Good thing we don’t ration health care in the USA

I sense an AJC editorial board theme-

What accounts for our odd generational schism — care for the aged, indifference to the young?-Queen Pinko

Aaahh, yes, the democrat party has schemed up a new set of talking points and the state run media fax machines whir.

Mowery said Young eventually went to an urgent care facility in Hamilton where she was given pain medication and then sent home.-Dayton Daily News.

Um, University Hospital, uh, duh? Where were they, hmmm?

Sounds like there were several failures here, but then again, nobody has ever died from swine flu, right?

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I’m not the one politicizing a tragic death for democrat party policy gain-

delayed getting medical treatment because she did not have health insurance.

that Young was reluctant to get care because she didn’t have insurance.

That’s from one article, you reckon they are trying to put forth a message or what?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/deceased-miami-student-remembered-for-her-passion-315472.html

How compassionate.

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Here’s a good one for ya-

Uninsured 22-Year-Old Boehner Constituent Dies From Swine Flu-ThinkProgress.

What a perfect prop this dead woman is to bash Boehner with. Aren’t y’all so lucky she passed at such an opportune time? It’s almost perfect, isn’t it?

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Jay,

Perhaps our school systems need to shift their emphasis and focus more on teaching their students more about how to identify illnesses along with basic finance and healthy lifestyles. Clearly, studies in poetry, literature, history, etc., are not paying off. Off course, our teachers here in Georgia may not have as much to offer as they once did either.

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Can you be treated without health Insurance? What’s the definition of ration?

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By the way, there is no such thing as being treated for free in an emergency room. It costs money to keep the lights on in that building and to keep a staff there and to purchase supplies, etc.

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We do ration health care but this isn’t an example. She could have and should have sought treatment earlier.

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Taxpayer

September 27th, 2009
7:49 am

Nothing is free. Well, I guess nothing is.

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 27th, 2009
7:32 am

Clinton (Bill) killed her!

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I think she is one of the group of people that Obama identified as those that choose to not have health insurance. The story never mentions how she worked two jobs but chose not to have coverage. I have to agree with Obama on this one, these young people that can afford coverage but choose not to are a drain on the system. While she herself did not walk away from an unpaid bill, if she had an emergency, other insureds would have to cover. She worked two jobs and chose not to go to the ER because she did not want to spend the money. At her age she couls have got coverage for $150 a month.

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MR. PRESIDENT, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!

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TnGelding

Nothing is free. Well, I guess nothing is.

Actually, as I mentioned in the thread below, I think there is good money to be made by the true entreprenuer on my latest invention — dehydrated water. It is all in the marketing.

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Normal

September 27th, 2009
8:42 am

One of approximately 150 that day.

Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,326 (2006)

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/deaths.htm

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Enter your comments here–

Good thing we don’t ration health care in the USA

Good thing we have mindless readers so that an equally mindless headline writer can spit out a talking a point and then cut and paste an article that doesn’t support the headline in the least, but knows full well his leftist following will never see the disconnect.

Let’s follow this through a bit though. The young lady was probably like most young people and thought she would always get better. She was working “at least two jobs” and her priorities were obviously on things other than health insurance or even a doctor visit. For the vast majority of young people this would have been an acceptable set of priorities. The Democrat answer to this is to force every young person in the country to spend their hard earned money on a health insurance plan or tax fine them up to their eyeballs.

Speaking of which I think I finally got back to the rationing part from the headline. Once we force everyone to get insurance that pays for every ache and pain where are we going to get the doctors to treat them?

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The unemployment rate for young Americans has exploded to 52.2 percent — a post-World War II high, according to the Labor Dept. — meaning millions of Americans are staring at the likelihood that their lifetime earning potential will be diminished and, combined with the predicted slow economic recovery, their transition into productive members of society could be put on hold for an extended period of time.-NYPost

Good idea voting for Obozo, wasn’t it, children?

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RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2009
8:57 am

The medical schools are expanding:

NEW YORK, Jan. 30 — With the nation’s medical schools in the midst of a major expansion, the education system has an “unparalleled opportunity” to restructure curricula and reform physicians’ training.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/HealthPolicy/12689

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I guess one child wants Obama to create even more government jobs. After all, unemployment is all his fault.

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Where was this young woman’s parents, jay? My husband and I (knowing that health insurance falls somewhere on the bottom of our daughter’s list of priorities) make sure that a premium payment is in her bank account – to be automatically withdrawn each month. It’s not that costly…$89.00.

She has also visited the campus health clinic for boosters. I told her to ask when the H1N1 vaccine would be made available. They gave her an early October date at which time she will revisit to be innoculated.

Harass your college-age students if you must ’cause they have “more important” things “on their minds”.

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@@

September 27th, 2009
9:15 am

I’d be interested in knowing the details on that policy.

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TnGelding

I’d be interested in knowing the details on that policy.

Our daughter has one. Basically, it kicks in after we spend $10,000 in a given year, unless she turns out to have had a previously undisclosed pre-existing condition, such as breathing.

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TNgelding, The fact is that if you get a new job and the benefits don’t kick in for 90 days, you go out and buy a short term health plan. Can anyone come up with a reason why Bookman mentions rationing here ?

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@@ –

“Where was this young woman’s parents, jay?”

Even apart from that, if she would have walked into the U of M student health center (or any other hospital) with Swine Flu symptoms, she would have recieved treatment.

She was misinformed about he health care that was available to her, because she thought that the uninsured could not receive health care.

Where do you think she got that idea?

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Let me be clear on Jay’s logic, because I feel like I must be missing something:

1) Ms Young needed medical treatment.

2) Ms Young did not seek medical treatment because she was misinformed about the medical care that was available to her.

3) Ms Young passed away from a lack of medical treatment.

4) Ms Young’s lack of medical treatment was due to “rationing”?

This is absurd.

What is the difference between Jay making false claims about rationing in the current health care system and Sarah Palin making false claims about rationing in the proposed health care system?

Nothing.

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Anybody want to deny that the girl got health care when she went to the hospital?

Anyone?

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Where do you think she got that idea?

From bleeding heart liberals like Taxpayer @ 7:49 who seem to resent the cost of operating emergency rooms for the benefit of young women like Kimberly Young?

Surely Kimberly’s parents didn’t fall for the liberal hype. I’d like to think they were better informed that that.

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Mike – “On Tuesday, Sept. 22, Young’s condition suddenly worsened and her roommate drove her to McCullough Hyde Memorial Hospital in Oxford, where she was flown in critical condition to University Hospital in Cincinnati.”

If she had no insurance who is going to pay for the flight to University Hospital? If she had insurance, would the insurance pay for that flight? Check your policies guys, you will find that most policies do not pay for that.

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From bleeding heart liberals like Taxpayer @ 7:49 who seem to resent the cost of operating emergency rooms for the benefit of young women like Kimberly Young?

That is indeed an udderly stupid comment. Then again…

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Where do you think she got that idea?

What is this, emulate Andy day.

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Even if we had FREE healthcare.. this would have still happened.

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“This young lady, for example, needed to be able to walk into a clinic and just have a nurse listen to her breathing in order to most likely detect pneumonia or at least alert her to visit a doctor.”

She would have gotten it if she walked into the U of M student health center. She might have been presented with a nominal bill for the anti-biotics. That’s what student health centers are for.

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I didn’t have insurance when I was her age. One time I got sick. I went to a doc in the box and paid out of pocket for treatment. It meant I couldn’t go out drinking with friends for a few weeks because I couldn’t afford it. Too bad this lady didn’t have the same sense. This is a case of death by stupidity.

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AmVet is responding as usual when his brain doesn”t like what he is seeing: with blind rage and wacko rhetoric like:

“hite collar criminals and fascists”
“traitorous conned ”
“thieves and swindlers”
“class warfare”
“power in a few immoral hands”
“mpeachable criminal”

Typical tin-foil hat crap.

He doesn’t event address the subject at hand, because he knows that this girl had plenty of access to health care, but decided not to access it.

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Oh, that was a good point. If I was 22 now, I’d probably be fooled by all the media coverage into thinking that I couldn’t get treatment unless I was insured. I mean, why all the hoopla about how we must get everyone insured, if you could get treated without it anyway?

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I was talking to a woman this weekend who told me her nephew who was a doctor used to sit in on hospital death panels – they determined who got treatment based on who could pay. He stepped down off that panel after a while.

Single payer is the only way. Let’s get rid of the health insurance companies – they can build nursing homes.

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Repubozos could care less that she’s dead. They legislate and fight in court to micromanage the pregnancy, then don’t care if the baby gets thrown in the dumpster once it’s delivered. Kimberly was delivered, and Repubozo health care threw her in the dumpster. As one of the top ten dumbest people to ever serve in the US Senate Jon Kyle said Friday, “If he doesn’t have the disease, who gives a flying F.”

According to the Dayton Daily News, the University of Dayton “requires” health insurance. 7% have it through the university. They can opt out if they sign a statement saying they have insurance elsewhere, and a large percentage of them don’t. They save %726 a year by not carrying university insurance.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/lack-of-health-insurance-among-college-students-a-concern-in-flu-season-318042.html

In a traditional show of stupidity, less than 10% and probably less than 5% of pregnant women in Georgia who are in the highest risk group from H1N1 will get the vaccine, correlated with the Georgia high of 47th in SATs in the country.

A very small percentage of medical personnel will get the H1N1 vaccine, further reenforcing stupidity in Georgia. New York made it mandatory, and the medical community responded by refusing in droves.

Ignorance is pandemic along with bliss; let’s hope death doesn’t join that group.

