Feds can’t provide health care … except they do

Under bills being considered in the House and Senate, federal intervention into health care would be much less intrusive than conservative critics prefer to pretend. The much-maligned public insurance option, for example, would be required by law to operate on the insurance premiums it generates from the marketplace and could not rely on taxpayers’ money. Likewise, there is no mechanism by which the government could dictate medical practices.

However, more direct examples of federal involvement in health care do exist already, as the Wall Street Journal points out:

LEESBURG, Va. — Federally funded health centers, originally created to serve the poor, are seeing a surge of patients as more Americans struggle financially.

The centers are on track to handle more than 20 million patients this year, up by more than two million from last year and twice the figure of a decade ago, according to surveys by the National Association of Community Health Centers.

“They’re seeing lines out the door,” said the association’s research director, Michelle Proser.

On a recent afternoon at the Loudoun County Community Health Center here, patients came in at a rate of one every two minutes. Operating chief Stephanie Kenyon said the waiting list has jumped to 500 from 20 in a few months. Some of the new patients are college-educated and, until recently, held jobs that put them in the middle class.

By conservative theory, such federal clinics should not exist and could not operate effectively if they did exist. But as the WSJ story points out, funding for the clinics doubled under that socialist George Bush, and the clinics deliver basic health care much more efficiently than private clinics.

They’re also swamped by patients unable to get care through the standard health-care delivery system, which rations the treatment it provides based on the patient’s ability to pay.

226 comments Add your comment

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
8:09 am

federal intervention into health care would be much less intrusive than conservative critics prefer to pretend.-bookman

Democrats want to use Medicaid to cover everyone up to at least 133% of the federal poverty level, or about $30,000 for a family of four. Starting in 2014, Mr. Baucus plans to spend $287 billion through 2019—or about one-third of ObamaCare’s total spending—to add some 11 million new people to the Medicaid rolls.-WallStreetJournal

What is more “intrusive” then squandering away the future of our country?

TW

September 28th, 2009
8:09 am

Aw, c’mon Jay – you and your facts…and your research…and your thinking…

way unfair…

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
8:11 am

How long before the conservative Republicans have to disown Bush for this one too. Well, they still have his war mongering to fall back on.

stands for decibels

September 28th, 2009
8:16 am

Andy @ 8.09, I’ll just say this and get back to something/someone(s) useful–you’ve missed the salient point of that WSJ piece on Medicaid you’d regurgitated downstairs.

Point being that an insane number of people in this richest-country-on-Earth effectively live in poverty and qualify for such programs, due in no small part to conservative stupidity and with a healthy assist from a Constitution that structures our legislative process in a fundamentally undemocratic way.

We’re working to change that, but it will take awhile.

Later, all.

Gale

September 28th, 2009
8:19 am

And if the clinics work, why should we not create many more?

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
8:20 am

I just hope that all the people that use these places have proof of citizenship on them because no self-respecting patriotic US citizen would dare to stoop so low as to go to one of these places for a handout, for free even. That is just the lowest thing a person can do is seek free health care. We should all go out of our way to try and pay as much as possible for the least amount of care, except at fast food restaurants but that’s different. It is the Republican way. So, all you Republicans out there need to get your tea bag signs and get to these places and picket to shut them down. We don’t need no government hands in our healthcare. So, get out there and spread the word. Besides, they might do abortions on little unwed pre-teens in these places in the middle of the night when everyone else has gone home too. So, you better stand guard at the places 24/7 with those picket signs just to be sure.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
8:30 am

Cherokee

September 28th, 2009
8:31 am

Yeah George Bush, who the cons were willing to follow over the cliff for eight years, is now persona-non-grata. He wasn’t insane enough for them.

Gale you’re correct, but then we’d be following the British system, and we can’t have that. All that effeciency and decreased costs? We would much rather pay outrageous costs for inferior care. How else will insurance companies make money?

Curious Observer

September 28th, 2009
8:34 am

In a piece of ludicrous irony, the only figure standing in the way of the use of the reconciliation procedure to push through a bill containing the public option in the Senate is Sen. Robert C. Byrd–yes, the same Robert C. Byrd the conservatives on this blog love to denigrate because of his youthful membership in the KKK. Byrd still has enough clout to prevent the Democrats from using reconciliation to pass a bill containing the public option. In even further irony, those who favor the public option are left to hope for Byrd’s demise before the end of this year, so that he can be replaced by an appointed senator who favors the public option. Those who hate both him and the public option must wish Byrd a long life. Sometimes politics is more absurd than pure fiction.

NRB

September 28th, 2009
8:36 am

I don’t care if they could handle 800 million people. The job of the damn government isn’t to provide “free” healthcare to it’s citizens. We can’t afford it.

