for 5-6 months, it’s been debated since the 40s.

Also, among the many beefs I have with the watered-down slop being negotiated so’s to ingratiate ConservaDems is that none of this takes effect for years.

If it’s really so all-fired wrong for American, you’d have plenty of time to adjust and even stop these measures.

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“What happens then? People refuse to buy coverage (= pay into the system) until they need it, knowing they can’t be refused for being sick. Then they buy it when they’re sick or injured, and the insurance companies pay out way more than they take in and go bankrupt.”

You and Jay may think that this is one more good reason to support ObamaCare, but I see it as one more reason NOT to support the mandated purchase of insurance. The fact that the proposed system can be “gamed” so easily should be cause for alarm to begin with. Rather than resorting to Draconian fines, why not engineer a reliable system from the gitgo?

From the way I see it, medical bills come in different sizes. For small to medium range bills, say less than $10,000, the simplest, most cost-efficient way to pay is directly out-of-pocket (or through a payment plan if necessary). Sliding scale payments could be arranged for the poor. Because the consumer is directly involved with the transaction, 90% of the waste and fraud will be eliminated immediately.

For catastrophic bills, those costs have to ultimately be shared by all of us one way or another. As such, we might as well be honest about the situation and consider a “single-payer” system for bills exceeding a certain level. In that way, we are all automatically “enrolled” with no policing and fines necessary.

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Can’t say it’s surprising, but it seems Big Tobaccky was apparently funding Betsy McCaughey’s concern-trolling against “hillarycare” back in the day.

During the debate over Clinton’s health care overhaul in the early 1990s, McCaughey — then an academic at the right-wing Manhattan Institute — wrote an article for The New Republic called “No Exit,” in which she claimed that Hillarycare would prevent even wealthy Americans from “going outside the system to purchase basic health coverage you think is better.” Even though the bill plainly stated that “nothing in this Act” would prohibit consumers from purchasing additional care, McCaughey’s claim was echoed endlessly in the press, with each repetition pounding a stake further into the heart of the reform effort.

“Worked off-the-record with Manhattan and writer Betsy McCaughey as part of the input to the three-part exposé in The New Republic on what the Clinton plan means to you. The first part detailed specifics of the plan.”

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Big Smile@9:48 – I would like to think I have compassion for my fellow man(choice word-think),but that compassion is really being tested. I must admit I wonder when the FREE rides will end. Will it stop with Health Care? Why should it? If not, then why not offer FREE dental,auto,home,land,business,etc insurance. Why do we have to pay for food,gas,utilities,vehicle payments,mortages,the list can go on and on.When will enough taxes be enough taxes? When do people take responsibilty for they’re own lives? Charity for the poor,in my mind should be elective not a requirement. When will we hold Govmnt accountable for waste,corruption,and mis-management of OUR monies? When will the American people be able to TRUST our elected officials? When will our elected officials ever work together to do do the people’s work? The people on this and countless other blogs proove that trust is a major obstacle,and the thought of an agenda is always in the back of alot people minds. This once proud and great nation is on a major down slope,I just hope we the people don’t ruin it for future generations. Cheesey thoughts I know

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Arkansas Sen. Blanche Lincoln has run two successful Senate campaigns on pledges to expand and improve health insurance coverage.

Eighteen Democratic Senate seats are up for election next year, and most had been considered relatively safe — until Obama’s push to reform the health care system energized conservative activists and turned independent voters into skeptics.-Politico

hehehehe, send her to the old RINO home.

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So now that I’ve told you that I don’t much care if some states offer SCHIP to families with incomes above GA’s 51K limit, Whiner replies with… well nothing, actually. Copy/paste of a fellow whiner who is whining.

Have you bothered to check to see exactly where (and even if?) such income levels are permitted?

Might they be in, say, the NYC metro area, where median rental for a two (2) bedroom apartment is $1,751/month?

Come on, Andy, put a little effort into this. It’s like you don’t really care about getting spanked yet again in 2010. Think of the little indoctrinated children!

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“You know, the 50 million people from impoverished country’s that are willing to work for half of what a US citizen would.”

And produce twice as much.

And be on time.

And not answer the cell phone every 15 mins.

And not need every other day off for probation appts, dr office, etc…

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“if you feel you can help, I encourage you to try.”

I’ve offered two solutions which make sense to me:

(1) Capitalistic Solution: Return health care insurance to its rightful place as protection against catastrophic loss ( $10,000 deductible or more) and pay for routine care out-of-pocket in the same way that we pay for other necessities of life out-of-pocket such as food and transportation.

(2) Socialistic Solution: Move to a full-blown single-payer system ala Britain or Canada.

“They’re constantly chirping about their great ideas now, and pleading not to be shut out of the debate, but they’d have a lot more cred if they had cared when they had the opportunity to do something.”

I guess you have two choices then: Either look for reasonable solutions from whichever political corner they come from, or allow your political feelings make all your decisions for you. If you choose the latter, you will find a lot of company here on Jay’s blog.

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Hef,

“I must admit I wonder when the FREE rides will end. Will it stop with Health Care? Why should it? If not, then why not offer FREE dental,auto,home,land,business,etc insurance. Why do we have to pay for food,gas,utilities,vehicle payments,mortages,the list can go on and on.”

Really? I took you as smarter than to fall into that trap.