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“Anybody want to deny that the girl got health care when she went to the hospital?

Anyone?”

The point, Mike, and I’m pretty sure you’re clever enough to know this, is that because she couldn’t afford health insurance, she didn’t go and see her doctor when she first got sick, and when care might have made a difference. Instead she waited till she was desperately ill, and sought the most expensive care possible.

And this is a system you want to defend?

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62, act as though you are some high class debater who seeks knowledge and reasoned discourse, if it makes you feel like a real man.

This is a case of death by stupidity.

Doing the right thing and noting that you are an industrial strength scumbag is a fact. Not merely an insult, but an honorable obligation for those of us who see you for what you are.

scumbag –noun; A person regarded as despicable. Synonyms: degenerate, deviant, dip, dirtbag, dirtball, pervert, pig, scum, scuzzbag, sleaze, sleazeball, slimebag, slimeball, slimebucket, slob, weirdo

Here’s a young woman, who went to college (already a strike against her in your conned play book who absolutely loathe “liberal education”), was working not one, but TWO jobs to pay her way and likely make ends meet and you call her stupid?

And I wonder how her family, especially her parents would feel that some anonymous and gutless POS “compassionate conservative” like yourself wants to score points on a meaningless political blog by profaning her memory.

A despicable person indeed…

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Amend last statement:

Providing insurance is much like handing banks money with the expectation they will use all of it for the people, they will do what business does, care for itself, profit and then with the remainder, help the people.

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Chris says he can’t help that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about; health care is a hard concept for him. The CBO just reported “a robust public option will save $110 billion dollars for this nation’s economy.” Understanding that would require Chris to Google CBO, Dr. Doug Elmendgorf, and the Katy Abram tribe doesn’t do the google–they just spew as if they’re lobotomized. Like their Repubozo polling company now exposed for making it up–it’s their default position.

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On Tuesday, full blown Republican hypocrisy and whoring will be front and center on national TV. Chuck Schumer will introduce C1/C2 – Public Option Amendments and Jay Rockerfeller will introduce C1– his public option amendment.

The rebuttal will come from Republicans and Blue Dogs who have taken millions over their careers and hundreds of thousands this summer from insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies to kill any health reform, and particularly the public option. The public option has little chance of passing Senate Finance, but a much better chance on the floor and in Conference because the House is behind it.

What anyone who watches will see is full blown prostitutes defending their right to be hookers when the public has elected them to represent their best interests. The chamber of commerce, aka Dick Cheney with a checkbook, has attacked public option, because they want rates to increase and double the way they have the past ten years.

It is hard to tell who is more incompetent, the uN at stopping Iran from nuclear bomb capability or the Repubs and Blue Dogs on Senate Finance unabashedly hooking for their insurance johns.

Details of the Senate Finance Bunny Ranch

http://www.campaignmoney.org/threevotes

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The story of the young woman’s death is reflective of how many people, poor and middle-class, handle their personal health care.

They(we) tend to self-diagnose and self-describe our ailments because we are aware of the enormous costs associated with doctors visits for check-ups and other needed medical services.

If one would really look at the system currently in place, the biggest factor in rationing health care is cost. Monthly premiums are prohibitive in most cases and we are not always ill, therefore we rationalize the monthly cost with the actual usage.

We all think that insurance costs are not in line with the actual usage. A perfect example of this would be a fireman. Many complain about how fireman don’t seem to be busy during their personal observation resulting in the conclusion that they are overpaid for the services they perform until we have a fire and their services are desperately needed.

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Imagine this, I disagree with the teachings of the Church concerning capital punishment.

So the point being made was that the Commandments say “Thou shalt not murder,” not “Thou shalt not kill,” which is a very important distinction, murder being premeditated and done with no redeeming qualities. Killing in itself could be done to prevent evil from happening, etc.

For instance, abortion is murder and wasting ragheads on the battlefield is killing, as a dead raghead will not be slaughtering anymore innocent women and children.

Following along?

So the Church’s position is that capital punishment is vengeance and does not prevent further evil from being done. The point was also made that the murderer is denied the Grace of God.

My first response is that 20 some years in the appellate court system is plenty of time to make your peace with your Creator and if you haven’t gotten around to it by then, considering that there is little else to do in a 8X10 cell 24 hours a day, then shame on you.

The second point I have, is that if one barbarian notices you being butchered in the name of the State, and decides against slaughtering the family he has been scheming, because he saw you getting whacked, then we should have broadcast your demise live on TV during American Idol, so that we could have changed the minds of many more future murderers.

There is evidence and statistics proving what I say.

And thirdly, I do not at all believe that most of the heinous crimes being committed are mistakes worthy of forgiveness. The Word of God condemns those who choose to carry out such despicable acts and we are charged with doing His Will, so let’s make ourselves useful and send the depraved along to their final judgment.

Other than that, good sermon

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Look, mike, bookman does not have the option to disagree with democrat party talking points, it is his responsibility to dutifully pass them along to his readership.

Lay off the guy, he’s just doing what he has been instructed to do.’

geez

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“Health insurance is not health care. This is what is wrong with the system – insurance should not be used to provide care – but to insure against monetary loss, in extreme cases.”

“So.. what Jay is saying.. We need the gov’t to make all our decisions for us.”

Glad to see a few clear-thinking people here.

“Single payer is the only way. Let’s get rid of the health insurance companies – they can build nursing homes.”

“Single payer health care would benefit almost everybody.”

You know, in some ways, a single-payer system makes sense by reducing all of the administrative overhead. Unfortunately, the type of system being proposed right now ( i.e. mandated purchase of health “insurance”) has none of the advantages of a single payer-system, and magnifies the disadvantages. As such, I can’t for the life of me figure out why ANYONE would support ObamaCare on either side of the political spectrum.

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The United States is on the verge of becoming a minority Protestant country. More than one-quarter of American adults (28%) have left the faith in which they were raised.

Thankfully Christi-inanity is on the decline in this great nation. The facts are irrefutable and the future bodes well for reason and knowledge over fear and intimidation.

And this is in large part thanks to the irrational, evangelical loons and fraud poster boys like the repugnant WHITE bigot, who have proudly and publicly polluted their already hateful superstitions, mumbo jumbo and dogma to an even greater degree.

You’re doing a heckuva job, connies…

This is the best take on the greatest bullsh_tters ever…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=PlayList&p=32632A2A1A3B4F15&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

And look! Isn’t that sweet.

The godly welcher has found a new buddy! Can you say desperate?

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Gee, I wonder how I knew that if I pointed out how the Church agrees with one of the liberal’s and Queen Pinko’s most cherished positions, even though I don’t, that the libs would still attack the Church?