Why is this so hard to understand.

And just because it’s already being done on a small scale doesn’t make it right.

We need to eliminate ALL social entitlement programs, starting with the illegal ponzi scheme known as Social Security, and work our way down from there.

If you guys want efficiency, let the insurance companies operate across state lines and open up to REAL competition.

Though I’m not sure what all the fuss is about…I can literally walk across the street right now and have a physical/blood test, and other screening done in less than an hour.

I’ve also never had to wait more than a few days for an appointment.

The real problem: a small, vocal minority of whiners trying ruin everything for the rest of us. I’m looking at you, Jay.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
8:37 am

Cherokee,

Time to put the cap back on the glue bottle. You’ve been sniffing too long. Visit the link in my previous post to learn more about the “effeciency” and decreased costs of the British and other European healthcare systems. I’m sure they would welcome you to their ranks.

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
8:40 am

Point being that an insane number of people in this richest-country-on-Earth effectively live in poverty

$87,000 per year income qualifies you for Schip.

Where will the liberal definition of poverty wind up at, before this reign of error is booted back to the rathole from whence it came, $250,000?

NRB

September 28th, 2009
8:42 am

Point being that an insane number of people in this richest-country-on-Earth effectively live in poverty and qualify for such programs, due in no small part to conservative stupidity and with a healthy assist from a Constitution that structures our legislative process in a fundamentally undemocratic way.
=======================================

Yeah, heaven forbid that people are free and allowed to keep what they earn….and that everyone has to pull their own weight instead of dragging the rest of society down by being a freeloader and a leech.

You must be talking about the “poor” people that I see walking around with cell phones, and watching MTV all day…the ones who are so poor and can’t afford food that they’re morbidly obese. Yeah those people have it so much harder than REAL poor people, in say…Uganda or Vietnam.

Give me a break.

God, you people are absolutely worthless as human beings. You contribute nothing.

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
8:44 am

Surely the Republicans are fighting to eliminate fed funding for these facilities even as we speak. They need to get the word out to their constituency and let them know where all of these places are located so they can plan their next round of tea parties. They should protest in their parking lots during business hours while people are waiting to get free help. FOXY news could even interview the people waiting to get free government help on their tax dime and ask them for their proof of citizenship. OReally could storm one of the doctor’s exam rooms and stick a mike in his or face and ask why they accept tax payer dollars to treat all these sick people that are just too lazy to work. Where are Beck and Limbaugh and Gingrich and Armey when we need them to expose this waste and fraud. Now, get out there and get in their faces, Republicans. Let your voices be heard and your faces seen coast to coast at every single one of these federal facilities. Do your patriotic duty, now!

Normal

September 28th, 2009
8:46 am

To me whhere it gets personal is not the healthcare, but the cost of the meds I need. I have good healthcare, my company pays my premiums and I pay for my wife’s but with the widow’s mite, I make, I can’t afford to buy all of the meds I need. Cost of living is costing me too dearly. I take meds for blood pressure, diabetes, and chlorestrol. I have chosen not to buy the latter because I need the money elsewhere and I figure (hope) that the lack of that med can be controled by diet, or will have the longest time frame before becoming hurtful to me.
Thankfully my wife doesn’t need meds yet but when she does, what then?

Cherokee

September 28th, 2009
8:48 am

Always a pleasure to read your uplifting comments, NRB. I assume you like Andy spent yesterday in church?

Say what, no system is perfect. But there’s is better. I’ver never heard of anyone in Britain dying because of lack of insurance, 45,000 people do that in the US every year. I’ve never heard of anyone going bankrupt in Europe because of the cost of health care – upwards of 60% of bankruptcies in the US are because of health care.

And you, and I, and even the ever scowling NRB all pay for that.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
8:49 am

One

Big

Ass

Mistake

America

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
8:50 am

Give me a break. God, you people are absolutely worthless as human beings. You contribute nothing.

You need a hug, don’t you. hehehe

Disgusted

September 28th, 2009
8:51 am

If you guys want efficiency, let the insurance companies operate across state lines and open up to REAL competition.

People on this blog reminded me when I first posted this that people like NRB would keep coming at us with their false argument about “operating across state lines.” Looks like they were right.

Insurance companies already operate across state lines, NRB. All that’s necessary for any legal reserve insurance company to operate in a state is to (1) receive approval for any policies and rates to be offered, (2)conform to state requirements for licensing agents and brokers, and (3) meet basic solvency tests.

Go to your Yellow Pages and look up the word insurance. There you’ll find a listing of just about every national major insurance company and some obscure ones. All have one thing in common: they’ve been approved by the state insurance commissioner to sell policies in this state. Every state has an insurance commissioner. The alternative to state regulation is federal regulation, and the latter applies only to policies that contain some element of equity-based products. Equities are always regulated at the federal level.