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Well, how many times will Bookman hash and rehash this subject? It’s enough to make you SICK..Isn’t it time for Bookman to lay a few whacks on Palin again? Bush is so passe’. Hard to stir the pot with that one anymore.

By the way, Bookman is correct. Feds provide health care already. They surely do and they are GROWING! Did you see where there is a controversial pilot program in Virginia and Alabama to make VA HOSPITALS offer care to NON-vets right along with veterans? Yep, foot in the door. Use VA hospitals first.

Then regulate all “regular” hospitals into “everybody free” hospitals. Jack up funds for children, the elderly and then declare the “middles” either belong to some program or they get “charged for being illegal”. Voile’! You have socialized healthcare without even voting for it. EASY!! And send one half of your income to IRS.

Now, fight it out, you “always glued to your computer” experts and you “goof offs” at work.

Oh and THANKS, AmVet, for calling me an UBER-PATRIOT. That’s a real compliment. So much better than the politically correct UNDER-PATRIOT. Under cover that is, unrecognizable,. a condition well known to liberals. .

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“Well, how many times will Bookman hash and rehash this subject? It’s enough to make you SICK”

maybe it’s time you took some personal responsibility for your own health…and stopped coming here, since it makes you so sick. See…it’s EASY to manage your own health.

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USinUK he is on the editorial panel of the AJC a local paper. There are issue that are effecting the people of Atlanta TODAY 12,000 homes were flooded last Monday were his commentary on that?

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“Basic care is already available to anyone who asks for it, as was the topic of Jay’s Sunday column (though he “mistakenly” headlined the column to claim the opposite). ”

And it costs us all more because it’s an “outside the system” form of providing such care.

Personally, I think we’re eventually going to catch up to the rest of the “civilized” world and end up with single-provider healthcare…but right now it’s more a case of: “I must hurry up and catch them, because I am their leader”

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“I guess you have two choices then: Either look for reasonable solutions from whichever political corner they come from, or allow your political feelings make all your decisions for you.”

Actually, as a private citizen sans big wads of campaign-donation cash, I do not make legislative decisions, nor do any of my legislative representatives at any level give a hoot what I think, so my “feelings” are not pertinent to this debate. I can only encourage others to discuss their ideas and how to implement solutions, which I do regularly. Trust that **I** am not standing in the way of anyone’s good ideas.

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Say What??

Being called out for what you are kind of stings, doesn’t it?

Well, actually I have not called you out yet. Then again, I hardly see the need given that you have done such an excellent job of showing everyone what you really are.

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“I guess they think the last 2 elections were a fluke.”

No, a mistake that will soon be corrected.

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Once this nationalized healthcare is passed, when does it get implemented? I have heard next year and 2013…which is correct?

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Not only this when Republican attempt to compare disease cure rates of things like colon cancer, etc, they basically have to include the 90+ percent of those cure rates that are the result of Medicare, not private health insurance.

Problem is that Republicans are also fear mongering. Nothing in the current legislation closes hospitals at all. It relies totally on the private health care system. What it gets rid of is the useless element in the system, the private insurers. They do little to improve the heath care infrastructure at all. In fact its still the government that does that. 60 percent of all GOVERNMENT grant money goes to health research. Its not provided by the insurance companies.

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Hey Brad Steel,
You seem to have a thing for the word retarded. Have you ever considered how demeaning that word is to people with special needs? Plus, it does make you look like a try too hard to be cool 7th grader.

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We are country that was formed on the principle of law and not “mob rule”. Hence, the United States Constitution was drafted. Now I do not know about you, but I have read this document and am curious where in this document the executive and legislative branches are given the authority to take the property from those who have worked for it and give it to others who have not earned/worked for it such as the current debate on health care reform.

The Constitution provides for the rights and responsibilities of state governments and state officials in relation to the federal government. The federal government has certain express powers, including the right to levy taxes, declare war, and regulate interstate and foreign commerce. In addition, the “Necessary and Proper Clause” gives the federal government the implied power to pass any law “necessary and proper” for the execution of its express powers. Powers that the Constitution does not delegate to the federal government or forbid to the states – the reserved powers – are reserved to the people or the states.

Now with regards to expressed powers, when you read Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution provides the legislative branch (congress) with the power to: lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; borrow money on the credit of the United States; regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States; coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures; provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States; establish post offices and post roads; promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court; define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations; declare war, grant letters of marquee and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; provide and maintain a navy; make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings; and, make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Whereas Article 2, Section 2 provides the executive branch (president) with the powers to: select judges and other members of the government; make treaties with other nations; pardon criminals; have a Cabinet for assistance; and, to be Commander-in-chief of the armed forces and of the militia (National Guard) of all the states. Article 2, Section 3 establishes the following duties for the President: provide a state of the union address; make suggestions to Congress; act as head of state by receiving ambassadors and other heads of state; and, ensure that laws of the United States are carried out.

No where in either of these articles, or any of the other of the articles or amendments to the U.S. Constitution, does it allow our executive or legislative branches to seize the property from one individual and give it to another (other) despite the need of the other individual. Somewhere along our history our legislative branch has decided that the word charity (benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity; generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering; aid given to those in need) is somewhere mentioned in the Constitution. This current crop of politicians are taking away more of our, and our children’s, property and freedoms than any other group in U.S. history – all based on a lie.

Fellow citizens, our fore fathers took a risk of forfeiture of property and life so we can have the ability to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are not entitled with these rights at the expense of others – we have to earn them.

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