Could it be the foaming, irrational anger on full time display?

~~~~~

Mad Harris- I do not make it point to interrupt the sermon on Sunday to dispute the preacher. It’s not all about me, remember, I am a Conservative.

I have made a mental note to discuss this with him first chance I get.

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Atlanta’s most famous serial dog murderer will be attempting to try his luck at taming Wild Cats in a few hours.

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“Gee, I wonder how I knew that if I pointed out how the Church agrees with one of the liberal’s and Queen Pinko’s most cherished positions,…”

No, it just makes them – the church and the “religious” libs – look even more ridiculous in my view.

You far right wing nuts have no iron clad monopoly on ignorance and irrational mysticism – look at the “reverend” Wright among countless others on the left.

You’ve just deluded yourselves into thinking you do have an iron-clad monopoly on morality.

Pray for some redemption, but you’ll never receive any. Just rain…

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RW,

Well, gee thanks! Episcopalians (at least the ones I know) consider wine as a food group, or at least a very handy way of getting your fruit servings.

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Enter your comments here:

Lets see what Vick can do.

That hit on Tebow could have ended that career.

Ouch.

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“Lets see what Vick can do.”

It will be interesting, getalife. It’s possible that the long “rest” did him some good. He appears to be a lot more mature individual.

Well, here’s hoping the Jets and the Saints can win today. I lost my azz yesterday on Florida State, and need to make a comeback today.

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Bruno, no I’ve not seen it, but the trailers looked awesome.

Talk about your tortured soul playing a tortured soul.

There’s something uniquely interesting about that…

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Kamchak -

“mike is responding as usual when his brain doesn’t like what he is seeing with blind rage and whacko rhetoric like:

“typical liberal hypocrites”
“hyper partisan intolerance”
“ad hominem attacks”
“mindless partisan hatred”
“hate-filled meaningless rant”
“narrow minded views”’

That’s super but I didn’t say any of those things.

I guess you must not have a response to anything I actually did say. LOL

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every mother’s son –

“I contacted viral pneumonia in January, and I can tell you it’s not something that you go see a nurse about so she can refer you to a doctor as Mike suggests.”

She could have walked into her student health center and gotten help that day.

It is misinformation that killed this girl, not “the system”. The system provided her care as soon as she requested it. Expensive care at that.

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Oh wait! Turns our that she did get medical attention before her emergency treatment:

“Young became ill about two weeks ago, but didn’t seek care initially because she didn’t have health insurance and was worried about the cost, according to Brent Mowery, her friend and former roommate.

Mowery said Young eventually went to an urgent care facility in Hamilton where she was given pain medication and then sent home.

On Tuesday, Sept. 22, Young’s condition suddenly worsened and her roommate drove her to McCullough Hyde Memorial Hospital in Oxford, where she was flown in critical condition to University Hospital in Cincinnati.”

OK, so she gets sick, but not sick enough that she or her friends think it is worth the money to address.

Then she goes to an urgent care facility, but apparently is not given the treatment she needed.

She decides to go to the hospital later and is admitted immediately.

If there is any scandal here it should be that the urgent care facility did not treat her properly.

This whole thread is a farce.

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The article also notes that:

“Young traveled twice to Latin America to explore human rights issues, and helped organize the spring break trips as part of the Students for Peace and Justice.”

Sorry.If she has enough money to do the human right tourism, she had enough money for some penicillin.

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Except for one on point infectious disease fact Mikey–

“Penicillin” does nothing to help H1N1 nor does it inhibit or kill any virus. When used promiscuously by people who take their friend’s or by a doctor who doesn’t know what he or she is doing to placate the patient to Rx an antibiotic for viral illness–frequently done and stupidly done, it can promote a super-infecting bacterial pneumonia that often does the patient in or makes them a lot sicker.

Pen discovered in the 1920’s by accident because of a kitchen mold, actually got on the market at the end of WWII because more soldiers on both sides died of what we called then pneumococcal pneumonia and now call Strept. Pneumonia (not to be confused with Strept throat) because more troops on both sides died of it after being exposed to harsh weather and no shelter.

Within 5 years there was already significant penicillinase preduction, or an enzyme that allowed bacteria to be resistant to penicillin. Using it in viral disease promotes this exponentially. Keflex was a big breakthough because it attacked penicillinase until quickly we got resistance from promiscuous use of the cephalosporins (including its original Keflex). Resistance in the quinollone family comes much quicker as does resistance in secondary and tertiary cephalosporins.

Go Falcons.

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“Talk about your tortured soul playing a tortured soul.”

I think that’s what gives the movie a transcendent quality. The ultimate form of “method acting”.

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Public Option -

Do you deny that this girl received medical care as soon as she asked for it?

If I sit in my house and starve to death because I erroneously think I can’t afford food, is it indicative of a broken food system?

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That’s super but I haven’t said any of those things today—yet.

fyt again

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From Bruno who makes up everything he says.

“What part of the phrase “government-approved health insurance plan” do you not get? Government approved /= public option. “Government-approved” simply means that the government will dictate what minimum coverages must be included by each provate insurer, whether such coverage makes any sense for the individual consumer or not (e.g. maternity coverage).”

Totally wrong. There is nothing like this in any of the five bills or contemplated to be added on the floor of House or Senate or in conference. This is out of the land of Bruno delusions.

The private insurers have dictated every aspect of insurance–premiums, recission, they dropped 17000 last year that died as a direct result of treatment they didn’t get.

Hell yes I’m denying your fiction is the centerpiece of any plan. No one knows what Obama is pushing and I fault him for not being precise. It’s allowed the Senate Finance hookers to hold up the plan for months.

We don’t know what the shape of a mandate will be yet. What we do know is that if there isn’t a robust public option, insurance companies will continue to rape the public and people will continue to die in the thousands per year because they lack coverage or get dropped.

You also avoid or forget that the pharmaceutical companies want to preserve gouging seniors in a Part D donut paradigm that forbids competitive bidding for Medicare drugs. It’s the source of the Medicare fiscal problems that stupid Republicans pretend has nothing to do with the setup that they pushed in 2003 with Bill Frist and his band of pharmaceutical company hookers.

It was front and center in Senate Finance with Bill Nelson’s bill Friday, and it will be attacked in a lot more friendly territory when the Senate Finance committee stops showing the country how hard the hookers are fighting for their johns and the hundreds of thousands lavished on them by the johns this summer.

If you think you have any direct documentation for the outlandish Bruno manufactured junk you’re proferring here, then please bring it, but it doesn’t exist.

The Republican dominated Baucus bill default would have caused those kinds of penalties, and there are numerous amendments from both sides not to ahve them.

BTW all 564 amendments don’t get debated; only a fraction actually come up for debate. Most of the amendments are meaningless jibberish by Repubozos like Hatch that say nothing and won’t be taken up. Senate Finiance has to vote on any amendment that any Senator presents to the committee for a vote, not any amendment that is written.

Each committee has its own specific rules in a markup.

I’m looking forward to seeing Chuck Schumer and Jay Rockerfeller making my arguments against hookers who are only arguing to preserve their hooking at the expense of health care on Tuesday and Wednesday. TIVO is a good thing.

@ Mike–

You don’t know what the hell she died of rookie. And you wouldn’t know viral or antibiotic treatment if it bit you in the butt. You have zero training and are making a fool of yourself.

We don’t have her medical records, and we don’t have autopsy results. The most specific article on her is from the Dayton paper and it says contrary to the AJC whizkids that she either died of H1N1 OR VIRAL FRIGGING PNEUMONIA.

Throwing penicillin around when there’s a doctor here to clean up your stupidity just makes you look dumber Mike. If you’re going to argue medicine with me, get through med school and residency and then do some clinical practice. Right now you’re way out of your league.

If you think she had a penicillin treatable pneumonia–none of us use penicillin very widely for pneumonia in fact, and we haven’t done it in since the 1950’s bubby. I explained that after a very few years, significant resistance developed to penicillin treatment of bacteria and that includes all pneumonias and otitis media. That ushered in Keflex and cephalosporins.

No comprehensive review of pneumonia treatment recommends penicllin unless you’re dealing with a pen sensitive pneumonia, and hasn’t since the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. You’ve made a total fool of yourself but are too ignorant to realize it.

We don’t use newspapers in medicine to make infectious disease diagnoses. We don’t have confirmatory tests results on Kimberly Young.

Maybe more information will come forward.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/deceased-miami-student-remembered-for-her-passion-315472.html

Family members indicated that Young died from complications from the H1N1 virus, but the Ohio Department of Health, the Hamilton County Health District and the Butler County Health Department were unable to confirm she had been infected with the virus.

Bret Atkins, of ODH, said late Thursday afternoon that his department had not received a specimen yet to test for the H1N1 virus. If it is confirmed, Young would be the fourth Ohioan to die from the virus and the second from Butler County.

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Mike…”Inexpensive health care?” Is there such an animal?

As I stated earlier I had pneumonia, and spent three weeks in the ICU at Emory Eastside then was transported via ambulance to a rehab facility for a two week stay. Think that’s inexpensive? The ambulance ride alone was 500.00!

With pneumonia you don’t just drop into the doctor and get a shot, and you’re ok.

Pneumonia sneaks up on you…First you think you have flu like symptons..Then as you become worse, your vitals start to shut down, but you still think you’ll weather the storm. If it hadn’t of been for my wife dragging me off to the doctor I wouldn’t be here to write this.

This girl probably thought she would get better, and without insurance didn’t take the necessary steps until it was to late.

Now back to the football game.

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An ambulance ride with only EKG monitoring from the varsity to either Grady or Piedmont normally bills at about $650. The expense of treatment only becomes vivid when you’ve been a patient like every mother’s son who makes the points well.

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LOL, Jokerman — I don’t think so

It appears it was cancer: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h2nLadQOf3AIl4Rm7NGmQ__jAUhAD9AVRAG01

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Bill Safire was one of the most outstanding reporters and newspaper writers who ever lived:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/us/28safire.html

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Well, this story is a sad realization of what can happen. It does happen because we have free choice to make our own decisions. That is known as FREEDOM. We do make many decisions and many times they are wrong but we CHERISH THAT RIGHT..

Bookman uses the story of a deceased young woman as propaganda to promote a political issue i.e. present healthcare formulation. A thoughtless malevolent decision using death as a tool.

The young woman like many young people did not think she needed healthcare insurance or did not knoow what was available. Unfortunate decision but not unusual for our youngest adults.

Doctors at the Emergency Healthcare Center made the wrong diagnosis, judging a serious condition as something needing less care. Wrong diagnosis but easy to miss the right one.

But let us not take away freedom in the fallacious thought that we can save the lives of all Americans by demanding they use “government” healthcare not of their choosing. We cannot do that and be a free nation. Good or bad, we must make our own decisions. Don’t throw freedom away with a bad decision. That will ruin your health.

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Public Option’s Doing Swell –

What’s up with the “Mikey” thing? Getting angry and reverting to grade school tactics? Big surprise.

Your arguing about penicillin is a total diversion from the point.

The point is that she recieved care as soon as she requested it?

I have asked you several times to deny that, but you would rather change the subject. Again, big surpirse.

For the fourth time:

Do you deny that she received care as soon as she requested it?

Feel free to keep ducking the question. You ducking gives us all the answers we need.

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Normal- Did I not tell you about the Patriots?