The point is that the old conservative bromide about “operating across state lines” is as phony as a three-dollar bill. You’ll find practically no difference in a company’s pricing for a product from one state to the other. Get another hobby horse to ride. This one’s broken down. Learn something about insurance before you proceed to lecture the rest of us.

GEORGE AMERICAN

September 28th, 2009
8:52 am

ANOTHER FINE EXAMPLE OF GEORGE BUSH ABANDONING TRUE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES. BUSH SHOWA AGAIN THAT HE IS A RINO!!!

REAL CONSERVATIVES AND REAL AMERICANS KNOW THAT IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD THE BILL YOU SHOULD GO TO THYE DOCTOR!!!

Doggone/GA

September 28th, 2009
8:52 am

I’m beginning to think that Asberger’s syndrome is FAR more common than we realize.

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
8:53 am

Normal,

Do you watch Dr. Oz. Maybe there are ways to work toward less dependence on drugs.

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
8:55 am

“…heaven forbid that people are free and allowed to keep what they earn.”

Holy shiite. What a laugh.

People like this NRB are just delusional fools whose never large minds are owned, lock, stock and barrel by the Republiconned bumper sticker ideology.

80% of American workers EARN less in adjusted inflation dollars then they did in 1973!

Yet their productivity has doubled.

Why do you think this is NRB?

Any clues?

Any ideas?

Anything?

Can you finally grasp how screwed we the people are?

Not that that even bothers you f’ed “fiscal conservatives” (LOL) for a single moment. You love the status quo!

And like a beaten inmate, you don’t even ask for any Vaseline…

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
8:56 am

Cherokee

Perhaps those in Britain aren’t dying because of “lack of health insurance”, however, many are dying BECAUSE of the health care system. That 5 lb bag of sugar already has 6 lbs being dumped in with a steady stream following. “Free” programs sound great, but how do you pay for them? I’ve read where Volvo makes the safest car in the world. Why not institute a program where every family is “given” a Volvo to curb collision injuries? I’ve heard claims that organic food is better for the human body. Why not “mandate” that organic foods be distributed to ALL Americans? I’ve heard where “Lucky Brand” jeans are muuuuuuucccccchhh better than those offered at Wal Mart. When can we expect the program that will have each person wearing the “better” jeans? At some point we have to accept the fact that life isn’t “fair”. Also, can you provide a universally acceptable definition of “fair”?

Donovan

September 28th, 2009
9:02 am

For those of you who are still under the spell of Obama pixie dust or need a 2X4 to the side of your head, I shall once again remind you of a few government run enterprises. How do you say…VA Hospital, Amtrack, U.S. Post Office, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, FEMA, Homeland Security Office, and the Viet Nam War Memorial Wall?

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
9:03 am

80% of American workers EARN less in adjusted inflation dollars then they did in 1973!

You may want to check and see what effect illegal immigration has had on those numbers.

You know, the 50 million people from impoverished country’s that are willing to work for half of what a US citizen would.

Remember, the people you libs want to vote for you?

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:05 am

Donovan, why don’t you explain to me your experiences with the Veterans Administration?

I’ll then give you my very extensive experiences with them.

Warning, unless you’ve got one helluva compelling personal story regarding them, I’m going to make you look like an uninformed fool.

Just saying…

jokerman

September 28th, 2009
9:06 am

Donovan…..And, your point is?

MaJo

September 28th, 2009
9:09 am

“The much-maligned public insurance option, for example, would be required by law to operate on the insurance premiums it generates from the marketplace and could not rely on taxpayers’ money.”

And it will take them how long to change that part of the law when it doesn’t work out?

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
9:09 am

Say What?

Yes, we all know that people live and die. We all know that people with more money can afford to spend more and we all know that some products are better than others and we all know that some things are considered fair by some and not by others. So, that is your argument for what? Eliminating speed limits and pollution regulations and laws and seat belts and taxes and… you could just move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free. After all, you do seem to be allergic to society. The change could do you good.

Taxpayer

September 28th, 2009
9:11 am

You know, the 50 million people from impoverished country’s that are willing to work for half of what a US citizen would.

Remember, the people you libs want to vote for you?

After all, who in their right mind would stoop to pick lettuce for $50/hr.

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:12 am

“You may want to check and see what effect illegal immigration has had on those numbers.”

No, WHITE welcher, YOU might want to.

Then you can actually contribute something of value. You know, something factual to add to the discussion. Otherwise I’ll presume you have customary nothingness to “explain” that fact I’ve shared with you.

But who are we kidding here? You could no more find corroborating information than you could tell us how George W. Bush was a conservative.