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every mothers son –

“mike…You answer YES to my question “Mike…”Inexpensive health care?” Is there such an animal Care to go into detail?”

Sure. I have an HSA account and catastrophic insurance. I pay most of my family’s medical bills out of pocket. My daughter got pinkeye. I brought her to the doctor and the combination of doctor’s fees and medicine was under $100.

“On one hand according to you health care can be obtained on the cheap, and in the next paragraph you state “It is expensive””

This is really not very complicated. Some health care is relatively inexpensive, like the healthcare I that would have helped this girls had she not avoided the doctor. Some health care is expensive like the health care that she was provided when she finally went to the doctors.

Simple enough for you?

Any chance that you will answer any of my questions instead of just deflecting like Chad/Public Option?

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This is the only question in your contradictory monolog…..

“Nobody is debating that health care is expensive. It is expensive. Are you saying that it is too expensive and you want somebody else to pay for it?”

Yes and no…….Makes about as much sense as you do!

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Looks like Chad doesn’t feel like answering questions. He just wants to ask them.

I guess it is because Chad doesn’t have any answers.

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Dusty –

“Bookman uses the story of a deceased young woman as propaganda to promote a political issue i.e. present healthcare formulation.”

So true. Bookman has found his Teri Schiavo. How repugnant that he would use this poor girl’s corpse as a podium for his politics. Disgusting.

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@ Mike–

You’re very fond of mentally masturbating and lack of facts and data never stops you.

Arguing with you or trying to discuss anything is like trying to discuss with a 2 year old child . The great news about you is you’re a Katy Abram clone and most Republicans are like you= loss after loss after loss.

You were the one who raise penicillin incorrectly and it’s my reflex to fix it.

You don’t know what she had but that didn’t stop you from proclaiming you did.

We asses treatment in post mortems with charts and autopsies, not newspaper accounts. The media tries medically, but at this state in her illness they don’t have anything firm. There is also the issue of patient privacy that sometimes prevents newspapers from reporting accurately. This is played out on cable TV all the time as well. We have Steve Sadow litigating the saga of Anna Nicole Smith years after.

However…according to the Dayton paper

The best information I have is that treatment was delayed. That’s what the article relates. In the first the paper reports she delayed. In the second place, the urgent care facility treated her for pain and did not suspect or diagnose flu. Rapid tests are popular at those type clinics, and rapid tests are highly inaccurate and there is the indication from the paper that the urgent care facility wasn’t entertaining H1N1 or flu–but that she was uncomfortable. It doesn’t relate her Sx or treatment at the urgent care facility. Then two weeks later she gets hospitalized for whatever she had.

The definitive treatment for H1N1 if in fact she had that, and you don’t know what she had, and I don’t because I don’t have any charts from the facilities who saw her or any final diagnosis in my hands, films, labs, tests for H1N1 or her treatment and the time sequence.

The only information I have on the unfortunate student is lay information from a Dayton newspaper reporter and it goes like this. It sure as hell suggest her diagnosis (whatever it really is) and treatment was delayed.

“That’s the most tragic part about it. If she had insurance, she would have gone to the doctor,” Mowery said.

I have better things to do than to argue with someone with ‘t knzero medical training who doesn’t know the circunmstances of Ms. Nelson, but I have a feeling the outcome is not one that nay physician or family member or friend wants for a patient in her circumstances. She was dead and she still is dead.

We don’t consider that the objective in a 22 year old college student with her life ahead of her. We’re not trained that way.

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As soon as people give up their $30,000 cars, their flat screens, their Apple computers, their cellphones, their internet service and all of the other “necessary trappings” of American life I will listen to the Democrats argument about the cost of healthcare and about how so many poor people don’t have it. A persons healthchare should take priority over all of this other trivial crap but no-one thinks they should have to pay for that. They are willing to pay for the bling but not the healthcare. Who in the hell ever said healthcare should be anymore free than your power bill?

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Or shorter version–the Dayton newspaper indicates the woman did not get either antiviral Tx or antibiotics, whichever was appropriate at the hospital until 2 weeks after her symptoms presented. There are a list of symptoms of H1N1 and any pneumonica covered in my last link.

Young people and older people often delay treatment thinking they can shake something off–we all do that–and it appears in this situation delayed treatment had the ultimately worse case outcome.

We’re going to beat down Repubozo hookers for insurance companies and we’re going to get access to care for many more and I hope all Americans in the next few months. When that will actually happen after legislation is passed, if it is passed is a whole other awful discussion.

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Chad –

“Young people and older people often delay treatment thinking they can shake something off–we all do that–and it appears in this situation delayed treatment had the ultimately worse case outcome.”

Well how is “beating down Repubozo hookers for insurance companies” going to change the above, Chad?

Just using this poor girl’s death as tool for your silly partisanship?

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People like Chad/Public Option are why the public option is failing. Their hysterical and hateful ranting is a turnoff to anyone who thinks. If someone like Chad can be for a policy, most sane people will be wary.

I know, I know. Normal people are normally really impressed with terms like “Repubozo hookers”, but it almost sounds like a grade school insult the way that Chad says it. LOL

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Chad –

For the seventh time:

Do you deny that she received treatment as soon as she asked for it?

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The ER is the “national health care” program in the USofA and the taxpayers pick up the tab for it. But you don’t pay it strictly in higher taxes, you also pay it in higher insurance premiums and it is really expensive. Why!

…Because when a heart attack victim who’s never taken cholesterol-lowering drugs or high blood pressure medication shows up at the St. Luke’s ER, it costs a heck of a lot more money than the medication that might have prevented or delayed the heart attack. Ditto for the woman who never gets an annual mammogram but who shows up at the ER when she finally has a lump in her breast and is diagnosed as having Stage 3 cancer.

The ER care at St. Luke’s may be superior to the formalized national health care in places like Britain, France or Canada. But don’t for a minute think that it’s free, or that it’s not America’s own form of national health care.

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Go for it.

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Mike you’re easy to keep up with….you said you paid 100.00 for your daughters pinkeye, Call me next time she comes down with this malady and I’ll only charge 50.00

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Reading the posts here, me thinks Mike will shortly need MENTAL INSURANCE….

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“For some reason, folks seem to think that government health care is free health care. It isn’t.”

Well, it depends on your definition of free…Free to who?

If you are a veteran it’s definately free to the user. Not one red cent comes out of the users pocket.

If you are a taxpayer then of course a little comes out, but then again someone has got to pay the piper.

And from a veteran of a foreign war (VN) I believe I earned the right……………………..

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Yes! Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!

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Hey guys and gals, just a friendly reminder from that old hippie Normal…
http://irc.lv/video?id=WpDWler5bTJx

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Kamchak…If You’re gonna do a little barefootin’ Here’s a little something for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z2O23-fh1I

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jokerman

Well—-that brings back some mammaries.

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Public Option –

“You demand “my credentials.” I don’t have to give you the time of day, and wouldn’t if I met you you’re such an arrogant stupid SOB, but I’ve stated before I have an MD at an American medical school, and I graduated from an honors program at a leading American university with a double major in English and Chemistry, minors biology and philosophy related to each.”

Bull. There is no way that anyone with the shallow thought process that you demonstrate on a regular basis has a GED, let alone an advanced degree.

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“Columnist William Safire dies. AJC headline”

Only the rocks live forever……

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“Well—-that brings back some mammaries”

Hmmmmmm…now that you mention it !!!!!!!!!

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I do so admire mike’s patience.

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Chad/Public Option –

“What Issackson is not mentioning is that none of the 3 Issackson children, all between the ages of roughly 25-30 have no intention whatsoever of going to Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else as members of the armed forces or contractors.”

What a load of crap. How much time do you think Obama’s kids will spend in such circumstances? Or Chelsea Clinton?

“So in other words, in typical Republican fashion–”let the hired help” be the fish in a barrel to be blown up and accomplish nothing.”

Hate to have facts crash sown on your mindless partisan fantasies, but Republicans far outnumber Democrats in the service. According to the Military Times, the active serving armed forces is:

48.9% Republican
14.4% Democrat

45.8% Somewhat or very conservative
8.4% Somewhat or very liberal

So again, your mindless yammering is disproved by a simple Google search.

“One could ask why Issacson’s 3 children aren’t in Afghanistan?”

Because they are adults who make up their own mind as to whether they want to serve, regardless of who their Dad is.

Kind of like Al Gore’s military age kids are not in the service, despite his Dad’s enthusiastic support for the Afghan War.

Are you ever right about anything, “Dr.” Chad? LOL

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ou don’t know you arrogant ignorant turkey what health care she received. But you can infer from the article she put off going to the urgent care center for 2 weeks and her friends say it’s because she didn’t have the money or the insurance. Insurance at her school cost about $750 bucks and she didn’t have it.

And you nailed it accurately, I’m working on my GED after several years of medical practice. You’re working on your delusional system and you have it carved out pretty well.

You don’t know what was in the girl’s head; you don’t know why it took her 2 weeks to start getting medical care, and her friends say it’s because she coudln’t afford it. Dayton has a medical school; her student health service apparently requires insurance payments and she didn’t have it.

You don’t know what she had, and you don’t know when she got treatment for what she had.

What I take from the article having done many years of ER and FP is that she put off care because she didn’t ahve the insurance her university requres to be seen at student health when she got mild symptoms; she didn’t know to go to the University medical school teaching hospital or hell maybe she couldn’t get there–I don’t know her transportation status or state of mind; and when she got definitive Dx/Tx she was shipped from Hamilton Ohio down where she was admitted at treated at CGH.

I did some residency years at CGH how ’bout you Miko?

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Chad –

Ducking and spinning and name calling again.

Let me destory your silly argument.

“ou don’t know you arrogant ignorant turkey what health care she received. ”

Never claimed to. I was saying that she did receive medical attention. You refuse to say that.

“Insurance at her school cost about $750 bucks and she didn’t have it.”

Bull

“Who is eligible to receive services at the Student Health Service? Any Miami University student registered for classes is eligible.

Can students utilize the Student Health Service even if they do not purchase the student health insurance? Yes. All students are required to have insurance (see Student Insurance) and the University offers a policy for those who would like to purchase it. However, the services of the SHS are available to all students registered for classes. ”

http://www.units.muohio.edu/saf/shs/FAQ.htm

“You don’t know what was in the girl’s head; you don’t know why it took her 2 weeks to start getting medical care, and her friends say it’s because she coudln’t afford it. ”

Not certain why you are bringing this up, but what is your point? You don’t need insurance to see a doctor and if she went to Student Health center or any other hospital, she would have received treatment. Seems like even if she had a bill, it would not be a crippling and it would have been worth her life.

“Dayton has a medical school; her student health service apparently requires insurance payments and she didn’t have it.”

See above. She had access to the health center. Wrong again “Dr.”

“You don’t know what she had, and you don’t know when she got treatment for what she had.”

All I know is what the Board of Health said, but who cares? Why is that relevant to the insurance discussion.

“she didn’t know to go to the University medical school teaching hospital or hell maybe she couldn’t get there–I don’t know her transportation status”