I’ll await your “data”…

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:14 am

80% of American workers EARN less in adjusted inflation dollars then they did in 1973!

Yet their productivity has doubled.

Why do you think this is NRB?
====================================

Bill Clinton signing NAFTA. Next question?

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:14 am

For those wanting to mirror the U.K health system, here’s a few quotes from KaiserEdu:

The World Health Organization ranked the United Kingdom 18th in a comparison of health care systems across the world.

Health care coverage is provided to all legal residents of the United Kingdom. (please notice it does NOT coverl ILLEGAL aliens)

The percentage of the population who obtain private insurance, either through an employer or independently, increased in the 1980s due to the greater choice of specialists, avoidance of waiting lists and higher standards of comfort and privacy compared to the NHS.

With the aging of the baby-boom generation, there has been concern of NHS being insufficiently funded. Over the past five years, the government has increased taxes and health care spending to cover the cost of the aging population.

And we can expect just what from Obama’s socialized package?

Doggone/GA

September 28th, 2009
9:19 am

“And we can expect just what from Obama’s socialized package?”

Nothing. No socialized package has been proposed.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:21 am

Taxpayer,

What are you trying to say? Where did I advocate eliminating pollution controls, easing seat belts, etc? You try so hard to eloquently pontificate that you begin to ramble on aimlessly. You really do like to hear yourself talk, don’t you?

“move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free”. No thank you. I do love National Parks and visit them often, however, I prefer to mingle in a society that presently embraces its sovereignty and capitalism. I love this democratic republic. Sadly, you and many others seem to embrace the concept of socialism. You can have your “govt takes care of me from the cradle to the grave”. I’ll keep mine as long as it exists.

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:21 am

AmVet, as a former surgeon who worked for the VA, I can tell you absolutely horrible stories of beaurocratic nightmares in trying to fight for patient care that would make your skin crawl…..just sayin…..

jconservative

September 28th, 2009
9:22 am

With this program in place why do we need health care reform? This program is being funded on the quiet, Bush doubled their budget & Congress is keeping the increases going. It appears that while everyone is pointing over here the money is being passed through the system over there. Continue reading.

HRSA is a part of HHS. Here is their FY 2010 numbers from their website.
“The FY 2010 President’s Budget request for HRSA is $7,126,700,000, a decrease of $107,736,000 below the FY 2009 Omnibus level.”

http://www.hrsa.gov/

From their website: “It is estimated that in FY 2010 approximately 19.8 million patients will receive access to high quality, comprehensive and cost-effective primary health care through HRSA’s Health Center program.”

From the WSJ articles Jay quotes from: “Former President George W. Bush doubled financing for the centers, bringing their number to 1,200 nationwide. President Barack Obama included $2 billion for them in his stimulus package, and a House bill would add $38 billion over a decade. That could double again the number of patients treated.”

I live in a small rural county & a clinic exist here.

Jackie

September 28th, 2009
9:23 am

Too many facts tend to give the so-called conservatives a headache.
Give them a glass of water, they will feel better.

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:25 am

OK, NRB back up that NAFTA claim.

Show us the numbers to prove it. Show us that overpowering evidence. Show us your confident “analysis”. Show us what a intellectual stud you are.

NO! WHAT? REALLY?

You couldn’t do that in a hundred lifetimes? You’re grasping at straws? You have no clue what you are talking about and couldn’t corroborate that red herring if your life depended on it?

OK.

Life’s a real beeotch, for some, in this thing we call reality…

Brad Steel

September 28th, 2009
9:25 am

We get this brilliant gem from NRB: Bill Clinton signing NAFTA. Next question?

Trying to blame Clinton, that’s funny. Retarded, but funny.

Why even respond to NBR. He’s like GEORGE AMERICAN on valium, except dumber.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:25 am

Doggone/GA

Definition: socialized medicine: publicly administered system of national health care. The term is used to describe programs that range from government operation of medical facilities to national health-insurance plans.

Kayaker 71

September 28th, 2009
9:30 am

Since the passing of a federal income tax by adopting the 16th Amendment in 1913, there has been a slow, relentless twisting of the liberal screws to get government more involved in our lives. This is a process that has taken a long time to come to fruition but relentless, none the less. We now work for the government until about mid May, depending on your bracket. We depend on 545 people out of a country of over 300M to make our decisions for us, spend our money and pass our laws. There is little doubt that, in the main,that they have done a piss poor job. A slow tightening of the screws….. There is no doubt that our lives have become a bit more complicated since 1913 but so has our runaway spending and our dependence on government for next to everything.
We are the last holdout in the world. There is no other like us…. anywhere. And something must appeal to all of those out there who live in socialistic, government controlled countries. The lines at our borders could not be longer for those less fortunate to share the American dream.
Then we elect the most liberal, the most government centered person in the Senate by a majority of 52% of our electorate because he can talk the socks off a rooster and promise to change all of the things that the evil Bush has perpetrated on the American people.
Our slow slide into a government controlled country has certainly gained speed since Bozo was elected if he is to have his way. We are the admiration of the world populations, the one who saves their ass when it needs saving and the one country who gives away more money to others than all of the other free nations combined. Before long, we will be working for the government until June, then July. Most everyone in Sweden pays a minimum of 55% of their income to the state. Is that where we are headed and is that what you want??

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:30 am

“Doctor” Jed,

I make no silly claims that that organization is perfect. FAR from it.

I just enjoy tweaking the noses and exposing the chickenhawks, the Aryan Brothers anti-government crowd and those here who have NO experiences whatsoever with that fine organization.

In ANY capacity – as a patient, staff member or volunteer.

On a scale of 1 to 10, they are a10 in my book. From the very beginning of my ordeal to this day, they, in my experience BLOW AWAY ANYTHING I have ever seen or even heard of in the “private sector”. It is not even a contest.

And I have countless examples to back up that claim.

And I do not suffer fools gladly when this topic comes up…

Ayn Rand Was Right

September 28th, 2009
9:31 am

We have a healthcare system for those who are without means…why do we need to put everyone in the same system at extreme cost, when we can better fund the current safety net???

William

September 28th, 2009
9:33 am

“LEESBURG, Va. — Federally funded health centers, originally created to serve the poor, are seeing a surge of patients as more Americans struggle financially.”

Then create jobs! Create Jobs! Create more jobs! Changing healthcare does not fix the problem liberal, it just adds more government. I knew it would not take long to bring the children into healthcare debate. Anything goes for sympathy laws and legislation.

Normal

September 28th, 2009
9:33 am

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:21 am

Every hospital has it’s horror stories, but as a veteran, I have had nothing but great help and support when I needed them. You could do a lot worse. VA helthcare would be a model I would support…jus’ sayin’
—————–
TAXPAYER…Dr. Oz???

Nail Aluminum

September 28th, 2009
9:33 am

To my buddy Brad Steel. If you think NAFTA didn’t have drawbacks, ant that Clinton was 100% correct, where’s the proof? After all, you’re calling people dumb. Just sayin….

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:34 am

Brad,

George American is funny. I like his satirical poutbursts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read Dan Brown’s new book yesterday – a pretty interesting read.

Normal

September 28th, 2009
9:34 am

William

September 28th, 2009
9:33 am

Do you have any idea as to how to create those job? Jus’ askin’

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
9:35 am

As long as a cheaper and more compliant pool of immigrant labor is available, employers are all too willing to take advantage of the situation to keep their labor costs down and are less willing to hire U.S.-born workers if they demand better wages and working conditions.-AFL/CIO/ Drum Major Institute

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:35 am

“Then we elect the most liberal, the most government centered person in the Senate by a majority of 52% of our electorate because he can talk the socks off a rooster and promise to change all of the things that the evil Bush has perpetrated on the American people.”

The most liberal???

Then you probably thought George W. Bush was a conservative in 2000!!!

They are both Corporatists.

The Uppity Muslim Sans a Birth Certificate works for the VERY same money masters that Georgie of the Bungle did. You are just too intentionally myopic to see it.

Welcome to the American oligarchy.

All you R & D party fools have done is to trade one Reign of Error for another…

Doggone/GA

September 28th, 2009
9:36 am

“Definition: socialized medicine: publicly administered system of national health care. The term is used to describe programs that range from government operation of medical facilities to national health-insurance plans”

How about some quotes from some bills pending in Congress that actually MEET that definition.

Normal

September 28th, 2009
9:37 am

I can remember when I used to call Ronnie “Bozo”. I guess a good slur fits all, but it doesn’t show much originality…

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:37 am

“Bill Clinton signing NAFTA. Next question?”

first of all, NAFTA started during the Reagan administration with the agreement with Canada. It was expanded to include Mexico by Papa Bush, it only crossed the finish line for Congressional approval and presidential signature during the Clinton administration. so, sorry, bubba, you may want to blame Clinton for it, but the deal was struck by republicans

secondly, NAFTA had eff-all to do with the off-shoring of call centers and computer programming to India or manufacturing to China.

try parroting another right-wing talking point … I’m in the mood for a little batting practice …

Scooter

September 28th, 2009
9:37 am

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:21 am

I have had no problems with VA HC. I will be having surgery in the near future. Would you please share a nightmare story with me because I don’t know what to expect? ??????

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:40 am

Bosch –

hey you! I hear the new DB book is basically a recycled DaVinci Code with Masons substituting for Catholics … ???