What? The girl planned and went overseas trips for her school and she couldn’t call a cab? What a joke.

“I did some residency years at CGH how ’bout you Miko?”

So you say

Even if you are not lying (a BIG if), I’ve been an executive at Fortume 500 companies for over 18 years. Does that mean that I am allowed to comment on business and you are not?

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Kam, That’s where I do my best fishin’ too… And wine on Sunday, OMG a true miricle!!!

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RIP william saphire…he wrote “nattering nabobs of negativism” for Spiro T., which is kind of cool. 2 good conservative columnists lost recently

If these things come in 3’s, I hope that horses ass Thomas L. Friedman is next.

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I might add that anyone who thinks insurance companies haven’t caused rationing either because of their autocratic fraudulent tratment of patients and doctors or premiums that employers and employed or unemployed (much more expensive market) can’t afford has been living on another planet or is totally out of contact with reality.

This girl was not a Christian Scientist or Jahova’s witness who was refusing care, and unless you’re stupid enough to think one of her best friends/former room-mates is a sociopathic liar with an agenda, she was busting her butt at 2 part time jobs while looking for work in a job market Bush ruined in Ohio.

It sure implies she couldn’t afford care and put off treatment until the process she had, probably a fatal pneumonia of some kind could not be successfully treated by the time she hit the MICU at UC.

Somewhere tonight in that hospital or close by are some very sad nurses and some very sad residents and attendings.

I’d shove her right in the face of Jon Kyle Tuesday if I were on Senate Finance–I’d love to be there to beat up on the Blue Dogs and the Repubozos.

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9 months in now for obozo Hussein, and the job losses keep rolling in…stimulus=FAIL? thats a big 10-4 kemosabee!

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…And Kam, I’ve got some great fish recipes too, if you’re interested…

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Public Option -

“I’d shove her right in the face of Jon Kyle Tuesday if I were on Senate Finance–I’d love to be there to beat up on the Blue Dogs and the Repubozos.”

Right because you are an angry and irrational person who would love to stand on this girl’s corpse to make deceitful points.

The truth is that she had access to health care from several places and chose not to avail herself of it. If anyone is to blame, it is folks like Jay who want to scare people into thinking that they will get turned away if they don’t have insurance.

How is that John Kyl’s fault, Chad?

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“Dr Chad” –

““On Sept. 24, Miami officials posted a notice to students, reminding them if they showed signs of the flu to see a doctor or go to the student health center.

If a roommate or friend exhibits any of these signs, please encourage them not to wait to seek help,” the notice stated. “If you become ill and have a history of asthma or any other chronic respiratory disease, you should seek medical care right away. We also recommend that you contact your family and your medical specialist.””

Notice that they didn’t say “if you have insurance” or “if you can afford it”.

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John Kyle, all the Blue Dogs, and Democrat Menendez are basically functioning as the exclusive whore service for insurance companies and have done everything they can to delay a public option, and other health care reform provisions that would establish competition for their johns the insurance companies. That’s how hookers work. High priced call girls or boys (Blue Dogs and Republicans and Menendez. They have so far offered no substantive argument, and amazingly last week they explicitly tried to slow walk the bill so that according to Bob Bennett and Olympia Snow (and this is all over the web) the hookers’ insurance company jonh’s lobbyists would have 72 hours to object to each amendment presented for vote before the vote.

In the Senate if you can slow walk a bill enough, you can kill it.

What’s begun to happen is that after all the hoopla of the Senate Finance Six who represented 2.2% of the US, the more influential powerful membeate rs of the Senate started countering them for the first time in months last week. That includes Schumer and Rockerfeller and Stabenow.

Of course as people are wont to point out, every politician in the Senate and House raises money from lobbyists and corporations who want legislation. Georgia Power and Southern company give more money than any companies in the world to Congress and the Georgia, Alabama and Misssisippi legislatures as well.

But the specific amounts from specific insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies for all people opposed to health care reform, but on the Senate Finance and certain House Committees in particular have been astranomical, and they are listed in many places on the web. I’ve linked them over 2 dozen times.

http://www.campaignmoney.org/pressroom/2009/07/27/elected-officials-voting-against-health-reform-received-65-more-in-industry-campaign-donations-than-those-v

http://www.campaignmoney.org/threevotes

Kylre remarked Friday that he didn’t see the need for maternity provisions in insurance because he has never gotten pregnant. He was reminded his mother got pregnant although I could argue Kyle may have come from somewhere else.

We’ve had a trigger for insurance company abuse now for 15 years. A trigger is a joke because it enforces nothing. Kyle and his hookers want to continue a trigger to a public option. It’s a ruse for fools who want to kill a public option or competition for insurance companies that no one is forced to join and in some bills can’t get into unless they have no insurance (lost or otherwise).

To support the trigger idea you must also believe that even after the new regulated marketplace is put in place there is still a distinct possibility that insurance companies will continue to rapidly increase premiums and treat customers badly. You must believe that it is possible that our new health insurance marketplace could turn out to have many problems because of the lack of a public option.

When a politician says he supports the trigger idea, he is telling his constituents, “I know insurance companies treat their clients badly and charge way too much for their products. I know there is a way the government could create a public option that would help millions of Americans with these problems, but helping people is not my top priority. I think it is much more important to give large for-profit corporations another chance to screw over the American people.”

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WASHINGTON — Bill Clinton says a vast, right-wing conspiracy that once targeted him is now focusing on President Barack Obama.

Well, it so nice of you to notice, bubba.

I do what I can.

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Dr Chad –

“When a politician says he supports the trigger idea, he is telling his constituents, “I know insurance companies treat their clients badly and charge way too much for their products. I know there is a way the government could create a public option that would help millions of Americans with these problems, but helping people is not my top priority. I think it is much more important to give large for-profit corporations another chance to screw over the American people.””

Right!! Anyone who does not share your policy views has only one goal: screwing over the American people.

It must be nice to be able to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is evil.

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@Public Option’s Doing Swell

You arguments have been well reasoned and documented, yet the so-called conservatives still refuse to accept any facts that are contrary to their “set of facts.”

To go along with your information, many want to dispute your medical knowledge, without the benefit of having a medical degree themselves. They will continue to cling to their positions even though they see the ground fast approaching. They fail to understand “it is not the jump that gets you, it is the SUDDEN stop!”

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 27th, 2009
8:28 pm

Keep on keeping on. You’re helping our cause.

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TnGelding

September 27th, 2009
9:06 pm

I’m convinced they don’t have a clue.

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TnGelding –

“Keep on keeping on. You’re helping our cause.”

Yeah but for every Whiner there is a Taxpayer. On this blog, in particular, we have a bunch of folks to cancel out Whiner: Public Option, Midori, AmVet, getreal, etc.

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@Mike

I can give you a well-reasoned summary immediately.
You make your argument based on the belief the person that died was still a student a Miami of Ohio. SHE WAS A GRADUATE, therefore, her health care was no longer part of her tuition.

Now, if she stated to her roommate she did not go to the health care facility because of the cost associated with treatment, what argument can YOU present that shows she was somehow responsible for her demise?

Third, you fail to accept the fact that health care, in many instances is self-diagnosed and self-medicated, therefore many of us – you included – make assumptions that “we will get better in three days.”

I do not have a medical degree, nor do I believe you do. I do have a VERY GOOD understanding of insurance, therefore, we could debate your resistance to the public option.

Now, give a cogent rejoinder!

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Poor mike and his conspiracy theories. His little Rutgers educated mind and executive experience at a ‘Fortume 500′ Company (whatever that is) have equipped him to become the pontificating blogger that we have all come to know all too well. The poor thing.

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Now, give a cogent rejoinder!

He could not accomplish that task even when sober, Jackie.

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mike

September 27th, 2009
9:14 pm

You’re right, it goes both ways. I hope I don’t fall into that category. I try to keep an open mind. We’ve been bickering over the same issues for decades until they’ve reached critical mass. Something has to be done on health care, entitlements, immigration, transportation, energy, deficits and debt, government waste, fraud and abuse, to name a few.

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Jackie –

“You make your argument based on the belief the person that died was still a student a Miami of Ohio. SHE WAS A GRADUATE, therefore, her health care was no longer part of her tuition.”

I was wrong about that but so was Public Option who you are applauding, so it is a wash.

Regardless, that wasn’t my point at all and you would have to go to great lengths to ignore my actual point, as I made it over and over again.

My first point was that she had access to health care but chose not to avail herself of it. She might have gotten a bill, but it would not have ruined her financially. (This seems particularly true because she is well remembered for the overseas human rights tourism trips she took on multiple occasions.)

My second point is that she actually did receive medical care when she asked for it. Expensive care.

My third point is that there is no basis to claim that this tragedy has anything to do with “rationing” as Jay claims.

Feel free to address my actual points.

“Now, if she stated to her roommate she did not go to the health care facility because of the cost associated with treatment, what argument can YOU present that shows she was somehow responsible for her demise?”

Well, let’s be clear. I feel terribly for this girl and don’t want to attack her. That being said, she could have gotten care if she had tried to and she would be alive if she did. I am more interested in claiming that it is not the fault of the system, as so many have claimed. The system would have worked if she had availed herself of it.

I also believe, but have no evidence, that this woman may have been led to believe that the bills would ruin her forever or that she would be turned away without insurance. These claims are core to the fearmongering that people like Jay are engaging in. It appears to be just as deceptive and destructive as the “death panel” talk of the mindless partisans on the right.

“Third, you fail to accept the fact that health care, in many instances is self-diagnosed and self-medicated, therefore many of us – you included – make assumptions that “we will get better in three days.””

Of course I accept that fact. Why do you believe that I don’t?

Take your partisan goggles off for a sec. I am not trying to attack the girl. I am trying to attack the claim that our current health policy is responsible. (And before you go off on a rant, I do believe the system needs reform, just not the reform that Public Option wants.)

“I do not have a medical degree, nor do I believe you do. ”

Missing the point yet again. You were whining that I would dare question Dr Chad when I don’t have a degree. I think we both agree that we don’t need to have a medical degree to discuss health care, just as I don’t demand that Chad have experience in the corporate world to comment on that.

“I do have a VERY GOOD understanding of insurance, therefore, we could debate your resistance to the public option.”

My resistence to the public option is tepid. Combining the outright lies coming from both sides with the utter guessworks as to the outcome of such a policy, I don’t really know what the result would be.

I am more interested in exposing partisan hack pundits and their followers. They are the real cancer in the system. If it wasn’t for people like chad calling people “whores” or his peers on the right, we could have a civil and rational debate that might actually result in an informed decision.

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Kamchak –

Nice to see you, groupie. Your obsession with me is flattering, but creepy.

Ever going to respond to anything with more than an empty one-sentence zinger? Doubt it.

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mike,

you get precisely what you have earned from bloggers here.

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TnGelding –

“You’re right, it goes both ways. I hope I don’t fall into that category.”

I hear you. I have the same concerns about myself sometimes, but the fact that you even recognize that the behavior is the same across the political spectrum is the biggest indicator. Not being to make that distinction is the epitome of mindless partisanship.

“I try to keep an open mind. We’ve been bickering over the same issues for decades until they’ve reached critical mass. Something has to be done on health care, entitlements, immigration, transportation, energy, deficits and debt, government waste, fraud and abuse, to name a few.”

I totally agree and I would love to see Obama accomplish achievements in these areas, even if I don’t agree with every policy. I think most Americans agree. Unfortunately, folks like Jay and Glen Beck whip up the stupidest and loudest people and they end up driving the debate. Americans need to drown out these partisan fools from both sides. They are the ones standing in the way of health care reform.

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Taxpayer –

“you get precisely what you have earned from bloggers here.”

What? Awed reverence? Obsession? Fear to engage with anything beyond empty zingers because I have embarrassed you in past arguments? (in your case, your claim that a $700 billion dollar debt could be paid in over 20 years at only 35 billion a year.)

Be specific.

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@Mike

I only responded to a greater point by using caps.
I do not have to respond to schoolyard antics to make my point. Have always been taught that if you have to resort to name-calling and profanity, you do not have an argument to present.

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mike must have another hangover. I see the few caps that were used for emphasis by Jackie are exciting his optic nerves. Tell us all about the health care benefits given to the employess at your ‘Fortume 500 Company’, mike. I’m curious why you are now left with a high deductible insurance policy if you put in all those years with a major company, as an executive, no less. For example, even if you retired from a major company, you would still be given access to group coverage. Did you get fired, mike. Or just plain layed off. And, they didn’t even give you any golden parachute award even though you were an executive. There nerve, eh mike. Read your contract next time. hehehe

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Jackie –

“If you stop to look at the larger picture, health is rationed by the size of one’s bank account.”

Yep, and so is everything in life. It is a matter of priorities.

“ypically, a family of four has a monthly health care premium of roughly $1,800. With that monthly outlay….”

I agree insurance is expensive. I pay for a family of four. It is expensive and getting more expensive because expensive new medical technologies are constantly invented and people are living longer.

The idea that we can just create a new policy that will make these costs go away is absurd, and this proposed bill does little to focus on cost reduction, which in my view, should be the priority.

“Secondly, a major part of the insurance experience is the adjuster. Their job is to pay you as little as they can even though your contract says they are obligated to pay a specific amount for a specific contingency.”

Right, because unlike our government, they actually have to pay their bills.

This country will never have the money to provide every person every procedure that will keep them alive. It would be wonderful if we did, but we don’t. Both sides need to acknowledge that. It should not be a partisan talking point.

What we are calling “rationing” is going to be a part of the process, no matter what we do. The term itself is misleading. It is not rationing, it is not making commitments to buy whatever procedures may help, no matter how little it helps and how much it costs.

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Jackie –

“I do not have to respond to schoolyard antics to make my point. Have always been taught that if you have to resort to name-calling and profanity, you do not have an argument to present.”

Yet, you praised Public Option’s posts, loaded with terms like “whores” and “Repubozos”.

How do you reconcile the two statements?

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Jackie –

I agree that relying on name calling is the sign of having nothing to say.

Do you see how the folks on your side are behaving? Just scroll through the silly things that these people scream at me. What do you think of their rhetoric?

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@Mike

That foolishness of EXTRAPOLATION, CONFLATION and OBFUSCATION does nothing for me. You are trying to make someone prove a negative based upon the portion of the argument YOU choose to debate. DOES NOT WORK!

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Taxpayer

Brother, can you spare a jar of Grey Poupon?

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@Thomas

It is rationing by the size of her pocketbook. She had no insurance, therefore, she delayed her visit to a medical professional because she did not have the money to pay.

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Jackie –

“That foolishness of EXTRAPOLATION, CONFLATION and OBFUSCATION does nothing for me. You are trying to make someone prove a negative based upon the portion of the argument YOU choose to debate. DOES NOT WORK!”

Who am I trying to get to prove a negative?

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Again, I feel horrible for this young lady.

But can anyone explain to me how, if she recieved medical help as soon as she asked for it, is this anyone elses fault but hers. I say hers because she failed to act upon what must have been obvious symptoms.

She would have been billed for any treatment. Also as long as a payment plan is set up with the hospital the hospital bills would not have went onto her credit report. She could have paid $1 a week until the bill was paid off.

So again I ask how is this the system or insurance companies fault. This was a poor decision by this young lady. Who is to say that if she had insurance she would have been willing to pay the co-pay.

She was never refused care or had her care rationed.

She ratione her own care.

Someone please show me any different.

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@Mike

Per your 10:00 post.

The insurance companies are not inherently evil, they are in business to make money. I think you will agree the scorecard for business is the bottom line.

The USA and New Zeland are the only two countries in the Western world that allow health care to be a for-profit business.

Denial of coverage is documented. Recent event in LA where hospital was convicted of “dumping.” Poor people that could not pay were told they were being taken to another facility, then driven away and removed from the vehicle at some remote location in the city.

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Do you guys realize that you have been sitting at your computers all day long growling over the “bone” that Bookman threw out for you? HE will use anything that will stir controversy and his aim is to make conservatives look like heartless monsters.

Poor little Kimberly Young! She is being used here as a sob story for politics with the idea projected that hard hearted USA barely supports the health of its citizens.

What an obviously contemptous suggestion. Bookman not only uses the death of Kimberly Young as a political billboard, he berates his own country.. Then his “puppy dogs” here follow right behind him barking “The USA doesn’t have good health care.”:

Get out of that chair and do some pushups, you sluggards. It might make your heads work better. Dust off the spider webs and get out of here. Nothing new has been said since early this morning. You won’t miss a thing.

.

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Jackie, I’m calling BS.

I have been without insurance before as she has. But I went to the doctor and even had my gal bladder remved through surgery. Didn’t have a spec of insurance. But I was informed an knew my options. Had to work 2 jobs after that but it is paid off now. Even found out that a long as I made any payment then the surgery would not go against my credit.

BTW, she thought she could not pay when in reality she would have been billed to pay for any treatment given to her. Did you also know that even if she never paid a dime on her bill there would be nothing that would happen to her worse than her credit being lowered.

Seems to me that you are just using this poor young woman’s story to guilt people into feeling like you do.

She was ignorant and did not know what her options were.

Either her fault or those who have been giving her bad information. I wonder who would have allowed her to think she had no option other than having to pay for evrything right then?

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Why should anyone blindly believe that Public Option is an MD? In all of his diatribes, he has never proven that he is. He is a fraud.

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Jackie, so they charge more!

Again how did that ration her care?

She must have thought money was more important than her life.

She had options and failed to use those options.

Maybe less trips overseas to take care of others. Should have saved some money for herself.

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@thomas

I am not using anyone to further my cause, just stating what is true.
By the way, call your hospital and determine if what I said is true. There is not attempt to you make or anyone feel guilty about anything because you will do what you think is best for you as will I.

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Activity –

“Why should anyone blindly believe that Public Option is an MD?”

Nobody does. Don’t worry.

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Anyone else get the idea that maybe tiPublic Option’s Doing Swell has a LOT of free time on their hands and is REALLY hoping for this cheapo public option … Is that you, Bill Campbell?

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Jackie -

“The USA and New Zeland are the only two countries in the Western world that allow health care to be a for-profit business.”

That stat means nothing to me. A policy works or it doesn’t. I don’t care what other countries adopt it.

“Denial of coverage is documented. Recent event in LA where hospital was convicted of “dumping.” Poor people that could not pay were told they were being taken to another facility, then driven away and removed from the vehicle at some remote location in the city.”

Please provide a link so that I can see what you are talking about. I need some context to know what, if anything, this means.

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@thomas

If you have ever had a cold or other malady, you have self-diagnosed and self-medicated, like all of us have. This put you and all of us who have done the same in the same position this young woman was in.

She sought medical treatment and was flown to a hospital in Cincinnatti, but it was too late for viral pneumonia.

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Anyone else get the idea that maybe RollerGirl is tUeSdAy VaNdY GiRl?

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PODS cares so much to tell us that 1) he/she is an MD 2) he/she is the only qualified person to speak on this matter 3) no one is smarter than he/she. Did I mention that he/she thinks that he is the most intelligent person among his peers?

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Hell no – it had nothing to do with rationing.

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It is amazing to me that the esteemed Dr. Chad whines that it is too much for him to read my posts, yet I am able to read and destroy his much longer posts in a few seconds?

I mean I am a dumb old evil conservative. Surely this lettered academic can read faster than me.

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@Mike

Again, this attempt to get me to argue a negative and argue the point the you choose to define is a non-starter.

I have never said that I applauded Public Option, just pointed out that I agree with the position and facts posted.

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Jackie –

OK, you are talking about the chronically homeless. This is different case and has much more to do with housing the indigent than it does health care.

I think we can all agree that these folks are among the most helpless and deserve special attention. Healthcare reform should provide health care to the mentally disabled who have no connection to society.

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Jackie,
I can only assume that you thought I would not look at the link. That had nothing at all, not even close to do with this subject matter of rationing care based on ability to pay. Those homeless were taken in with the knowledge they were homeless. The hospital should be ashamed.

Why would you try a bait and switch like that?

Kinda dishonorable or uneducated and you do not seem dumb.

Manipulative, maybe but not dumb.

Still no answer, how was she actually denied/rationed any care?
If she wanted it she would have been provided. She was using hr free will to make a choice.

Do you think the gov’t needs to step in and prevent us from our own bad decisions now?

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@mike

I am talking about ANY patient in ANY hospital in ANY state, county, city.

There was a case, I believe, at Grady where the patient sat in the waiting room for the ER and died even after she complained to the medical staff. If I remember correctly, this woman sat in the ER for more than 8 hours.

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@thomas

We do not have to get into the uneducated and dumb argument as your post clearly show where you are coming from.

Looking at the link I provided gives only a small insight as to a nationwide problem. I hope you are not inferring that the mentally ill are not ill and the homeless are not deserving?

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Jackie,

No i have waited to go have things looked at. Usually because I am too busy at the time and my selfish need to get things done has prevented me from being healthy more than once.

Oly difference is I never tried to make an argument for Public Option or that my care was rationed.

See I rationed my own care in every single one of the cases you ask about.

As did she.

Please I am begging you to show me 1 single person or group who rationed her care.
And also please show how that person or group did more to ration her care than she herself rationed her care?