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:41 am

And it would also be nice to let us know whose definition of socialized medicine that is as well.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:41 am

AmVet

I don’t understand your last post. Who do you have your beef with? You seem to trash conservatives, but I’ve heard many many dems address their concerns over the VA system. Are you not angry with them as well? And if the VA is far superior to public hospitals, then do you think the socialized healthcare package being pushed will actually SAVE the VA? I have my doubts. If Obamacare comes to pass, I believe it will just be a matter of time before the VA hospitals are closed. I mena, why keep them open when “free” healthcare will be available at public hospitals? Closing the VAs might be viewed as a “cost saving” measure. I like the present system just fine.

I work with VAs and public hospitals. My experience has been that, for the most part, the same docs work at both public and VA hospitals and the VA hospitals have much (if not all) of the same equipment/technology. Most of what I’ve seen and heard is the quality of care in the post-op arena suffers in a VA. I have no personal experience, but am relying on nurses, doctors, techs, and some of the Vets I know.

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:41 am

“In total, NAFTA resulted in a net loss of 394,835 jobs in its first three years.

Even workers who found new jobs in the growing U.S. economy faced a reduction in wages, with average earnings dropping over 16% (Farber 1996). The new jobs created by NAFTA are most likely to be in the service industry-the source of 112% of net new jobs created in the U.S. since 1993-where average compensation is only 77% of manufacturing’s average (Mishel et al. 1997, 185).”

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/issuebriefs_ib120/

Suck on it. Losers.

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:42 am

“Then create jobs! Create Jobs! Create more jobs! Changing healthcare does not fix the problem liberal, it just adds more government.”

that’s right!!! because this meltdown has taught us nothing!!! it most DEFINITELY hasn’t taught us that health insurance that’s chained to employment is a great system (until it breaks)!!

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:43 am

“Suck on it. Losers.”

I’ll make sure to pass on your sentiments to the Reagan Library and Papa Bush … you know, the ones who actually STRUCK the deal …

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:43 am

Doggone/GA

Did the “national health insurance plan” not suffice as a definition for you?

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:45 am

USinUK

Struck the deal? How about SIGNED the deal…….Clinton. Please be sure to forward your sentiments on to his library.

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:45 am

USinUK,

Not to give anything away, but yes, there’s a lot of symbolic stuff – but if you liked the others, you’ll like this – there’s a couple really good plot twists, and I mean – come on – it’s the conspiracy theorists wet dream – we’re talking secret Washington D.C. stuff! I like this book, because unlike the DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons I have actually been to the places he talks about (never been to Italy). There’s a really good plot puzzle that Langdon has to figure out regarding the National Cathedral which made me laugh out loud. And the bad guy is super bad and creepy as hell.

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:46 am

USinUK: if that makes you feel better go for it. But Clinton signed it into law, and caused hundreds of thousands of lost jobs and decreased wages across the board. Spin it all you want, but reality is right there in your ugly, yellow toothed face.

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:47 am

As a hat tip to Mrs. G.,

“Did the “national health insurance plan” not suffice as a definition for you?”

There’s your sign!!!

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:48 am

“but reality is right there in your ugly, yellow toothed face.”

Such hate filled vomit.

Brad Steel

September 28th, 2009
9:48 am

Nail Aluminum queries: If you think NAFTA didn’t have drawbacks, ant (sic) that Clinton was 100% correct, where’s the proof?

I made neither assertion. I asserted that what NRB said was funny in a retarded sort of way, like when a blowhard shows his stupidity with pedantic pontificating. (RIP William Safire)

Big Smile

September 28th, 2009
9:48 am

Food for thought.

If Britain’s health care system is so great, then why hasn’t it trickled over to their dental system? Have you ever met many Brits? I thought my teeth were bad, but mine are Hollywood ready compared to theirs.

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:49 am

Well Bosch, I hate liberals, and I hate the government. So there you go. It’s not like you leeches deserve to be the recipient of good manners. You idiots are destroying the country.

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:49 am

AmVet, I am delighted that you received such good care at your VA hospital….you deserve it in honor of your sacrifice for this country. Sadley, after working for 7 years at a large VA in a mid-Atlantic city, the incredibly inefficient and incompetent system promulgated and enforced by the VA in such a rigid manner caused me to leave. The tales I can tell….I would love to say the vets I cared for felt as you, I can confidently say that the vast majority don’t.

As for insinuating that I am not a “doctor”, I have no way to prove or disprove your slight, just as I can prove or disprove you being an “American Veteran”

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:50 am

SayWhat and NRB –

“Struck the deal? How about SIGNED the deal…….Clinton. Please be sure to forward your sentiments on to his library.”

sorry, guys – like all international agreements, by the time it comes to Congress, it’s already a done deal, signed by the leaders who struck the agreement (in this case, Bush, Salinas and Mulrooney).

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:51 am

I made neither assertion. I asserted that what NRB said was funny in a retarded sort of way
————————————–

Keep backpedalin’…a little further….yep keep goin’….you’re almost to the cliff…

Get an Education

September 28th, 2009
9:51 am

The govt is about to mandate that all must pay for health insurance or face penalties and fines. If they continue to ignore the mandate, there will be prison time. And you make the case that this would be less intervention than we’re currently experiencing????

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:51 am

Brad Steel

Speaking of pedantic pontificating, have you read many of the posts by “Taxpayer”?

NRB

September 28th, 2009
9:52 am

AmVet, I am delighted that you received such good care at your VA hospital….you deserve it in honor of your sacrifice for this country.
———————————————–
You do know that this retard faked an injury to get out of war, right? He’s also claiming disability because he’s too lazy to work, so he sits there off the government teat and pretends to limp around when he’s out getting the mail checking on his welfare money. Don’t pay attention to him.

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:52 am

Big Smile –

“Struck the deal? How about SIGNED the deal…….Clinton. Please be sure to forward your sentiments on to his library.”

it’s a matter of priorities – most Brits here don’t put a priority on their dental hygiene, nothing to do with the NHS. it may have started during the war when most dentists were off fighting (you have people like my MIL who didn’t see a dentist until she was in her teens).

it’s definitely changing with folks my age and their kids – they all want “american teeth”

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:53 am

USinUK

Baaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Still finding a way to blame a Bush? We had floods in Georgia last week. Just how will you blame that on George the 1st or George the 2nd?

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
9:53 am

Say What, “You seem to trash conservatives,”

No, I think you misread. I actually do trash neo-conservatives. Conservatives in the Republican Party (I presume that is who you refer to) are as scientifically provable as aliens.

“…then do you think the socialized healthcare package being pushed will actually SAVE the VA?”

I have no idea what you mean by this, but SAVE it from whom? I wasn’t aware it needed SAVING. (BTW an off-topic joke about “salvation”. I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, “I was born OK the firs time.”)

“I believe it will just be a matter of time before the VA hospitals are closed.”

Believe as you choose. I believe that is nonsense. Our glorious war machine is growing in stature, not shrinking.

I am not qualified to address the issue of, nor compare, the quality of care.

But I do know that Emory and the VAH on Clairemont have a very synergistic relationship. And that is to the benefit of everyone.

(Speaking of which, maybe one day again, the vast percentage of Americans will view Uncle Sam as the partner to the American people that he really is, not some big bogeyman.)

And I do know that the quality of service, regarding overall patient treatment at the VA, in all of its many aspects, is infinitely superior to that in ANY other comparable outfit I’ve ever heard of.

Chris Salzmann

September 28th, 2009
9:53 am

Say What?? September 28th, 2009 9:14 am SAID: For those wanting to mirror the U.K health system, here’s a few quotes from KaiserEdu: The World Health Organization ranked the United Kingdom 18th in a comparison of health care systems across the world. Health care coverage is provided to all legal residents of the United Kingdom. (please notice it does NOT coverl ILLEGAL aliens). The percentage of the population who obtain private insurance, either through an employer or independently, increased in the 1980s due to the greater choice of specialists, avoidance of waiting lists and higher standards of comfort and privacy compared to the NHS.
With the aging of the baby-boom generation, there has been concern of NHS being insufficiently funded. Over the past five years, the government has increased taxes and health care spending to cover the cost of the aging population. And we can expect just what from Obama’s socialized package?

CHRIS SAYS: All well and good but we aren’t heading towards the United Kingdom’s NHS model or the Canadian model. BTW, another interesting fact by KaiserEdu is that employer funded health care insurance will cost employers an average of over $28,000 per employee in 10 years, an amount it states is unsustainable.

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:53 am

d-oh! sorry, that post addressed “If Britain’s health care system is so great, then why hasn’t it trickled over to their dental system? Have you ever met many Brits?”

Bosch

September 28th, 2009
9:54 am

” I hate liberals, and I hate the government”

Such hate filled vomit.

Please remember, Jesus loves you.

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:54 am

Say What –

PAPA Bush, you numpty.

Gordon

September 28th, 2009
9:54 am

Jay,

How do you explain the financial condition of Medicare and Medicaid, which are the closest thing we have to massive government involvement in health care? We don’t have to argue about this, we have results we can look at. Obama uses the savings from “waste, fraud, and abuse” of one government program to try to pay for an even bigger one.