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@Mike

Nowhere have you seen me argue just for the homeless. I am basing my argument on the fact that all of us, including you, need relief from this inane health care policy.

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@ Thomas–

I can’t and won’t do this forever and I have lost patience with Mike’s crazy rambling, but I will comment on your departure from reality as we know it in medicine.

She didn’t necessarily and most probably fail to act on what would have been obvious symptoms. I’ve just explained what can happen. I’ve taken care of thousands of these–how ’bout you Thomas.

Kid gets sick but her symptoms aren’t obvious as anything but mild flu. She doesn’t have money and thinks it’ll get better on its own. I don’t know what her symptom time line is, and I’m in a helluva lot better position to size it up than you are Thomas. It’s what I do for years.

I explained. She tells her friends she doesn’t feel good but doesn’t have the money. Her symptoms for whatever she had could have run the gamut early on. One paper says one week before she went to hospital; another says two. Depending on what she had the incubation period and early on course could have been near asymptomatic or mild.

She puts off going; she doesn’t have a regular doc and not a lot of resources. If mom and dad were asked and knew she was sick, they would have come to her.
They would have gotten her help.

Then depending on WHAT SHE HAD, a bacterial pneumonia, H1N1, or any other kind of pneumonia–viral, (35% of pneumonias are S. Pneumonia) and although most get well when promptly treated (I’d bet Augmentin is the most common launch or a macrolide like Zmax if they’re sicker) if it gets blood bourne 20% of them die. She could have had mycoplasma pneumonia, and I could construct a long list. I wish I had a nickle for every article I read on pneumonia over the last 20 years. Some viral pneumonias have subtle symptoms until they get worse; it’s that simple.

So bottom line her symptoms didn’t have to be “obvious and clear cut” and different people handle them differently any way. She probably did not know she had a serious illness early on, and early on whatever she had may not have been serious at that point. Prompt treatment would have proably gotten her well.

She’s trying to figure out how to get help, and for all you know she’s not that symptomatic and bang suddenly sepsis sets in and she’s in trouble. It happens all the frigging time to patients who present at teaching hospitals like Grady. Every night, every day, and in every frigging ER having covered them for 6 years of residency and another 8 after that.

You see it the most in people who are poor, without resources and without insurance. Hence we have 5 bills going after 8 years of the schmuck who wanted people just to go to the ER whose daddy gave him all his money.

And I don’t know what planet you’re on, but a lot of hospitals won’t bill and a dollar a week is pure bs. Try going to a bunch of them and saying you have no money–see what happens when you aren’t emergent.

I’ve been on call in this city and had parents taking a kid with a very compelling case for an acute appendix to a number of hospitals who turned the kid away. A couple of the hospitals were in Cobb county, one in Dekalb, and two in Fulton. It happens all the time. I got him operated by calling a doctor I knew,–the kid had McBurney’s point migration and the CBC was off the wall with a heavy left shift; and I’ve gotten people operated by calling a doctor whose attitude was to fix the patient and worry later.

It was the system’s fault because a kid didn’t know she was very sick until it was too late and the time she put off treatment because she couldn’t afford it and hospitals and clinics won’t bill strangers (that’s the default position).

I’m sure she would tell you and her friends would that she wasn’t that sick symptomatic wise until bang she got sick fast.

You and the insipidly ignorant nudnick Mike make me remember why there are admissions standards in medical schools that you couldn’t meet.

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@thomas

What?

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@PODS is not an MD

Sounds like you are making a case for health care rationing.

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@thomas

Your first statement invalidates your argument.
How did the hospital know the patient was homeless?
Since I am not trying to make you believe that the public option is in all our best interest, present information that is verifiable gives one the opportunity to comprehend, digest and decide what they need for their life.

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@thomas

Any example used is for the purpose of provoking discussion relative to the topic. What has other countries to do with what is an absolute conundrum in the USA?

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Jackie,

Just check out some of these stories. Especially the one about the man who was given a date of surgery for a double by-pass I believe. Funny thing is that he was given a surgery date a full year after he had DIED from….. wait for it……. a heart attack.

Wow they knew for over a year he needed a surgery, then waited til he died. Talk about your rationing.

http://www.riograndefoundation.org/new/articles/?EC=ReadArticle&ArticleID=277

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PODS is not an MD

September 27th, 2009
10:36 pm
Jackie – that’s life. Sometimes the deck is stacked against you. Not EVERYONE can be saved. There will be many that die. We are not meant to live forever. Our days our numbered from the day we are born. Some go quicker than others… that’s life.

Sounds more like death panel talk and rationing and death that you speak of. A follower of the words of Isakson, no doubt. He proposed the original death panel into the healthcare legislation, dontcha know. Of course, it was not an original thought since the insurance companies had been doing it all along — deciding who lives and who dies.

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The reason other countries have anything to do with the argument is because 1 of the main reason for reform I have heard is the amount of uninsured in our country as oppossed to others. And because I have heard many argument that we are behind other countries in medicine.

BTW, if not our country’s HC system, and you don’t want to discuss other countries systems, would you mind telling us exactly what type of system you think will be put in place?

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Let you in on a little nugget, you educated idiot. The more you beg us all to believe that you’re an MD, the more we call you a fool. Did mommy not give you enough hugs and smooches as a child?

I think it is you that is calling someone the fool. Try to accept credit for your work there and don’t try to pawn it off on others.

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Jackie, 10:10

Now bark. The top dog is already pushing all of us over the cliff that is $7 trillion deep. SEVEN TRILLION! Soooo.. what’s a few trillion MORE $$$ for healthcare ?. Keep pushing for those trillion $$$, Jackie. That’s a good liberal. You can do it!!!!

G’nite.

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Jackie

September 27th, 2009
10:48 pm
@thomas

You make my point.
Rationing is done all the time. Have you ever seen or heard of someone who needed an organ transplant that died? Is that not rationing?

It’s called, LACK OF ORGANS.

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@Dusty

As is typical of you, have nothing to back up your claim.

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PODS insistence that he is an MD, reminds me of a person that constantly has to use the phrase, “Trust me”. When they say it once… that’s fine. When they say it multiples times… the trust is long gone.

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How is a lack of organs, rationing? Should we just go in and grab that extra kidney out of everyone – no questions asked? Shoot, you don’t need both of them. You can live with just one. Let’s just take it out. Hey! You’ve got two eyes, you only need one to see. Let me have that extra one, because someone else needs it more for you. Don’t be such a hoarder with your extra organs!

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PODS is not an MD

The time of your death is out of your hands.

You have the freedom to believe whatever you want. As do we all.

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In fact that’s one reason I am so in favor of a public option – so that I don’t have to argue with the ninnies behind the counter at the doctor’s office about whether or not I have insurance.

Cherokee, good point. I wonder how many doctors out there treat first and ask for method of payment later or, better yet, just say something like “pay me when you can, what you can”. Right. Even the emergency rooms ask for insurance first. They don’t take you straight in because you look like you are about to die.

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Cherokee

September 27th, 2009
11:01 pm

I agree to a certain extent. There are always going to be someone that won’t take you, but on the flip, there is always going to be someone that will. When I had no insurance, I was treated and had a payment plan later. When our son was born, the bill after insurance was fairly significant and we planned on it before hand. We had saved a little, so we used those funds and then had a payment plan for the rest. We were given that option with no grief and that was just 3 years ago at North Fulton Hospital.

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Seriously, I’m glad that worked for you PODS. As Taxpayer says, there probably are docs who will treat first and worry about the money later. I just don’t think it’s wise to base policy on that.

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Bull$hit POD.

As you have shown us all – you don’t know everything.

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Evangelicalism has made us what we are today

Sadly, that is too true. And, I’ll never get that image of folks like the Bakkers out of my mind. ewwwww.

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Georgia is a state with the poorest education and the biggest proliferation of hick white trash, and we really get them in here.

Look in the mirror.

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I didn’t get my education here and I’m proud of that.

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Let’s for giggles assume that RW may not be competent at anyce.thing except reaching in and flinging his own fecal material in a hybrid of arrogance and ignorance.

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I forget more in a nanosecond than you’ve learned in years hick.

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but given the huge delay in every inurance claim–I don’t take Medicaid and see few medicare,

I guess you’re going to be a cash poor “MD” with a government run system.

I hope you’ve paid back all of your student loans.

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The public option would be totally different

Oh Boy! This keeps getting this better.

You know, correspondence courses, no matter how many you took don’t make you a DOCTOR.

Isn’t it about time for your shift? Go clean out some bedpans.

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Countdown to reconciliation day, October 15. If that is what it take. That’s what the Republicans did under Bush to get their tax cuts, the cuts that end next year because someone has to pay for them. Welcome to reality, Republicans.

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Enter your comments here–

Let’s for giggles assume that RW may not be competent at anyce.thing

Like typing? Put down the crack pipe Chadly, Nurse Rached may be calling you to the “ER” any second.

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The typing will be remedied by a blue tooth keyboard not in stores yet. My typing is fine but I have movie stuff going on on the other boxes with the user friendly keyboards and this baby is fast. Apprarently you’re not that heavy in the IT sector, if you don’t understand that some notebook have problematic keyboards.

Besides sling fecal material and slurs on other peoples’ professions that you’d never do to the face of a stranger, what the hell do you do RW?

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Could ya PODS Not? So far I haven’t seen any vocabulary that puts you above sixth grade level.

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When you ready to take me on medical or legal issue RW? Nothing’s stopping you from using that keyboard. Take the plunge.

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Oh ma GOD! Ma darn kayboard is done messed up on ma! It wuz all ma kayboards falt.

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Enter your comments here–

finch used to blame all the woes of the world on his keyboard too. Surely to God finch hasn’t gone so far off the deep end that he quit impersonating a journalist and took up “doctoring”

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Maybe you should hook up with “finch” then. Maybe you can swap drugs. Rush still does ‘em. That’s another source for you.

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You weren’t too keen on taking me on with a medical or legal issue were you RW? So you’re great at saying someone’s a fake as long as that’s all that’s required of you, because they disagree with you politically. but not much when it comes to putting up or shutting up.
‘
People who disagree with you potlitically fake their profession is that it? But limited to saying their fake, you don’t have the b_lls to actually call them on it by trying to prove it. I opened up the fields of law and medicine. Should be damn easy for a sophisticate like you. You let me know when you think you have the nerve. This I hallucinate that someone has had “x” life experience and training wouldn’t fly with many people. You seem to have yourself convinced so why not show everyone how fast you can prove ole Chad is a fake doctor. Go for it. Make our day.

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PODS comment “Georgia is a state with the poorest education and the biggest proliferation of hick white trash, and we really get them in here.”

My response: Compare the SAT scores of Forsyth and cherokee counties(white hicks like me) with those of the city of Atlanta and clayton county (non-white majority) and get back to me

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Go Steelers! Hi Honu!