Social Security is required to operate only what it takes in. Up to now, it has. But in a very short time, income will not equal outlays, and the accounting mechanism known as the social security trust fund will have to cover the difference. Benefits will be cut (means testing, raising the age, etc.) as a result.

Government should regulate, not participate.

Big Smile

September 28th, 2009
9:55 am

So what’s next, USinUK, free crowns, veneers, dentures, braces et al for all Americans? That is “fair” isn’t it?

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:56 am

Bosch –

“Such hate filled vomit.”

oh, man … not again … I just had the carpets shampooed …

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
9:56 am

Scooter, I would never prejudge or prejudice you based on your good care that you have received….I pray things go well for you. It serves you no good for me to place doubts in your head if you have had no problems. Perhaps your VA is administered in a superior manner. I only speak of my experiences from my 2 stints in the Mid-Atlantic (I did not practice in the Atlanta VAMC)

theboogins

September 28th, 2009
9:57 am

You’re right Bookman, “W” was a lot closer to being a socialist than a conservative.
JB

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
9:57 am

Big Smile –

“So what’s next, USinUK, free crowns, veneers, dentures, braces et al for all Americans? That is “fair” isn’t it?”

ah. okay. you asked a question and I answered it. dental care isn’t free here – it’s subsidized by the NHS, but it isn’t free.

Say What""

September 28th, 2009
9:57 am

Enter your comments here

TnGelding

September 28th, 2009
9:58 am

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 28th, 2009
8:09 am

Squandering brings back memories of an individual I have promised not to mention.

The futrue is much brighter than it has been in some time:

DJIA 9,755.73 +90.54 +0.94%
NASDAQ 2,118.88 +27.96 +1.34%
S&P 500 1,055.86 +11.48 +1.10%

Stop fighting it and join us as we finally cross over into the 21st century.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
9:58 am

Chris Salzmann

I either missed your point or your missed mine. I am NOT endorsing the UK healthcare system. I was trying to point out the flaws of a govt run system.

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
10:02 am

USinUK

Speaking of being a “numpty” (gee, how quaint), I mentioned BOTH Papa and Son Bush. Gave you options so you would have your ammo to blame them for anything you didn’t like that happened after 1980.

AmVet

September 28th, 2009
10:03 am

Jed, thank you for your story. I was overly dubious of your claimed credentials. It would appear needlessly so. My apologies.

Again, I KNOW about the numerous clusterf&cks regarding the VA. One would have had to live under a rock not to know. And as a veteran involved in several supporting organizations, I cringe every single time there is some embarrassment with them.

BUT, in light of their mission and in light of the deluge of new patients (thanks war first, war last, war always neo-cons) and in light of their ever present job of fighting for enough dollars, I still contend they do a helluva job.

And the irrefutable fact is that an overwhelming number of other veterans agree with me.

As evidenced by this article among countless others like it:

VA System a Model for Health Care, Experts Say

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/21/1570-a

Morningstar

September 28th, 2009
10:04 am

Taxpayer 9:09 am
Eliminating speed limits and pollution regulations and laws and seat belts and taxes and… you could just move out into a desolate spot in the middle of a national forest and live free………

Talk about government intervention! Now Tax man or woman, you know the market will ‘right’ itself, whether it be speed limits, health care, or corporate America. You know those CEO’s have more than their selfish little selves in mind. No government intervention! Yep, we’d really be ‘drinking that free bubble up.’ Yes Siree.

Jedidiah

September 28th, 2009
10:04 am

I can say this AmVet, now that I am practicing private practice in Metro Atlanta, I do see patients on a monthly basis who come to see me either out or pocket or by way of benefits from the spouse b/c the local VA won’t/don’t have the capability/or treatment is markedly delayed as to potentially cause adverse outcome.

I don’t agree with Jay on much…..but he is right about one thing. Rationing is already here and will definitely get worse. The question is this….do you want the governement or the private sector to do it? I suppose that would be based on your politics……

OK, back to work…..later

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
10:04 am

USinUK

Thanks for the clarification. So crowns (do gold ones count), veneers, braces, et all are “subsidized” by the govt. How about removal of those unsightly moles and skin tags? Are they “subsidized” as well?

Normal

September 28th, 2009
10:05 am

Say What??

September 28th, 2009
10:02 am
Gave you options so you would have your ammo to blame them for anything you didn’t like that happened after 1980.
—————
Works for me… :-)

USinUK

September 28th, 2009
10:06 am

Say What –

“Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. ”

- snip –

In the U.S., Bush, who had worked to “fast track” the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing into law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the House of Representatives, Clinton introduced clauses intended to protect American workers and allay the concerns of many House members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafta

soooooo, sorry, bub, but, yeah – this was Bush’s baby … Clinton just got saddled with it.