~~~~~

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals, Fearful that they’re losing ground on immigration and health care, a group of House Democrats is pushing back and arguing that any health care bill should extend to all legal immigrants and allow illegal immigrants some access.-Washington Times

We’ll call it the “world option.”

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The leisure class is in great measure sheltered from the stress of those economic exigencies which prevail in any modern, highly organized industrial community.… and as a consequence of this privileged position we should expect to find it one of the least responsive of the classes of society to the demands which the situation makes for a further growth of institutions and a readjustment to an altered industrial situation.… [B]y precept and prescriptive example, [the leisure class] makes for the perpetuation of the existing maladjustment of institution, and even favors a reversion to a somewhat more archaic scheme of life.

There could not be a better explanation of why, at a time when China is currently planning to build 132 nuclear reactors in the next 20 years, America is absorbed in the fantasy that we can run an industrial nation on windmills and solar collectors.-AmSpec

Back to the caves with us.

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Solar enery — the gift that keeps on giving. And, it’s there all day long. It’s even available, free of charge, to anyone. It’s even tax-free and it will not run out for as long as we shall live on this planet. We could not have a better source of energy even if it had come from a god.

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Tax –

I agree – I just wish that engineers would get a wiggle in it an find a better way of converting it to electricity …

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Jay,

I just read of a local teenager who died over the weekend. Seems he was driving drunk at a high rate of speed, ran off the road and hit a tree, and was ejected from the car because he wasn’t wearing a seat belt. I guess Obama has a “program” he will soon sponsor that will prevent something like that from ever happening again, right?

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Say what?? Doesn’t Georgia still allow you to drive a pickup on the public roads without a seatbelt.

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This young lady’s death is tragic, but it was NOT caused by insensitive people who oppose socialized healthcare. Very sad that Jay wants to use this person is his argument.

One could readily argue that such a mindset is developed in a society over time. A Pavlovian response due to years of conditioning. In other countries, when people get sick, they just go to the doctor. They don’t ask themselves first whether their insurance will cover the visit, for example.

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Best thing in the article linked by Jay:

User comments are not being accepted on this article.

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I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator You Whine

September 28th, 2009
6:35 am

…and nuclear reactors:

“In the past two years, we have received applications to build and operate 28 new nuclear power plants in the U.S.,” NRC spokesman Scott Burnell says. The agency has recently received several letters of intent, according to Burnell, indicating that in the next two to three years, utility companies will be seeking permission to build additional nuclear power plants.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/new-nuclear-renaissance.php

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you seem to forget 2 things: driving while intoxicated is illegal and carries heavy fines, penalties on your license and possible jail time if it’s a repeated offense.

also item 3–intelligent people are not distracted by cheap, shiny baubles.

USinUK, I’ll just say this about HCR for now: I understand that some conservatives take an intellectually honest position in opposition to the heavy hand of government control. They are genuinely worried about the downside. Given our high unemployment and an economy that is barely chugging along I can understand their caution.

Thing is, their side set the screwup bar pretty high with Iraq. So I have to temper their concerns with the still-fresh memory of “I doubt six months” and the notion that oil revenues were going to more than cover the costs of invasion.

So you’ll excuse me if I don’t take their objections all that seriously.

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TnG –

“Just think how much energy could be saved if everyone hung their clothes out to dry like we do? ”

THANKS for that! I totally forgot that I do that every week on laundry day (well, laundry weekend) … I can’t remember who was asking me on Fri what I do to reduce my carbon footprint, that’s one of the biggest

(and, yes, my hair air-dries, as well … which is why I love short hair)

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TnGelding

Just think how much energy could be saved if everyone hung their clothes out to dry like we do? Or dried their hair with a towel like we do?

We do those things too! We turn off the lights in the house when we are not using them and most of the lights are not needed at all during the day because I designed the house to take advantage of available sunlight while using high efficiency windows to minimize heat transfer. I worked with the power coop during the construction to make sure that everything met or exceeded their requirements for their energy star rating and I even got a cash rebate check from them and a lower charge per kwh. We actually have more heated space now than in our last home but use less power.

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like you need to ask my pardon for that??? criminey, they lost me at death panels …

Yeah, I know, and you know I know you know.

I’m having one of those “why don’t the good rational people here make a concerted effort to abandon the crazies and work instead to effect actual change by harassing their representatives” moments. I’m sure it’ll pass.

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Taxpayer, you said “One could readily argue that such a mindset is developed in a society over time. A Pavlovian response due to years of conditioning. In other countries, when people get sick, they just go to the doctor. They don’t ask themselves first whether their insurance will cover the visit, for example”

Yes, one could argue ANYTHING. Hopefully you’ve crafted your skill while looking at yourself in a mirror.

People just go to the doctor? Happens here as well. That’s why Grady got in such deep financial trouble. It was reported last year that people would show up to the Grady emergency room with something like a sore throat (the common cold) or an ache in their elbow. Many of these people were not insured and could not pay their bill, however, they were afforded the care that was needed.

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Great article on govt run healthcare:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-07-05-europe-health_N.htm

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Pat –

“a girl who wasted her short life getting an education in trying to make the world a better place, instead of useful business skills, and was too stupid to go to the ER to get some mythical “free” care died – and evil democrats are “using” her death for political purposes? Why not go further? It’s probably likely, in the diseased minds of the right, that she deliberately got sick and died to be a martyr for health care, isn’t it? After all, she was just some dumb “pinko” committed to “truth and justice” – all that commie stuff. No great loss, right?”

What nonsense. Nobody implied anything of the sort.

Your lying is pathetic.

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[...] by Jay Bookman of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Sep­tember 27, 2009 [...]

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[...] [3] http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/09/27/good-thing-we-dont-ration-health-care-in-the-usa/?c... [...]

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